Gingerbread nand - HD2 Android Q&A, Help & Troubleshooting and Genera

I instaled the 2.2 android using DFT NAND......so what do i need to do to instal gingerbread nand with 2.3 android and by the way where can i download it(a link would be helpfull)........dont be mad at me im just a totaly noob!!!

Szicophrenic said:
I instaled the 2.2 android using DFT NAND......so what do i need to do to instal gingerbread nand with 2.3 android and by the way where can i download it(a link would be helpfull)........dont be mad at me im just a totaly noob!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
here's a couple gingerbread builds you can use:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=782301
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=905060
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=877777
the last one has links youtube vidoes on how to install, it'll work for all of them
good luck

I read as huge word of warning in a sticky or otherwise that I should always ensure the ROM to be flashed is compatible with the device
May I flash this NAND
[22 JAN] -=MDJ's CyanogenMod 7 v. 2.6 [A2SD+][GRH78C][RMNET][Kernel: MDJ S10.4 OC]
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=877777
to my Leo [TMOUS] [1024]?
It is not labelled that i can!!!!

whats the most safe bet for and gingerbread NAND? Because me phone already crashed once

If you own a Leo, and more specifically a TMOUS (1024 MB) Leo, then you can flash any ROM in the Leo forum to your device without any worries...

kiki_tt said:
I read as huge word of warning in a sticky or otherwise that I should always ensure the ROM to be flashed is compatible with the device
May I flash this NAND
[22 JAN] -=MDJ's CyanogenMod 7 v. 2.6 [A2SD+][GRH78C][RMNET][Kernel: MDJ S10.4 OC]
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=877777
to my Leo [TMOUS] [1024]?
It is not labelled that i can!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Go for it !!!
Any rom goes

Digital Outcast said:
If you own a Leo, and more specifically a TMOUS (1024 MB) Leo, then you can flash any ROM in the Leo forum to your device without any worries...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think i dont, ive bought mine in holland with Vodafone on it. Is that a BIG difference? Coz i dont wanna mess up my HD2 again.

kiki_tt said:
May I flash this NAND
[22 JAN] -=MDJ's CyanogenMod 7 v. 2.6 [A2SD+][GRH78C][RMNET][Kernel: MDJ S10.4 OC]
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=877777
to my Leo [TMOUS] [1024]?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I flashed this ROM too (to my HD2 Leo). It's the very good ROM!
However, today I could not go to this thread anymore (?!? it was normal yesterday).

Thomas Kaiser said:
I think i dont, ive bought mine in holland with Vodafone on it. Is that a BIG difference? Coz i dont wanna mess up my HD2 again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I bought my first HD in holland
My HD2 come from France, If I'm not wrong only US TMobile or 1024. Your's is a 512 "only"... sad us!
It's not a big issue anyway. Just avoid the builds labelled [TMOUS 1024]. 1024/512 is the size of the NAND. A build made specificly for a 1024 will not have enough space in your phone.
I don't think it will destroy the phone but it not worth testing.
If you want a non-sense one you can try this one: HyperDroidGBXv4.0
It's small and good for me.
Honnestly, juts go flashing and flashing. You can always recover the phone even if the flash goes wrong (just restart the flash).

casemandan said:
here's a couple gingerbread builds you can use:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=782301
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=905060
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=877777
the last one has links youtube vidoes on how to install, it'll work for all of them
good luck
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried the NexusHD2-Gingerbread_V2.1_NAND but when i extract it i only see a lot of errors so i cannot start the DAF....why this or am i doing something wrong?

Szicophrenic said:
I tried the NexusHD2-Gingerbread_V2.1_NAND but when i extract it i only see a lot of errors so i cannot start the DAF....why this or am i doing something wrong?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The file may not have downloaded fully. Try downloading it again.

hi ...i have T-Mobile HTC HD2 phone.How i check it is 1024 or 512 and radio version?is there any option to check it

mayurolla said:
The file may not have downloaded fully. Try downloading it again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hm, more likely is that he uses winrar to unzip the file..try again with 7zip.

is the cm7 the most stable or what?

I also want to know that...

