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If Nexus S (2?) has similar hardware to Galaxy S, is it easy to port 2.3?

Even though I have followed dev/porting for 8 months starting with HTC Touch, I have little knowledge of how it is actually done. So here's my question to the developers.
We all know that Nexus S (2?) will have Gingerbread 2.3. Looking at the rumored specs and model number, it seems that Nexus S is a slight upgrade from Galaxy S.
Assuming most of the hardware is identical to Galaxy S, how easy is it to port 2.3 to Epic 4G, once Galaxy S becomes available?
Specifically, what is needed to bake a new 2.3 rom? Do you need to reverse engineer like what devs did on HTC WM devices? Or is it a straight port? I suspect it's somewhere in between but want to hear from you.
(If necessary, please move this to android development forum.)

The simple answer to this (which has been answered in other threads already if you looked) is no its won't be easy.

Also, the Nexus S is rumored and pretty much guaranteed to launch with a dual core processor. The rumor is that they delayed the device and gingerbread to implement this, since it will be google's new flagship device and has to be cutting edge. Everyone knows that dual core processors are set to hit the market within the first couple months of 2011 anyway, so releasing an old generation processor in a flagship google phone just makes no sense.
So no, it will not be easy to port from the Nexus S. It will not only have a completely different processor, but will also probably only be a GSM phone.

muyoso said:
but will also probably only be a GSM phone.
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I agree and think this is the bigger problem (for the Epic at least).
Sure would be nice if the folks at Google would release at one clean Google device for each carrier. I'd be on it in a heart beat.

vansmack said:
I agree and think this is the bigger problem (for the Epic at least).
Sure would be nice if the folks at Google would release at one clean Google device for each carrier. I'd be on it in a heart beat.
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Yes that would be nice if they did that.I am surprised they are even doing another google phone by the way it sounded when they stopped marketing the nexus 1 that had no interest in doing another google branded phone.

muyoso said:
Also, the Nexus S is rumored and pretty much guaranteed to launch with a dual core processor. The rumor is that they delayed the device and gingerbread to implement this, since it will be google's new flagship device and has to be cutting edge. Everyone knows that dual core processors are set to hit the market within the first couple months of 2011 anyway, so releasing an old generation processor in a flagship google phone just makes no sense.
So no, it will not be easy to port from the Nexus S. It will not only have a completely different processor, but will also probably only be a GSM phone.
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Those are just rumors, all of the official specs that have come out say it will be a 1.2ghz hummingbird. The dual core 1ghz orion chip is definitely on the horizon but I highly doubt they will be able to get it in at the last minute, and there's a good chance we won't see it in phones until late next year. All rumors of a dual core Nexus S have had no credibility with their sources.
That said, if this turns out to be a dual core phone and gingerbread turns out to be optimized for dual cores, a port will probably be very difficult. But if it's just a 1.2ghz hummingbird then it would just be a matter of getting the CDMA radio working.

LucJoe said:
Those are just rumors, all of the official specs that have come out say it will be a 1.2ghz hummingbird. The dual core 1ghz orion chip is definitely on the horizon but I highly doubt they will be able to get it in at the last minute, and there's a good chance we won't see it in phones until late next year. All rumors of a dual core Nexus S have had no credibility with their sources.
That said, if this turns out to be a dual core phone and gingerbread turns out to be optimized for dual cores, a port will probably be very difficult. But if it's just a 1.2ghz hummingbird then it would just be a matter of getting the CDMA radio working.
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The reason that I think he has to have a dual core in it is as follows:
If it has a 1.2 ghz hummingbird processor, BFD. It immediately launches and is mediocre. Nothing exciting at all about it.
If it launches as the first dual core phone, it is the top of the line phone worthy of being branded as a Google flagship device.
Also, if it just had a 1.2 ghz hummingbird processor, what is the holdup? It is no different from phones released months ago. Also, if its a 1.2 Ghz processor, it will be eclipsed within a matter of a month or two performance wise by Tegra 2 and dual core snapdragon processors. Basically, it would be an embarassing flagship device. The original Nexus is still to this day a damn good phone that is near the top of the pack of android phones performance wise, and it is a year old.

muyoso said:
The reason that I think he has to have a dual core in it is as follows:
If it has a 1.2 ghz hummingbird processor, BFD. It immediately launches and is mediocre. Nothing exciting at all about it.
If it launches as the first dual core phone, it is the top of the line phone worthy of being branded as a Google flagship device.
Also, if it just had a 1.2 ghz hummingbird processor, what is the holdup? It is no different from phones released months ago. Also, if its a 1.2 Ghz processor, it will be eclipsed within a matter of a month or two performance wise by Tegra 2 and dual core snapdragon processors. Basically, it would be an embarassing flagship device. The original Nexus is still to this day a damn good phone that is near the top of the pack of android phones performance wise, and it is a year old.
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You are fully aware the the Tegra 2 do not even exceed the hummingbird in gpu or cpu performance right? Im just saying cause it would suck if you didn't know what you're talking about.
Plus gingerbread will have HW acceleration, putting gpu performance on a step for the overall fluidity of the gui. So again... what's faster?

Really? I assumed it would greatly ourperform. Where did u get your facts.
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InfDaMarvel said:
Really? I assumed it would greatly ourperform. Where did u get your facts.
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I'm trying to find the article again, but i know they were close but Tegra 2 did not outperform the hummingbird. Apparently now they optimized the platform more.
Don't get me wrong i love nvidia, that's all i've purchased and stayed with them even thou they still dont have a decent dx11 card that doesnt need 2 power supplies. But they really need to step up and their CEO needs to wattch what he says and deliver more.
Here's a quote "On the 3D side, Nvidia says it has doubled the performance of the initial Tegra, resulting in a peak speed of 90 million triangles per second. This level is well beyond the performance of any mobile processor shipping or even sampling today." Hummingbird has the same exact performance. And CPU performance is a very interesting area. Anyway the GPU performance is almost par with the Hummingbird leading maybe by 3-5%

apatcas said:
I'm trying to find the article again, but i know they were close but Tegra 2 did not outperform the hummingbird. Apparently now they optimized the platform more.
Don't get me wrong i love nvidia, that's all i've purchased and stayed with them even thou they still dont have a decent dx11 card that doesnt need 2 power supplies. But they really need to step up and their CEO needs to wattch what he says and deliver more.
Here's a quote "On the 3D side, Nvidia says it has doubled the performance of the initial Tegra, resulting in a peak speed of 90 million triangles per second. This level is well beyond the performance of any mobile processor shipping or even sampling today." Hummingbird has the same exact performance. And CPU performance is a very interesting area. Anyway the GPU performance is almost par with the Hummingbird leading maybe by 3-5%
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Since Tegra 2 is dual core and android does not have 2 core support till Gingerbread (Actually I don't think it even supports cortex A9 till gingerbread)..so if they ran 1 core vs 1 core I'd see a hummingbird win against a Tegra 2..but if Tegra 2 is running dual core (and optimized for it) it should win...but by that analogy Orion would then be superior.

gTen said:
Since Tegra 2 is dual core and android does not have 2 core support till Gingerbread (Actually I don't think it even supports cortex A9 till gingerbread)..so if they ran 1 core vs 1 core I'd see a hummingbird win against a Tegra 2..but if Tegra 2 is running dual core (and optimized for it) it should win...but by that analogy Orion would then be superior.
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Not to mention that Tegra 2 does 1080P video recording. So yes, releasing a google flagship phone that within one month is eclipsed by LG with the first Tegra 2 phone, would be embarrassing. The Nexus 1 set the standard for almost a year, before the Galaxy S line came out. If the Nexus 2 can only set the standard for under a month, that would be stupid. Therefore, it is easy to conclude that the rumors of the Nexus S having a dual core are most likely true. Doesn't mean it has to be the Orion, but it would be awesome if it was.

