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The Atrix to me is one of the first steps of a mobile computing topic my buddies and I have been debating for about 3 years now. That the phone will become the center of basic personal computing and, if so, how. The laptop and desktop "docks" for the Atrix are early steps in the direction of those arguing the phone will become the central device with simple docks.
This wouldn't replace a hard core gamer's monster system or a CAD workstation. However most people I know use their computer for just 5 things:
1) Internet (browsing and email).
2) Documents (word processing, spreadsheet, and simple photo editing).
3) Multi-media (listening to music and watching videos).
4) Hard copy (print and scan).
5) Simple games (solitaire, sudoku, etc).​Really, that is it!
I lean toward the dock being more powerful and providing the extra horsepower needed for what we know think of as "desktop level performance and graphics" when docked. But really for the 5 tasks listed above I think Atrix class hardware might be able to run those applications already (giving points to those who side with the simple dock solution, sigh).
What do you think?
I agree I long dreamed of such a situation. small dock with extra storage and processing power. mobile phone as a sort of key. pop it in, full desktop OS. take it out. full mobile phone.
kinda exactly like the atrix. but more refined.
vzontini said:
The laptop and desktop "docks" for the Atrix are early steps in the direction of those arguing the phone will become the central device with simple docks.
What do you think?
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I'd have to agree. Even if I don't get the Atrix I am so happy that Motorola came out with the webtop application for the docks. This will push the smartphone industry upward and other manufacturers will have to follow suit with the smartphone becoming the central and only communication device for almost everything.
The laptop dock looks sexy as hell. I loved the macbook air's design but couldn't get myself to buy an overpriced mac with an extra "apple tax" attached to it. The Atrix laptop dock is even thinner and so beautiful its crazy. I'm really hoping that it's priced low ($150 - 200) in order to get people to want to buy the Atrix.
The only thing that I'm not sure of yet is the HDMI mirroring. I know they have a regular dock for the TV but I'm not sure if the phone has actual mirroring. If its not then the emulator gaming gets screwed up and I'll have to pass on this phone
Either way I can't wait to have a phone as my only device for everything. Pure heaven is coming
The Atrix looks cool, dual processor, etc.. But "docks" are a thing of the past, in my opinion. I just want the phone to seamlessly integrate with the cloud. As a matter of fact, I'd just assume when you bought a phone, the only cable you got was an AC adapter, no USB, nothing.
Motorolla locked bootloader coupled with AT&T bloat just makes this phone more of the same.
I've been very disappointed with recent cell phone offerings and that the unlocked/unsubsidized super phone isn't really taking off, and partly thats because we are still supporting the Atrix/G2/etc of the world that are locked down. Again, all nice hardware but "fastboot oem unlock" and unsubsidized is the way to go. Thats why I'm hoping a AT&T Nexus S is released even though I don't care for Samsung and the phone isnt much of an upgrade, I plan on voting with my dollars and not buying something a carrier has mangled..
Yes.
The question is will it be smartphones or tablets?
Many will still opt for the power and versatility of a full option desktop. Simply too far ahead in the power curve and it takes too many gens to shrink that power for portable use. (For now anyways)
Eventually BT/Dlna or perhaps a new wireless method will be available that simply placing your device on a *home* base will initiate the usage as opposed to physical wires. But again we're not just there yet.
Atrix is a huge step towards this and agree with the OP.
Main issue of course will be OS compatibility getting a TV / input methods / monitor /mass storage/ and ideally home controls to communicate seamlessly is proving impossible as every hardware maker wants to use proprietary methods.
Android maintaining momentum is key as Apples approach will always be restricting and MS will never get there heads out of there butts long enough to make something significant happen.
I seriously hope Atrix doesn't price users out of its features. I likely wont get one but I truly want to see it succeed just for this purpose.
I mentioned this in the EVO forum but this is something that excites me. The Atrix is a first step but its still too rough for me to enjoy. What I really want is a integrated experience. I.e. plug in to a TV and Google TV kicks in, plug it into a monitor and a Chrome-esque OS or Android like desktop experience kicks in, or if you plug it into a touch screen the tablet version of Android kicks in. Right now you'll get a probably horrible/crude Linux build to start up. Maybe some enterprising devs will get a better more satisfying distro on the Atrix but I'd still want that integrated experience over that.
This might stir up some folks here but I'd bet good money that Apple (iOS/Apple TV/the iOS-fication of OSX), Microsoft (WP7/Media Center/ARM based Windows 8), or even HP/Palm will do it first. Personally I'd probably opt for a Windows or Apple solution just because of the better professional apps (Adobe CS, etc.) that'll probably be available early on.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
I'm pretty excited about the Atrix personally, but there's one thing that keeps spinning around in my head. I love the little laptop dock, extremely cool. And it uses the phone for everything and it's connection obviously. Then I got to thinking, will AT&T consider this tethering? Quite obviously to us, this isn't tethering at all. BUT!!! I wouldn't put it past AT&T at all to pull this kind of stunt. That would be the one buzzkill for me for this phone. Leave it to them to change the language and say that when you dock, it will consume more bandwidth and therefor be tethering.
AbsoluteDesignz said:
I agree I long dreamed of such a situation. small dock with extra storage and processing power. mobile phone as a sort of key. pop it in, full desktop OS. take it out. full mobile phone.
kinda exactly like the atrix. but more refined.
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I had a dream and vision once; around 10yrs ago; moto atrix is the closest so far... waiting for the release and first person experience...
Sent from my Dell Streak using Tapatalk
crachel said:
I've been very disappointed with recent cell phone offerings and that the unlocked/unsubsidized super phone isn't really taking off, and partly thats because we are still supporting the Atrix/G2/etc of the world that are locked down. Again, all nice hardware but "fastboot oem unlock" and unsubsidized is the way to go.
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Agree 100% with that. Now what if the next Nexus phone is an Atrix type device from Motorola? Now *that* would be a worthy replacement for my N1.
Someone has to take the first steps and with my limited knowledge of the mobile market this appears to be the first step. I agree it lacks refinement but that what technology comes out of the shoot already polished. It takes multiple iterations of real world testing to work out the kinks. People end up doing things the original designers never dreamed of.
I also hope that the Atrix is just the beginning and the concept catches on. My hacker side doesn't want a locked down device. Again my thought is this is just the first step in an evolution of the phone. I think it will be the phone versus the tablet because so many people want something pocketable. IMO the tablet won't be the center because it is just too big.
Only time will tell. Anyway it is pretty exciting.
Actually now that I think about I think I would much rather have a bigger 4.3' screen android phone that I could pair with my foldable bluetooth keyboard as well as HDMI mirroring capabilities to play emulators with a bluetooth wiimote.
Not that the laptop dock isn't sexy as hell, but I'd rather just be able to pair an HID bluetooth keyboard with my bigger screen phone to use as my all in one device...
Now if the Atrix can pair with a HID bluetooth keyboard, has wiimote support, and HDMI mirroring then sweet! but if it's missing any of these 3 things then perhaps the Droid Bionic or LG Optimus 2x???
Is it bad that this phone sexually arouses me? I just hope that this is functional on rogers frequencies because I know other bell phones have before... I don't even expect rogers supposed lte network to work with it as long as the 3g works I'm gravy...
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
crachel said:
... "docks" are a thing of the past, in my opinion. I just want the phone to seamlessly integrate with the cloud. As a matter of fact, I'd just assume when you bought a phone, the only cable you got was an AC adapter, no USB, nothing.
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I couldn't disagree more! "Integrated with the cloud" is a nice-to-have, but what I'd really want is for my phone to integrate with my own way of working. If that means having access to gobs of local storage in addition to (or even instead of) Google's online services, that should be my choice. An optional dock is a perfect companion for me, especially if I would be given a choice of operating system the phone would run when connected to one. Imagine if the next generation super phone ran a flavor of Linux when connected to a dock. We can already run Ubuntu on our Nexus Ones, so this isn't much of a stretch at all. The next wave of dual-core phones should have no trouble at all running a full desktop OS, with all bells and whistles.
crachel said:
Motorolla locked bootloader coupled with AT&T bloat just makes this phone more of the same.
