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Hi,
This thread is to provide comparison and feedback exclusively from those that have both an iPhone 3G or later and an HD2, as is my case.
So here's my first go at comparing a 3G vs. HD2:
First and foremost: Handability and visual - which one is really usable
HD2 of course has a bigger screen, easier to read for those over 40 and more fancy, more show-off than a 3G, however:
- 3G easier to hold in the hand
- 3G can be operated one-handed. nearly impossible with HD2 due to its size
- HD2 easier to drop on the floor - it's not very handy, even for big hands
- Lets face it: Apple User interface is light-years ahead. 3G has an A LOT more intuitive, and more ergonomic user interface compared to the HD2: just compare how SMS threads are managed on the iPhone compared to the 3G - despite WM65, HD2 is pre-historic compared to the iphone. Same for email, browsing, ....
- The 3G touchscreen has a more responsive screen. On the HD2 sometimes you have to repeat swipe, pinch. Never happens on the 3G. The HD2 screen is nice and big, but close to the boarders, so you get many unwanted keypresses depending on how you hold it. Pinch zoom not native to WM65. Look at how iPhone handles the internet browser and compare with Explorer and Opera on the HD2 -WM65 is lagging behind the iPhone. (You do get pinch zoom on video in HD2, but who really needs that?)
- what about copy and paste on HD2? Pre-historic and not finger-friendly on WM65 - check out the cool new copy-paste feature on the iPhone latest firmware.
- HD2 keypad impossible to type with - I get one error per word; Apple 3G since the 3.1 firmware is more usable (try turning of the click sound - you will be surprised how fast you can go without error)
- in car handling while driving - you have to really pull over with the HD2, where the iPhone only requires a swipe and a keypress.
Conclusion: clear win to Apple on ergonomics and usability. WM65 suffers from its heritage. Unless MS decides to develope a new mobile OS from scratch, the game is lost against Apple. And there's a lot more non-tech people buying smartphones than there are WM geeks. MS - wake up !!!
Next, what you can do with it: the apps: the app store speaks for itself
Ever since I bought the HD2 3 weeks ago, the number of available apps in MS marketplace has not changed: a total of 60 apps only (!!!!!!!!!!) - compared to how many tens of thousands for the iPhone (!!!!!!!!!) including superbe games that beat a Nintendo DS. On WM65, there's nearly nothing. Now that I realized this after buying the HD2, I would not have bought it in the first place, because in the end, that is what counts for a smart phone. What good is a smart phone if you have no apps to do anything with it, no matter how great the smartphone looks? Here again, MS beware and wake up !!!
Proprietary vs. open platform: who's really open and who is not?
The long standing critique on the iPhone is that it was a closed, proprietary platform compared to WM65. Well, given the app note above, think twice. Even without jailbraking the iPhone you get a lot better than what you get for an "open" WM65 machine. And if you can't withhold tweaking everything, you can also jailbrake an iPhone and tweak everything on it. No advantage to WM65
Comms
HD2 a lot better. For instance when listening to streaming radio, the iPhone often disconnects / interrupts in the car when reception is more difficult, where the HD2 keeps on reception without interruption on the same route.
GPS functionality
Clear win to HD2, despite using an inferior non-SirfIII GPS chip I believe from Qualcomm. The iPhone GPS in contrast is the worst of the worst of all on the market. I mean even my old HTC P3600 without any quickgps works a lot better than an iPhone. For some reason on the iPhone the position is always wrong, the signal lost every 20 seconds, ....
That said, the HD2 is only good as long as there's Agps available. Traveling to a different country, you lose the AGPS advantage. In place, you will discover the joy of 2minute warm fix times, when you need the quick fix the most (note my official ROM does not have the Quickgps). I never understood why HTC dropped the Sirf III chip after the P3300 model, replacing with the inferior qualcomm chips. If anyone from HTC is reading this: do you know a Sirf IV is out, its cheap, consumes less power, small, and a lot quicker / precise than anything else available for civil use?
Now the GPS apps: None available on MS Marketplace so far. That said the GPS apps are generally better on WM65 - richer functionality (you can add your own POI and have POI warning when approaching) which is not possible on the iPhone.
Other technical and other features
Battery not exchangable in iPHone? who cares? I've had an iPhone for more than a year, using and charging every single day. Performance has not been impacted to date. the HD2 has the same battery charge life approximately as an iPhone
Memory: HD2 only comes with a 2G micro SD card. You need to put another 100 EUR for a 32G micro SD on the table to match iPhone's 32G.
Periferilia:
Did you notice since several months in the electronics and mobile phone stores, all of the periferilia was replaced and more than 90% of it today is exclusive to the iPhone. If you chose something else, tough luck - a lot less chargers, cases, screen protectors, etc. Everything in the shop today is for the iPhone.
My conclusion:
First and formost: the HD2 is a lot better than all other WM65 smart phones.
But, despite that I only have the 3G, not the newer iPhones, and the 3G has a slow processor, I feel the iPhone usability and app availability makes up for some of it. HD2 is a lot faster, and in the end WM65 is good for the disguised computer scientists and geeks like me. But anyone non-computer or IT savvy will feel a lot more comfortable with the iPhone- this is not against HTC, it's the OS the machine runs, WM65 that is at fault, and furthermore, there are currently really very few Apps for the HD2 where you have 10 of thousands for the iphone. The size of the screen, the processor speed, the show-off effect surpasses the iPhone, but app availablity and usability is lagging behind.
Would be interested in your thoughts
[NEW] Camera: HD2 is a lot better than iPhone, and the video is better than my old camcorder
I totally agree with one thing in your post: MS should create a totally new mobile OS from scratch if they want to catch up with the competition. That's the reason why Android, WebOS and the iPhone have so much success, they're all new OS'es, created by new standards instead of the 2000 standards WM has.
Seriously though, How much did Apple pay you to write all this?
You make the HD2 sound like total crap.
erosennin said:
Seriously though, How much did Apple pay you to write all this?
You make the HD2 sound like total crap.
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ok, credit given to you, I revised some of my text. Note also my last comment - the HD2 is A LOT better than any other WM65 smart phone.
That said, did you ever use an iPhone? Do you disagree with any point that I raised in my summary? I have both, and will be happy to discuss further. My comments are focused on usability and usefulness, which I believe are the two most important criteria to consider.
I'd agree with most of what you've written. I also own both the iPhone (3GS) and, now, the HD2.
