Summary: Honeycomb UI great but buggy
Xoom hardware and build quality feel excellent but the screen isn't what it should be (iPad is better)
Xoom vs iPad vs Gtab ... FIGHT! (The Gtab lost... big time)
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So I left work early with a couple of co-workers to scout out the Xoom. We are all work in technology so we have a pretty good idea of what we want, but we all have different perspectives.
I am the lead Internet Infrastructure Enterprise Engineer for Continental/United Airlines and I own the Viewsonic Gtab, running VEGAn 1.0.0 beta 5.1.1 and the original Droid 1 running Ultimate Droid 3.0.1 (Gingerbread).
Nick, the iPad/iPhone 4 owner with us is a lead Systems Enterprise Engineer who's focus is Enterprise Active Directory with oversight of the Systems Engineering approval process.
Cory was third member of our scouting party and is a Systems Project Engineer whose focus is on consolidation of physical server chassis into Virtual Servers. He currently owns a Droid X, switching to Android from the iPhone 3GS. He and I were looking to potentially purchase the Xoom.
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Our collective impressions:
Positives:
-The Honeycomb interface is more efficient than the iPads adaption of the iPhone UI.
-Xoom hardware felt very solid and reassuring to hold, much better feeling in the hands than a Gtab. It made my Gtab feel plastic-y and bulky.
-You could certainly tell there was a Tegra 2 behind the scenes at work.
-A few of the built in, tablet optimized apps, were refreshing to see on an Android device.
Negatives:
-Screen quality lacked something to be desired, specifically for an $800 device. While it was usable, the nearly year old iPad still had a superior display.
-There is still some work to be done on the software side. The built in browser did not do well at all with large images in websites. ESPN home page was very jumpy and really choked up when zooming in on images, Where as the iPad and my Gtab running Dolphin were relatively smooth.
-The Market is currently lacking many tablet optimized applications, as we all know too well.
-We couldn't determine the sound quality because of an apparent bug. Either the device as 100% volume and very distorted or the sound was off. Changing the volume up or down made no change until you had gone all the way down and the sound turned off.
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From an enterprise support perspective, Honeycomb still has a ways to go before we could deploy Android tablets as a supported enterprise class device. Much for the same reasons that we do not deploy iPads. I hope that they address enterprise class authentication with user control so we can look at deploying these as enterprise devices. A small side note, Continental has both iOS and Android applications for customers to use but we also have in house iPad applications for ticket agents to use in assisting customers. The application is supported on the enterprise but the iPads themselves are treated like a dumb terminal and are not an endpoint on our network.
From a user/consumer perspective, the device certainly has potential but I feel that the price tag combined with the lack of application support and general software polish make this a niche product for uber geeks at best.
Cory did not end up walking out of Best Buy with the Xoom after all. Instead he decided to keep waiting patiently for a tablet that is more refined with a higher quality screen at that price point or to see what software updates may bring in conjunction with a price drop.
I personally will be hanging on to my Gtab for the time being, patiently waiting for a Honeycomb ROM (I'll certainly be donating to the devs who bring it to us)! I would like to see what the Samsung Galaxy 10.1 and the LG tablet bring and/or a sub $500 Xoom option before making the switch.
Edit: Steve Jobs had already informed Nick that he will be purchasing an iPad2... and Nick does the bidding of Steve for he is an iSheep under his watch and care.
This screen quality thing is becoming quite irritating =\
I might wait for the GTab10.1 as well.. to see if that fixes this. Or see the Xoom for myself.
I think its pretty obvious at this point that neither the Xoom or Honeycomb were ready for primetime, but that it was rushed to market to sell a bunch before the iPad 2 was announced and launched.
The screen looks fine to me after turning off auto-brightness since it was too dark. I don't have an iPad to compare but I do not see a problem with it except for the 6 inches of smudge from my fingers. Man this thing is a fingerprint magnet. I hope Invisible Shield will help with that. It helped my phone at least. But the quality is good enough for me.
keitht said:
The screen looks fine to me after turning off auto-brightness since it was too dark. I don't have an iPad to compare but I do not see a problem with it except for the 6 inches of smudge from my fingers. Man this thing is a fingerprint magnet. I hope Invisible Shield will help with that. It helped my phone at least. But the quality is good enough for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that by itself the screen looks ok. But for $800 we expected a little more. I really expected it to at least meet the iPad if not slightly outperform it.
Motorola has never been big on the screen specs, they have always been pretty content to stick to standard LCDs. The Samsung and LG may very well have better screen quality and could cost less.
I can hold out with my Viewsonic Gtab a while longer to see how this shakes out, especially it gets a Honeycomb ROM in the near future.
I would like to humbly point out that being a systems engineer doesn't necessarily qualify you as an expert of consumer level UI. I know many IT pros who would rather stare at a linux terminal than a beautifully designed interface.
I have a Xoom infront of me, and have used it for the better part of six hours, and would have to disagree with a few of your points. Playing with a device in a store with it tethered down and under horrible retail halogen lighting is not a good representation of any device.
keitht said:
The screen looks fine to me after turning off auto-brightness since it was too dark. I don't have an iPad to compare but I do not see a problem with it except for the 6 inches of smudge from my fingers. Man this thing is a fingerprint magnet. I hope Invisible Shield will help with that. It helped my phone at least. But the quality is good enough for me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x2. Two issues with the Xoom I demoed at Best Buy was that auto-brightness was turned on, and the lighting was terrible (enhanced glare).
I tested the thing for at least 10 minutes and at least several minutes was just the screen, since I'm a GTAB owner and have a hatred for the screen angles. I turned off auto-brightness, cranked up the brightness all the way, ignored the bad glare from the lights and looked at some wallpapers online. Then, I went over to the iPad and did the same, checking the angles. I could not see a noticeable difference.
Eclair~ said:
This screen quality thing is becoming quite irritating =\
I might wait for the GTab10.1 as well.. to see if that fixes this. Or see the Xoom for myself.
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Click to collapse
I wish the screen was better, but it works. The brightness is a bit on the low side when in well lite areas. It's maximum brights is about equal to ~40% on my Epic 4G. I'm probably over critical because I'm used to a SAMOLD display.
Screen brightness makes a world of difference on any screen. For a few days after I got my Droid, I kept thinking the screen didn't hold a candle to my year old iPod touch. Then I discovered the brightness setting and it was like having a new phone.
Also, I did a screen density hack that spread everything out, and that helped a ton, too. I'm sure after the devs get a crack at things, the XOOM will be a beast.
Paradox5582 said:
I would like to humbly point out that being a systems engineer doesn't necessarily qualify you as an expert of consumer level UI. I know many IT pros who would rather stare at a linux terminal than a beautifully designed interface.
I have a Xoom infront of me, and have used it for the better part of six hours, and would have to disagree with a few of your points. Playing with a device in a store with it tethered down and under horrible retail halogen lighting is not a good representation of any device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Point taken. I didn't mean to profess that any of us were consumer device experts. We are just avid technology geeks.
However, Nick and I are enterprise level architects and as such we have been evaluating many enterprise level products. I own the architectural guidance for infrastructure security, so I look at and devices with an eye to enterprise supportability, scalability and security and I have been evaluating devices such as the Cisco Cius, the HP Slate and the Avaya Flare with a view to enterprise deployment models.
I cannot comment on my thoughts of the Cius or Flare due to NDA. I can tell you that the Slate is in interesting device but it doesn't directly compete with true consumer tablets either. Windows tablets are really in a different category, more akin to an ultra mobile netbook.
As far as your UI vs terminal statement, we are a 100% Cisco shop and I spend my day happily staring at Cisco IOS (the real IOS) and ASA CLI. Our comments on the UI are merely our observations as end users and consumers ourselves.