Tegra 2 is a Cortex A9 CPU... as is the Samsung Orion and the TI OMAP4xxx chips. They accomplish 2.5 instructions per MHz as opposed to the 2 instructions per MHz in the Cortex A8 Hummingbird, and that's not counting improvements to instruction efficiency (getting more done with less instructions.) Add to that improvements such as out of order instruction handling and dual-channel memory support and Cortex A9 chips are head and shoulders above Cortex A8.
The only reason Tegra 2 wouldn't outperform Hummingbird significantly is, as mentioned, lack of dual-core support in current builds of Android, and the nVidia GPU which is, surprisingly, only just about on par with Hummingbird's PowerVR SGX540.
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Electrofreak said:
Tegra 2 is a Cortex A9 CPU... as is the Samsung Orion and the TI OMAP4xxx chips. They accomplish 2.5 instructions per MHz as opposed to the 2 instructions per MHz in the Cortex A8 Hummingbird, and that's not counting improvements to instruction efficiency (getting more done with less instructions.) Add to that improvements such as out of order instruction handling and dual-channel memory support and Cortex A9 chips are head and shoulders above Cortex A8.
The only reason Tegra 2 wouldn't outperform Hummingbird significantly is, as mentioned, lack of dual-core support in current builds of Android, and the nVidia GPU which is, surprisingly, only just about on par with Hummingbird's PowerVR SGX540.
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Click to collapse
OK here's facts dudes. Tegra sucks... really please get it.
Tegra250 based Toshiba AC100 Running Neocore Benchmark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJav9ns6b4o

apatcas said:
OK here's facts dudes. Tegra sucks... really please get it.
Tegra250 based Toshiba AC100 Running Neocore Benchmark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJav9ns6b4o
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I'm not sure that triangles per second is accurate to describe performance.
Still, if you want an article:
http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=17125
The Hummingbird has memory bandwidth limitations that I don't think the Tegra 250 will. Lets wait and see.

apatcas said:
OK here's facts dudes. Tegra sucks... really please get it.
Tegra250 based Toshiba AC100 Running Neocore Benchmark
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uJav9ns6b4o
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's the facts dude, and try to get this; Tegra2 does not, in fact, suck. You just posted a video of it being benchmarked on a netbook running Android 2.1 which cannot make full use of Tegra2's dual-core CPU. Secondly, neocore is a GPU test, not a CPU test. We already discussed the fact that the Tegra2 GPU is only just about on par with the SGX540. Thirdly, that test is being run at a signifcantly higher resolution than a mobile device would run, and frankly, considering this, the score isn't bad.
Fail, man, fail.
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sauron0101 said:
I'm not sure that triangles per second is accurate to describe performance.
Still, if you want an article:
http://alienbabeltech.com/main/?p=17125
The Hummingbird has memory bandwidth limitations that I don't think the Tegra 250 will. Lets wait and see.
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Click to collapse
I would also like to point out that I wrote the article that sauron0101 just linked. It's also posted on my blog (linked in my signature) posted back in March. Tegra2 does feature dual-channel memory support as part of the Cortex A9 architecture, which is a significant advantage.
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Electrofreak said:
I would also like to point out that I wrote the article that sauron0101 just linked. It's also posted on my blog (linked in my signature) posted back in March. Tegra2 does feature dual-channel memory support as part of the Cortex A9 architecture, which is a significant advantage.
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Any idea how fast the other Arm Cortex A9s are compared to the 250?
- We know that the SGX540 will be in the TI OMAP 4 series; probably not bandwidth limited - I am surprised that they did not opt for the SGX545
- The Samsung Orion series has Mail 400 (unknown performance)
- The Snapdragon (A8 unless Qualcomm opts to keep the name "Snapdragon for its A9 CPUs) will have a new generation of Adreno 300 graphics
Unknown if we will see this on mobile
- Marvell also has a new SOC
Also interesting is Samsung's Netbook roadmap, which uses the same SOCs on a phone:
Sorry if all of this is a bit off topic, but it is worth looking at what everyone has.
Edit: Qualcomm is keeping the Snapdragon name for the A9 processors.

Does no one see i was talking about Gpu perfomance? That's what's gonna matter in Gingerbread. And that's running 1024x600 on that res Galaxy tab is around 53 fps. It's the same thing that Vista started doing with HW accel so u understand.

Just what you always wanted - 2400 page processor manual!

I'm probably the only person on this planet that would ever download a 20.5-meg, 2426-page document titled "S5PC110 RISC Microprocessor User's Manual", but if there are other hardware freaks out there interested, here you go:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=repository&id=644&c=samsung_s5pc110_microprocessor_user_manual_1.00
As you may or may not know, the S5PC110, better known as Hummingbird, is the SoC (System on a Chip) that is the brain of your Epic. Now, when you have those moments when you really just gotta know the memory buffer size for your H.264 encoder or are dying to pore over a block diagram of your SGX540 GPU architecture, you can!
( Note: It does get a little bit dry at parts. Unless you're an ARM engineer, I suppose. )

Why arent you working on porting CM6 or gingerbread via CM7?? lol

now we can overclock the gpu
/sarcasm

cbusillo said:
Why arent you working on porting CM6 or gingerbread via CM7?? lol
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Hah, because I know exactly squat about Android development. Hardware is more my thing, though if I find some spare time to play around with the Android SDK maybe that can change.
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This actually is really exciting news. RISC architectures in general, especially the ARM instruction set is great and honestly it would so the works a lot of good kicking the chains of x86
Sent from my Nexus S with a keyboard

Interesting - the complete technical design of the Hummingbird chips.
After reading your blog as to how Hummingbird got its extra performance, I still wonder at times - did we make the right choice in getting this phone the Epic 4G (I bought one for $300 off contract and imported it to Canada) knowing that there are going to be ARM Cortex A9 CPUs coming around in just a couple of months? We know that in the real world, Hummingbird is more powerful than Snapdragon and the OMAP 3600 series, while benchmark scores tend to not reflect real world performance.
Performance-wise: It's know that the out of order A9 parts are at least 30% faster clock for clock in real world performance. There will be dual and maybe quad core implementations. What's really up in the air is the graphics performance of the A9 parts. There's now the Power VR SGX 545, the Mali 400, and the Tegra 2.
Edit: There is also the successor, the Mali T-604. I don't expect to see this in a phone in the near future. Nor do I expect the Tegra 3. Maybe close to this time next year though.

