NAND = losing root after reboot? - EVO 4G General

So when a device is NAND, it means after each reboot the kernel and any modifications to it will be put back to normal right? But does this mean that an application could gain root for the session, and keep it until its rebooted?
Or in order for the root to work, you would have to reboot the device? at which point your kernel goes back to normal and you lose root?
Also if the above is right, and you can temporary root phones, wouldn't that mean ALL android devices are prone to temp rooting (doesn't matter if its htc, samsung, etc..) since the kernel is all the same on the devices?

That's WAY old scroll. Unrevoked and yer done.

Last-Chance said:
So when a device is NAND, it means after each reboot the kernel and any modifications to it will be put back to normal right? But does this mean that an application could gain root for the session, and keep it until its rebooted?
Or in order for the root to work, you would have to reboot the device? at which point your kernel goes back to normal and you lose root?
Also if the above is right, and you can temporary root phones, wouldn't that mean ALL android devices are prone to temp rooting (doesn't matter if its htc, samsung, etc..) since the kernel is all the same on the devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NAND is the type of memory the evo uses, the NAND lock just means the radio locks certain parts of it from being changed so only the recovery and bootloader have access to it. You can get a temporary root with the NAND locked but you won't be able to change anything on your bootloader, recovery or system partitions.

xHausx said:
NAND is the type of memory the evo uses, the NAND lock just means the radio locks certain parts of it from being changed so only the recovery and bootloader have access to it. You can get a temporary root with the NAND locked but you won't be able to change anything on your bootloader, recovery or system partitions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
don't you need system access to write custom su files? or do you mean the changes wont last?

Related

stock ROM modified to support read/write file system

i have an incredible. i spent days on end to figure out which root effort paid off.
once rooted, i found the filesystem was read only.
i have my eye on some nice roms you all have created, but they all seem to have their own little quirks.
for now, i would be estatic to get a stock ROM with read/write FS so i can screw it up all by myself.
does a stock ROM for incredible with r/w FS exist?
is it possible?
It's only possible through recovery as of right now.
binny1007 said:
It's only possible through recovery as of right now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i understand an incredible;s stock OS is limited to recovery, but i was hoping to hear you guys have superpowers to edit a ROM in other ways i am unfamiliar with.
lol thanks.
luvit said:
i understand an incredible;s stock OS is limited to recovery, but i was hoping to hear you guys have superpowers to edit a ROM in other ways i am unfamiliar with.
lol thanks.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We don't have NAND root access yet. Root Explorer is what you can use for R/W access, but when you go to mount the system again it will reboot... meaning we need NAND root. haha
taypotts said:
We don't have NAND root access yet. Root Explorer is what you can use for R/W access, but when you go to mount the system again it will reboot... meaning we need NAND root. haha
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ah thanks. i didn't know what nand meant until now. i have much to learn with no time. i;ll hang in there until cm6 seems flawless. d:
ultimately, i'm aiming for vpnc to work on my incredible.
it's the only vpn app that i can use with my employer.
Here's a clarification I posted in another thread like this:
You have superuser access on your phone, that means you have root.
An additional level of protection that HTC has added to their phones is a NAND-flash chip which is locked by a memory protection unit. This is below the OS level, and thus below superuser. You can still have full root access to your phone, and not have access to this chip. The reflash tool unlocks NAND and reflashes the recovery partition.
The only way to unlock this at the hardware level is an exploit, or by changing hboot such that it does not initiate the NAND protection. We are still hesitant to flash hboot. If you mess up reflashing recovery, you have an unlimited number of chances to get it right. If you mess up reflashing hboot, you have a permanent brick.
Thus, since the recovery partition is protected by this hardware-level memory protection unit, ROM manager cannot reflash the recovery partition. You people seem to say that this is "not fully rooted" so "it is not sticking". Whatever. Yes, it won't "stick". No, this doesn't actually matter. You get *precisely* the same effect by updating in ROM manager. If there is a critical update that requires flashing, we will make sure that our users obtain this update.
Note that you don't need this for vpn as far as I know--you just need a kernel that supports it. I could be wrong on this.
Moved as not Development.
rpearl said:
The only way to unlock this at the hardware level is an exploit, or by changing hboot such that it does not initiate the NAND protection. We are still hesitant to flash hboot. If you mess up reflashing recovery, you have an unlimited number of chances to get it right. If you mess up reflashing hboot, you have a permanent brick.
Thus, since the recovery partition is protected by this hardware-level memory protection unit, ROM manager cannot reflash the recovery partition. You people seem to say that this is "not fully rooted" so "it is not sticking". Whatever. Yes, it won't "stick". No, this doesn't actually matter. You get *precisely* the same effect by updating in ROM manager. If there is a critical update that requires flashing, we will make sure that our users obtain this update.
Note that you don't need this for vpn as far as I know--you just need a kernel that supports it. I could be wrong on this.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks, rpearl. i want to rephrase this so that you can verify i understand correctly:
even if i flash with CM6, i may still not have permanent r/w permissions due to NAND will still reflash the CM6 recovery partition.
Correct. While you still have "full root" access, and you have ClockworkModRecovery available, you're able to flash new roms. There is not currently a way to unlock NAND protection which would allow you to delete system files. Which is really alright, because the safest way to not brick your phone is to do all your testing on your computer via emulator.
If you want to dig in and start deleting apps, please do it in the kitchen, cooking up your own rom. And don't share it until you know it won't ruin phones.
luvit said:
ultimately, i'm aiming for vpnc to work on my incredible.
it's the only vpn app that i can use with my employer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
vpnc works fine. There are other threads on how to get it working.
Is there a Stock ROM available for use in recovery available, or is it phone specific?

[Q] MyTouch 4G: HTC Glacier - Perm root/with recovery?