I have the same question. I hesitate to install it ...

try to install every rom time and time again

Related

no hspl for run android?

is HSPL needed to run android in hd2?
Do you think this is the right thread for 'question'?
Normally HSPL is needed because you need to flash the radio rom suitable to run android.
as long u using 3rd party rom u need it..
I don't believe it is "needed" to simply run Android. Now if you want it as your daily OS, I would strongly suggest it. You will be able to flash the recommended Radio / ROM combination so that you get the most functional build possible.
Without the right radio or ROM, you will have some unwelcome bugs.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
dirn1111 said:
Do you think this is the right thread for 'question'?
Normally HSPL is needed because you need to flash the radio rom suitable to run android.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oops i'm sorry if i made mistake
do u have a recommendation which android suitable for original official hd2 rom?
harky said:
as long u using 3rd party rom u need it..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
since the day i bought hd2 until now it never been hspl yet in other word it still original official hd2 rom, here the descriptions:
os: 5.2.21869
manila: 2.5.19211619.0
rom: 1.66.707.1
radio: 2.07.51.22_2
protocol: 15.32.50.07u
I have stock T-Mobile US HD2 and I have not put HSPL or anything... it's even GSM locked to the carrier...
I managed to get FroyoStone series to work just fine; mccm build FRG33 and FRG 83 build as well... besides that I did try some builds like shubcraft or whatever the name is and it did not want to work due to screen freezes - so I just went back to mccm 1.5
sorry double post
jelliottz said:
I don't believe it is "needed" to simply run Android. Now if you want it as your daily OS, I would strongly suggest it. You will be able to flash the recommended Radio / ROM combination so that you get the most functional build possible.
Without the right radio or ROM, you will have some unwelcome bugs.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont wanna use it as my daily i just wanna catch the experience using it, the games, the apps and environments
would you be kind to let me know which version of android and rom r u using?
eenbox said:
I have stock T-Mobile US HD2 and I have not put HSPL or anything... it's even GSM locked to the carrier...
I managed to get FroyoStone series to work just fine; mccm build FRG33 and FRG 83 build as well... besides that I did try some builds like shubcraft or whatever the name is and it did not want to work due to screen freezes - so I just went back to mccm 1.5
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
really??wow thats sounds interesting to me
would u be kind to give the link to download the instruction and apps?
maverick_endit81 said:
i dont wanna use it as my daily i just wanna catch the experience using it, the games, the apps and environments
would you be kind to let me know which version of android and rom r u using?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use Chuck Droid ROM as my WinMo base. Radio 2.10.50.26. I switch between 2 Android chefs: MdeeJay and Bangsters. I use them both for daily use.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
anyway our advice is already stated there..
u want to install or not is depend on u..
any brick on ur phone will be responsible by urself..
You can run Android on a stock phone, but just be ready for any of the various annoyances with doing so, most common is audio issues like robot voice during calls. I tried it on stock Tmous HD2 for a while before finally loading up custom roms.
You might get lucky and not have the issues.
jelliottz said:
I use Chuck Droid ROM as my WinMo base. Radio 2.10.50.26. I switch between 2 Android chefs: MdeeJay and Bangsters. I use them both for daily use.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thank for the info i will give it a try
harky said:
anyway our advice is already stated there..
u want to install or not is depend on u..
any brick on ur phone will be responsible by urself..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
sure it is..barely our own responsibility
daemonfly said:
You can run Android on a stock phone, but just be ready for any of the various annoyances with doing so, most common is audio issues like robot voice during calls. I tried it on stock Tmous HD2 for a while before finally loading up custom roms.
You might get lucky and not have the issues.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lucky for the t-mob users..and me the universal hd2 user

