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Notion Ink Adam vs. Motorola Xoom - HD Video Playback

watch video! playing back 720p videos in avi/dvix and mkv formats
Notion Ink Adam vs. Motorola Xoom - HD Video Playback

Thanks a lot for doing this. To those wondering the Planet earth clip in question is from the first episodes introduction and is usually referred to as the "killa sample" when in 1080p because of the insane bitrate spike when the birds start flying. The idea is, if your device can play this it can play anything. The sample I sent to inspiron41 was in 720p.
Here are the details of the Planet earth clip:
Code:
Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 9 frames
Muxing mode : Header stripping
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1mn 52s
Bit rate : 6 478 Kbps
Nominal bit rate : 5 660 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.293
Stream size : 87.1 MiB (92%)
Title : Planet Earth - EP01 - From Pole to Pole
Writing library : x264 core 54 svn-635M
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=6 / deblock=1:-1:-1 / analyse=0x3:0x133 / me=umh / subme=7 / brdo=1 / mixed_ref=1 / me_range=24 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=2 / deadzone=21,11 / chroma_qp_offset=0 / threads=2 / nr=0 / decimate=0 / mbaff=0 / bframes=4 / b_pyramid=1 / b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / wpredb=1 / bime=1 / keyint=250 / keyint_min=25 / scenecut=40(pre) / rc=2pass / bitrate=5660 / ratetol=1.0 / rceq='blurCplx^(1-qComp)' / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=10 / qpmax=51 / qpstep=4 / cplxblur=20.0 / qblur=0.5 / ip_ratio=1.40 / pb_ratio=1.30 / aq=1:0.5:18.0
Language : English
Audio
ID : 2
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Mode extension : CM (complete main)
Muxing mode : Header stripping
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 1mn 52s
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Bit depth : 16 bits
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 6.03 MiB (6%)
Title : AC3 5.1
Language : English
As you can see, VERY high quality for a 720p clip. The bitrate actually spikes from around 4000Kb/s to a high of around 22000Kb/s during the bird scene.

It don't look good.

Thank you both for doing this, it goes a long way to assuage my fears of buying the Xoom and it not being able to handle anything I can throw at it.
Do you think at any point in the future the need to convert will go?
I'm hoping for a VLC for Xoom is released shortly.
I have little patience with converting media.

I just finished playing 2 hours of HD 720p MKV video files on my xoom on QQ player and it worked flawlessly!
Anime on the go just got better!
When I get home I try the HDMI out.

synplex said:
I just finished playing 2 hours of HD 720p MKV video files on my xoom on QQ player and it worked flawlessly!
Anime on the go just got better!
When I get home I try the HDMI out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you post the details of the video? Download this:
http://mediainfo.sourceforge.net/en
and open it and then drag the mkv file into the window. Then select View>Text and copy the Video and Audio sections.

i'm guessing that QQplayer isnt even optimized for Tegra II chips. would love to see what it could do if it was optimized

Ins and outs of video on the Xoom
@muyoso
The so-call "killa sampla" clip is commonly known as a BADLY encoded clip because the bitrate being used was outrageous. Yes, the "flock flying" sequence takes more bits and will cause a spike, but it's not a particularly demanding scene. There are scenes in the Planet Earth series that have much higher bit spikes. Note that the bitrate for the clip (6.4Mb/s) is only slightly higher than the avg bitrate assigned to the whole movie (5.6Mb/s).
Your 720p clip is badly coded as well. For one, there is no need to use L5.1 for the 720p res, especially when the targetted playback platform is a mobile device. For 720p, you should've used L3.1, and keep the x264 default of ref=3 rather than jacking it to ref=6 (or 9, if the level param takes precedence). For more info about x264's level parameter,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Levels
What was proven in your clip is that the Xoom (and Adam) can't play badly encoded MKVs, or MKV videos that were intended for the PC platform, which isn't surprising. Personally, I think it's a bit naive and unrealistic to expect PC-level video-decoding performance from this generation of tablets. Given that this is a tech forum, my suggestion for all concerned is to TECH UP and find a good conversion routine for your downloaded vids. Either that, or wait until next year for the quad-cores to show up.
I've written a Windows script package to optimize video for mobile devices, which can handle most common formats (excluding WMV). It uses x264 for the encoding and is very fast. It can also recode multichannel audio (AC3/FLAC/DTS/PCM) to either stereo MP3 or AAC, and takes only minutes to do. It's noob friendly; drag the video(s) on top of the script and drop it, and that's it.
Right now, it uses the MKV container. I'm hoping that CorePlayer for Android will show up soon, which'll provide MKV support & NEON-accel for H.264. If that doesn't happen, I'll rewrite the script to use MP4 container. MP4 has more constraints than MKV (only AAC audio, no bitmap subtitles), and I prefer to stick to MKV.
Drop your PE clip onto the script and let it recode. My bet is that this will fare much better on the mentioned tablets.
The script package is posted here,
forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=38604

So, wait, the Notion Ink Adam cannot play high profile 720p video?
We need a definitive answer here.
Some people are saying that the Adam couldn't play high profile 720p video but it could after a software update.
That planet earth sample is terrible for actually testing video playback. It was encoded using unrealistic settings. 9 reference frames? I can't imagine a situation where you would need that many.
We need a sample, encoded in 720p h.264, using 3 reference frames, 3 b-frames, weighted p-frames and adaptive b-frames.

