Database Users

HD is over-rated ?

OK at the risk of starting a flame war I want to ask for some objective feedback on the HD. I tried the HD in a shop today for about 20 minutes and I was quite disappointed. (I have a HTC tytn so I used my experience over the last 18 months with that as a reference.). My brief conclusions
(a) The screen is big with a lot of detail as everyone says but its not as bright as the iPhone, G1 or blackberry Storm. Also the blacks are a bit murky so the constrast is not as good as the iPhone, G1 or the Storm.
(b) The interface felt very "laggy" with lots of freezing. (I've subsequently found a thread here on XDA-Developers where there are many compaints of freezes for several seconds - the unit I tried in the shop belonged to the Sales guy and had been up and running in less than 1 day with nothing extra installed on it - I ended up showing the sales guy how to do some things ! ) Certainly TF3D was no way as "slick" as the iPhone or the G1. When trying to browse the web the HD I perfered the G1 when if on the HD I could see more !
(c) One of my requirements is basic operations should be possible with one hand. The lack of hardware buttons and a D-pad / trackball or scroller seems to make that difficult? For example, it was difficult to take a decent close up picture of someone as you have to press the screen which moves the HD and so causes a loss of focus. On the third attempt I gave up trying to take a decent picture.
(d) For such a big screen TF3D makes inefficient use of the screen. I was particularly disappointed with the music player. I got the impression that rather than focus on functionality HTC really wanted to make things look good.
Overall I was dissappointed. I really want to get rid of my Wm5 based Tytn but it looks like I might have to look at something else
Please convince me otherwise !
Can those of you who've had real experience (I.e. for than a couple of days - where you are in the honeymoon period) provide some feedback on the HD?

not going to convince you to change. i suggest you stick with the Tytn and you'll save yourself a lot of second guessing and heart ache. based on a-d above, the HD is not for you.

I played with the iPhone for 20 minutes and hated it... But when I tried the HD for about 20 minutes I loved it.

What the hek every now and then someone comes and start his own comparison of HD to Iphone!!!!
IPHONE for many of us is Cr***ap ...

You have already started the thread by painting such as prefect picture of iPhone. If your requirements are better met by that, just go get yourself an iPhone. Everyone person's requirements are different. For me, iPhone does not meet my need and HD does. If you want to know why, go to this thread and read every post there by myself.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443900

No point in flaming him (I have an Hermes as well and have a lot of questions about HD vs Touch Pro for instance)
It is really interesting to read people's opinion, may it be positive or negative to help many potential users chose with all cards in hand

Stick with your TyTn .... and wait for the next year 2009 devices.
For sure HD broughr fresh blood to the WinMo device, but thats not enough.
I am pretty sure, 2009 will be very interesting for mobile device (WinMo 6.5, Tegra?)

I have N95 for 15 Months and i thought i would never change phone again till iPhone 3G came out so i decided to upgrade.
At the same time my brother just bought Touch Diamond and I have to admit that I really hate the Diamond since the first few mins of playing with it. Laggy.. Sloppy.. Jerky.. Slowly.. Whatever u called it, Diamond has it all.
But now my brother decide to get a Touch HD, hoping that it will lift up our feeling some way some how, and he is right.
He got a phone last week and i have to say.. "It is in a different league with the iPhone"
Now i have to order another one for myself. Hope it will arrive soon ^^

Sorry but you are not right
By the way - the iPhone is indeed better because of the better OS
But also the HF Screen has not such a good contrast and has moires from different view angles ...
when you work for some days with the HD the iPhone screen shows pixels.
The HD screnn with th perfect resolution is much smoother
The HTC Touchflow SW is after a long time on devices quite fast ans very good ( not as good as iPhone OS ) - the only lag is that many functions are missing and HTC does not offer updates regularly to older devices.

annoying & ridiculous...
sorry ... BUT it really IS annoying to read so many threads where people are just complaining that the HD 'doesnt meet this and that and...' - whats the use in it ?! Everyone needs different things in a device, you wouldn't want my kind of shoes or trousers or car or whatever!!
So I don't give a s*** what anybody else has to say about the HD - I tested it for MYSELF, I found it to be excellent for me, I bought it two weeks ago, I do lots of flatrate-HSDPA'ing, business use 12 hours/day, permanent exchange sncy'ing, blablabla...my HD truely rocks. Simply said: theres nothing *I* miss - if you do, buy something you like.

First of all. Thanks for the feedback so far. I'm sorry that some of you seem to be overly defensive. What I am trying to get to the bottom of is that my short experience of the HD is at odds with the many many reviews of the HD on the web.
There are endless comparsions with the iPhone but I don't recall any mentioning the screen being not as bright or that the HD has a very "laggy" interface. The point is that the reviews hold up the iphone as the benchmark and generally give the impression that the HD is close in terms of touch sensitivity and better in terms of screen. I was therefore surprised when i got my hands on a unit to not get that impression in those areas. I am aware of the fact that the Iphone can't multi-task, has no FM radio, has locked down applications, video recording problems, poor support for MS office attachments etc etc. So I'm not that interested in it - its too restricted for me!
So what I'm trying to understand is why my, albeit, short experience is different.
So the questions remains guys.
Can you load a theme or change a setting to change the way the screen looks ?
(EagleSteve - I'm just reading that 49 page thread you refered to and I note the äuthor of the thread states - "I think Touchflo is just too "black" for me, not sure if it will run with a brighter skin or not, but I like the way PocketPlus makes a device look, much brighter" - So that suggests a possible fix to my concern of the screen being not as bright as I expected)
Is the lack of hardware buttons actually a problem or does the large touch screen make it a non issue in practice?
Do you have laggy behaviour ? Is there some App or setting which everyone loads to get rid of the "laggy" behaviour? For the me the real show-stopper is probably the laggy behaviour - I need to know how much of a problem it is in practice.
Thanks for the feedback

I don't know... my unit isn't laggy at all, tflo is flying, the only issue I have is about video playback. But this is going to be solved with the next CorePlayer release, I hope.

owen.cullum said:
[...]
Do you have laggy behaviour ? Is there some App or setting which everyone loads to get rid of the "laggy" behaviour? For the me the real show-stopper is probably the laggy behaviour - I need to know how much of a problem it is in practice.
Thanks for the feedback
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The laggy behaviour obviously depends on what ROM you have.
I for myself do not experience lags on my device.
EDIT: As for the themes. Giznetic has already made some. Check out this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=451731

I dont get it.
Is the lack of hardware buttons actually a problem or does the large touch screen make it a non issue in practice?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
U seems to like the iPhone so much but y u worry about this issue? It seems like u trying to point out that Touch HD lack of D-Pad and button so its useless.
What about iPhone? 1 lonely button is that enuff for u?
sigh..

Hi Owen,
Well I'm not a HD user, I actually have a raphael. but my experience with this device was similar to yours when I first got it. In my experience my device was very laggy to start with. I ended up downloading a ROM and the speed is beautiful, I'm sure the HD will have the same and when this device is around as long as the raphael you will have some amazing ROMs if you already don't. Although it does frustrate me that our performance issues have to be solve by personal developers (who by the way do a marvellous job). So if you are happy flashing a ROM you will certainly get to a point you are happy with in regards to performance. it may however take you some time to do so
In regards to the button aspect, which was going to be my primary focus, the raphael has a few more buttons and a scroll wheel device. Having the extra buttons is frustrating, I have only had minimal (if any) use for them and only feel like they take up room on the device. If you are happy to not have a keyboard I wouldn't be too concerned on the lack of buttons.
Cheers
TT

kids phone
there is nothing called iphone sorry buy its the kids phone, who said better os? if so why great apple went for exchnage ???gps but no application wow, 3g but u cant create 2 way video call so there is no compaison if u want to make u kids happy go for kids phone

owen.cullum said:
Please convince me otherwise !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No thanks
I bought the HD because I was sure it was the right device to answer my needs. One month after I'm still convinced it was a good choice.
But I'm even more convinced that there's just no interest in trying to convince other users that my phone is the one they need.
A consequence is the following: I'm not interested in being convinced that the HD was not good enough for me

The Touch HD has a very bright screen. Did you alter the settings, to turn off automatic backlight?
I don't find my HD laggy at all especially with the tweak that optimises the cache. Even out of the box I didn't find the HD laggy. Afterall it's only a phone and not your desktop PC...