7 Proofs why we should use recommended WINMO Rom in testing/choosing Android build

1. [BUILD][04.11.2010] [Core Droid V0.6][SUPERSONIC (EVO 4G)][Kernel Hastarin #R8]
Instructions:
- Make Sure you have a Windows Build and Radio Compatible with Android you can use any of my ROMS since they are the ones i use too test Android so they are 100% compatible.
- If you already have an Android folder on your SD Card DELETE IT OR RENAME IT, because this version MAY BE INCOMPATIBILE with other builds.
- Extract the Android folder (with all files in in) to root of your SD Card. THIS IS IMPORTANT.
- After copyng everything to your SD Card ensure you have at least 1200 Mb free space for data store.
- On first run when there is “Creating a new data.img” just give it time to complete, and on first boot be patient and give it time to load everything.
Builder - Sergio76
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
2. [BUILD][02.11.10] HD2ONE 0.2.4 & 0.3 [CM6.1][Multi-kernel][RMNET+PPP][FM][Solid]
Test Environment
WinMo: ChuckyDroidROM 23139
Radio: Leo_RADIO_2.15.50.14
Builder - Kouno.Takaaki
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
3. [UPD][BUILD](29.10.2010)New Customize (iphone,sense,galaxys) in one Build mccm SE 3.0
If having problem try to flash other ROM and Radio
Try This: OzDROID ROM(Bare WM ROM With Bootloader)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=774417
or
Core Cell EVO's custom rom
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=617142
I'm using : Elegancia Rom - Miri colored by Steve0007 v9.5
My Radio Leo 2.15.50.14
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=611787
Builder - mccmjoon76
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
4. [UPD][BUILD][11-5-2010][JDMS 1.5][Hastarin R8][PPP+RMNET][Themed+Stock]
If that does not help, I suggest you to change your rom and radio with those
- OzDROID ROM(Bare WM ROM With Bootloader)
- Leo Radio_2_10_50_26. Check My siggy..
Builder - atoore
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
5. [BUILD][TMOUS ONLY][05.11.10] Desire Sense - BlueTopia v0.6.1 [kernel:hastarin R8]
I use Radio 2.15.50.14 and VBNROM RELOADED 2 Alternate WM Rom.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=776971
Builder - cmylxgo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
6. (BUILD)(Nov.3.2010) BiffMod-HD2 v1.1 - Vanilla Froyo (Kernel-hastarn 7.7)
*****I'm using ChuckyDroid lite with the latest 2.15 radio and have no issues. If you don't have this setup and are having issues....that might explain it Also be sure you are using clrcad.exe before EACH boot and have the android folder on the root of your sdcard. If you have "bugs" try running fix_permissions and clearing market cache from settings.*****
Builder - infinitybiff
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
AND THE BEST OF ALL
FROM darkstone HIMSELF
7. FroyoStone Sense - Version 3.2 (17-October-2010)
If you are having issue with audio, whether if it is high pitched or you are hear robot noises during calls, then I recommend you switch over to a new Windows Mobile rom.
I use this rom: kwbr HD2
My radio is 2.12.50.02_2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its up to anyones interpretation,
but the above says it all
****USE RECOMMENDED WINMO ROM AND RADIO****
the main purpose for the threads' creation is brought about by my reading and posting
through the threads and encountering a lot of people having problem Installing
Android and that a proven and tested method of using the builders recommended
winmo ROM and Radio is mainly being ignored due to the fact that a lot of people
are able to run Android on stock ROMs even without HSPL. although I am not
contradicting this, but as almost all of those people posting problems which are
perplexing dont receive a definitive answer, the only other option really is
to use what's been recommended.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jigners said:
1. [BUILD]
AND THE BEST OF ALL
FROM darkstone HIMSELF
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, I can think of 10+ builds better than darkstones
Seriously i have no clue wat you are trying to tell us here.
Are you promoting using the ussage of roms that these builders use ?
If so why open up a topic for it its already in every post of the builders build.
shuntje said:
Seriously i have no clue wat you are trying to tell us here.
Are you promoting using the ussage of roms that these builders use ?
If so why open up a topic for it its already in every post of the builders build.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the main purpose for the threads' creation is brought about by my reading and posting
through the threads and encountering a lot of people having problem Installing
Android and that a proven and tested method of using the builders recommended
winmo ROM and Radio is mainly being ignored due to the fact that a lot of people
are able to run Android on stock ROMs even without HSPL. although I am not contradicting this, but as almost all of those people posting problems which are
perplexing dont receive a definitive answer, the only other option really is
to use what's been recommended.
Most people are just to lazy to do any searching to find the answers. They will still have issues will the simple layout you have provided. I've noticed they don't even know that the down loads appear in the first couple of post on every thread. I mean how simple is that.
cwsmall said:
Most people are just to lazy to do any searching to find the answers. They will still have issues will the simple layout you have provided. I've noticed they don't even know that the down loads appear in the first couple of post on every thread. I mean how simple is that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah that is too true.
Why are u promoting youre opinions to us? I have tried almost all of those, and found out that the best one for me is mdeejays froyo revolution 1.5!
This is your top 7. Good for you, but everyone should try mdeejay builds, and you dont even mention him.
Rom opinions are subjective!
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
dashrink said:
Why are u promoting youre opinions to us? I have tried almost all of those, and found out that the best one for me is mdeejays froyo revolution 1.5!
This is your top 7. Good for you, but everyone should try mdeejay builds, and you dont even mention him.
Rom opinions are subjective!
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You totally got the wrong point. My aim in this thread is not to promote the builds
Quoted herein, but I quoted them as a means of getting my message across, so
Anyone testing Android builds should be using recommended winmo Roms and radio.
The builders of these all recommends a particular custom winmo Rom, so to miniimize
Incidence of problems along the way. BTW am a big fan of mdeejay, now am
Using Clean 2.3 sense.
"subjective" you're telling me ay!
I get your point. And it is a good one. The environment of the cooks is the best way to duplicate their smooth running builds.
Ha, looks like this thread went over a LOT of heads. Of course I do see that many don't read the first post on the Builds once they find the download link.
J
JonSolo said:
I get your point. And it is a good one. The environment of the cooks is the best way to duplicate their smooth running builds.
Ha, looks like this thread went over a LOT of heads. Of course I do see that many don't read the first post on the Builds once they find the download link.
J
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite right!
You got my point right on.
jigners said:
You totally got the wrong point. My aim in this thread is not to promote the builds
Quoted herein, but I quoted them as a means of getting my message across, so
Anyone testing Android builds should be using recommended winmo Roms and radio.
The builders of these all recommends a particular custom winmo Rom, so to miniimize
Incidence of problems along the way. BTW am a big fan of mdeejay, now am
Using Clean 2.3 sense.
"subjective" you're telling me ay!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Wel according to bodybuilder27's post i aint the only one that 'misunderstood' the point.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
dashrink said:
Wel according to bodybuilder27's post i aint the only one that 'misunderstood' the point.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a very common problem in forums is misunderstanding and a major contributing
factor to this is people failing to read the whole thread or post.