>So, wait, the Notion Ink Adam cannot play high profile 720p video?
Let's find out.
The 720p clips below are from the first 1:52 from Planet Earth 01 From Pole to Pole (same as muyoso's), encoded in one-pass CRF mode using x264cli w/ params: --crf 21 --level 3.1 --tune film --preset medium (using the aforementioned script). Bog standard, nothing weird. Avg bitrate is at 5.4Mb/s.
The first clip uses MKV container. It should play in hardware (accelerated) mode using Rockplayer Universal or similar, or software mode otherwise. The second clip is the same as the first, but remuxed to MP4. It should play w/ default Android player. Let me know if Xoom/Adam owners can play either, and how well.
(Sorry, I can't yet post links. Would appreciate if someone with a higher post count repost the links below.)
Planet Earth MKV clip (76.4MB)
sendspace.com/file/avhrgb
Planet Earth MP4 clip (76.5MB)
sendspace.com/file/uo0rhg
Code:
Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Muxing mode : Header stripping
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1mn 52s
Bit rate : 5 438 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 720 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.246
Stream size : 73.2 MiB (96%)
Writing library : x264 core 114 r1913 5fd3dce
Encoding settings : cabac=1 / ref=3 / deblock=1:0:0 /
analyse=0x3:0x113 / me=hex / subme=7 / psy=1 / psy_rd=1.00:0.00 / mixed_ref=1 /
me_range=16 / chroma_me=1 / trellis=1 / 8x8dct=1 / cqm=0 / deadzone=21,11 /
fast_pskip=1 / chroma_qp_offset=-2 / threads=3 / sliced_threads=0 / nr=0 /
decimate=1 / interlaced=0 / constrained_intra=0 / bframes=3 / b_pyramid=2 /
b_adapt=1 / b_bias=0 / direct=1 / weightb=1 / open_gop=0 / weightp=2 /
keyint=250 / keyint_min=23 / scenecut=40 / intra_refresh=0 / rc_lookahead=40 /
rc=crf / mbtree=1 / crf=21.0 / qcomp=0.60 / qpmin=0 / qpmax=69 / qpstep=4 /
ip_ratio=1.40 / aq=1:1.00
Language : English
Audio
ID : 2
Format : MPEG Audio
Format version : Version 1
Format profile : Layer 3
Mode : Joint stereo
Mode extension : MS Stereo
Muxing mode : Header stripping
Codec ID : A_MPEG/L3
Codec ID/Hint : MP3
Duration : 51mn 16s
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 128 Kbps
Minimum bit rate : 32.0 Kbps
Channel(s) : 2 channels
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 46.9 MiB (61%)
Writing library : LAME3.98r
Encoding settings : -m j -V 5 -q 0 -lowpass 16.5 --vbr-new -b 32

BlazinGTI said:
Thank you both for doing this, it goes a long way to assuage my fears of buying the Xoom and it not being able to handle anything I can throw at it.
Do you think at any point in the future the need to convert will go?
I'm hoping for a VLC for Xoom is released shortly.
I have little patience with converting media.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Until the players are optimized for tegra, or a new app comes out
on my atrix (tegra2) a 1080p video plays just fine stock, but using qqplayer or rockplayer it stutters, so we will be saved soon i am sure
the video that i refer too is linked below
full 1080p, 10mbps ! (BASELINE PROFILE)
http://hotfile.com/dl/108279465/e51a41a/goal2.mp4.html

Dr.Preston said:
So, wait, the Notion Ink Adam cannot play high profile 720p video?
We need a definitive answer here.
Some people are saying that the Adam couldn't play high profile 720p video but it could after a software update.
That planet earth sample is terrible for actually testing video playback. It was encoded using unrealistic settings. 9 reference frames? I can't imagine a situation where you would need that many.
We need a sample, encoded in 720p h.264, using 3 reference frames, 3 b-frames, weighted p-frames and adaptive b-frames.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe you can answer me, im curious
can the xoom play 720p or 1080p high profile (or anything thats not baseline)
I know it cant, but is the reason that the tegra cant handle it, or is it a software issue (that can be resolved with apps/codecs)

SS2006 said:
maybe you can answer me, im curious
can the xoom play 720p or 1080p high profile (or anything thats not baseline)
I know it cant, but is the reason that the tegra cant handle it, or is it a software issue (that can be resolved with apps/codecs)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That seems to still be the big question.

Since the tegra can handle b frames cabac is the primary element in main profile that it can not handle. I would be interested to do a comparison of the same clip with cabac off.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App

My main concern at the moment (in regard of video playback) is:
1. There is already a lot of post about it here and I have not this issue being officially addressed by any of the three companies.
2. By the time issue is resolved new Xoom might be much cheaper.
3. What if issue is not resolved? How much will Xoom loose in value?
4. If any of coming Tegra 2 based tablets will hold additional chip + own player... who (from general public) will want to buy xoom (and for how much).
For me $800 is quite a lot and I have to take under consideration simple depreciation... I will want to get a newer tablet (maybe next year) so issue of getting money back is important.
Yes, I was hoping for PC like performance (especially that this is exactly how Xoom is being presented since few weeks/months)
No, I do not had/have/will have an iPad.
No, I do not have time (nor knowledge) to play with video format - all I want is to go to XYlinks.org page, make my download and watch the same way on tablet as I do now on my desktop or netbook (preferably form NAS drive). And most of the 720p stuff available to download is mkv high profile (for PC).
Video playback is very BIG issue. I have no doubt that all the rest will be sorted with updates as they are issues of software - video... I do not think so.
It is not me who started to compare xoom and honeycomb to PC experience but companies behind this product themselves.

@JanetPanic
Have you tried the clips I posted? Do they not work, and if not, what was the error encountered?
@galtom
You should only be concerned if you've bought a Xoom. And if you've bought one--on release day, at full MSRP--then why the heck do you worry about resale value? You already know that you'll be lucky to get half of what you paid when you resell it.
Lastly, if you don't care about technical aspects of HD videos, or finding a tech solution, why are you posting in this thread? This isn't a rant thread for Xoom owners having buyer's remorse.

galtom said:
My main concern at the moment (in regard of video playback) is:
1. There is already a lot of post about it here and I have not this issue being officially addressed by any of the three companies.
2. By the time issue is resolved new Xoom might be much cheaper.
3. What if issue is not resolved? How much will Xoom loose in value?
4. If any of coming Tegra 2 based tablets will hold additional chip + own player... who (from general public) will want to buy xoom (and for how much).
For me $800 is quite a lot and I have to take under consideration simple depreciation... I will want to get a newer tablet (maybe next year) so issue of getting money back is important.
Yes, I was hoping for PC like performance (especially that this is exactly how Xoom is being presented since few weeks/months)
No, I do not had/have/will have an iPad.
No, I do not have time (nor knowledge) to play with video format - all I want is to go to XYlinks.org page, make my download and watch the same way on tablet as I do now on my desktop or netbook (preferably form NAS drive). And most of the 720p stuff available to download is mkv high profile (for PC).
Video playback is very BIG issue. I have no doubt that all the rest will be sorted with updates as they are issues of software - video... I do not think so.
It is not me who started to compare xoom and honeycomb to PC experience but companies behind this product themselves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Shhhhh. Quiet! Your not supposed to say the emperor has no clothes around here. Makes everyone very irritable. Just take a deep breath and repeat after me:
I like re-encoding all my videos. Its fun!
I like re-encoding all my videos. Its fun!
it gives me a feeling of accomplishment.
I'm happy waiting two hours to watch a movie that took 15 minutes to download.
Its fun.
Yes its lots of fun!
Ok now....breathe out....
Thats it. Thats it. Now, don't you feel better?