Screen looks nice enough in my opinion. I can't convince you that it isn't over rated as after having one for a few weeks I feel it is nothing special.
For the people that say there is no point complaining, this is true if you don't own one I suppose. Although if a person did buy one because of the hype and it doesn't live up to it then I think they have every right to say why they feel they don't like it. I spent 500 quid on mine and I should be able to criticise things about it I don't like at that point.
If a person is happy with his device that's great but others that don't share that feeling are entitled to their views too.

Like I said, each has his own need and preference, so I can only summarise for you who iphone is not worthy of comparison to hd from my viewpoint only.
1. I like the hd screen and not iphone screen: because HD screen has the right level of sensitivity and supports stylus. Stylus is a critical requirements not only it is more user friendly to me, but also because it supports hand writing. Screen brightness of HD is completely adequate under bright sunlight.
2. I need availability of tomtom or similar software. Iphone does not have an acceptable navigation software.
3 I need desktop class word, spreadsheet, and presentation editing software, which iphone doesn't have.
4.I need better software keyboard than that iphone offer and winmo platform offers that.
5.I cannot live with iphone's battery design because I'd been stuck without battery. I do not want the bulk of a mobile charger.
6. the breath and depth of software in iphone is still not there yet.
7. I prefer HD's bigger screen.
8. I like having more buttons in HD rather than just one in iphone.
9. I like being able to customise. You don't like black? No problem. Use something like spb mobile shell, or change the skin and background of tf3d.
10.I like to have lots of choices when come to firmware or ROM. You don't have that with iphone. The ability to improve is very limited.
11.I like FM radio, I like cut and paste, I like all the little things which HD can do and iphone can't.
I like the build quality of iphone. I like it's browser. I like it's smoothness in displaying web pages more than Opera mobile. I like its multimedia capability.
I almost got an iphone.
For me, iphone is a very sexy women, and the temptation to marry her is great. But if I want someone who can manage the household, bring up the kids well, wise with finance, and kind to people, HD is the plain Jane whom can deliver.

My iPhone experience

I am the proud owner of a HTC touch HD phone, and a very happy owner too. I got it just before Christmas, and it is currently running on Duttys rom, 2.6. All in all my best phone so far.
As many, I have always looked upon the iPhone as one of the absolute best phones ever made, in my opinion it more or less revolutionized how we look upon a phone’s capabilities. However, since I have never had an iPhone, I found it hard to argument for or against it. Therefore I have bought one (used), which will arrive by mail within the next few days. When I get it, I will use it for a month and keep posting here how it goes and how it performs compared to the touch HD. Why do I do this? Because I’m curious, and because I want to see what all the hype is about, and most of all, i hate the fact that everyone is *****ing about which product is the best, but only a few has actually had and used the two phones for a longer period of time.
So far I bought the phone (iPhone 3g), and I am waiting for it to arrive. I must say the wait is long I have downloaded iTunes, so all I’m waiting for right now, is the phone itself.
Besides the normal things you do with a phone (calling, sms), I daily use my touch HD for web browsing, email correspondence and video and music. All of which performs perfectly (thank you coreplayer ). So this is what I plan to use the iPhone for, since touch HD is a windows mobile phone, I rely upon activesync to take care of my outlook contacts and calendar notes, we’ll see how well iTunes does this.
I also like the fact that it is so easy to get what you want with windows mobile, mostly through you guys here at xda.
When the phone arrives I’ll post my first experiences.
Update: 15-4-2009
It'll arrive tomorrow. Thanks for all the replys
Update 17-4-2009
First impressions
So i’ve used the phone for all in all 5-6 hours so far, so I can only tell you about my first impressions. I had some problems getting my music from my pc to the phone, it turned out that you have to enable music synchronization in itunes, in order to get anything transferred to the phone. First thing I did was to transfer my music through explorer (drag and drop), more or less the exact same way as with touch hd, this isn’t allowed, so I had to go through itunes, convert all my music, find out how to get it from itunes to the phone, before I could listen to music. In all in all much more difficult than I had believed, but now I know how it works, so hopefully this won’t be an issue in the future. I can see the problem for those who has many more songs than I had on my laptop, it’s takes a long time to convert to the itunes format, so this would be a major drawback. Why can’t I just put my mp3’s directly on the phone?
This being said, I really like the flow on the phone, the framerate compared to touch hd, is better, giving a better feel. However, I’ve been a bit annoyed by the sensitivity of the screen; it probably takes some getting used to.
Finally, when I used the phone this morning in my way to work, I had some issues with the 3G connection. My touch hd has no problems what so ever when I am using to surf and check mails and so on, the iphone used 3G for 3 minutes, and then I found myself browsing using edge, which is in my opinion is not an option. This is something that will be an annoyance if it keeps up (I’m hoping it was a onetime only).
As for the browsing itself, iphone surpasses the touch hd. Opera is simply to slow compared to safari, but if I can’t get a proper connection, there really is no choice.
One thing that really impressed though was the app store. All though you have to put in your credit card information in order to create an account, it is really easy to browse through all the apps, find what you like and install it. And there really are many different and funny apps, which all in all lifts the overall user value.
I’ll return in next week with more views. Thanks for all the responses
04-05-2009
The first many days.
Hey, sorry for the delay. Been busy at work, but finally found some time to write some more. I have had and used the phone for quite some time by now, it performs as expected. All though I begin to see the small bugs, which most people forget to mention when recommending the iphone. I read somewhere that the iPhone simply “just works”. That is not entirely true, yes I have never had a smartphone that performs as well as the iPhone, it has the least amounts of crashes and so on. However, to say that it simply works, is wrong. When I browse the web, safari hangs on every load, so you have to wait for the entire page to load until you start navigating. Furthermore the video player used in safari has a tendency to hang a lot when you are viewing a longer video, and especially if wifi is turned on. But still, the browser is the best mobile browser so far. Opera hangs/stalls/dies a lot too, and of the two browsers, I prefer safari. There’s still a long way to go until web browsing on the mobile is perfect.
The phone itself has rebooted three times, one time in a game and the two other times it just stalled and went black. Odd… Again if I compare to touch hd, it is more or less the same. My touch hd also died a lot of times, and the one thing that annoyed me most on a windows mobile device, is the fact that the memory isn’t flushed correctly. To many times you have to do a hard reboot, in order to get the memory cleared and to get good performance again.
I mentioned the connection problems earlier, or the lack of connection… Well it hasn’t improved, when you are traveling, the phone looses connection so many times it’s a major problem. Sometimes safari stops working when the connection is lost. Damn, that annoys me… So why don’t you just use wifi? Because with wifi turned on, the battery is used up in no time at all. This brings me to the next issue: The battery. I have to charge the phone one time every day, even with wifi turned off. “Then you use the phone a lot” you might say, and the answer would be: “yes I do, but that’s what the iphone is all about…”. If you don’t use the iphone for all the things that are so nice on the phone, why use it at all. I listen to music, surf the web, check emails, and play games on it daily. And this results in a charge a day. So all in all, the battery performance is poor. Furthermore if you are playing a game, and receive a phonecall, the game is shut down, without save, stupid…
This brings me to the app store, this is the one thing that makes me praise the iPhone. Yes we have the same on windows mobile, but not so approachable and comprehensive. Installing a game or a program could be much much easier on winmo. There is only one big flaw in the app store, if you are connected through 3G, there is a max on 10 mb per download. So if you find a game that’s larger than 10 mb, you have to wait to download it. Why??? 10 mb on 3g shouldn’t be a problem… By the way, you gotta love the facebook app… All though you can’t connect a contact to its facebook profile, it’s still a nice app
The GPS is not entirely accurate, but still usable. I won’t say that much about the gps since I don’t use it allot. And google maps is more or less the same as on touch hd.
The last thing: I saw many movies on touch HD. I have ripped many of my dvd’s and converted them to divx. On touch hd you just transfer the movie to the phone and you can see it. On iphone I have to convert it to some stupid format in order to see it. I hate having movies in so many different formats, and hate to rely upon itunes.
I’ll write a new post in the near future, and as for the guy who commented on my description on to much sensitivity: Sorry, but that’s just my experience of the phone 

