Database Users

safe way for flashing rom?

Hello there,
I now am a happy owner of a HTC Prophet ( I bought it as an O2 XDA neo) for about two weeks.
The thing works fine, but I am interested in installing linux on it (that's the main reason why I registered at this site).
But because this little piece of hardware is quite expensive I have some concerns about flashing the rom. So I have to ask:
Is there a SAFE way to try a new/altered/old/linux rom on my Prophet;
e.g. if the newly installed rom isn't working/ I don't like it/ the flashing process crashed/... can I somehow get the original state(e.g. the O2 branded WM5) back on the machine?
I cannot afford to try something with this machine and afterwards I have to put it in a trashcan :-(
-regards,
traintop

There are no 'safe' way of doing it. Probably the safest way of doing it to let an experience person to flash it for you, still there are certain risks.
For your case, I don't think you should flash it yourself. BTW, there is linux ROM for Prophet?

If you want to deal with linux, you need to modify bootloader.
This is not safe. You may turn your device into brick quite easy.
If you want experementing with linux, then look on Nokia 770, it would be your choice. Linux is by default installed on Nokia 770. And you don't need to modify bootloader.
regards,
de fdp24

hanmin said:
BTW, there is linux ROM for Prophet?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't found one yet; and I believe there aren't any. But if you want to try a compiled kernel on a PocketPC, I would think putting it into a ROM and flashing this one to your machine is the best way...
-I have to say I have experience in building linux on Intel-based PCs from scratch and I just wanted to know whether there is way of trying linux on my Prohpet in a way similar to the one used on your desktop (e.g. dual-booting).
But because storage-capacities (ROM) is quite tiny in comparison to desktop PCs (where another hard drive or at least a partition ist easily installed to switch between) I think you have to
backup your current state of the Prophet,
save it to your PC,
flash the new to-be-tested ROM on the Prophet,
reboot and try.
After testing you can flash back the "original" (in my situation: WM5) ROM, reboot and you're fine.
With this process I have no problems at all (although a bit time-expensive) if and only if the flashing of the Prophet can be done quite safely...
I have read a lot about linux on HTC devices and found out that the Prophet is nearly an exact copy of the Wizard, just without keyboard.
So how do the guys from the Wizard-Team do the testing of the newly compiled kernels and so on...
-If they would have to fear the end of their machine each time flashing the ROM I think they are either very brave men or they have good tools.
I think I will post my question in the wizard thread as well but thought to ask here first because they will probably say: I have no idea; I only have a wizard! ... :-(
-cu,
traintop
ps: after reading my post again I remember an old SUSE-distribution (I think it was 5.4) where you could install a little Programm on your Windows-partition.
When you started this programm it booted a linux kernel which in some way managed to get windows completely out of RAM and you could work with your linux-box as if it was booted with linux from the very beginning...
-perhaps this could also be a solution...

If you are not familiar with Linux - never try to play it with mobile devices. Just a good advice: use your desktop and let your handheld live as it born

LINUX BOOTS at OPAL! Thanks to linwizard project!

Hi there,
I got Linux to boot at OPAL via linwizard project. Here are steps needed to get it work.
1) download image from:
http://tinderbox.x86.dev.gentoo.org/embedded/linwizard/gizard-20080602.tar.bz2
2) copy content of file to the microSD card
3) edit default txt and replace init=/linuxrc with init=/bin/sh
4) run haret and let it boot.
After a while you'll get to shell. No graphics.
Now you can attach microusb cable and connect it with your linux laptop (I recommend ubuntu)
and you will get usb0 interfece to start up.
Which IP to use to connect with OPAL I still must investigate.

Well ip connectivity now works:
ip=<client-ip>:<server-ip>:<gw-ip>:<netmask>:<hostname>:<device>:<autoconf>
Notas:/# ifconfig usb0 up 192.168.2.200 netmask 255.255.255.0
Listik:/usr/src/linux-2.6.27/Documentation# ping 192.168.2.202
PING 192.168.2.202 (192.168.2.202) 56(84) bytes of data.
64 bytes from 192.168.2.202: icmp_seq=1 ttl=64 time=2.95 ms
64 bytes from 192.168.2.202: icmp_seq=2 ttl=64 time=1.72 ms
And how to do it:
prolong "set CMDLINE" line with
ip=192.168.2.202:192.168.2.200:192.168.2.200pal:usb0
But in this image there doesn't seem to be any telnet/ssh server running. I will try cook image with ssh server support later

Download error
Were not able to re-upload

404 file not found error!!

http://tinderbox.x86.dev.gentoo.org/embedded/linwizard/
and open latest gizard-<date>.tar.bz2
or that I suppose.
The latest link should be http://tinderbox.x86.dev.gentoo.org/embedded/linwizard/gizard-20090703.tar.bz2

does this mean any chance of android working? anyone tried?