sauron0101 said:
Interesting - the complete technical design of the Hummingbird chips.
After reading your blog as to how Hummingbird got its extra performance, I still wonder at times - did we make the right choice in getting this phone the Epic 4G (I bought one for $300 off contract and imported it to Canada) knowing that there are going to be ARM Cortex A9 CPUs coming around in just a couple of months? We know that in the real world, Hummingbird is more powerful than Snapdragon and the OMAP 3600 series, while benchmark scores tend to not reflect real world performance.
Performance-wise: It's know that the out of order A9 parts are at least 30% faster clock for clock in real world performance. There will be dual and maybe quad core implementations. What's really up in the air is the graphics performance of the A9 parts. There's now the Power VR SGX 545, the Mali 400, and the Tegra 2.
Edit: There is also the successor, the Mali T-604. I don't expect to see this in a phone in the near future. Nor do I expect the Tegra 3. Maybe close to this time next year though.
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Your always going to be playing catchup..I personally think the Epic has great hardware for the time...I mean on Samsung's roadmap for 2012/13 is their Aquila processor which is a quad-core 1.2ghz..its going to be endless catchup..every year there will be something that completely over shallows the rest..

gTen said:
Your always going to be playing catchup..I personally think the Epic has great hardware for the time...I mean on Samsung's roadmap for 2012/13 is their Aquila processor which is a quad-core 1.2ghz..its going to be endless catchup..every year there will be something that completely over shallows the rest..
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No, but I mean, if you buy the latest technology when its released, you'll be set for quite some time.
For example, if you were to buy the one of the first Tegra 2 phones, its unlikely that anything is going to be beating that significantly until at least 2012 when the quad core parts begin to emerge.
It takes a year or so from the time that a CPU is announced to the time that it gets deployed in a handset. For example, the Snapdragon was announced in late 2008 and the first phones (HD2) were about a year later. IF you buy an A9 dual core part early on, you should be set for some time.

Well, I got the Epic knowing Tegra 2 was coming in a few months with next-gen performance. I was badly in need of a new phone and the Epic, while not a Cortex A9, is no slouch.
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sauron0101 said:
No, but I mean, if you buy the latest technology when its released, you'll be set for quite some time.
For example, if you were to buy the one of the first Tegra 2 phones, its unlikely that anything is going to be beating that significantly until at least 2012 when the quad core parts begin to emerge.
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Click to collapse
Thats relative, in terms of GPU performance our Hummingbird doesn't do so badly..the GPU the TI chose to pair with the dual core OMAP is effectively a PowerVR SGX540..the Snapdragon that is rumored to be in the dual cores next summer is also on par with our GPU performance...so yes we will loose out to newer hardware..which is to be expected but I wouldn't consider it a slouch either...
It takes a year or so from the time that a CPU is announced to the time that it gets deployed in a handset. For example, the Snapdragon was announced in late 2008 and the first phones (HD2) were about a year later. IF you buy an A9 dual core part early on, you should be set for some time.
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The first phone was a TG01, that said I guarantee you that a year if not less from the first Tegra release there will be a better processor out...its bound to happen..
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..

gTen said:
Thats relative, in terms of GPU performance our Hummingbird doesn't do so badly..the GPU the TI chose to pair with the dual core OMAP is effectively a PowerVR SGX540..the Snapdragon that is rumored to be in the dual cores next summer is also on par with our GPU performance...so yes we will loose out to newer hardware..which is to be expected but I wouldn't consider it a slouch either...
The first phone was a TG01, that said I guarantee you that a year if not less from the first Tegra release there will be a better processor out...its bound to happen..
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..
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AFAIK, dual-core support is only fully supported by Honeycomb. But if you feel like buying into NVIDIA's explanation of Tegra 2 performance, check this out: http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/t...-Multi-core-CPUs-in-Mobile-Devices_Ver1.2.pdf

Electrofreak said:
AFAIK, dual-core support is only fully supported by Honeycomb. But if you feel like buying into NVIDIA's explanation of Tegra 2 performance, check this out: http://www.nvidia.com/content/PDF/t...-Multi-core-CPUs-in-Mobile-Devices_Ver1.2.pdf
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Click to collapse
I see I actually read before that Gingerbread would allow for dual core support but I guess that was delayed to honeycomb...
either way this would mean even if a Tegra based phone comes out it wont be able to utilize both cored until at least mid next year.
I can't open pdfs right now but I read a whitepaper with performance of hummingbird and Tegra 2 compared both on single core and dual core..is that the same one?
One thing though is Nvidia and ATI are quite known for tweaking their gfx cards to perform well on benchmarks...I hope its not the same with their CPUs :/

gTen said:
Edit: Some benchmarks for Tablets:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4067/nvidia-tegra-2-graphics-performance-update
Though I am not sure if its using both cores or not...also Tegra 2 I think buffers at 16bit..while Hummingbird buffers at 24bit..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here are some additional benchmarks comparing the Galaxy Tab to the Viewsonic G Tablet:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4062/samsung-galaxy-tab-the-anandtech-review/5
It's possible that the Tegra 2 isn't optimized yet. Not to mention, Honeycomb will be the release that makes the most of dual cores. However, there are lackluster performance gains in terms of graphics - most of it seems to be purely CPU gains in performance.
I'm not entirely sure that Neocore is representative of real world performance either. It's possible that it may have been optimized for some platforms. Furthermore, I would not be surprised if Neocore gave inflated scores for the Snapdragon and it's Adreno graphics platform. Of course, neither is Quadrant.
I think that real world games like Quake III based games are the way to go, although until we see more graphics demanding games, I suppose that there's little to test (we're expecting more games for Android next year).
Finally, we've gotten to a point for web browsing where its the data connection HSPA+, LTE, or WiMAX that will dictate how fast pages load. It's like upgrading the CPU for a PC. I currently run an overclocked q6600 - if I were to upgrade to say a Sandy Bridge when it comes out next year, I don't expect significant improvements in real world browsing performance.
Eventually, the smartphone market will face the same problem that the PC market does. Apart from us enthusiasts who enjoy benchmarking and overclocking, apart from high end gaming, and perhaps some specialized operations (like video encoding which I do a bit of), you really don't need the latest and greatest CPU or 6+ GB of RAM (which many new desktops come with). Same with high end GPUs. Storage follows the same dilemna. I imagine that as storage grows, I'll be storing FLAC music files instead of AAC, MP3, or OGG, and more video. I will also use my cell phone to replace my USB key drive. Otherwise, there's no need for bigger storage.

gTen said:
I see I actually read before that Gingerbread would allow for dual core support but I guess that was delayed to honeycomb...
either way this would mean even if a Tegra based phone comes out it wont be able to utilize both cored until at least mid next year.
I can't open pdfs right now but I read a whitepaper with performance of hummingbird and Tegra 2 compared both on single core and dual core..is that the same one?
One thing though is Nvidia and ATI are quite known for tweaking their gfx cards to perform well on benchmarks...I hope its not the same with their CPUs :/
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Click to collapse
Gingerbread doesn't have any dual-core optimizations. It has some JIT improvements in addition to some other minor enhancements, but according to rumor, Honeycomb is where it's at, and it's why the major tablet manufacturers are holding off releasing their Tegra 2 tablets until it's released.
And yeah, that paper shows the performance of several different Cortex A8s (including Hummingbird) compared to Tegra 2, and then goes on to compare Tegra 2 single-core performance vs dual.