@Digital Man
Spoken like a true technophobe. Unlike your binary view of the world, not everybody is a hater or a fanboy. XDA is a technical forum, and one would expect for people to look for tech solutions to tech problems.
Yes, the Xoom is deficient on video playback. My opinion is that it's mostly a software (read: fixable) issue, which will be remedied when better media players come online. One I've mentioned is Coreplayer for Android, which will have comprehensive format support (aside from AC3) and hardware accelerated support for Tegra2. We all know that there is little tab-specific Android software available right now. That will come.
Despite what the official Moto line is, I'm fairly confident the Tegra2 can do 720p high profile, as long as the encode uses default parameters. Some so-called scene rips don't. If you want to watch these, you'll need to re-encode. That's just the way it is, until the quad-cores get to market.
As for 1080p HP videos, there are other constraints that make them impractical for watching on tablets other than chip capability. A typical 1080p rip averages around 10GB, and takes around 30+ minutes to transfer to flash. So unless you like to watch the same video over and over, swapping 1080p vids in and out of int storage sounds pretty unappealing to me. Ditto for the SD slot, assuming once it's working. Over wifi? You've got to be kidding.
The reality is that 720p is the most feasible resolution for tablets, considering their storage constraints, and the constraints of wifi (yes, you can stream 720p as-is over a good wifi connection).

e.mote said:
@muyoso
The so-call "killa sampla" clip is commonly known as a BADLY encoded clip because the bitrate being used was outrageous. Yes, the "flock flying" sequence takes more bits and will cause a spike, but it's not a particularly demanding scene. There are scenes in the Planet Earth series that have much higher bit spikes. Note that the bitrate for the clip (6.4Mb/s) is only slightly higher than the avg bitrate assigned to the whole movie (5.6Mb/s).
Your 720p clip is badly coded as well. For one, there is no need to use L5.1 for the 720p res, especially when the targetted playback platform is a mobile device. For 720p, you should've used L3.1, and keep the x264 default of ref=3 rather than jacking it to ref=6 (or 9, if the level param takes precedence). For more info about x264's level parameter,
en.wikipedia.org/wiki/H.264/MPEG-4_AVC#Levels
What was proven in your clip is that the Xoom (and Adam) can't play badly encoded MKVs, or MKV videos that were intended for the PC platform, which isn't surprising. Personally, I think it's a bit naive and unrealistic to expect PC-level video-decoding performance from this generation of tablets. Given that this is a tech forum, my suggestion for all concerned is to TECH UP and find a good conversion routine for your downloaded vids. Either that, or wait until next year for the quad-cores to show up.
I've written a Windows script package to optimize video for mobile devices, which can handle most common formats (excluding WMV). It uses x264 for the encoding and is very fast. It can also recode multichannel audio (AC3/FLAC/DTS/PCM) to either stereo MP3 or AAC, and takes only minutes to do. It's noob friendly; drag the video(s) on top of the script and drop it, and that's it.
Right now, it uses the MKV container. I'm hoping that CorePlayer for Android will show up soon, which'll provide MKV support & NEON-accel for H.264. If that doesn't happen, I'll rewrite the script to use MP4 container. MP4 has more constraints than MKV (only AAC audio, no bitmap subtitles), and I prefer to stick to MKV.
Drop your PE clip onto the script and let it recode. My bet is that this will fare much better on the mentioned tablets.
The script package is posted here,
forum.archosfans.com/viewtopic.php?f=63&t=38604
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct me if I'm wrong, but Tegra 2 on which these tablets are based doesn't do NEON.

Digital Man said:
[...]
I like re-encoding all my videos. Its fun!
it gives me a feeling of accomplishment.
I'm happy waiting two hours to watch a movie that took 15 minutes to download.
[...]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL! Exactly my point. Look guys, the only product of Apple Inc I had was second gen of iPod, since my Wife got herself a while back an iPhone and forced me to install iTunes I have promised myself solemnly - never, ever again anything like it.
So, I am all for Xoom (and the likes) so they can succeed, but on the other hand I do not want to same problems and frustration.
This is not a first thread about video issue and I can bet even people who had never heard of XDA but bought Xoom are now puzzled and are probably thinking - what is wrong? It was supposed to play HD video and it is not (Mr Average Joe is not going to even know about all this HD gibberish - 720p. 1080p that is it). It says in the ad it plays 720p. and.... at home it is not.
With every passing day I am worried that issue is BIG since it has not been addressed nor by any "gadget web site" nor by (what is more important) by any of the involved companies... With iPad2 out now I would think it would be fair to say how the things are and what customers are to expect.
Knowing 720p High profile is not coming to Tegra 2 I still would buy it and would not get furious afterwards that I have been mislead (or simply kept in the dark just to make me buy it). With no information I can not make a conscious decision about purchase - and that is all I require.
To summarize:
As much as this forum is AWESOME and I value every single opinion (and I am honestly grateful for it) this one has to be addressed by BIG BOYS as "we" (hi, hi, hi) have only our privet opinions about it with nothing to support them :-(

High profile 720p answers.

I'm a new Xoom owner and am for the most part pleased with the device.
My only sore spot is with the inability to play high profile or even main profile h.264 720p videos. Hell it can't even play high or main profile 480p videos without a certain amount of stuttering.
All over the Xoom forums we're hearing everything from "it's impossible because of Tegra 2 limitations" to "it just needs a new codec/video player", and many people saying that the Notion Ink Adam had the same issue, but that it was solved with a firmware update.
What I'm looking for is a straight answer, from someone who both owns a Notion Ink Adam and who knows enough about h.264 to know what high profile means.
Did the Notion Ink Adam receive a FW update that allowed it to play high profile 720p video.
I saw a video of the notion ink adam playing very choppy 720p (the bird scene from Planet Earth) but that video was poorly encoded and an unrealistic benchmark for any mobile device. (9 reference frames? Come on!)

No its laggy at the moment, tried every mkv player out there and everyone had its own issues.. from not starting to locking, to not able to play the file to finally I had one play but it was laggy and overall not enjoyable.

I think software decoding optimized for the tegra is probably the quickest solution for now. I don't think anyone saw android moving onto tablets this quickly or people trying to playing a 2-3 gb files this quickly

Btw I would love to see a PC video player like PowetDVD make a real video player for android

no6969el said:
No its laggy at the moment, tried every mkv player out there and everyone had its own issues.. from not starting to locking, to not able to play the file to finally I had one play but it was laggy and overall not enjoyable.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which ROM / NI version were you using?

joshua.lyon said:
Which ROM / NI version were you using?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Utopia beta 1. I didnt do as much testing on stock roms....i saw that video vs the xoom and he was able to do it but i didnt catch what player he was using....he just set it to software decoding mode as mentioned above...
I did get one my files to play with sound but it still was laggy. High def robot chicken episode.