Hey,
I'm a new Opal user and I'm interested in getting *nix running on my device. I still haven't had the chance to mess around with this stuff but I'm excited to see this thread.
I was looking into the possibility of running Android on the Opal and it seems the closest thing is this thread bout running it on the Herald (it uses the same processor as the Opal).
I don't any experience in Linux porting so I thought I'd share this, in case anyone else is interested. And at the same time, I'll try to see if I can get something working based on what has been/is being done for other devices.
Sorry for the long post.

Hey Folks,
Any progress on getting Android on Opal? I am eagerly waiting to load one.
Kindly let me know, if this version of Linux when loaded, gives the UI.
Cheers'
Vijay
cijoml said:
Hi there
I got Linux to boot at OPAL via linwizard project. Here are steps needed to get it work.
1) download image from:
http://tinderbox.x86.dev.gentoo.org/embedded/linwizard/gizard-20080602.tar.bz2
2) copy content of file to the microSD card
3) edit default txt and replace init=/linuxrc with init=/bin/sh
4) run haret and let it boot.
After a while you'll get to shell. No graphics.
Now you can attach microusb cable and connect it with your linux laptop (I recommend ubuntu)
and you will get usb0 interfece to start up.
Which IP to use to connect with OPAL I still must investigate.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Android can boot on Opal
I have some good news, Android can boot on the Opal. This is just a proof of concept as it's missing tons of drivers and is completely useless.
Touchscreen and all keys except for the volume control (and obviously the reset button) are not working. So you basically can't do anything when you run it.
What I tried is the same as what's written in this thread about running Android on Gene. They're using the build made for the Herald/Wing (just as I was proposing in my last post) with customized initramfs and kernel.
You'll find all the necessary details in that thread. However, there's a newer build than the one mentioned there it's wing-linux-0.4pre2.cab. And the suitable kernel for that build is supposed to be the pre2 posted in this post but it didn't work on my Opal so I tried the older Gene kernel and it worked. The main difference between the two is bluetooth support, and that's obviously is of no use for us.
This doesn't effect the Windows rom, nor does it requires any special partitioning. Still it's best to have everything backed up before launching it, just in case.
This is the official site for the wing/herald build:
http://wing-linux.sf.net/
This thread on their forums about the Gene port will probably be of use to us:
http://sourceforge.net/apps/phpbb/wing-linux/viewtopic.php?f=4&t=4
I'm reading about the next steps but as I said before, I don't have any previous experience or knowledge about this type of things. If someone can give me hand, I would be more than grateful. At any rate, once I have better understanding of the concept I'll contact the people behind the Wing and the Gene ports.
P.S: If you do try to run this, keep in mind that this will take lots of time, specially for the first launch. And when you get an error saying something like "android sh: can't access tty" just ignore it and keep waiting. After a while you'll have a flashing "android" on the screen, and after some more waiting you'll reach the main screen.

Is this just THE BEGINNING
Sooper Stuff..!! So is this just THE BEGINNING??
How do we port the drivers and other required information in the build?
Cheers'
Vijay
www.msigeek.com

A Lil' help
I'm going through the Gene port thread here and on the Wing-linux sourceforge forums but I'm still a bit overwhelmed.
I would appreciate any help as I'm completely new to porting. I have some programming and linux knowledge but never attempted this type of things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So am I.
Hmmm...
Right. Lets do it the way I did it.
1. Get the touchscreen working. Through HaRET, you must have got the GPIO interrupt whenever you pressed the touchscreen. You must have got two numbers corresponding to each press - a smaller number and a bigger number. The smaller number is the GPIO, and the larger number is, well, lets say a special GPIO value for the same pin.
Now checkout the Gene branch through git.
Goto /wing-linux/kernel/arch/arm/mach-omap1/board-htcherald.c
Scroll down to a block of code where you'll see the touchscreen code. Enter the smaller number in the .dav_gpio statement, and the IRQ number in the OMAP_GPIO_IRQ() statement below.
2. Follow the Kernel build instructions on the development section of the wing-linux wiki (the two make commands)
Copy the zImage into the linux folder on your SD card
Boot into wing-linux. The touchscreen should start working.
3. Now, hopefully, after the touchscreen's working, You would essentially just require two more buttons - the home button and the back button for minimum functionality. Everything else can be worked on by the touchscreen.
Then follow the instructions on the wing-linux forum (Page 2) to get the KEY(row,col) values of the keys on your handset. Hopefully you should get atleast a couple. Note down the corresponding keys and their KEY(r,c) values output.
4. Fire up board-htcherald.c again and goto the place where you have the KEY(r,c,KEY_blah) thing and replace the codes as per your obtained KEY(r,c,KEY_blah) values (The Home button is the one commented as Left Button)
5. That's all I can help you with as of now. I'm also figuring out a stable way of getting the DPad and the center select key to work, but It'll take some time.