I am new to the rooting scene and I am very eager to root my HTC Glacier|MyTouch 4G.
I am however hesitant because I cannot risk bricking my phone.
Advice on how to recover from brick and an easy to follow guide to perm-root.
Thanks
geronimo711 said:
I am new to the rooting scene and I am very eager to root my HTC Glacier|MyTouch 4G.
I am however hesitant because I cannot risk bricking my phone.
Advice on how to recover from brick and an easy to follow guide to perm-root.
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What is the end result you are trying to get to?
If you are wanting S=off so you can flash custom ROMs.
http://theunlockr.com/2010/12/10/how-to-temporarily-root-the-t-mobile-mytouch-4g-htc-glacier/; do that and it will lead you to perma root the easy way.
if you are wanting s=off so you can have complete control over your phone, which will enable the possibility of a brick. including SuperCID, ./gfree and some other goodies...... But this will give you the option to severally screw up your phone including up to a 500.00 paper weight.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=858996
If you haven't screwed up the HBoot and the bootloader you can use this to get back to a factory spec.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=863899&highlight=level
But if this is your first android, and your first time rooting i would HIGHLY suggest doing alot of reading before you jump in head first. There are alot of people who have tried to do and get stuck. This phone is confusing once rooted with 2.2 ROMs and 2.3 ROMs and different recovery images you need to read and make sure you understand everything before jumping in feet first.
Temp root with visionary is the easiest and safest way, but gfree is pretty simple as well. The hardest bit is getting the drivers and ADB to work, and thats not overly difficult. (remember to use the command "ADB devices" to know if the drives are working) It just matters what you plan on doing, stock root or custom ROM.
There is really only two points that risk a hard brick, flashing the radio or hboot.
The gfree method does not require either, but you can flash the engineering hboot as optional.
The biggest thing with recoveries and ROMs is know that gingerbread based ROMs (like CM7) use ext4 file system and froyo ROMs use ext3. So it is important to use the right version of Clockwork recovery. Use v2.5.1.2 for froyo ROMs and v3.0 for gingerbread ROMs. Soon clockwork mod will support both on the same version.
Just read the instructions well and have all files downloaded and ready to go.
If you want to use gfree and a custom ROM, there is no need to get perm root on the stock ROM first. After the steps that get s=off, just run visionary as temp root with system r/w access and install ROM manager from the market, then use ROM manager to flash a new recovery. Reboot into recovery backup your stock ROM then flash a new ROM.
If you never touch the hboot or radio firmware, then at worse you can bootloop or soft brick the device. That can be fixed with varying amounts of work, depending on the exact issue.
Read and learn how the different parts work, learn how to use ADB and you will be better prepared.
newbie here
This is my first post. I would really appreciate anybody helping me out here. I can't seem to get any straight answers, or answers I can understand, anyway, so here goes.
I have an HTC Mytouch 4g. I did a temporary root (using the method at theunlockr.com) and uninstalled the monopoly app. I was going to uninstall a bunch of other stuff but I got nervous and did a factory data reset (in the SD & phone storage area). All of my marketplace apps reinstalled, which I thought wasn't supposed to happen, but anyway.... I did the volume down/power on and see now that my phone is GLACIER PVT SHIP S-ON. So my question is how to interpret the state that my phone is now in. Is it factory? Is it rooted? Will the T-Mobile OTA updates work? Why is the monopoly app still gone? Is my warranty voided?
ibnird said:
This is my first post. I would really appreciate anybody helping me out here. I can't seem to get any straight answers, or answers I can understand, anyway, so here goes.
I have an HTC Mytouch 4g. I did a temporary root (using the method at theunlockr.com) and uninstalled the monopoly app. I was going to uninstall a bunch of other stuff but I got nervous and did a factory data reset (in the SD & phone storage area). All of my marketplace apps reinstalled, which I thought wasn't supposed to happen, but anyway.... I did the volume down/power on and see now that my phone is GLACIER PVT SHIP S-ON. So my question is how to interpret the state that my phone is now in. Is it factory? Is it rooted? Will the T-Mobile OTA updates work? Why is the monopoly app still gone? Is my warranty voided?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Temp root is just that, temporary. It creates a copy of the essential files in the system partition that it runs from rather than the actual system partition. If you allow it r/w access, (an option you can choose when using visionary) it can uninstall apps that normally can not be. (and more, but causing big changes would require more work on your part)
Because it is temporary, there is no need to get nervous. Unless you are doing some major changes, ones that need a root explorer app or terminal emulator, then you can't really hurt the phone. Download terminal emulator from market and run it, then type in the super user command "su" (no quotes) then hit enter, if the cursor changes to a # symbol then you have root. (you may get a popup asking for root permission, choose to allow) If it works after a fresh reboot, you either ran perm root in visionary, or you have the option checked to temp root every reboot.
