Database Users

Has everyone gotten the update by now?

nothing here yet...I live in New York.

Nothing here in Indiana...
--
Sent from my Vibrant via XDA app

No and they said every Vibrant owner would have it by the end of the month. Hopefully we will get it soon.

with Bionix 1.6 kicking so much ass and making the gps perfect I don't see a reason for caring about the OTA

SeanFloyd said:
with Bionix 1.6 kicking so much ass and making the gps perfect I don't see a reason for caring about the OTA
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Click to collapse
lol too true.
I personally don't give a **** about any OTAs until froyo.
But yeah, nothing here in Seattle.

Vegastouch said:
No and they said every Vibrant owner would have it by the end of the month. Hopefully we will get it soon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oh! I thought I had seen it was in the next 24-48 hours.

m4r10 said:
nothing here yet...I live in New York.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OTA's are staged out in batches, not all at once. T-Mobile has sold about a million of these phones at this point (given that Samsung claims 3 million SGS Phones sold in the U.S. this is entirely likely). They are most definitely NOT going to update a million phones at the same time.
The update for YOU could come now, tomorrow, next week, or before the end of the month. Sitting here in a thread hitting refresh hoping for vital info about the OTA is a complete waste of time.
You have four options...
1). Wait for the OTA, which will arrive whenever it arrives
2). Frankin Twiz, built on JI6
3). Bionix 1.6, built on JI6
4). leaked unmodified JI6 firmware
Options 2,3,4 will get you JI6 today, with the associated risks of taking the management of the update into your hands. Option 1 is the official option which requires nothing but patience. Decide.

Wonder if I could call T-mobile and naively ask about a GPS problem and see if they will go ahead and push JI6 to me?

Nope nothing in WA I sure hope I won't have to wait til the end of the month....
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

chui101 said:
Wonder if I could call T-mobile and naively ask about a GPS problem and see if they will go ahead and push JI6 to me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Already tried and they said no.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

I was waiting today but then I flashed Bionix and that will hold me off until Froyo.
Sent from my Samsung Vibrant using the xda-developers app.

chui101 said:
Wonder if I could call T-mobile and naively ask about a GPS problem and see if they will go ahead and push JI6 to me?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha! You think customer care or tech care have that much power? The people in tmo who do, ssg data, don't take any calls and if they want to, never actually have to talk to the customer at all. They work solely on trouble tickets and work orders. The highest you may get by calling tech is atsg, the people who submit trouble tickets to them.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

Abandoning all hope!!! Tununu nunu TING bionix 1.6 installed
it helps me a lot by suppressing my insanity

samsungtweets
RT @GalaxySsupport JI6 OTA now released for Vibrant! Watch for msg on phone letting y know the update is ready! Thanks for your patience! (@, ☆, #)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=802240
This is from my thread.

Got mine today but now my phone maybe bricked. Left it alone after it downloaded and installed the update but it won't go pass the loading stage. Now I'm trying to unbrick it.

MaxZach said:
Got mine today but now my phone maybe bricked. Left it alone after it downloaded and installed the update but it won't go pass the loading stage. Now I'm trying to unbrick it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What exactly happened? And what was your setup before trying to install the update?

MaxZach said:
Got mine today but now my phone maybe bricked. Left it alone after it downloaded and installed the update but it won't go pass the loading stage. Now I'm trying to unbrick it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you have lagfix installed? That could be the problem.
On another note, why are so many people waiting patiently for the OTA? Just flash one of the leaks. Bionix 1.6 is well worth it! And you can always ODIN back to stock!
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App

It looks like it bricked my GF's phone also, now im sitting here trying to wipe it. Hers is all stock except it is rooted, no ROMs or lag fixes etc.

I got off the phone with tech support at T Mobile a few hours ago and here is what they related to me. Your inability to get checkin succeeded may or may not be usual or normal, they have no clue and the OTA is scheduled to run from 10-7 thru 10-31. has anyone else or does anyone else have the same inability to get feedback from the checkin code? This is the only phone I have had that the checkin failed to register except for a MT3g which they promptly replaced.

got the update today... no problems so far...