I've been very disappointed with recent cell phone offerings and that the unlocked/unsubsidized super phone isn't really taking off, and partly thats because we are still supporting the Atrix/G2/etc of the world that are locked down. Again, all nice hardware but "fastboot oem unlock" and unsubsidized is the way to go. Thats why I'm hoping a AT&T Nexus S is released even though I don't care for Samsung and the phone isnt much of an upgrade, I plan on voting with my dollars and not buying something a carrier has mangled..
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This I can totally agree with. I paid full price for both my HTC Dream and Nexus One (unlocked and off-contract) and don't regret it for a second. If Nexus S wasn't so "last year" in terms of specs, I'd be all over it. I am currently waiting for a true "next gen" phone like Moto's Atrix to be released as a reference developer phone before I give up my N1.
vzontini said:
This wouldn't replace a hard core gamer's monster system or a CAD workstation.
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Give it a few more quarters and Moore's Law will take care of that. Already Tegra 2 equipped phones can run better games than my 2-year-old desktop machine that was considered top of the line when I put it together.
My provider is using the AWS band. As soon as one of these is available in this band, I'll probably get one.
This is the exact thing I need: 1 device does (nearly) all!
First off, let me say that i'm no fan of Apple and I really can't stand Steve Jobs. Yes, i've bought his products, but I hate being told what to do once I give him my money. I like customization. I like options. Hence, I do not like Steve Jobs.
I was very excited about the Xoom. I checked online every day for information about it since it's announcement. I had very high expectations and, even though the price tag was higher than I wanted to pay, I was the first to buy it at my local Best Buy.
Now, with that being said. I'm coming up on my 14 day return policy and am debating if I should keep it. I am new to this forum and have been reading through all the threads and learned a lot. However, in my learnings, I have also found things that concern me.
To start, let me tell you why I bought it. I had an iPad before and I mainly used it for online browsing around the house. For movies when I go on trips. And I wanted to use the Xoom for all of that, but also as my work and personal organizer. For easy access to business plans and work integration.
Here's where I'm having problems. If these are things that I should expect to be fixed with updates over time, then great. If not, then I'll have to find another option.
1) The Tegra Processor. I read on here that the Tegra Processor is what is preventing the Xoom from playing my divx movies. Now, I have gotten them to work on RockPlayer. But it has that watermark in the top left hand corner and my status bar at the bottom of the xoom never fades out. Also, and this is the biggest problem, the quality doesn't look good. It looks like their is a subtle light grid in the background. Almost like the original LCD's you saw in airports back in the day. When I first heard about the Tegra issues, I was just going to return the Xoom and get another Honeycomb tablet, but then I saw that all of the Android Tablets will have one.
2) The Browser. I did the trips where you go into debug mode and tell the Xoom to view all webpages in Desktop mode, but there are still a few sites that will only show me the mobile mode. Also, I like to have my bookmarks sorted by the order in which I visit them, yet the Xoom seems to randomly organize them for me. Kinda annoying.
3) Accessories. The only thing that I loved about my iPad was not the unit, but the Apple portfolio case. The motorola porfotlio case is just bulky, scratches the unit, and the latch is loose at best. I've found some nice leather cases online, but none that fold over and cover the screen. Yes, I have a screen protector. But, even those I can't find a good one with anti-glare.
4) eMail. I use exchange and apparently my work email is one of the ones that won't work on the xoom. I had to get Roadsync, which is okay, but I just prefer to use the default, integrated email/contacts/calendar programs. My EVO is perfect for this.
5) Widgets. Seriously, what's the deal with having cell phone sized widgets on a 10.1" screen. LauncherPro is nice, but still has custom icons like it's a phone, which I find to be in the way.
I know that most of these things seem small. But when you drop $800 on a device because you expect atleast the same functionality as your smaller cell phone, you come to have higher standards. I knew about Flash and the SD card issue going in, but the rest is bothersome. I know i'm an early adapter and with that comes quirks.
In any case, you all are 1000x smarter than me with this thing. I will take whatever advice you have.
1. Touchdown for tablets is great for email.
2. Some sites might not have updated their pages yet.
3. Apple always gets the third party love but more and more products are coming online everyday check Amazon
4. Being this is Google's flagship devise you have to believe this will be supported with updates and the file types should change
OK, first off, I agree with alot of what you have said, your right the software is a bit buggy at this time, again at this time. What you have to consider is that that this is an android device, and by that I mean it does not have all the overage that alot of companies put out on top of the overall software that make it look nice and neat, to include custom apps and infrastructure, but this also means that it is much easier to update. Half the time lost between when an actual Android update comes out and the time it takes for your device to get that update is due to all the crap that the company puts on top of the original Android infrastructure.
Give it a bit of time and I am sure that most of your problems can be worked out to you satisfaction due to them being software and not hardware problems.
Also take into account that since Motorola chose to use this clean interface it makes it much easier to modify by the hacking community , which is definitely something that an iPad cannot due.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
virgil1528 said:
1) The Tegra Processor. I read on here that the Tegra Processor is what is preventing the Xoom from playing my divx movies.
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Any CPU/GPU can play video so long as it supports the right codecs. Have you tried transcoding to a supported codec?
xlGmanlx said:
1. Touchdown for tablets is great for email.
2. Some sites might not have updated their pages yet.
3. Apple always gets the third party love but more and more products are coming online everyday check Amazon
4. Being this is Google's flagship devise you have to believe this will be supported with updates and the file types should change
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Click to collapse
Well said.
+1 for Touchdown. It is fantastic for exchange, I use it on both my Evo and Xoom.
If this wasn't a Google Experience device, I'd say your complaints would carry more weight.
However, Google has always done a good job of keeping their GE devices updated and at the forefront.
This device only just came out, I'm fairly sure they will get things handled fairly quickly.
As far as the apps/widgets go. This is still a new device and platform. All android tablets are going to suffer from the same right now. However...again... this issue is largely due to the limited time the device/platform has been available. Within a few weeks...I'm sure we'll see a lot more apps/widgets (even the ipad had limited selection out right). Just think of what it'll be like in a couple of weeks/months with more custom apps/roms/kernels etc...
I had buyers remorse for the first evening...not for any particular reason...and now I can't put it down. Not to mention my wife (who has an iPad), won't shut-up about when she is getting her Xoom
So I would say hang on to it, but that's just me. Do what makes you happy
I've come to the decision that I'll be taking mine back on the 13th day.
I've tried to really give it love and get use out of it, but tablets just don't really fill any niche except "web browsing on the couch".
I'm a sysadmin by day, and although I've carried the Xoom with me every time I step away from my desk, it just hasn't served a single purpose on the job. I had imagined it would be neat to dial into servers using RDP, but the interface is just horrible. I'm much better off just dialing into the server in question at any desk I'm in front of. I'm never more than 8-12 feet from a desktop machine, so there goes that.
Pulse news reader is basically the killer app, but is hardly worth 1000 (799 + tax + extra charger + 129 protection plan against drops for 1yr + case).
Motorola certainly hasn't won me over on the price especially considering I prepaid for it on the first day I could (at two different best buys just to cover bases), and then people who *DIDN'T* do that had a chance at 200 dollars off that was honored in the end. Ridiculous.
I had intended to pick up android development for tablets eventually, but I can hold off and stick with honing my Python until these come way down in price or offer some more functionality.
That's too bad, this has taken over as my laptop and let's me have a mobile office so to speak
For RDP I use Remote RDP light and it works credibly, but if your looking for true RDP functionality then you have to have a mouse and keyboard, and guess what, you bought a tablet with a touch screen interface, you can buy a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse if you want, but that just means more devices to carry around. A tablet, any tablet, will not be the proper interface for RDP, it can't, it is not a PC with all the perifials. A tablet, as far as RDP is concerned, is a device to do what you have to do when a PC is not around and a cell phone is impractical. As a network administrator I can do some of the emergency things that I need to accomplish while out on the town with my tablet, reading a book, surfing the web, commenting on a blog, watching a movie, all without lugging a laptop.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
Yeah, unless you wanted to leave the mouse and just use the tablet as a touch screen with a keyboard your better off with a laptop. But like you said in a pinch its tough too beat
richardjr said:
For RDP I use Remote RDP light and it works credibly, but if your looking for true RDP functionality then you have to have a mouse and keyboard, and guess what, you bought a tablet with a touch screen interface, you can buy a Bluetooth keyboard and mouse if you want, but that just means more devices to carry around. A tablet, any tablet, will not be the proper interface for RDP, it can't, it is not a PC with all the perifials. A tablet, as far as RDP is concerned, is a device to do what you have to do when a PC is not around and a cell phone is impractical. As a network administrator I can do some of the emergency things that I need to accomplish while out on the town with my tablet, reading a book, surfing the web, commenting on a blog, watching a movie, all without lugging a laptop.