The last point I will make is that screen quality is highly subjective and everyone tends to have their personal preference. For instance I am much less picky than Cory or Nick when it comes to screen quality but we all agreed that the iPad screen quality was better, in the lighting conditions we had.
arrtoodeetoo said:
Screen brightness makes a world of difference on any screen. For a few days after I got my Droid, I kept thinking the screen didn't hold a candle to my year old iPod touch. Then I discovered the brightness setting and it was like having a new phone.
Also, I did a screen density hack that spread everything out, and that helped a ton, too. I'm sure after the devs get a crack at things, the XOOM will be a beast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true, and I certainly hope that with some tweaking the screen quality can be improved. We did turn on and off auto brightness and adjust the brightness at different intervals to see the effect. With full brightness it looked nice, but it had a somewhat blue hue at full brightness.
Trust me I wanted very badly to be able to say that the Xoom had a better screen that the iPad, nothing would have made me happier but I just can't. They were comparable but as far as color, brightness and black/white contrast, the iPad had the Xoom beat. I still prefer 16:9 to 4:3 either way.
roebeet said:
x2. Two issues with the Xoom I demoed at Best Buy was that auto-brightness was turned on, and the lighting was terrible (enhanced glare).
I tested the thing for at least 10 minutes and at least several minutes was just the screen, since I'm a GTAB owner and have a hatred for the screen angles. I turned off auto-brightness, cranked up the brightness all the way, ignored the bad glare from the lights and looked at some wallpapers online. Then, I went over to the iPad and did the same, checking the angles. I could not see a noticeable difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We had the iPad, Gtab and Xoom touching side by side and we played with all three for about 30 minutes. We pulled up probably a dozen websites and compared side by side, change brightnesses and angles to reduce glare or increase glare. Like I said it was close, but when the iPad is right beside it, I saw a difference in just about every way.
My poor Gtab just kept looking crappier and crappier as we evaluated all three. Build quality no longer feels good, feels like a chubby plastic tablet. Screen bothers me now. The only saving grace is that VEGAn1.0.0 Beta 5.1.1 is just about as optimized as Honeycomb. With the help of Dolphin I was able to best the Xoom in several subjective web browsing tests.
The other sad thing is I had more tablet optimized apps than the Xoom comes with stock with the Norton and Galaxy app ports plus the few tablet apps out on the market. The Xoom apps were much more polished but there were still relatively few of them.
Thank you OP. Thoughtful and helpful. I will pass purchasing this hardware mostly due to price-point. I can afford the expense but the speaker location, display clarity, and brightness do not justify price. The OS is an impressive beginning to what will hopefully mature into a robust platform for productivity and business applications. Let's see what Sammy brings. Moto/VZW/Google fumbled IMO. I disagree with their pricing to compete with the superior iPad; when a strategy to undercut Apple pricing would have put this more dynamic OS and this quality device in position to gather rapid marketshare that would include android loyalists, android adopters, and the low hanging fruit represented by the potentially millions willing to join the tablet band wagon for a reasonable cost to see if these gadgets do hopefully become more than a sophisticated electronic content readers.
...sent from NxS
Paradox5582 said:
I would like to humbly point out that being a systems engineer doesn't necessarily qualify you as an expert of consumer level UI. I know many IT pros who would rather stare at a linux terminal than a beautifully designed interface.
I have a Xoom infront of me, and have used it for the better part of six hours, and would have to disagree with a few of your points. Playing with a device in a store with it tethered down and under horrible retail halogen lighting is not a good representation of any device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, screen quality is subjective unless you're doing a proper calibration of both (ie, set them to the same brightness levels) and running the same image tests on both.
Hopefully, Samsung will release a tab with a SAMOLED screen! I have an Evo and my friend the Galaxy S, we put the same wallpaper on both our phones and the SGS blows mine away.
Neo3D said:
I agree, screen quality is subjective unless you're doing a proper calibration of both (ie, set them to the same brightness levels) and running the same image tests on both.
Hopefully, Samsung will release a tab with a SAMOLED screen! I have an Evo and my friend the Galaxy S, we put the same wallpaper on both our phones and the SGS blows mine away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read the Anandtech review of the Xoom. They go in depth and discuss the screen with valid measurements and say that its slightly worse than the iPad's screen.
muyoso said:
Read the Anandtech review of the Xoom. They go in depth and discuss the screen with valid measurements and say that its slightly worse than the iPad's screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I agree I love Anandtech. They do some great, through reviews. Here's the much debated part about the screen:
http://www.anandtech.com/show/4191/motorola-xoom-review-first-honeycomb-tablet-arrives/2
bmangold said:
Point taken. I didn't mean to profess that any of us were consumer device experts. We are just avid technology geeks.
However, Nick and I are enterprise level architects and as such we have been evaluating many enterprise level products. I own the architectural guidance for infrastructure security, so I look at and devices with an eye to enterprise supportability, scalability and security and I have been evaluating devices such as the Cisco Cius, the HP Slate and the Avaya Flare with a view to enterprise deployment models.
I cannot comment on my thoughts of the Cius or Flare due to NDA. I can tell you that the Slate is in interesting device but it doesn't directly compete with true consumer tablets either. Windows tablets are really in a different category, more akin to an ultra mobile netbook.
As far as your UI vs terminal statement, we are a 100% Cisco shop and I spend my day happily staring at Cisco IOS (the real IOS) and ASA CLI. Our comments on the UI are merely our observations as end users and consumers ourselves.
The last point I will make is that screen quality is highly subjective and everyone tends to have their personal preference. For instance I am much less picky than Cory or Nick when it comes to screen quality but we all agreed that the iPad screen quality was better, in the lighting conditions we had.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm glad you took the post the way I intended it. I realized that after I posted the friendly tone may not have been obvious.
bmangold said:
Here's the much debated part about the screen
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Click to collapse
Well, the good news is that in every case tested the Xoom's screen fared better than the one on my EVO 4G, and I really like my EVO's screen.
I turned off the auto-brightness and cranked the brightness all the way up last night. It made the screen look much better. On my N1, this drains the battery way too fast, on the Xoom it didn't seem to make a noticeable difference. It obviously makes a quantifiable difference in battery life, but the life is still amazing enough to not be annoying.
Related
I have had an ipad since release. We have used it for school, presentations, documents, email, etc. I can already say it is nothing compared to the xoom.
I've had it less than a day, and I have run into a few quirks. The ipad did too, like wifi dropping on me constantly on release. Anyhow, just sitting here chatting with a friend, browsing the market, internet, xda, etc, I can't help but notice how much better it is than my ipad. Quickly swapping between apps, voice input, etc. I can plug it into the TV and instantly show my wife an article I've found.
Sure the apps aren't there yet, but they will be. The quirks will be fixed, and it can only get better. For all the "I'm taking it back" threads I just don't get it. I'm hooked.
This is the tablet I was looking for.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
i envy you. I originally was going to wait for the xoom but i got impatient and bought an ipad. Then xoom came out and i sold my ipad and bought it. First day amazed, second annoyed. Im getting ALOT of keyboard lag and I need a good pdf reader. The ones for the phone are not cutting it. Tried ez and repligo both lag like crazy.
Definitely returning this for the xoom for ipad 2. Ipad 2 will be my placeholder until Honeycomb gets more apps and bugs fixed.
iPad has nothing over the Xoom? Really? Not even a better screen (I would take IPS and much much better viewing angles and color reproduction over higher resolution)? Lighter weight? Thinner body? Better, more diverse accessories? And that's not even mentioning the better app store at launch which you just handwaved away but a lot of us consider to be pretty important.
It's one thing to be a fan of the Xoom (which I am). I'll even admit that I do have an anti-Apple bias and that I'll probably never purchase an Apple product. But it's another to completely toss all objectivity out the window and just become a cheerleader for a product that so obviously isn't perfect.