Just got the 2.2 (froyo) OTA (Over the Air) update!!

Well looks like its finally rolling out. I just got the update down here in arkansas, curious to see how many others have already received it.

any proof? sorry to be that guy but...

shabbypenguin said:
any proof? sorry to be that guy but...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
was going to ask the same thing...any proof

Got prompted that there is a system update just now, but won't download it until there is a confirmed root. Also I don't know if its froyo, im still on the original released rom...could be di18 that its just now bugging me about, as it is the first time ive seen an update message. Im in knoxville, tn.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

eh proof then nothing is true

Sorry,.ment I'm still on di07.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Trolls will troll....

You can't post crap like this without proof. Give us a break, you say something, but we are supposed to believe you just because you say it? Sounds more like trolling since you can't take a picture and post it.

odd how the OP signed off

I doubt it..us getting an update before AT&T, T-Mobile and Verizon is hard to believe...I would be willing to believe a possibility of an OTA..but for the OTA to have Froyo is an eyebrow raiser >.>
I mean last OTA was a month ago..and if Froyo is on Nov 29th an OTA in between is a possibility.

You can use shootme, screenshot, a digital cam or phone, a webcam, a polaroid and a scanner...
If you can't avail yourselves of any of those options, I can't bring myself to take you seriously.

Mines just di18...i thought I took the otacerts file out....guess not?
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

I'm pretty sure if this were true there would be at least 3 pages with more than 2 confirmations. Could be wrong though, I've been hopeful for almost 2 months. Should be here soon. A lil proof would be nice.

Yeah, I'm doubtful of the validity myself.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

I was at the sprint store today picking up a Samsung intercept and was told not until late november early december. I honestly am not going to expect it until February next year.

It seems that the thread is only for trolling purposes. If you guys don't mind, I am closing this one down.

Sprint Reps say DON'T update to 2.2! lol

So I went to the sprint store today cuz my battery took a ****. The repair guy was telling everyone not to run the OTA update to 2.2, apparently it's bricking phones and breaking camera. He said Sprint will have their own update in a couple weeks. I lol'd as I walked out with my deodexed rooted EB13...

well that would probably explain why my wife hasnt received the update.. oh well.. I already updated with the zip files as well.

Go figure and they keep rolling it out.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

xTmDarren said:
well that would probably explain why my wife hasnt received the update.. oh well.. I already updated with the zip files as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My wife just got hers a couple of hours ago.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Damn it booiii...more dissapointment...and after such a long and druamatic wait for the release...smh, will the corrected version be another rolled out OTA or will they release it on the samsung website?

Loving the official 2.2. 12hrs unplugged so far and 60% battery left. Usually my exchange email kills it during the day since the tower is overloaded downtown with awesome 20-60 kilobit speeds. So my 3g radio gets a work out constantly trying to communicate.

Good job sprint smh
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

I updated my buddies phone to official 2.2 last night and his phone turned into a brick. Nothing would power it on. No boot, no recovery, no download mode, no nothin... I was using odin and the tar file though and not the update.zip
I did the same procedure twice to my epic and it worked great.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Calling B.S. unless otherwise proven.

I'm skeptical that they are still rolling it out in force... My mom and sister have yet to get it. I'm just sitting on dk28 for a bot myself so I'm not sure how eb13 is actually performing... The forum posts don't make me particularly optimistic

i can believe it, it was a ***** for me to update my phone using odin and the eb13 tar, it just would not work, my phones screen kept turning a different color like purple or green then odin would just freeze. Tried another computer and was able to do it using the samsung .exe file and it wiped everything and i thought i was good, running real quick and snappy, but i opened the camera and went to record a video with it and as soon as i hit the button to switch to video i got an error saying the camera has crashed and it kicked me out :/ I thought, according to sprint, that we waited this long so they could iron out the bugs and make sure there was a release that was worth of releasing!

