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After searching around about the Imageon coprocessor on the TyTN, I decided to experiment a little. If the TyTN can do .mp4 and .m4a files in hardware, I converted some audio files over to .m4a and see if there was any performance improvement (in Windows Media Player). And there definitely was! General device usage was very quick while playing; I couldn't even notice a difference with or without playing. So, I converted all my music over to .m4a's.
However, the story doesn't end here. My testing was using just the onboard speaker. When I got on the train for my commute to work, I started up my A2DP headset to listen to some tunes. Funny thing, though. They started playing through the onboard speaker! I could hear device sounds through the bluetooth, and if I played an mp3 or a wma, I could hear it through the headset too. But no go on the .m4a/.mp4 over A2DP. No matter what I did, it wouldn't play through anything but the onboard speaker (or wired headset, of course).
Thinking about this, it actually makes sense. If the playback is hardware accelerated, it's probably not designed to go through an A2DP process, which is complete software. The Imageon chip probably passes decoded sound and video directly to the hardware speaker, without going through a software sublayer. I imagine this is by design, as it keeps performance pretty high. MP3's and WMA's are decoded in software without the imageon, so it processes like any other windows sound, and can go through A2DP.
So, there's a bit of a tradeoff here. Do I give up A2DP and all the AVRCP goodness I've come to love at the cost of performance, or do I live with the performance hit of WMAs? Admittedly, audio was ok before, but i've never been happy with the video performance of the TyTN with WMVs. With MP4s, though, it works great. Hmm...decisions, decisions.
Oh, and I've tried TCPMP too. It plays through A2DP, but with the same slowdown. I suspect this is because it doesn't know how to use the Imageon correctly, and is decoding in software too.
cjohnson6965 said:
After searching around about the Imageon coprocessor on the TyTN, I decided to experiment a little. If the TyTN can do .mp4 and .m4a files in hardware, I converted some audio files over to .m4a and see if there was any performance improvement (in Windows Media Player). And there definitely was! General device usage was very quick while playing; I couldn't even notice a difference with or without playing. So, I converted all my music over to .m4a's.
However, the story doesn't end here. My testing was using just the onboard speaker. When I got on the train for my commute to work, I started up my A2DP headset to listen to some tunes. Funny thing, though. They started playing through the onboard speaker! I could hear device sounds through the bluetooth, and if I played an mp3 or a wma, I could hear it through the headset too. But no go on the .m4a/.mp4 over A2DP. No matter what I did, it wouldn't play through anything but the onboard speaker (or wired headset, of course).
Thinking about this, it actually makes sense. If the playback is hardware accelerated, it's probably not designed to go through an A2DP process, which is complete software. The Imageon chip probably passes decoded sound and video directly to the hardware speaker, without going through a software sublayer. I imagine this is by design, as it keeps performance pretty high. MP3's and WMA's are decoded in software without the imageon, so it processes like any other windows sound, and can go through A2DP.
So, there's a bit of a tradeoff here. Do I give up A2DP and all the AVRCP goodness I've come to love at the cost of performance, or do I live with the performance hit of WMAs? Admittedly, audio was ok before, but i've never been happy with the video performance of the TyTN with WMVs. With MP4s, though, it works great. Hmm...decisions, decisions.
Oh, and I've tried TCPMP too. It plays through A2DP, but with the same slowdown. I suspect this is because it doesn't know how to use the Imageon correctly, and is decoding in software too.
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Very interesting post and findings. You may find the upcoming Coreplayer 1.0 from the devlopers of TCPMP and Betaplayer of interset to you, as they will be processing everything through software only and claim that they will be releasing the best multi- platform media player ever released: WM, Symbian, Palm etc, XP/Vista Desktop player and Mac Osx. I think you get my meaning. But I for one am looking forward to this as the Imageon 2282 Co-processor is limited in support for various fileformats anyway, and now with your findings, it appears the benefits of it hardware accelerated media cannot be enjoyed over A2DP...man this sucks!!
Anyway, check out this link & hopefully everything will look much brighter in the near future:
http://www.corecodec.com/forum/index.php?topic=3193.50
http://www.aximsite.com/boards/showthread.php?t=139390
Interesting app...I'll definitely be looking forward to it. In the meantime, I found kind of a half-assed solution that works ok for me. I use the wired headset (spliced so I can use real headphones, of course) and I'm using my Itech clip. I pair it up with the Tytn, and AVRCP works within windows media player! So, I get the hardware benefit of the Imageon, and the AVRCP to pause, go forward and backward. Volume even works too! Certainly not the absolute optimum, but it was never the wires that bothered me so much. Works great for me!
