Database Users

XOOM vs Ipad 2 Video playback

Ipad 2:
Video formats supported: H.264 video up to 720p, 30 frames per second, Main Profile level 3.1 with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; MPEG-4 video, up to 2.5 Mbps, 640 by 480 pixels, 30 frames per second, Simple Profile with AAC-LC audio up to 160 Kbps per channel, 48kHz, stereo audio in .m4v, .mp4, and .mov file formats; Motion JPEG (M-JPEG) up to 35 Mbps, 1280 by 720 pixels, 30 frames per second, audio in ulaw, PCM stereo audio in .avi file format
XOOM:
If you stick with H.264 Baseline Profile, you can achieve up to 1920x1080p at 30 fps at 20Mbps.
Baseline Profile means:
- No CABAC entropy coding.
- No B frames
- No 8x8 transforms (DCT)
- No Weighted Prediction
For 1280x720p at 30 fps, you can go up to 20Mbps and Motorola XOOM should still be able to handle it. More Realistically, depending on the content, you can get away with 4Mbps and up with varying degrees of quality. If you are tight on space, use 4Mbps. If you want something to look good you can use 10/12 Mbps. At some point though the higher the bitrate will only translate to decreasing amounts of quality improvement. In other words, 20Mbps will probably look as good as 15Mbps, but will just use up more space. Ultimately, there is really no one size fits all solution and it may take a little experimentation to find the settings that work best for the content you wish to view.
Additionally your device does not have a limitation on certain types of B frames (Main profile tool). So you can add in B frames and not affect performance that much. If you are using a encoding tool that uses B frames, such as QuickTime Pro, you should be able to achieve main profile encoding.
If you are using a lower resolution that 720p (such as 720x480 resolution size) in order to encode longer length video , you can get away with using more tools (High and Main profile tools). However, encoding become more complex and may require more experimentation to achieve acceptable results.
In general, if you are concern about performance, use baseline tools and possibly b-frames (with no weighted prediction). This will give you the best performance.
Also as side note, if you are upscaling from a DVD to 720p try to use the best upscaling algorithm provided and don't expect to get true 720p quality from upscaled DVD.
Looks like Xoom is a tad bit better in terms of supported Hardware video decode capabilities.
In terms of GPU - it seems that the Ipad 2 may have a bit of an edge with the new power VR 543 - though this is not official as there are no direct comparisons yet.

Well my Epic4g with the Powervr SGX540 plays back high profile 720p FLAWLESSLY. The iPad will be capable of much more than that with the newer chip. The video standards that they "support" are the ones that they use through itunes and in no way represent the highest possible encoding of video that will play back. The instant XBMC hits the iPad2, I expect at least 1080p main profile to work since 1080p high profile ALMOST works on the iPad1.

muyoso said:
Well my Epic4g with the Powervr SGX540 plays back high profile 720p FLAWLESSLY. The iPad will be capable of much more than that with the newer chip. The video standards that they "support" are the ones that they use through itunes and in no way represent the highest possible encoding of video that will play back. The instant XBMC hits the iPad2, I expect at least 1080p main profile to work since 1080p high profile ALMOST works on the iPad1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What's that you say, the iPad can output 1080p? Well sort of. The iPad can mirror its 1024x768 display in 1080p but it still won't decode 1080p H.264 videos, and we don't know what type of TV you have, but we'd bet ours does a little bit better job of scaling than the magical iPad. All that being said, the iPad 2's new form factor will increase its desirability as a couch companion --not to mention we'll buy anything with magnets -- but an HD source device, not so much.
That's from engadget
http://hd.engadget.com/2011/03/02/the-ipad-2-and-1080p-theres-nothing-to-see-here/

There are a lot of threads about xoom video limitations.
Am I the only person who just copied dvd rips from my iTunes folder straight to the xoom, and watch them with zero issues?
Maybe my handbrake settings arent top-notch, but the quality/size trade off worked fine on my old I pad, and work fine for the xoom. If I wanted full crazy HD, i'd watch from the blu-ray disk directly, on a TV that does it justice.
Am I crazy?
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