It's not as if the benefits I listed above are limited to Apple. Samsung's new Honeycomb tablet is taking care of 3, potentially 4, things from that list. It'll have a lighter weight than even the iPad 2, a thinner body than even the iPad 1 and Xoom, all while having pretty much the same internals as the Xoom. It also might have a better screen (still looking into this). And the delayed release of the product after the release of the SDK means launch customers will have a lot more apps available to them.
Liking a device doesn't mean you have to be blind to it's shortcomings.
EDIT: I just noticed that most of my recent posts are criticisms of the Xoom and I want to clarify. I'm not trying to bash the product. I just think we should be holding Honeycomb tablet makers to, at the bare minimum, the standards that Apple has set with its wildly successful iPad. Clearly that's being done with some factors. Xoom has more connectivity options, a higher resolution screen, an OS that's better suited for tablet work and productivity, etc. But it's obviously not being done with others, especially screen quality which is a huge HUGE deal with tablets, and I don't think Honeycomb tablet manufacturers should get a pass on that.
You plug your tablet into a tv to show her an article?
I own both as well and I love the potential here but wouldn't say that the I pad 1 has nothing on the xoom. The screen is better as mentioned before. Colors and viewing angles. Also overall OS smoothness. The ipad is silky smooth everywhere. The Xoom is smooth sometime then it gets choppy. Right now that is my biggest disappointment. I mean functionally it is fine the the chop gets a little annoying tbh.
On the ipad for example I neverrrrr had a case of music coming in and out while I surfed the web or download files using filer. On this device I randomly get delays in sound when I perform other tasks. Like ashura3 mentioned not to hate on the xoom after all I actually have one and I am going to keep it for sure but being objective the ipad is pretty slick in what it actually does. And insult to injury google and Motorola have had alot of time to look at what apple did before shipping this device. We are comparing the almost 1 year old device on top of that all the early reports and videos I watched and read about yesterday on the ipad show an extremely fast polished ipad2.
I understand its limited in certain aspect but take like functions or apps and compare how the work and objectively it is hard to say the I pad has nothing on the xoom.
ashura3 said:
It also might have a better screen (still looking into this). And the delayed release of the product after the release of the SDK means launch customers will have a lot more apps available to them.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If I supply is correct the display is a 16bit tft. That would explain the differences I see when looking at the two and comparing the IPS 32bit display on the ipad. All the other downsides of the Xoom can be easily addressed but like the lack of SD or 4g upgrade on the ipad, there is no way the xoom screen will be as nice unfortunately. It isn't a terrible screen but there is a difference and it is pretty obvious to everyone I nave showed both devices to.
But the iPad 2 has a magnetic dust cover!!!!
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA Premium App
I have an ipad and just got the Xoom. The Xoom is certainly a nice device, I don't think the screen is so bad but it isn't IPS.
I think Motorola blew it big time although I hope they do succeed. They should have released the wifi version before Apple announced the ipad 2 event. As a consumer that just wants a wifi tablet, are you really going to spend $800 on a Xoom or $500 (less for a ipad 1) for a ipad? Even if both are the same price, how many people do you think are going to buy the Xoom over an ipad? Let's hope the Xoom does better than the Zune.
The whole user experience of the Xoom isn't nearly as good as what iOS offers. I'm keeping my Xoom as I would rather have Android than Apple (sd slot, usb and I like the file system better for my field work). If Apple had released a 2x res screen with sd slot as some rumors had mentioned, I would have stuck with iOS.
Long term, Android has a good shot but I don't see the Xoom making a dent getting Apple's market share. The cost, hardware and software don't surpass the Apple user experience. There is no compelling reason to switch from iOS or choose Android unless you're a fan of the platform.
I don't have an iphone nor a Mac so no fanboy here but you can't beat the ipod and the ipad is getting to be just as iconic. Jha has done a good job but I think he completely underestimates what Apple is in the market to think that the Xoom is going to compete against the ipad at the same cost.
google voice... the ipad has it...
Ehhhh.... this is what were supposed to do. Early adopters are basically testers, if you guys see anything you don't like, email google and suggest them. You guys are doing a great job of testing out the device. Also, in order for android tablet apps to increase in numbers fast, there's gotta be customers for developers to sell to right? I purchased a xoom to fill my needs, it does get laggy sometimes but it isnt such a dealbreaker to me right now. Looking at the I pad 1 or 2 it doesn't matter. It's still the same ****ty grids of icons from page to page. But I,too, really think motorola should just release the damn wifi version before the I pad 2 takes a whole bunch of customers.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
My emphasis was more on the software experience rather than hardware. I don't see how iOS is going to hold its own once Honeycomb has its kinks worked out. The user experience is just that superior to the iOS grid of icons.
The xoom isn't that special for hardware. Every few months something faster or thinner or brighter is going to come along, but I don't see Apple drastically changing their operating system anytime soon and I think Honeycomb itself is going to be the real threat.
Sent from my PC36100 using XDA App
Sirchuk said:
My emphasis was more on the software experience rather than hardware...
The xoom isn't that special for hardware... but I don't see Apple drastically changing their operating system anytime soon and I think Honeycomb itself is going to be the real threat.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AMEN to that! I was just thinking that this morning... This isn't really a "war" between Apple and non-Apple. It's about user experience, needs etc. Since hardware is always obsolete the moment you leave the store (or click check out) the software is the main determinant. Unfortunately, it looks bad right now for HC. But the more I see users post their homescreens with all the wild widgets and customization going on the more I feel "home". I LOVE the apps on the iPad and the screen (I'm playing with a coworker's iPad today) but the user experience is reminiscent of my iPhone...
Just out of curiousity, does anyone know what the Frequency Response is on the Xoom, I can't find it listed anywhere in the specifications. I know its listed for the iPad. I would like to know what it is on the Xoom though.
Anyone?
Being an owner of both, I have to say that the iPad has the luxury of being on the market for a whole year. Last April, iPad was in the same position as a Xoom is today with the uncertainty, bugs and the like. Compairing to Xoom today, its not really in that bad of a position. My Xoom has already replaced my ipad and I'm super excited to see where this thing can go.
I've had my Xoom since launch, and have not had a single issue of lag, or sound problems. Everything has ran very smoothly... Not a android or apple fanboy, I've used them all, i just like the notification system and widgets on honeycomb much better than the ipad.
Hi,
Very interesting and informative forum.
Though part and parcel of all such forums I do begin to ponder if our expectations of such a device as the XZ are on times realistic?
Battery life: Consider this, Full 1080 x 1920 5" HD screen. Quad core 1,5GB. 2GB RAM. Not to mention Wi-Fi, blu tooth, GPS and NTC. Place this inside an ultra thin robust superbly crafted mobile and is it so surprising the battery has its limitations? I think not.
We simply have to accept that this new breed of super phone is going to push battery levels to the limit. We cannot realistically compare such a mobile even with a modern phone dating back 12 months! Sure I have owned phones that have needed charging only twice per week but it was 'just' a phone.
Viewing angles. WHAT is this all about. May I, with respect, ask any one who places their phone in the kitchen and expects to see it form the third floor. Gross exaggeration there BUT its equally odd and questionable why some reviewers harp on about viewing angle? Unless I have been doing something wrong with my mobiles dating back to 1989 then I cant think why such a parameter is even mentioned. I don't want the person sitting next to me on the train looking at what I type in an SMS etc? WHO holds there mobile at 45degrees to their viewing line of site and why?
Considering this mobile will perform what it used to take maybe 6 other separate devices to perform in one sleek elegant package I am not surprised it requires charging every night. I am rather shocked given its specification it works at all? Fantastic technology wrapped into such a wonderful mobile and so well made. No, I do not begrudge my XZ having something to eat every evening.
I have managed three days without charging providing I use with caution... Telephone calls and SMS's don't appear to drain the battery any more than previous well outdated mobiles did.