Thanks kshaurya!
(This guy right here is the one who fixed the kernel for Gene, I asked him for some pointers).
I don't want to take my device apart just yet (I usually do my best not take to dismantle anything that I haven't owned for at least 3 months unless absolutely necessary) and I couldn't find a place that states what touchscreen it uses. I'm just hoping that it's the same a tsc2046 as well. [Is there anyone without a warranty and/or willing to check for us?]
I'm gonna double check the values I got from the touchscreen as for some reason I seem to have to IRQ values, probably forgot to get rid of some spamming irq. And, at the same time, I'm currently setting up a VM as a building environment, my main boot is Intrepid 64 and there's no 'psyco' package for 64 machines.
If anyone else have some experience and wants to try this, refer to: http://www.handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/HaRET_20Documentation (using haret to get the GPIO and IRQ values needed).
And to:
http://sourceforge.net/apps/trac/wing-linux/wiki/Development (acquiring the source code from Wing Linux and how to build it).
And a quick question for anyone that tried booting Android on the Opal, what screen did you get when Android finally finished booting?

I don't want to take my device apart just yet
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh? where did that come from? Wing Linux will not touch your WM.
I seem to have to IRQ values
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you mean two? Well, that's exactly what you should get. Even if it's just one, enter that value in the code.
my main boot is Intrepid 64 and there's no 'psyco' package for 64 machines
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh no. dont tell me that you are building the entire thing. all you need to do is build the KERNEL! Please! Don't go into building the whole thing from scratch. Use the make ARCH ARM commands given on that page.

kshaurya said:
Huh? where did that come from? Wing Linux will not touch your WM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I mean to check the screen, in case it turned out to be different that what you have.
kshaurya said:
Do you mean two? Well, that's exactly what you should get. Even if it's just one, enter that value in the code.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, stupid typo.
I noticed now that one of them appears when I keep the screen 'touched' for a bit longer.
kshaurya said:
Oh no. dont tell me that you are building the entire thing. all you need to do is build the KERNEL! Please! Don't go into building the whole thing from scratch. Use the make ARCH ARM commands given on that page.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not gonna build the complete thing. Seems like I got too exited and failed to notice that building the kernel only requires a cross-compile toolchain, te rest is for compiling the whole thing.
I'm not THIS stupid usually . Honestly!
Thanks again!

I'm not THIS stupid usually . Honestly!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its pretty normal

Weird.
I've only changed the two touchscreen values and built the kenrel. It finished without any error but now it won't boot.
It gets stuck, even before the space allocation part, with this error: "sh: can't access tty; job control turned off". And then it displays a prompt.
I'll try modifying an older build, I'm pulling them from the repos at the moment.
After all, the pre2 kernel from Gene didn't boot on my device (although it got stuck later on).

Try doing a clean install - Remove the linux folder and try again.
Also, make sure that you're not forgetting to checkout the Gene branch.
Code:
git checkout Gene
Is your default.txt modified? And have you downloaded the modified initramfs.cpio?
check in the Gene forums for that.

Already tried the clean install, no dice. The default.txt is untouched and I'm using the modified intramfs. What happened this time is different from what happens using the original one, it's not asking me to specify the partition size but instead it's waiting for a command. I could probably ssh via usb but I have no clue how that might help.
And I've already checked out the Gene branch from the beginning.
I've tried compiling the kernel for pre1 (after changing the screen values) from SVN and it did boot (both using the cabs for pre1 and pre2) but no touch screen yet. All in all, I'm guessing that there's too much hardware difference here.
And the button for lowering volumes didn't work either, it seems like whatever you changed for getting it to work on Gene is the same as what we need here, but I'll think about that later.
I only have two ideas left:
- Trying to go back to a more stable build (with lesser features and lesser possibilities for errors). Maybe 0.3.
- Trying to create some kind of hybrid kernel using this alongside the HTC Vogue build as it probably has closer hardware to the Opal (obviously, I'm talking about everything beside the MSM7500 400MHz processor that it has). I'm hoping it won't get to this cause I'm definitely under qualified for that at the time being.

What happened this time is different from what happens using the original one, it's not asking me to specify the partition size but instead it's waiting for a command.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you post a screenshot?
I've tried compiling the kernel for pre1 (after changing the screen values)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm assuming you mean the touchscreen values? Try interchanging and see.
Trying to go back to a more stable build
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't recommend that. Defeats the whole purpose.
Why don't you try getting in touch with darkstar?