This official release is flawless for me. I did get the orange screen thou with the samsung tool, I just reran it and its 100 % flawless. Recorded vids with no issue.

could this be the EVO curse we were dreading?
Btw. Everyone owes a oppology to noobl. Remember he warned us about the leak dk28 bricking some phones? And some in here claimed the epic is unbrickable? Uhhuuu... Everyone... Form a single line and appologize.

I don't know how to prove that the phone was bricked, but it definitely was. It got stuck at param.lfs (or whatever that file extension is) in odin, so I retried it a few times, next thing I knew it would not turn on. He should be swapping it at the sprint store tommorow I think.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

abduljaffar said:
could this be the EVO curse we were dreading?
Btw. Everyone owes a opt to noobl. Remember he weaned us about the leak dk28 bricking some phones? And done in here claimed the epic is unbrickable? Uhhuuu... Everyone... Form a single line and appologize.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was on DK28 and since I followed instructions correctly, my phone is still in working condition. HA!

That's misinformation from the store. Here's the deal with the update... Yes, it's still being pushed and all devices should have it by Friday. There have been some reports of issues with the camera and browser force closing but those are resolvable in most cases with a hard reset (sucks I know). I haven't seen any reports of a phone that was truly bricked, although custom roms will be more likely to have issues with the OTA update. I've personally updated 8 of these both OTA and with the Samsung installer and haven't had an issue with any of them after the update.
Currently looking for a custom rom though because I don't like some of the changes that were made. It does feel like the screen is a bit laggy after the update and I hate the new messaging app but overall no performance issues

Overstew said:
I was on DK28 and since I followed instructions correctly, my phone is still in working condition. HA!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lol. Me too. I used the 200mb samsung tool. No old odin with modified eb13 deodexed junk. Follow instructions nerds!

I'm not buying it. I know there are isues out there (myself included) but I would think if it was a serious problem we would have people on the forums saying it happened to them by now.

I updated my phone via the Samsung .exe file which I knew would wipe my phone which wasn't a problem for me since I use gmail to keep records of my contacts, call logs / sms (using sms backp+) and etc. So no worries there. I did get a little miffed about losing the apps but that is expected for a phone wipe.
There are few quirks and some changes in the GUI I didn't like. Big issue is the stupid SMS client they had to change so will be looking for a altnative version for it. No big deal but why change something when it works in DI18??
Screen rotation lag is fixable via screen calibration (posted elsewhere in this forums).
Least now the Devs have the source code they should be coming out with some nice ROMs soon. Rumored for Sprint to come out with an update in a couple of weeks? Not worried about it, by then most of us will be on custom ROMs anyway.
Darkk

abduljaffar said:
could this be the EVO curse we were dreading?
Btw. Everyone owes a oppology to noobl. Remember he warned us about the leak dk28 bricking some phones? And some in here claimed the epic is unbrickable? Uhhuuu... Everyone... Form a single line and appologize.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i still think its effing impossible.
rbjem said:
I don't know how to prove that the phone was bricked, but it definitely was. It got stuck at param.lfs (or whatever that file extension is) in odin, so I retried it a few times, next thing I knew it would not turn on. He should be swapping it at the sprint store tommorow I think.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
flashing kills the balls out of the battery. i have had a fully charged battery die in half an hour running odin multiple times trying things out. id bet almost anything that if you had an external charger to throw your battery in for a bit the phone would boot in to download mode with no problems.

EB13 Update pulled by Sprint due to issues.

http://community.sprint.com/baw/thread/62961?tstart=0

I like how it has "baw" right in the URL.

Haven't they updated almost everyone's phone ota? What are they gonna do to the people.they updated?
Sent from my Evo Killer!!!

musclehead84 said:
Haven't they updated almost everyone's phone ota? What are they gonna do to the people.they updated?
Sent from my Evo Killer!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My wifes epic didn't get the OTA yet.
Not sure, they are working on another release though.