Loving the screen size on the HD2, but comparing it to the iPhone in almost EVERY other respect, it falls short.
I'm persevering with the HD2 though, as I wanted a change from the iPhone for a while.
But deep down, I'm 99% certain I'll be selling the HD2 long before I think about leaving the iPhone.
The iPhone is so easy to use. The keyboard is a million miles ahead of any other virtual keyboard. The media interface is better than any other I've seen. Battery life is better on my iPhone than on my HD2 (although the HD2 is better than it was). Apps availability is a big plus, even though so many are pointless. I've never liked anything Apple before, but the iPhone is still the phone to beat.
If it wasn't, the media wouldn't still be searching for the "iPhone killer" would they?
I do like my HD2, but realistically, it's not even close to matching my iPhone for everything that I want from a handset.
I never used an iphone, and I don't intend too.
But reading you 90% of your post, you seem totally biased
Really cheap flamewar bait ..
I believe the competition have caught up with Iphone, and for me personally, the only thing that is awesome with iphone is itunes store.
I prefer my HD2 to my old Iphone 3GS any day...not sure what i will say when they bring a new one out though!
Well I had to purchase my HD2 because orange don't yet stock it in the UK but they offered me the Iphone so I borrowed my sisters 3GS for a while and decided against it I think it boils down to what you are used to I already have lots of WM apps which work well there are lots to chose from on WM. You already mention GPS The HD2 is awsome with this a major reason I bought it.
I found the screen much more responsive on the HD2 than on the Iphone where you have to tap things twice sometimes to get them going.
I actually would have prefered the HD2 to be the Iphones size, but there is not that much difference and when you get used to the size other screens seem tiny in comparison.
I found the Iphone interface very boring to use there is no homescreen as such just a grid of apps, there is much more info on the Windows mobile homescreen.Both on Titanium and HTC sense.
I dont know what you mean by dropping the phone both can be dropped.
The camera is better on the HD2 and it has a flash (even taking into account the pink blob)
Another plus was XDA developers and the choice of what you can do with your phone regards cooking different roms. You are basically stuck with the Iphone as is,I probably would have got bored with it very quickly.
I would agree the Iphone is a very good phone especially good for gamers and music fans, etc and has a very slick flowing interface, I would consider the HD2 as a good alternative with a lot of potential for further improvements.
I was tempted by the darkside and I hate it. 3GS going on ebay and im returning to WM, with the HD2 cap in hand.
the-uki said:
ok, credit given to you, I revised some of my text. Note also my last comment - the HD2 is A LOT better than any other WM65 smart phone.
That said, did you ever use an iPhone? Do you disagree with any point that I raised in my summary? I have both, and will be happy to discuss further. My comments are focused on usability and usefulness, which I believe are the two most important criteria to consider.
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I sold my iphone 3GS to fund my Hd2 purchase - no guesses about what position I have on this post - which btw is like the millionth one here in Leo section. Don't miss it one single bit and love my HD2 to bits - everyone has they're personal view....
ITunes and the usual apple - "you will do it this way or else" attitude to the OS are the only things I'm going to say. Stick to the general consumer products fella
You now comparing old Iphone hardware with old Windows Mobile. Boh will be updated in the next 6 months. In my opinion the batlle then really begins.
Biglia05 said:
I totally agree with one thing in your post: MS should create a totally new mobile OS from scratch if they want to catch up with the competition. That's the reason why Android, WebOS and the iPhone have so much success, they're all new OS'es, created by new standards instead of the 2000 standards WM has.
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WM 6.5 was never meant to be earth shattering but a stepping stone to WM 7. I believe this is MS last chance of redemption as they have lost ground for over a decade. Standing by for the real difference of WM7 ! IT's COMING !! Good luck MS! However from a hardware perspective, HD2 Kicks Ass !!
granted for a long time the ifun was tied into an exclusive deal with o2 but that never,imho,excused the exorbitant tarifs that were charged for it then or since and as such I'm proud to say I've given it a wide berth (appart from prodding someone else's just to see what all the fuss was about) and at the end of the day the question you have to ask yourself is: "did you ever see anyone drooling over an iphone?" the first purchase I'll make for a HD2 when I get mine is a wetsuit for it!
Hi the-uki,
I see many of your points, but please tell me:
Why are you looking for WM-Apps only in this crappy shop??? Why are you not a bit more autonomous to find the thousands and thousands WM-Apps in the www by yourself, without the helping of an app-store? I think we are all old enough to help ourselves, so this is not a negative aspect you know
Greets,
Bluecharge
LOL - I read these threads with interest..
I've never owned an iPhone of any kind, probably one of the very few tech gadgets out that I didn't convince myself I needed in my life. Have always been a Nokia phone man and Windows Mobile PDA man, then as of the last few years have been just about coping with a single device running WM6.1 (Diamond) and now 6.5 with the HD2.
I think WM comes up short in many areas, and I'm comparing it to just a normal bog standard Nokia phone here!, but getting there. I can still txt quicker on any basic Nokia; that said at least I can actually txt on a WM phone now!
Anyways, I have two longstanding Vodafone contracts, yet I always seem to buy offline (providers never seem to have what I want). Being slightly more cost conscious at the moment (ish!) I was pleased to be able to get my HD2 on Vodafone. I now have my other contract which is due an upgrade (has been for something like 4 yrs lol) and I'm tempted to get an iPhone just for the hell of it (like the idea of getting a subsidised handsets for a change after all these years!) and give it a go. Have I really been missing out on greatness??! Who knows.. I almost want to not like it )) however equally I might well be won over.
Doubt anyone actually cares. But I'll probably let you know non-the-less!
I have to say people do go on don't they. All this talk of iPhone this HD2 that - surely it all comes down to a myriad of personal preferences.
As far as I am concerned I have owned many, many phones right back to the Motorla MicroTAC, and to be fair we have come a bloody long way since then. All the latest phones are pretty spectacular in one way or another. I just don't get all the whinging,whining and comparing that goes on. I fancied an iPhone as I just felt it was something I needed to own at some point. I intrinsically have nothing against the iPhone - the problem is that the tariffs they are offered on are just not competitive compared to other phone contracts. This is surely a big deciding factor for a lot of people.
To this end we all make our personal choices based on many differing factors, it really serves no purpose arguing over which phone is best.
OneGoodKnock said:
I have to say people do go on don't they. All this talk of iPhone this HD2 that - surely it all comes down to a myriad of personal preferences.
