Database Users

lag?

So what is creating the lag on the magic?is it a hardware limitation or is the android os to blame,and why it will run ok for few days and then start to slow down?i am out on the road for work alot and i do realy use my magic alot for surfing the net ,watching movies,and so on and it get frustating when the softkeyboard start to slow down like now wile im writing in this post.
If is software related i hope google will resolve the problems soon at the next update,i realy hate when the browser does not scroll up or down the page smootly to.

You have to reboot the phone once a day. Its like this for almost all smart phones. I had too do it to my Iphone twice a day sometimes. There is also a program in the market called taskiller, I suggest getting it. The program can free up 20m in 2 sec.

What im asking is the reason why the lag appear.bad coding of android os?apps r not build properly?

Hard to tell, I noticed that some apps are bad, when I cleaned up some of my market apps and removed them, I stopped getting the slow down near as often. I take it some of those apps had memory leaks. I actually sped up when I removed task killer, I'm not making accusations, but the version I was running might have had problems of it's own.
I will take exception to the idea that phones have to be rebooted all the time, they shouldn't. WinMo I had to reboot twice a day at times, but the Iphone...I rarely rebooted, and I would go six months or more without a blackberry reboot (usually only to flash to a new rom).
Hard to say without some really good diagnostic time whether the memory is leaking from apps or core OS processes. If it was obvious, the android developers would have already fixed them (and some probably are in upcoming revisions). That being said, Android will get there with a little time. I wouldn't go back to the iphone unless there is a major change in the way it operates, and I would only switch to blackberry if they drastically improved their Storm. The openness of Android and above all the notifications system on Android trump its rough edges. Now if only copy and paste.........

Ho well i hope google is going to sort it out soon.
My friend just upgrade to the new iphone and i must say that is very quick,speedyyyyyyy.
Is android os full accesible by the devs or there are part of it that only google have right to?

guinnes.s said:
Ho well i hope google is going to sort it out soon.
My friend just upgrade to the new iphone and i must say that is very quick,speedyyyyyyy.
Is android os full accesible by the devs or there are part of it that only google have right to?
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Don't worry the new iphone has the same issue, has to reboot every day or so once it's all loaded up with apps and cache. My brother has the new one and it's on par with the Magic for speed but you have to remember it's only a "one show pony".
Clinton

Its on par?? By the look of it is not near up to the speed of the iphone.
So are parts of the os that devs on this forum cannot acces?

guinnes.s said:
Its on par?? By the look of it is not near up to the speed of the iphone.
So are parts of the os that devs on this forum cannot acces?
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Click to collapse
Which magic are you using? My Rogers 32A magic is at least as fast if not faster in some things than the 3GS. I had both here testing and they are equal in alot of things. But the Magic can multitask where the iphone can run one app.
Clinton

I see a lot of phones through the course of a day and i can tell you ALL smartphones eventualy end up with lag. The more they can do, the more likely they will slow down. Even your laptop, desktop, car, and body will slow down with time and use. We demand more features, power, battery life, colors, channels, options, etc..... We had none of this twenty years ago. Does anyone remember their Commadore 64? Keep your perspective. 99% of the tech we use today came about in the last 35 to 45 years. We get angry because we have to wait 3 seconds to find out our latitude and longitude because were looking for a starbucks. If you want it to run better, turn it off and do without it for a day. You'll not complain about minimal lag for a few days after that.

Sorry for the rant folks....

donepate said:
I see a lot of phones through the course of a day and i can tell you ALL smartphones eventualy end up with lag. The more they can do, the more likely they will slow down. Even your laptop, desktop, car, and body will slow down with time and use. We demand more features, power, battery life, colors, channels, options, etc..... We had none of this twenty years ago. Does anyone remember their Commadore 64? Keep your perspective. 99% of the tech we use today came about in the last 35 to 45 years. We get angry because we have to wait 3 seconds to find out our latitude and longitude because were looking for a starbucks. If you want it to run better, turn it off and do without it for a day. You'll not complain about minimal lag for a few days after that.
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You're so right Serious!

Yes i do agree to.
I wanted only to know what would cause the lag,thats all.

Understandable. We would not have gotten this far if we had never tried to work out the details and make them better. I suppose it's a double edged sword. By the time we perfect one device we are off to another. Until we do though, the daily reboot is our best freind. Hope I did not sound like I was comming down on you.

guinnes.s said:
Yes i do agree to.
I wanted only to know what would cause the lag,thats all.
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Click to collapse
I think this is a valid and important question. I just bought the tmobile mt3g and the keyboard lag, when web browsing, is the single most annoying issue. Is this a hardware limitation, or something that we can expect to improve as the software is refined?
I've been googling around trying to find an answer to this but it seems like most threads are concerned with "features lists" rather than "user experience". It makes sense. It's a lot harder to quantify the latter, but we still should try, especially since this is the axis where the open platform model might be inferior to the proprietary one (apple/palm). I mean, I'm pretty sure android is going to have a better feature list within the year (if not already). The real unknown is whether it will be a fast, integrated, polished user experience.
Maybe one of the gurus on this list can given an enlightened opinion. My guess is that it's mostly a software issue. The keyboard works a lot faster in SMS or gmail than in the browser. There really isn't an excuse for this other than lazy software. All the javascript is taking up cycles that the keyboard needs to be snappy perhaps?

can someone answer my question please:
Is android os full accesible by the devs or there are part of it that only google have right to?