It won't do it officially. Once it its jailbroken though it will have xbmc and will have ridiculous capabilities. For example the current ipad can play 720p high profile with xbmc now.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Bauxite said:
Because the specs page for the iPad 2 lists SO many more formats.... stop trolling.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What the specs page lists for the iPad 2 is irrelevant. Here my iPad1 playing a 720p [email protected] h.264 mkv file:
http://vimeo.com/20636064
Pretty sure the iPad never had that listed on its specs page. For a comparison, here is the Notion Ink and the Xoom playing back that exact same clip:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=lXWu6m33EP0&feature=player_detailpage#t=231s

muyoso said:
What the specs page lists for the iPad 2 is irrelevant. Here my iPad1 playing a 720p [email protected] h.264 mkv file:
http://vimeo.com/20636064
Pretty sure the iPad never had that listed on its specs page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How long did it take from the MOMENT the iPad was released to when that became supported by some app?
People act like just because there are no apps RIGHT NOW for the xoom to play additional formats that there never ever will be.

Bauxite said:
How long did it take from the MOMENT the iPad was released to when that became supported by some app?
People act like just because there are no apps RIGHT NOW for the xoom to play additional formats that there never ever will be.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It took a while for XBMC to be ported, 9 months or so. Dont know if they were working on it that entire time. The reason people act like that BTW is because the Tegra 2 is incapable of hardware decoding [email protected] or higher. Here is the guy who ported XBMC to the iPad and AppleTV and who was tasked with porting to Tegra 2 devices talking about it:
http://forum.xbmc.org/showpost.php?p=735285&postcount=41
Believe me, I wish that were not the case. Wants me some Xoom or Galaxy Tab 10.1 action.

Correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing difference I seem to see from baseline and high profile h.264 is compression. My Xoom is fully capable of displaying the converted 720p mkvs with no chop/stutter in widescreen format on its screen. I've yet to test out hdmi out to my TV though.
Unless you want to talk about bitrate, but I can hardly tell the difference in quality loss vs source on something that I downloaded off the internet.

iceytea said:
Correct me if I'm wrong but the only thing difference I seem to see from baseline and high profile h.264 is compression. My Xoom is fully capable of displaying the converted 720p mkvs with no chop/stutter in widescreen format on its screen. I've yet to test out hdmi out to my TV though.
Unless you want to talk about bitrate, but I can hardly tell the difference in quality loss vs source on something that I downloaded off the internet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh there is no doubt that you can convert the video to play back perfectly on the Xoom. That isn't in question. I personally just think its ridiculous to have to.
Good read on the differences here, especially on page 3:
http://www.polycom.com/global/documents/whitepapers/h264_high_profile_wp.pdf
Warning, above is a direct link to a pdf.

Thanks for the read, I skimmed it and it pretty much sums up as higher compression without visual quality loss. I never put it together that the development of high profile was used for bandwidth savings though, interesting.

muyoso said:
Oh there is no doubt that you can convert the video to play back perfectly on the Xoom. That isn't in question. I personally just think its ridiculous to have to.
Good read on the differences here, especially on page 3:
http://www.polycom.com/global/documents/whitepapers/h264_high_profile_wp.pdf
Warning, above is a direct link to a pdf.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you for your posts, and yes, I COMPLETELY AGREE with you! Once I began my due diligence today comparing the iPad 1, iPad 2, and the Xoom I thought to see if high profile h.264 was supported.
I was shocked to find out that the Tegra 2's hw (and Nvidia has confirmed this) does not support high profile h.264. BUT.... the iPad 1 does?! It's ridiculous quite frankly, and in my eyes, Tegra 2 is partial failure because of it.
Anyway, iPad 1 handles that Planet Earth clip (i.e. the de facto pseudo h.264 720p/1080p benchmark for years it seems!) beautifully. How's the batter life when watching h.264? How long can you get? Also, I would think the iPad 2 is capable of 1080p high profile yes?
In any event, I won't be buying a zoom. For the steeper price point, that is just insulting. I'm gonna try to find one of the remnant ipad 1s from Verizon that have been creeping around for ~$300, however unlikely at that price point it may be to find!
Kudos to your efforts and exposing this massive fault in the Xoom. I have NEVER been a fan of reconversion of the years, from divx in its earliest days through xvid (when apple ironically pushed 'reconversion' into mainstream)... glad that w/ this bad boy that won't be necessary as I'd never do it, too much hassle and insulting, imho.