Sent from my Xoom using XDA Premium App
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Keep the tab. U will love it in 6 months when everything is revamped
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
Usmc7356 said:
Keep the tab. U will love it in 6 months when everything is revamped
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
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I don't imagine I'll walk away and never look back, but now I know what they're good for (and not good for) and when the price wars drive these down to 400ish I'll scoop one up again. : /
Not all tablets are create equal, and sometimes it takes having one first hand to validate all the information out there and how it applies to your situation
ixobelle said:
I don't imagine I'll walk away and never look back, but now I know what they're good for (and not good for) and when the price wars drive these down to 400ish I'll scoop one up again. : /
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Click to collapse
Return your Xoom and buy it in 6 months for cheaper price
Or probably there will be a new kind of better Honeycomb tablet at that time.
Usmc7356 said:
Keep the tab. U will love it in 6 months when everything is revamped
Sent from my Xoom using XDA App
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codeman05 said:
Well said.
+1 for Touchdown. It is fantastic for exchange, I use it on both my Evo and Xoom.
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I downloaded the free version of Touchdown this morning after reading this thread. Could you explain to me why it is so great? I haven't had time to use it extensively but maybe you can quickly list some advantages over the stock mail client?
Thanks!
I understand your frustration and you ultimately need to do what makes you feel most comfortable. Most of your issues are software related and you know things can only get better with updates. Google has a lot riding on Honeycomb so I expect updates to come fast and often.
1) The Tegra Processor - Seems like your issue is not with the Tegra but with how the codecs handle Divx. Software update could fix this but also developers can do wonders.
2) The Browser - Software update again. The browser is a great starting point and, with some minor tweaks, will be fantastic.
3) Accessories - As more Xooms sell, more 3rd parties will have a business case to make accessories for it. I'm thinking that when the Xoom wifi and Xoom for Europe are released (indications say that will happen at the same time) then we'll see a flood of new 3rd party goodies.
4) eMail - Software update. ALTHOUGH, I'm not 100% sure this is a priority for Google. People complain that they wish the AOSP phones went a step further with their Exchange implementations. Still, the chances are you'll be ok moving forward.
5) Widgets - This is a microcosm of the entire app market right now for Honeycomb. Devs need to start updating their apps with Tablets in mind. Again, more people owning Honeycomb, more reasons for devs to get on it.
The point I'm trying to make is the only way for the Xoom to go is up. As more people buy, more attention the aftermarket will pay to it. If previous Android versions are any indication (and they are,) this is a snowball effect. It'll just get bigger and bigger.
As to the RDP: I use the XtraLogic Remote Desktop app and it works wonderfully, completed designed around the touch interface.
Between Remote Desktop and ConnectBot, I've found a million uses for this as a sysadmin. I don't know how you haven't found a single use for it.
Ok I have no desire to run windows 7 mobile here, but I do need the desktop operating system. I really still need windows for various real estate apps that are only available for windows. So does anyone know of an emulator for windows that will run on any android device, honeycomb or gingerbread?
It'd be nice.. I need windows to run Ragnarok Online.
...but more to the point, to emulate something, you'd need something with massively stronger hardware, right?
Windows wont run on arm cpus and there arwnt ant android virtualization apps that i know of. Maybe once we get linux on here you could install virtualbox so you can run windows that way lol
Your best bet would be to set up remote desktop/vnc
Besides remote desktop and vnc, I think you would been better off with a Windows laptop.
Sent from my Fascinate with MIUI Gingerbread
TheSonicEmerald said:
Besides remote desktop and vnc, I think you would been better off with a Windows laptop.
Sent from my Fascinate with MIUI Gingerbread
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Ugh, that was exactly what I was trying to avoid. I think windows laptops are so overpriced compared to android tablets.
TheSonicEmerald said:
Besides remote desktop and vnc, I think you would been better off with a Windows laptop
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Correct, because even if we would have Virtualbox available, we wouldn't have enough RAM.
If a small Windows 7 machine is needed, I would recommend the Asus 1201L, which I bought for my sweetheart. It has HD Ready resolution and comes with Win7 Home instead of the horrible Starter Edition.
It came with 1 GB RAM and was horribly slow, but after upgrading to 3 GB even Photoshop CS3 runs fine ... I wouldn't install current 3D games though
EyeAndroid said:
I think windows laptops are so overpriced compared to android tablets.
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The above mentioned 1201L including RAM upgrade is cheaper than the Transformer and MUCH more powerfull
EyeAndroid said:
Ugh, that was exactly what I was trying to avoid. I think windows laptops are so overpriced compared to android tablets.
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Go for a netbook then:
ASUS Transformer 16GB ~$500AUD
ASUS Eee PC you can easily find ~$300AUD+
Plus, there are 14" or so laptops for under $500AUD. I'm sure it'd be similar in the States.
But at OP: If you really wanted to run Windows 7 apps, a honeycombe tablet isn't really a very good option... Your best bet, if you don't want to VNC, would be to install Ubuntu and run Windows apps under Wine on your TF (see the developement thread for instructions).
Until Windows 8 ARM comes out, there's not much of a possibility of running Windows 7 on your tablet (unless you get one of those horrid x86 tablets...).
Well what I meant was windows tablets over android tablets. I was looking at a butt ugly, resource hog, underpowered windows tablet today and it was like $999. Almost $1000! Windows has got to be kidding me! And the touch screen experience was a joke! It was all over the place, inaccurate, and slow!
I've definitely got to look into getting that unbuntu that runs windows apps. That's all I wanted to do! Could care less if its windows running it or not, just as long as it works!
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
EyeAndroid said:
Well what I meant was windows tablets over android tablets.
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People interested in Windows tablets should wait until next year, when a tablet optimized Windows 8 is available.
Current tablet hardware is to weak for Win7 !!!
EyeAndroid said:
I've definitely got to look into getting that unbuntu that runs windows apps.
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Click to collapse
Even if it's possible to boot the TF with Ubuntu, I doubt, that the Wine experience would be great with only 1GB RAM.
EyeAndroid said:
Well what I meant was windows tablets over android tablets. I was looking at a butt ugly, resource hog, underpowered windows tablet today and it was like $999. Almost $1000! Windows has got to be kidding me! And the touch screen experience was a joke! It was all over the place, inaccurate, and slow!
I've definitely got to look into getting that unbuntu that runs windows apps. That's all I wanted to do! Could care less if its windows running it or not, just as long as it works!
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
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Heheh... I know what you mean about the current Windows tablets
Anyway, yeah about Wine under Ubuntu: Wine isn't a perfect application. It doesn't enable you to run all Windows apps under Linux, but it does run quite a few usefull ones (Office is pretty much perfect in my past experience, along with quite a few games).
But yeah, as Aymara said, not too sure how the Wine experience would be on a tablet. Never really used it with this kind of hardware... very big newbie at ARM Linux, but you never know... it could run okay. Haven't tried yet.
Ok then. Well, I've never really tried a remote desktop app. Do they work well? Or are they glitchy and unusuable?
Which one would everyone recommend as a good option? Preferably something free and reliable, haha if those 2 can be in the same sentence here.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
There's already one bundled with your Transformer. On your PC, head on over to http://www.splashtop.com/remote/browser/download?from=product and install that product. Then on your Transformer, open the "My Cloud" app (I think that's the name), and there's a remote control tab there. If you're connected to the same wifi network as your computer, it should automatically find your computer and allow you to connect.
You could get the cheapest windows laptop that can run well, and then get bluestacks to run android apps on windows. It's kind of the reverse of what you're trying to do, but it'd kill two birds with one stone
http://www.bluestacks.com/
Why Wine? Ram aside it's for x86 only... and if it did emulate that architecture the speed would be horrible, it's not just cool to virtualize instead of emulating, there is an impressive performance difference.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using Tapatalk
Microsoft announced Windows 8 tablet a week or so ago. You might want to see how that turns out. It's suppose to run all windows apps.