Just tested with the latest build NIA920040311 and the stock VideoPlayer
It plays the following H.264 720p very choppy and no sound:
Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 5 frames
Muxing mode : Container [email protected]
Codec ID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration : 1h 47mn
Bit rate : 3 913 Kbps
Width : 1 280 pixels
Height : 528 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 2.35:1
Frame rate : 24.000 fps
Resolution : 8 bits
Colorimetry : 4:2:0
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.241
Stream size : 2.93 GiB (88%)
Language : English
Audio
ID : 2
Format : AC-3
Format/Info : Audio Coding 3
Codec ID : A_AC3
Duration : 1h 47mn
Bit rate mode : Constant
Bit rate : 448 Kbps
Channel(s) : 6 channels
Channel positions : Front: L C R, Side: L R, LFE
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Stream size : 344 MiB (10%)

i played a 720p mpeg4 file from my usb 500gb hard drive and it played fine using stock video player

Can anyone read mkv files here? :-$
Sent from my Dell Streak using XDA App

div3r5ity said:
i played a 720p mpeg4 file from my usb 500gb hard drive and it played fine using stock video player
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you check with MediaInfo and post details of the media format?

If you change the extension of the file from .mkv to .avi you can see the video, but as said above the decoder to mkv is not properly optimized.

No rename is required, the stock video player read .mkv but I am not sure if it use software or hardware mode to play it. It's like slow motion and without sound for a 720p h.264 L3.1 High Profile 4000Kbps video.

Dr.Preston said:
I'm a new Xoom owner and am for the most part pleased with the device.
My only sore spot is with the inability to play high profile or even main profile h.264 720p videos. Hell it can't even play high or main profile 480p videos without a certain amount of stuttering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure about the Xoom... a buddy of mine on a video forum (Creative Cow) has a Xoom, and found it was ok with base profile 720/30p at 3Mb/s or less, but started choking much beyond that. I've only had my Adam since Friday, but grabbed a bit of handy video to test it out myself. From a plain old USB stick, the Adam did a 720/[email protected]/s file perfectly, both MP4/AVC and WMV9. I tried another file I had around, 720/[email protected]/s, but it only played at 30fps... thus, slow motion.
Dr.Preston said:
All over the Xoom forums we're hearing everything from "it's impossible because of Tegra 2 limitations" to "it just needs a new codec/video player", and many people saying that the Notion Ink Adam had the same issue, but that it was solved with a firmware update.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No question the Xoom seems to have some issues, and some of that could be the incompleteness of Honeycomb fine-tuning. Given that the problems I had heard previously were seen with fairly low bitrate 720p, I would at least check the speed on your Xoom's memory (internal?). Shouldn't be an issue... SD Tools benchmarked the Adam's internal "SD Drive" at 160MB/s-200MB/s reads (10MB/s writes). Android 2.2 is still unsophisticated about devices at the GUI level -- cannot yet point the same benchmark at external flash or USB. Probably not an issue, but worth eliminating as one.
Dr.Preston said:
What I'm looking for is a straight answer, from someone who both owns a Notion Ink Adam and who knows enough about h.264 to know what high profile means.
Did the Notion Ink Adam receive a FW update that allowed it to play high profile 720p video.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So I made a bunch of AVC files. All come from an original AVCHD track, 1080/24p, 24Mb/s, shot on a Panasonic HMC40 camcorder. All rendering using the Sony Vegas 10 and the Sony AVC CODEC.
I rendered 720p and 1080p files, put them on a USB stick, and played them on my Adam. None of the 1080p stuff played perfectly on the Adam.... 1080/24p baseline at at 4Mb/s was just a bit off. All of the 720/24p videos did just dandy at 4Mb/s, even the High profile. Going to higher bitrates, I have some 720/24p baseline holding together at 6Mb/s, some lagging behind the audio -- sure looks like the player (NI player, Android default, and the ES File Explorer video player work identically -- they're all accessing the same OS components) doesn't drop frames when it can't keep up. So the audio walks away from the video. It gets worse at higher bitrates... presumably, more frames are not staying in sync.
So it looks jittery... just a little off from being "real". I'll wager most people would be completely happy with 6Mb/s, or even the 4Mb/s 1080p baseline, if the player did a proper job of staying in sync... you don't notice the occasional dropped frame, but at least if you're a musician, you'll be bothered by audio being off even a few milliseconds. Didn't help that my subject was my friend Pat playing guitar... pretty obvious when mouth and fingers don't match the sound... and when the sound ends, but video keeps going (the files are, of course, in sync on the PC). I started with a USB stick, but got the same results on the "external" SD Card, which on my system is a 32GB Class 10 card, plenty fast enough for this.
So I think a properly encoded 720/24-30p video at 4Mb/s or so is the sweet spot for today's Adam, and in theory other Tegra2 systems. You might manage a bit higher bitrate, but not too much. If they fix the player with a proper frame drop trick play function, higher bitrate video would probably look just dandy, even if it's dropping the occasional frame to stay in sync.

I wonder if Tegra2 processor is fast enough to decode 720p high profile in software. It's a two core 1Ghz processor - I remember that my Duron 1000 was almost certainly not able to decode h264 but Athlon 1400Mhz (one core) was close if I remember correctly. ARMs are probably much slower than Athlons but in decoding videos the difference shouldn't count as much (because it's probably straight forward computing without many conditional instructions)...

[Q] Xoom HD playback capability

There are a lot of MP4 video clips that I cannot get to play on Xoom smoothly but they play back really well on my HTC Desire.
On Xoom the video is laggy while the audio is audible. This happened to both 720p and 480p videos. I used both the default player and Moboplayer to ensure I am using the hardware acceleration.
Strangely on my Xoom the Moboplayer can soft-decode 480p MP4 with ffmpeg and playback without any problem. 720 is smoother but the decoding was too slow which resulted in A-V async.
Again, all those clips play really well on my HTC Desire. Tegra 2 should be able to handle them.
Anyone knows anything?

Please search the forum before asking questions. This has been asnswered.
The problem you're having is to do with the clips using high profile encoding.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=968640&highlight=video
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=968308&highlight=video
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=972812&highlight=video
There's lots more. All I can say is, learn to love Handbrake and be prepared to have your computer running all night every night if you ever want to watch HD movies on this thing.

I dont agree; I have transcoded 2 blue rays, hellboy and start trek 2009 in about an hour each, using my imac and handbreak
Oh, and download Vitalplayer from the market for the best hd video playback..

wase4711 said:
I dont agree; I have transcoded 2 blue rays, hellboy and start trek 2009 in about an hour each, using my imac and handbreak
Oh, and download Vitalplayer from the market for the best hd video playback..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, well, I don't agree.
I converted 2 720p mkv 90 minute movies and a 40 minute 720p mkv TV show last night and it took 6 hours. This was done on an Intel Core 2 duo P750 2.26GHz
Not everyone has the same hardware. I suppose I could run out and buy an i5 or i7 for the sole purpose of encoding video for the XOOM.
Maybe Motorola can partner with a PC company. How about 20% off a new laptop when you buy a XOOM that way you will be able to take advantage of its HD video capability in 2 hours instead of six.