Samoht2003 said:
I am the proud owner of a HTC touch HD phone, and a very happy owner too. I got it just before Christmas, and it is currently running on Duttys rom, 2.6. All in all my best phone so far.
As many, I have always looked upon the iPhone as one of the absolute best phones ever made, in my opinion it more or less revolutionized how we look upon a phone’s capabilities. However, since I have never had an iPhone, I found it hard to argument for or against it. Therefore I have bought one (used), which will arrive by mail within the next few days. When I get it, I will use it for a month and keep posting here how it goes and how it performs compared to the touch HD. Why do I do this? Because I’m curious, and because I want to see what all the hype is about, and most of all, i hate the fact that everyone is *****ing about which product is the best, but only a few has actually had and used the two phones for a longer period of time.
So far I bought the phone (iPhone 3g), and I am waiting for it to arrive. I must say the wait is long I have downloaded iTunes, so all I’m waiting for right now, is the phone itself.
Besides the normal things you do with a phone (calling, sms), I daily use my touch HD for web browsing, email correspondence and video and music. All of which performs perfectly (thank you coreplayer ). So this is what I plan to use the iPhone for, since touch HD is a windows mobile phone, I rely upon activesync to take care of my outlook contacts and calendar notes, we’ll see how well iTunes does this.
I also like the fact that it is so easy to get what you want with windows mobile, mostly through you guys here at xda.
When the phone arrives I’ll post my first experiences.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking forward to hear your experinces

Yep look forward to it!
Not sure it was revolutionary... the LG Prada was a full touch screen phone before the iPhone.. Apple just packaged it well... Steve jobs could box a turd and sell it. pretty much like Apples claim on the mouse! That was actually Xerox's baby!

Looking forward to your experience and an honest review / comparison between the 2!

I actually have both (HTC Touch HD and iPhone 3g), too

Yeah, waiting to see your comments...

We are talking about Apples & Oranges here!!! Arent we?

the real great things on the iphone are aps! they are realy cool, good looking, running smooth... but only one at a time with a verry bad cam and no mms... (yet )
if it had a better cam, MMS (soon) eand a real GPS (and GPS software) i would defintly forget my HD!

way to go pal, will be glad to read your reviews.

bouyaka said:
the real great things on the iphone are aps! they are realy cool, good looking, running smooth... but only one at a time with a verry bad cam and no mms... (yet )
if it had a better cam, MMS (soon) eand a real GPS (and GPS software) i would defintly forget my HD!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh my.
Jesus phone has a lot of shortcomings, but MMS? Who cares? It's the silliest thing since plastic toothpick. Why do you want to pay your operator for this surrogate email?
And do you really consider HD's camera usable?

daraj said:
We are talking about Apples & Oranges here!!! Arent we?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really.... I'll explain...
I've just sold my iPhone 3G and bought a HD. My reasons were...
1) I get bored and I had the iPhone since last July and fancied a change
2) I wanted expandable memory
3) I think the iPhone is looking dated now. Controversial I'm sure...
4) I now want stereo Bluetooth streaming for a new iO Play car kit I have had fitted
I used to change phones far too often and had 13 in a year once, but the iPhone is the longest serving handset I've had for a while. Despite not being bleeding edge when it comes to the specification, the way you interact with it, the simplicity, the fluidity and the Apple ecosystem all added up to make it a revolutionary phone. There is a reason why every new touch-screen phone is an iPhone killer.
The email client is superb, web browsing superb and media playback superb. And the text inputs auto-correction is very intelligent and doesn't just look out for spelling mistakes, but patterns in typing which it relates to possible words.
The App store is great, but getting full of rubbish making the genuinely useful stuff harder to find. Rumours are there will be a premier store soon. The O2 contracts are great, as the free data and free WiFi access are superbly implemented, switching between seamlessly. And once you've authenticated with the free WiFi once that's all you ever have to do. I could walk into a Starbucks, McDonalds, Costa, Hotel, Airport etc etc and it would connect to the WiFi before I even realised I was in a hotspot.
But it's not the Jesus phone everyone seems to think. And I hate, really, really hate the fan-boy love affair some people have with it... to the point I was embarrassed by it sometimes.
"No, I don't want to talk to you about your iPhone, stranger...."
The limitations in the iPhone are 75% software based, most of which will be corrected in version 3 of the software. Things like additional Bluetooth profiles, landscape text input in all apps, MMS, tethering etc will be welcome additions.
And that's one of the things that bothered me. These are simple things that really should be included as standard.
Things like the poor camera didn't bother me. I mean, Sony Ericsson have been putting rubbish cameras in phones they didn't market as imaging devices for years. If the camera is the main focus, there are much better options (like buying a camera).
The lack of expandable memory is a big deal for a multimedia phone though. I can understand the marketing / product reasons behind it, but even that seems to contradict the 'one device to do everything' approach Apple take with this.
Now to go back to my original point, Apples Vs Oranges, the HD and the iPhone aren't that different. Both have huge strengths, both have huge weaknesses, both have massive amounts in common. The thing that differs between them is down to the person buying it. What do you want from a phone....?
Out of the box usability and slickness? iPhone.
Endless tinkering, customisation and free reign of what you do with your phone? Touch HD
But both have the capability of matching the other in every single aspect. There is pretty much nothing that you can do with one that you can't with the other. Exactly the same can be said for Windows PC operating systems Vs Apple Mac OS X. Funnily enough, most of what I have said above can be applied in some way to that argument too.
So, the other downsides to the iPhone.... (some of this is entirely personal opinion).
Text input needs work in it's current form. The keys are just too small. This is made up by the excellent auto-correction, but it's still poor. And you can't add in new keyboards without jailbreaking, which brings me to..
Restrictive approach to third party applications. Apples closed-door approach has no benefits. I originally thought it would be good as it would ensure reliability and stability, but there are some terribly shaky applications in the App Store. I see no benefit in this for consumers and the only way around involves invalidating your warranty.
Hardware restrictions - No expandable memory, as above. Screen size Vs chassis size and screen resolution are falling behind the competition. Poor build quality is another factor that's not uncommon either.
If you are the kind of person who enjoys Windows Mobile, I predict you will get frustrated with the iPhones shortfalls and will be jailbreaking it within a day.