[Q] Where is the MDJ build? I can't find in all the forum starting today...!!!

Why all the MDJ's bulid included Nand and SD build seems disapeared?
MDJ's threads was closed because his threads are not in compliance with the requirements of the GPL.
see http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=11208534&postcount=14
The threads are still there, but they're all closed and download links have been removed.
People should look and know before they respond. His threads are no longer on the forum. At least we can't see them any more. The Desire HD v4.6 was never closed with the others. It is gone too.
Maybe mods have them hidden. But the way MDJ was responding lately I doubt you will ever see them again.
He definitely made some awesome roms i'm glad i have all of them on desktop and on server so if i want to go back i can. draw back is there is no more updates.
does somebody of you guys have the latest build (2,6).
Plz give me a private message
Greetz
Agoattamer said:
...But the way MDJ was responding lately I doubt you will ever see them again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What was the statement from MDJ? Do you have informations about this?
I'm using the MDJ_FroYo_HD_v._4.6_MDJ_S78.0 since December and this SD-ROM works perfect.
Now thinking about a change to a NAND Version, and therefore today I'm searching for a MDJ-NAND-Build and now I find this message :-(
thank you for the info... bad news by the way..
its not well...
Very bad news ....
Hope he will share so we all can enjoy his build.
Rest of the builds arround are crap imo
phearell said:
does somebody of you guys have the latest build (2,6).
Plz give me a private message
Greetz
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Google MDJs_CyanogenMod7_v.2.6_NAND_A2SD CWM.zip this is the latest modified by xboarder56 the file is 89.25MB or 93,589,366 bytes(md5 sum as per Astro d784ecc1c9ee5998c5f8c28016f6c943)
Good luck, by the way the build is perfect.
now i'm using MDJ 2.6
i like this rom
fast, stable & freindl for battery (regular use)
i hope MDJ will make update to 2.7 version
geek_seeds said:
now i'm using MDJ 2.6
i like this rom
fast, stable & freindl for battery (regular use)
i hope MDJ will make update to 2.7 version
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
where can I get a copy of MDJ 2.6?
check out google for a russian forum with m-deejay roms.
Can someone plz explain me whatto do with the zip or zip content of forementioned mdj rom few post above?
Having put Hspl 2.08 and 2.15something radio on it along with MAGdlr that the phone now boots into auto when inserting battery
Htc official rom I can reinstal but the boot.img in Mdj's zip trows me of. I want a NAND installation of course.
Might be buggy windows on old laptop.
or Pm me...
Delibit said:
Can someone plz explain me whatto do with the zip or zip content of forementioned mdj rom few post above?
.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Make sure you have magldr 1.13
Now install CMW (i have the 1.2 version) http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=898913
After coping the files to the sd (CMW and the MDJ zip)
turn on the phone and hold the power button, then select boot ad sd.
next select zip from sd and select the mdj zip.
keep on posting updates if anyone knows the latest works of m-deejay ... he's still ahead of the curve, but i'm aching for an update.. so much potential to ban talent of his caliber especially being the OG cook for nand. patiently waiting, mdj number 1 choice, second is motoman's build!!
I've been using mdj nand cyanogen mod for a month or two, it's been lagging a bit and hot restarting often.
I don't know what I should use for my next rom...
Sent from my HTC HD2

[Q] Best way to flash ROM?