S-ON means that the bootloader security is still in place. You need it off to install custom software. While you can root the stock software with S-ON you can not install any software that has potential to brick your phone, so no need to worry at all. If you are really that worried, keep a copy of the stock software on your SD card. Make sure it is named PD15IMG and at any time you get nervous, you can boot into hboot (the bootloader) and it will run automatically. It will wipe your phone and return it to complete stock. The irony is, that flashing this stock image file does things that can brick a phone if it goes wrong. It flashes more than just the OS, it also flashes hboot and recovery as well, and if the process is messed up in anyway like loosing power at the wrong time, it can brick the phone.
Really as long as you make sure you have the phone charged and you follow instructions you should be fine. The only times you can brick a phone to the point it can not be brought back is when flashing hboot and the radio firmware. Both of which you would rarely flash. Hboot only needs flashed to the engineering version once (OEM testing/DEV version) and only if you choose to, as it is not required. The radio will only need flashed if an update for it comes out, and that isn't often, and it is rarely mandatory.
The chance of truly bricking your phone is not very high, unless you just can't follow the directions. Now you can put it into a bootloop or soft brick it. (bootup stuck on mytouch screen) But if you can boot the phone into hboot (vol down + power on) then you can fix it. Even if you can not boot into recovery (an option in the hboot menu) you can even fix that with a good hboot.
theres a video on youtube by mackster its awesome and it gives you all the links very easy to use.
it wont let me post the link but just search root mytouch 4g on youtube and it should be the first or second one.
Thanks Marine and Tommy.
So with temporary root, as soon as I turned off and then back on the phone, it was back to its unrooted, original state, minus the T-Mobile application? Will I now get T-Mobile's Over the Air (OTA, right?) updates and not have a problem if I need warranty work?
ibnird said:
Thanks Marine and Tommy.
So with temporary root, as soon as I turned off and then back on the phone, it was back to its unrooted, original state, minus the T-Mobile application? Will I now get T-Mobile's Over the Air (OTA, right?) updates and not have a problem if I need warranty work?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uninstalling an app will not hurt anything. OTA updates will still work fine. You can temp root and then perm root the stock ROM and revert easily. Heck, even perm rooting stock doesn't break OTA I believe.
Voiding the warranty is one of those grey areas. As long as you can revert to stock, then they will never know. Temp root does not void warranty at all, because you do not alter the system files. (unless you want to, and enable the ability to read/write system) Just uninstall terminal emulator and super user apps and there is no evidence.
The only time you might get caught, is if say the screen stops working, and you can not see to revert back. Though even then, just putting the stock OTA image on the sd card then booting up the phone in hboot will restore without needing to actually see anything. It does ask for confirmation to restore, just wait several minutes then hit the power button and it would do it on its own.
The set of circumstances needed to prevent you from restoring to stock, are rare. Basically a borked hboot or radio firmware, and you never need to touch those to get full root and custom ROMs. If you never touch them, the chance of issue is almost zero.
I just got my mt4g and I am looking to root my phone for the following reasons:
apps2sd
remove bloatware (I want the app to be disabled and I don't want the icon in my app drawer)
use adfree
I don't want any custom roms and I'd like to keep sense ui.
Can anyone tell me if this is at all possible? I've read around and I know it's possible but I don't know about rom flashing and I'm confused as to whether or not I need to flash a custom rom? What's the point of a custom rom anyways?
goldfish524 said:
I just got my mt4g and I am looking to root my phone for the following reasons:
apps2sd
remove bloatware (I want the app to be disabled and I don't want the icon in my app drawer)
use adfree
I don't want any custom roms and I'd like to keep sense ui.
Can anyone tell me if this is at all possible? I've read around and I know it's possible but I don't know about rom flashing and I'm confused as to whether or not I need to flash a custom rom? What's the point of a custom rom anyways?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You dont need apps2sd, as the mytouch 4g has Froyo installed, and you can move some apps to the SD card. Just go into settings-Applications-chose the applicaiton you want on your SD card, and look for "move to SD". If it's grayed out, then you cant move it.
Also download appfreezer from the market, and just "freeze" the bloatware. That's what I do, and it gets rid of those annoying looking apps they installed.
Question about clockworkmod
OK i just rooted my phone, flashed the rom, and installed all the goods... it works perfectly and looks great.
Ty for all the guides/ instructions.
My only question is about the clockworkmod. When I turn off my phone and plug it in to charge the recovery screen always appears when off and connected. Is this suppose to happen? Or is there a solution to this?
If there is a solution can some one post a link or provide instructions so it doesn't constantly boot to clockworkmod recovery.
Thanks.