Robster83 said:
Not really.... I'll explain...
I've just sold my iPhone 3G and bought a HD. My reasons were...
1) I get bored and I had the iPhone since last July and fancied a change
2) I wanted expandable memory
3) I think the iPhone is looking dated now. Controversial I'm sure...
4) I now want stereo Bluetooth streaming for a new iO Play car kit I have had fitted
I used to change phones far too often and had 13 in a year once, but the iPhone is the longest serving handset I've had for a while. Despite not being bleeding edge when it comes to the specification, the way you interact with it, the simplicity, the fluidity and the Apple ecosystem all added up to make it a revolutionary phone. There is a reason why every new touch-screen phone is an iPhone killer.
The email client is superb, web browsing superb and media playback superb. And the text inputs auto-correction is very intelligent and doesn't just look out for spelling mistakes, but patterns in typing which it relates to possible words.
The App store is great, but getting full of rubbish making the genuinely useful stuff harder to find. Rumours are there will be a premier store soon. The O2 contracts are great, as the free data and free WiFi access are superbly implemented, switching between seamlessly. And once you've authenticated with the free WiFi once that's all you ever have to do. I could walk into a Starbucks, McDonalds, Costa, Hotel, Airport etc etc and it would connect to the WiFi before I even realised I was in a hotspot.
But it's not the Jesus phone everyone seems to think. And I hate, really, really hate the fan-boy love affair some people have with it... to the point I was embarrassed by it sometimes.
"No, I don't want to talk to you about your iPhone, stranger...."
The limitations in the iPhone are 75% software based, most of which will be corrected in version 3 of the software. Things like additional Bluetooth profiles, landscape text input in all apps, MMS, tethering etc will be welcome additions.
And that's one of the things that bothered me. These are simple things that really should be included as standard.
Things like the poor camera didn't bother me. I mean, Sony Ericsson have been putting rubbish cameras in phones they didn't market as imaging devices for years. If the camera is the main focus, there are much better options (like buying a camera).
The lack of expandable memory is a big deal for a multimedia phone though. I can understand the marketing / product reasons behind it, but even that seems to contradict the 'one device to do everything' approach Apple take with this.
Now to go back to my original point, Apples Vs Oranges, the HD and the iPhone aren't that different. Both have huge strengths, both have huge weaknesses, both have massive amounts in common. The thing that differs between them is down to the person buying it. What do you want from a phone....?
Out of the box usability and slickness? iPhone.
Endless tinkering, customisation and free reign of what you do with your phone? Touch HD
But both have the capability of matching the other in every single aspect. There is pretty much nothing that you can do with one that you can't with the other. Exactly the same can be said for Windows PC operating systems Vs Apple Mac OS X. Funnily enough, most of what I have said above can be applied in some way to that argument too.
So, the other downsides to the iPhone.... (some of this is entirely personal opinion).
Text input needs work in it's current form. The keys are just too small. This is made up by the excellent auto-correction, but it's still poor. And you can't add in new keyboards without jailbreaking, which brings me to..
Restrictive approach to third party applications. Apples closed-door approach has no benefits. I originally thought it would be good as it would ensure reliability and stability, but there are some terribly shaky applications in the App Store. I see no benefit in this for consumers and the only way around involves invalidating your warranty.
Hardware restrictions - No expandable memory, as above. Screen size Vs chassis size and screen resolution are falling behind the competition. Poor build quality is another factor that's not uncommon either.
If you are the kind of person who enjoys Windows Mobile, I predict you will get frustrated with the iPhones shortfalls and will be jailbreaking it within a day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I meant by that is the fact the HD is highly customizable to the bones, heck you can even run an Android OS on it. Iphone is a very closed OS with very little tweaks allowed by Apple ( Not talking about Jailbreaking) From the usability to the screen to the memory to the GPS vs A-GPS.. from the camera to almost everything in both phones are different. I consider the Iphone a weekend phone While the HD is a very business oriented phone that gets the job done and good.
Not sure If I can really say they are very similar. Just my 2 cents

daraj said:
What I meant by that is the fact the HD is highly customizable to the bones, heck you can even run an Android OS on it. Iphone is a very closed OS with very little tweaks allowed by Apple ( Not talking about Jailbreaking) From the usability to the screen to the memory to the GPS vs A-GPS.. from the camera to almost everything in both phones are different. I consider the Iphone a weekend phone While the HD is a very business oriented phone that gets the job done and good.
Not sure If I can really say they are very similar. Just my 2 cents
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's fair enough. But when you sit the two side-by-side and ask them to do the same task, there isn't much difference. If you think about what you do with your phone, I'd bet the HD does things in a very similar way to the iPhone. There are only so many ways to construct a text message, make a call or browse the internet on a touch screen mobile
The one big thing I didn't mention that you have just reminded me of, is the touch screen. The capacitive screen on the iPhone is much more responsive in use.

Robster83 said:
That's fair enough. But when you sit the two side-by-side and ask them to do the same task, there isn't much difference. If you think about what you do with your phone, I'd bet the HD does things in a very similar way to the iPhone. There are only so many ways to construct a text message, make a call or browse the internet on a touch screen mobile
The one big thing I didn't mention that you have just reminded me of, is the touch screen. The capacitive screen on the iPhone is much more responsive in use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup. WVGA on HD and VGA on Iphone ( Not sure if its even VGA)

pretty much it boils down to what you do with it. I have both devices. I use the HD and the iphone sits on the desk. I am an admin at my company and we are windows based the windows mobile device it the best phone for us. While I like the Iphone it is not praticle for me to use. I hav not found any thing that I do on the iphone that I gave not been able to find an app that works on the hd doing the same or better. I really like being able to change the rom on my phone and customise it. Can't really do that with the iphone. And I think the display on the HD is much better.

daraj said:
Yup. WVGA on HD and VGA on Iphone ( Not sure if its even VGA)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Capacitive Vs Resistive is a bigger aspect than the resolution which, I agree, the iPhone falls short of. It is HVGA (320x480).

You have to be crazy to think that the iphone hasnt changed the mobile industry. It is an amazingly capable, intuitive and beautiful device to boot compared to these piece of lard htc OS's (the stock ones).
I owned about 15 HTC/Winmo devices starting with the SPV c500 and culminating in the Diamond as soon as it came out and got an iphone 3g at around the same time. None of the roms could come close to the intrinsic slickness, speed and support for the iphone, I jailbroke it, and was blown away and it became my primary device. However the iphone is currently mediacentric and not a buisness/professional phone and I needed an OQO UMPC to carry around as well but it doesnt claim to be anything else in fairness.
I have been quite impressed by the cooked Win 6.5 roms and skyfire recently though, and I am going to buy the HTC Touch Pro2 when it comes out as I need to use programs like word with a built in keyboard and tv out facility and perhaps retire my UMPC/laptops. This forum is also a great feature in choosing a HTC phone for customisation.
And for people who say the iphone doesnt have microsd, poor camera etc... How many crippled HTC devices have we seen? The iphone has been in a class of its own untill recent catch up devices.

imperiallight said:
And for people who say the iphone doesnt have microsd, poor camera etc... How many crippled HTC devices have we seen? The iphone has been in a class of its own untill recent catch up devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Expandability is (in my opinion) essential for any electronic devices. I have an 8GB card in my HD now, and I plan on upgrading to a 32GB soon by simply inserting a memory card. iPhone...can't do that. You have to buy a new phone to do so. I also have a spare battery which I can swap out when I am on the road and can't charge my phone...like camping perhaps. Iphone...can't. I like to copy and paste text from one program to another (multitasking). iPhone...can't. The HD 5MP camera takes great pictures which can be geo tagged with great accuracy. iPhone (until v2.0 comes out)...can't. Sure, there are some HD's out there that are crippled or bricked. Why? Because people that have the mental capacity to appreciate a multitasking device/computer actually like to open the hood and tweak it. Sure, iPhone apps may seem to run smoother. But that's because of the lack of multitasking! My HD (or any other Windows Mobile device) runs processes and applications in the background so you can do more and be more productive.
Honestly, do a side by side comparison of the HD and the iPhone. And I am not talking software, I mean hardware. We can debate applications all day, but it's the hardware that defines the capabilities. If you want a list of HD hardware features then I will post them for you.