Can't wait for new phones. I'm jumping off the Samsung train at the nearest stop.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk

At least we got the source code. I wonder if it will still be eb13 or something else. Damn I hate this. It will take another 6months to.get a fully working version.
Sent from my Evo Killer!!!

musclehead84 said:
At least we got the source code. I wonder if it will still be eb13 or something else. Damn I hate this. It will take another 6months to.get a fully working version.
Sent from my Evo Killer!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We've already seen evidence that Sammy was working on builds later than EB13.

I didn't get the ota either. This is unreal, all that wait fro froyo to get a ota that's stopped due to issues??? Well that was the nail in the coffin for me. 0 chance of me owning another Samsung phone now.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

styckx said:
Can't wait for new phones. I'm jumping off the Samsung train at the nearest stop.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sad buit its the truth, I came from the evo to this phone, I love it especiallly with custom roms but its obvious that htc is brand of choice for sprint

At least this means that they are working on an update. The only problem I have is with taking videos in low light. But I hardly ever do that so it isn't a deal breaker for me. Everything else is 100 times better than DI18 for what I use.

It says that a hard reset fixes the issues. People that have been running DK28 for a few months are already used to this sort of behavior. You cannot rely on these OTA upgrades. It's like upgrading Windows versions. Wipe and and clean install is always the best policy.

crawrj said:
At least this means that they are working on an update. The only problem I have is with taking videos in low light. But I hardly ever do that so it isn't a deal breaker for me. Everything else is 100 times better than DI18 for what I use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree except for one point , I dont like the new messaging lol

boominz28 said:
I agree except for one point , I dont like the new messaging lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you install gosms from the market, there is an option to make it look similar to the Eclair messenger without the bubbles

crawrj said:
At least this means that they are working on an update.
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure the pull means that. It sounds like the problem is with the updating mechanism, not with EB13 itself. It could easily be just the updating scripts themselves that they are working on.
I do think they are always working on new builds, but I have no idea how seriously they are considering actually making one of those publicly-available nor what sort of time course they might have in mind.

I have heard the issues that Sprint was having (relative is an employee). It's nothing that I would have pulled the OTA over TBH. Stuff like calendar syncing not working (clear data clears that right up). From what I heard it sounds like it's all stuff that is related to user data and cache issues. There was nothing on the list that we didn't already know about.

I knew the data issue on the EB13 modem getting 18kbps & 30kbps was not related to anything else but the modem. Odin back to DK28, & while not real fast, nothing compared to EB13. Epic fail!
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

wow, this section is about to be blown apart.

I believe that the OTA was pushed out sensing the increasing noise about the update. It was certainly not ready, and they knew it, I think. They must also have known they might need to pull it back.
One wonders just what happened last year between Samsung and Sprint that caused this mess. It's surprising that even after so many months, they failed to provide a decent update! Can one of the mods, who was in talks with SamsungJohn, throw some much needed light on all this, if SamsungJohn provided some important info., and also if the time frame around the yet-another-update is known.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

I may or not not work for sprint and as far as I can tell, these issues only effect the OTA update, not the over the wire update, FWIW...

I think so sprint/samsung should just give us 2.3/.4 and call it a day, I'm upset about the wait but at least toss us some sort of bone for our troubles.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

More info: EB13 to EC05

While searching through some sprint forums, I came across the admin stating this about those who have EB13:
The official Sprint OTA update is for devices on EB13 and will update your device to EC05. You should receive it by midnight CST.
I know people might think this is crap, but the one thing the admin gave away is the TIME ZONE. Now we know the time zone to base it on to see if it will come true.
Just a thought to get people a little more hopeful.
Here's the source: http://community.sprint.com/baw/message/273219

Awesome... i dont see why a member of your status would lie

iSaint said:
Awesome... i dont see why a member of your status would lie
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. I swear to you I'm not lying.
I mean, my statement is just a theory, of course, based on a Sprint Admin (the one who actually posted the info all about the new update on the Sprint forums), so I'm taking his word for it.
Also, it being CST makes sense since the Sprint Headquarters is in the Midwest. (I think)
That being said, I think that confirms that the update is being run by Sprint, not the Google servers, like some had suggested.