If I am not mistaken, the max CPU frequncy is set to 385 MHz instead of the 528 it is capable of on a stock rom. Underclocking can save battery life, and that is one on the major complaints I see about the newer phones. More speed means less battery life. If you want to get the most out of the MyTouch your best bet is to root the phone and set your max speed to the 528 level using SetCPU or a similar program. The phone is very capable of doing more than what you see out of the box. You just need to work on it. We are here because we are not the general public that likes to just "leave it as it is". Root it, get one of Cyanogen's (my favorite) or some one elses roms, and SetCPU. you will be impressed.

I got root and runing cyan roms.
It seems that many people dont get the question that im asking. Maybe my english is not great and seems that anyone is trying to jump in the same vagon defending android without realise i m not trashing it .
Some of the answers i do think are unrelated to my question ,so maybe is me that is not clear.?

So you have lag on Cyanogen's rom? Which rom is it? Do you have a lot of apps installed? Have you tried SetCPU? I have a two MyTouch running Cyan's 4.0.1, SetCPU has me running at 528 max, 328 min. i do not have any lag on my keyboard or any of my apps. I reboot once a day but have never realy needed to. Post what you have going and I will do my best to help you out.

Sorry. You are right. I did forget about the original question. "why does lag apear in the first place". I don't have a lot of specifics for you, but I can tell you that phones are manufactured for the "general" public. Build it, get it out, and don't support it properly is what I see. I work for a U.S. service provider and I spend my day trying to get people to speak up. I do what I can to help everyone but I aint no jeanus if you get my meaning. If we demand more we will get more. And yet people keep on buying devices mearly because they are the "in" thing. Remember the rule of "supply and demand"? If we buy it and dont ask questions, they will take the money and run. Damn I am being a radical. It is true though. If we don't give them hell, they will just keep doing the same thing.

H
donepate said:
So you have lag on Cyanogen's rom? Which rom is it? Do you have a lot of apps installed? Have you tried SetCPU? I have a two MyTouch running Cyan's 4.0.1, SetCPU has me running at 528 max, 328 min. i do not have any lag on my keyboard or any of my apps. I reboot once a day but have never realy needed to. Post what you have going and I will do my best to help you out.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im on cyan 4.1
VODAFONE UK MAGIC
32B SHIP S-ON G
HBOOT 1.33.0004 SAPP10000
CPLD-10
RADIO 2.22.19.26I
APR 9 2009
Formated card using recovery to 3 partitions,fat32-ext3-swap
Running 4x rss withgets plus Weather widget,about 10 apps installed.
Same lag with previus cyan wersion exspecialy when closing browser wile goung back to home screen.
Thanx

Lag? What lag?

Is it me or has this so called lag been blown completely out of proportion with the SGS? I used to have a HTC Hero, I tell you, it's like going from riding a snail to a rocket fuselage. That phone was so slow, a phone may I add which only a year ago was seen as the 'iPhone killer'.
Please are there any previous HTC Hero users who now own a SGS? You have to speak out!
I mean sure, I've used a HTC Desire, it's very fast. But the only difference I have noticed is that on the SGS sometimes Apps take around 3secs longer to open than they should. That's it!! I mean, why are you all complaining so much! It's just as fast as the Desire except that point.
I have now had the SGS for 2 weeks, I haven't noticed any considerable slowdown. It works great! Why are you all complaining like babies? Have you installed Crysis 2 on your SGS or something, obviously your phone would never work again if you did that. Before anybody asks, I have made no changes to my SGS. I have an unlocked SGS, still on Touchwiz, no flash, no root. I don't even use task killer for God's sake. Please would someone explain to me what the big deal is?

What you have to realise is that it's not an always persistent problem. The phone in general is extremely fast, however with earlier firmwares the phone does not free up memory effectively. 3 seconds is nothing, but I recall sometimes waiting 10-15 seconds for the Dialer to launch. And when the memory is really really clogged up, it's a complete pain even pressing the home screen button (waiting 10 seconds to go to home isn't pretty either). For a phone with so much power, do you really think this is normal?

The difference must just be that I'm not a heavy app user. I still have the stock firmware the phone came with. Never had a 10 second delay with anything. Never noticed any sort of build up of lag. It works great! Do you guys install like 50 apps on your phones or something? Clearly that must be your problem.

I have never had any problems either (other than with flaky GPS).
Someone told me how to replicate the lag issue, and it boiled down to having 8-odd apps running in the background at once. I would expect the same on my multi-core 4GB RAM iMac, let alone a phone with 256MB RAM.
Not saying others are only having problems with the above situation, but it does seem like there are specific factors that cause it, which is why a lot of people have had no problems.

The phone has 512mb ram.
Just that currently, HiMem is not available (will be in froyo as a default, and if we're lucky, in the JF6 firmware as well)

Pika007 said:
The phone has 512mb ram.
Just that currently, HiMem is not available (will be in froyo as a default, and if we're lucky, in the JF6 firmware as well)
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Click to collapse
I know, but until we can actually use it, we are limited to 256MB (or was it 232MB?)

SGS has 512MB RAM

Robin.B said:
What you have to realise is that it's not an always persistent problem. The phone in general is extremely fast, however with earlier firmwares the phone does not free up memory effectively. 3 seconds is nothing, but I recall sometimes waiting 10-15 seconds for the Dialer to launch. And when the memory is really really clogged up, it's a complete pain even pressing the home screen button (waiting 10 seconds to go to home isn't pretty either). For a phone with so much power, do you really think this is normal?
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+1
And although I am not a really heavy app user, I am a heavy user, and it wasn't hard to make the phone lag quite heavily at times, so I'd say no, it has not been blown out of proportion.