kshaurya said:
Could you post a screenshot?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A friend borrowed my digital camera, I tried my laptop's webcam but the text it too blurry. Couldn't fix it using gimp either. So here's exactly what's showing on the screen:
Code:
mdir: Cannot creat directory `/mnt' : File exists
modprbe: could not parse modules.dep
initramfs: Creating device nodes:
initramfs: Loading /initrd.d/10-initfs.sh module
initramfs: Loading /initrd.d/30-wingboot.sh module
Selected:
ROOT_DEVICE=/dev/
CMDLINE=debug quiet psplash=false loglevel=7 init=/sbin/init console=tty0 video=omapfb:accel fbcon=rotate:3 4 root=/dev/
initramfs: Loading /initrd.d/80-loopboot.sh module
initramfs: Loading /initrd.d/85-blockboot.sh module
booting from: /dev/
mount: Mounting /dev/ on /mnt failed: Invalid argument
Unable to mount rootfs device
sh: can't access tty; job control turned off
/ $
And after the prompt, on the same line, there's a flashing '_' waiting for input.
Using the original zImage (from the pre2 cab) it's right around here that the screen clears and the Wing Linux installation script kicks in.
kshaurya said:
I'm assuming you mean the touchscreen values? Try interchanging and see.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Will try that next.
kshaurya said:
I wouldn't recommend that. Defeats the whole purpose.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I meant it as just a temporary test to till the cause of the incompatibility is figured out. With less things that could go wrong, it'll be easier to locate the ones that are going wrong.
kshaurya said:
Why don't you try getting in touch with darkstar?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right. I should post a thread on the project's forums asking for his help.

[PRJ] Boot linux natively on a WM device

Hi!
So what it's all about?
There are so many projects dedicated to porting linux to WM devices.
Mostly the only way to boot into linux and kick windows mobile out of RAM is the haret tool.
For thoose who never heard of it is a linux bootloader (it is even more), that is started from within windows mobile.
This is the result of the fact that the native bootcode of the device could not easily be replaced.
Apart from that, there are to many things to consider to rewrite own bootcode for a closed device.
So what if the native bootcode "thinks" it boots in windows mobile again, but it in fact jumps into linux kernel code?
Whaaat, you might think and i thought a lot of it in the last few weeks:
The idea is, to embed a linux kernel in a XIP container and boot it with the native bootloader
So that's crazy stuff and it's even more crazy, that some insane hackers already did some successful attempts.
The project aims to port Android to a device called Meizu M8.
Step into this thread and start reading:
http://www.meizume.com/modding-development/9014-project-port-android-meizu-m8-18.html
One of the developers already has started to push some GIT-repos of the toolset here:
http://gitorious.com/~banxian
Of course there's a lot to investigate and other things to consider:
1. The injected code must be in good shape (kernel needs excellent hardware support)
2. The device will need to be hard-SPLed (no security check)
3. The files must match the Flash layout of the bootcode
4. JTAG support for the device would be mandatory for testing
5. Lots of information about internal Flash structure is required
....
Please tell me what you think about it!
Cheers,
scholbert

That's an excellent idea!
Multiboot would seem to be a better (albeit more complicated) alternative to me though... In their current stage, Linux ports to WM devices tend to be unstable and rather limited in functionality. Replacing a fully functional WM with a semi-functional Android on one's primary device is not as tempting as having both at the same time.
I'd say the first step in this direction is bootstrapping custom XIP from RAM with a patched SPL. Flashing XIP nbX every time custom XIP is patched is slow and tedious. Once a working XIP with booting Linux kernel is available, it should be relatively easy to switch SPL back to normal booting from NAND. Also ULDR XIP can be used as a container for the custom XIP rather than the WM kernel XIP. This way one can boot WM by default and then reboot to ULDR/Linux if required (not quite multiboot, but something close).
The caveat here is that when HaRet is used to boot Linux kernel from under WM, some hardware init could have been carried out by WM kernel at boot time. When WM kernel/XIP was never ran, there's a good chance some of the hardware that works when booting Linux via HaRet won't work anymore Completely bypassing WM kernel initialization means more initialization may have to be done in Linux kernel/custom XIP.
The progress that Meizu people made is certainly impressive, but there's a long way from a 100-byte piece of code that fills the framebuffer to a fully working Linux kernel. I'm not being sceptical here, on contrary I'm pretty sure this is possible, but it will take a lot of time and dedication to make this happen. At any rate, good luck and I'm sure you'll find plenty of support here.

This project, is cool, i am waiting any progress, i want put the android in the MS20(Brazillian KS20 without wifi and 3G)

Hi again,
thanks for the feedback so far
@ stepw:
I really share your thoughts concerning long and dusty road of development.
So perhaps i was in kind of euphoria when i decided to post it yesterday.
Anyway, let's see what the future will bring us
Maybe we should start with some kind of ramloader and place it in XIP area.
BTW, could you be more specific about this ULDR XIP thing?
Sounds interesting and to be honest, never heard of it...
Please consider the thread as a starting point for an open discussion.
Anyway, i will need help, because i'm a horrible hacker.
So maybe i should have written IDEA not PRJ
Have a nice day!
scholbert