Electrofreak said:
Gingerbread doesn't have any dual-core optimizations. It has some JIT improvements in addition to some other minor enhancements, but according to rumor, Honeycomb is where it's at, and it's why the major tablet manufacturers are holding off releasing their Tegra 2 tablets until it's released.
And yeah, that paper shows the performance of several different Cortex A8s (including Hummingbird) compared to Tegra 2, and then goes on to compare Tegra 2 single-core performance vs dual.
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I looked at:
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/new...u-will-want-to-buy-a-dual-core-mobile-device/
since I can't access the pdf..does the whitepaper state what version they used to do their tests? for example if they used 2.1 on the sgs and honeycomb on their tests it wouldn't exactly be a fair comparison...do they also put in the actual FPS..not % wise? for example we are capped on the FPS for example...
Lastly, in the test does it say whether the Tegra 2 was dithering at 16bit or 24bit?

gTen said:
I looked at:
http://androidandme.com/2010/11/new...u-will-want-to-buy-a-dual-core-mobile-device/
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I'm one of Taylor's (unofficial) tech consultants, and I spoke with him regarding that article. Though, credit where it's due to Taylor, he's been digging stuff up recently that I don't have a clue about. We've talked about Honeycomb and dual-core tablets, and since Honeycomb will be the first release of Android to support tablets officially, and since Motorola seems to be holding back the release of its Tegra 2 tablet until Honeycomb (quickly checks AndroidAndMe to make sure I haven't said anything Taylor hasn't already said), and rumors say that Honeycomb will have dual-core support, it all makes sense.
But yes, the whitepaper is the one he used to base that article on.
gTen said:
since I can't access the pdf..does the whitepaper state what version they used to do their tests? for example if they used 2.1 on the sgs and honeycomb on their tests it wouldn't exactly be a fair comparison...do they also put in the actual FPS..not % wise? for example we are capped on the FPS for example...
Lastly, in the test does it say whether the Tegra 2 was dithering at 16bit or 24bit?
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Click to collapse
Android 2.2 was used in all of their tests according to the footnotes in the document. While I believe that Android 2.2 is capable of using both cores simultaneously, I don't believe it is capable of threading them separately. But that's just my theory. I'm just going off of what the Gingerbread documentation from Google says; and unfortunately there is no mention of improved multi-core processor support in Gingerbread.
http://developer.android.com/sdk/android-2.3-highlights.html
As for FPS and the dithering... they don't really go there; the whitepaper is clearly focused on CPU performance, and so it features benchmark scores and timed results. I take it all with a pinch of salt anyhow; despite the graphs and such, it's still basically an NVIDIA advertisement.
That said, Taylor has been to one of their expos or whatever you call it, and he's convinced that the Tegra 2 GPU will perform several times better than the SGX 540 in the Galaxy S phones. I'm not so sure I'm convinced... I've seen comparable performance benchmarks come from the LG Tegra 2 phone, but Taylor claims it was an early build with and he's seen even better performance. Time will tell I suppose...
EDIT - As for not being able to access the .pdfs, what are you talking about?! XDA app / browser and Adobe Reader!

Tegra 2 faster than a5, Exynos, Dual-core Snapdragon

I am sick of everyone thinking the upcoming dual-core devices will blow away tegra 2.
Tegra 2 vs Dual Core A5 (Ipad 2)
A lot of talk about Andntech OpenGL benchmark trumping Tegra 2, but what about Stockfish and Benchit Pi where A5 got slaughtered (PC Magazine)? With half the RAM and lower clock I don't see this thing smoking Tegra 2 in all benchmarks, or real life CPU situations.
Tegra 2 vs Exynos (Some Galaxy S2)
Lower benchmarks in Smartbench Gaming. Plus there is early benchmarks of Quadrant scores of 2100 tablets running the Exynos 4210. There is a reason why Samsung Galaxy S2 is including Tegra 2 in some regions.
Androidevolution.."One negative surprise on the S2 so far has been the level of GPU performance. So far, most of the early benchmark shows that Exynos 4210 isn’t up to par when it comes to the GPU performance. This is strange given that Samsung was leading the market when they introduced the previous generation SoC ...... Smartbench 2011 GPU numbers are once again, very disappointing"
Tegra 2 vs Dual Core-Snapdragon (HTC Pyramid)
This thing got smoked in Smartbench with gaming and productivity.
" Their tests confirm that the Pyramid indeed houses a dual-core chip, but the popular Smarbench 2011 shows a CPU and GPU that simply don’t hold up to the Tegra 2 chip found in the LG Optimus 2X and Motorola Atrix 4G"

Yea you're comparing pre-release builds of phones (S2 and Pyramid) with a Tegra 2 which has been out for months? Also, it's sad how poor the Tegra 2 platforms perform compared to the SGX540 which has been out for half a year already and still gets outscored in most benchmarks.
Oh and if you look at the most recent GLBenchmark 2.0 Egypt... Samsung's Exynos scores around 4000 compared to the Xoom's 1300 and Atrix's 2000. Even the original Galaxy S scores higher... around 2400.
Odroid-A Tablet which runs Exynos: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Hardkernel
Xoom and Atrix: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...4&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Motorola
Original Galaxy S: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...=0&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Samsung
And don't even bring up the Ipad 2. That thing has a dual core SGX543 which even in the single core version outperforms the SGX540, which the Tegra 2 can't even beat.
rex-tc said:
I am sick of everyone thinking the upcoming dual-core devices will blow away tegra 2.
Tegra 2 vs Dual Core A5 (Ipad 2)
A lot of talk about Andntech OpenGL benchmark trumping Tegra 2, but what about Stockfish and Benchit Pi where A5 got slaughtered (PC Magazine)? With half the RAM and lower clock I don't see this thing smoking Tegra 2 in all benchmarks, or real life CPU situations.
Tegra 2 vs Exynos (Some Galaxy S2)
Lower benchmarks in Smartbench Gaming. Plus there is early benchmarks of Quadrant scores of 2100 tablets running the Exynos 4210. There is a reason why Samsung Galaxy S2 is including Tegra 2 in some regions.
Androidevolution.."One negative surprise on the S2 so far has been the level of GPU performance. So far, most of the early benchmark shows that Exynos 4210 isn’t up to par when it comes to the GPU performance. This is strange given that Samsung was leading the market when they introduced the previous generation SoC ...... Smartbench 2011 GPU numbers are once again, very disappointing"
Tegra 2 vs Dual Core-Snapdragon (HTC Pyramid)
This thing got smoked in Smartbench with gaming and productivity.
" Their tests confirm that the Pyramid indeed houses a dual-core chip, but the popular Smarbench 2011 shows a CPU and GPU that simply don’t hold up to the Tegra 2 chip found in the LG Optimus 2X and Motorola Atrix 4G"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