So ladies and gentleman,
I am new in this forum and i hope someone will help me
i want to flash my htc hd2 with this rom: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1062881 (the newest post)
and i downloaded this one : http://uploaded.to/file/94t1vplv/from/dsrnmw
my question now is:
should i usw this tutorial to install this rom or should i usw another tutorial? :S
http://www.enfeuman.com/2011/04/13/how-to-perform-a-clean-installation-on-nand-android-htc-hd2/
tamerkilinc said:
So ladies and gentleman,
I am new in this forum and i hope someone will help me
i want to flash my htc hd2 with this rom: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1062881 (the newest post)
and i downloaded this one : http://uploaded.to/file/94t1vplv/from/dsrnmw
my question now is:
should i usw this tutorial to install this rom or should i usw another tutorial? :S
http://www.enfeuman.com/2011/04/13/how-to-perform-a-clean-installation-on-nand-android-htc-hd2/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that tutorial will be sound id also recommend flashing task29 which will erase all data from stock rom winmo 6.5 which can be found HERE do this before any of the others.
LaneyEFC said:
that tutorial will be sound id also recommend flashing task29 which will erase all data from stock rom winmo 6.5 which can be found HERE do this before any of the others.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so you think its a good way to flash boyppc's rom with this tutorial?
tamerkilinc said:
so you think its a good way to flash boyppc's rom with this tutorial?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its not so much a good way its the ONLY way lol but as i dont see a clk mirror then magldr is your only option,
and you do know sense is experiencing a few errors at the moment with graphic glitches....
hmm.. but in the post of ppcboy's rom is a video where a guy is showing the rom and it works fantastic
tamerkilinc said:
hmm.. but in the post of ppcboy's rom is a video where a guy is showing the rom and it works fantastic
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
am not saying it wont work fantastic, all i was saying is sense has graphic glitches problem at the moment maybe his rom wont have them, you wont know until you try.
EDIT: that video is from v11 hes now got sense 3.0 v20....
samir_madan said:
Hi...Have tried the same....
Hows the battery life? - OK...but not as good as CM7 build...
Graphic glitches? - Are there (in heaps)
speed? - slower then CM7
freezing up? - NOPE - not even a single time as of now (using for 2 days)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that is from one of the posts of the rom you are looking at which is found on this page http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=15646383
hmm..
but he has 2.3.4 android version
which android version has cm 7.1? :S
cm_bravo_145 base includes Android 2.3.5
tamerkilinc said:
hmm..
but he has 2.3.4 android version
which android version has cm 7.1? :S
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HMM am only trying to help fella am not just saying it might have them am saying its a FACT the other roms may be sound but the sense rom has graphic glitches end of story, insted of wasting peoples time creating a thread asking there opinions and then telling them there wrong when you havnt flashed a rom YET just test the rom yourself..!! So in that case come back when you have flashed sense onit and tell me that it hasnt got glitches....
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA Premium App

[Q] htc hd2 with 2.3.2 cyanogenmod how to update to 2.3.7 or lastest

hi there
i have got a htc hd2 with 2.3.2 cyanogenmod and i want to know how to update to 2.3.7 or lastest fireware
can someone help me update to the newest fireware
kindest regards
mwain6969 said:
hi there
i have got a htc hd2 with 2.3.2 cyanogenmod and i want to know how to update to 2.3.7 or lastest fireware
can someone help me update to the newest fireware
kindest regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First, download Titanium Backup and create a backup of all your files to your SD card. Then, you can follow this guide to install any newer NAND Android build. There are loads of CM7 builds such as Hyperdroid and Dorimanx. I'm using Typhoon CM7 and it's great but it hasn't been updated since November and I can't remember if there have been any significant patches or updates since then. From what I've heard Dorimanx's ROM is good.
use rom manager,there you just have to click update ;-D
betayle said:
use rom manager,there you just have to click update ;-D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NO, do not do this, it doesn't just work like that. You need to give more information, but ROM manager doesn't support MAGLDR, and only works with cLK.
betayle said:
use rom manager,there you just have to click update ;-D
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As said before Rom manager is not compatible with MAGLDR.
go to android nand section and you will find your answer there .
Hyperdroid, Typhoon, Dorimanx, are the best non sens roms.
Energy, Team Blue Droid, are the best sense roms.
Good luck
If you would like my recommendation on a rom, I would suggest Hyperdroid. It is fast, stable, and reliable.
I've been using it for well over a year now and its speed and stability never fails to amaze me.
flamgodian said:
If you would like my recommendation on a rom, I would suggest Hyperdroid. It is fast, stable, and reliable.
I've been using it for well over a year now and its speed and stability never fails to amaze me.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's right hyper droid as said before is the best non sense rom and i use it for month's, and it's fast as thunder .

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