Robin.B; said:
What you have to realise is that it's not an always persistent problem. The phone in general is extremely fast, however with earlier firmwares the phone does not free up memory effectively. 3 seconds is nothing, but I recall sometimes waiting 10-15 seconds for the Dialer to launch. And when the memory is really really clogged up, it's a complete pain even pressing the home screen button (waiting 10 seconds to go to home isn't pretty either). For a phone with so much power, do you really think this is normal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1.
More serious in some applications like mails, RSS reader. It's so slow that I don't even use my SGS for my mails, or to read news anymore.

Tachikoma_kun said:
I have never had any problems either (other than with flaky GPS).
Someone told me how to replicate the lag issue, and it boiled down to having 8-odd apps running in the background at once. I would expect the same on my multi-core 4GB RAM iMac, let alone a phone with 256MB RAM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tachikoma_kun,
Please understand that Android does not work like the Mac OSX on an iMac, and that, if you open 8 odd apps in a row, you should _not_ have them all running in the background at once.
Android's memory management should close applications and free memory as needed. Processes will start if needed, be set to inactive as long as possible and killed if necessary. This works fine with other Android devices and obviously not with the Galaxy S.
You can read about the life cycle of Android Components at
http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/fundamentals.html
Using a task killer to free up memory might make your Galaxy S faster than not using one, but this is still a lot less efficient than it should be. In a working Android system you should use the most out of your available memory and the system should stay fast as you open and switch between applications. You should never have to think about which applications are running or not running.
Again, this works just fine with other devices. If it does not work with the Galaxy S then this is a serious flaw in the system. The flaw might be related to the slow I/O on the internal SD, or maybe there is a firmware bug besides the I/O. But it is currently not working correctly.
If you have access to 256mb memory of RAM, and you use a task killer to always keep 100MB free, then you use your device like it only had 156MB.
I also do not believe that the average customer without a technical background is able to use a task killer without shooting himself in the foot. Without knowledge about what each application and service does, and how android manages background processes, how should a normal user know what he can kill and which services he should keep running?

lag problem blown out of proportion. May be froyo update will satisfy the hunger of these power hungary geeks.

lag problem blown out of proportion. May be froyo update will satisfy the hunger of these power hungary geeks.

eaglesteve said:
+1.
More serious in some applications like mails, RSS reader. It's so slow that I don't even use my SGS for my mails, or to read news anymore.
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I just don't get it. I've never had this problem. Emails and news update perfectly with no lag.

Enarca said:
I just don't get it. I've never had this problem. Emails and news update perfectly with no lag.
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Perhaps whether a person thinks it's slow or not depends on what that person was used to?

That is exactly what i was telling people.
I come from the HTC Athena, and OMG... that thing is like crawling on sand, even with its super duper 625 Mhz CPU which by then was supposed to be the state of the art.
yet everything i did was sloooooooooooooooooooooooooooooow, using the SGS was like smooth flowing water, everything is perfect in this phone out of the box.
Enarca said:
Is it me or has this so called lag been blown completely out of proportion with the SGS? I used to have a HTC Hero, I tell you, it's like going from riding a snail to a rocket fuselage. That phone was so slow, a phone may I add which only a year ago was seen as the 'iPhone killer'.
Please are there any previous HTC Hero users who now own a SGS? You have to speak out!
I mean sure, I've used a HTC Desire, it's very fast. But the only difference I have noticed is that on the SGS sometimes Apps take around 3secs longer to open than they should. That's it!! I mean, why are you all complaining so much! It's just as fast as the Desire except that point.
I have now had the SGS for 2 weeks, I haven't noticed any considerable slowdown. It works great! Why are you all complaining like babies? Have you installed Crysis 2 on your SGS or something, obviously your phone would never work again if you did that. Before anybody asks, I have made no changes to my SGS. I have an unlocked SGS, still on Touchwiz, no flash, no root. I don't even use task killer for God's sake. Please would someone explain to me what the big deal is?
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Click to collapse

Im not a SGS owner but i keep noticing the reference to the desire. I did own a snapdragon device until about a week ago. (Droid Incredible). Switched to droid x. The only real reason i believe there is lag on the samsung is the touchwiz. The cpu&gpu in the SGS IS FAR SUPERIOR to that of the desire. Htc just has the most polished custom ui. If u get launcher pro id be willing to bet that lag is gonzola in a hurry. Maybe give this a try? Just trying to help my fellow androiders out. Goodluck fellas
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

ksizzle9 said:
Im not a SGS owner but i keep noticing the reference to the desire. I did own a snapdragon device until about a week ago. (Droid Incredible). Switched to droid x. The only real reason i believe there is lag on the samsung is the touchwiz. The cpu&gpu in the SGS IS FAR SUPERIOR to that of the desire. Htc just has the most polished custom ui. If u get launcher pro id be willing to bet that lag is gonzola in a hurry. Maybe give this a try? Just trying to help my fellow androiders out. Goodluck fellas
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
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what made you choose a Droid X vs. a SGS i9000?
the 2 phones are almost identical, except for the camera.

the lag is very real.
try opening Dolphin HD and then closing it again .....about 8+ seconds to do either, and that's with nothing else open.
instantaneous on the nexus with 2.2.
some apps are much slower than others, some there is no difference, but even the default samsung apps such as phonebook have a good lag when switching between tabs.

eaglesteve said:
Perhaps whether a person thinks it's slow or not depends on what that person was used to?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree. I'm guessing you haven't used/owned a HTC Hero? If so, you haven't experienced the PAIN!! lol.