Digital Man said:
Yeah, well, I don't agree.
I converted 2 720p mkv 90 minute movies and a 40 minute 720p mkv TV show last night and it took 6 hours. This was done on an Intel Core 2 duo P750 2.26GHz
Not everyone has the same hardware. I suppose I could run out and buy an i5 or i7 for the sole purpose of encoding video for the XOOM.
Maybe Motorola can partner with a PC company. How about 20% off a new laptop when you buy a XOOM that way you will be able to take advantage of its HD video capability in 2 hours instead of six.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It all depends on your settings, and keep in mind that the imac is going to have similar hardware to your machine. The recommendation is to set max width to 1280, set B Frames to 0, turn off CABAC, 8x8 Transform, and Weighted P frames. If you do that, you'll find fairly consistent encoding times even with older hardware. Also, keep in mind that encoding is entirely processor bound and will do better the more cores you can throw at it.

mcnutty said:
It all depends on your settings, and keep in mind that the imac is going to have similar hardware to your machine. The recommendation is to set max width to 1280, set B Frames to 0, turn off CABAC, 8x8 Transform, and Weighted P frames. If you do that, you'll find fairly consistent encoding times even with older hardware. Also, keep in mind that encoding is entirely processor bound and will do better the more cores you can throw at it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Been there done that. There are no shortcuts. Good quality takes time or more cores. Or harness the GPU ie CUDA but that causes horrendous macroblocking in bright scenes.
No matter how you sugar coat it, re-encoding video is a time consuming pain in the ass for most people.
I also seem to remember there are multiple versions of the imac, with variable hardware specs, from dual core up to quad core 3.6GHz - so your claim of similar hardware seems unlikely.

..........

e.mote said:
>I converted 2 720p mkv 90 minute movies and a 40 minute 720p mkv TV show last night and it took 6 hours.
Suggest using 800 max width for substantially faster encode speed and smaller size. Quality diff is negligible on a 10".
If using 2-pass, switch to 1-pass for both faster encode time AND better quality.
Unfortunately, HB doesn't provide x264's speed presets. You can gain additional speed (at cost of some nominal size increase) with the faster presets. Hmm, I should update my HB script to allow "downloadables" as input.
>The recommendation is to set max width to 1280, set B Frames to 0, turn off CABAC, 8x8 Transform, and Weighted P frames. If you do that, you'll find fairly consistent encoding times even with older hardware.
Encoding to baseline profile (what the above basically means) gains speed by disabling more advanced "compression" features. The trade-off is significant size increase, about +30% vs high profile.
Using a lower res allows more efficient settings. At 800 width, you can use main profile. Speed diff between main & baseline is insignificant. Speed gain for the lower res is substantial.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate that your trying to help, but those are the settings that I have been using already: 1280, set B Frames to 0, turn off CABAC, turn off 8x8 Transform, and turn off Weighted P frames....
and it is still taking well over 3 hours to re-encode a 1:30 movie.
I understand that lowering the resolution will decrease the encoding time, but I consider that a last resort compromise. In fact I would consider that basically a failure of the XOOM.
I have considered buying an i5 or i7, but I feel stupid buying a new laptop for the sole purpose of encoding for the XOOM, when I could just pick up my Galaxy Tab and just play these videos immediately. No encoding. Just copy them over and play.

I am quite sure those videos are not high profile. Their bitrates were around 2M, way below 20M.
And, as I said, I can even do soft-decode to play the 480ps which does not play well with hard-decoding.
480ps, man. 480ps. Stunning.

e.mote said:
Last edited by e.mote; Today at 10:19 PM. Reason: reply removed, as recipient can't read
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Your sarcasm needs work. It lacks creativity. And removing the original post is just immature.

Digital Man said:
Your sarcasm needs work. It lacks creativity. And removing the original post is just immature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't really care about the encoding stage, I have an i7-950 which encodes a blu-ray in handbreak in well under an hour.
What I'd like to know, is are the codecs really this lacking, and will we see a solution?
I, like the OP have a HTC Desire and I could be devastated to find the XOOM can't handle the videos my Desire can.
Does it natively support mkv? I like to watch TV episodes in mkv like the 86MB Big Bang Theory episodes.
All my non-TV stuff I rip myself so I'm not concerned. Other than the DRM wmv I buy. Which play back fine on my galaxy tab.

alias_neo said:
I don't really care about the encoding stage, I have an i7-950 which encodes a blu-ray in handbreak in well under an hour.
What I'd like to know, is are the codecs really this lacking, and will we see a solution?
I, like the OP have a HTC Desire and I could be devastated to find the XOOM can't handle the videos my Desire can.
Does it natively support mkv? I like to watch TV episodes in mkv like the 86MB Big Bang Theory episodes.
All my non-TV stuff I rip myself so I'm not concerned. Other than the DRM wmv I buy. Which play back fine on my galaxy tab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most TV shows that are 720p mkv, and are privately enoded, and downloaded, average about 1.2 GB and will and not play. Support for MKV as a container isn't a problem, its the profile of the h264 video in the container that is the problem.
If the Video that you like to watch is only 86MB, that doesn't sound like high profile 720p. So it might play, only way to know is to try or download mediaInfo and check its properties.
Good to hear that the i7 that you have can do a blu-ray in an hour. That sounds like what I should do eventually. Wonder if an i5 will do as well. I've heard that the i7, though it has 4 physical cores, is seen as 8 due to multithreading, wheras the i5 is limited to 4.
I watched two re-encoded episodes of fringe last night, and the Video on the XOOM is really amazing. It actually is almost worth the wait.

Digital Man said:
Most TV shows that are 720p mkv, and are privately enoded, and downloaded, average about 1.2 GB and will and not play. Support for MKV as a container isn't a problem, its the profile of the h264 video in the container that is the problem.
If the Video that you like to watch is only 86MB, that doesn't sound like high profile 720p. So it might play, only way to know is to try or download mediaInfo and check its properties.
Good to hear that the i7 that you have can do a blu-ray in an hour. That sounds like what I should do eventually. Wonder if an i5 will do as well. I've heard that the i7, though it has 4 physical cores, is seen as 8 due to multithreading, wheras the i5 is limited to 4.
I watched two re-encoded episodes of fringe last night, and the Video on the XOOM is really amazing. It actually is almost worth the wait.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's correct, it's an 8 threaded processor, running on an Asus ROG III Gene.
As for the videos I'm watching:
Video
ID/String : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format_Profile : [email protected]
Format_Settings_CABAC/String : Yes
Format_Settings_RefFrames/String : 4 frames
Format_Settings_GOP : M=4, N=48
CodecID : V_MPEG4/ISO/AVC
Duration/String : 20mn 24s
BitRate/String : 465 Kbps
Width/String : 624 pixels
Height/String : 352 pixels
DisplayAspectRatio/String : 16:9
FrameRate/String : 23.976 fps
Standard : NTSC
ColorSpace : YUV
ChromaSubsampling : 4:2:0
BitDepth/String : 8 bits
ScanType/String : Progressive
Bits-(Pixel*Frame) : 0.088
StreamSize/String : 67.8 MiB (77%)
They're not 720, but they're nice enough on my Galaxy Tab. They are High Profile @ L4.0 though which I'v heard a lot of bad-mouthing about on the forum lately. I'm no expert on media codecs and frankly couldn't care as long as theyre watchable. I'd love to know I could rip my Blu-Rays at 720p and watch them on the XOOM comfortably though.