*double post*

DerrickD2,
You have misunderstood the thrust of my post, that the iphone was/is a trailblazing and revolutionary device in the mobile sector. It seems anywhere bar this 'nerdy spec-hugging' forum that its not too hard to accept. The Touch HD is a better device in my opinion too as like I already stated, other companies have played catch up. There is no need to tell me its hardware specs.
But to pick up on a few points:
* Upgradeable SD is important, it annoys me to only have 16gb but I can stream content off free iphone optimised filestores available, some providing 10gb a go. Not ideal but workable.
* Spare battery, well the iphones battery is pretty decent and lasts for many years. If you want to keep the battery charged you can do it on the fly by adding these 'double your battery' packs and their ilk/cases when you are running low and you dont even 'have to swap the battery':
http://us.kensington.com/html/15462.html
* You can cut and paste text in jailbroken phones within the app. You can mulitask too, to an extent on JB phones although I dont know if it's sytemwide cut and paste (prob. not)
* Megapixels aren't everything on a camera. Its about the lens too. The 2MP camera of the iphone image quality is known to be quite decent, better than most 3.2MP HTC offerings but I agree it should have a better camera.
* Like I said the iphone isn't productivity centred and its probably why they dont consider multitasking a crucial feature but from what I understand its processor is faster than any HTC phone. Jailbroken iphones can run background apps too but obviously native apps dont support this.
We can debate applications all day, but it's the hardware that defines the capabilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is so contentious! Hardware can define the capabilites and software/OS/User experience can define the capabilties! It depends on what the consumer needs. Horses for course's!

Some queries about the HD2

Okay, I'm seriously looking into getting a HD2 next month, however some of the negatives about this device concern me.
For one the speed doesn't always seem to be up to scratch compared to other Snapdragon devices (though it sports the same processor). Is it really that much of an issue? Is the HD2 still fast enough for most/all tasks? Also I've seen keyboard lag mentioned a fair bit too, a small issue, or not?
The next issue would be the pink hue I've seen on just about every sample image from the HD2, I know this is an ongoing thing and no one seems to have narrowed it down to either a software or hardware fault. Is it really that bad? Also I've seen very little shots from the HD2 that look even decent quality.
Thirdly is Windows Mobile, now I am aware of a lot of people that prefer Windows Mobile to Android, but again is it really that much of a deal breaker? I see a lot of people saying the HD2 hardware with an Android would be a match made in heaven, and that concerns me as I do not want to be left disappointed.
Basically I would like some views from both sides and someone to confirm whether this truly is the best phone I could buy, or whether I should look elsewhere, taking the above issues into account.
Thanks.

Hey,
I hope to get my HD2 next week but I have had some play time with a Demo unit and it was super fast and very smooth, think Iphone but much better. To quote comic book guy “Best phone ever” well in my opinion anyway.
I would always pick WM over Android, you can do so much more with WM.
There does seem to be a small but vocal group who are hell bent on making the HD2 out to be a bad phone or in some way crippled by HTC.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=583618

Hmm, have one now for over a week:
1. Speed - really fast and better than iphone, especially when you take into account the multiple applications at once.
2. Keyboard lag - super fast, could actually do with a slow down !
3. Pink hue - no idea about that, my screen is really excellent
4. WM vs Android - no comment, WM has been around for longer

Obviously I wasn't clear with the pink hue, I was meaning a pink hue in photo's taken with the HD2's Camera.
But thanks for the reassurance guys, keep 'em coming.

Oh, I see what "pink hue" is from your view now.
Well, HTC have never really been able to make super a quality camera function. But, the HD2 camera is OK and quick. I have not noticed a pink hue but I also would not claim to be an image expert. Nice thing on the HD2 (compared to the HD) is finally a LED flash.
But, I doubt anyone buys this as a top quality camera and, of course, no one buys an iphone as a camera either !
I'll have a play with some flash images - it would not surprise me if the LED is screwing up the colour balance.

Thanks for that Dave. I'm still very much undecided, to be honest I was 100% for getting the HD2 till I read some of the problems on the forum here. Now I'm not so sure.

The problem with reading problems on a forum is that for the most part, that's what most people come on a forum to do. Nowhere for even the most amazing device will you find more "wow" posts than "omg it sucks" posts. The majority are from people who didn't research their purchase properly. Even for what is supposed to be a developer-centric site, there is an enormous number of ignorant and unintelligent people.
It's a fantastic device, and the performance is so far ahead of my previous WM devices it's not funny. The pink middle on photos is a problem that seems to be affecting a few units (not mine), but it'll either be fixed by a ROM update or else according to HTC you can return for a replacement.
WM vs. Android is a completely personal choice. You might as well ask us what colour shoes you should wear. What do YOU prefer?

I read many post before buying the HD2, most probably I was in the same state of mind you are.
Having done a huge mistake with the SEX1, I risked my money on another WM. Have to say I'm more than pleased with this beast.
It's fast, very fast, had a ton of applications which were sucking out a lot of memory and not in one instance had I experienced lag. It was only when I went in Task manager that I realised how many applications were running. Apparently, the applications will only close when the required memory exceeds the available memory, I stand to be corrected.
Reception is excellent, far better than my SEX1.
Sound quality is impressive, again far better than the SEX1. My system volume is set at 55% and when playing music on the speaker the sound quality is very good and quite loud. Apparently when the phone senses that it's in a case it automatically increases the volume, you defo won't be having problems there.
Battery life is an issue, but it could well give you a day, for me it's not a decisive issue as the phone is connected to the pc every evening.
Camera could have been better, but then again its a phone, and hence all phones, be it 5,9,12 megapixel, will never be excellent photo takers.
Overall, I think that this phone deserves 8/10. It could well be improved with some ROM updates but the GUI, Manilla, is excellent. I love it!!

I have just recently ditched my Google G1. Whilst I enjoyed Android, I think that the Sense GUI on the HD2 is a lot better. The screen is just miles, miles better.
I was worried about the text input side of things - I have always preferred hard keyboards hence the G1. But having got used to the soft keypad of the HD2 I think it is fab.
Overall (and so far!) I would give the HD 2 a rather fantastic 9/10....LOVE IT!

Thanks for all the positive feedback guys. I guess I still really need to think this through, but I think your input will make the decision easier.

Hello
I've used HTC for years since opening my eyes past the Nokia and Sony Ericsson stuff so had the Vario 2 and 3 and then loved the touch hd (blackstone). Finally went for an Android with the release of the Hero as it got such rave reviews and phone of the year etc...
Basically it depends what your priorities are to be honest. My overview of the phones are these:
HERO = Great user friendly device with simple layout, all makes sense and is easy to use and does everything well although nothing is outstanding. Great allround phone for the medium - high end user. Apps are unbeatable for ideas, functionality, price (or lack of as hundreds possibly thousands are free!) and generally GOOD phone. Fun, functional and well priced. Camera is naff!
HD2 = Not so user friendly although it makes sense to the experienced user but very serious piece of kit. Not as fun but very customisable and powerful, superb speed, good amount of cabs out there and assistance from some of the geniuses knocking around on this site etc. They can help you do pretty much anything you want to it. I personally love this phone more than any other phone i've ever used but i like the windows thing even though the marketplace is a con and expensive and very empty still (i know it's newish but they shouldve at least launched with a decent selection ready for people as incentive!). The screen is outstanding, the camera is much better now that HTC have discovered that Flashes exist! Still not on a par with Samsung or Sonys but its a balance in a product so priorities again. The Sense and Touchflo is great, future rom potentials is there too.
If you want a gimmicky (although good) app based fun phone get the Hero, if you want a serious power-smartphone get the HD2 and customise away.
HTC are such a great non mainstream company (in Joe Publics eyes not us gadget lovers) but i feel with phones like the Hero they really are gonna be a main player in less than 3 years as long as they keep their superb efforts up!!!
Good luck!

Well this thread has been very useful to read I'm trying to decide between iphone 3GS or HTC touch HD2. Would love to find a phone that doesn't lag ...
Do people still feel the same way 3 months later - have HTC come out and fixed any problems? Does the HD2 start to lag after its been in use for a while - or is it still really smooth for people?
Sorry if there are other threads that answer these questions ... links to any similar discussions would be good if that's the case.