Washed out colours? I own the Samsung galaxy S2 and S3 plus the Note and come to mention it the nexus S and to me its a question of choice and preference. I was spellbound with the colours of the S3 BUT after a time it became hard on my eyes to view such over exaggerated highly saturated colours. Life is not like that! Place the XZ side to side with most of my Samsung range and their IS a difference and I am pleased there is. I now find the XZ colour reproduction much more realistic and less strain to view for long periods of time. I am not saying one is better than the other they are different, I now prefer the XZ.
Choice is a wonderful thing and it has taken decades of conflict to ensure we have it. We should appreciate the choices we have and enjoy as many of them as we can while we can.
Congratulations to Sony and the world of technology for giving us such devices. Think outside the box, look at your XZ, its rather ingenious don't you think!
Kind regards to you all.
The only I hope better was viewing angle.
Ya, we look 99% phone straight view, means viewing angle not affecting much.
But......... it do affect me slightly when playing temple run type of games.
The only improvement I seen need at Z or ZL is better display panel, at least given us SLCD2 and better SLCD3.
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Some said washed out color, hmmm.......... I really no idea about this, they is confirm no washed out color.
"Life is not like that!" - actually Sony did much vibrant than any Samsung AMOLED flagship phone when you view photos / videos using bundle apps with Bravia Engine 2 turn on. The cool part here is Sony tune it nicer than Samsung as it look much appealing and real even it is extreme vivid. Sometimes I do hope Bravia Engine 2 will work also in at least the launcher wallpaper.
Battery & Viewing Angle
Ryland Johnson said:
Hi,
Very interesting and informative forum.
Though part and parcel of all such forums I do begin to ponder if our expectations of such a device as the XZ are on times realistic?
Battery life: Consider this, Full 1080 x 1920 5" HD screen. Quad core 1,5GB. 2GB RAM. Not to mention Wi-Fi, blu tooth, GPS and NTC. Place this inside an ultra thin robust superbly crafted mobile and is it so surprising the battery has its limitations? I think not.
We simply have to accept that this new breed of super phone is going to push battery levels to the limit. We cannot realistically compare such a mobile even with a modern phone dating back 12 months! Sure I have owned phones that have needed charging only twice per week but it was 'just' a phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I really don't think battery life is bad at all. I leave WiFi on 24/7 and several voip apps and I easily get home every day with 14 hours use time and 30-40% battery left. I use the screen for 2-3 hours (on the train). I'm going to attach my battery life screenshot for yesterday. (The part with the rapid fall near the end is when I was watching youtube on the train on the way home...)
Ryland Johnson said:
Viewing angles. WHAT is this all about. May I, with respect, ask any one who places their phone in the kitchen and expects to see it form the third floor. Gross exaggeration there BUT its equally odd and questionable why some reviewers harp on about viewing angle? Unless I have been doing something wrong with my mobiles dating back to 1989 then I cant think why such a parameter is even mentioned. I don't want the person sitting next to me on the train looking at what I type in an SMS etc? WHO holds there mobile at 45 degrees to their viewing line of site and why?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is interesting, because one of the things I *don't* like about Sony is that their phones are missing something that all other Japanese makers (Sharp, Fujitsu, NEC, etc.) have as a standard feature - Veil View. This feature makes it much more impossible to read the phone from an angle by using a special LCD technology, while viewing it straight-on is only slightly impaired. This is such a strongly demanded feature that there are several apps in the Android market that attempt to emulate it for phones without the hardware support. (They can't change based on the angle though, so they make it just as hard to read for the actual user!
I think the viewing angles feature is being used to compare larger screens aka TV, monitors where it does matter since the screen will be seen from different positions but since a phone as far as I know is single user oriented it's a pointless subject of review.
Sent from my LG-P990 using xda premium
Ok so I just happened uppon a way to upgrade my note 2014 to the 12.2 basically for free. It will cost me about 35 dollars. Its something that only applies to me btw. Since I can so cheaply do you guys think it would be worth it? I use mine as my main computing solution. All my email, internet browsing etc. I also use it to run my personal training business and work with it as a notepad during training sessions. I think hancom will be great as well because Im currently working on articles explaining the benefits of weight training for parkour athletes. Im pretty tempted by the extra screen real estate and bigger area for taking more detailed notes. I love my root apps though and cant find if anyone in the uk has had any success rooting theirs yet.
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Duly.noted said:
Ok so I just happened uppon a way to upgrade my note 2014 to the 12.2 basically for free. It will cost me about 35 dollars. Its something that only applies to me btw. Since I can so cheaply do you guys think it would be worth it? I use mine as my main computing solution. All my email, internet browsing etc. I also use it to run my personal training business and work with it as a notepad during training sessions. I think hancom will be great as well because Im currently working on articles explaining the benefits of weight training for parkour athletes. Im pretty tempted by the extra screen real estate and bigger area for taking more detailed notes. I love my root apps though and cant find if anyone in the uk has had any success rooting theirs yet.
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Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They are just released today (in the US) it will take some time before root is achieved (if ever), so it's going be a risk that you have to take!
Duly.noted said:
Ok so I just happened uppon a way to upgrade my note 2014 to the 12.2 basically for free. It will cost me about 35 dollars. Its something that only applies to me btw. Since I can so cheaply do you guys think it would be worth it? I use mine as my main computing solution. All my email, internet browsing etc. I also use it to run my personal training business and work with it as a notepad during training sessions. I think hancom will be great as well because Im currently working on articles explaining the benefits of weight training for parkour athletes. Im pretty tempted by the extra screen real estate and bigger area for taking more detailed notes. I love my root apps though and cant find if anyone in the uk has had any success rooting theirs yet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Truthfully, since you didn't mention consumption at all, I'd get neither. I'd probably get this...
Quite a few people here are putting a lot of faith in Hancom Office for Android based on their PC product line. For me, the jury's still out. It looks great in pics and video but the real test is how formatting it applies is picked up in "real" Office when viewed by others. Also printing and sharing are issues the other faux-office products have.
Tablets are used for consumption and productivity. Android is biased toward consumption and Windows toward productivity. For people that could care less about consumption or feel it's a lower priority Windows tablets would be a better choice. Hancom Office, even if it's good, isn't going to magically change the shortcomings Android has working in a Windows/networked business environment. Otherwise they wouldn't be partnering with Samsung to give it away for free and they'd be making a killing selling it on Play.
As for your particular situation, the 12 is heavy and bulky and you mentioned carrying it. That's a negative. As a primary device used for the things you listed the bigger screen is a definite benefit. After the N10.1-14 gets M-UX, assuming we don't/can't get Hancom Office, that's another decision point for you. No one here uses their tablets (or other PC devices they might have) the same way so you're going to get a slew of conflicting opinions.
Happy deciding.
For me nothing replaces my laptop and full size keyboard and mouse for real productivity work and my tablet is more of a note taking / carry with me device so I like the size of the 10.1
If I had to write documents and articles or work in Excel or PowerPoint on a table I'd be miserable. The tablet is fine for reviewing then and making minor changes, but not to do the bulk of the writing.
I was planning to buy the PRO 12.2 but I felt tired after holding the iPad 2 for a few minutes. I believe the iPad 2 is 601g. Now I am thinking whether I should just get the 10.1 2014 and hope that the software could be upgraded in the near future. Nice if I could get Remote Desktop PC and M-UX later. The main use for the tablet is pdf annotation, web browsing and video watching on the bus and in restaurants. Any opinion?
I probably will trade in my 15" MBP (2.1kg) for an upcoming MacBook Air 13" for more serious work.
BarryH_GEG said:
Truthfully, since you didn't mention consumption at all, I'd get neither. I'd probably get this...