****ty deal... I wonder how much software it will take to make it speedy gonzales
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

dinan said:
Yea you're comparing pre-release builds of phones (S2 and Pyramid) with a Tegra 2 which has been out for months? Also, it's sad how poor the Tegra 2 platforms perform compared to the SGX540 which has been out for half a year already and still gets outscored in most benchmarks.
Oh and if you look at the most recent GLBenchmark 2.0 Egypt... Samsung's Exynos scores around 4000 compared to the Xoom's 1300 and Atrix's 2000. Even the original Galaxy S scores higher... around 2400.
Odroid-A Tablet which runs Exynos: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Hardkernel
Xoom and Atrix: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...4&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Motorola
Original Galaxy S: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...=0&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Samsung
And don't even bring up the Ipad 2. That thing has a dual core SGX543 which even in the single core version outperforms the SGX540, which the Tegra 2 can't even beat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ouch well put??? lol

dinan said:
Yea you're comparing pre-release builds of phones (S2 and Pyramid) with a Tegra 2 which has been out for months? Also, it's sad how poor the Tegra 2 platforms perform compared to the SGX540 which has been out for half a year already and still gets outscored in most benchmarks.
Oh and if you look at the most recent GLBenchmark 2.0 Egypt... Samsung's Exynos scores around 4000 compared to the Xoom's 1300 and Atrix's 2000. Even the original Galaxy S scores higher... around 2400.
Odroid-A Tablet which runs Exynos: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Hardkernel
Xoom and Atrix: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...4&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Motorola
Original Galaxy S: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...=0&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Samsung
And don't even bring up the Ipad 2. That thing has a dual core SGX543 which even in the single core version outperforms the SGX540, which the Tegra 2 can't even beat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you freaking kidding me?! You're an idiot mate.
All these devices have different resolutions so obviously your devices with **** resolutions (ie ipad) will have awesome scores.
Dude seriously poor effort.

Nado85 said:
Are you freaking kidding me?! You're an idiot mate.
All these devices have different resolutions so obviously your devices with **** resolutions (ie ipad) will have awesome scores.
Dude seriously poor effort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both the Ipad2 and the Odroid run at higher resolutions than the Atrix, that should make them worse, not better off.
The Xoom is ~30% larger than the ipad2, but that is not enough to explain why the ipad2 is 4 times better
The Odroid is again larger than the Xoom, and that performes 3 times better than the Xoom.

dinan said:
Yea you're comparing pre-release builds of phones (S2 and Pyramid) with a Tegra 2 which has been out for months? Also, it's sad how poor the Tegra 2 platforms perform compared to the SGX540 which has been out for half a year already and still gets outscored in most benchmarks.
Oh and if you look at the most recent GLBenchmark 2.0 Egypt... Samsung's Exynos scores around 4000 compared to the Xoom's 1300 and Atrix's 2000. Even the original Galaxy S scores higher... around 2400.
Odroid-A Tablet which runs Exynos: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Hardkernel
Xoom and Atrix: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...4&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Motorola
Original Galaxy S: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...=0&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Samsung
And don't even bring up the Ipad 2. That thing has a dual core SGX543 which even in the single core version outperforms the SGX540, which the Tegra 2 can't even beat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you know what this points out? That people are VERY stupid and care too much about upcoming technology! Everything people buy ends up being obsolete in about a week or two. Its REALLY sad to see this because these software developers put a lot of time for something that will only be hot for a few weeks and then its yesterdays news. That's why software is getting choppier, and there is no quality backing anymore.
Aside from my *****ing...i do like how that Samsung platform works..quite impressive, i'd like to see what Nvidia will do next. These new technologies have been pushed mad crazy this last year. I think quality and reliability will take a hit quite hard due to the silicon being pushed to the limit of its threshold...we're not too far from that.

Mafisometal said:
... I think quality and reliability will take a hit quite hard due to the silicon being pushed to the limit of its threshold...we're not too far from that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Silicone has a long way to go before it max'es out. The good news is Nvidia has years of quality GPU fabbing and they've got loads of tricks up their sleeves yet.
What Samsung and Qualcomm dont have right now is games & software optimised for their chipsets. This is where the Tegra II is a step a head of the rest..
So don't stress peoples!

tadjiik said:
Both the Ipad2 and the Odroid run at higher resolutions than the Atrix, that should make them worse, not better off..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Also, the Atrix is also running Android 2.2, where as the Odroid is on 2.3 which is optimised for dual core CPU's.....
We will all see a big difference when Moto release 2.3 / 2.4 for the Atrix.

I can confirm the SGX540 (iphone 4 graphics processor) beast tegra 2. i know the resolution is lower, however the smoothness and especially quick scrolling on jam packed websites like non moble youtube for example show its smoother.
i have not done a bench yet. i am more than happy with my atrix. actaully i just got an amd zacate fusion e350 and its on part with my atrix dual core yet eats 18watts. actaully, the atrix plays less choppy than the zacate.
however, its not as fast 'yet' as the sxg540 and OMG i bet the SGX543 is awesome.

The iPhone 5 had a higher resolution then the atrix, yet scored 15-16 fps in tests where the atrix gets 48-50. The tegra 2 I'd very future proof for s few.months especially considering that man manufacturers are still making single core phones.
To see what optimization can do. Download fruit slice, and compare it to fruit ninja tegra HD.
Sent from my MB860 using XDA App

Techcruncher said:
The iPhone 5 had a higher resolution then the atrix, yet scored 15-16 fps in tests where the atrix gets 48-50. The tegra 2 I'd very future proof for s few.months especially considering that man manufacturers are still making single core phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you refering to the iphone4 here? That has a SGX535, which is worse than Tegra2, that is correct. But it is still not beating SGX540 (Samsung galaxy s), they seem to be about on par, according to glbenchmark.com. If you were refering to the ipad2, that beats tegra2 in just about anything.
To see what optimization can do. Download fruit slice, and compare it to fruit ninja tegra HD.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And what proof do you have that those games are not able to play on non-tegra phones or (more likely) could be optimized just as well or better for non-tegra phones? Throwing up a game that has not really been tested on non-tegra phones does not prove anything.
To throw the ball back, if you want to see what optimizations can do for Exynos do a search for "engadget exynos gdc", which has a 1080p 3D demo @60 fps (I am unable to post links...)