As far as I am concerned I have owned many, many phones right back to the Motorla MicroTAC, and to be fair we have come a bloody long way since then. All the latest phones are pretty spectacular in one way or another. I just don't get all the whinging,whining and comparing that goes on. I fancied an iPhone as I just felt it was something I needed to own at some point. I intrinsically have nothing against the iPhone - the problem is that the tariffs they are offered on are just not competitive compared to other phone contracts. This is surely a big deciding factor for a lot of people.
To this end we all make our personal choices based on many differing factors, it really serves no purpose arguing over which phone is best.
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Here here, what this man said!
I do think the OP intended to write a genuine head-to-head, however I think then seemed to get too involved in the fact that his own personal opinion is with the iPhone and therefore nullified any real level comparative value.
Each to their own and all that..
I live in USA and switched to the iPhone 2 years ago. I had used WM for many years until I switched. I was reluctant, but am now quite used to the device.
When the HD2 surfaced, I was being pulled back to WM, as I HAD to try it out.
SO, as an iPhone user trying to go back to WM, it is hard. I must agree with the OP that the fruit phone is much easier to use, especially with the App Store and iTunes.
I understand that XDA-Dev is WM-centered and I have been a big fan of this site and come for WM info. I used to cook ROMs quite a bit. You can't do that with the iPhone.
I will say that the HD2 is a beautiful phone. The screen is amazing. Having not used WM for a couple years, it has come a long way, thanks in large part to HTC. If I had 3G here on the HD2, I might be more aggressive trying it out. I think I will get a VZ Mifi and try it out more.
So, don't bash! I love both phones, but being an iPhone user, I am spoiled.
the-uki said:
Would be interested in your thoughts
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My thoughts? Simple. You should have gotten an iPhone 3GS instead of a HD2 as you're clearly more suited to that platform. I also agree with what has been said, you're clearly biased towards Apple's device so there was no real comparison in your post.
To start off Iam no stranger to android&to the Iphone/Ipod touch OS(used to own an ipodtouch)
Iam truely brickwalled on deciding if I should switch to a nexus one or a Iphone 3g on tmobile. The reason why I'm still considering an iphone with tmobile is because for 1 my bill will go down a bit&I ll save near 200 on the phones purchase via ebay.
I do love android&the nexus one seems to be what I have been waiting for yet I don't want to be left out in the dark with 500 dollar device. By that I mean it not getting many android software updates. The only thing I can say I don't like about android 100% is the app market( I'm a sucker for games)
But all aside I just don't want to make the wrong choice as ill be starting my college classes in mid march&I need a new phone to see me thru. Currently I'm on a tmo g1&I havehad it for a year now. Its been dropped a few times&has its scares&I have maxed it out to my taste with custom roms.......but the time has come for a new device.
I welcome all help&opinions(esp if you have used both devices)
Firstly, the iPhone won't get 3G on T-Mobile bands.
I myself upgraded from a G1, and while I miss the hardware KB (mostly for SNES) the upgrade is great. All the things the G1 could technically do, this thing can do while running 5 other apps without any lag.
You're pretty much right about the games, but Polarbit has a handful of cool ones in 3d now that run great on the Nexus, and really show it off. Armageddon Squadron (dumb name) is a great WWII flying game where you can even dogfight online (though nobody ever seems to play). However, SNESoid is pretty much crippled right now that took away a lot of the gaming potential.
Eventually, however, it will have Flash 10.1 support, which will unlock a nearly infinite catalog of games online. Granted, Flash games aren't the most engaging.
I've been playing HomeRun Battle 3d on my nexus all day, so hard to put down.
you cant compare a Nexus One and iPhone 3G but u can compare it to a 3GS, i would go for that if u decide to take the iPhone route, the 3Gs is soo much better than the 3G
anyways i was in the same boat, i wanted the 3Gs but I was dying for and Android device, passed on the Nexus one ofr now, and saved 300 bucks and got a myTouch3G instead, i am still gonna in the market for a high powered ANDROID device but this is fine for now. SOmeone just put it to me like iPhone is for Paris Hiltons nowadays, its glamor. All the smart DEVs use the ANDROID platform
nicknowsky said:
you cant compare a Nexus One and iPhone 3G but u can compare it to a 3GS, i would go for that if u decide to take the iPhone route, the 3Gs is soo much better than the 3G
anyways i was in the same boat, i wanted the 3Gs but I was dying for and Android device, passed on the Nexus one ofr now, and saved 300 bucks and got a myTouch3G instead, i am still gonna in the market for a high powered ANDROID device but this is fine for now. SOmeone just put it to me like iPhone is for Paris Hiltons nowadays, its glamor. All the smart DEVs use the ANDROID platform
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Click to collapse
Well said... the glamour bit.
I have 2 phones, a nexus one and an iphone 3gs.
IMHO, the nexus 1 is where the iphone was about a year ago, ie it's missing some functions (although you can add most of those through 3rd party apps and of course, the cooks are always making it better.)
HOWEVER, I love both phones. The thing with the Nexus is that once you root it etc, the possibilities are endless, just like when you jailbreak, but jailbreaking is easier than rooting (again imho) but you really get to know and love your phone once you have to figure out how to do things like fastbooting this and terminal into that etc...
There is one thing to keep in mind, the next phone is always around the corner and there could be a completely new iphone announced soon. Apple is having an event on the 27th of Jan, so maybe hold off on deciding until you hear what Stevy has to say
Either way, I think you'll be happy with either choice you make
Lou
samawil said:
I have 2 phones, a nexus one and an iphone 3gs.
IMHO, the nexus 1 is where the iphone was about a year ago, ie it's missing some functions (although you can add most of those through 3rd party apps and of course, the cooks are always making it better.)
HOWEVER, I love both phones. The thing with the Nexus is that once you root it etc, the possibilities are endless, just like when you jailbreak, but jailbreaking is easier than rooting (again imho) but you really get to know and love your phone once you have to figure out how to do things like fastbooting this and terminal into that etc...
There is one thing to keep in mind, the next phone is always around the corner and there could be a completely new iphone announced soon. Apple is having an event on the 27th of Jan, so maybe hold off on deciding until you hear what Stevy has to say
Either way, I think you'll be happy with either choice you make
Lou
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
jailbreaking an iphone is easier than running 'fastboot oem unlock' ??