[Q] Unlocking vs rooting

Potential first time Nexus user coming over from Desire Z.
I intend to transfer my old data from my DZ to the nexus4 when I get it via Titanium Backup. My DZ is rooted with S-off, so it's all good.
I've stumbled over instructions on how to unlock the nexus4 via ABD, but if I'm not wrong, that's only to allow flashing of custom bootloaders and ROMs, right?
Which is to say, unlocking != rooting, and in order for Titanium Backup to work properly, the n4 will have to be rooted as well as SU, busybox etc installed.
Am I on the right track?
Cheers.
nexus come unlock.
unlock = to be use with any carrier
rooting = giving beyond standard permissions such as changing how android does things. EG overclocking, changing your sound "quailty" etc and you said. TB (titanium backup)
Unlock can also mean bootloader unlocking so you can flash/boot from custom recoveries, ROMs, kernels etc (the previous poster was referring to SIM unlocking).
It's just as easy to root, simply install/flash SuperSU via recovery though ChainsDD's Superuser works as well.
Unlawful said:
Unlock can also mean bootloader unlocking so you can flash/boot from custom recoveries, ROMs, kernels etc (the previous poster was referring to SIM unlocking).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks Unlawful. Yes, I meant bootloader unlocking.
Unlawful said:
It's just as easy to root, simply install/flash SuperSU via recovery though ChainsDD's Superuser works as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you mean to say that the nexus4 comes rooted? Because installing of any of the SU apps require the phone to already be rooted, which I assume is not the case even for Nexus devices.
endlesstrail said:
Thanks Unlawful. Yes, I meant bootloader unlocking.
Do you mean to say that the nexus4 comes rooted? Because installing of any of the SU apps require the phone to already be rooted, which I assume is not the case even for Nexus devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I doubt it. Be cool if it did
Once you have it unlocked you enter the recovery mode and root it there. I'm probably guessing shortly after its release someone is going to make a program so it does it in few steps.
There won't be anything really out that really requires root, other than TB.
endlesstrail said:
Thanks Unlawful. Yes, I meant bootloader unlocking.
Do you mean to say that the nexus4 comes rooted? Because installing of any of the SU apps require the phone to already be rooted, which I assume is not the case even for Nexus devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Nexus 4 does not come rooted. You have to root it.
NeverAlwaysEver said:
Nexus 4 does not come rooted. You have to root it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks guys. I guessed as much.
Yeah, I'll probably have to do without the backup of my apps for a few days until some kind soul manages to root it and posts instructions. Maybe it'll just be a day or a few hours even! :fingers-crossed:
You will be able to unlock the bootloader right away.
Root maybe not. In order to root it you will need either need a custom recovery for the device or a software exploit.
It won't take long but a custom recovery needs to be built and tested first.
It's easy to root a nexus
First you unlock the bootloader=fastboot oem unlock.
Then you use fastboot to flash a recovery. Once recovery is flashed you have to use adb to make it stick(delete the script that overwrite custom recovery with stock) then you flash su. Zip in recovery. Very simple to do
Sent from my SCH-I535 using xda premium
Unlawful said:
Unlock can also mean bootloader unlocking so you can flash/boot from custom recoveries, ROMs, kernels etc (the previous poster was referring to SIM unlocking).
It's just as easy to root, simply install/flash SuperSU via recovery though ChainsDD's Superuser works as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just want to clarify, I have not had a nexus device before, but my understanding is that, even on a Nexus, without unlocking the bootloader, one would still need to exploit and mount system as RW first to install SU.
USSENTERNCC1701E said:
Just want to clarify, I have not had a nexus device before, but my understanding is that, even on a Nexus, without unlocking the bootloader, one would still need to exploit and mount system as RW first to install SU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Without unlocking the bootloader, it's much more difficult to root and as you said, one would need to use an exploit and then do as you have said. However, Nexus devices do come with the luxury of unlockable bootloaders for a multitude of reasons .
endlesstrail said:
Do you mean to say that the nexus4 comes rooted? Because installing of any of the SU apps require the phone to already be rooted, which I assume is not the case even for Nexus devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think Chainfire meant that in case you wanted to switch from Superuser to SuperSU or if you're just installing the APK (the application). If you do want to root, you should just flash the zip file found here in a custom recovery which does everything for you.
Unlawful said:
Without unlocking the bootloader, it's much more difficult to root and as you said, one would need to use an exploit and then do as you have said. However, Nexus devices do come with the luxury of unlockable bootloaders for a multitude of reasons .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks. Bytheby, my only experience in the past with non-hack bootloader unlocking is with HTCunlock. Have past nexus devices had a permanent watermark even after relocking? I'm hoping that's not the case, cause extensive googling does not have anyone explicitly saying one way or the other, so maybe only HTC is that jacked.