Thinking of returning my HD2

As stated in the thread title, I am seriously considering returning my HTC Touch HD2, because I find it almost completely unusable compared to the iphone that I owned previously.
Pros
- Amazing screen
- Everything else that has been highlighted in all the positive reviews that persuaded me to buy the device in the first place (spec, camera, connectivity etc.)
Cons:
- Touchscreen keyboard is unusable and not accurate, even after calibaration (compared to an iphone)
- Web browsing using Opera is frustrating due to the unreliable touchscreen - I find it impossible to click on links; particularly on sites such as this one (with small page numbers etc.) - even when I zoom right in I still can't click the link - there is a huge delay before anything happens, without any feedback to show the link has been clicked - this stuff just worked on the iphone, depsite the smaller screen
- Random app switching, erratic behaviour (screen moving on its own) and regular freezes in all modes/apps
For those who think I am some kind of Apple fan-boy, that couldn't be further from the truth - my iphone developed a dead strip of icons, which forced me to sell it for peanuts, so I vowed to never buy another! The truth of the matter is that the UI of the HD2 just isn't in the same league as the iphone - it's just a cheap imitation.
Maybe if it had Android instead of WM it would stand a chance, but as things currently stand, I find the HD2 completely unusable and will probably be returning it on Monday and getting an iphone, assuming I can persuade Mobile Phones Direct to adhere to the distance selling regulations that provide a 7 day cooling off period (according to their T&C's this only stands if the box is unopened, which is wrong)
Please note that I am posting this for the benefit of others, to provide my personal feedback after using the phone for the last few days. If anyone has any suggestions for how to rectify the problems noted above, I will happily try them.
Catman

I feel your pain...
Hi,
I know how you feel - I've only had it a day and i'm already getting that dreaded feeling! On the plus side I'm delighted to be away from that Stalin 'Jobsie' and his locked down iPhones - on the down side this HD2 is about as user friendly as the space shuttle compared to the jesus phone, and I sued to be so impressed with the iPaq from 6 years ago!!
I do think that I can live with it - just it's not going to be the long winded love affair type relationship - more the 'throwing at the wall' one minute, loving it the next!
Luckily, mines through o2 so i'm going to run with it for 10 days and see how we get along - if all else fails then there's always the 3GS to fall back onto. Although I wasn't for Android on this handset to begin with - from where i'm sitting now it does make more sense!
Good luck figuring it all out!

Look here :http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=583638
For some handy tweaks including, haptic feedback in Opera and the abiltiy to click links without zooming in!!!
But I do feel your pain, a little let down with the OS on this phone, everything else is excellent..... build quality, screen, asthetics, CPU, RAM, etc.. Just the OS is a pile of poo! lol

The truth of the matter is that the UI of the HD2 just isn't in the same league as the iphone - it's just a cheap imitation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks a lot. You just proof yourself wrong ^^. Whether its better or worse is another question, but imitation? You mean the shortcuts on home screen? You're just *****in'. Pls close this thread we dont need that destructive posts.
Advice: Sell the HD2 and dont complain. I can click even the small ugly boxes in Windows Mobile itself. I dont know how long you've tried to click somethin', but if you really feel that it is impossible for you go back to resistive screen, on the Touch HD it wasnt that bad IMO.

NetDwarf said:
Thanks a lot. You just proof yourself wrong ^^. Whether its better or worse is another question, but imitation? You mean the shortcuts on home screen? You're just *****in'. Pls close this thread we dont need that destructive posts.
Advice: Sell the HD2 and dont complain. I can click even the small ugly boxes in Windows Mobile itself. I dont know how long you've tried to click somethin', but if you really feel that it is impossible for you go back to resistive screen, on the Touch HD it wasnt that bad IMO.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion...even one sided twerps like you.

It's kinda strange for me to read your feedback, I had chance to play with the test version of the HD2 and things worked pretty well, most of your "cons" I could not find on my preliminary experience!?

Catman3146 said:
assuming I can persuade Mobile Phones Direct to adhere to the distance selling regulations that provide a 7 day cooling off period
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
(hollow laugh)
Good luck with that.

I hear you man. I have the same considerations..
I don't have freezes or random app switching though. and I don't really care about the UI since I use spb mobile shell which runs excellent and so god damn fast on this thing.
but the screen is a problem when browsing. it's not accurate enough for my taste. and using the keyboard is also more cumbersome than on my Topaz...
it really is a beautiful and fast device. sometimes it feels like using a computer more than a phone and that's pretty cool too.
I'm still thinking...

Your poor experience seems to be the result of a faulty handset. For the first 4 days of receiving my HD2, the phone's touchscreen kept making its own decisions, even when left idling on the desk. The touchscreen registered wrong inputs and I had the same impressions of the phone as you have now. It was the final straw when the phone just kept registering the 2 option in Phone mode and refused to stop until I hit the soft reset button.
I took it down to the shop I bought the phone from, had it exchanged after explaining the situation (it did take a threat of wanting a full refund when they initially refused to classify the phone as faulty) and the replaced new handset is a complete different phone to the first one I had, the touchscreen does what suppose to do!
Before throwing all hopes away on the HD2, trying getting it replaced first. It is a genuinely good product, it's a shame that quality control has let some of us down.
Your experience with Opera should be resolved by Karlos G's link.
[EDIT] My phone was also purchased from Mobile Phones Direct. They are rather poor when it comes to refund and exchanges, trying to make up excuses as to why you cannot refund or exchange the phone (lies, lies and more lies... just don't go with the flow). State your case and don't let them push you around.

I guess your are one of the unlucky people to get a "monday"-device. mine has none of the problems you have. my screen is accurate, opera is sometimes picky when you don't zoom in, and I have never experienced any erratic behaviour. the only problem I can recall is the camera issue (pink teint).
I applied Karlo G's link but I still have problems clicking links when zoomed out. maybe I have to get more accurate I'm still getting used to a capacitive screen.

chronicle said:
Everyone's entitled to their own opinion...even one sided twerps like you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think NetDwarf has a point... an imitation? Hello? on the iphone you've got hundrets of icons and THAT'S IT!... but this beautiful Sense UI. an Imitation? omg