Also is it true that if I were to buy a jailbroken unlocked iphone 3g(3gs too exspensive)
&upgrade firmware that I would need a an at&t sim to activate it to rejailbreak then unlock it again?
If true that seals the deal&the nexus will be my choice
nmesisca said:
jailbreaking an iphone is easier than running 'fastboot oem unlock' ??
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To jailbreak my iPhone I pressed a button that said "make it rain". Both a pretty easy, but the Blackra1n app is easier for newbies.
corys00 said:
To jailbreak my iPhone I pressed a button that said "make it rain". Both a pretty easy, but the Blackra1n app is easier for newbies.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's what i meant...download and click
I'm not saying it's better..just easier
L
There is no solution to jailbreak new iPhone 3Gs hardware released after 11/09. Blackrain will jailbreak but when switch phone off and back on again it will be in recovery mode and to get out from that phone need to be connect to the computer and run a blackrain again.
Even rooted N1 can be updated to new firmware without any problem.
Freezey said:
I do love android&the nexus one seems to be what I have been waiting for yet I don't want to be left out in the dark with 500 dollar device. By that I mean it not getting many android software updates. The only thing I can say I don't like about android 100% is the app market( I'm a sucker for games)
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Click to collapse
Why are you so worried about not getting software updates? Android has had quite a few updates for only being out 1 year. If you're worried about updates on the Nexus itself, it's only been out for 2 weeks. . .
If your network is T-Mobile, Nexus One hands down. If your network is AT&T iPhone 3GS hands down. If you mean iPhone 3G and NOT 3GS, I would still go with Nexus One on AT&T.
I'm an ex iphone user and htc hd2 (pants) and the nexus one is by far the best phone i've ever had and i've had loads !!!
Nexus one hands down!
My favorite among many is... ask an iphone owner to take a picture in the dark! Oh nevermind!
But without making this an iphone vs N1 battle... Android is the future
Don't let all the bad publicity about the Nexus sink in... it's all overrated, this is an awesome phone
On the question of if you bought an unlocked 3g, would you have to rejailbreak and unlock it using an att sim to get an update...no
If it is already unlocked, you simply install the latest firmware update VIA the right methods. If it started out properly jailbroken and unlocked, and was produced before week 40, you never have to worry about it locking ever again.
Anyway, a little background. I used to be on these forums CONSTANTLY (had an HTC Touch (Sprint) and HTC HD). I then finally switched to the iPhone (never wanting to before, because of the ridiculously many basic flaws it had).
I am now on an iPhone 3GS 32GB. It honestly is the best phone I have ever used. I run a small business (selling smartphones), and can focus so much more now on getting things done, rather on HOW to get them done so that my phone will work right.
I also sell the Nexus One, and played with a customers a bit before I sold it. It seemed good...but sort of beta. Animations weren't as smooth as I would have liked, the device wasn't as fast as I would have liked, and typing was a NIGHTMARE. Since it doesn't have many common implementations of multitouch, I had to be VERY deliberate and careful when typing in order to get it to work right. On the iPhone, I can type ridiculously fast. Since I am used to the more responsive screen, however, I sucked on the Nexus One. That being said, perhaps if I had gone straight from the Touch HD to the Nexus One, I would have never noticed / cared. Even at that point though, I could never be as fast at typing as I am on the iPhone. I can hammer out emails and texts very quickly, and the correction is superb.
However, you are asking about Nexus One and 3G...I think I would say Nexus One for you. I would say 3GS overall, simply because it truly is the best. But between Nexus One and 3G, go for the Nexus One.
1. You are not coming from an iPhones typing experience.
2. The iPhone 3G honestly is just too slow. I've got 2 friends with the 3G model and I can't stand it. The 3GS is really so much faster.
Also, you do indeed need to take into consideration the fact that you are going to use T-Mobile...for which you would have no 3G on any iPhone. However if you go 3GS, the speed of the device can in many times compensate quite well for this, especially if you have a good strong signal with EDGE (used it today).
Also keep in mind that since you will be forced to use EDGE all the time on an iPhone, the battery life will be excellent (although you could choose to do the same with the Nexus One of course - but probably wouldn't).
Another thing, the iPhone is kind of tested - tried and true. All the apps are made for the same screen and res, the same platform, there has only been 3 very careful and slow implementations of the device, they don't usually slap 100 bells and whistles on - so you can always rely on it - ALWAYS.
Also, I do have my iPhone jailbroken, and have taken care of the few faults Apple left, and added a bunch of awesome features.
I'm also told by my suppliers that I should have access to the next gen iPhone sometime soon so...perhaps you should indeed wait as has been mentioned, at a minimum I'd wait until that Apple conference dealyo on the 27th.
But really, I just can't say enough how converted I am. I also installed OS X on my PC and never think about Windows (even Win 7). Apple products really are just SO SOLID and dependable. And fast. It's awesome.
Don't forget it also depends what you want it for. If you want to tinker with it and get into it, a Nexus One is probably again your best choice. If you want an awesome full featured fast smartphone to get things done very efficiently and completely every single time reliably, I'd say 3GS.
Wow. This was the first post I've made on here since I got my iPhone. Truly though, it has been my best phone experience ever, and I have tinkered with quite a few HTC phones for a LOT of time.
I just came back for old times sake.
Anyway, good day to all you xda members! It was good to be back for a bit.
Just a quick FYI, I wholesale and retail all sorts of smartphones (including the Nexus One and factory unlocked (and software unlocked) iPhone 3G and 3GS). So drop me a line or tell a friend if there's interest!
[email protected]
Not going to adress your whole wall-of-text, sorry about that. Just a little note, a 16GB card does NOT cost $100, it's under half of that.
And as a little counterweight: I must say I enjoy Win7 and Android a lot more than OSX and iphone, but that might be just me. Also I'm not a devout follower of any computer software and I will never convert to anything. If I think it's better for my needs, I will use it (having had WM phones, ipods, iphones etc etc). I still use a ipod nano 16GB as my mp3 player because it's small and has a nice screen (although without itunes).
People saying they are converts to computer software/hardware well... too bad for them imo
SBS_ said:
Not going to adress your whole wall-of-text, sorry about that. Just a little note, a 16GB card does NOT cost $100, it's under half of that.