Glad u found a workaround. Still, bloody ridiculous that we have to physically adapt things on what is supposed to be cutting edge technology!!
mackaby007 said:
Glad u found a workaround. Still, bloody ridiculous that we have to physically adapt things on what is supposed to be cutting edge technology!!
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BTW, with an alternate player (if you only need audio), you can have full AVRCP support without cables. (TCPMP isn't compatible with WM5 it seems; some other players are).
I've written a complete article on this at http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=279459 ; it contains a LOT of never-before-published tips and tricks, AVRCP -wise.
Well, doesn't this thread just solve the "Why does WMP play some music out the speaker" question! Thanks, this was very aggravating to me. Most of my music is mp4a (AAC) encoded so I thought that it was a global bug (WMP won't stream music over A2DP). Imagine my surprise when I fired up an mp3 and the damn thing worked
Monday, this might all be moot, however, if CorePlayer actually can do AVRCP. I'm hoping this will be the case since Picard and I exchanged emails on AVRCP back in June. I pointed him to the mortplayer thread and hopefully he did some successful lurking there...
In a way though, CorePlayer will be a bit of a disappointment because their out-of-the-gate solution to the ATI Imageon dhilema will be "no Imageon support". ATI based acceleration is quite impressive when it actually works.
you think ati would bother with coding a player for support, they have the source code after all ,kinda like macromedia with their flash player for ppc, I don't get why they don't benefit from making a player and selling it, instead we're left with 3'rd party players from under developed companies.
Playing with the hardware acceleration has got me thinking, and I'm going to try some experimenting. As you know, mp4 is just a container format, and can house different video/audio codecs. I'm curious as to what exactly has been implemented. LE-AAC seems supported, but I'm going to try to convert some to HE-AAC and see if that has an effect on processor. With video, mpeg4 is probably supported, but what about h.264? I use my TyTN as kind of a PMP, so I'd like to get the best quality I can get out of it.
I'll start some experimenting tonight (watching CPU load on the TyTN) and post my results here!
tcpmp works fine on my universal so is compatable with wm05
Ok, Mpeg4 is definitely hardware accelerated, and h.264 is flat out not supported. A h.264 file encoded as an mp4 wouldn't play in windows media player. The .mp4 files take a while to load up (15-20sec or so), but once they do I could play at full speed, and jump around to any poing within the video with no slowdown. I encoded up to 768k video/128k audio. The higher bitrate I used, the longer it took to load up, but once they were loaded they played flawlessly.
AAC is a little different. If you've read up on types of AAC encoding, there's LE-AAC and HE-AAC. HE is the later standard, and gets better compression at similar bitrates. It's also backward compatible, so LE-AAC players can still play HE-AAC players, but it can't interpret the higher efficiency algorithm and quality is reduced. I can say with some confidence that the player only supports LE-AAC. Both types of files played, but the quality of HE-AAC files (both encoded at the same bitrate) was definitely reduced.
Now, with a proper version of Coreplayer that supports the Imageon, some interesting possibilities open up. The imageon chip does support h.264, and HE-AAC isn't much different either. Once we get version 1.1, or whatever, then we should be able to get the holy grail of Imageon acceleration in most codecs, plus the benefit of bluetooth A2DP streaming. I believe this will make the device much more usable during A2DP, as the only thing the CPU will have to do is A2DP; audio decoding will be left to the Imageon. I hope they can get this to work soon!
I hope I can get the video to forward/rewind/ fullscreen /back without going haywire soon
Hi, I have been looking for a discussions on HE-AAC in this forum for months and finally found yours! To bad though, it is on the Tytn, I am using the good old wizard and HE-AAC is playing well via TCPMP(with the AAC plugin), so well that I converted all my CDs to HE-AAC(in m4a containers).
Just some questions for you:
1) When playing in WMP, are the songs(in LE-AAC) playing in stereo? From what I know and experience, the songs only play in mono in the wizard... So, has the hardware acceleration in the Tytn enable playing in stereo? Cool!!