I just want to clear up some terminology to stop people getting confused...
Bootloader a.k.a HBoot - This is the piece of software that runs before anything else on the phone. It basically packages it all up, tells what to run in what order e.t.c Every computer device has a bootloader in some form or another, be it an Android Phone, iPhone, Windows PC, iMac e.t.c. The HBoot is accessible by switching your phone off, then holding down volume down as you turn it back on. The first line of the HBoot will tell you if you are S-OFF or S-ON.
Recovery - The recovery is the piece of software that allows us to write files to partitions while they aren't being used. It is the portal to allow us to flash custom ROM's and kernels. There are custom recoveries with more options than the stock such as ClockworkMod.
Superuser a.k.a su or Root - This is a user that is present on all linux distros that allows higher permissions than standard users have access to. Certain apps need superuser permissions to function, such as Titanium Backup.
A bootloader is traditionally locked. This means it stops you from writing to any partition on the device other than data. What is always true of Nexus devices, and now true of most consumer devices, there is an offical method for unlocking the bootloader. With HTC, you have to download some software, with Nexus devices, it is as simple as booting into fastboot mode, and typing the command "fastboot oem unlock" (assuming you have fastboot installed on your connected PC / mac).
Although this unlocks the bootloader (which by the way resets your device to factory settings), you still aren't rooted. You now have the ability to flash images to the previously locked partitions. Once you have access to write to partitions, the easiest method of rooting is installing a custom recovery (fastboot flash recovery recovery.img, and then using that to flash a superuser zip.
There are exploits for rooting, which either eman the recovery partition gets written to without the bootloader unlocking OR the su files get pushed to the system partition while the bootloader is locked. These exploits are more tricky and are getting harder to find, but allow you to gain root access without voiding your warranty.
To answer someone else's question, when you unlocked the bootloader on the Nexus One you got a watermark on the bootsplash, I don't know about any Nexus after that.
EDIT - Unlocked Phone: To throw some further clarification, when people talk about "unlocked phones" what they actually means is carrier. This term pre-dates smartphones, and a locked phone just meant that if you bought your phone through a carrier, you could only use it on their network, so no other SIM would work unless you bought a code off them to unlock it. This only applied to GSM phones (not CDMA) and s still practised today. The Nexus 4 will not be carrier locked wherever you buy it.
l0st.prophet said:
I just want to clear up some terminology to stop people getting confused...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the excellent clarification. It's much clearer now.
USSENTERNCC1701E said:
Thanks. Bytheby, my only experience in the past with non-hack bootloader unlocking is with HTCunlock. Have past nexus devices had a permanent watermark even after relocking? I'm hoping that's not the case, cause extensive googling does not have anyone explicitly saying one way or the other, so maybe only HTC is that jacked.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Both the Galaxy Nexus and the Nexus 7 don't have anything changed when you unlock the bootloader (apart from an unlocked lock image on the boot screen beneath the Google logo and then it disappears after going to the boot animation). I would assume this was the same with the Nexus S . Also another good thing about Nexus devices is that you can relock the bootloader after unlocking it and it will be back to a stock configuration (assuming you're on the Google-built ROM).
PlanBSTi said:
There won't be anything really out that really requires root, other than TB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I beg to differ; DroidWall is the one utility I refuse to live without, and that requires root.
Other than that and TitaniumBackup though, you're quite right; the new stock features of JellyBean mean I likely won't even bother with any major third-party modifications. Indeed, I'm thinking this'll be the first 'phone in many a year which I won't be installing a custom ROM on for at least the first six months of use.
PlanBSTi said:
There won't be anything really out that really requires root, other than TB.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol, the irony is I really only use TB because I'm switching ROMs. I disagree though, I really like the extra customization that comes with a lot of custom ROM's. But I've run phones for a few months with OEM skins, while waiting on an exploit. I agree there won't be a pressing need for root.
I guess you guys like to actually see ads on your phones.
albundy2010 said:
I guess you guys like to actually see ads on your phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I actually don't find many apps to have very intrusive ads at all. I also feel better knowing I'm not ripping off the devs
albundy2010 said:
I guess you guys like to actually see ads on your phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've never actually ended up with an air push app, and the rest of the ads really don't bother me, sometimes I'll go on a clicking spree to support devs. If it really bothers me I buy the full version or uninstall it.