On my side I don't have any heavy app, I don't do games, or HD stuff what I expect from my phone is to be able to show me my mail ... and that's where I have plenty of lag ( not all the time but everyday for sure).
Lag to open the mail, lag to delete the mail, lag to come back on the homescreen.
Up to 15 sec to come back from the settings menu.
My benchmark is the iphone 3GS but also the HTC P3600 and the HTC diamond which are not that fast
I have never been waiting so long in front of my phone.
Excuse me if I am working with my phone and I don't want to wait 10 sec all the time.
And stop insulting people who complains please
Oh and the comment about installing 50 apps .... please learn how android is supposed to work. I should be able to install 1000 app without any problem. Who care about the number of app installed ???
By the way, when I have a lot of lag I go in systempanel to see what it my amount of memory and it's around 30-50 Mb so it should not be a problem.

Slow X, looking for info and/or advice

My X has been running slow and a little funny. I have froyo 2.3.15, with FlyX Rom, Revolution Themes, LauncherPro Plus, and Beautiful Widgets all running. Revolution was the last thing I added about a week ago and ever since then, it seems to be running different. Its slower to react, doesn't change from portrait to landscape very fast, whenever I unlock the screen, if I'm holding it straight up and down, it always opens into landscape mode. This seems like a pretty standard setup to a lot of people on here. Any advice and info on this topic would be appreciated, or just conversation about what others are running similar or different. Thanks a lot!
(also, I ran quadrant benchmark with scores between 1440 and 1495)

brandon2x said:
My X has been running slow and a little funny. I have froyo 2.3.15, with FlyX Rom, Revolution Themes, LauncherPro Plus, and Beautiful Widgets all running. Revolution was the last thing I added about a week ago and ever since then, it seems to be running different. Its slower to react, doesn't change from portrait to landscape very fast, whenever I unlock the screen, if I'm holding it straight up and down, it always opens into landscape mode. This seems like a pretty standard setup to a lot of people on here. Any advice and info on this topic would be appreciated, or just conversation about what others are running similar or different. Thanks a lot!
(also, I ran quadrant benchmark with scores between 1440 and 1495)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I cannot recall whether or not FlyX includes the build.prop modifications or not, if not you would definitely want to make those. Other than that the only other thing I would recommend is giving MinFreeManager a shot, it changes the "low memory" requirements for the built in memory manager (task manager) of android. If configured properly it can really make a difference in both battery life and performance (not speed, but responsiveness). It does not do it for you, it lets you set the fields, so learn how to do it first, it varies depending on your use of your phone, I don't run any facebook or other streaming applications so my settings are 6,8,16,60,60,150 but this could vary greatly, and may adversely affect others, so read up on the app in the market.
Again that app will improve responsiveness, in that it will give you less delay when swyping the screen in the UI and such, in that your phone does not have to kill a task to free up memory to complete the next task, it will not improve benchmarks, at the same time, poor memory management will give you poor performance in real world use but may not affect your benchmarks, another reason that benchmarks are poor ways of measuring performance.
Outside of that, what it really comes down to is our Android systems need hardware acceleration... Google really needs to get of there... well... you know... and get with the game here, based off the recent discussion and their advisement to manufacturers to hold of the release of tablets until the next android release, I am hoping they are currently implementing it, but without GPU hardware acceleration in the UI and web browser, we will constantly have the appearance of choppiness and the illusion of poor performance even on our overqualified phones... it is one area where I am sad to say the iPhone has us beat... very sad to say... as a matter of fact, I just washed my mouth out with a bit of soap...
EDIT: a good example of how well that application worked for me over actual "tasks killers" on the market such as task killer and such... before having this app installed and configured, a quick investigation of "settings, applications, running services" and viewing the available memory, it would display "Avail:16MB+98MB in ##" after having this app and having it configured it displays "Avail:72MB+116MB in 26" I am assuming my poor UI responsiveness was due to the first of the two numbers...

Yeah I always hate to say that about iPhones too but they do seem to keep the same speed and responsiveness ALL the time... Oh well, they've been around a little longer so Android will just have to keep working on it. I believe it'll be there soon. I will try that app you recommended. I appreciate the speedy response.

brandon2x said:
Yeah I always hate to say that about iPhones too but they do seem to keep the same speed and responsiveness ALL the time... Oh well, they've been around a little longer so Android will just have to keep working on it. I believe it'll be there soon. I will try that app you recommended. I appreciate the speedy response.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no problem, yeah, the iPhone has had GPU hardware acceleration in the UI since it came out, they structured their OS around it, Google chose otherwise, and I can only hope they regret that decision now... but hopefully they will make amends for that...
just make sure you read the post referenced in the app itself. It is written for the HTC Hero which only has 288MB of Ram as opposed to our 512MB Ram, but it still basically applies.
Keep in mind:
It does not automatically set on reboot until you tell it to, do not tell it to until you are sure the settings you have set do not mess with anything.
You probably will not notice a difference for about an hour... at least that's how long it took for me to truly notice a difference... I'm not really sure why, it apparently took that long for the priorities to take affect, and get the right processes killed, etc., etc. After that, especially later that day I was truly noticing a difference, especially in typing... I have always had a delay when typing on this phone, and that seems to be gone now...