What you are posting is interesting. Its high profile, but low bit rate. Some of the early claims for the Tegra 2, which is used in the XOOM, said it actually could play high profile but only at a low bit rate, but I haven't heard it confirmed. I suspect this video will not play, but later on I will try encoding a video in a simliar manner to yours and see what happens.

Digital Man said:
What you are posting is interesting. Its high profile, but low bit rate. Some of the early claims for the Tegra 2, which is used in the XOOM, said it actually could play high profile but only at a low bit rate, but I haven't heard it confirmed. I suspect this video will not play, but later on I will try encoding a video in a simliar manner to yours and see what happens.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great, if you like I can dropbox the file I have and PM you the link for testing. These files playback flawlessly using the Galaxy Tab with every single player software I have tried, whether hardware or software decoding. FOr them not to play on the XOOM would be a killer.

Got your file. Sorry, it plays but with no sound. I tried RockPlayer and Moboplayer and the System Player and all play the same - silent.
The Video is actually pretty good. Smooth and very acceptable. So I guess it can technically play high profile, very low bitrate files - just not with sound. Have to Play around some more and see if I can learn anything else that might get this to play correctly or figure out what the problem is.
Edit: Actually, this is a Divx encoded file, not h264, so that is why it plays. So I am a little surprised about the lack of audio. And its only mp3 audio!!! This is really amazing. I can't believe the XOOM isn't playing this correctly. Has to be a way.
Update: Ok, success! It does play correctly in Rockplayer in software decoding mode. With sound. So it looks like you will have no problem.

Digital Man said:
Got your file. Sorry, it plays but with no sound. I tried RockPlayer and Moboplayer and the System Player and all play the same - silent.
The Video is actually pretty good. Smooth and very acceptable. So I guess it can technically play high profile, very low bitrate files - just not with sound. Have to Play around some more and see if I can learn anything else that might get this to play correctly or figure out what the problem is.
Edit: Actually, this is a Divx encoded file, not h264, so that is why it plays. So I am a little surprised about the lack of audio. And its only mp3 audio!!! This is really amazing. I can't believe the XOOM isn't playing this correctly. Has to be a way.
Update: Ok, success! It does play correctly in Rockplayer in software decoding mode. With sound. So it looks like you will have no problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Interesting, if somewhat concerning that it won't play this in the standard players or with hard-decoding even though it uses mp3 audio.
How about VPlayer Advanced? I find this plays most of my videos nicely on the Tab.

Probably just lack of Divx support in hardware. Thats not a big deal, even a single core CPU of lower power can easily decode low res, low bitrate Divx. I don't consider that a flaw at all. Software decoding video like this with the XOOM's dual core A9's is trivial. Results are fine. Just need an app like RockPlayer that does it. XVID files will probably not work in hardware either.
From Motorolas website:
PLAYABLE FORMATS
AAC, H.263, H.264, MP3, MPEG-4, ACC+ Enhanced, OGG, MIDI, AMR NB, AAC+

Digital Man said:
Probably just lack of Divx support in hardware. Thats not a big deal, even a single core CPU of lower power can easily decode low res, low bitrate Divx. I don't consider that a flaw at all. Software decoding video like this with the XOOM's dual core A9's is trivial. Results are fine. Just need an app like RockPlayer that does it. XVID files will probably not work in hardware either.
From Motorolas website:
PLAYABLE FORMATS
AAC, H.263, H.264, MP3, MPEG-4, ACC+ Enhanced, OGG, MIDI, AMR NB, AAC+
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeh that's pretty fair I guess. How do you think it would manage if converted to MP4? I can do it on my 950 when I get home and send you it if you like? I'd not mind converting the whole lot if it played in the stock player.

My only gripe about Android/Transformer

Video format compatibility.
I want to buy a sports camera and be able to use the honeycomb movie editor to edit the footage. I can understand why my old one couldn't edit it, as it recorded in MOV format (Apple proprietary), so I sold it.
However thinking of the Kodak Playsport XZ5, and downloaded some MP4 sample footage, which I assumed could be edited.. Nope...
Anyone know why Android can't seem to edit anything unless it was created on Android.. (it's almost as bad as Apple devices only editing video from Apple devices..)
The same footage is here: (18MB)
http://www.steves-digicams.com/camera-reviews/kodak/playsport-zx5/101_0002.MP4
Anyone know a waterproof sports camera that DOES record in a Android friendly format?
The info from MediaInfo from the file shows the following:
General
Complete name : C:\Users\Mark\Desktop\101_0002.MP4
Format : MPEG-4
Format profile : JVT
Codec ID : avc1
File size : 23.2 MiB
Duration : 16s 16ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 12.2 Mbps
Movie name/More : KODAK PLAYSPORT Video Camera, Zx5
Encoded date : UTC 2011-06-17 16:26:02
Tagged date : UTC 2011-06-17 16:26:02
Origin : Digital Camera
AMBA : 

Video
ID : 1
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 4 frames
Codec ID : avc1
Codec ID/Info : Advanced Video Coding
Duration : 16s 16ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 11.8 Mbps
Maximum bit rate : 49.9 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate mode : Constant
Frame rate : 29.970 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.189
Stream size : 22.4 MiB (97%)
Title : Ambarella AVC / Ambarella AVC
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2011-06-17 16:26:02
Tagged date : UTC 2011-06-17 16:26:02
Audio
ID : 2
Format : AAC
Format/Info : Advanced Audio Codec
Format profile : LC
Codec ID : 40
Duration : 15s 979ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 64.0 Kbps
Channel(s) : 1 channel
Channel positions : Front: C
Sampling rate : 48.0 KHz
Compression mode : Lossy
Stream size : 125 KiB (1%)
Title : Ambarella AAC / Ambarella AAC
Language : English
Encoded date : UTC 2011-06-17 16:26:02
Tagged date : UTC 2011-06-17 16:26:02
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Tegra 2 is not very friendly with 1080p videos - either reconvert the video (threads can be found here about settings, codecs etc.) or get a Tegra 3 device

I'm not a video expert, but while investigating formatting for ripping movies to play on my Android devices, I found the h.264 video codec was the most compatible. That said, I can't imagine doing much video processing on my Transformer. It's cool, but by no means a desktop/ laptop replacement.