Verizon 4.4.2 OTA discussion for LOCKED bootloaders

The other thread was just too messy with too much cross information.
So, here's the quick and dirty. If you're on 4.4. and rooted you can upgrade to 4.4.2 after disabling Gravity Box and ANY mods (wifi tether, etc) and you will keep root but you will lose the ability to write to the system. This effectively makes root useless.
It's unlikely 4.4.2 will ever be rooted, but there is some sliver of hope that a solution will be found (likely involving SBF) that allows you to retain root and /system RW but it can't be taken for granted.
There's lots of other info, but this thread is just designed to separate out the discussions.
Just to add..
Inside the OTA is a manifest file which which contains check sums for files which need to exist on your phone. If the expected files are not on your phone, or the checksums of the files don't match the manifest, the OTA will fail. Hence why you need to undo some of the "hacks" and "mods"
Addtioinally to install the OTA, you need to have stock recovery on your phone. If its not on there, the OTA will either fail, or worse, put you in a boot loop! (erasing your phone's cache can help you out of the loop... mfastboot erase cache )
Once you are on 4.4.2, you can not downgrade your rom to 4.4 or older!! Trying to downgrade can/will result in bricking your device.
Can anyone comment on the "This will be permanent" warning from when rooting with SlapMyMoto/MotoWPNoMo?
I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row before I update to 4.4.2 and lose a functional root.
I'm thinking of reflashing /sys or restoring tether hack, and accepting OTA.
evandena said:
Can anyone comment on the "This will be permanent" warning from when rooting with SlapMyMoto/MotoWPNoMo?
I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row before I update to 4.4.2 and lose a functional root.
I'm thinking of reflashing /sys or restoring tether hack, and accepting OTA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
When MotoWPNoMo came its disabling write protection was "permanent" (it survived flashing between the roms which were out at that time) however it does NOT survive the 4.4.2 OTA.
The statement in the initial post... "keep root but you will lose the ability to write to the system. This effectively makes root useless. " is 100% accurate for those with locked bootloaders.
I got the notification this morning when I woke up that the OTA was downloaded and ready to install. It was a persistent notification, and I didn't want it there. I long pressed on it and went to app info, which was MotoOTA. I force stopped it, which did remove the notification, but it came back immediately.
I then unchecked the "show notifications" box and it was gone. I'm not really a fan of freezing apps with TiBu or anything like that, so this worked for me. I don't really care to update unless I can keep root and have write protection off.
I didn't see anything in the changelog that really implied that I'm missing much by not upgrading, for now at least. I decided to get the Moto Maker edition because I valued the customization more than then unlocked bootloader. The phone works great and does everything I need it to right now, so I have no desire to upgrade and lose root yet.
One question though, I read somewhere before that booting through recovery disables write protection, and allows you to install Xposed and other root stuff. I assume that write protect being off only lasts until the next reboot? And then you'd need to boot through recovery again, and possibly apply things through Xposed each time? Or is it just for initial setup?
fury683 said:
One question though, I read somewhere before that booting through recovery disables write protection, and allows you to install Xposed and other root stuff. I assume that write protect being off only lasts until the next reboot? And then you'd need to boot through recovery again, and possibly apply things through Xposed each time? Or is it just for initial setup?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't have to boot into recovery each time. You do need to soft reboot each time after a hard reboot though for it to stick
evandena said:
Can anyone comment on the "This will be permanent" warning from when rooting with SlapMyMoto/MotoWPNoMo?
I'm trying to get all my ducks in a row before I update to 4.4.2 and lose a functional root.
I'm thinking of reflashing /sys or restoring tether hack, and accepting OTA.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well that didn't work. I'm stuck in a boot loop now. Guess I'll try flashing /sys when I get home.
fury683 said:
...One question though, I read somewhere before that booting through recovery disables write protection, and allows you to install Xposed and other root stuff. I assume that write protect being off only lasts until the next reboot? And then you'd need to boot through recovery again, and possibly apply things through Xposed each time? Or is it just for initial setup?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The early root processes (RockMyMoto and SlapMyMoto) replaced stock recovery with a trick that booted the phone with write protect disabled. To take the OTA, you need to put stock recovery back, thus removing this trick.
Later, MotoWPNoMo replaced the trick of booting to a tricked recovery, and allowed Write Protection to be disabled for normal boot too, and allowed stock recovery to be put back on, but this doesn't survive the OTA.
---------- Post added at 05:35 PM ---------- Previous post was at 05:34 PM ----------
evandena said:
Well that didn't work. I'm stuck in a boot loop now. Guess I'll try flashing /sys when I get home.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No. Put your phone in bootloader mode... then...
mfastboot erase cache
KidJoe said:
No. Put your phone in bootloader mode... then...
mfastboot erase cache
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can that be done from the phone with fastboot, or do I need my computer? I haven't messed with this stuff since November, so I'm a little rusty.
evandena said:
Can that be done from the phone with fastboot, or do I need my computer? I haven't messed with this stuff since November, so I'm a little rusty.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have to enter that command from the PC
Wifi Tether require Write Protection?
I wasn't able to find an answer on this so I'm asking here. The only thing I really use root for on my Moto X is the wifi tether because I still have unlimited data. I am wondering if I can keep root through the OTA and keep using the Wifi Tether app after it reenables write protection. Thanks in advance.
Reserved Name said:
I wasn't able to find an answer on this so I'm asking here. The only thing I really use root for on my Moto X is the wifi tether because I still have unlimited data. I am wondering if I can keep root through the OTA and keep using the Wifi Tether app after it reenables write protection. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You'll probably have to keep the file on your phone to replace each time you do a hard reboot. Without R/W, your changes won't stick after a boot. Otherwise, I think you can still use the entitlement trick without an issue other than it not sticking.
Reserved Name said:
I wasn't able to find an answer on this so I'm asking here. The only thing I really use root for on my Moto X is the wifi tether because I still have unlimited data. I am wondering if I can keep root through the OTA and keep using the Wifi Tether app after it reenables write protection. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like to know this too. At this point the only thing I really use root for is Greenify, which no longer requires root, tethering with my unlimited data (VZ), and bypassing the exchange pin requirement.
KidJoe said:
Have to enter that command from the PC
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm having problems getting into recovery. Once I select Recovery from the fastboot menu, it boots straight into normal mode.
*edit* maybe I don't need adb to recognize the phone for fastboot erase cache to work. Playing with it now...
*edit 2* ok, it looks like that stopped my boot loops. Now to figure out why the update didn't work the first time...
CartlandSmith said:
you select recovery by hitting vol up button.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, was. It was booting to safe mode when Recovery was selected.
I should clarify, I don't use the entitlement hack I just use the Wifi Tether apk. Just wondering if it requires write protection to be disabled or not. Thanks.
If I take the OTA and have root but no system RW, is it still possible to install Xposed, soft reboot, and it works normally until a hard reboot happens? Or is Xposed completely broken?
Reserved Name said:
I wasn't able to find an answer on this so I'm asking here. The only thing I really use root for on my Moto X is the wifi tether because I still have unlimited data. I am wondering if I can keep root through the OTA and keep using the Wifi Tether app after it reenables write protection. Thanks in advance.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're talking "wifi tether for root" like this -> https://code.google.com/p/android-wifi-tether/
I don't think it will work due to the changes it makes when you start and stop tethering. (It appears to update files in the normally write protected area). Then again, if temp changes can be made after 4.4.2 is installed, it might work.
I think you and I are the only ones who use that app.. most everyone else is using Xposed or the hacked entitlement apk.
evandena said:
I'm having problems getting into recovery. Once I select Recovery from the fastboot menu, it boots straight into normal mode.
*edit* maybe I don't need adb to recognize the phone for fastboot erase cache to work. Playing with it now...
*edit 2* ok, it looks like that stopped my boot loops. Now to figure out why the update didn't work the first time...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it's booting normally when you select recovery, it's because your recovery is missing - probably because you used SlapMyMoto.
You need to restore your recovery... you can boot into fastboot, then write the correct recovery to your phone with fastboot flash recovery recovery.img, where recovery.img is a file pulled out of the SBF package for whatever version you're running.
You guys really should just wait! Even if a new root method isn't discovered, you will be able to flash a stock 4.4.2 ROM or Eclipse's stock-based ROM via Safestrap soon enough. Certainly not worth risking losing root! Patience!
Sent from my Moto X