yeah i was guessing that. i read an article at androidcentral.com about it and just set it to aggressive for now. applied it, but the specs under "running services" haven't changed so i'll give it an hour or so. i'll let you know how it turns out. thanks again!

brandon2x said:
yeah i was guessing that. i read an article at androidcentral.com about it and just set it to aggressive for now. applied it, but the specs under "running services" haven't changed so i'll give it an hour or so. i'll let you know how it turns out. thanks again!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds good, your welcome and good luck!
If those settings work out for you without any problems, you'll probably want to up them a bit, it might say aggressive, but they are only so aggressive... If it makes a big difference for you then stick with them, if you still have slow down, and you are running what you described before, you can probably get away running settings similar to what I posted, just don't have them set on boot just in case, if they don't work out you can always set them lower or back to a preset. It is definitely something you can expiriment with, if worst comes to worst, you can always reboot, but as long as you don't touch the first 4 values, you won't mess anything up, the worst that you will do with the last 2 is temporarly screw up facebook sync. or something similar, and really you can get away with changing the 4th value to, it just has a chance of affecting more things, but I doubt you'll end up affecting anything with values around 50 anyway. Like I said, experimenting never hurts, slow phones do... Just keep an eye on it ;-) good luck again.

To add a little correction.if you are running fly x then you are not running 2.3.15 you are running the earlier related release it Is based on. Even if you did have2.3.15 before installing it fly x over writes the system to the files it uses. All roms do. Do you actually have like 2.3.9 I think
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

It does say 2.3.9. I inquired about this before because I used teamblackhat to get .15 and the system never seemed to change to .15 every time I tried to download it... I guess that's why, because of flyx...
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

After reading Captian Taco's post I was eager to try it out, and its actually making a big difference =D thanks!

Yes it is... its been running much smoother and more responsive all day. Thanks again captaintaco... (boy thats kinda funny to type...)
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

Thanks CaptainTaco! Installed MFM to clear up my "lag" issues that are usually experienced in the evenings after a reset first thing in the a.m. each day. Before MFM it wasn't a huge deal to do a reset to clear up the issue, but I much prefer it to just work right all the time.

pduboise said:
Thanks CaptainTaco! Installed MFM to clear up my "lag" issues that are usually experienced in the evenings after a reset first thing in the a.m. each day. Before MFM it wasn't a huge deal to do a reset to clear up the issue, but I much prefer it to just work right all the time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hey don't thank me, thank the creator of MFM, I'm pretty sure he was one of the first to discover the power of Androids integrated minimum memory management, if not the first. Just glad to share my discovery of his discovery haha. But yea, to be honest I don't even use a custom Rom anymore, it runs so quick just having that (thought it works even better in conjunction with your standard simplistic task killer such as "advanced task killer" just to kill apps in the foreground after you are done with them, since many apps don't include a way of closing themselves out...
I still try the custom Roms out and play around with them for the hell of it, but as for right now, I rely heavily on corporate integration, and most of the good blurless Roms remove features required for true and proper corporate sync, such as calender sync and the like... and I just don't like touchdown pro... So this helps me out greatly... remove some bloat, throw launcher pro on there, and get this fix fired up, phone runs like a dream... now if only they could get exchange active sync running like it was on Sense... best implementation I have seen of Exchange active sync so far... I do miss that...

Well after all the advice I ended up installing the zapx rom last night. Wow! It is sooo fast... everything just responds and reacts so much faster than before. I suggest installing zapx to anyone. Best rom so far I think...
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App

linux patch that MASSIVELY improves smoothness

http://www.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_2637_video&num=1
This is a 200 line patch that according to linux was according to Linus the most impressive result of code that is elegant - 200 lines long - and should be wound into the phone linux as well
---- edit - and here is why it isnt going to be of any use for us...
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=822756&page=210
and the meat of it from bilboa1 :-
Originally Posted by giulio.alfano
Have you seen these? w_w_w.phoronix.com/scan.php?page=article&item=linux_2637_video&num=1
Phoronix(and Linus) say that is a miraculous 200 lines patch to increase interactivty? Can you consider the inclusion, of course if group scheduling in android 2.6.32 kernel is compatible?
the process groups are created per tty, that wont work on android
you can create process groups by hand however but it doesn't make a lot of sense for android in that case. the goal is to have some intensive tasks into their own group, but theres no intensive tasks and we don't have issues like audio or video lagging
their tweak is especially good if you run a compilation in the background and want to browse the web while waiting without having slow downs.
on android if you browse the web you dont have other cpu heavy tasks in progress usually (like encoding a video or what not)
i hope that was clear enough

I've off works urlaub would bei awesome
Where are the developers, who can say, if it works?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using my Brain

Wouldnt get too excited,phoronix is like the sun of linux news
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

Already discussed - its useless on phone. Phone will be even slower.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

dupel said:
Already discussed - its useless on phone. Phone will be even slower.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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Lets save statements like these after it has been actually tested.