I think you're all still forgetting 1 major thing...all the windows apps are written for x86....what makes you think that even with Wine, you could run an x86 program? You'd be emulating the Windows environment with an ARM cpu, but you wouldn't be emulating the machine code for x86. You'd probably still need some kind of emulator to make that work. You'd still have to emulate x86 in some way shape or form. Honestly, I've looked into Windows, and there are some decent ports (look up QEMU, the russians managed to get a good thing working with Win95 there, but it doesn't work well on the Transformer) but it's really just not worth it. It's a gimmick and nothing more.
To the OP, if you really want a Windows tablet, check out the new MSI Wind 110W. Windows 7 tablet, 4gb of ram, 32 gb ssd, $599 (USD). It's probably the closest thing to what you will want.
darkhawkff said:
I think you're all still forgetting 1 major thing...all the windows apps are written for x86....what makes you think that even with Wine, you could run an x86 program? You'd be emulating the Windows environment with an ARM cpu, but you wouldn't be emulating the machine code for x86. You'd probably still need some kind of emulator to make that work. You'd still have to emulate x86 in some way shape or form. Honestly, I've looked into Windows, and there are some decent ports (look up QEMU, the russians managed to get a good thing working with Win95 there, but it doesn't work well on the Transformer) but it's really just not worth it. It's a gimmick and nothing more.
To the OP, if you really want a Windows tablet, check out the new MSI Wind 110W. Windows 7 tablet, 4gb of ram, 32 gb ssd, $599 (USD). It's probably the closest thing to what you will want.
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Take a read here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Transmeta_Crusoe
EyeAndroid said:
Ok then. Well, I've never really tried a remote desktop app. Do they work well? Or are they glitchy and unusuable?
Which one would everyone recommend as a good option? Preferably something free and reliable, haha if those 2 can be in the same sentence here.
Sent from my HTC Sensation 4G using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use androidVNC and Logmein with my TF connecting to workstations and servers at work quite well actually. Much better than my DroidX phone and HP 2140 netbook.
Logmein for Android is pricey but androidVNC is free if I recall correctly.
Hi (sorry for length of the post!),
I am on the verge of getting new tablet.
I have good, old iPad 1 but unfortunately it is more toy than tool.
I have decided that device like Transformer (hybrid tablet/laptop) would be perfect for what I do. Till few days ago I was all set to wait for such a device with Win8 on-board... but now I am not so sure anymore.
Perhaps you will be able to help me make a good choice.
Currently during day I use at least two PC's with Win7 (and Windows Live services) + Google Chrome and iPad.
As much as I like iPad I hate that it can not sync (in full) like two PC's and especially Chrome (not to mention the lack of keyboard).
Because as I wrote I use Live services I was thinking that by the end of the year I should get a Windows Phone device (few of the things I need to know about WP are here, can you help? : http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1643996), Win8 for desktop and tablet with Win8 onboard.
From what I read Win8 will be much more "closed" when compared to prev. vers of Windows.
Questions are:
1. Will both x86 and ARM version force user to use only MS app store (no more free, unrestricted download from the internet like today? - can it really be true???)
2. Will Win8 have geo-restrictions like currently Windows Phone (got your Live ID assigned to USA -> than you can not get any software from App Store UK. Even iOS is less problematic here).
3. Flash support? Got myself nice VPN... at the moment Hulu works perfectly on Win7 and via Splashtop on my iPad. What about Windows 8?
4. As I wrote I use Google Chrome as a browser. It is quick, it syncs in a very good way, etc. I can not get it for iOS (one of the reasons to drop the iOS)... I can have it on Android tablet (although I am not sure about sync capabilities) but I was hoping I will be able to get the proper, full Chrome for my Win8 desktop and tablet.
5. VPN support on Windows8? Any? Will I be able to access Netflix (as I do now) ob both Win8 desktop and Win8 tablet.
6. Do you think tablet with Win8 will differ in a way system is open (I am not sure if I use correct words for that) between x86 and ARM ver? I do understand that if I will get ARM device all software I will get will have to be "wrote" specifically for ARM and opposite... (unless x86 will have no problem in emulating ARM as it will be more powerful platform).
7. In another words... is it worth to wait for Windows 8 on tablet or I will do most of the stuff I want on Android ICS device?
All insights are welcome!
Sry, didn't have the time to answer all of your questions but hopefully some parts will be clearer in some minutes ^^
1.) no, x86 will work just like a win7 pc nowadays. Not quite sure, but ARM will be restricted to the new marketplace/store (correct me if I'm wrong)
2.) Don't know for sure, but I think it will connect your Live Accout (in W8 called Microsoft Account) will have a connection to your location, but just for the store - not for downloaded applications.
3.) On x86 (tablets) I don't see any problems in using flash. ARM may not be having flash at release, but I think it'll come fast.
4.) If Google is willing to release Chrome for Windows 8 RT (the ARM version), you will be able to install it on all your W8 devices. But you could buy a x86 tablet and the desktop version of Chrome will run.
So, have to go...
Some last words: Tablets with x86 are just like a desktop pc for win7 with a touchscreen, a new look and feel and in one little case
galtom said:
1. Will both x86 and ARM version force user to use only MS app store (no more free, unrestricted download from the internet like today? - can it really be true???)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Metro apps are restricted, and the ARM version primarily only supports METRO apps. So an ARM version will force you unless you: Have a developer account, Are on a Domain, or Use an items signed by a trusted cert provider and make some registry settings.
x86 has the same restrictions on METRO apps, but can run any x86 item (all existing windows applications) without restriction.
galtom said:
2. Will Win8 have geo-restrictions like currently Windows Phone (got your Live ID assigned to USA -> than you can not get any software from App Store UK. Even iOS is less problematic here).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Likely yes. You would need to use a proxy to access other stores.
galtom said:
3. Flash support? Got myself nice VPN... at the moment Hulu works perfectly on Win7 and via Splashtop on my iPad. What about Windows 8?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 IE10 yes, I use Hulu on my 8 device right now. Metro IE10 will not support plugins (no flash, silverlight, or active x). You will need an 'app', or a site supporting HTML5 for IE10 to work.
galtom said:
4. As I wrote I use Google Chrome as a browser. It is quick, it syncs in a very good way, etc. I can not get it for iOS (one of the reasons to drop the iOS)... I can have it on Android tablet (although I am not sure about sync capabilities) but I was hoping I will be able to get the proper, full Chrome for my Win8 desktop and tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It works fine on an x86 tablet. It will be up to Google on whether or not they provide a Metro version. At this time there should be no restriction in place to prevent them from doing so if they desire to.
galtom said:
5. VPN support on Windows8? Any? Will I be able to access Netflix (as I do now) ob both Win8 desktop and Win8 tablet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 yes. Metro requires an App. I use this today on Windows 8.
galtom said:
6. Do you think tablet with Win8 will differ in a way system is open (I am not sure if I use correct words for that) between x86 and ARM ver? I do understand that if I will get ARM device all software I will get will have to be "wrote" specifically for ARM and opposite... (unless x86 will have no problem in emulating ARM as it will be more powerful platform).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
x86 is completely open. ARM is restricted to things that install on ARM, and in most cases to things that are acquired through the METRO store (except for the exceptions listed in item 1
galtom said:
7. In another words... is it worth to wait for Windows 8 on tablet or I will do most of the stuff I want on Android ICS device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are going to buy a convertible windows 8 tablet, so it can be a laptop & a tablet, or if you are going to buy an x86 tablet, I would consider waiting for a windows 8 compatible device (expect sometime late summer / early fall.)
If you are going to buy a Win RT tablet, it is up to you, but I would probably buy a 200-300 android tablet, and then sell it and buy a windows one if/when it becomes a compelling device for you.
most of your questions have been answered, but im going to add a question (for you) an answer it
Should I buy a tablet now?
No, is the answer.
MS and its hardware partners have made some very interesting gains in the touch technology, not to mention Intels gains in performance / low watt CPUs.
if you buy now you will be missing out on some great tech especially around touch screens so it really would be a bit daft to buy just now, you also run the risk of it not supporting Win 8 completely as well. Seriously, wait it out until Win 8 comes, if you must get an older current gen device (perhaps price constrained?) then it will be cheaper then too
First of all thank you all for your time (and answers).