lol nice try.
oh and "your devices"? I like how you assume I'm an apple fanboy when I'm actually a die-hard android user... i HAVE an atrix, a nexus S, a nexus one. What phones do you have? and the benchmark scores I posted were all between android devices so I'm not sure where you're seeing these "awesome scores" for the ipad?
come back when you actually have something to contribute.
Nado85 said:
Are you freaking kidding me?! You're an idiot mate.
All these devices have different resolutions so obviously your devices with **** resolutions (ie ipad) will have awesome scores.
Dude seriously poor effort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

rex-tc said:
I am sick of everyone thinking the upcoming dual-core devices will blow away tegra 2.
Tegra 2 vs Dual Core A5 (Ipad 2)
A lot of talk about Andntech OpenGL benchmark trumping Tegra 2, but what about Stockfish and Benchit Pi where A5 got slaughtered (PC Magazine)? With half the RAM and lower clock I don't see this thing smoking Tegra 2 in all benchmarks, or real life CPU situations.
Tegra 2 vs Exynos (Some Galaxy S2)
Lower benchmarks in Smartbench Gaming. Plus there is early benchmarks of Quadrant scores of 2100 tablets running the Exynos 4210. There is a reason why Samsung Galaxy S2 is including Tegra 2 in some regions.
Androidevolution.."One negative surprise on the S2 so far has been the level of GPU performance. So far, most of the early benchmark shows that Exynos 4210 isn’t up to par when it comes to the GPU performance. This is strange given that Samsung was leading the market when they introduced the previous generation SoC ...... Smartbench 2011 GPU numbers are once again, very disappointing"
Tegra 2 vs Dual Core-Snapdragon (HTC Pyramid)
This thing got smoked in Smartbench with gaming and productivity.
" Their tests confirm that the Pyramid indeed houses a dual-core chip, but the popular Smarbench 2011 shows a CPU and GPU that simply don’t hold up to the Tegra 2 chip found in the LG Optimus 2X and Motorola Atrix 4G"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really need to wait for benchmarks on the EVO 3D to come out.
And you really need to see a finalized and optimized (Driver wise) S2.
To make a fair comparison.

dinan said:
Yea you're comparing pre-release builds of phones (S2 and Pyramid) with a Tegra 2 which has been out for months? Also, it's sad how poor the Tegra 2 platforms perform compared to the SGX540 which has been out for half a year already and still gets outscored in most benchmarks.
Oh and if you look at the most recent GLBenchmark 2.0 Egypt... Samsung's Exynos scores around 4000 compared to the Xoom's 1300 and Atrix's 2000. Even the original Galaxy S scores higher... around 2400.
Odroid-A Tablet which runs Exynos: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Hardkernel
Xoom and Atrix: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...4&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Motorola
Original Galaxy S: http://www.glbenchmark.com/result.j...=0&version=all&certified_only=2&brand=Samsung
And don't even bring up the Ipad 2. That thing has a dual core SGX543 which even in the single core version outperforms the SGX540, which the Tegra 2 can't even beat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again more OpenGL benchmarks that prove nothing, nothing more than a fillrate test at best. The Tegra 2 has already proven to be better at productivity and a has twice the RAM as the ipad 2. Which means higher res textures and with the better CPU better physics with PhysX. SGX is nothing but a tile renderer that fakes what a true T&L engine produces. When you start having more CPU centric games with high res textures we will see who will prevail. Plus the toolset of NVIDIA is MULTIPLE times better and we are already seeing straight PC ports.

in the paper,,tegra 2 should be the weakest among them..
in fact, on the test, tegra 2 is not fall behind.
i still think exynos, a5, c2 snapdragon's performance will be better than tegra2, just the matter of time.
well, tegra2 is good enough. but tegra3 and tegra4 are the ones that take the lead.

Well until those "CPU centric" games you're talking about actually come out, the only thing we can compare it to is what's out there right now. If you want to see the Tegra 2 get shamed by the iPad 2's SGX543... http://www.anandtech.com/show/4216/...rmance-explored-powervr-sgx543mp2-benchmarked
rex-tc said:
Again more OpenGL benchmarks that prove nothing, nothing more than a fillrate test at best. The Tegra 2 has already proven to be better at productivity and a has twice the RAM as the ipad 2. Which means higher res textures and with the better CPU better physics with PhysX. SGX is nothing but a tile renderer that fakes what a true T&L engine produces. When you start having more CPU centric games with high res textures we will see who will prevail. Plus the toolset of NVIDIA is MULTIPLE times better and we are already seeing straight PC ports.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

rex-tc said:
Again more OpenGL benchmarks that prove nothing, nothing more than a fillrate test at best.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The tests are comprehensive and test different parts of the chip/driver. There is a few "real-life" tests, as well as a bunch of synthetic tests.
The Tegra 2 has already proven to be better at productivity and a has twice the RAM as the ipad 2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wait, so the "productivity" tests do prove something Well, I belive the ipad is clocked somewhat lower than T2, so no real surprise there. Trying to differentiate between different Dual-A9 cores might be hard, though, since they are all based on the same design. The only thing I could see Tegra2 had donewas the inclusion of a hardware JPEG decoder on the Tegra2, that might skew the productivity tests a little. On the other hand, they are not including NEON, so for tests that include that, they might be at a loss.
SGX is nothing but a tile renderer that fakes what a true T&L engine produces.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you even know what a tile renderer is? It is not "faking" what a true "T&L engine" produces, it is about not doing rasterization and fragment processing until frames are swapped, thus enabling the use of only a small render buffer (a tile). The only thing it "fakes" is that overdrawn pixels are not fragment processed - but this is also done on non-tilebased to a lesser degree (with early-Z).
By the way, "T&L engine"? There is no hardware "T&L engine" anymore - all is done through shaders nowadays.
When you start having more CPU centric games with high res textures we will see who will prevail.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If we are talking CPU centric, then Tegra2 will be at a loss because of its lack of NEON (which I belive Exynos supports). I am not sure if the Apple has it, but that is still comparing apples and oranges (different OS) when it comes to benchmarks.
Plus the toolset of NVIDIA is MULTIPLE times better and we are already seeing straight PC ports.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Could you point me to the toolset? When I googled "tegra2 toolset", this post was the first...
Are we seeing PC ports? Could you mention some names/examples? Any reason why they will not run on non-tegra2?

SlimJ87D said:
You really need to wait for benchmarks on the EVO 3D to come out.
And you really need to see a finalized and optimized (Driver wise) S2.
To make a fair comparison.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No no no it's important to cherry-pick and declare victory as soon as possible.

I think people need to wait for release of the actual phones before comparing, I mean htc havnt even announced the pyramid an people think its crap because of its in development benchmark, of course scores are going to be crap if its still in development?
Sent from my thumbs

Atrix has an 8 core GPU

Yep so I just found out that the atrix has an 8 core GPU thanks to the forum members below.
This seems amazing considering the SGSII has a quad core GPU

Check this out:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html

bigdog_nick said:
Check this out:
http://www.nvidia.com/object/tegra-2.html
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OMG 8 cores?
So it is better than the SGS2

8 core GPU

Seems like so. From what i'm reading just now, the SGSII has a Mali-400MP4 which is only a quad core. Wow, Nvidia you outdid yourself. lol

Why dont they advertise the 8 core GPU?