KhaaL said:
Lets save statements like these after it has been actually tested.
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Click to collapse
Not everything needs to be tested. If you make a program to draw a circle, it wont make a square, let alone cook eggs. (it's the case for this patch at the technical level, beyond the "wow" words from 1st post)
Note: there's other patches in 2.6.37 for responsiveness which are different from the one spoken about here which are actually likely to improve things. But probably not as drastic.

dupel said:
Already discussed - its useless on phone. Phone will be even slower.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Got any links to where I can find out what you know?
I was *hoping* that if it made desktops much more responsive under heavy loadings that it would help with the phone - its not like we have slow cpu's in these things Or is it cpu architecture that allows the improvments and the phones just are not compatible? or something else?
just wanting to know more and to hopefully get a dev who thinks its worth taking a look to see - 200 lines of code - *cof* (ducks behind armour) "how hard could it be?" *runs for cover*
i get this sinking feeling from the subtle - and not so subtle comments from you guys tho - that its just not really suited for how android works on a phone....

cbdrift said:
Got any links to where I can find out what you know?
I was *hoping* that if it made desktops much more responsive under heavy loadings that it would help with the phone - its not like we have slow cpu's in these things Or is it cpu architecture that allows the improvments and the phones just are not compatible? or something else?
just wanting to know more and to hopefully get a dev who thinks its worth taking a look to see - 200 lines of code - *cof* (ducks behind armour) "how hard could it be?" *runs for cover*
i get this sinking feeling from the subtle - and not so subtle comments from you guys tho - that its just not really suited for how android works on a phone....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read last 5 pages in hardcore kernel topic.

knowing one and the other about linux, I have to disagree with those who say: it's gonna make your phone slower..
why? in linux, things constantly run in the background. and what this patch does, is give priority to foreground processes. True, there isn't MUCH in the background, so results may not be super, but the compile with 64 threads is just AN EXAMPLE of what it can do. That's the PERFECT situation to demonstrate. This doesn't mean that it sucks for everything else! It just means that it works
So stop *****ing and just test it before you start yapping that it's bad, doesn't work on phones etc... There is no right and wrong here, there is just: test it and see if it works!
i'd like to have a REAL technical discussion with these people here that are so-called experts... Because their arguments (excusez-le-mot) SUCK.
so please adapt your first post, because what they are saying is just guessing and not based on experiments nor experience, which renders it completely useless
Just my 2 cents

dupel said:
Already discussed - its useless on phone. Phone will be even slower.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
discussion is worthless, you can't convince me with some "maybe this, possibly that", if you say it's useless: give hard numbers or (sorry, but...) stfu!

UPDATE:
i've been reading up on the lkml and i think there are some very interesting possibilities here...
What this program does, is put the tty-bound processes in a special cgroup. While this is done automatically, there is also a possibility to just do the same in userspace. (check Lennart from redhat's solution).
It basicly creates a different cgroup for foreground processes, he does it in the bash profile. But i think that with this in mind, we can create cgroup handler for our "most important" apps to make them more responsive!
I've been looking into hardcore's kernel and it already has cgroup support built in, so it's actually just a matter of using it properly
how? check lennart's comments further in the lkml thread because you have to look out to clean up cgroups when no more processes use it.
Anyway, when properly tuned, it should be even better than the kernel patch people talked about!

These type of changes would suit more underpowered devices like the Hero or G1 but imho I dont know why the galaxy S needs it, my IO after applying OCLF is 2300+ apps, any lag issues are not due to the current modded kernels available as they are really good..

Idk why people don't understand simple things
cgroups does not magically makes your apps more responsive. It makes groups of processes which are scheduled together at the same level instead of doing it per process.
So, the group of "make" processes during a make -j64 get all globally a lower share of resources (than if they weren't grouped), allowing the group "browser" process to get enough resources to be smooth.
Without, each make process (64 of them) would get an equal resource time, which would also be equal to the browser, which ends up not being very nice for the desktop.
Now on the phone.. do you have a make -j64 running [IN THE BACKGROUND]? nope. do you have an heavy process or group of processes running [IN THE BACKGROUND]? nope.
Your front task is always the one taking most resources. If you put it in a group you might even decrease it's performance and responsiveness.
It's a double edged sword. You see, when they schedule the make -j64 process group, your browser is smooth but the make -j 64 process group is *slower*.
So unless a group of processes on the phone are taking too much cpu (i know of none doing that unless they're on the foreground), it's useless

bilboa1 said:
Idk why people don't understand simple things
cgroups does not magically makes your apps more responsive. It makes groups of processes which are scheduled together at the same level instead of doing it per process.
So, the group of "make" processes during a make -j64 get all globally a lower share of resources (than if they weren't grouped), allowing the group "browser" process to get enough resources to be smooth.
Without, each make process (64 of them) would get an equal resource time, which would also be equal to the browser, which ends up not being very nice for the desktop.
Now on the phone.. do you have a make -j64 running [IN THE BACKGROUND]? nope. do you have an heavy process or group of processes running [IN THE BACKGROUND]? nope.
Your front task is always the one taking most resources. If you put it in a group you might even decrease it's performance and responsiveness.
It's a double edged sword. You see, when they schedule the make -j64 process group, your browser is smooth but the make -j 64 process group is *slower*.
So unless a group of processes on the phone are taking too much cpu (i know of none doing that unless they're on the foreground), it's useless
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very true... that's why it still might be possible to group "your current task" and "all the rest". That (might) give you an advantage still...
and as said: i'm not saying it IS better, i'm saying it might be worth testing
hence the suggestion i put in post 11: make something that puts the application you start in foreground in a dedicated group and EVERYTHING else in another. When you background that process, move it to the "pool" group
it might just help!! (so... don't shoot the idea too soon )

V6 Supercharger

So do you guys use it and what does it exactly do? And also what does 3g turbocharger and kick ass kernel tweak do?