As per http://channel9.msdn.com/wiki/CEDeveloper/BSP/
ULDR and IPL
For BSPs that are for Windows Mobile products, the ULDR and IPL are required parts of the BSP.
“ULDR” stands for “Update Loader”, and is part of the Image Update system. This system allows deployed devices to be updated with new software after they ship. The Update Loader reads a configuration stored in persistent memory and downloads and installs new versions of operating system or OEM files.
“IPL” stands for “Initial Program Loader”. This piece of code is launched by the bootloader or executed directly at startup if a bootloader has been removed from a board. The sole job of this program is to choose whether to execute the ULDR software, or load and execute the operating system that is currently on the device. If a user has downloaded new versions of operating system or OEM files, the IPL will be configured to launch the ULDR. Otherwise, it will load and launch the OS.
===
Da_G's thread http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=520009 has plenty of information about ULDR, although it's more about keeping it rather than about using it for something else.
Replacing ULDR is a valid way to inject another item into NAND partition table. Unfortunately with WM all 4 primary partitions are used in the MBR by default, so taking ULDR out allows for reuse of one of the parition slots for other purposes. IPL already has a way to bootstrap either ULDR or OEM XIP (WM kernel), it should be possible to control boot partition selection from each of the OSes. Manipulating partition type and flags should make it possible to choose the default OS too.
ULDR partition is typically fairly small, but it can be expanded to store Linux ramfs image or even the filesystem. Alternatively, FATFS partition in NAND could be mounted at boot and filesystem image could be located there. Yet another location for it is IMGFS partition, but that calls for a file system driver (read-only at least) that I don't think exists for Linux. Anyway, if at least FATFS can be mounted, access to all user files accessible from WM should also be possible from Linux/Android once it's booted.
Sorry for deviating from the original topic

Hey stepw!
Sorry for deviating from the original topic
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey we got an open discussion here...
Thanks for all this useful information so far!!
I knew about starting up WM platform and i also looked deeper into IPL and stuff. What i am missing a little is just these information about XIP and WM image in general.
So i think i'll first step through Da_G'S thread, it looks very promising. Great stuff!
Again leave your technical comments here, because i think it's the only way to get best solution
Best regards,
scholbert

Hi,
I've been working on this for a few days now and have a simple bootloader that loads and runs a kernel on my vogue. Unfortunately the kernel doesn't boot properly because it can't initialise all the hardware correctly but it definitely runs. Attached is my code and a script to insert it into an xip payload with a kernel.

Woooow.....
Hey dzo,
this is a real breakthrough or whatever you may call it.
Really great stuff!
Maybe this won't reach peoples interest right now,
but let me forecast, that someday this will give us the opportunity
to wipe out windows mobile completely if we like to
Anyway i think it would be nice to get some stuff pointed out more clearly.
So let me sum up:
1. Let's assume we got excellent kernel zImage to support the hardware of our device.
We will need to initialize even parts of hardware in this kernel,
that we did not even know about, while testing with haret.
2. We need some hard-SPL bootcode on our device, because we need to avoid security check of the image.
3. We got WM ROM for our device and we got some kitchen to extract it and work with it.
The starting point will be the file OS.nb.payload, because this is pure binary.
(the image like it is stored in NAND flash memory).
The image (OS.nb.payload) itself is organized in different parts and partitions.
At the moment we don't care much about it, because we leave it mainly untouched.
We need to find the entry point from the WM kernel, which is pure XIP code (XIP.bin).
4. We inject a tiny loader for elf binaries at this point, which is also compiled as XIP code (tinboot).
5. We step a bit further and place the kernel zImage (which is an elf file) at a certain offset.
At least this should be the address the tiny loader points at (e.g. offset + 0x8000).
6. We use some kitchen tools to reconstruct a flashable image.
7. We flash this image to our platform, using the same tools we use to flash a cooked ROM.
8. We boot into linux!
Please correct me if i forgot something or made a wrong assumption here.
Would be really nice to get some more hackers and ROM cookers over here to benefit the discussion.
Thanks again dzo!
Best regards,
scholbert

Hi again!
A little research at the forum gives some more details about OS.nb.payload:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=446506
This maybe all well known, but should help to point at it again for a better understanding.
So if we use mtty and type the info 8 command on HTC loaders this prints out these partitions (should be all the same on HTC devices):
Partition[0], type=0x20, start=..., total=... BOOT (ULDR)
Partition[1], type=0x23, start=..., total=... RAWFS (XIP)
Partition[2], type=0x25, start=..., total=... IMGFS (SYSTEM)
Partition[2], type=0x04, start=..., total=... FATFS
TBC
scholbert

dzo said:
Hi,
I've been working on this for a few days now and have a simple bootloader that loads and runs a kernel on my vogue. Unfortunately the kernel doesn't boot properly because it can't initialise all the hardware correctly but it definitely runs. Attached is my code and a script to insert it into an xip payload with a kernel.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's some excellent progress! Did you build your kernel yourself too? Is it mission critical hardware that fails initalization or some minor stuff?