Since (as usual) answers to questions raise new questions... we... here we go
hanswurst24 said:
1.) no, x86 will work just like a win7 pc nowadays. Not quite sure, but ARM will be restricted to the new marketplace/store (correct me if I'm wrong)
2.) Don't know for sure, but I think it will connect your Live Accout (in W8 called Microsoft Account) will have a connection to your location, but just for the store - not for downloaded applications.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. I am not so sure... and I think even for MS "all this" might be a problem.
On one hand they should not change "philosophy" of Windows because no one would swap Win7 to Win8 if they would have to buy all software form 1 (or few) stores only).
On the other hand Windows Phone is showing the way they want to/would like to go (which company would not want to make extra cash on apps the way Apple, Google and Amazon are doing??? - to find balance will not be easy).
All this shows (in my opinion) another problem - system fragmentation. Only iOS is safe as Apple has full control over system and devices (but THANK GOD - is not that stubborn on geo/market restrictions as Google or Ms).
If you remember how confusing for customers it was with Vista and Win7 versions imagine what will happen now?
To be honest (if those versions RT and x86) will differ so much in terms of practicability, options, openness, functions of hardware I cant imagine how everything will be introduced, market and advertised in order for "Mr Average Joe" to comprehend and not run back next day to the shop with complaints - about system, software, compatibility, etc...
Looks like a pure nightmare and I think this is the reason (they do not know what to do exactly with all this mess) we have so little information on how it all is going to work and c0-work with each other :-(
2). You see... as far as I know if I would buy Windows Phone (or RT Win8 tablet - by the end of the year) I will be limited to apps available only in my location. If Live ID is assigned to UK than forget (even free!) apps for US market (and others). In my case it is a disaster... For my pleasure and entertainment I use apps (on iOS and Android [if I can find them - it is way more difficult than on iOS] from UK, US and Poland.
Installing Netflix or BBC iPlayer on a dive form other parts of the world on iOS is very simple and does not require any hacking/rooting/jaibrakes/etc/.
On Android one has to know how to root the device and than simply search the net... not alwys finding what he/she wants.
On Windows Phone if you create new Live ID (like on iOS), switching those equals HARD RESET of the device.
If that will be the case with Win8 RT... that is a very bad news! Even if x86 ver will have less restrisctions those news will be bad for ARM manufacturers as they will get like "handicapped" system when compared to x86... - would you be happy about it if you were Nvidia or Qualcomm?
hanswurst24 said:
3.) On x86 (tablets) I don't see any problems in using flash. ARM may not be having flash at release, but I think it'll come fast.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Maybe it will, maybe it will not... question are:
- will it at all?
- how difficult it will be to install (root? bootloader? other restrictions? unauthorized software when compared to what your Live ID has bought from the shop?)
- how many AVERAGE people will want to go into all this mess?
michiganenginerd said:
Metro apps are restricted, and the ARM version primarily only supports METRO apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So... if there will DESKTOP mode on Win8 RT don't you think it will limit its general appeal. If it will be so restricted, without desktop mode... why would you want it over Android?
michiganenginerd said:
x86 has the same restrictions on METRO apps, but can run any x86 item (all existing windows applications) without restriction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if you are right... this move from MS would mean that hardly anyone will buy ARM version of the system -> ARM devices with Win8 will not sell. If that would be the case what would be the point for ARM ver of Win8 in first place if no sane manufacturer would invest money to produce devices that can not compete with x86 devices because of system they have. Unless they are very, VERY cheap (looking at cost of Android devices is not making me hopeful in this matter) or if people do not much care for the system but for batt. life - again why would you want Win8 over Android or (well established) iOS. It is worth to remember that it will be even more difficult to win customers who already own Android or iOS device - there is a good chance that they have spend quite a lot of cash so far on apps.
QUESTION (off topic): if you got iOS, purchased apps are assigned to account, not device -> meaning if you buy an app for iPad 1 you can still use it on iPad3. How dose it work on Windows Phone and Android devices?
michiganenginerd said:
Likely yes. You would need to use a proxy to access other stores.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Proxy/VPN is not a problem - problem is in Live ID that is assigned to a specific country during creation and registration. In this case your IP does not matter. It is the same with Google Play. Once you have your Google account you can connect to the store form any location but it will not allow you ti install software not in your market (even if you can see it).
michiganenginerd said:
x86 IE10 yes, I use Hulu on my 8 device right now. Metro IE10 will not support plugins (no flash, silverlight, or active x). You will need an 'app', or a site supporting HTML5 for IE10 to work.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again, if it will be so difficult with getting those apps it might influence sales and opinions outside of the US.
It looks to me that if only manufacturers of x86 devices will resolve problem with heating and active cooling (which imho have no please on tablet or hybrid laptop) it will be the only ver of Win8 that will make sense to buy.
Shame, as I would love to have "all this freedom" on an ARM device - I do not need computing power on mobile device but I also do not want to be limited in what I can install and from where/who.
michiganenginerd said:
It works fine on an x86 tablet. It will be up to Google on whether or not they provide a Metro version. At this time there should be no restriction in place to prevent them from doing so if they desire to.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What happens now 9on x86 Win8) if you try to add shortcut to Chrome on Metro UI? It dose not shows... or what?
If so, you mean you can lunch any software from desktop but not from metro screen? Does not make much sense... does it?
I understand that a "Metro app" will be easier to use and more touch friendly that current range of apps designed for mouse but still... it should be my choice. If I want to use it let me start it from any interface.
michiganenginerd said:
If you are going to buy a convertible windows 8 tablet, so it can be a laptop & a tablet, or if you are going to buy an x86 tablet, I would consider waiting for a windows 8 compatible device (expect sometime late summer / early fall.)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am considering buying now something like TF Prime or TF 300 - it might do what I need. And with some outside help (perhaps from here) beside usual stuff I should be able to get VPN client, Hulu +, Netflix and BBC on it. I am not worried about text editors as there should be quite few of those that will work with docx files and skydrive and hotmail.
And if Win8 will be a hit (I already bought Vista on a first day of sale - never again the same mistake! ) than I will consider getting it for my desktop and perhaps swapping a hybrid mobile device.
Does it make sense?
michiganenginerd said:
If you are going to buy a Win RT tablet, it is up to you, but I would probably buy a 200-300 android tablet, and then sell it and buy a windows one if/when it becomes a compelling device for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly what I wrote above .
dazza9075 said:
most of your questions have been answered, but im going to add a question (for you) an answer it
Should I buy a tablet now?
No, is the answer.
MS and its hardware partners have made some very interesting gains in the touch technology, not to mention Intels gains in performance / low watt CPUs.
if you buy now you will be missing out on some great tech especially around touch screens so it really would be a bit daft to buy just now, you also run the risk of it not supporting Win 8 completely as well. Seriously, wait it out until Win 8 comes, if you must get an older current gen device (perhaps price constrained?) then it will be cheaper then too
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well... I see your points, but...
It is still long wait for Win8, devices, decent reviews, all the hype and prices to settle and actual (physical) choice in the shop. I remember all the hype about competition to iPad 1 when it came out - it took almost a over year for devices to get to shops (remember CES and MWC in 2010 and 2011) - it is 2012 and not all devices are here.
How long it took Xoom to get to shops outside USA...?
Although Win8 (RT as well???) will go on sale after holidays... time for actual devices with the system (laptops, ultrabooks, netbooks, desktops, all in one PC's, tablets and hybrid tablets [have I missed anything?]) to get to the shop is a whole different story.
Meaning.... if it will take another (at least) 6-8 months to have an actual choice in the shops is it worth to wait and suffer in the mean time? But if I do get a TF300/Prime now - will I need a Win8 replacement for it?
sounds like you already made your mind up what you want to do and that Win 8 will not be as good as we think.
So perhaps save yourself to hassle and don't bother with it.
As for buying now that's up to you, but Win 8 wont be that long, hardware will be out soon and if you don't want that new hardware the older stuff will be a lot cheaper. 8 months after launch is way to far down the line, MS will be bending OEMs over backwards to get hardware out for launch.