Basically everytime the memory drops below the thresholds set by v6, the system will start killing of apps running in the background which frees up memory that you most probably aren't using, Im currently on the aggressive settings so everytime my memory drops below 150mb the system starts killing apps. Its basically just tweaking the internal task killer to be slightly more aggressive. It also locks the launcher so the system cannot kill it if the memory drops too low.
The 3g tweaks, I think adjust or add some settings to the build.prop which supposedly make it faster although I haven't noticed much difference with that and the kernel tweaks I'm not too sure where the changes are made but again I don't see a great change from it. Definitely recommend v6 supercharger though.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium

Scratch0805 said:
Basically everytime the memory drops below the thresholds set by v6, the system will start killing of apps running in the background which frees up memory that you most probably aren't using, Im currently on the aggressive settings so everytime my memory drops below 150mb the system starts killing apps.
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Click to collapse
Great. Let's take 150MiB of RAM and then don't do anything useful with it. Processes aren't supposed to be killed unless you actually run out of memory.
Scratch0805 said:
It also locks the launcher so the system cannot kill it if the memory drops too low.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That seems innocent, but it won't help you if the launcher has a memory leak. If the launcher kept getting killed, it was telling you that your low memory thresholds are too high. Under normal circumstances, the launcher won't get killed. But if it grows too much, it'll get killed and the OS won't crash.
When you force close an application through the application manager, it shows you a warning. There's a reason for that (exactly what it says). And since Android 2.2, the framework can take care of itself just fine. No need for any 3rd party task killers.

Lol..... Thought you'd have something to say on it, actually mate the way my phone is usually setup there is nothing running in the background to kill anyway, thanks to autostarts I only have apps running that I need and make sure that I close things properly after use, so it really doesn't matter which settings I use whether they be low such as 30mb before it starts killing the first lot of empty apps or high such as 150mb as my setup rarely drops below because there is only the bare minimum running in the first place.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium

Allright, it's not that RAM would slowly wear and tear by using it but at least you're not buying that it's better for performance. And I just wonder how these apps are made, as a thought experiment to figure out the mindset of whoever wrote this task killer.
...So let's make an app which looks real cool and doesn't do anything useful in particular! Wait, no one would download that! Hmm... Oh, I know! Let's call it "V6 Supercharger"! Yeah, that sounds awesome! Now people will download it for sure! It's the coolest thing since sliced bread!
It's the same with those programs like "Registry Booster". How did that happen? Someone must've woke up one day, turned on his PC, started poking in the registry, saw lots of keys which aren't really strictly necessary but are there anyway and thought like "Hmm, what if I made a program which removes all these unneeded keys? MS-Windows would be ZOMG faster!!111eleventyone". Then made it look real slick with a custom skin and a speedometer showing progress and say at the end that the registry has been "boosted". And since this guy is such a nice fellow, he threw in some extra free toolbars into the mix as well. Users always appreciate having more toolbars to click on and agreements to ignore.
Ok, I'll stop ranting now. Enjoy your week

Try explaining that to the dev who created it here. Honestly, it would be better, because, I am pretty sure most members here are not as technically inclined as you.:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=991276

You're just setting him up so I can tear him apart... aren't you?
The poor bastard doesn't even know what it is... he thinks it's a task killer app... heh

No, I would like him to discuss all the technical aspects with you. Because, clearly, he's wasting his effort as a developer here educating non-technical people like me, and the majority here on the Wildfire Forums.
And before you accuse me of trying to set people up, I can assure you I have nothing against you / your script or anything. Rather, I have used your script, and came away impressed with it.

I know you you weren't doing anything like that... I'm always putting down these clowns that think that suffocating the phone is good... idiots lol
Like I say, what the hell good is phone if you can't make a call because of some crap hogging the ram?
Besides, I doubt very much he has any technical skills at all... like I said before, he doesn't even know what it is so he's not very techinical

dud3me said:
what does it exactly do?
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Click to collapse
It makes you feel good.
And I definitely noticed a 0.00001ms speed difference when opening apps.

Another liar

zeppelinrox said:
Another liar
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Click to collapse
Yeah lol. Most people in this forum are wannabe developers who know **** about developing but they like to act like they do. Apart from few people who actually know stuff and the others like me who acknowledge the fact that we don't know anything

Fact is, those who know they don't know learn more than those that think they know it all
Less than a year ago, I knew 0 about android.
And when I started the supercharger script, I knew nothing about linux scripting.
Just started off with a few commands and everytime I wanted to try something new or add something... I googled it up.
And I'm still figuring it out.
For example, I set my 256mb device to have 25mb free with the number I use in slot 3.
So whatever memory tool I use will show I have 25 or 30mb free... great - that's what I want
But when I was doing up the recent update and enhanced the Fast Engine Flush, I wanted to show before and after using the "free" command.
To my surprise, system tuner shows that I have 30mb free while the free command shows I have only 5mb free!
So what's that mean? Why that difference of 25mb?
It means that all that "free ram" is actually being used for cache.
And it's giving me speed
So to those that think it's great to have ram clogged with apps when the system is starving for space to use for cache...
BOOYA!

Really have trouble using your scripts and I think after enabling 3gturbotweak thing my 2g data isn't working haven't tried 3g.