2) I encode my songs at 16kbps(HE-AAC) though and they are great but all the effort seems to be wasted as I cannot really use A2DP on the wizard as the codecs that I use(be it mp3 or HE-AAC) plays with distortion. The only solution I have now is to use MSI Blueplayer which gives superb quality via bluetooth BUT only MP3s, which I have "happily" dumped a few months ago... sigh...
BTW, is the bta2dp.dll on the Tytn the same files as the used for the Tornado hack?
I got my vibrant and it plays most videos fine. But when I put mkvs on, the sound doesn't work. The video is fine but there is no sound. Anyone else experiencing this problem?
I was having the same issues with my 720p .mp4 files, using AAC audio (mpeg AAC audio @ 4800Hz). Even when resizing them for the Vibrant, and demuxing the audio, the sound is slowed by about 120% and sounds like demons in hell, eating saltine crackers.
Yea my problems are with aac audio as well. Im thinking of getting it exchanged. But if its a vibrant problem then...
I have a few .mkv files that play just fine on my Vibrant.
This is what VLC says about the audio
Codec:mp4a
Stereo
AAC Extension:SBR
BlackHoleDroid said:
Yea my problems are with aac audio as well. Im thinking of getting it exchanged. But if its a vibrant problem then...
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Exchanged? LOL
It's the video player. It supports a myriad of formats, but it's not perfect. It's a little wonky too with h.264 video with odd "b" frame rates, as well as AAC audio at non-standard bitrates. With as much video being encoded and containered in MKV, given my experience with the format, it's quite miraculous that it plays as much as it does. This is as much a problem of how people are free to container MKV in whatever way they choose, as it is a problem with Samsung's built in player.
I have a few terabytes worth of video on my media server and lan here, and it's played most of what I've thrown at it so far. What little it hasn't played correctly Rockplayer ARM7 has been able to play.
This just on a select group of my videos, but a few of them don't have audio working in the stock video player and Act I. The video goes, but not the audio.
In Rockstar Player, the suspect videos played just fine.
Any reason why this might have happened and how to fix it?
my guess is that the suspect videos are coded in 5.1 or 6.1 surround. The stock media player doesn't support this. You could demux the audio to 2 channel and they will probably play fine.
I thought about this. It shows it as 2 channels, so that can't be it.
The audio bit rate could be out of range for the internal decoder. Try checking that. Other than that, I dunno.
NO 5.1-channel surround audio in TV Shows and Movies.
I just bought a Mad Catz M.O.J.O. and now i see that i have
NO 5.1 audio, when you put on your website:
Hear thatcatchy background music or those killer sound effects loud
and clear, with support for 5.1-channel surround audio.
http://madcatz.com/mojo/en-us/
http://madcatz.com/pressroom/m-o-j-o-android-micro-console/
So you are lying?
Because i also do not see Enable Passthrough in Settings/Audio.
I hope you can help in some way, i tried XBMC 13.0 ALPHA11,
and used MX Player with the 5.1 audio codec and Archos
Video with Codects, and i only hear and see Stereo sound or
Multichannel sound on my Receiver and not 5.1 audio, tried AC3
5.1 audio and DTS 5.1 audio.
I also have a MeLE M9 and there we have with XBMC Dolby Digital, Dolby TrueHD and DTS, DTS-HD Master,
and with TvdVideo Player Dolby Digital and DTS, and that Android TV BOX cost only $110.64 and with the
Mele F10-Pro Air Mouse it cost only $134.55.
I bought the Mad Catz M.O.J.O. as a replacement for my MeLE M9, but know i can do less with the Mad Catz M.O.J.O.
then with the MeLE M9.
UPDATE: With MX Player and DTS Codec we have Dolby Digital and DTS (not Dolby TrueHD and DTS-HD Master) on our Mad Catz M.O.J.O.
So it is getting better and better, but still not perfect.
MX Player
DTX Codec
We don't support DTS or Dolby surround natively (although Dolby Digital should pass through automatically if received) but we do support straight multichannel 5.1 sound which is likely what you're seeing when you see "Multichannel" on your receiver.
Mad Catz Rich said:
We don't support DTS or Dolby surround natively (although Dolby Digital should pass through automatically if received) but
we do support straight multichannel 5.1 sound which is likely what you're seeing when you see "Multichannel" on your receiver.