You would be completely Bonkers buying now, we are about to get an RC of win 8, ARM will be getting developed in parallel, OEMs will have hardware taped out already to test the OS, which is something Apple doesn't have to worry too much about as they build the OS and hardware around one another where as Windows needs to support it all hence the longer development cycle and early gear in the wild
IF you get something now, there is no guarantee it will work or work well with Win RT or x86, so yes, potentially you will need to get new gear, and of course Win RT is OEM only meaning you can only get it with hardware soo.... you choice I guess.
As Dazza said it sounds like you have pretty much made up your mind. But in case there is still value in conversation.
galtom said:
Why not let ARM do what x86 does
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exisiting applications written for windows cannot just run on a ARM device. They need to be modified to support and recompiled.
Existing applications written for desktops and laptops, even if they could run with no changes, would result in a poor experience.
You have two types of devices: Windows & Windows RT
You have two types of applications: Metro & Classic
RT devices are low power tablets running metro only.
Windows devices are likely to be ultrabooks, convertible laptops, and desktops running what they run today.
If you want a tablet, Win RT is a tablet with a full copy of office and a fun interface that will do what an iPad or an android tablet does, but is a device aimed at content consumption, not generation.
If you want a hybrid, you'll be be buying an x86 device, at least in the near future.
Not letting Diablo II & HALO run on Windows RT isn't just an arbitrary restriction. It won't run. It wasn't written, compiled, and tested on an ARM architecture.
galtom said:
Restrictions / curation:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OSX is adding sandboxing and store requirements over time. Expect in 10 years you have to buy apps from the Mac Store.
Microsoft is heading down the same path, at least for Metro applications. Expect in 10 years, consumers buy most apps from the Windows Store.
Is that a good thing? For some consumers probably. For a developer maybe. For an xda-reader not so much.
galtom said:
Flash Support
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As for flash, it will be very unlikely to come to Windows RT.
Win RT browser will not support plugins.
Adobe has ended new development of Flash on ARM to focus on HTML5.
galtom said:
Why would I buy Win8 RT over android if it is restricted?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why would you choose Android over an iPad?
You choose what is the most compelling to you.
Maybe you like METRO, want domain support, or full native MS Office.
galtom said:
It is still long wait for Win8 devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't that long. Release Candidate is first week of June.
I am running it on an AMD E-350 acer tablet I bought for $300, and I use it over my Transformer.
I hold onto my transformer still to use with Citrix Reciever,
Otherwise I use a laptop, an E-350 hybrid, and an A100 as my devices today.
Expect end of summer that 5 point devices, using the new touch technology go on sale.
Expect late fall devices are sold for the holidays.
What you do is up to you as an individual about what is compelling.
For me I can't wait to buy device like the IdeaPad Yoga. I'll switch to using that and a 7" tablet.
If you are happy with Android, the Transformer is fine, I just find myself using the 7" or a full laptop. I rarely use the 10".
You sound fairly unhappy about Win 8's existance. I'm happy to have more choices.
For me, I will reduce my 4 devices to two, one of which I'm excited about. I won't be likely to buy an RT device, but I expect many will.
We aren't the average user that is being targeted by an RT Device. My parents use a 10" tablet for 90% of their internet. They get on a laptop or desktop for writing long emails, uploading photos & using office. If their tablet had widi to wirelessly throw the screen to a monitor, and could use office, they would probably never use their laptop.
Sales People & Relationship Managers that carry around iPads or Androids also can get a device that works with their corporate domain, and has full office on it. For many that would meet their needs.
But just because Windows RT doesn't meet the needs of an average xda user, doesn't mean it fails for the millions of people using netbooks & 5 year old laptops to browse the web, pay bills online, and occasionally use office.
michiganenginerd said:
As Dazza said it sounds like you have pretty much made up your mind. But in case there is still value in conversation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, that is true but only to a point.
At the moment I think I will give ICS on Asus TF a try and byt the end of the year if x86 tablets with W8 will get good reviews I think I will jump the ship.
My concern (I had Asus 1201n with Atom 330 onboard and have Samsung NC10) is performance of current Atom chips - is it really better (forget about watching smooth YT video on NC10 - and it is not a problem on iPad!).
Heat! - cant have tablet with active cooling system.
Weight! - the likes of current fliptop netbook/tablets its just not nice (heavy and hot).
Battery life - 8h is a must (basically x86 W8 tablet [with a dock] has to be able to work (videos, internet, e-mail - nothing very heavy) to work 1 day
michiganenginerd said:
Originally Posted by galtom
Why not let ARM do what x86 does
Exisiting applications written for windows cannot just run on a ARM device. They need to be modified to support and recompiled.
Existing applications written for desktops and laptops, even if they could run with no changes, would result in a poor experience.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not exactly what I have asked or at least not what I meant.
It is clear from me that x86 and ARM are two different platforms and I have never, ever expected old software to work on ARM devices.
But! If x86 can have both desktop and Metro why limit W-RT? If someone wants to create an ARM app that will support both modes, if users will want to use it...? Why not let us have the option to do so.
Second is the limitation of the sources of the software.
I can not imagine that W-RT will not get jailbroken as iOS is. But since iOS i way ahead of Windows and there is lots of Android devices on the market I can not see this as a PLUS point for W-RT, quite opposite.
W-RT (and devices with this system) will have to compete with:
- iOS: that is well marketed, well known, still cool, less restricted (no problem in swapping iTunes accounts), people already spend cash on software for their iPads, there is Office for iOS + lots of other business & entertainment software - why would current Apple customers ditch iPads?
Why would and iOS device owner said - OOO, another closed and restricted enviromet just looking different - I want it! - somehow I do not see that happening
- Android: envelope of openness that surrounds Android, no problem with root, community support, ROMS, apps from Google (or from wherever you want), probably a bit lower prices of devices, as iOS (in most cases) works with all Microsoft services + points as in iOS - folks have already spent cash on software, some devices are already in second or third generation
- Windows 8 x86 it has everything W-RT has + lots of more. Beats iOS and Android in terms of software availability, it is basically what you now have on desktop and laptop but with the proper support for touch (when you need it), if Intel&Friends will solve problems of weight/heat/battery life and price range will not be as for current line of Windows tablets it looks like a winner to me.
Having said (wrote) all that - why would Joe go to the shop and said:
"Gimme' that Asus with Windows RT" - instead of iOS, Android or Windows 8 device???
michiganenginerd said:
If you want a tablet, Win RT is a tablet with a full copy of office and a fun interface that will do what an iPad or an android tablet does, but is a device aimed at content consumption, not generation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Office for RT and Office for x86 - two different things :-(
+ Office for iOS should be here any moment (I thought it is already out). As much as MS would love to ignore iOS and keep Office out of iPAD I do not think they can. how many millions devices is already out there? If only 25% of those people would want one of Office products... its quite a lot of cash...
+ to all points above - there is also a question of price of the software for all platforms and system itself.
What's more, considering how big profit Apple is making on iPad it seems as lots of room for price adjustment once Windows8 & RT devices are out.
michiganenginerd said:
If you want a hybrid, you'll be be buying an x86 device, at least in the near future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quite true, but since I miss this sort of functionality every day (and I doubt I am only one) why not go for TF300 or TF Prime now?
There is nothing wrong with those devices and when I look at ICS and what RT will bring to table I do not see any reasonable points that would convince me to wait (that was the reason I wrote here - to see I my line of thinking is correct. So far (unfortunately for W-RT) you have not wrote that I am wrong or that I have misunderstood something about Windows RT.
The only thing worth considering are devices with x86 Windows onboard but:
- its still few months (in the mean time I could give ICS a try?
- they are unknown in terms of battery/heat/weight and price!
Windows RT seems like a great idea that was f...up during creation. If Windows RT would be first on the market (before iPad with iOS and Android) - no problem. They could do all that and people would still get it... nowadays, whey MS is trying to chase others... I do not really see it happening with Windows 8 RT looking as it is.
It is pretty similar to situation with Windows Phone. It is not a bad system... but it is not better either. In some case is like or a bit worse than iOS in some it is like or a bit worse than Android - but it is not BETTER.
And just look how iPhone and Android phones are selling. look where is manufacturers focus.