Quite a few people here are putting a lot of faith in Hancom Office for Android based on their PC product line. For me, the jury's still out. It looks great in pics and video but the real test is how formatting it applies is picked up in "real" Office when viewed by others. Also printing and sharing are issues the other faux-office products have.
Tablets are used for consumption and productivity. Android is biased toward consumption and Windows toward productivity. For people that could care less about consumption or feel it's a lower priority Windows tablets would be a better choice. Hancom Office, even if it's good, isn't going to magically change the shortcomings Android has working in a Windows/networked business environment. Otherwise they wouldn't be partnering with Samsung to give it away for free and they'd be making a killing selling it on Play.
As for your particular situation, the 12 is heavy and bulky and you mentioned carrying it. That's a negative. As a primary device used for the things you listed the bigger screen is a definite benefit. After the N10.1-14 gets M-UX, assuming we don't/can't get Hancom Office, that's another decision point for you. No one here uses their tablets (or other PC devices they might have) the same way so you're going to get a slew of conflicting opinions.
Happy deciding.
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Click to collapse
I hate windows 8 so much I may never purchase a windows product again. I cant stand it at all. And I guess I did leave out consumption I watch alot of netflix and other shows and do alot of browsing. My productivity is really for book keeping (tax purposes) having clients hand sign documents and some word docs. But those are pretty basic usually so I doubt there would be any format errors. I also play a few emulators from time to time.
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Duly.noted said:
I hate windows 8 so much I may never purchase a windows product again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm still on Windows 7 and have no immediate plans of moving.
BarryH_GEG said:
I'm still on Windows 7 and have no immediate plans of moving.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I Know. That is one major reason I wort get the Surface. I can get a better laptop at that price and a better
tablet too
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Family photo.
My main knock against it is the lower dpi means that pentile is that much more apparent. I don't think I could ever go to the 12" because of that. I'm quite happy with only occasionally noticing the 10.1" pentile artifacts. I was kind of hoping Samsung would think oh wait the pentile is going to show up too much here and switch to a non-pentile screen. But nope.
I was really wanting the 12.2, but since it would be heavy to hold for long periods of time I decided to skip it. Even the 10.1 sometimes can be a bit heavy if you hold it up for long periods of time. Unless you are going to use it on a table I would say no.
Sent from my SM-N9005 using Tapatalk
Oh 12.2 is laptop size screen !!!
Stocklone said:
My main knock against it is the lower dpi means that pentile is that much more apparent. I don't think I could ever go to the 12" because of that. I'm quite happy with only occasionally noticing the 10.1" pentile artifacts. I was kind of hoping Samsung would think oh wait the pentile is going to show up too much here and switch to a non-pentile screen. But nope.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. The 12.2 Pro should have gotten an even further resolution bump. Pentile has pissed me off since the early Galaxy S series phones. Yet that is all I use, hoping the Samsung realizes that pentile needs to get scrapped.
Stocklone said:
My main knock against it is the lower dpi means that pentile is that much more apparent. I don't think I could ever go to the 12" because of that. I'm quite happy with only occasionally noticing the 10.1" pentile artifacts. I was kind of hoping Samsung would think oh wait the pentile is going to show up too much here and switch to a non-pentile screen. But nope.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
cjranucci said:
I agree. The 12.2 Pro should have gotten an even further resolution bump. Pentile has pissed me off since the early Galaxy S series phones. Yet that is all I use, hoping the Samsung realizes that pentile needs to get scrapped.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a loooong discussion in the below thread discussing visual acuity, PPI, and PenTile. For all that's Holy, if you want to discuss either Note's display in detail continue the discussion there.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=2615750&page=6
The N10.1-14 actually has more RGB pixels-per-inch than the iPad Air so whatever the two of you are seeing it's not being caused by a PPI deficit. As for the N12, yes, its pixel reduction is putting it perilously close to the point that people with 20/20 vision could detect it's a non-standard display when held 10-12" away.
From that thread...
From a sub-pixel perspective, the extra white pixel is reducing the overall count of RGB sub-pixels. With 25% of the overall sub-pixels being white, that’s the amount red, green, and blue have been collectively reduced. Distributing that over the three their overall count is reduced by 8% each; meaning rather than 299 per inch of each there are 275. That’s still at the count needed to achieve an arcminute sub tense of “1” for people with 20/20 vision at a viewing distance of 10-12” away. And 10-12" away is for smartphones with smaller displays. Tablets are typically held further away. And here’s the fun part, that number is still higher than the 264 PPI of the new iPad Air. So people saying they can see jaggies on the N10.1-14 when compared to the iPad Air can’t possibly be because the the former actually has more RGB pixels per inch than the latter in spite of the addition of the additional white pixels.
So...the Samsung weenies blinked. We now have the Samsung TabPro S...a....wait for it...Windows 10 tablet. I have a little throw up in the back of my mouth. 12 inch screen, lower resolution screen than the note 12.2. A little more ram. Thats it. But saddled with windows 10....more throw up.
So that pretty much tells the story. We are orphaned. Let the rooting begin.
To tell you the truth I would love to have Windows 10 on my Note Pro now. Perfect size, excellent screen, hardware isn't too shabby, and fantastic Wacom digitizer.
Anyone else feels the same?
If you want a true laptop replacement I can see W10 being more what you want. For my uses, reading comics, surfing the web, and maybe taking a note or two, Android is almost certainly a better OS. Just wish the verizon version was rootable on 5.1.1.
It was never abour "a laptop replacement" ....it was about having instant access to the net and usefull apps, with no wait and no weight. It was about having information and entertainment access available any time, any where, with enough power away from a wall plug to do useful things. It was about evolving from the keyboard/screen clamshell that needed a flat surface or fire resistant thighs to fully function. It was about freedom.
I was thinking of buying the new one once it's on sale and I see the pen. Then loading Remix OS on it.
globalsearch said:
It was never abour "a laptop replacement" ....it was about having instant access to the net and usefull apps, with no wait and no weight. It was about having information and entertainment access available any time, any where, with enough power away from a wall plug to do useful things. It was about evolving from the keyboard/screen clamshell that needed a flat surface or fire resistant thighs to fully function. It was about freedom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're absolutely right. The Note Pro is all those things. My needs for the device just simply change after two years, that's all. This was the perfect device then, but not anymore. It would have been perfect for me if this exact same hardware suddenly can run Windows 10, but that's not the case.
I understand that I'm going to have to sell this and buy something else (possibly one of those 2-in-1 Windows 10 devices, which are pretty popular), but the Note Pro is such a sweet device that I love so much that I don't really want to let it go.
globalsearch said:
It was never abour "a laptop replacement" ....it was about having instant access to the net and usefull apps, with no wait and no weight. It was about having information and entertainment access available any time, any where, with enough power away from a wall plug to do useful things. It was about evolving from the keyboard/screen clamshell that needed a flat surface or fire resistant thighs to fully function. It was about freedom.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use mine as a full laptop/desktop/tv replacement. (Picture attached)
At home I actually haven't had access to an OS besides android for a few years now.
I agree its not for everyone and probably not even for most people.
but it works pretty well once you get used to it.
on a side note I will admit they make us use windows primarily at work, so some of my work from home is done through teamviewer as one of our customers uses a VPN that only allows connections from my work network.
but even with that issue 50% of my work can be done naively and even if I was using another OS I would still have the same limitation.
In my case its more about flexibility.
when I'm not working I can use it as a tablet and browse 9gag or watch netflix etc.
I can connect a controller to it and play games. (this is also fun to do when in the car waiting for people. it plays playstation and N64 games flawlessly)
when working I can set it up in full desktop mode and work just as well as if I was at the office.
Anyways I really agree with you in a majority scenario but I thought someone might benefit from knowing there is a fringe minority like me that use it for everything.