RacecarBMW said:
Why dont they advertise the 8 core GPU?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
probably cause not many people know or even care what it is and moto and att didnt see it as a selling point

Dang, and to think I was always of the opinion that the Galaxy S phones had more GPU power than my Atrix.. Damn you AT&T.

not surprised as it's a geforce core

brian2220 said:
probably cause not many people know or even care what it is and moto and att didnt see it as a selling point
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well they advertise the dual core CPU

Says it supports 12mp primary camera?

The next tegra is a quad core cpu, 12 core gpu. Its going to be a monster.

RacecarBMW said:
well they advertise the dual core CPU
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that is always a big selling point in todays market

RacecarBMW said:
OMG 8 cores?
So it is better than the SGS2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Holy Moly. 8 core GPU?
And the SGSII only has 4 core GPU?
The Atrix wins overall. No question about it.
[/s]

Extra cores do not necessarily translate to win. Tegra is awesome, but has its limits, which are far more apparent than in the new Galaxy 2, which appears to be the most powerful Android phone to date.

YAY! 8 CORE GPU! what ever that means? lol

as far as i know. the SGS2 oxynes or whatever its called is more powerful than tegra 2.
not my much tho.
however Nvidia has an advantage of Tegra zone. games specific to take advantages of the Tegra 2.
and that alone is way better than playing the same game the nexus S plays well only smoother.
this makes Tegra 2 a better GPU imho hands down. but not the most powerful.

jivemaster said:
Extra cores do not necessarily translate to win. Tegra is awesome, but has its limits, which are far more apparent than in the new Galaxy 2, which appears to be the most powerful Android phone to date.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What drugs are you on? SGS II? The most powerful to date? No ways Laydee
The Atrix hasn't even shown its true colours yet. Wait till Gingerbread is released. This will be the REAL test.
Only then will it be clear whether Atrix or SGS II is the better handset.

ll_l_x_l_ll said:
as far as i know. the SGS2 oxynes or whatever its called is more powerful than tegra 2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its called Exynos, and NO, the reports out there peg the Tegra 2 to be better clock for clock.
Why do you think Samsung overclocked the Exynos to 1.2Ghz? To be competitive, because at 1Ghz it wasn't.
Samsung has won the Quadrant war for the moment, but lets see what the Tegra 2 overclocked to 1.2Ghz (unlock that bootloader damit!) and with AOS 2.3.3 can do. And the hardware war can't be won on just a SAMOLED+ screen thats still can't be viewed in direct sunlight, and is heavily pixelated at 4.3" & 800x480 resolution (I certainly prefer qHD).

The Geforce ULV GPU in the Tegra 2 SoC is based on the Nvidia Geforce 6 series GPU architecture from 2004.
Computer GPU's at the time where still using "pipelines" before introduction of "unified shaders" (those are easier to be called multi-core) with the release of the nvidia G80 GPU in late 2006.
Piplines architecture has dedicated instructions shaders (nvidia like to call them cores for marketing reasons and to piss off Intel!) for each of pixel and vertex processing tasks. A GPU of this kind can't help itself if the load was heavier at one side of those tasks.
Where in "unified shaders" architecture those shaders can morph to handle any instructions tasks based on the load.
So it's more correctly to say the nvidia GPU in the Atrix has 8 shaders, But and it's a big BUT.. 4 of them must be preserved for the pixel processing and the other 4 must be preserved for vertex processing.

NVIDIA Tegra 4 vs Nexus 10 processor

They've unveiled it today
http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/06/nvidia-tegra-4-official/
and apparently it's much powerful and faster than the eqynox on the nexus 10, but I don't know that much about this kind of tech, I'm probably finally going to buy the Nexus 10 this week if Samsung doesn't unveil a more powerful tablet, so I was wondering if this Tegra 4 processor is worth waiting for until it's implemented on a tablet.

May TEGRA 3 Rest in Peace ...
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Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

Yes that thing is packing heat. Best case, the next device with a tegra 4 will come out next Christmas. Unless they've been hiding something.

cuguy said:
Yes that thing is packing heat. Best case, the next device with a tegra 4 will come out next Christmas. Unless they've been hiding something.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It will be out somewhere b/w June and August maybe..
It will not take that long ...
Sent from my GT-I9100 using Tapatalk 2

i think march....mark my words

Their browser test is having the Nexus 10 run Chrome while the Tegra runs AOSP. In my eyes that makes it a 100% unfair comparison.
Between bad experiences with Tegra 2 and 3 (Atrix/TF700) and their requirement that Tegra optimized games not run on other SoC vendors without any real reason other than because they can, I cant even consider a mobile Nvidia device. All they're good for is keeping the more reputable chip makers on their toes.

yes it's nice

Would be interesting to see this with both devices running the AOSP browser! From my experience it is much faster than the current chrome version (which still is version 18 on android, compared to 23 on desktop). Maybe the Tegra4 would be faster aswell, but not that much.
Everything on my N10 is extremely fast and fluid, so I wouldn't wait for whenever the first Tegra4 devices will be available. Plus its Nexus so you know what you are buying!

Jotokun said:
Their browser test is having the Nexus 10 run Chrome while the Tegra runs AOSP. In my eyes that makes it a 100% unfair comparison.
Between bad experiences with Tegra 2 and 3 (Atrix/TF700) and their requirement that Tegra optimized games not run on other SoC vendors without any real reason other than because they can, I cant even consider a mobile Nvidia device. All they're good for is keeping the more reputable chip makers on their toes.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed, they're making an Apples and Pears comparison that was undoubtedly set to show the new processor in a good light. It's only to be expected, it is a sales pitch after all. It will no doubt be a faster chip though.
Sent from my Nexus 10 using XDA Premium HD app

I would much rather see a couple benchmark runs myself. A time comparison of a web browser is no way to test the power of a new chipset.
Still, I would expect Tegra 4 to be WAY WAY WAY more powerful than the Exynos 5250. Both devices use the A15 architecture, and Tegra 4 has twice as many CPU cores as we have. This alone is already a big boost in multithreaded apps. Then look at the GPU where you cant even compare the two at all except by end result numbers. They are just far too different. We have 4 GPU cores, Tegra 4 has 72 GPU cores. But those cores are designed far differently and not nearly as powerful per core. It is all about the companies definition of what a GPU "core" is. And then you have a smaller process node as well, which by itself already promises to use less power than the larger process node the Exynos 5250 uses.
I would honestly expect the Tegra 4 chipset to completely destroy our tablet in terms of performance, but a much more fair comparison would be to compare the Tegra 4 to the Exynos 5 quad. Those two are actually designed to compete with each other.