I agree about the keyboard. I don't understand why they couldn't just have made it the same as the one on the Hero, which is excellent.
Maybe in the next software update they will sort the problem. I have tried some other keyboards and they are even worse than the stock one IMHO, so I'm starting to think it's partly to do with the screen sensitivity. I have tried the sensitivity tweak .cab which purports to help the issue but still it frustrates me.
The word prediction algorithms on the iPhone are infinitely superior, and the screen sensitivity is balanced just right. I have both phones in front of me right now and so have a good balanced perspective on this issue.
Here's my opinion on what is better and what is worse of the two based on a year's ownership of an iPhone and a week's ownership of the HD2 (just based on my USAGE, not pure spec!)
iPhone 3G Pros
More balanced screen sensitivity compared to the HD2 - fewer mistakes with the keyboard or onscreen selections.
More efficient and reliable browsing experience
Transflective screen.
Built in podcatching client. I'm yet to find one to compare with iTunes on the iPhone, although Google Listen comes close on Android. Hopefully they will port it to Windows Mobile soon. iTunes finds even the most obscure Podcasts, most other podcatchers require going online to find feeds that are not well known as their database doesn't have the same span as Apple's iTunes store.
Comparatively small in the hand
Better loudspeaker - clear and resonant.
Better Facebook client (by a HUGE margin)
Better BBC iPlayer experience/general online multimedia experience. Many sites tailor their output to iPhone.
Easier to quickly send/reply to a text (I use iRealQuickSMS and I dont think anything similar is available on WinMo)
Built in App Store with 100s of thousands of apps at very reasonable prices (yes I know a lot of them are crap)
Better Youtube app with full sign-in option which includes subscriptions' newest videos
I prefer the iPhone email client.......the Windows one is horrible for HTML content (sorry guys)
Much better IM client in the form of Beejive than anything Windows Mobile currently has on offer. IM+ is slow and ugly.
More tightly knit development and modding scene (XDAs is split over multiple handsets)
iPhone 3G cons
Inconvenient for quickly adding music - iTunes can be a bit of a cludge
Conversion of Video content is almost always required and takes so long that I don't usually bother unless I'm going on a long journey.
Comparatively low screen resolution, screen isn't as bright and clear as the HD2
Limited bluetooth support (although I don't GENERALLY need bluetooth
No option to buy an extra battery so I often have to carry an external one with me.
Low RAM so things often slow down with heavy usage.
Processor not as powerful as that of the HD2 (although it does have hardware acceleration)
HD2 Pros
Gorgeous, huge screen
Multitasking (although I only use it for IM and the iPhone has push notifications which don't use anywhere near as much battery as having an App constantly running in the background and connected to the internet.)
1ghz processor and plenty of RAM means few slowdowns
Video playback without conversion (through Coreplayer)
Nicer weather integration than the iPhone
Better camera than iPhone 3G (but not 3Gs), dual flash.
Great built quality, slimmer than the iPhone.
More comprehensive browser, similar speed but greater screen real-estate and download support. More browser tweaks available.
Open operating system....supports third party skins such as Touchflo and PointUI
Better sound quality through the same Apple headset as the iPhone (in my opinion). Richer, warmer sound.
Easily customisable ringtones and message tones through the device itself, with no jailbreaking required.
Once unlocked, stays unlocked. No worries about device baseband update causing SIMlock.
Facebook and Youtube account/upload integration.
Expandable memory, easier to add files than the iPhone.
HD2 cons
Fiddly UI generally compared to iPhone.
Oversensitive keyboard. Poor prediction algorithms that seem to rely too heavily on getting the first letter right.
Tinny and poor quality speaker. Sounds like an old AM radio on full blast. Awkward positioning on the back.
Paltry 2g card included in box. iPhone comes preloaded with 8gb minimum
Battery charges a lot slower than iPhone
Poor App store - overpriced Apps, too few innovative ones....most of the best ones such as Coreplayer just aren't there. This is not the HD2s fault, it's just that it has a big effect on the user experience when an App store has such a lame selection. Hands up the man who'd pay £5.99 for Pacman, or £18.14 for SPB Wallet!!!
Youtube app is limited and doesn't support account subscriptions. For such a socially-orientated device this is poor show for HTC, and I'm disappointed.
Inbuilt Twitter app is inferior to most iPhone freebies such as Echofon, and a million miles away from being as good as Tweetie. The nearest Windows Marketplace Equivalent TouchTwit costs £3.99 (Tweetie is £1.79 and still a lot better). Microsoft need to get their arse in gear and sort out the Marketplace.
Rubbish Facebook app, browser is better.
These points are just what came to mind for me based on MY WANTS AND NEEDS.
I do like the HD2, I'm not saying it's rubbish. Most of the problems are just about the software, and if Microsoft step up and get the Marketplace right, and HTC release a new ROM with some upgrades and tweaks then who knows.....things might be ten times better.
Aside from it's **** speaker and the slightly dodgy camera tint issue I cannot fault the HD2's hardware. It is really lush, and I love holding it. It is a joy to have in the hand.

Catman3146 said:
As stated in the thread title, I am seriously considering returning my HTC Touch HD2, because I find it almost completely unusable compared to the iphone that I owned previously.
Pros
- Amazing screen
- Everything else that has been highlighted in all the positive reviews that persuaded me to buy the device in the first place (spec, camera, connectivity etc.)
Cons:
- Touchscreen keyboard is unusable and not accurate, even after calibaration (compared to an iphone)
- Web browsing using Opera is frustrating due to the unreliable touchscreen - I find it impossible to click on links; particularly on sites such as this one (with small page numbers etc.) - even when I zoom right in I still can't click the link - there is a huge delay before anything happens, without any feedback to show the link has been clicked - this stuff just worked on the iphone, depsite the smaller screen
- Random app switching, erratic behaviour (screen moving on its own) and regular freezes in all modes/apps
For those who think I am some kind of Apple fan-boy, that couldn't be further from the truth - my iphone developed a dead strip of icons, which forced me to sell it for peanuts, so I vowed to never buy another! The truth of the matter is that the UI of the HD2 just isn't in the same league as the iphone - it's just a cheap imitation.
Maybe if it had Android instead of WM it would stand a chance, but as things currently stand, I find the HD2 completely unusable and will probably be returning it on Monday and getting an iphone, assuming I can persuade Mobile Phones Direct to adhere to the distance selling regulations that provide a 7 day cooling off period (according to their T&C's this only stands if the box is unopened, which is wrong)
Please note that I am posting this for the benefit of others, to provide my personal feedback after using the phone for the last few days. If anyone has any suggestions for how to rectify the problems noted above, I will happily try them.
Catman
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
for me the HD2 is the best. I agreed with the keyboard but i found a solution.
Install Touch Pal and a cab in order to reduce the sensentive leval of the screen (the cab you can download on this forum). Now i can write even better as on the pro 2 - its really great. Forget I-Phone now.

I always find, the best thing to do with a new phone, is try some tweaks etc and then if it doesn't work out, return it. The tweaks usually fix most of the issues that people have. Without this site I would have really regretted getting my X1 for example. But XDA made it amazing.
I love the HD2, and the only problem I have had so far is getting used to the capacitive screen. Any of the other things (like task manager) have been fixed using tweaks from here.
We are so lucky to have all the amazing guys here on XDA developing and discovering all these tweaks for us, and keeping them all in one place.
I suggest you try some of these (they should fix most of your issues).
I would agree, the keyboard can be crazy. But I think it is a case of getting used to it. Every phone is going to be different. That's the nature of the world we live in.
Even then, I think the cons you have mentioned (most of which are fixable).
I hope you do try those tweaks and that they work for you.

Thanks for all your helpful suggestions and comments. I think it is important for people to get a balanced view about the device (particularly compared to the iphone), after reading so many unilaterlly positive reviews that fail to mention many of the flaws I have highlighted.
I will try the tweaks suggested and see how I get over the next couple of days before making a final decision (I'll post an update here), but HTC really should have done a better job with the initial release (the iphone had none of these problems - I bought one of the very first handsets in the US way before it was released here in the UK).
I am still hopeful that the issues are primarily software-related rather than dodgy hardware, but I will try to get a replacement out of MPD to try if this proves to not be the case.

I think you will find Catman, that most of the issues are related to the way the ROM is setup.
I think the tweaks should fix some of them. Have a read through the tips and tweaks list, and see what you can find. Some of them should help. Also, the CABs from smaberg here should also help.

If you sell it, contact me asap !
I am ok to buy !

For anyone struggling with the keyboard, go to the hints and tips thread and install the referenced CAB to reduce screen sensitivity. My keyboard was basically unusable but installed it and it works about the same as the iPhone maybe slightly better because errors are still corrected with the dictionary a lot better...

Catman3146 said:
but HTC really should have done a better job with the initial release (the iphone had none of these problems - I bought one of the very first handsets in the US way before it was released here in the UK).
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Wow if you think the iPhone had no problems at launch, you really are living in backwards land.
BTW, I don't think any HD2s have exploded yet either. I'm not sure if you think incendiary injuries are a positive or negative feature? To be "balanced" we should agree that it is both.

Wow, I find the keyboard excellent, I wonder whether its a ROM-version thing...
Regards browser - have you tried Opera Mobile 10?