And as a little counterweight: I must say I enjoy Win7 and Android a lot more than OSX and iphone, but that might be just me. Also I'm not a devout follower of any computer software and I will never convert to anything. If I think it's better for my needs, I will use it (having had WM phones, ipods, iphones etc etc). I still use a ipod nano 16GB as my mp3 player because it's small and has a nice screen (although without itunes).
People saying they are converts to computer software/hardware well... too bad for them imo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey, thanks for the input. Would you mind dropping a link to a 16gb card cheaper than that? I have always been surprised they were so expensive, guess I have just been looking in the wrong places.
As for the convert issue...I agree. For example, I was going to drop my iPhone and move to the Nexus One until I tried one out, and discovered that it's 3G will only work with TMobile, and only in the US. What I meant by convert is...right now I have OS X and I have Win 7 ultimate, and I have an iPhone and have had many HTC phones and...In my experience, and for my uses, Apple products have proved time and time again to be vastly superior. But the second the "Nexus Two" comes out and beats the latest iPhone...I'm on board I've really always wanted an Android phone, and really always thought it would conquer. However for the time being, the 3GS 32GB jailbroken has proved the top of the pack for me.
jim256 said:
discovered that it's 3G will only work with TMobile, and only in the US
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Just wanted to address this - the 3G on the nexus will work fine outside the US - some carriers like those in canada dont necissarily use the tmob US frequencies but the whole of europe (on all carriers) and significant parts of the rest of the world does.
human_error said:
Just wanted to address this - the 3G on the nexus will work fine outside the US - some carriers like those in canada dont necissarily use the tmob US frequencies but the whole of europe (on all carriers) and significant parts of the rest of the world does.
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How sure are you about this? From my understanding, even T-Mobile in other countries doesn't use the T-Mobile US 3G frequency. I was under the impression that T-Mobile US alone used their 3G frequency.
Can anyone help us out here?
What is your personal story of choosing the HTC HD2 over a straight Android phone like the MyTouch Slide 3G or the Samsung Vibrant? I was a G1 user but realized that I needed the capacity for programming and hacking my phone easily which Windows Mobile allowed. The huge screen for WinMo was a plus and I knew someday that Android would replace the old OS.
So I signed up for a T-Mobile to get my HD2 a few months ago. And I have a second one now for further testing now.
Hope to hear more good stories of how you got into the HD2.
I have been a WinMo guy forever. I have also been with TMOUSA forever. I didnt plan on changing either. I was stuck in the MS Exchange compatibility lie D thats what I kept telling myself). So last week I got a sweet deal on the HD2. $52 out the door at Walmart with a 2 year renewal . I already had data from my TP2, Dash, MDA, PocketPC, HP6510 (a little history there). It was a no brainer. That how /why I got the HD2.
I also have a coworker who is always touting Android. So I decided to show him how my DEVICE could beat his phone. So I threw on Mattc's 1.6 and was BLOWN AWAY to say the least. I cant believe I waited so long to goto Android. I will never go back to WinMo for daily use. HOWEVER... any device I purchase from here on WILL be able to run both...... Old habits die hard I guess.
My first Windows Mobile phone was unlocked Motorola MPx220 (black limited edition). After that one of course T-Mobile MDA which I got for my brother as well... Phone was great for that time but I regret T-Mobile did not have much to offer at that time. After being bored of resistive screen on MDA and using my nails to select something on the screen, responsiveness got me away from touch-screen phones since there was no almost none capacitive screen phones other than iPhone. I got into reading a review I stumbled on between iPhone and Nokie E71. Weird I know - touchscreen phone vs full keyboard qwerty phone with much smaller screen, etc. I got myself Nokia E71 after I read the review without thinking twice... I used Nokia E71 (gray) for 2 years and got my wife another one, than my brother got it as well (back at Serbia). So, E71 was doing everything just fine; but I wanted more for God knows what reason. I got into researching without any interest whatsoever and got into more capacitive screens and got into rummor mill that T-Mobile is getting HD2. After more reading THAT WAS IT!!!
Android running from SD CARD was just 24k golden coating I put on it ...
I am now full time Froyo 2.2 user on my HD2 and brag about it whoever is asking ... "Oh, is this EVO?" "Oh, is this Droid?" ... NO! It is T-Mobile HD2 that can run Windows Mobile and Android back and forth without any problems!!!
UPDATE: I am running for the past few months Gingerbread Android CM7 (MDJ 2.6) NAND version ROM and it works just perfect for day use. I reset here and there maybe once per month or so but simply it works fine. I am also on 10$ 200MB plan with T-Mobile. Quiet honestly I do not know what the next phone will be for me ...
I got the phone for 2 reasons. One being, that i've always been a WinMo fan, and two, because of the immense power of the phone.
I wasn't bothered about Android at all when I got the HD2 (Plus, when I got my phone, there was no talk of Android coming to the HD2 anyway). Now i've tried Android, i'm loving it - And use it daily.
But, I will always want a phone that I can use WinMo and Android.
As jmmmmm said, old habits die hard !
To experiment, I already have a Nexus One.
Because I had a Dream!
Because A palm reader told me a great man would take on a project. A project that most though was impossible. She for told of the many night this man would stay up picking through the kernal. She saw a penguin on a screen so massive.
This man was Dcordes!
But seriously the screen size and I knew someone like Dcordes could do it.
avoiding the APPLE propaganda.
Well with the rumors of a phone with 1 GHz processor, I was like "This would be my DREAM phone"
So finally got it, thinkin that 1 day we'll have Android on it..!!!
The advantage of this phone over Nexus One, is that we can dual boot WinMO & Android..!!!
As even if we deny it, but WinMO has lotsa apps available that gives it an upper hand..!!!
I mean business apps..!!!
At the end of the day happy to be a proud owner of the HD2..!!!
from years of being a windows mobile fanatic, I decided one day to head off and discover new horizons, I sold my then trusty touch hd for a spangly iphone 3gs, I even sold my psp believing the iphone was all I needed, how wrong I was, I soon became tired of the ever controlling apple, bluetooth headers not working correctly, non apple accessories not compatible, no customisation, grrrr it had to go...
then sold their iphone, for a fully fledged samsung galaxy s, and yes this was quite an amazing device, but for some reason my eye had been on the hd2 for some time, trying to convince myself not to go back to windows mobile, not sure why...so I sold my galaxy s and with the money bought an hd2 and another psp for all my gaming needs so basically back were I started but with a better windows mobile device.
then after getting all comfortable again with my trusty old windows mobile, i thought I would give android a go, thinking there is no way out would run as fast and smooth as on there dedicated samsung device...yet again how wrong I was, android on the hd2 is truly amazing, for me the large screen, brilliant camera with superb flash, the quality of manufacture and huge community following, I now have the perfect device.