Samsung/LG/Sony/HTC - how many Android models and how many WP models?
I got strange felling that W-RT will share the same fate. It will be there but not as any threat to iOS or Android, unlike x86 Windows 8 if Intel&Co will deliver.
michiganenginerd said:
OSX is adding sandboxing and store requirements over time. Expect in 10 years you have to buy apps from the Mac Store.
Microsoft is heading down the same path, at least for Metro applications. Expect in 10 years, consumers buy most apps from the Windows Store.[/qoute]
Yes, and there is nothing wrong with this... especially that (I hope) with x86 version we will always keep the choice where we want our software to get from.
Looking at the history (of thing in general) I can not remember 1 good exaple where introduction of more and additional restrictions actually worked well. It is against human nature.
If in 10-15 Windows will become completely shut... than Linux (or something else) might raise its head and actually win hearts of customers - like Apple did not so far ago!
michiganenginerd said:
Is that a good thing? For some consumers probably. For a developer maybe. For an xda-reader not so much.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Can not agree! It is bad for every one - even developers as they will be forced to accept any policy and conditions from Microsoft (similar to what it is right now with Apple ).
Limiting the choice is never good for anyone beside "The Man" in control.
michiganenginerd said:
As for flash, it will be very unlikely to come to Windows RT.
Win RT browser will not support plugins.
Adobe has ended new development of Flash on ARM to focus on HTML5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And with recent news that RT will not support other browser but its own, best it is another point against this system.
It looks to me as MS is doing all it actually can to make it bad.
michiganenginerd said:
Why would you choose Android over an iPad?
You choose what is the most compelling to you.
Maybe you like METRO, want domain support, or full native MS Office.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
EXACTLY! If all above is true... who is going to get W-RT???
It will sell but only to people with no idea what they are buying, who dont really need it and who will not really use it (will not buy additional apps). Because if they do, if that will think before they buy... W-RT will be the last on the list (unless it will be the cheapest - which I doubt!)
michiganenginerd said:
It isn't that long. Release Candidate is first week of June.
I am running it on an AMD E-350 acer tablet I bought for $300, and I use it over my Transformer.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If only there would be an x86 ver of transformer with no fans to cool it down I would already be on it and this thread would not exist.
I just wanted to make sure that I am not missing something about Windows RT or situation in general.
I hold onto my transformer still to use with Citrix Reciever,
Otherwise I use a laptop, an E-350 hybrid, and an A100 as my devices today.
Expect end of summer that 5 point devices, using the new touch technology go on sale.
Expect late fall devices are sold for the holidays.
What you do is up to you as an individual about what is compelling.
For me I can't wait to buy device like the IdeaPad Yoga. I'll switch to using that and a 7" tablet.
If you are happy with Android, the Transformer is fine, I just find myself using the 7" or a full laptop. I rarely use the 10".
You sound fairly unhappy about Win 8's existance. I'm happy to have more choices.
For me, I will reduce my 4 devices to two, one of which I'm excited about. I won't be likely to buy an RT device, but I expect many will.
We aren't the average user that is being targeted by an RT Device. My parents use a 10" tablet for 90% of their internet. They get on a laptop or desktop for writing long emails, uploading photos & using office. If their tablet had widi to wirelessly throw the screen to a monitor, and could use office, they would probably never use their laptop.
Sales People & Relationship Managers that carry around iPads or Androids also can get a device that works with their corporate domain, and has full office on it. For many that would meet their needs.
But just because Windows RT doesn't meet the needs of an average xda user, doesn't mean it fails for the millions of people using netbooks & 5 year old laptops to browse the web, pay bills online, and occasionally use office.
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Short version:
W-RT is not for targeted at You, I, or many xda-readers. That doesn't mean it doesn't have a place or that the option existing is bad.
galtom said:
Heat, Weight, Battery Life!
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Intel is getting closer, but you just can't pull off an iPad size / weight device with 8h+ battery life on x86. The tech isn't there yet.
galtom said:
If x86 can have both desktop and Metro why limit W-RT?
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W-RT is OEM only. It is meant to be an 'appliance' not a PC.
Whether you agree with the approach or not, the justifications for limiting are somewhat explained here:
Microsoft's Windows chief Steven Sinofsky:
If we enabled the broad porting of existing code we would fail to deliver on our commitment to longer battery life, predictable performance, and especially a reliable experience over time. The conventions used by today's Windows apps do not necessarily provide this, whether it is background processes, polling loops, timers, system hooks, startup programs, registry changes, kernel mode code, admin rights, unsigned drivers, add-ins, or a host of other common techniques.
http://blogs.msdn.com/b/b8/archive/...ndows-for-the-arm-processor-architecture.aspx
galtom said:
I can not imagine that W-RT will not get jailbroken as iOS is.
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Less immediate need to jailbreak it. There are supported methods of sideloading, but I am sure there will be other people who extend it beyond that.
galtom said:
why would Joe go to the shop and said:
"Gimme' that Asus with Windows RT" - instead of iOS, Android or Windows 8 device???
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Joe may work for a BYOD company, or Joe is buying for his company.
Joe may be my Father, who would like a tablet device he could do email, netflix, hulu, office, and wireless screencasting.
Some Joe's this will work for, other's it won't. We have to recognize, just because we aren't the target market doesn't mean their isn't one.
Many Joe's will buy an iPad or an Android, some will buy W-RT, some will buy none of the above.
A device that is 300-500 dollars, that comes with a free copy of office, and integrates well with a enterprise, has a market.
galtom said:
Office for RT and Office for x86 - two different things
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Excel, OneNote, PowerPoint and Word are expected to support all of the same Office 15 x86 features.
galtom said:
Windows Phone. It is not a bad system... but it is not better either.
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Agreed, except in the base security model, and as a feature phone replacement. The phone is massively ahead in terms of sandboxing and enforcing secure practices. It would also be a better phone in terms of ease of use and simplicity for a subset of users. Would I replace my Android with it? no. But that doesn't mean it doesn't do some things well, and that their are users who would find the experience simpler than iPhone or Android when buying their first smartphone.
galtom said:
It will be there but not as any threat to iOS or Android, unlike x86 Windows 8 if Intel&Co will deliver.
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Does something have to be an 'iPad Killer' for there to be a place for it? Why is choice a bad thing?
galtom said:
Restrictions .... bad for every one
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For some consumers the security and curation makes their experience better, for some the restrictions outweigh any benefit.
For some developers the market will be better than one not existing, for some the restrictions outweigh any benefit.
For most people on this board the restrictions outweigh the upside.
As a developer, while I hate the restrictions Apple and MS impose, I also now have a market to sell to that did not exist 10 years ago.
I will continue to be a proponent of more open options, and an end to restrictions put in place to support a business model rather than architecture or security, but that doesnt' mean that the app store's existance is a net negative on my life.
galtom said:
RT will not support other browser but its own
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Not true. RT will not support other browsers in 'Classic / Desktop' mode.
I think MS should work with major vendors to allow them to deliver 'classic' mode applications on ARM, but this isn't a ban on other browsers, it's a ban on all software that does not run in the sandbox.
galtom said:
It will sell but only to people with no idea what they are buying
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I share concern in this area. I believe that most people who bought netbooks did not get what they expected.
I do think there is a place for these devices for a larger group of users than netbooks had a place for.
But I do think they need to make sure it is sold / marketed in a way that makes it clear what it is, and what it is not.
I will probably get my Father one for Christmas. I probably will not get one of my own. Different users have different needs, hopefully the marketing, sales, and staffs at stores do a better job of directing them.
Did anyone see this?
My understand is the Windows RT Slate comes with a full version of MS Office. How can anyone compare this to a Kindle Fire? Why is it that any time MSFT introduces something people say all sorts of bizarre things about it but with Apple they will pay any price for subpar hardware?
In my opinion, the RT version shouldn't cost more than the iPad. It's a new product and there aren't as many apps as there are on iPad.
luizmeme said:
In my opinion, the RT version shouldn't cost more than the iPad. It's a new product and there aren't as many apps as there are on iPad.
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I disagree with you, any windows rt tablets should cost about as much as android tablets fall into while the Intel tablets should cost about the same as some of the higher end ipads
right now windows 8 has about as many apps as android tablets do when it comes to metro apps but if you're running an Intel based tablets you have desktop apps and games along side of metro apps and games
good price,lets see if they include office.