How protect phone data when bootloader unlocked?

Hello,
I doesn't know if this is a real problem in newer Android versions.
I apologize if this problem is already solved; i'm out of Android development since a while...
From me the problem is to protect MY data if I loss the phone...
If my phone is password protected (and bootloader locked), a person that found the device can't use it directly.
It can unlock the bootloader (more or less easily) but the phone data is removed by the unlock process.
My data is sure!
But if the bootloader is unlocked the person that has found my phone can acess to the custom recovery (or load a custom recovery if I'm on stock recovery) then force a wipe of the device.
Due to that, all my security (fingerprint and lock code) was erased and the user can access to my phone and also to all the data stored in /sdcard.
My data isn't sure!
It exists any mode to use a custom ROM but maintaining my data sure?
(I'm not confidence with the Google remote device access)
Thanks in advance!
I think you'll be fine, as the data on your internal memory should be encypted, which is enabled by default!
I'll be honest and I mean no offense but your data is worthless. If someone steals your device the first things done are Sim removed and devices reset or powered off. Data thieves don't get the data from stolen devices. They get it from the places we give it freely. Like shopping stores and on line accounts.
Nobody can access your phone data the way you describe unless you also run your phone decrypted --which is not the default for Android or even for custom ROMs for that matter. When you boot into recovery on a phone that is encrypted TWRP asks for your pin number and without it your data is not accessible. But that doesn't mean a thief couldn't still wipe and use your phone. You need to report it stolen so the IMEI number is blacklisted.
jhs39 said:
Nobody can access your phone data the way you describe unless you also run your phone decrypted --which is not the default for Android or even for custom ROMs for that matter. When you boot into recovery on a phone that is encrypted TWRP asks for your pin number and without it your data is not accessible. But that doesn't mean a thief couldn't still wipe and use your phone. You need to report it stolen so the IMEI number is blacklisted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The /sdcard in phones that doesn't have external sdcard, like O+5, are also protected by the encriptation?
Thanks
bartito said:
The /sdcard in phones that doesn't have external sdcard, like O+5, are also protected by the encriptation?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yep, like any other android, the oneplus 5 has full disk encryption enabled by default:
http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/1...ll-disk-encryption-by-default-on-new-devices/
bartito said:
Hello,
I doesn't know if this is a real problem in newer Android versions.
I apologize if this problem is already solved; i'm out of Android development since a while...
...........................................
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, IMO your concern is right to some extent.
With an unlocked bootloader, if there is some version of TWRP (or any other customer recovery for that matter) that can decrypt your data partition automatically or if you have ever formatted your /data partition from TWRP , or even an insecure kernel (most insecure kernels allow USB debugging without asking for authorization keys), all the thief needs is 2 adb commands and your screen lock will be turned off and all your stuff will be exposed 'as is'.
For educational purposes, the commands are:
Code:
adb shell rm /data/system/*.key
adb reboot
Now, for that matter, having a locked bootloader either doesn't ensure that your data is safe. For example, for HTC phones, you don't even need to unlock the bootloader for flashing a custom recovery or kernel. You can turn the phone to S-Off state using some proprietary tools (without losing data) and then flash custom images over a locked bootloader.
In case of Samsung, only FRP lock prevents you from flashing custom images (that too on newer phones) but in that case also, you can turn FRP off using some paid services and then flash any custom images and run the above mentioned commands.
In case of LG, it is even easier. Professional tools exist for communication over download mode protocol and turning off the screen lock doesn't even require a custom image in LG's case. However, most newer models are not supported by those tools yet.
In case of Apple, professional tools existed that used to read screen lock over a time span of 1-4 hours in an older version of iOS. I've heard that a tool is being made available for the current versions also in the coming weeks.
So, if you are conscious about your data, it is safe as far as the you have the phone in your possession. Once you lose it, you can't be sure about what is happening with it.
But then, as said in above posts, why would the thief want to crack open the data of a common man. If you are not a common man, you should worry. Otherwise I personally really don't care.
Hello,
Absolutelly appreciate your anwer.
I'm a common man, but I'm a bit worried due to 2 points:
1) I'm using LastPass and I doesn't would to my passwords to fall into someone's hands if I loss the device,
2) I'm using the app from my bank to pay using NFC and I doesn't would that anyone can use it
EDIT: 3) Of course, I'm using my Google account to store my contacts data. It would be a mess if someone erase my contacts
Thanks!
sikander3786 said:
Well, IMO your concern is right to some extent.
With an unlocked bootloader, if there is some version of TWRP (or any other customer recovery for that matter) that can decrypt your data partition automatically or if you have ever formatted your /data partition from TWRP , or even an insecure kernel (most insecure kernels allow USB debugging without asking for authorization keys), all the thief needs is 2 adb commands and your screen lock will be turned off and all your stuff will be exposed 'as is'.
For educational purposes, the commands are:
Code:
adb shell rm /data/system/*.key
adb reboot
Now, for that matter, having a locked bootloader either doesn't ensure that your data is safe. For example, for HTC phones, you don't even need to unlock the bootloader for flashing a custom recovery or kernel. You can turn the phone to S-Off state using some proprietary tools (without losing data) and then flash custom images over a locked bootloader.
In case of Samsung, only FRP lock prevents you from flashing custom images (that too on newer phones) but in that case also, you can turn FRP off using some paid services and then flash any custom images and run the above mentioned commands.
In case of LG, it is even easier. Professional tools exist for communication over download mode protocol and turning off the screen lock doesn't even require a custom image in LG's case. However, most newer models are not supported by those tools yet.
In case of Apple, professional tools existed that used to read screen lock over a time span of 1-4 hours in an older version of iOS. I've heard that a tool is being made available for the current versions also in the coming weeks.
So, if you are conscious about your data, it is safe as far as the you have the phone in your possession. Once you lose it, you can't be sure about what is happening with it.
But then, as said in above posts, why would the thief want to crack open the data of a common man. If you are not a common man, you should worry. Otherwise I personally really don't care.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jhs39 said:
Nobody can access your phone data the way you describe unless you also run your phone decrypted --which is not the default for Android or even for custom ROMs for that matter. When you boot into recovery on a phone that is encrypted TWRP asks for your pin number and without it your data is not accessible. But that doesn't mean a thief couldn't still wipe and use your phone. You need to report it stolen so the IMEI number is blacklisted.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Black listing the imei doesn't work everywhere. Plus while banned on xda so I can't say how. But the imei is not that hard to change.
bartito said:
Hello,
Absolutelly appreciate your anwer.
I'm a common man, but I'm a bit worried due to 2 points:
1) I'm using LastPass and I doesn't would to my passwords to fall into someone's hands if I loss the device,