It was $48 and I knew I could port Android to it.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Great question: I had planned on posing a similar one myself. I wanted the HD2 a the time of the device announcement. I had a Blackstone (HD) which is a good phone, but IMO, the HD2 knocks its socks off.
I bought the Euro model (I'm a Yank, eh), having it for a mere 4 months and I nearly nearly took got the Sprint EVO. I was hesitant on going the Android route - even after hours of research I was uncomfortable with the platform, comparable services and applications. Sure, tons of free apps, but I wasn't convinced most of them would give me what I wanted.
In March I bought a used T-Mo(USA) phone for a pittance, selling my phone for another pittance, getting 3G in the bargain.
I've been a ROM flashing groupie, so when the Android builds started coming around, I jumped on the gravy-train.
Min-Mo is still my fall back, but I am finding all my needs are met with Android except BT headset for calls.....that's not a major factor unless I start travelling again.
Guess I got carried away, but in a convoluted way, I think I addressed the query.
My brother gave it to me, because he was sick and tired of winmo and wanted an android...
I thought winmo was fine, so I was pretty happy! One month later I called him, asking: "hey bro, still liking your Desire? Ow, and guess what? I'm calling you with Android on your old phone!"
He wasn't all that enthousiatic...I wonder why
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App
The HD2 hardware is second to none for me, big screen and small bezel around it, dedicated buttons.
I really wanted to run Android but when I saw the level of development here on XDA I decided to try winmo and take a risk on it being hacked to run Android later. Now I have both and love it, fantastic!
Winmo with sense & CHT is my preferred interface but android with sense is winning currently, more connected, better apps and more stable.
Unbeatable combo of specs vs price. Wouldn't have bought it if I wasn't sure Android was gonna work for a 100% though, so thanks XDA =)
Originally I had a blackberry curve 8900. To be honest, this device was great for texting and emails and did those things fast and quite well but it just couldn't satisfy my desire to hack and mess with the phone. I wanted android for a long time but I liked the HD2s build quality and hardware the most, much more so than phones like the galaxy s. After looking through the winmo roms on XDA and how much momentum android for HD2 had, I went ahead and ordered an HD2 hoping that one day android and winmo would both be running on the phone flawlessly. I'm really really happy with my purchase and thoroughly enjoying the phone. Given how much progress has been made, I have no doubt that android will be fully ported to the HD2.
FerretAD said:
I got the phone for 2 reasons. One being, that i've always been a WinMo fan, and two, because of the immense power of the phone.
I wasn't bothered about Android at all when I got the HD2 (Plus, when I got my phone, there was no talk of Android coming to the HD2 anyway). Now i've tried Android, i'm loving it - And use it daily.
But, I will always want a phone that I can use WinMo and Android.
As jmmmmm said, old habits die hard !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ditto mate.
Word for word!
I had a G2 Touch (HTC Hero branded for T-Mobile UK) which was a great little phone but had huge data issues with T-Mobile's ropey network.
After a lot of arguing they agreed to replace it with whatever was available at the time, HD2 was the best alternative, personally I love it.
Even better with dual boot
About 2 years ago I left my Nokia N70 for a Samsung F700V and I was amused by the touchscreen and the sliding keyboard but then all the limitations of CroixUI came up and I got pissed very soon.
Then I searched (June 2009) for a smartphone that gave me freedom and possibly with a cool design and a good OS. The finalist was Xperia X1 & HTC Diamond 2.
The iPhone was immediately eliminated due to the O.S. and to the fact that I'm a Power User not a Power Luser.
The Diamond 2 won over the Xperia X1 due to the accelerometer, the wonderfull HTC Sense interface, the awesome design and quickness of Windows Mobile 6.1.
I spend about 7 months with that phone and then I saw the HD2 (Feb 2010).
Bigger, badder, cooler and with a lot of potential.
I decided to sell my Diamond 2 for the HD2 because I enjoyed Windows Mobile and, with the huge community behind it, I was sure that, sooner or later, all the potential of that phone will come up.
And I was right... now we almost got Android and in the future we'll have Windows Phone 7, moreover the HTC HD2 is still the biggest and best smartphone on the marked.
I eliminated from my choices Android phones because NONE OF THEM got the same appeal of the dark giant, the HD2.
So I bet on the right horse and I still don't feel the necessity to change it, even because I don't see a valid successor in the actual and near future market.
I love my HD2, deeply.
What's not to like about the HD2, other than WinMo? I went from my iPhone 3G to the HD2 and handed my other half the iPhone to replace her X1. I thought with all that power WinMo couldn't possibly run bad, I was wrong! Also, the Desire wasn't around at the time so my choices were limited.
I'd had the phone a while before the whole thing with Android came along, I was ready to sell it and get something else, Android did change that, for a while! Until I liked it so much I had to get a native device, so I went out and bagged myself a sim-free, unlocked Desire on 2.2.
When the HD2 is at a stage with Android where I'm not missing out on anything the Desire will go to the other half and I'll use the HD2 as my main phone again.
One thing I did notice, even though my HD2 scores upwards of 1700 on quadrant, my Desire pulls 1400-1500 without clocking, but the Desire being native fly's in comparison to the HD2, which is absolutely not slow by any means.
Summary; No android phones available to me at the time, I didn't know anything about Android either, and the HD2 just looks fantastic, a big fat slab of awesomeness.
Phil
kerman19 said:
What's not to like about the HD2, other than WinMo? I went from my iPhone 3G to the HD2 and handed my other half the iPhone to replace her X1. I thought with all that power WinMo couldn't possibly run bad, I was wrong! Also, the Desire wasn't around at the time so my choices were limited.
I'd had the phone a while before the whole thing with Android came along, I was ready to sell it and get something else, Android did change that, for a while! Until I liked it so much I had to get a native device, so I went out and bagged myself a sim-free, unlocked Desire on 2.2.
When the HD2 is at a stage with Android where I'm not missing out on anything the Desire will go to the other half and I'll use the HD2 as my main phone again.
One thing I did notice, even though my HD2 scores upwards of 1700 on quadrant, my Desire pulls 1400-1500 without clocking, but the Desire being native fly's in comparison to the HD2, which is absolutely not slow by any means.