I can't recall it affecting 2g... so I assume 2g used to work (I don't get 2g - it's unavailable)
But if you unturbocharge, the 2g/3g goes back to normal, no?

zeppelinrox said:
I can't recall it affecting 2g... so I assume 2g used to work (I don't get 2g - it's unavailable)
But if you unturbocharge, the 2g/3g goes back to normal, no?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well I had to format system data and cache and wiped everything and now it's working again so I'm not completely sure if it was the turbocharge thing.

The idea that you can magically "supercharge" your OS by freeing up memory is fundamentally flawed.
what the hell good is phone if you can't make a call because of some crap hogging the ram
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Click to collapse
If this is really a problem on your phone, you're doing it wrong. I haven't done anything to free up ram and the amount of ram available on my wildfire is currently 108,48MiB. I start 10 random apps, Angry Birds, and Angry Birds Rio. 40,68MiB still free. I start Angry Birds Seasons and end up with 49,66MiB free and 9 apps died, including the first angry birds. Running out of ram is in general not a failure mode of Android and at no point was I unable to place a call. I close the 2 remaining open instances of Angry Birds the normal back-button way, 147,68MiB free.
I'm always putting down these clowns that think that suffocating the phone is good... idiots lol
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just wanted to quote that.
And when I started the supercharger script, I knew nothing about linux scripting.
Just started off with a few commands and everytime I wanted to try something new or add something... I googled it up.
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Click to collapse
That's exactly the impression I had. Now take it from someone who has run Linux both embedded and on his desktop for the past 12 years. Your app doesn't improve anything, and I'd be glad to be proven wrong because you would've actually made a discovery we can use to improve Android and Linux with. From your post I understand it you change vm kernel parameters such that the oom killer is invoked sooner. This is actually detrimental to the stability of the OS, the oom killer is only meant to be invoked as a _last_resort_. The Android framework has its own means to free up memory, including calling onLowMemory in any application and doing a gc run. This does not cause instability and is completely transparent to the user. I've only ever had to manually kill applications in a broken state and others for debugging purposes, which is why the Force Close button exists.
It means that all that "free ram" is actually being used for cache.
And it's giving me speed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If the output looks anything like this:
Code:
total used free shared buffers cached
Mem: 3456 3325 131 0 10 93
-/+ buffers/cache: 3221 235
Then you've just never bothered to look. You can clearly see in the second line it makes a calculation for you which is exactly what it says in the leftmost column. And of course completely disregard the fact that cached pages are invalidated on a write (marked dirty) and reads from an mtd are really fast already anyway.
So to those that think it's great to have ram clogged with apps when the system is starving for space to use for cache
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is not how it works! For starters, ram cannot be "clogged". A drain pipe can be clogged but ram is made of digital circuitry, not plumbing. And second, there is no resource starvation in the page cache. It's just an old optimisation to keep data pages in memory for longer to serve repeated reads and give them back whenever they're needed for something else. More apps in ram can actually mean less reads are necessary because the data is already there (especially if you tend to switch between recent apps). Since Android 3.0, application developers are encouraged to use Loaders which cause filesystem I/O to be performed on a background thread. And applications which actually use the available ram always trump applications designed to use as little ram possible in performance. Between a collection of loaded objects and a cached filesystem, the collection always wins. You have 256 to 512 MiB of RAM in a typical Android device. The average application is 18 to 30 MiB. It can manage. Especially when you consider the fact that the UI only shows 1 task at a time and pressing the back button usually destroys the activity you were in. The gc takes care of its remains.
Now here's something which will actually improve write speeds on /data: Open up settings, applications, manage applications. Sort by size. Remove the biggest apps you don't need and move the rest to SD if you can (you can use "pm setInstallLocation 2" as root to move non-froyo-aware apps to SD). I've been using the market a lot lately so I just removed aDosBox, Albert Heijn, PocketCloud, Pulse and moved Dolphin Browser to SD which meant 47.25MiB free on /data. On a 175MiB partition, 30% of it is about 52MiB so I'd try to keep the available space around 50MiB. If your phone is low on storage, doing this will perceivably improve performance.

dud3me said:
Well I had to format system data and cache and wiped everything and now it's working again so I'm not completely sure if it was the turbocharge thing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same thing happened to me, but every time i turned 3g on the phone rebooted and i got stuck in a bootloop, i had to use the ruu update to restore phone.
I would stay away from the network tweaks. It doesnt improve speed anyway.
Sent from my HTC Wildfire using xda premium

henkdv said:
The idea that you can magically "supercharge" your OS by freeing up memory is fundamentally flawed.If this is really a problem on your phone, you're doing it wrong. I haven't done anything to free up ram and the amount of ram available on my wildfire is currently 108,48MiB. I start 10 random apps, Angry Birds, and Angry Birds Rio. 40,68MiB still free. I start Angry Birds Seasons and end up with 49,66MiB free and 9 apps died, including the first angry birds. Running out of ram is in general not a failure mode of Android and at no point was I unable to place a call. I close the 2 remaining open instances of Angry Birds the normal back-button way, 147,68MiB free.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All that you said is very informative.
What are your minfrees?
Set them to something like 6, 12, 16, 18, 26, 30.
Run a bunch of apps...
See how great it runs then
Fact of the matter is, user's with 1GB ram devices notice a real improvement.
Not placebo.
Pressing the home or back button has an instant effect without hesitation - which indeed happens on stock roms.
Yes in theory I'm sure it all makes sense and I apologize for using layman's terms such as "clogging".
An android phone is not a Linux PC so I believe it's not a great idea to configure it like it is a Linux PC.
They have difference purposes.
Anyway, in theory, a bumble bee can't fly - but it does.