If you want to compare exynos and tegra 4 then wait for exynos 5450 (quad a15) which should come with galaxy s4 no of cores makes a difference here t4 is quad but early gl benchmarks show that A6X and exynos 5250 have a better GPU

First Tegra 4 Tablet running stock android 4.2:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/7/3845608/vizio-10-inch-tablet-combines-tegra-4-android-thin-body

Lets hope and pray Vizio managed to add microSD capability to it. Free of Nexus restraints, it should be doable, but since it is running stock JB, the storage would have to be mounted as USB (?) . So far this Vizio 10" was the most exciting Android development out of CES. We have few more our of Press events scheduled in Vegas and then it will be all over

rashid11 said:
Lets hope and pray Vizio managed to add microSD capability to it. Free of Nexus restraints, it should be doable, but since it is running stock JB, the storage would have to be mounted as USB (?) . So far this Vizio 10" was the most exciting Android development out of CES. We have few more our of Press events scheduled in Vegas and then it will be all over
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont expect the Nexus advantage of up-to-date software or timely updates.

EniGmA1987 said:
I would much rather see a couple benchmark runs myself. A time comparison of a web browser is no way to test the power of a new chipset.
Still, I would expect Tegra 4 to be WAY WAY WAY more powerful than the Exynos 5250. Both devices use the A15 architecture, and Tegra 4 has twice as many CPU cores as we have. This alone is already a big boost in multithreaded apps. Then look at the GPU where you cant even compare the two at all except by end result numbers. They are just far too different. We have 4 GPU cores, Tegra 4 has 72 GPU cores. But those cores are designed far differently and not nearly as powerful per core. It is all about the companies definition of what a GPU "core" is. And then you have a smaller process node as well, which by itself already promises to use less power than the larger process node the Exynos 5250 uses.
I would honestly expect the Tegra 4 chipset to completely destroy our tablet in terms of performance, but a much more fair comparison would be to compare the Tegra 4 to the Exynos 5 quad. Those two are actually designed to compete with each other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
look at the new iphone only 2 cores (different architecure) beating the higher clock double cored galaxy s3 in some disciplines..
this presentation is scientifically SO SO irrelevant especially becasue they use different software.. I LOL SO HARD at ppl thinking this is anywhere near to be comparable

schnip said:
look at the new iphone only 2 cores (different architecure) beating the higher clock double cored galaxy s3 in some disciplines..
this presentation is scientifically SO SO irrelevant especially becasue they use different software.. I LOL SO HARD at ppl thinking this is anywhere near to be comparable
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The new iPhone 5 doesnt use the same ARM architecture are the S3 though, it is a custom design. So those can be compared against each other fine to see which architecture is better. And if a slower clock speed CPU gets better scores then we know it is a superior design. This is the basis of all benchmarking. If we were only allowed to compare the exact same architectures together then we wouldnt learn anything.
Tegra4 uses a (probably slightly modified) A15 core, and the Exynos 5xxx uses a fairly stock A15 core. So a higher clocked A15 should beat out a lower clocked A15 in a direct comparison no matter what. Then when you throw 2 additional cores on top it should always win in multithreaded benchmarks too. Seems pretty common sense to me.
The main difference will be in the graphics side of things, where Nvidia has their own designed GPU compared to Samsung's use of the Mali GPU's.
You can still compare them together just fine, it just need to be both of them on the same browser if there is a browser comparison being done. In this PR release, Nvidia skewed the results like all companies do. So we cant really see the difference between the two from those pictures and we need to wait for 3rd party review sites to do proper testing to see actual results. Yet we can still estimate performance plenty fine since we have a baseline of the architecture already with this tablet.

"Tegra 4 more powerful than Nexus 10"... well duh! It's a new chip just unveiled by nvidia that won't show up in any on sale devices for at least a couple of months. Tablet and smartphone tech is moving very quickly at the moment, nvidia will hold the android performance crown for a couple of months and then someone (probably samsung or qualcomm) will come along with something even more powerful. Such is the nature of the tablet/smartphone market. People that hold off on buying because there is something better on the horizon will be waiting forever because there will always be a better device just a few months down the line!

EniGmA1987 said:
The new iPhone 5 doesnt use the same ARM architecture are the S3 though, it is a custom design. So those can be compared against each other fine to see which architecture is better. And if a slower clock speed CPU gets better scores then we know it is a superior design. This is the basis of all benchmarking. If we were only allowed to compare the exact same architectures together then we wouldnt learn anything.
Tegra4 uses a (probably slightly modified) A15 core, and the Exynos 5xxx uses a fairly stock A15 core. So a higher clocked A15 should beat out a lower clocked A15 in a direct comparison no matter what. Then when you throw 2 additional cores on top it should always win in multithreaded benchmarks too. Seems pretty common sense to me.
The main difference will be in the graphics side of things, where Nvidia has their own designed GPU compared to Samsung's use of the Mali GPU's.
You can still compare them together just fine, it just need to be both of them on the same browser if there is a browser comparison being done. In this PR release, Nvidia skewed the results like all companies do. So we cant really see the difference between the two from those pictures and we need to wait for 3rd party review sites to do proper testing to see actual results. Yet we can still estimate performance plenty fine since we have a baseline of the architecture already with this tablet.
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That was kind of his point.
I don't think anyone is denying that the tegra will be faster. What's being disputed here is just how much faster it is. Personally, I don't think it'll be enough to notice in everyday use. Twice the cores does not automatically a faster CPU make, you need software that can properly take advantage and even then is not a huge plus in everyday tasks. Also, in the past Nvidia has made pretty crappy chips due to compromise. Good example being how the tegra 2 lacked neon support. The only concrete advantages I see are more cores and a higher clock rate.

Based on the hype : performance ratio of both Tegra 2 & 3 I wouldn't have high hopes until I see legit benchmark results.
What does seem promising though, is the fact that they are making more significant changes than from T2 to T3, such as dual channel memory (finally after 1-2 years of all other SoCs having it -.-) and the GPU cores are different too.
Still, the GPU has always been the weakest point of Tegra, so I still don't think it can beat an overclocked T-604 by much, even though this time around they will not be the first ones to debut a next-gen SoC. Given the A15 architecture they can't really screw up the CPU even if they wanted to, so that should be significantly faster than the Exynos 5 Dual.
I've also just read this article on Anandtech about power consumption and the SoC in the Nexus 10 consumes multiple times as much power as other tablet chipsets, making me wonder how nVidia plans to solve the battery life issue with 2 times as many cores and a (seemingly) beefier GPU, not even mentioning implementation in phones..

freshlysqueezed said:
First Tegra 4 Tablet running stock android 4.2:
http://www.theverge.com/2013/1/7/3845608/vizio-10-inch-tablet-combines-tegra-4-android-thin-body
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Apparently this is the tablet that comes to take Nexus 10 spot, Vizio 10 inch tablet with Tegra 4, 2560 x 1600 resolution, 32gb storage, Android 4.2. And it should be coming out Q1 2013, I think this one makes me wait to hear some more about it until I buy the Nexus 10, although to be honest the brand is a bit of a let down for me.
Edit: the 10-inch model, key specs (aside from Tegra 4) include a 2,560 x 1,600 display, 32GB of on-board memory, NFC and dual 5MP / 1.3MP cameras.
http://www.engadget.com/2013/01/07/vizio-10-inch-tegra-4-tablet-hands-on/