Summary; No android phones available to me at the time, I didn't know anything about Android either, and the HD2 just looks fantastic, a big fat slab of awesomeness.
Phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
did you mean that desire is much more faster than hd2 android , i don't think so , my friend's desire is the same even slower in some tasks than my hd2 with mattc clocked at same speed
I've posted in Android General here as I reckon it's those of us who have switched OSs who are getting a Second Life(TM) from their HD2s...
Personally, I am finding my phone experience so different from the WinMo days. At that time I was always switching ROMs, always trying to get better use from the phone/solve the glitches, but never quite getting there (altho there is/was fantastic work from the ROM devs here)
But now with Android, I find my experience is great, and glitch-free. I'm still always playing with new ROMs, but only for the excitement of new features rather than to solve annoyances. I've had my HD2 a year and I personally think I could stay with it even another 2 years.
The hardware has been (imo) perfected for the current time (4.3" screen, decent processor, nice form-factor, expandable micro-SD), and all the excitement now is in Google's OS improvements, with perhaps two new iterations of Android planned for this year. Even to the extent that I would be tempted to buy a spare HD2 for future use (as my hardware buttons may be about to give way...)
The only features that could cause me to upgrade are:
- Pico Projector (but as a novelty appealing to my geekiness than anything useful)
- HDMI-out (which again, I think I would get use out of perhaps 4 times a year, and as a novelty the rest of the time)
- Maybe a hardware keyboard a la HD7 Pro, but only if it has Android and was as a free upgrade
But apart from that, here is to an almost perfect hardware phone, now matched by perfect and evolving software. Long live HD2!!
So how long do you think you will stay with the HD2?
well my hd2 felt down several times to the floor and has some scratches at the rubber edges now. further i have the "jitterbug" of the touchscreen since first day (is mostly handable with swype)!
so let me think about your question... i guess i will stick to my hd2 for another year! want to buy a device with a hardware keyboard after that.
I agree with you in many ways smeddy. For me the HD2 is perfect in terms of it's size and layout (personally I do not want a hardware keyboard), the processor is snappy enough, the ability to expand the storage with an sd card is brilliant especially with a2sd+ and such like - for me I would have prefered a 1024TMOUS just for the extra space.
The only thing I can see on the horizon that may tempt me away is the Motorola Atria
For me, the only reason i'd upgrade is for more internal memory, say a 8/16gb device, since i'm feeling threatened by my lack of space. So i guess i'll keep my hd2 for maybe 4 months to a year.
I'll probably be keeping it for another year or so till I am due for re-contract. The phone served me well and its still doing well, probably I will get an andriod tablet if I need to make video call from oversea
will use it till it stops working
Waiting for htc dual core
I'll keep mine until this becomes true
http://www.coolsmartphone.com/2011/01/09/2ghz-motorola-atrix-coming-to-orange-soon/
this year will be the year for Motorola
Holy Shi# that thing is sick. I seen one of the devs talk about that phone on irc. Never knew what it was.
I bought it relatively late ...Still have it for a year now without a scratch!The phone has served me well.The options between OSs,the design/yes i really like it !/the functions,the hardware,the display...It is perfect!It is now a LeoNANDroid and i like it even better!
I like how the little Apple fanboys mistake it for iPhone4,i like how the people at my provider's store look like that when they see im runnin Linux/Android.Maybe the only thing i miss is 720p recording...So basicaly i will run it till it dies,then il buy anotherone if i can^^.The best spent $400 in my life!
I'll keep it until something better comes along that makes it worth upgrading. The Moto Atrix looks nice, hardware list wise, but I'll skip it due to it being Motorola. Other companies will release an equivalent or better.
Going back to a slide-out keyboard is very tempting as well.
Ill keep hold of mine for a bit,maybe wait for the Desire HD to come down in price,see what Htc bring at the MWC in Feb,in the mean time im happy with it
good opening post.
I love my HD2 on Android (wish it was a TMOUS though with the additional on board mem.)
NAND Android rocks and I love the hardware and (now) software on the phone.
Would just like a better camera with a real flash ... 720p recording?
So at the moment nothing on the market matches it.
GG
Late to the party but i have just ordered one, had a Blackstone up until Christmas and can't resist the tweakability and amount of OS's this thing can deliver!
Can see myself owning it for at least 2 years!
I have been using HD2 for little over a year. I have flashed so many roms on it; I lost count a long time ago. However, the screen started freezing right before the Android NAND boot came out. I still flashed NAND on my phone to see it works and it did but without the touch screen.
I send my phone to HTC for repair last week and it is on the way back. I am planning to keep it for at least another year. The only thing I am missing is a front camera for video chatting and the ability to go 4G. I don’t do a lot of video chatting and the 4G is only available at selected location.
I like everything about this phone! The look, the feel, everything…. I don’t have a reason to change the HD2. The support which is available for the phone out there is incredible. When I get bored with a particular style, I flash a new rom! If we get to a point where we use 4G every day, I might change to a 4G phone. Or they have to invent a phone which will make me breakfast, lunch and dinner!
HD2 is definitely a keeper.
How long do you think you will keep your HD2 ?
That's a question that can only be answered by my wife's wallet
Cheers,
/Cacti
onebyside said:
will use it till it stops working
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This.
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App
The Atrix does look interesting. Thanks for he heads-up.
I think "use it until it stops working" is the most concise way of stating it
Johncmolyneux - from Northampon! I've followed your work so much on XDA, and never knew you were from my hometown, well from Wellingborough to be exact
smeddy said:
Johncmolyneux - from Northampon! I've followed your work so much on XDA, and never knew you were from my hometown, well from Wellingborough to be exact
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks man - it's appreciated
I've moved about a bit, but keep ending up back in Northampton. It's a good place, as is Wellingborough. If you ever need any assistance, come round my house Not really
BIGUP The Northants!!!
Well my Hermes is getting a little old and I'm shopping for a new phone. The HD2 seems extremely awesome. I love that I could always fall back to WM6.5 if WP7 and Android don't suit me. It seems this phone is also quite common so with a little patience I should be able to find one at a price I want to pay. The only thing that I'm not crazy about it the lack of a hard keyboard. I see that there is a Toshiba K01/IS02 with a hard keyboard that also has a capacitive screen even though it shipped with WM6.5 but it seems to be a rare and undeveloped phone.
Can anyone tell me if there are any other WM6.5/WP7 phones besides the HD2?