H.264 IS AVC/AAC isn't it?
This is what the Kodak Playsport ZX5 camera is producing.....
Anyone have one, and can record some 720p to try on a Transformer?

Because its a tablet and NOT a computer.

Oyeve said:
Because its a tablet and NOT a computer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't see your point. I realise it's not a computer, which is the whole point of me trying to find a waterproof sports camera that records in a format the Transformers movie editing software understands, as I can't transcode it on the tablet itself....
What was your point?

CrazyPeter said:
I don't see your point. I realise it's not a computer, which is the whole point of me trying to find a waterproof sports camera that records in a format the Transformers movie editing software understands, as I can't transcode it on the tablet itself....
What was your point?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think his point was that some tools are better suited for certain jobs while others are not. Today's tablets (particularly ones based on the Android OS) are not very well suited for things like video editing. Sure, there is a video editing program there that does a decent job of rudimentary cutting on the Transformer's already crappy recorded video footage, but for using it to edit movies/videos recorded by an external device might not be the best.
Even the cheapest laptop computer (that costs less than the Transformer I might add) could do a better job with proper software and hardware acceleration.
That being said, if you are well and determined to use a tablet to edit, I'm sure someone here can help you with a solution. My guess is you will probably need some other device to transcode before editing.

I will only buy something ilthat is compatible.
I only have two requirements.
1. Its video output is in a compatible format
2, its waterproof.

CrazyPeter said:
H.264 IS AVC/AAC isn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it's a common misconception. H264 is MP4, but MP4 is not H264. MP4 is a suite protocols. H264=MP4 Part 10. Here's the full vomit:
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/MPEG-4_Part_14
Anyway, 3GP, MOV, and MP4 are all MP4, but may or may not be H264/AAC.
FYI: Canon uses H264/with sowt/AIFF audio, which is a semi-proprietary Apple format (sowt is just a PCM/Wave variant). It sucks because it seems that the only thing that will play it is Apple crap or Windows 7. Most of the embedded hardware players (e.g. LG TVs/PS3) drop the audio. I don't know if Canon just didn't want to pony up the money for AAC or was trying to be a purist.
I've been toying with a lossless conversion, but I can't find any documentation on either sowt or twos. I have managed to demux the stream. The Apple stuff all refers to AIFF, which is a different format. I'm really annoyed with Canon, because generally their stuff is really good.

dburckh said:
No, it's a common misconception. H264 is MP4, but MP4 is not H264. MP4 is a suite protocols. H264=MP4 Part 10. Here's the full vomit:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The problem I have, is what I consider to be about as close to ISO standard format as there is i.e.
H.264/AVC video (LC profile)
AAC Audio
MP4 container
Can't be played or edited on the transfomer. Surely it doesn't get any standard than H.264/LC with AAC in a MP4 container does it?

Well, got some 720p 60FPS and 720p 30fps footage from a test camera, and the Transformer plays the video just fine, however bizarrely Movie Studio is incapable of editing it.
I have come to the conclusion tha Movie Studio in Honeycomb is ****e.. Lets home ICS sorts out some of it's problems, and makes it more of an iMovie competitor....
Raised an Android defect: http://code.google.com/p/android/issues/detail?id=22426

the damn tegra 2 cpu has 100mflops power... compare that to a pentium 4 from 2003(northwood 3.0ghz) 6500mflops
my i7 pumps 75,000mflops
it will take the transformer WEEKS TO REENCODE ANY SORT OF MEDIA. It can barely play 1080p let alone RENDER it. good luck.

chatch15117 said:
the damn tegra 2 cpu has 100mflops power... compare that to a pentium 4 from 2003(northwood 3.0ghz) 6500mflops
my i7 pumps 75,000mflops
it will take the transformer WEEKS TO REENCODE ANY SORT OF MEDIA. It can barely play 1080p let alone RENDER it. good luck.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
Not to mention that you're limited to 1 GB of memory, and only about 700MB of it is available to apps. A decent video editing workstation these days will have at least 8GB, which is just barely sufficient for editing an hour long 720p movie. You can certainly attempt to edit videos on much less memory, but again the performance would be atrocious.

Not to mention what that would do to the battery life if you trip over the cable .
Can't say that I imagine a lot of people in powerful money pockets wanting anyone at home having the ability to do such stuff anyway, if there's any chance of e.g. ripping a Blu-Ray wit the same kit.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk

???? Has school kicked out or something, as I really can't comprehend how dumb these last few comments are.
the whole point of picking a video camera that records in the correct format IS SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO TRANSCODE. that is the whole point of this thread, You can't transcode on a tablet, so it's crucial to pick a device that records in a compatible format... If it's in the correct format, then it's trivial to trim and splice footage in a simple movie editor like Honeycomb's Movie Studio.
Some people really are so thick it's unbelievable...

CrazyPeter said:
???? Has school kicked out or something, as I really can't comprehend how dumb these last few comments are.
the whole point of picking a video camera that records in the correct format IS SO YOU DON'T HAVE TO TRANSCODE. that is the whole point of this thread, You can't transcode on a tablet, so it's crucial to pick a device that records in a compatible format... If it's in the correct format, then it's trivial to trim and splice footage in a simple movie editor like Honeycomb's Movie Studio.
Some people really are so thick it's unbelievable...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, just the typical xda idiots talking about **** above their heads. Lol'd pretty hard at the mflops post. I really miss the "developers" part of "xda-developers" :sigh:.
I wouldn't expect Movie Studio to add any real support for it. Movie Studio was a gimmick app to show off honeycomb, made for people who want to mess around with stuff recorded on device. Give it some more time and I'm sure we'll get more professional video editing software (for a price).