Not being able to play 720p videos is the main reason I returned the xoom. If I am forced to convert videos I might as well do it for the ipad.

I am so tempted to sell my xoom because of this video playback issue...
I have a lot of bluray rips and I cant watch them on the xoom.
They were encoded using the Apple TV2 preset in handbrake, which I'm guessing is high profile

Oh wow, if this is that serious most of the Honeycomb tablets will be losing quite a lot of sells. I hope Samsung doesn't use the Tegra in their tabs. I'm fine with their Exynos, assuming it has the amazing codec support their Hummingbird does.

Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.

pjcforpres said:
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That would seem to make since, but I believe in Google...A phrase I never thought I would be saying ever lol.

Sorry. But there isn't much doubt at this time that it IS in fact the "chip"
There are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of articles at this point citing the same thing: Tegra 2 CANNOT DECODE HIGH PROFILE VIDEO.
Period.
If you need me to cite about 50 different sources, I would be happy to do so.

Digital Man said:
Sorry. But there isn't much doubt at this time that it IS in fact the "chip"
There are dozens upon dozens upon dozens of articles at this point citing the same thing: Tegra 2 CANNOT DECODE HIGH PROFILE VIDEO.
Period.
If you need me to cite about 50 different sources, I would be happy to do so.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, no, I'll take your word for it. I guess some of us were hoping that it was just a honeycomb issue that would be fixed with an update.

pjcforpres said:
Its not the chip ( http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html ) supports 1080p h264 just fine. As it stands right now, best I have been able to gather, it is a software/firmware (likely drivers) issue causing the poor playback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Xoom can play baseline 1080p h.264. The Xoom cannot play 720p high profile h.264. I would venture to guess that 90% of all video that people have that they didn't videotape themselves is high profile h.264 with 9.99% of the remainder being main profile h.264.
hakujin said:
Anyway, iPad 1 handles that Planet Earth clip (i.e. the de facto pseudo h.264 720p/1080p benchmark for years it seems!) beautifully. How's the batter life when watching h.264? How long can you get? Also, I would think the iPad 2 is capable of 1080p high profile yes?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The iPad 1 handles the Planet Earth clip perfectly, but do realize that it is a jailbroken iPad with XBMC installed. The iPad does not natively support high profile h.264 even though the hardware is capable, because Apple wants you to buy media through iTunes.
The iPad 2 SHOULD be capable of 1080p high profile, but we won't know for sure until it too is jailbroken and XBMC is installed/optimized.

plex for android vs ios airvideo

In an atempt to watch some films stored on my 1TB box via local wifi, I have installed plex for android on my TF and a crappy atom 450 netbook. I also have a ipad 1 with airvideo on the ipad plus the netbook. firstly when my netbook is attached via usb to the HD box all the films are playable on the TF in any format all with sound and in the right aspect ratio, the problem is for any file over 1.5gig there is stopping and buffering, maybe due to the processor speed of the netbook. the difference on the ipad is totaly different. I have Inception at 720p and a file size of 3.5gig and it streams in high res with clear sound and picture on only 256mb ram.
As an avid android fan it pains me to say but im glad i also have a jailbroken ipad. At this stage of the game HC does not live up to what I had hoped an android tablet would be.
The negatives touted against a (rooted) ipad do not stack up, OK usb stick and sd card on an ipad but only if not powered so for files, photos etc, file browsing by ifile is easy, and flash is not an issue because its so flakey on the TF I use HTML5.
My general thoughts are the TF is a good netbook replacement and honeycomb is 75% there
the UI is way better than IOS, it just does not do what it says on the tin.
With a faster PC running the Flex server it is definatley the answer for all your movies no converting.
My only gripes with HC and maybe ASUS if they turn out to be TF related are flash, video performance in general and this awful unaceptable keyboard lag.
sort it out and I might sell my ipad