I would have loved the TabPro S if it didn't have the crappy AMOLED screen and had 3G/LTE with SMS and phone call support.
fvig2001 said:
I would have loved the TabPro S if it didn't have the crappy AMOLED screen and had 3G/LTE with SMS and phone call support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It makes you wonder what the defective thinking is in management. The Note Pro 12.2 set a high bar for screen resolution. Why for goodness sake would you come out with a new iteration, TWO years later, and put in a screen with LOWER resolution. Its like making 8 or 16gb phones today. Really?
Yesterday I was cleaning out some things in the back room. CAME ACROSS MY FIRST DIGITAL CAMERA I EVER BOUGHT. It is a Fuji MX-700. Paid like 500 for it in early 1999. Still works. It used these small flat memory cards called Smart Media. I pulled the card out. It was 16MB. They where expensive then. My first IBM PC clone in 1982 had a 10mb full sized Shugart drive. It weighed almost 12 pounds. Here is this card with 1.5x more memory the size of a 1inch piece or cardboard, some 17 years later. Today, we have 200GB micro sd cards the size of my pinky finger's tip. My point is that technology is ever increasing and miniaturizing and improving. That is why it is becoming more integrated into our lives. Why did Samsung hire marketing department pinheads to not only hold back but reverse progress on their products?
I remember all the negative reviews that the note pro received. Oh it's too heavy. It's too big. Stick with the 9 inch model. Oh and the Apple pinheads. It' crap, too big, yada yada yada. Now, today, look at the ipad pro. Since its an apple product, it must be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Of course. So much for unbiased reporting and product review.
And the switch to the privacy robbing win10, wow. I would have thrown a little development into a reliable wine like portal for the must-have windows legacy applications.
Terrible thinking.
Hey, the heck with the 60" 4k flat screen in the living. I got a 9" black and white tv here thats been the cats meow since 1975. Hello Samsung, hire me.!!!!
fvig2001 said:
I would have loved the TabPro S if it didn't have the crappy AMOLED screen and had 3G/LTE with SMS and phone call support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
globalsearch said:
It makes you wonder what the defective thinking is in management. The Note Pro 12.2 set a high bar for screen resolution. Why for goodness sake would you come out with a new iteration, TWO years later, and put in a screen with LOWER resolution. Its like making 8 or 16gb phones today. Really?
Yesterday I was cleaning out some things in the back room. CAME ACROSS MY FIRST DIGITAL CAMERA I EVER BOUGHT. It is a Fuji MX-700. Paid like 500 for it in early 1999. Still works. It used these small flat memory cards called Smart Media. I pulled the card out. It was 16MB. They where expensive then. My first IBM PC clone in 1982 had a 10mb full sized Shugart drive. It weighed almost 12 pounds. Here is this card with 1.5x more memory the size of a 1inch piece or cardboard, some 17 years later. Today, we have 200GB micro sd cards the size of my pinky finger's tip. My point is that technology is ever increasing and miniaturizing and improving. That is why it is becoming more integrated into our lives. Why did Samsung hire marketing department pinheads to not only hold back but reverse progress on their products?
I remember all the negative reviews that the note pro received. Oh it's too heavy. It's too big. Stick with the 9 inch model. Oh and the Apple pinheads. It' crap, too big, yada yada yada. Now, today, look at the ipad pro. Since its an apple product, it must be the greatest thing since sliced bread. Of course. So much for unbiased reporting and product review.
And the switch to the privacy robbing win10, wow. I would have thrown a little development into a reliable wine like portal for the must-have windows legacy applications.
Terrible thinking.
Hey, the heck with the 60" 4k flat screen in the living. I got a 9" black and white tv here thats been the cats meow since 1975. Hello Samsung, hire me.!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How is the screen crappy? It is well-reviewed. The Galaxy Note 12.2 Pro has a pentile screen which has only 20% more subpixels than an equivalent size 1080p normal RGB submatrix screen ...
As for the windows tablet, whatever; I wouldn't buy it simply because they only have 4 gb of ram which is not enough for a windows device in this day and age.
Samsung always tries to achieve scale with its technologies which is why it sometimes puts its underperforming phone SOC's into their tablets instead of giving us an upscale version like Apple does.
I'm guessing there's a good chance they use the screen in an Android tablet release later this year or another manufacturer uses the screen in a device.
I like my note pro 12.2 but the android tablet market sucks and Samsung is still the best of a very short list of android tablet makers.
Diogenes5 said:
How is the screen crappy? It is well-reviewed. The Galaxy Note 12.2 Pro has a pentile screen which has only 20% more subpixels than an equivalent size 1080p normal RGB submatrix screen ...
Yes the screen may be better in due to the AMOLED setup but it is still AMOLED. The screen quality will diminish quickly since it is using Windows due to static screen elements. Have you been to stores with AMOLED displays? The demo units that use them tend to degrade so badly. It's literally just used so that it would save battery and make sure you buy a replacement in 1-2 years.
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Click to collapse
fvig2001 said:
Diogenes5 said:
How is the screen crappy? It is well-reviewed. The Galaxy Note 12.2 Pro has a pentile screen which has only 20% more subpixels than an equivalent size 1080p normal RGB submatrix screen ...
Yes the screen may be better in due to the AMOLED setup but it is still AMOLED. The screen quality will diminish quickly since it is using Windows due to static screen elements. Have you been to stores with AMOLED displays? The demo units that use them tend to degrade so badly. It's literally just used so that it would save battery and make sure you buy a replacement in 1-2 years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you look at my signature, I have a galaxy tab s 10.5 that I use very heavily as my main e-reader and movie/tv-show viewer. It has no ghosting no image retention. I bought it heavily used too. Yeah, an oled that's left on the same wallpaper for basically 24 hours a day for a year at a store kiosk will have terrible burn-in. And the oled wears down from heavy use and gets lesser luminosity.
The timeline for this happening in normal use, even heavy normal use, is probably in the timeline of 5 years or more. In the meantime, an amoled display will have infinite contrast, near-perfect color accuracy or eye-popping saturation in cinema mode and better battery life if you use night themes.
Overall amoleds have such good color quality and performance charactertistics now that their drawbacks are minor in comparison. The note pro 12.2 has a nice screen but it's impossible for me to use it at night because of the backlight being too bright even with programs like twilight to dim it. An amoled screen is amazing and far superior.
Now windows getting stuck and making you have image retention might be a problem, but Samsung dealt with the issue according to all reviews.
I am hoping that they come out with an amoled note android tablet this year. I was hoping for this to be the case last year after their first-gen tab s devices but alas, there was nothing. I'm guessing the 12.2 pro didn't sell that well. I can live without windows, there's too much bloat that limits battery life and the interface still sucks donkey balls for a tablet. I'm hoping apple opened a new market up with the 12" ipad and samsung feels confident enough to release an amoled Note 12.2 successor.
I just remote access on my note pro right now if I need windows for the most part. The only upside is having a more powerful version of one-note. Otherwise, I could care less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Diogenes5 said:
fvig2001 said:
If you look at my signature, I have a galaxy tab s 10.5 that I use very heavily as my main e-reader and movie/tv-show viewer. It has no ghosting no image retention. I bought it heavily used too. Yeah, an oled that's left on the same wallpaper for basically 24 hours a day for a year at a store kiosk will have terrible burn-in. And the oled wears down from heavy use and gets lesser luminosity.
The timeline for this happening in normal use, even heavy normal use, is probably in the timeline of 5 years or more. In the meantime, an amoled display will have infinite contrast, near-perfect color accuracy or eye-popping saturation in cinema mode and better battery life if you use night themes.
Overall amoleds have such good color quality and performance charactertistics now that their drawbacks are minor in comparison. The note pro 12.2 has a nice screen but it's impossible for me to use it at night because of the backlight being too bright even with programs like twilight to dim it. An amoled screen is amazing and far superior.