Other OS's/UI's on Dream? (Maemo, Openmoko, Native debian, X11 support, etc)

I didn't think it belonged in Dream Android Development, so I'm putting it here. If it needs to be moved, move it.
Is it possible to boot anything other than Android on the Dream?
I've seen the Nokia N900 and its Maemo 5 firmware, and I'm absolutely drawn to it, thanks to its debian-based OS (sudo apt-get install anything), it's X-based graphics system (REAL linux GUI programs), and all the apps it already has (Native Gizmo > Hacky Sipdroid).
I've also taken a look at other Linux-based open phone firmwares.
What is keeping us from doing this? If it's drivers, do they exist for another similar Linux-based firmware?
Could we dual-boot Android and this other OS using a third-stage bootloader which loads as a kernel from within the BOOT: partition?
I've seen the (albeit extremely hackish) method of getting Debian on the G1, chrooting into a loop-mounted FS and using a loopback VNC to spring into a KDE/Gnome/LXDE UI, but it's slow, still has Android and its apps loaded into memory, and very hackish and unstable.
I'm more than willing to test anything firmware-wise on my phone as long as it doesn't mess with my SPL.
The possibilities are nearly limitless - WINE under Linux means true "Windows Mobile" without the WinCE kernel.
Or perhaps WinMo/WinCE can be booted on the Dream?
It's more of a question of whether or not it's possible right now than a concept or implementation, but once that's answered, I'll either throw some time into testing and porting, or kick back and enjoy the Android as it is.
For starters:
- How does the SPL hand off to the BOOT: partition and its kernel/initrd?
- What devices need what drivers? What should be thrown into the kernel?
- Do things need reverse-engineering or is it all straightforward and documented?
- How can we use the space provided without messing with the SPL? (use cache partition for OS? Modified recovery that doesn't depend on cache partition?)
- Is dual-booting between Android possible? Can this be switched and launched before Dalvik and the Android stuff loads on the Android kernel?
- Can this be done with other Android-powered, rooted devices?

Have you seen wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_on_HTC-Dream or lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-August/052529.html? (Crap, I can't post links) Looks promising since Angstrom is a very powerful embedded distro, but it's a one-man project now. I hope some people will join it or start a similar project.
G1 is a great device, however, I can see only a few people hacking on OS alternatives for it. You always got to have either an active community or a company in order to complete such a project.
The Android hackers community is very vibrant, however, people are not really interested in bringing a fully-featured Linux distro to G1 or other Android phones. Android is too trendy itself
The Debian/Ubuntu opportunity that we have now is nice, but it looks like an addition to the Android which takes a lot of memory and CPU.
I have just set up a small Ubuntu environment booting on my G1 together with Android. I combined the userspace prepared by Paolo Sammicheli (xdatap1.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/jaunty-under-android/) with Bayle Shanks's instructions (bayleshanks.com/wiki.pl?tips-computer-android-g1_debian_cyanogenMod). I am going to use it for mutt, vim, some coding. X11/VNC experience has been frustrating so far.
I am pretty sure though that there will be more people wanting to use alternative OSes on their phones: Moto Droid and Nexus are powerful enough for a full desktop environment.

vaskas said:
Have you seen wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_on_HTC-Dream or lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-August/052529.html? (Crap, I can't post links) Looks promising since Angstrom is a very powerful embedded distro, but it's a one-man project now. I hope some people will join it or start a similar project.
G1 is a great device, however, I can see only a few people hacking on OS alternatives for it. You always got to have either an active community or a company in order to complete such a project.
The Android hackers community is very vibrant, however, people are not really interested in bringing a fully-featured Linux distro to G1 or other Android phones. Android is too trendy itself
The Debian/Ubuntu opportunity that we have now is nice, but it looks like an addition to the Android which takes a lot of memory and CPU.
I have just set up a small Ubuntu environment booting on my G1 together with Android. I combined the userspace prepared by Paolo Sammicheli (xdatap1.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/jaunty-under-android/) with Bayle Shanks's instructions (bayleshanks.com/wiki.pl?tips-computer-android-g1_debian_cyanogenMod). I am going to use it for mutt, vim, some coding. X11/VNC experience has been frustrating so far.
I am pretty sure though that there will be more people wanting to use alternative OSes on their phones: Moto Droid and Nexus are powerful enough for a full desktop environment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i really think it lies in what you want from your phone... i know you say you use your ubuntu env for things such as vim and mutt, but everything that vim and mutt can do, can already be done under android..
the biggest challenge is getting people to latch on to an alternate distro which offers MORE than android, which has yet to come to surface... ultimately this is a phone.. not a netbook...and for a phone android is pretty dam sweet...
although in terms of geek work, running ANY other os on non native hardware is cool....albeit not really worth it

anybody were successful by using the internal-memory-image from the openmoko wiki?
I always get kernel panic, when booting it. I flashed it with flash_image boot/system, does this matter? In the wiki they use fastboot.

scheich, I only tried the SD-card way (see my post in http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=624392)
It shouldn't really matter whether you use fastboot or flash the image. The kernel panic could occur due to the inability to find the root filesystem. Try reflashing the yaffs2.
By the way, why did you choose to put OpenMoko in the internal memory? Are you going to use it exclusively or as the primary OS on the device?