I agree with you that the TF sucks in handling flash and HD videos. However, bear in mind that the iPad has 1024x768 resolution, so it will not support 720p. Therefore, AirVideo is not nearly working as hard.

Looks like the bottle neck is your cpu and memory. I have a Intel Celeron E3300 and two GB of ram. I am able to stream 17-20GB blu ray rip from inside and outside my network with plex. The issue is that your computer has to transcode the video and audio before its sent it out to your TF. I noticed that on my E3300 clock at default 2.5 it was stuttering on files that were 6GB and higher. After overclocking it to 3.0 no issues. I dont know how airvideo works on the ipad but for plex it has to transcode the video/audio before it display on your TF.

It's probably down to how airvideo and plex actually encode the video stream...I do agree plex should give more options to allow better control of the codec itself..
you can also choose to encode all your movies files in handbreak using 720P High profile, they look great on the TF.

Can anyone tell me why Plex adds loads of compression when streaming videos? I've changed wi-fi to 5mb on my transformer but still compression everywhere. Maybe I'm missing something but there doesn't seem to be any transcoding settings on the PC client software. Playback looks so much better when playing the file from the internal memory on the transformer.
can anyone help please?

renegadeian123 said:
Can anyone tell me why Plex adds loads of compression when streaming videos? I've changed wi-fi to 5mb on my transformer but still compression everywhere. Maybe I'm missing something but there doesn't seem to be any transcoding settings on the PC client software. Playback looks so much better when playing the file from the internal memory on the transformer.
can anyone help please?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which verison of plex are you using? Under verison 9.8.7 there a setting call less Color/more speed. Make sure this is not enable. I don't believe that verison 1.0 has this setting. I get compression when my wifi is set to auto. With 5mb enable the compression is gone.

I'm running version 1.0 on android.
I downloaded a different version of ffmpeg as per this thread -
http://forums.plexapp.com/index.php/topic/26531-playback-issues-potential-fix/page__st__20
This seems to have solved it somewhat, although still not perfect. It's strange as a 720p file plays fine but a normal avi is not quite there.

Allshare Cast, worst 60€ spent ever!

I bought my Note 10.1 not long ago and after i played around a lot, rooted it and made it a german Note (it came from switzerland, no software updates available).
I thought, i can connect a mouse, a keyboard, USB drives .. but to get a video signal to my monitor, i would need the HDMI adapter for 18€ (which is much for a port that is native on most android tablets) which would block out USB devices OR i would buy the Allshare cast for 60€, which is wireless. I even planned to use it as windows alternative. Anyway, there are not much reviews about it that match my opinion after i used it for 15 minutes.
Out of the box, everything is great. I connect it to my 27" Asus PC screen (i was surprised they incuded a HDMI cable!), it starts by itself - huh, no separate switch to turn it off? No, there is not. It's always on. At least the LED doesn't shine as bright as the sun.
After that, i connected the Note 10.1 with it. I recorded for you what happens next:
Yup, that's right. Every Multiwindow availability disappears. From that point, it was almost certain i would send it back. But that's still not everything, i have ~15-20 FPS when scrolling through my homescreens and app drawer! Also there is ~0,1 - 0,2s of lag between the Note's screen and my Asus. I think videos work fine, i had only Simpsons on the Note and i can't really tell the FPS by that.
And the last part: The image quality is lousy. My 27" has only FullHD which is approximately half the DPI of the Note 10.1. But it has artefacts (it kind of compresses the colors i think; i tried to make pictures but you can't really see anything on it) which makes the image look so bad that i could instantly decide that i would send it back.
Probably i made someone the decision easier whether to buy it or not. I will buy the HDMI cable, have a look at the image quality and if it's worth it (and only then) i will keep it and probably buy a bluetooth keyboard + mouse so i can try again to use it as desktop replacement.