Now windows getting stuck and making you have image retention might be a problem, but Samsung dealt with the issue according to all reviews.
I am hoping that they come out with an amoled note android tablet this year. I was hoping for this to be the case last year after their first-gen tab s devices but alas, there was nothing. I'm guessing the 12.2 pro didn't sell that well. I can live without windows, there's too much bloat that limits battery life and the interface still sucks donkey balls for a tablet. I'm hoping apple opened a new market up with the 12" ipad and samsung feels confident enough to release an amoled Note 12.2 successor.
I just remote access on my note pro right now if I need windows for the most part. The only upside is having a more powerful version of one-note. Otherwise, I could care less.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I concur wholeheartedly with this.
I have a samsung vibrant that I used very heavily for 5 years and only saw minor ghosting in the notification area towards the end of the 4th year.
even then it was only noticeable if you were in landscape with a blank white screen.
A note tablet in the 12 inch range with an amoled screen would be absolutely amazing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Folks if you are thinking of upgrading to the Tab S3: do not do it, it has a massive power drain bug that is likely a hardware issue at this point:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/galaxy-tab-s3/how-to/wifi-power-drain-bug-please-report-to-t3624872
I miss my good old S2.
Wouldn't touch it - don't like the available sizes. Happy with my 8" Tab S2.
...........
I wasn't interested in it either. The breakable glass back totally turned me off, as well as the unimpressive processor. I don't think Samsung put the proper effort into it, except for designing the price tag, and my two Tab S2's are going good, and if the screen didn't break my older Google Nexus 7 would be too. What I have been ogling is the new Ipad Pro 12 or 10, tho I never owned an Apple product before.
penguinjoe said:
Wouldn't touch it - don't like the available sizes. Happy with my 8" Tab S2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Totally agree penguin. Battery isn't great, but ergonomically, the 8" is the best tablet you can get. You can hold this for ages and your wrist doesn't get tired.
Masteryates said:
Totally agree penguin. Battery isn't great, but ergonomically, the 8" is the best tablet you can get. You can hold this for ages and your wrist doesn't get tired.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have two Tab S2's, the 8 and the 9.7. For my purposes I now prefer the 9.7. The easiest to hold tho was my old Google Nexus 7, even though it was heavier it was narrower and my hand could grip it.
Bullwinkle J. Moose said:
I have two Tab S2's, the 8 and the 9.7. For my purposes I now prefer the 9.7. The easiest to hold tho was my old Google Nexus 7, even though it was heavier it was narrower and my hand could grip it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree that you could get your hand around a Nexus 7 but that was at the expense of screen. On websites, this was a pain. That's why I think the Tab S2 8" is the best of both worlds.
Masteryates said:
I agree that you could get your hand around a Nexus 7 but that was at the expense of screen. On websites, this was a pain. That's why I think the Tab S2 8" is the best of both worlds.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have both the gen 1 and gen 2 Nexus 7's and agree that while the size was nice for gripping, I much prefer the additional real estate and general quality of the 8" S2 display. I use a Moko case that has a handle to facilitate holding the S2 - I don't have big hands and I also kept hitting the screen with my fingers and palm when holding with one hand.
sparksd said:
I have both the gen 1 and gen 2 Nexus 7's and agree that while the size was nice for gripping, I much prefer the additional real estate and general quality of the 8" S2 display. I use a Moko case that has a handle to facilitate holding the S2 - I don't have big hands and I also kept hitting the screen with my fingers and palm when holding with one hand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes sparks. I find that because the S2 is so light, I don't need to hold as much of it to feel secure in my hand. I'd say I've medium sized hands. I think the 9.7" version would be a different proposition all together.
...............
sparksd said:
I have both the gen 1 and gen 2 Nexus 7's and agree that while the size was nice for gripping, I much prefer the additional real estate and general quality of the 8" S2 display. I use a Moko case that has a handle to facilitate holding the S2 - I don't have big hands and I also kept hitting the screen with my fingers and palm when holding with one hand.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree, and I like the real estate on the 9.7 even more. I've even been ogling the new 12" Ipad, but like I said I don't even know how to work them. I'll have to look into the Moko case. What I do now is use no case at all except for transport, but a glass shield to protect the screen. Seems to me that the added weight of a case defeats the purpose of these ultralight devices, but a case with a convenient gripping handle might be good...
PS It's a hassle posting on here: "the string you entered for image verification doesn't match"......huh? what string? It just says check box if you're not a robot and I did (and so would a clever robot!)
Bullwinkle J. Moose said:
I agree, and I like the real estate on the 9.7 even more. I've even been ogling the new 12" Ipad, but like I said I don't even know how to work them. I'll have to look into the Moko case. What I do now is use no case at all except for transport, but a glass shield to protect the screen. Seems to me that the added weight of a case defeats the purpose of these ultralight devices, but a case with a convenient gripping handle might be good...
PS It's a hassle posting on here: "the string you entered for image verification doesn't match"......huh? what string? It just says check box if you're not a robot and I did (and so would a clever robot!)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two years ago I bought an iPad Air 2 even though I've never been a fan of Apple products - I've had a lot of Android devices and my home PCs/laptops are Windows. But I must admit I am very impressed with the iPad- very polished and very stable. The iOS ecosystem has a lot I don't like - the sandbox approach to file management for one - but a lot of the apps available are extremely well done and sophisticated. Look at "Complete Anatomy" for one - I tried it out of curiosity and didn't buy the full edition but it is absolutely amazing. My doctor saw it and said he wished he had it in med school. My last large Android tablet - an Asus TF700T - was a PoS that I only used for screwing around with custom ROMs; it was pretty but it's performance was terrible. My brother has the 12" iPad and it is very nice and could make a good work machine. But I'm a retired S/W Systems Engineer (started in '71!) so work is foreign to me ...
Sparksd - Was it hard to learn to work the Ipad coming over from Windows and Android? I'm lazy and don't want to put a lot of effort into learning a whole new system...besides I' m already all tuckered out just from reading that 4-letter word you so rudely wrote...eek!...work! I don't see anyone else putting together such a nice tablet as Apple, though.
Bullwinkle J. Moose said:
Sparksd - Was it hard to learn to work the Ipad coming over from Windows and Android? I'm lazy and don't want to put a lot of effort into learning a whole new system...besides I' m already all tuckered out just from reading that 4-letter word you so rudely wrote...eek!...work! I don't see anyone else putting together such a nice tablet as Apple, though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was quite easy. In fact, what originally got me interested was when my 94 year-old Mom was given an older iPad by my nephew and she was able to use it on her own. I don't think I would have left her with an Android device or PC. The most difficult aspect to get used to and understand was the iOS file management philosophy but once I read up on it and got a couple of file management apps (FileBrowser, GoodReader, and Documents) I could deal with it.
And apologies for using the word for That Which Should Not be Spoken Of. Retirement is great!
I may give it a try, Spark. If I do I'll buy it at Costco. I'll have 90 days to decide if I want to keep it then. Plus Costco extends the warranty by a year.
To be honest, unless you have an existing investment in Android or Android apps, or have a specific need that Apple doesn't support, the iPads are better tablets. They are built better, work smoother, and have much better battery life over all. I am the lone hold out in my family with a Nexus 7 and a Galaxy Tab S2 (because the N7 is starting to get creaky)
The only issues I get from my family, who are uniformly Apple users, are that printing directly from apps doesn't work right (generally solveable by using the Brother print app), occasionally the bluetooth will glitch and cause the music player to start automatically, and Safari will crash under moderate load. Dolphin generally solves that latter issue, though I'm not sure how. Oh, and there are no obvious ways to block ads outside of the web browser. That's it - really. Otherwise, they love the things. We have upgraded through the iPad 2 to the iPad Air and now my wife is on an iPad Air 2.