The competition is ON but please le's not get ahead of ourselves. Microsoft already has their pricing range set. The Kindle or iPad have different hardware set Compairing different things here. It's all about what you prefer and can afford!
Happy buying!
Who needs a bunch of apps if the OS is built correctly?
luizmeme said:
In my opinion, the RT version shouldn't cost more than the iPad. It's a new product and there aren't as many apps as there are on iPad.
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What would you rather have Words With Friends or a full blown version of Office on your tablet? Furthermore I believe IE10 will have flash support built in. I notice a lot of Apps are there because tablets and phones can't use a lot of websites correctly. What would you rather have a full blown working browser or a clutter of apps?
I can't leave my laptop at home and travel with any of the major tablets. I need Office, Photoshop, and a full blown browser. I hate it when I get on the reservation page of a hotel and the tablet can't pull it up correctly. I can't book or cancel rooms half the time on that thing. You've got to get an app for that. So annoying. Seriously I just looked at the start menu of my desktop and besides the built in stuff that comes with Windows 7 I have Office, Photoshop, Adobe reader, VLC, Firefox, and pretty much nothing else.
sitizenx said:
What would you rather have Words With Friends or a full blown version of Office on your tablet? Furthermore I believe IE10 will have flash support built in. I notice a lot of Apps are there because tablets and phones can't use a lot of websites correctly. What would you rather have a full blown working browser or a clutter of apps?
I can't leave my laptop at home and travel with any of the major tablets. I need Office, Photoshop, and a full blown browser. I hate it when I get on the reservation page of a hotel and the tablet can't pull it up correctly. I can't book or cancel rooms half the time on that thing. You've got to get an app for that. So annoying. Seriously I just looked at the start menu of my desktop and besides the built in stuff that comes with Windows 7 I have Office, Photoshop, Adobe reader, VLC, Firefox, and pretty much nothing else.
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you cant rely on office so heavily, that's why windows mobile failed but i do agree with you, this will be one of the first productive tablets instead of the play ones, but they need to make IE faster, after using IE10 on my tab i have to say it sucks just as much as all the other IE versions did, now im just playing the waiting game for google to fix their touch support in the chrome browser before i make the switch to using chrome
luigi90210 said:
you cant rely on office so heavily, that's why windows mobile failed but i do agree with you, this will be one of the first productive tablets instead of the play ones, but they need to make IE faster, after using IE10 on my tab i have to say it sucks just as much as all the other IE versions did, now im just playing the waiting game for google to fix their touch support in the chrome browser before i make the switch to using chrome
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I'm not "relying on office so heavily." Plus office on any small phone screen has limited utility. Office on a Surface is a whole different matter. You have a full keyboard and trackpad. You even have a USB port so you can use a mouse. On the Pro Surface you can even run photoshop. My point is I can leave everything at home and just take a Surface and my Windows Phone on a trip and I am set. Office, Photoshop, Acrobat, and Firefox cover 95% of my computing needs. I don't need a million and one apps. If I need to check weather, stock quotes, news, etc I can just go online. I have a full keyboard and mouse if I wish.
I could never go on a trip with just an ipad and a phone. No way. I've been burned too many times. Comparing a Surface which is a fully functional machine to an ipad which is an expensive glorified toy is ridiculous.
I'm into music production, I can have the full version of my music software on the 86 version that's gonna change things alot. My friend who is a producer he has two iPads and is getting a third one, that are loaded with every music app you get but the still has to use his desktop or laptop to get any work done, I'll be able to do it with one device.
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
Plus people are forgetting that there's gonna be many more windows slates out other than ms some may have even better specs the ms surface has, hp,Dell,etc. This is gonna be the death of the desktop year, no one is gonna get a desktop because the surface devices can work as full computer the 86 version has a mini port , an the rt has a HD video port, plus all the other stuff
Sent from my Lumia 900 using XDA Windows Phone 7 App
The surface RT will NEVER be as low or lower than $199. You'd be lucky to see it under $599. Remember, it will out spec the other Tablet/Slates in the market and surely outdo the iPad. Microsoft is sick of being screwed and laughed at, they're now going to show the MFG's what the mean when they said you need to do this and that (spec wise).
Pricing
I wrote a comment about this earlier posting why it will be around that price range.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=27884775&postcount=33
:good:
lseidman said:
The surface RT will NEVER be as low or lower than $199. You'd be lucky to see it under $599. Remember, it will out spec the other Tablet/Slates in the market and surely outdo the iPad. Microsoft is sick of being screwed and laughed at, they're now going to show the MFG's what the mean when they said you need to do this and that (spec wise).
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Google will lunch Nexus 7 which will costs under 200$ in the base version.
I think if Microsoft wants to be competitive in the tablet market needs to sell its Surface under 199$.
599$ is very expensive.
Price seems too good to be true
lseidman said:
The surface RT will NEVER be as low or lower than $199. You'd be lucky to see it under $599. Remember, it will out spec the other Tablet/Slates in the market and surely outdo the iPad. Microsoft is sick of being screwed and laughed at, they're now going to show the MFG's what the mean when they said you need to do this and that (spec wise).
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Click to collapse
for 599 i can buy a windows 32bit tablet and an android tablet, microsoft isnt stupid so i know it wont be priced that high for the rt tablet, they need to compete with ipads remember, and just cause it out specs and out does the ipad doesnt mean people will buy it, android tabs are already cheaper and faster than the ipad but the ipad still out sells android tablets(not including ereaders)
---------- Post added at 03:37 AM ---------- Previous post was at 03:35 AM ----------
DeAndreon said:
Google will lunch Nexus 7 which will costs under 200$ in the base version.
I think if Microsoft wants to be competitive in the tablet market needs to sell its Surface under 199$.
599$ is very expensive.
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i dont think microsoft is going after android as much as they are going after the ipad
android tablets are cost effective because android is a free OS while windows is licensed to manufactures, if its anything i think the cheapest windows rt tablet will cost around 250-290 depending on specs which tbh isnt outrageous
i dont think microsoft is going after android as much as they are going after the ipad
android tablets are cost effective because android is a free OS while windows is licensed to manufactures, if its anything i think the cheapest windows rt tablet will cost around 250-290 depending on specs which tbh isnt outrageous[/QUOTE]
This
People who think it needs to cost LESS than $199 are smoking crack. It needs no such thing.
What it DOES need to do is be priced competitively with entry level iPad, which means around $399-499 for the ARM version. The Intel version can get away with ultrabook pricing because, well, it's basically an ultrabook--just with a badass design .
Now that we've seen the Nexus 7 Android tablet at $199 with similar guts to the RT version (as long as we assume the RT version will be Tegra 3) but with a smaller screen, but with more features, it's fair and safe to say that we should expect reasonable pricing for Surface on Windows RT.
But with that said, I don't expect Surface, even in ARM version, to be the cheapest Windows 8 tablet. I believe we'll see third parties offering less expensive--probably more cheaply built, too--Windows RT tablets. How low will they go?
Well, I guess only time will tell. On the bright side, MS has been very smart with the development of both Windows 8 and Surface--they won't fall into the lawsuit trap that Android makers have with Apple.
sitizenx said:
Did anyone see this?
My understand is the Windows RT Slate comes with a full version of MS Office. How can anyone compare this to a Kindle Fire? Why is it that any time MSFT introduces something people say all sorts of bizarre things about it but with Apple they will pay any price for subpar hardware?
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Click to collapse
I think Microsoft should 'cheapen' the RT to compete with Nexus 7, The more competition, the better.
guys u need to remmember that u pay some cash for the windows OS.When u buy a laptop with installed windows in it it u pay around 200$ (in Bulgaria) for the licence more compared to a laptop or pc without OS.So im 100% sure that the cost of the RT version will be will be included in the tablet so lets hope that the OS is around 70% so the tablet can be priced around 250 300$.I think that the RT version starting from 250 300$ is a pretty good price.About the win8 pro i gues 700/800$ +
After having the asus transformer prime for about the last 4 months or so, I can gladly say I would rather pay extra for RT. If they update it like they do other windows then it's worth it. Remember with a free OS YOU GET EXACTLY WHAT YOU PAY FOR!!