CentaXx said:
Out of the box, everything is great. I connect it to my 27" Asus PC screen (i was surprised they incuded a HDMI cable!), it starts by itself - huh, no separate switch to turn it off? No, there is not. It's always on. At least the LED doesn't shine as bright as the sun.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use the AllShare Cast dongle a lot; especially when I'm traveling. It performs pretty well but the weaker the Wi-Fi connection the more latency is introduced. I have no problems using the web or watching videos on hotel TVs when I'm traveling with good performance about 90% of the time. I've used the HTC Media Link HD dongle which does the same thing the Samsung dongle does. There's far less latency between the device and the dongle on Samsung's solution, it's easier to connect, and the HTC dongle has no on or off switch either.
Yup, that's right. Every Multiwindow availability disappears.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AllShare Cast uses a lot of resources on the device. I'm guessing that's why they disabled multiview which also uses a lot of resources on the device.
And the last part: The image quality is lousy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here are two clips of video playing via AllShare. The first is Hulu the second is YouTube. That means the device is downloading content via Wi-Fi and then projecting it out again via Wi-Fi to the dongle which is a lot more resource intensive than just playing local content. You’ll see the videos (both HD) play with no problem. I haven't had any issues (provided the Wi-Fi signal's decent) watching video from any number of sources. There's an update for the dongle in Play. Have you applied it?

Hmm, I also have the AllShare Cast dongle and I connect it with a Sony Bravia tv with excellent result, granted I limit its usage to playing locally stored video content but I have played some YouTube videos as well in HD mode with superb picture quality. I sit too far away from the tv to use it as an alternate screen but I suppose it might be possible.
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk HD

Yes, the update is installed. i didn't mean to compare the dongle to the HTC one, it's just that for my expectations the dongle did really bad. For pure multimedia purpose it would be not as bad as i experienced (the helicopter demo video ran smoothly), but i couldn't do anything to get higher FPS in android. I could even neglect the lag and a BIT of the bad image quality.
If i would only want to watch videos on the TV streamed with the Note, the Allcast Dongle would do fine but then i could use the HDMI cable, too - a bit less comfy, but 40€ cheaper than the dongle.

The dongle however is a lot more convenient than a cable. You can walk around with your tablet or sit quite a distance from the screen.
Sent from my GT-P3113 using Tapatalk HD

hilarious! why would I want LESS multi-tasking capability on a BIGGER screen?

Netflix HD not working after OTA?

*edit for those of you joining late* The issue is getting a netflix HD stream to the internal display. Currently we get SD streams unless we use external displays.
After the latest OTA update we were supposed to gain access to 1080p Netflix streaming right? Well, how exactly do we get that? I've been monitoring bandwidth and my TN7 while streaming still only uses about 1mbit/s which is definitely not a 1080p stream, but is also indicative of the tablet not even trying higher quality streams. I'm using the stock Netflix app, along with openvpn connect (the other end of the VPN is a gigabit box in the US and is definitely capable of that speed reliably), my local connection is 70mbit down reliably and my wifi AP is an Asus RT-N66U a few feet away.
I've gone and cleared the Netflix app's data but that doesn't seem to have fixed it, any thoughts on what else I can try?