Windows fanboy has committed a crime

Right I want to be honest here and admit to my crime. I have been the biggest winmo fan for as many years as I can remember. In fact since the Compaq Ipaq first product. Prior to that I was a dedicated Psion fan from the Psion Organiser 2 so I have been round the block a bit. I have also owned probably more than 100 devices! I have always purchased the next best device on the first day you could get it paying over the odds. I think you get the picture.
Now people in my office are Mac fans and I have listened to them bleating on about their IPhones and have spent my life making fun of their choice of toy smartphones. At first it was easy with all the silly faults the IPhone clearly had. Crap camera, No cut and paste, No MMS, No video, No Exchange email
Recently my wife has gone over the the dark side against my advice. I have spent years telling her just how crap the IPhone is because I love(d) winmo but.............
After days of playing with my wifes IPhone 3gs I realised just how wrong I possibly was. Yes there was faults still with the OS but frankly they were much less than I thought. I started comparing it to my clunky, totally unreliable, buggy and frankly pathetically over responsive screen of my Touch HD2 and had to decide to buy myself and IPhone an give it a try (I mean I could always go back couldnt I) so.........
I went out and purchased an IPhone 3gs last week and I am sorry to say that it is simply head shoulders, body and tail better than any windows device I have ever tried.
I have spent the last week chuckling to myself about how stupid and ignorant I have been and how lucky I am to have made the move. The IPhone is awesome. Its operating system is unflappable and never crashes or falters or slows down.
The apps (and there is a ridiculously massive choice) just work flawlessly. Some of the things I thought were faults are not so bad (background apps not working) and although it would be nice if it had a camera as good as the HD2 (it doesn't), I wouldnt sell my Iphone for any windows device. In fact I cannot believe anyone wouldnt feel exactly the same if they tried one.
I know its a cop out having enjoyed installing new roms etc for years but seriously I urge every one of you to try one. You may feel just like me if you do. It would take something special to get me back to windows mobile and HTC should be ashamed of themselves for releasing the HD2 with so many bugs. Having had so many HTC devices I feel a little betrayed that they didnt get this one right and it made me switch to the DARK SIDE!!!
For me I doubt there is ever any going back now. I am writing this just so other can experience the pure OS and hardware pleasure that is the IPhone.

I have had iPhone 3g and still own a 3gs along with a blackstone and a leo.
You are right about the fast & stable system of the iphone os & its hard to decide to leave the iphone once you fell in love with it (Thats why i still have the 3gs, cant decide )
The problem lies within the operating system and not the device. Its the Microsoft windows which is the culprit and not the htc device. Have you ever used a mac. It is way more faster, stable & safe than the Windows PC even mac having lower specs as compared to windows pc.
HD2 has great specs but the same damn system running behind it.
I wonder if there is a way to run iphone os on htc hd2 ?????
I've read somewhere on the net that people had tried to run mac os on windows pc with success. Have my fingers crossed.
Best of luck with your 3gs

Hm...i have to wonder if you seriously played / configured / flashed your HD2 or if you just judge by the stock rom experience?
With an up to date 6.5.3 rom, i don't see any problems with the HD2. You praise the iphone OS, yet compared to WM, there is hardly any accessible OS. The iPhone is a grid of shortcuts that each launch a program. Nothing else to do there, nothing much to tweak, to setup. It's perfect for your wife i am sure, but you as a former WM user,... are you sure you will not get bored? The greatest pleasure of my HD2 is flashing new roms and trying new tweaks, hacks and themes. I can personalize it more than any iPhone user could personalize their iPhone! That's what makes it great. In terms of performance, again, an up to date WM6.5.3 rom does neither lag nor run slow in any way. On top of that you have a screen with a vastly higher resolution. I would not want to downgrade from WVGA any longer.
Bottom line: Yes the iPhone has lots of apps, no they are not all useful, and yes you can do similar things on WM. It just requires more knowledge and work, which us XDA users do have, i think!

i have both the 3gs and HD2 .. both are great but the 3gs has the EDGE-
/T

Yes I agree but the hardware is some part of the problem. I had a HTC Touch Pro2 previous the the HD2 and could type perfectly on the screen without using the hardware keyboard. Switching to the Touch HD2 I expected it to be great with the new capacitive screen but it wasnt. Despite various patches and having the knowledge to be able to try various roms I still couldnt get it to type reliably at a decent speed. It was just rubbish. That was the same Winmo version I had on my Touch Pro2!
I agree the form factor on a HD2 is great but spoiled by some dodgy hardware and s**te software in hindsight. The Iphone OS is great and it makes me wonder if I have been as wrong about Macs as I have about Iphones. I am going to have a play on the Mac in our office now!

Yes in fact I tried about 5 different roms. I did also try ones with 6.5.3 but they were no better. I also tried two different HD2's as I purchased a second on a contract for my wife then sold it and purchased her the Iphone.
I know what you mean about getting bored and I also agree about the grid. Its a shame you cant organise it better but they are tiny faults I feel to the incredible ownership experience. Its early days having it only a week but my HD2 was driving me mad at this point. I found myself verbally complimenting the Iphone while I was out in the garden listing to music today. I know I must be going a bit mad but I am deleriously delighted about the Iphone so far.

stuartforrest said:
Yes I agree but the hardware is some part of the problem. I had a HTC Touch Pro2 previous the the HD2 and could type perfectly on the screen without using the hardware keyboard. Switching to the Touch HD2 I expected it to be great with the new capacitive screen but it wasnt. Despite various patches and having the knowledge to be able to try various roms I still couldnt get it to type reliably at a decent speed. It was just rubbish. That was the same Winmo version I had on my Touch Pro2!
I agree the form factor on a HD2 is great but spoiled by some dodgy hardware and s**te software in hindsight. The Iphone OS is great and it makes me wonder if I have been as wrong about Macs as I have about Iphones. I am going to have a play on the Mac in our office now!
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did steve jobs need to create 4 screen names to say the same thing?

Yawn. Good for you. Whatever.
So how is this a general HD2 thread? Please let this drivel die now, rather than later when it turns into a slanging match, because that is clearly what the OP intends.
Have fun kids.

and in fact I have to say that when my iphone arrived I was still very unsure if I had done the right thing but once you play with one for a few days its then you realise. There are little things everywhere that make you smile. Type a url that is longer than the box and the font reduces to fit it on screen, try selecting something and the magnifying glass pops up to make it easy etc etc. The list goes on and on and I expect that Apple will keep adding to rom's. Microsoft have done next to nothing with theirs in ten years!

I was only trying to let others know my experience. I have been a member on here for years and contributing so this is no flash in the pan posting. Anyway think what you like. I have been totally honest but you can lead a horse to water but not make it drink!

stuartforrest said:
I was only trying to let others know my experience. I have been a member on here for years and contributing so this is no flash in the pan posting. Anyway think what you like. I have been totally honest but you can lead a horse to water but not make it drink!
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I'm not getting into it mate. Say whatever you like.

my local prison has an excellent reputation for good food, brilliant sporting facilities and cable tv in every cell, but I'm not moving in!

johncmolyneux said:
I'm not getting into it mate. Say whatever you like.
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Well, let's be perfectly honest here : there is not a single Windows Mobile device on the market that can match and the general responsiveness, consistency and easy of use of an iPhone 3GS. Nor the consistent UI experience or simplicity - sure, Windows Mobile may have more options and abilities to tweak and mess with, but to dismiss the iPhone would be a stupid thing to do.
It's got very nice hardware, with and extremely well written OS underneath - it lakcs things yes, but what it does have, it usually out performs that of Windows Mobile, avaliable on the market today, and for many people iPhone 3GS would be a much better choice than any Windows Mobile phone, there's no getting around that whether you like it or not. As much as I dislike the saying, "it just works". It's something that you can apply far more easily to an iPhone than a WinMo device.
Still though, it's not fore everyone, and I'm quite happy to have a device with an inconsistent UI, spats of Lag and random freezes, as long as it does it's job as a phone. Am I satisfied with my HTC HD2? Not really. Would I be more satisfied with the experience of an iPhone. Probably. Would I buy one? Hell no

I know it's a difficult one but then typing my reply and watching the screen scroll around while I type is just class.
I felt exactly the same for a while. I am not totally trying to put down the HD2. I have spent weeks telling everyone in my office that it was an IPhone but without all the faults but I was wrong. Actually it's like an Iphone but with a really poor os. The screen isn't as good on the iPhone but it just used more cleverly. The lack of background apps is just stupid on the iPhone but mostly its just great.

Just out of interest I also purchased a motorola milestone (droid) expecting android to be good but frankly it was truly awful. Windows mobile was a breath of fresh air after using that horror for a single day!

Closing this as relevant points now made.
WB