Yep makes alot of sense and explains the texts everyones been getting.
Thanks for posting bro.

iSaint said:
Yep makes alot of sense and explains the texts everyones been getting.
Thanks for posting bro.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. Since I live in the Midwest, it's easier to keep track of the time
For those who don't live in the Midwest, it is currently 9:00.
Only 3 more hours until we all get EC05, or Sprint had lied
Edit: Holy crap, I think I might be getting it right now O_O
It's checking for the software update, and it's taking way longer than usual. I know it's checking correctly because whenever you check for any update, the little "3G" icon in the notification bar disappears. I'll let it keep loading for a while. *FINGERS CROSSED*
Edit2: False Alarm... (no shocker really)

It's update android, not firmware. It's not coming tonight, it's not available.

NoSoMo said:
It's update android, not firmware. It's not coming tonight, it's not available.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Alright, well:
1. You have to click "Update Firmware" and then the System Updates section will show it downloading.
2. It IS available; people on DI18 already have it. Sprint claims EB13 will get it too. Maybe not today, but one can only hope right?
Look, the best way to look at a situation like this is to be optimistic, and that is what I am attempting to do. Sure I might be wrong or get my hopes up, but sometimes the feeling of having the optimism is enough.
So please, don't just make statements like that. I know you weren't intending to bash me or anything, but having that negativity does not help.
Thanks

So odin back to di18 and check for the update to see what happens.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

acer1096xxx said:
Alright, well:
1. You have to click "Update Firmware" and then the System Updates section will show it downloading.
2. It IS available; people on DI18 already have it. Sprint claims EB13 will get it too. Maybe not today, but one can only hope right?
Look, the best way to look at a situation like this is to be optimistic, and that is what I am attempting to do. Sure I might be wrong or get my hopes up, but sometimes the feeling of having the optimism is enough.
So please, don't just make statements like that. I know you weren't intending to bash me or anything, but having that negativity does not help.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Updating to 05 via 13 IS NOT AVAILABLE AND WILL NOT BE THIS WEEK.
Look at the 13 update, it came out for 18 alone, and then days later was pulled. NOTHING else dropped. Samsung does not give a $hit about current customers, and it's not going to change tonight, or tomorrow for that matter.

NoSoMo said:
Updating to 05 via 13 IS NOT AVAILABLE AND WILL NOT BE THIS WEEK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What are you basing this on?

Milkman00 said:
What are you basing this on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The facts -10char-

Milkman00 said:
What are you basing this on?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. I just checked three forums posted by Sprint admins that confirmed ALL SOFTWARE VERSIONS WILL BE UPGRADED TO EC05 BY END OF TODAY.
Now I agree with you that we may not get it TODAY, but we will get it EVENTUALLY. And @dbpaddler, I would but I have a Mac, and do not feel like wiping my data. Also, I do not want to do the Root method because if I root my phone I want to put ext4/cwm3 on it, not cwm2.5. (I realize I can update, but not worth the hassle in my opinion)
This was just posted today:
UPDATE 3/24/11
: Updates from older versions are now available via OTA. If you are on any of the previous releases (not including the leaked DK28 release), you will receive a notification to update...still following
up on whether these will be step releases (DG27 to DI07 to DI18, etc.) or if they will be from the old release directly to the current (for example, DG27 to EC05).
Source: http://community.sprint.com/baw/message/273315#273315

dbpaddler said:
So odin back to di18 and check for the update to see what happens.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I did that and the first thing it wanted to do, is the voice mail update

NoSoMo said:
The facts -10char-
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can you site a source of your "facts" that specifically say there will be no update from EB13 to EC05, or should we just call this a vent (maybe even a troll) and end it here?