Some of what you suggest can be done, but not recommended.
1) Nokia/Maemo is a bad fit for a phone. It is a real HOG. It is also shoehorning (with a sledge hammer) a desktop OS into a phone. It just doesn't work right. Android exists because a totally new UI model was needed to work optimally with a phone's physical form.
2) WINE will NEVER work since the CPU in the phone is ARM and not x86. If you want to run windonkey programs (can't imagine why you would), you would have to run a PROCESSOR EMULATOR, and this will be REALLY REALLY REALLY slow and memory intense.
TylTru said:
I didn't think it belonged in Dream Android Development, so I'm putting it here. If it needs to be moved, move it.
Is it possible to boot anything other than Android on the Dream?
I've seen the Nokia N900 and its Maemo 5 firmware, and I'm absolutely drawn to it, thanks to its debian-based OS (sudo apt-get install anything), it's X-based graphics system (REAL linux GUI programs), and all the apps it already has (Native Gizmo > Hacky Sipdroid).
I've also taken a look at other Linux-based open phone firmwares.
What is keeping us from doing this? If it's drivers, do they exist for another similar Linux-based firmware?
Could we dual-boot Android and this other OS using a third-stage bootloader which loads as a kernel from within the BOOT: partition?
I've seen the (albeit extremely hackish) method of getting Debian on the G1, chrooting into a loop-mounted FS and using a loopback VNC to spring into a KDE/Gnome/LXDE UI, but it's slow, still has Android and its apps loaded into memory, and very hackish and unstable.
I'm more than willing to test anything firmware-wise on my phone as long as it doesn't mess with my SPL.
The possibilities are nearly limitless - WINE under Linux means true "Windows Mobile" without the WinCE kernel.
Or perhaps WinMo/WinCE can be booted on the Dream?
It's more of a question of whether or not it's possible right now than a concept or implementation, but once that's answered, I'll either throw some time into testing and porting, or kick back and enjoy the Android as it is.
For starters:
- How does the SPL hand off to the BOOT: partition and its kernel/initrd?
- What devices need what drivers? What should be thrown into the kernel?
- Do things need reverse-engineering or is it all straightforward and documented?
- How can we use the space provided without messing with the SPL? (use cache partition for OS? Modified recovery that doesn't depend on cache partition?)
- Is dual-booting between Android possible? Can this be switched and launched before Dalvik and the Android stuff loads on the Android kernel?
- Can this be done with other Android-powered, rooted devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

vaskas said:
scheich, I only tried the SD-card way (see my post in http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=624392)
It shouldn't really matter whether you use fastboot or flash the image. The kernel panic could occur due to the inability to find the root filesystem. Try reflashing the yaffs2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tried reflashing the system image. Also the older image on the ftpserver. The same. I will try the sdcard installation.
vaskas said:
By the way, why did you choose to put OpenMoko in the internal memory? Are you going to use it exclusively or as the primary OS on the device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two reasons:
1. Thought that would be the faster way to get it work. I used BART to backup my android installation.
2. Thougt, I would get a bit more perfomance in using the internal memory.
I really would like to use SHR(or other) as primary OS, because I had an GTA02, depends on what is(could) work(ing) on the dream.

would it be possible to boot ubuntu netbook remix? it uses far less resources.

zenstitution said:
would it be possible to boot ubuntu netbook remix? it uses far less resources.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NBR is targeted at x86, but Ubuntu MID edition is installable. It's similar to the netbook remix. We'll have to wait before we have a proven/stable installation method though.

I would really like to see another OS on my Dream as well - just in addition to android

Che123 said:
I would really like to see another OS on my Dream as well - just in addition to android
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, you can try the OpenMoko port (it's in the alpha stage now): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5521417
The more people get interested in the alternative OS, the sooner we'll get one.

vaskas said:
Well, you can try the OpenMoko port (it's in the alpha stage now): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5521417
The more people get interested in the alternative OS, the sooner we'll get one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really hot stuff - but i don't want to loose my recovery
But i will definetly keep an eye on it!
edit: Adding a bootmngr like grub for selecting boot OS (android/openmoko/recovery) would be really nice Or adding bootoptions to the current amon_ra Recovery would be a soloution too. But I'm no dev, so I don't even know if it is possible.

[ROM] [non-Android] postmarketOS for the HTC Desire Z

Hi there,
I have recently ported postmarketOS [1] to the HTC Desire Z. postmarketOS is a Linux distribution for mobile devices based on Alpine Linux and the primary platform for KDE's Plasma Mobile desktop.
Note that this work is nowhere near ready for productive use, at least not as a phone. It boots, the weston demo UI starts and you can ssh into it via USB or Wifi (use nmtui or nmcli to configure it), but that's pretty much it. I'm posting here in the hope that other developers might be interested in joining this effort. It might be useful as small server for personal use, perhaps to host a NextCloud instance or something like that.
For installation instructions, refer to the Installation Guide at [3] and the wiki page for the HTC Desire Z at [4]. It should be possible to run postmarketOS without installing anything at all on the phone (other than an unlocked bootloader) by installing onto a microSD card and booting via the `fastboot boot` command.
[1] https://postmarketos.org/
[3] https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/Installation_guide
[4] https://wiki.postmarketos.org/wiki/HTC_Desire_Z_(htc-vision)
P. S. If you're wondering why I didn't put this in the developers' section where it belongs: It's because I'm not allowed to post there due to being a new member, and for the same reason I can't post proper links. In order to prevent spam, new users are required to spam 10 posts in order to be able to do perfectly legitimate things. How ironic :silly:

First of all, thank you for your time working this out and notifying us, I really appreciate all the people that keep my fine (but old) hardware usable.
I have 3 Desire-Z's (now running cyanogenmod), and would like to try PostMarketOS on one of them.
What is the state of the device? Can I use PostmarketOS to safely browse the web?
Do you have any specific instructions for the microSDcard installation? Is it just installing/running the pmbootstrap command on my linux machine with the correct sdcard device, insert the sdcard into my Desire Z and then starting it with volume-down button pressed, until the (in my case already unlocked) bootloeader menu appears and then running 'fastboot boot <what parameter goes here?>' from the connected linux computer?

Hi C-Base,
Thanks for your interest! I should mention again that this is pretty much a developer thing for now… But in case you want to get your hands dirty and maybe hack on the device a bit, here are my answers:
– What is the state of the device? Please refer to the wiki page, the state is documented there.
– Does it run a browser? I don't know, I've never tried, but I'd guess it wouldn't work. Even if it runs somehow, I'd guess it would probably be unusably slow because I haven't made the hardware graphics acceleration work yet
– Regarding sdcard installation: yes, you pretty much got it right! The last step would be to type "pmbootstrap flasher boot", which is essentially a wrapper for fastboot that will figure out the correct parameters for you. If that doesn't work, you can try "pmbootstrap export". That will copy a bootable image to /tmp/postmarketOS-export/boot.img-htc-vision. You should be able to boot that using "fastboot boot /tmp/postmarketOS-export/boot.img-htc-vision"
If you want to help out, there's a couple things you could do!
– document on the wiki page everything you feel would be helpful to anybody who wants to try this
– get graphics acceleration working with hybris. This is needed for Plasma mobile to run and shouldn't be too hard. You just need to make sure that the relevant hybris packages are installed (GLES, EGL, maybe others) and that the android drivers are in the right place (the relevant binaries should be in this repo: https://github.com/milaq/android_device_htc_vision).
One more thing: for all I know you'd be the first person other than myself to try this on a Desire Z, so definitely let me know if you can get it to boot! I've actually never tried the SD card installation, so it would be nice to hear if that works, and also if the on-screen keyboard (to type in the disk encryption password works).

mberndt said:
One more thing: for all I know you'd be the first person other than myself to try this on a Desire Z, so definitely let me know if you can get it to boot! I've actually never tried the SD card installation, so it would be nice to hear if that works, and also if the on-screen keyboard (to type in the disk encryption password works).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi!
I have pmOS running on my HTC Desire Z and SD card installation works just fine I haven't tested on-screen keyboard so I don't know does that work.
BTW, is there any change this gets mainlined sometime in the future?

Hey jyrithe,
I'm happy to hear that it works for you!
Regarding your question: the SoC is a Qualcomm MSM7230, and the mainline kernel doesn't currently support that. So somebody would have to port the relevant drivers etc. to a modern kernel. I think that this would require access to the serial console, and while that is documented for some Android phones (e. g. many recent Sony Xperia models), the Desire Z doesn't seem to be one of them – at least I haven't been able to find such documentation. I also haven't been able to find public documentation about the actual SoC, and I suspect one would have to figure out how the hardware works by reading the driver code. Given that this is also a rather old SoC at this point, I suspect it's not going to happen. I personally just don't have the time or the knowledge to be able to do this.
Here's a kernel tree that might be of interest though:
https://github.com/msm7x30/android_kernel_qcom_msm7x30
That one is based on Linux 4.4, so it's a much newer version than the 3.0.101 kernel that I used for the pmOS port. Based on the name it seems to support the SoC, but it doesn't include support for the specific board – one would have to write a devicetree file to make that work.

Hi I am trying to boot it up with the HTC Desire Z. I boot up nicely with the nice logo, but after that everything is black. I use "westron" in the pmbootstrap installation and I use android zip recovery way to do this, using with the cwm 6.0.5.
I hope you can help me. I love your energy into this project!!

Hi Dr.RR,
I haven't done any work on this device lately, and I don't plan to. The problem is that afaik there's really only one “useful” UI to run on postmarketOS, and it's KDE plasma mobile. But it's too large to fit on the system partition of this device, so it's impossible to install it until LVM support is in place (this allows to create a root file system that spans several flash partitions, i. e. system and userdata partitions). If you want to get your hands dirty, check this out: https://gitlab.com/postmarketOS/pmbootstrap/issues/60 . (sdcard installations aren't affected by this, but I currently don't have a spare).