2) I'm using the app from my bank to pay using NFC and I doesn't would that anyone can use it
EDIT: 3) Of course, I'm using my Google account to store my contacts data. It would be a mess if someone erase my contacts
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe some experts can give their opinion on how to protect your data using some third party apps or by using some other options that I am not aware of. But in my opinion, a phone with an unlocked bootloader is always more vulnerable than a phone with locked bootloader.
Of course, I agree with your affirmation at 100%
The question is: I can improve security if I keep TWRP as a recovery instead of return to the stock recovery and I lock the bootloader?
Thanks
sikander3786 said:
Maybe some experts can give their opinion on how to protect your data using some third party apps or by using some other options that I am not aware of. But in my opinion, a phone with an unlocked bootloader is always more vulnerable than a phone with locked bootloader.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bartito said:
Of course, I agree with your affirmation at 100%
The question is: I can improve security if I keep TWRP as a recovery instead of return to the stock recovery and I lock the bootloader?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't think you will be able to boot TWRP after relocking the bootloader. You need to test it yourself. Chances are very few because locked bootloaders prevent from booting un-signed images.
If you do manage to boot TWRP after relocking, make sure your data is encrypted. If it is not, then it doesn't matter if the bootloader is locked or not.
Also, you will need to turn off "oem unlock" option from developer options.
sikander3786 said:
I don't think you will be able to boot TWRP after relocking the bootloader. You need to test it yourself. Chances are very few because locked bootloaders prevent from booting un-signed images.
If you do manage to boot TWRP after relocking, make sure your data is encrypted. If it is not, then it doesn't matter if the bootloader is locked or not.
Also, you will need to turn off "oem unlock" option from developer options.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think in the end I will stay as I am: bootloader unlocked and TWRP instead of the original recovery.
After all... I've never lost a phone...
bartito said:
The /sdcard in phones that doesn't have external sdcard, like O+5, are also protected by the encriptation?
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I haven't checked, but I believe it should.
nxss4 said:
Yep, like any other android, the oneplus 5 has full disk encryption enabled by default:
http://www.androidpolice.com/2015/1...ll-disk-encryption-by-default-on-new-devices/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uh no, OP5 with OOS 4.5.x Nougat uses File-Based Encryption (FBE), not FDE.
I know because I wrote the utility to get back to FDE, which works if you change the/fstab* file:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3672477
sikander3786 said:
Well, IMO your concern is right to some extent.
With an unlocked bootloader, if there is some version of TWRP (or any other customer recovery for that matter) that can decrypt your data partition automatically or if you have ever formatted your /data partition from TWRP , or even an insecure kernel (most insecure kernels allow USB debugging without asking for authorization keys), all the thief needs is 2 adb commands and your screen lock will be turned off and all your stuff will be exposed 'as is'.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have a source for the first part of that information? The part where if userdata is formatted with TWRP, it is vulnerable?
I don't see how that can happen unless you run decrypted. TWRP is never involved in the encryption process. When you format userdata, it just runs mkfs. Android upon booting sees the forceencrypt flag in the fstab and then promptly encrypt the device with a default passphrase. When you later set up security, the passphrase is changed to whatever you input.
How can TWRP decrypt the files at this point without your passphrase?
Note that if you are running FBE, and run adb shell on a device that's booted into TWRP while waiting for the password, you will be able to see the file structure under /data, but most of its contents will be garbage (=encrypted).
If you're running FDE, and run adb shell on a device that's booted into TWRP, /data will be completely inaccessible.
sikander3786 said:
For educational purposes, the commands are:
Code:
adb shell rm /data/system/*.key
adb reboot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This will remove the PIN/password phrase to get into Android, but won't give access to any encrypted files.
That may mess your phone royally as well.
Hello,
Thanks for your anwer. I appreciate the time that have you spend on my question
I need to go to the FDE thread to learn a bit more about the process and results.
Now, I have 2 more questions...
1) If the phone is encrypted with FBE a user can remove user passwords using "adb shell rm /data/system/*.key
&& adb reboot" commands, like @sikander3786 has explained but, due to the device is encripted, it can't access to my data
and the device will require for the decrypt password when booting in normal mode or recovery. I'm correct?
2) If the device is encrypted with FBE a user can access to /sdcard even without the decrypt password in recovery (TWRP) mode but not if encrypted with FDE?
Thanks again!
Fif_ said:
I haven't checked, but I believe it should.
Uh no, OP5 with OOS 4.5.x Nougat uses File-Based Encryption (FBE), not FDE.
I know because I wrote the utility to get back to FDE, which works if you change the/fstab* file:
https://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=3672477
Do you have a source for the first part of that information? The part where if userdata is formatted with TWRP, it is vulnerable?
I don't see how that can happen unless you run decrypted. TWRP is never involved in the encryption process. When you format userdata, it just runs mkfs. Android upon booting sees the forceencrypt flag in the fstab and then promptly encrypt the device with a default passphrase. When you later set up security, the passphrase is changed to whatever you input.
How can TWRP decrypt the files at this point without your passphrase?
Note that if you are running FBE, and run adb shell on a device that's booted into TWRP while waiting for the password, you will be able to see the file structure under /data, but most of its contents will be garbage (=encrypted).
If you're running FDE, and run adb shell on a device that's booted into TWRP, /data will be completely inaccessible.
This will remove the PIN/password phrase to get into Android, but won't give access to any encrypted files.
That may mess your phone royally as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
nxss4 said:
I think you'll be fine, as the data on your internal memory should be encypted, which is enabled by default!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Suppose i encrypt my device, i.e., it asks for password everytime before booting...
Q1. Will booting into fastboot or recovery require the password?
Q2. If no, how can i prevent access to fastboot and recovery on an unlocked bootloader?
anuragm13 said:
Suppose i encrypt my device, i.e., it asks for password everytime before booting...
Q1. Will booting into fastboot or recovery require the password?
Q2. If no, how can i prevent access to fastboot and recovery on an unlocked bootloader?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can't, but your data isn't accessible without the password
bartito said:
You can't, but your data isn't accessible without the password
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But one can flash custom recovery from fastboot and subsequently use it to flash custom roms.
Am i right?
anuragm13 said:
But one can flash custom recovery from fastboot and subsequently use it to flash custom roms.
Am i right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you can flash any recovery and any rom, but phone data can't be accessible if you don't have the password.
To use the device you need to know the password or do a data format
Isn't your phone technically always safe as long as you keep it encrypt it?
Only thing a thief could do would be a reset in both cases, isn't it?

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