I think no atm,
I too was not keen on no hardware keyboard but ended up getting a T-Mob HD2 because the price was right.
All I can say is typing on screen is far faster than any HTC hardware keyboard I have tried & you can use a mini hardware keyboard via BlueTooth if required.
All in all the lack of hardware keyboard was a step forward for my typing experience ...
For the criteria you are asking HD2 is the best. This is the best dual OS phone out there. And I agree with previous post that screen keyboard is way better. My prevois phone was TyTyn II but I think I like sceen keyboard more than hard keyboard. It just takes a little time to get use to typing on the screen. I am really happy with HD2 and I can not think of the better phone for now that does not cost more than 300 euro and have such features. But the choice is yours. Good luck.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA Premium App
Wait a sec. No video out? What the dip?
evilwise said:
Wait a sec. No video out? What the dip?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Indeed that was a big mistake from HTC ... The flagship model at the time with no video out ! between that & the selected battery capacity some HTC designers & market researchers should of been shot ...
Well I'm not sure about w7 but the HTC touch pro 2 can run Android & w6.5..(a bit laggy though & very outdated) & also has tv out I believe. It's been sometime since I've owed it so I can't remember. I text (up 2) 4000 texts each month & Im coming from the mytouch slide which has a keyboard....I have 2 say I really dont miss it. I will admit it took me a good few days b4 I could text as fast as any of my old phones that had a keyboard.
Personally I would suggest to buy a phone that has good development that way you won't be left in the dark. Going from the tp2 to the mytouch was horrible bc I had a phone that was well developed & then went 2 a phone that was slim pickins 2 mod it.
Sent from my Desire-HTC HD2 using XDA App
The Desire HD is sort of like an upgraded HD2. I hear that a lot of devs are also working on it.
I was just like the OP, really excited that I could fall back on to WM6.5 if I didn't like Android or WP7. Then I moved to Android and never looked back.
I do admit the HD2 is a beastly device, I can't think of any other device that is nearly as hackable... the HD2 runs WM6.5, WP7 and Android all basically as if those were all natively supported.
Still though, it will soon be 2 whole years since the HD2 was announced. I personally had one for 18 months before buying a Galaxy SII. The HD2 looks pretty modern on paper... 4.3" screen, Snapdragon processor... but next to a truly modern phone like the GSII the HD2 looks clearly dated.
I put WP7 on the HD2 but it's not really my cup of tea. I also tried going back to WM6.5 but after a year with Android I found it laughably slow and clunky. So I may end up selling the HD2, though it would be by far the hardest device I've ever parted with.
I don't really know what to tell the OP. The HD2 is a hell of a phone and can run the newest versions of WP7, but when you set it next to a newer, official WP7 device you will see the differences. If you don't already own an HD2 I'd advise getting a WP7 phone, maybe one with a better screen than the HD2 has got... unless you really have a need to still be running WinMo 6.5.
wildfire dipped in honey+chocolate sauce is sweet !!
Love the hd2. Got it for it's support of tzone grandfathered plans on 3g. Wm6.5 is a joke. I could not believe how amazing the phone was after removing that dead weight of an os.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
I am too trying to upgrade my HD2. I am thinking of Nexus one. It seems similar in many ways to HD2, but will have a better battery life. My plan is to: sell HD2 + $50 = Brand new Nexus one.
I was also thinking of Moto Defy...
AntonJart said:
I am too trying to upgrade my HD2. I am thinking of Nexus one. It seems similar in many ways to HD2, but will have a better battery life. My plan is to: sell HD2 + $50 = Brand new Nexus one.
I was also thinking of Moto Defy...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd recommend looking at a Nexus S... a bit plastic, but the Nexus One is long in the tooth now, in terms of hardware.
Wow thanks for all the input today, Guys! I discovered a couple more things today that are going to affect my phone purchase. The first thing is that the T-Mobile branded HD2 does not support the 850 band and I am an AT&T user so not only would I not get 3G on it, but AT&T generally sends me angry emails when I use like a gig of data while "roaming" on T-Mobile's towers.
I doubt I'm going to be able to get an HD2 that does HSDPA850 at a bargain price so I checked out my upgrade options through AT&T. I am considering the following phones which I can get practically free, and here's my thoughts on each from most to least likely to be my next phone.
Samsung Focus - I've played with this phone at the store and it has the nicest looking screen by far of the three AT&T branded WP7 phones. Looks nice (except no video out). Everyone posting ITT has given me some faith in on-capacitive-screen keyboards and I must have had to work on my Hermes a million times because of the slide mechanism damaging, or more often just twisting the ribbon cable. I guess the only doubt that I have in my heart about this phone is that it's a WP7 only phone and I don't believe in WP7 largely because it's not backwards compatible with any of my WM6.5 apps. It boggles my mind that someone asked why I would want WM compatibility after I have spent nine years using it.
HTC Inspire - Seems like a pretty solid Android phone, and one of only two Android phones in the price range I want to pay (although still $50 more than the Focus). Video out only through DLNA
iPhone 3g 8gb - I think we all know everything we need to know about this animal. It's solid, spare parts are plentiful, and it's extensively developed. I just hate Apple. I don't want to have to install iTunes on my computer and so forth. Still may be my choice purely for resale value.
LG Quantum - Ditto most of the Samsung Focus opinion. Noticeably poorer screen (smaller and backlit LCD vs OLED), but does have a hardware keyboard and is the form factor I am accustomed to from the last six years with Wizard and Hermes. I guess Focus or HD2 would just feel like Wallaby in my pocket though.
Samsung Solstice II - Basically what the Quantum is to the Focus, the Solstice is to the Inspire in the Android arena. Smaller, poorer screen in exchange for a slide out keyboard. DLNA compatible though.
Palm Pre Plus and Palm Pixi - Seem like decent phones but a little too cute for me. Plus I have even greater misgivings about Palm's WebOS than I do about WP7.
Sony Ericcson Vivaz - I carried an Ngage for a while switching back and forth with Wallaby. There seemed to be a lot of development for Symbian back then and it was stable. Probably not the thing to discuss on this forum though..
Anyway, hopefully I'm not derailing my own thread too much or getting it off the topic of the section I posted it in but I appreciate all the replies and would love to hear what everyone thinks. Deciding which phone to get can be a real brain drain! And what's up with hardly anything having video out? My friend's Evo has a freakin' HDMI port right on it!