You people act like this would be the first time sprint said something that didn't come true. Hell, the Epic was coming with FROYO since November. It's only 4 months later, and they still aren't shipping froyo on the phones, and it came out in what, last may?
Facts? Yes, how about the FACT that it WAS stated that 18 and 13 were BOTH getting 05, then it changed it changed to 18 getting it, and 13 by 1am est, NOW it's changed to 3 previous getting the update? However, the FACT still stands, only 18 is getting 05. Everything I've posted is FACT, the only one inferred was that it's not coming tonight.

Milkman00 said:
Can you site a source of your "facts" that specifically say there will be no update from EB13 to EC05, or should we just call this a vent (maybe even a troll) and end it here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Agreed. I don't want this to be a back-and-forth argument.
However, if you can cite a source proving your statements, I would accept them and be on my way.
Edit: @NoSoMo, look, I understand why you're feeling like that. However, it is Samsung who is developing the software, not Sprint. Samsung develops, Sprint delivers. Besides, people already have EC05, which means Sprint ISN'T LYING.
We will get it in due time, and if we don't, then I would just odin to get it.
Please don't get angered by this; I don't want an argument. I agree with you; most likely we will not get it today. But I do believe we will within this week (Sunday, if we're that unlucky)

NoSoMo said:
However, the FACT still stands, only 18 is getting 05. Everything I've posted is FACT, the only one inferred was that it's not coming tonight.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NoSoMo said:
Updating to 05 via 13 IS NOT AVAILABLE AND WILL NOT BE THIS WEEK.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You state that it is not available (assumed currently), which is a fact as of this minute. You then make a very bold FACTUAL claim that it will not be available this week. I am asking you to site the source of this FACT. There are people that read this forum for FACTUAL information, and when you make a statement like that, it is going to freak people out, POSSIBLY FOR NO REASON.
If you would have said "and I bet it won't be available at all this week", or "watch it not be available at all this week", that is an opinion, and that is cool. You made a FACTUAL statement off of what DOCUMENTED FACT???
In the end you could very well be right, but not because of fact, but because you took a chance and got lucky, I am just asking you to take a little responsibility in what you post on forums, especially about such a hot topic.

Milkman00 said:
You state that it is not available (assumed currently), which is a fact as of this minute. You then make a very bold FACTUAL claim that it will not be available this week. I am asking you to site the source of this FACT. There are people that read this forum for FACTUAL information, and when you make a statement like that, it is going to freak people out, POSSIBLY FOR NO REASON.
If you would have said "and I bet it won't be available at all this week", or "watch it not be available at all this week", that is an opinion, and that is cool. You made a FACTUAL statement off of what DOCUMENTED FACT???
In the end you could very well be right, but not because of fact, but because you took a chance and got lucky, I am just asking you to take a little responsibility in what you post on forums, especially about such a hot topic.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You bring out a good point Milkman, although a little too argumental (I'm trying to keep some tranquility here )
@NoSoMo, he's right. You are basing everything on opinion and past events that make you believe Sprint will not deliver their promise. An inference is fine, but please reword it so you don't say "facts".
Guys, look. I didn't want all of this to turn into an argument. Everyone is entitled to their opinion. Please, I do not want a flame war. Can we all agree to drop this?

I just got tired of waiting so I went to Androidcentral and and used their rom and flashed from EB13 to EC05. It worked great and I didn't lose any data. http://forum.androidcentral.com/epi...ooted-cwm-v2-5-1-0-rfs-odexed.html#post761525

itsmebryan said:
I just got tired of waiting so I went to Androidcentral and and used their rom and flashed from EB13 to EC05. It worked great and I didn't lose any data. http://forum.androidcentral.com/epi...ooted-cwm-v2-5-1-0-rfs-odexed.html#post761525
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd do that if I could, but I have a mac and no availability to a PC as of now. Also, I would prefer to root my phone to ext4/cwm3 (I realize you can just update over it, but eh, I'm more comfortable with my own preferences)