CampGareth said:
After the latest OTA update we were supposed to gain access to 1080p Netflix streaming right? Well, how exactly do we get that? I've been monitoring bandwidth and my TN7 while streaming still only uses about 1mbit/s which is definitely not a 1080p stream, but is also indicative of the tablet not even trying higher quality streams. I'm using the stock Netflix app, along with openvpn connect (the other end of the VPN is a gigabit box in the US and is definitely capable of that speed reliably), my local connection is 70mbit down reliably and my wifi AP is an Asus RT-N66U a few feet away.
I've gone and cleared the Netflix app's data but that doesn't seem to have fixed it, any thoughts on what else I can try?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1080p output is only for when you have it outputing from hdmi to your tv, the tablet is only 720 so it makes sense it wouldn't try to download a bigger stream then needed
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

ckavvouras said:
1080p output is only for when you have it outputing from hdmi to your tv, the tablet is only 720 so it makes sense it wouldn't try to download a bigger stream then needed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
While that's true, there's a heckuva difference between the SD streams and any HD stream. As far as I can tell the tablet tops out at what would be low quality SD on a desktop, even on the built in screen it's possible to see more detail than we're getting. (Note identified streams are mobile, low quality SD, high quality SD, and HD).
Anyway, any thoughts on getting a HD stream to the internal display?

CampGareth said:
While that's true, there's a heckuva difference between the SD streams and any HD stream. As far as I can tell the tablet tops out at what would be low quality SD on a desktop, even on the built in screen it's possible to see more detail than we're getting. (Note identified streams are mobile, low quality SD, high quality SD, and HD).
Anyway, any thoughts on getting a HD stream to the internal display?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm fairly certain that I'm getting 720 on my tablet, the image is clean and detailed, maybe your problem is with your router or your internet connection. I tried to capture it but for some reason it keeps telling me sd card is in use.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

ckavvouras said:
I'm fairly certain that I'm getting 720 on my tablet, the image is clean and detailed, maybe your problem is with your router or your internet connection. I tried to capture it but for some reason it keeps telling me sd card is in use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mmhmm, I've gone ahead and done some bandwidth monitoring, see the screenshots attached. While watching the avengers with HD streams turned on average usage is 4-6mbps, with SD only it's about 3-4mbps, with the tablet in use and left to stream for a few minutes it's more like 1-2mbps. The desktop I'm using is wired, the tablet is connected to the same switch/AP the desktop is using (asus rt-n66u, 3 feet away through a table).
The CPU load is probably worth testing since the desktop has far more power for openvpn and such, 2.6 or so staring at the netflix home screen, 3.5-4 with a stream going, given the number of cores that's still a little lower than full load.
So, yeah, still not sure what the cause is, doesn't seem to be a problem anywhere...
http://imgur.com/a/FfN3C#0 *edit* I trust vnstat running on the VPN endpoint itself far more than I trust pfsense, so much stuff could be interfering there

Well how much bandwidth your using on pc vs tablet won't tell you much imo, both use different types of compression to stream that why you might be having varying results. I personally know that I'm at least getting 720p in my tablet, maybe there is a way to force it to stream at a higher resolution but I don't know of it.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using XDA Premium 4 mobile app

Netflix compatibility issue with Galaxy Buds connected

Hi. I want to point out a strange thing about Netflix app on S10+. Normally Netflix streams 1080p max on a good wifi connection. Now, as I don't have any way to determine the resolution, I follow the data consumption by Netflix. When I connect my phone with wifi with a fair speed of 20 to 25 Mbps, the data consumption varies somewhere between 1 to 3 MBps. Now the strange part is when I connect my Galaxy Buds with my phone, the resolution drops and the data consumption varies somewhere between 100 KBps to 600 KBps. Anyone else faced this kind of situation?

I tried now. The speed and quality continued in the same way, i got 20mbps. Will you also try fast.com speed test with and without buds? And try Netflix via browser on the phone. interesting issue.
S10 Plus (SM-975F) + Galaxy Buds (White)

You got the same issue?

No. I didn't have the problem you were talking about.