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Then why put on your website that it supports 5.1-channel surround audio, because that was the main reason i bought this device, and that means Dolby
digital and DTS, you cannot get multichannel 5.1 sound without does audio codecs, just pay them for the sounds just like MeLE has don, and there device cost
only $110.
So if you get no 5.1 multichannel then i sent it back to the store, because to pay that much money and not get 5.1 sound support is absurd, and very cheap of
you guys, then just say on your website ONLY Stereo and never 5.1 sound.
Even the Playstation 3 has Dolby digital and DTS, and that one cost the same as this device.
DTS and Dolby aren't the only 5.1 audio codec options! It's often a misconception that if you're not getting DTS or Dolby then you're not getting the best - look at all the discussion about which output option to use on PS4 at the moment and you'll see many people recommending Linear PCM over Dolby or DTS because it's uncompressed. Do that and your amp will only show "multichannel", but it's still 5.1 or 7.1 (depending on the source material).
You ARE getting 5.1 sound if it says Multichannel on your amp. If you're unsure, many amps have the icons for each speaker channel which only illuminate when that channel is getting output - if you have them, see if they're getting lit.
Mad Catz Rich said:
DTS and Dolby aren't the only 5.1 audio codec options! It's often a misconception that if you're not getting DTS or Dolby then you're not getting the best - look at all the discussion about which output option to use on PS4 at the moment and you'll see many people recommending Linear PCM over Dolby or DTS because it's uncompressed. Do that and your amp will only show "multichannel", but it's still 5.1 or 7.1 (depending on the source material).
You ARE getting 5.1 sound if it says Multichannel on your amp. If you're unsure, many amps have the icons for each speaker channel which only illuminate when that channel is getting output - if you have them, see if they're getting lit.
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I see MULTICH and PCM and in movies i only get 2.0 audio.
I have used allot of sound test files and i never hear my back and center speaker and subwoofer in movies.
But i hear in the Google Play Music App 5.0, but not in movie players, so how to get 5.1 sound in movie players?
I used does 7.1 and 5.1 24bit/48kHz multichannel wav files:
http://www.jensign.com/bdp95/7dot1voiced/
But TV shows and Movies don't have Linear PCM codec, and the Playstation 3 and 4 can do the decoding true Linear PCM, but what i can see is that the Mad
Catz M.O.J.O. cannot do the decoding, so you're answer is a little bit still don't you think, but what i can read is that you cannot hear the difference
between Linear PCM and DTS(-HD Master).
But why can't you just buy a license for Dolby Digital and DTS, just like MeLE and VidON has don?
Could you try one of the files here?:
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/technology/home-theater/dolby-digital-plus-download.html
The basic surround test is a good one.
Edit: I just tried the 5.1 test file from that link of yours and it works fine - I get audio response in all channels.
Mad Catz Rich said:
Could you try one of the files here?:
http://www.dolby.com/us/en/consumer/technology/home-theater/dolby-digital-plus-download.html
The basic surround test is a good one.
Edit: I just tried the 5.1 test file from that link of yours and it works fine - I get audio response in all channels.
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That may be but i do not have it in movies, and sorry to say but people do not buy it so that they can listen to some (and i mean almost non) 5.1 music,
they buy also you device to look at movies with 5.1 sound, not only to play games on it.
Same for Xbox and Playstation, allot of people also use it to look at movies with it.
And it is ****y to put loud and clear with full support for 5.1-channel surround audio, on your website, because that is bad advertisement.
So i called the store and tomorrow they are gone take it of my hands, and get my money back.
Now i just gone use my MeLE more also for gaming, gone use my Logitech cordless rumblepad 2, and Mele F10-Pro Air Mouse.
I hope you all good luck, but if you are someone that likes to look at movies allot then stay away from this product.
Well, that's your prerogative but I have to point out for anyone reading this thread that I've proven to you that Dolby Digital works and 5.1 PCM files are also fine.
Mad Catz Rich said:
Well, that's your prerogative but I have to point out for anyone reading this thread that I've proven to you that Dolby Digital works and 5.1 PCM files are also fine.
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HAHA yes of course, but still it's bad advertisement, If you really want to be honest you put on your website that it cannot play movies and TV Shows in 5.1-channel surround audio, then you are honest.