There is no way you are going to be able to edit HD video at a reasonable bitrate (at any profile) on an ARM device. You would need a native app that talked directly to the handful of CUDA cores in the tegra to do this, and there is not enough memory to hold more than a few seconds of uncompressed video on your timeline for a preview (not to mention the amount of virtual nand cache you would need).
Tegra 2 has some hardware DECODING of avc/h.264, but realtime encoding is simply not a possibility for even tegra 3.
I share the desire for an awesome NLE on android, but its gonna take a few years for the tech to get there.
/EDIT
To answer the first part of your question, it is possible to edit using the honeycomb app, but you will need to transcode (and lose a lot of quality). I doubt it would suit your needs, as at that point youd be better off just using windows movie maker/imovie

kazama42 said:
There is no way you are going to be able to edit HD video at a reasonable bitrate (at any profile) on an ARM device. You would need a native app that talked directly to the handful of CUDA cores in the tegra to do this, and there is not enough memory to hold more than a few seconds of uncompressed video on your timeline for a preview (not to mention the amount of virtual nand cache you would need).
Tegra 2 has some hardware DECODING of avc/h.264, but realtime encoding is simply not a possibility for even tegra 3.
I share the desire for an awesome NLE on android, but its gonna take a few years for the tech to get there.
/EDIT
To answer the first part of your question, it is possible to edit using the honeycomb app, but you will need to transcode (and lose a lot of quality). I doubt it would suit your needs, as at that point youd be better off just using windows movie maker/imovie
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you don't understand how things work.
IF (and that's the original point of this thread), the format is correct, then you don't do any encoding/decoding/transcoding.
Trimming/Splicing is all that's required, along with rendering a picture and transitions and adding a audio track.
This is EXACTLY what iMovie does, and Transformer is perfectly capable of doing so to. AS ALONG AS THE VIDEO IS IN THE CORRECT FORMAT.

CrazyPeter is correct... if the video is encoded to be played back on the device then it can also edit it. You do not need to store the entire video in memory or transcode it, you can merely store positions of the sliced clips in memory as a frame offset of the original video file.. then trim/slice the video together when its' done (which *doesn't* require encoding). It gets iffy when you want to add transitions, text etc into the project but for *just* trimming and slicing it can work.
Sent from my Transformer TF101

Gary13579 said:
CrazyPeter is correct... if the video is encoded to be played back on the device then it can also edit it. You do not need to store the entire video in memory or transcode it, you can merely store positions of the sliced clips in memory as a frame offset of the original video file.. then trim/slice the video together when its' done (which *doesn't* require encoding). It gets iffy when you want to add transitions, text etc into the project but for *just* trimming and slicing it can work.
Sent from my Transformer TF101
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In agreement, i was referring to non-linear editing, which no tablet can do today. this virtualdub-like functionality certainly could work. you'd just need to find a way to hook into the hardware decoding capabilities of the tegra2 i would guess.

Video playback.. Um.. Wow!!

I just put the Amazing life THX demo as found on the Avatar Blu-ray directly onto my phone, a totally untouched m2ts file. I know my S3 wont play it, but the One plays it with MX player in software mode. its 95% smooth, just the odd stutter.
Thats impressive, very.
Edit: It seems my Nexus 10 will do as well, maybe its an A15 thing, because it doesn't work on any A9 based device ive tried it on.

rovex said:
I just put the Amazing life THX demo as found on the Avatar Blu-ray directly onto my phone, a totally untouched m2ts file. I know my S3 wont play it, but the One plays it with MX player in software mode. its 95% smooth, just the odd stutter.
Thats impressive, very.
Edit: It seems my Nexus 10 will do as well, maybe its an A15 thing, because it doesn't work on any A9 based device ive tried it on.
Click to expand...
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Which file is it? 0003.m2ts or 0004.m2ts?

Not sure, I renamed it ages ago, dont have the rest of the disc as files any more.

rovex said:
Not sure, I renamed it ages ago, dont have the rest of the disc as files any more.
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What's the size of the file?

49ish MB

Look at fille properties in MX Player.

General
ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : BDAV
Format/Info : Blu-ray Video
File size : 49.8 MiB
Duration : 45s 34ms
Overall bit rate mode : Variable
Overall bit rate : 9 264 Kbps
Maximum Overall bit rate : 35.5 Mbps
Video
ID : 4113 (0x1011)
Menu ID : 1 (0x1)
Format : AVC
Format/Info : Advanced Video Codec
Format profile : [email protected]
Format settings, CABAC : Yes
Format settings, ReFrames : 3 frames
Codec ID : 27
Duration : 45s 45ms
Bit rate mode : Variable
Bit rate : 8 176 Kbps
Maximum bit rate : 24.0 Mbps
Width : 1 920 pixels
Height : 1 080 pixels
Display aspect ratio : 16:9
Frame rate : 23.976 fps
Color space : YUV
Chroma subsampling : 4:2:0
Bit depth : 8 bits
Scan type : Progressive
Bits/(Pixel*Frame) : 0.164
Stream size : 44.3 MiB (89%)
Writing library : x264 core 61

Look like my version of disc does not have that demo. It was one of those promotional discs packaged with Panasonic TV's. It is still great that HTC One plays files with such high bit rate.

I think it was on the first release 2D version.

starting to appreciate your HTC One?

Still has shoddy build quality, but yes its growing on me.

rovex said:
Still has shoddy build quality, but yes its growing on me.
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lets wait for the April batch before we call it shoddy
the One X is anything but
besides many people already confirmed receiving a flawless unit after replacing the imperfect first

Doesn't help my phone though does it and mine is a replacement. My Samsungs were all first batch, and flawless, every HTC ive had that was a launch phone has had issues with build. The One X was eventually well made, but had launch issues, so did the One S, and the One V.

The bitrate isn't particularly impressive on this file, the S3 plays stuff in the same range very smoothly for nearly all non-10 bit formats, on my Butterfly I've played an old HDDVD demo with a video bitrate of 40mb/s (H/W+ decoder). More impressive is the untouched m2ts.

I can't get the phone to play any videos other than what is recorded on it! mkv's, mp4's that work in several players i've had on the one x don't seem to run at all on this phone

It's played everything I've thrown at it so far. Currently only got the Final Fantasy films on it for now (i watch then delete.)
1080p movies have played perfectly.
Sent from my Tricked out HTC One via xda-developers application

Wont most android phones play mentioned video files through mx player pro.... thought it was only lame ios that put restrictions on file type's ??
Custom Stock Rom 4.1 Eternity
Brilliantly Stock

ipmanwck said:
Wont most android phones play mentioned video files through mx player pro.... thought it was only lame ios that put restrictions on file type's ??
Custom Stock Rom 4.1 Eternity
Brilliantly Stock
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Yes, I would have though either or both of MX Player and Dice Player should be able to play that file on lots of current Android devices. Can depend on exact encoding style and such like, 10-bit playback for example is still ropey regardless of device or player.

NZtechfreak said:
Yes, I would have though either or both of MX Player and Dice Player should be able to play that file on lots of current Android devices. Can depend on exact encoding style and such like, 10-bit playback for example is still ropey regardless of device or player.
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The files worked after I restarted the phone, I think I had some how made a corrupted Zoe and when I played it the video playing stopped working for everything. Hopefully this isn't a reoccurring thing!