Given Google's lack of interest in tablets and tablet software, the only thing keeping me on Android tablets is the fact that I own a lot of Android apps and games for them, and several reasonable firewall and privacy apps are available for it. Obviously, as an XDA member, I tend to prefer a higher level of control and modification of my devices, but if I were suggesting something for a non-technical user, I would point them at the new iPad 5. (unless they want to do art or technical work, then an iPad Pro 9.7")
jshamlet said:
To be honest, unless you have an existing investment in Android or Android apps, or have a specific need that Apple doesn't support, the iPads are better tablets. They are built better, work smoother, and have much better battery life over all. I am the lone hold out in my family with a Nexus 7 and a Galaxy Tab S2 (because the N7 is starting to get creaky)
The only issues I get from my family, who are uniformly Apple users, are that printing directly from apps doesn't work right (generally solveable by using the Brother print app), occasionally the bluetooth will glitch and cause the music player to start automatically, and Safari will crash under moderate load. Dolphin generally solves that latter issue, though I'm not sure how. Oh, and there are no obvious ways to block ads outside of the web browser. That's it - really. Otherwise, they love the things. We have upgraded through the iPad 2 to the iPad Air and now my wife is on an iPad Air 2.
Given Google's lack of interest in tablets and tablet software, the only thing keeping me on Android tablets is the fact that I own a lot of Android apps and games for them, and several reasonable firewall and privacy apps are available for it. Obviously, as an XDA member, I tend to prefer a higher level of control and modification of my devices, but if I were suggesting something for a non-technical user, I would point them at the new iPad 5. (unless they want to do art or technical work, then an iPad Pro 9.7")
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I completely agree with your assessment. I do like the level of control and modification that Android gives but that's the engineer in me who likes to really play around with the settings, ROMs, etc. As a "tablet user" though, give me my Air 2. It just plain works well and as I mentioned earlier, the level of polish and sophistication in a lot of available apps is outstanding. I'll always have Android devices but my next tablet upgrade would be another iPad. The S2 is a big upgrade from my Nexus 7 (and it blows my Asus Transformer Pad Infinity TF700T away) and is fun to use but my Air 2 is a better tablet. And this is from a guy who never thought he would buy an Apple device.
Yeah, I've been deeply disappointed by Google's lack of interest in tablets. I was hoping that after all the effort that went into Honeycomb they might actually reach parity with iOS, but nope. It is all still phone centric.
What is more baffling is that Samsung hasn't picked up the slack either, and despite being "Galaxy" devices, the Galaxy Tabs aren't really being treated that way. I still like my Tab S2, and it is at least as good as my wife's iPad Air 2 in terms of performance, but it isn't anywhere near it in terms of battery life. That last one is frustrating because it's a tablet. Make the thing a millimeter thicker and put a real battery in it. Our old iPad 2, despite being practically geriatric at this point, outlasts my Tab S2! (I keep it around as a Facetime client)
Same with my phone - I could tolerate an extra few millimeters if it meant the battery lasted longer. I really hope this thin fetish ends at some point...
jshamlet said:
Yeah, I've been deeply disappointed by Google's lack of interest in tablets. I was hoping that after all the effort that went into Honeycomb they might actually reach parity with iOS, but nope. It is all still phone centric.
What is more baffling is that Samsung hasn't picked up the slack either, and despite being "Galaxy" devices, the Galaxy Tabs aren't really being treated that way. I still like my Tab S2, and it is at least as good as my wife's iPad Air 2 in terms of performance, but it isn't anywhere near it in terms of battery life. That last one is frustrating because it's a tablet. Make the thing a millimeter thicker and put a real battery in it. Our old iPad 2, despite being practically geriatric at this point, outlasts my Tab S2! (I keep it around as a Facetime client)
Same with my phone - I could tolerate an extra few millimeters if it meant the battery lasted longer. I really hope this thin fetish ends at some point...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't look good these days for the overall tablet-only market, with a greater emphasis on hybrid and detachable devices - look at the Surface and where Apple is going with their Pro line. I think Google sees their niche in Chromebooks, which leaves Samsung as the big Android player. And if I'm an app developer, I'd be focused on either targeting phones (Android or Apple) or Apple tablets, not Android tablets, making Android tablets even less desirable as an end-user device. (Regarding battery - charged my Air 2 last night and this morning it was still at 100% with Bluetooth, WiFi, and location all enabled. Usage drain is also better than any other device I've owned.)
jshamlet said:
Yeah, I've been deeply disappointed by Google's lack of interest in tablets. I was hoping that after all the effort that went into Honeycomb they might actually reach parity with iOS, but nope. It is all still phone centric.
What is more baffling is that Samsung hasn't picked up the slack either, and despite being "Galaxy" devices, the Galaxy Tabs aren't really being treated that way. I still like my Tab S2, and it is at least as good as my wife's iPad Air 2 in terms of performance, but it isn't anywhere near it in terms of battery life. That last one is frustrating because it's a tablet. Make the thing a millimeter thicker and put a real battery in it. Our old iPad 2, despite being practically geriatric at this point, outlasts my Tab S2! (I keep it around as a Facetime client)
Same with my phone - I could tolerate an extra few millimeters if it meant the battery lasted longer. I really hope this thin fetish ends at some point...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree Jshamlet. The thing that made me buy this tablet was the weight, and I notice how heavy any other tablet is when I holding. Maybe Samsung could attempt something like last years Motorola phones where there is a back plate which includes a battery, giving the best of both worlds?
---------- Post added at 11:50 AM ---------- Previous post was at 11:48 AM ----------
jshamlet said:
Yeah, I've been deeply disappointed by Google's lack of interest in tablets. I was hoping that after all the effort that went into Honeycomb they might actually reach parity with iOS, but nope. It is all still phone centric.
What is more baffling is that Samsung hasn't picked up the slack either, and despite being "Galaxy" devices, the Galaxy Tabs aren't really being treated that way. I still like my Tab S2, and it is at least as good as my wife's iPad Air 2 in terms of performance, but it isn't anywhere near it in terms of battery life. That last one is frustrating because it's a tablet. Make the thing a millimeter thicker and put a real battery in it. Our old iPad 2, despite being practically geriatric at this point, outlasts my Tab S2! (I keep it around as a Facetime client)
Same with my phone - I could tolerate an extra few millimeters if it meant the battery lasted longer. I really hope this thin fetish ends at some point...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to disagree Jshamlet. The thing that made me buy this tablet was the weight, and I notice how heavy any other tablet is when I holding. Maybe Samsung could attempt something like last years Motorola phones where there is a back plate which includes a battery, giving the best of both worlds?
Talking of picking up the slack, I'd love One Plus to put there foot in the door. Samsung have had there chance......
Hi folks.
I was close to buy an iPad air 2 also, but:
- no GPS
- expensive
were the two reasons that I preferred the tab s2 instead. Also, I found it for a very good price.
I agree that for general usage the iPads are better tablets, I would never buy my mother an android, but for an engineer like me, with low budget, this was a better choice.
The alternative for me was to an even cheaper tablet, like Amazon fire, but the quality is even lower.
And I think the screen of the Tab S2 is amazing.
mauricempc74 said:
Hi folks.
I was close to buy an iPad air 2 also, but:
- no GPS
- expensive
were the two reasons that I preferred the tab s2 instead. Also, I found it for a very good price.
I agree that for general usage the iPads are better tablets, I would never buy my mother an android, but for an engineer like me, with low budget, this was a better choice.
The alternative for me was to an even cheaper tablet, like Amazon fire, but the quality is even lower.
And I think the screen of the Tab S2 is amazing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its funny that I bought my 65 year old mother a Nexus 4 back in 2012, thinking it would be too complex. She loved that phone and took an even bigger risk by replacing it with a Huawei P9 Lite. She's now an Android FanGranny and snaps at my sister whenever she suggests getting her an iOS device.