As long as the TV shows and movies you're watching are outputting Dolby Digital or PCM then you're fine.
Mad Catz Rich said:
As long as the TV shows and movies you're watching are outputting Dolby Digital or PCM then you're fine.
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Click to collapse
Come on will you, ALL TV shows and Movies are Dolby digital and DTS and more, and Dolby digital is not 5.1 on the Mad Catz M.O.J.O. only Stereo.
Did you try the test file I linked you to on Dolby's site? I assume you did and found that you got 5.1 sound from it. I certainly did - just like I did from the PCM test file that you linked. If you did then that shows you that Dolby Digital sound is working on MOJO - the next step is for you to confirm the exact audio that's encoded on the files that you're using. If they're DTS then you will get stereo, but if they're correctly encoded in either 5.1 Dolby Digital (remember that there is also such a thing as Dolby Digital 2.0!) or PCM then you'll get 5.1 sound.
For DTS encoded files where you're only getting stereo I'll bet your amp features an option to enable Dolby Pro Logic IIx on the stereo signal which, in my experience, creates a surprisingly effective surround effect.
Mad Catz Rich said:
Did you try the test file I linked you to on Dolby's site? I assume you did and found that you got 5.1 sound from it. I certainly did - just like I did from the PCM test file that you linked. If you did then that shows you that Dolby Digital sound is working on MOJO - the next step is for you to confirm the exact audio that's encoded on the files that you're using. If they're DTS then you will get stereo, but if they're correctly encoded in either 5.1 Dolby Digital (remember that there is also such a thing as Dolby Digital 2.0!) or PCM then you'll get 5.1 sound.
For DTS encoded files where you're only getting stereo I'll bet your amp features an option to enable Dolby Pro Logic IIx on the stereo signal which, in my experience, creates a surprisingly effective surround effect.
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Strange because the MKV movie(s) i played that had AC3 5.1 (is Dolby digital) played in Stereo, and yes i have Dolby Pro Logic IIx, but DTS or DTS-HD Master sounds MUCH better then Dolby Pro Logic IIx.
But it doesn't matter, i do not have the MadCatz M.O.J.O. anymore, it went back to the store.
But why do you sell a Android TV Box that has no video players installed on it, with Codec packs so you can hear sound if you play Movies with Dolby
Digital, Dolby TrueHD and DTS, DTS-HD Master, that is very strange.
All and i mean all the Android TV Boxes out of china have them already installed, so that it works good on there Hardware.
Like the very popular MINIX NEO X5 and MINIX NEO X7, and MeLE M9 and MeLE A1000G.
And yes gaming on then is the same as on the MadCatz M.O.J.O., you buy a PS3 GPS3CT01 (Gamepad) for $14.00 at tinydeal, and can play all the
games that has Gamepad support, and more with a air mouse, that comes with the Android TV Boxes.
MOJO is a completely open system onto which you can install any media player that you like. We do make recommendations (such as linking to the apk for MXPlayer on our getting started site, linked on the homescreen of MOJO) but ultimately it's your box to do with as you wish.
Regarding gaming being the same, well that's already not true with a lot of the latest games coming out and the gap is only going to get wider with some of the apps we know are coming this year.
Update: we've been talking to the guys at XBMC and this looks like an issue with the pass-through function in XBMC on Android. We'll update once we have a solution - in the meantime the pass-through function works fine in MXPlayer.
Mad Catz Rich said:
Update: we've been talking to the guys at XBMC and this looks like an issue with the pass-through function in XBMC on Android. We'll update once we have a solution - in the meantime the pass-through function works fine in MXPlayer.
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Ok then, but can you please buy a DTS pass so that we can hear all the audio codecs, just like MeLE and VidOn has don?
Has anyone noticed any issues with audio lag? When using MAME and MD.emu I see a delay between the action on screen and the sound effects, possibly 150-200ms.
I know my TV introduces a delay when processing sound in AC-3 (I had to set my Blu-ray player to PCM audio to stop this). Is the MOJO sending audio in AC-3 by default, and if so is it possible to force the MOJO to send PCM audio via HDMI?
I'm only connected to a stereo amp, so have no need for surround audio.
So is nobody else getting any audio lag? This is really frustrating me, to the point where I can't use it for what I intended (accurate emulation) and I'm considering selling it. Shame, as it has so much promise.