Database Users

[Q] SD Android continuation

I have a smal question... I was wondering what will happen to the SD builds now that NAND is out. Are devs gonna disclaim those of us that like to have WM on they'r phone or like me cannot install NAND?
If u think this is not the place for the question feel free to move this

Hopefully die a quick death. By the way, why can't you install mgldr? Also, this is the wrong forum.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

i suspect NAND will work for most 95% of the phones out there
the question is , SD card is old technology but does bring its benefits
backing up, upgrading builds and modifying components were a little easier made from Windows Mobile. Multiple Android boots from different Android Folders as well using Exceller's
well, to me, SD card should perhaps move to the direction of RAM.
and finally NAND only and RAM only builds should conquer.. speed, stability and functionality
Primary Generation : NAND (with some setbacks now)
Secondary Generation : RAM ( with some setbacks now)
Tertiary Generation : SD (with setbacks as well)
they all have their UP and DOWNS, I believe its CHOICE
and if you dont like Android, go with Windows Mobile ! The power to customize is up 2 you
darkstone is working on NAND+RAM, so lets see how that unfolds...

Ahmun_Ra said:
I have a smal question... I was wondering what will happen to the SD builds now that NAND is out. Are devs gonna disclaim those of us that like to have WM on they'r phone or like me cannot install NAND?
If u think this is not the place for the question feel free to move this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
even me would be on the list... as i tried everything possible (combinations of WM ROM/ RADIO /TASK29) to install nand.
magldr does install. but partition send failed is the error on dft installer... and magldr says block 0 , bad crc..
-----------
TMOUS HD2

I'm wondering what's happening to nand roms, not even on first page? just SD builds
Sent from my HTC bravo using XDA App

norpan111 said:
I'm wondering what's happening to nand roms, not even on first page? just SD builds
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably because there are no or very little problems with the NAND builds so nobody has questions about them.

This is an interesting thread. I am using sd builds too. I'd like to have dual boot too because i need winmo from time to time to use mytinytv. Most recent android builds are now moving to nand. Unless magldr has dual boot options, i'd like to stick with sd builds.
Sent from my HTC Desire using XDA App

Do we have the option to run a SD build from mgldr ? Ive had a little go but no boot yet...

norpan111 said:
I'm wondering what's happening to nand roms, not even on first page? just SD builds
Sent from my HTC bravo using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The nand build have their own sub forum. XDA app cannot see that yet. Try to browse in a computer and you'll see.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

norpan111 said:
I'm wondering what's happening to nand roms, not even on first page? just SD builds
Sent from my HTC bravo using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All the nand roms have been moved to its own subforum.
Edit: knew I should've just waited to let somebody else answer

Satyan said:
even me would be on the list... as i tried everything possible (combinations of WM ROM/ RADIO /TASK29) to install nand.
magldr does install. but partition send failed is the error on dft installer... and magldr says block 0 , bad crc..
-----------
TMOUS HD2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had this problem. After I did the following , flashing nand worked.
1. Flash with task 29
2. Flash stock win mo rom
3. Flash magldr
4. Flash nand rom of choice.
This process has to be done in that order.
I tried different combinations until I found this one to work repeatedly.
Hopefully you figure it out...
Also did you un check allow usb connections in active sync?
Good luck.
Sent from my HTC bravo using XDA App

I believe nand is better ,faster and more stable way to have android in our phones but i think that is better to have more than one choises.

personally i do think i NEVER move the build into NAND - as I am still vigorously using the GPS software in the original WM which is too useful to me ... lol
furthermore, backing up all stuff in SD is too easy to me - so I didn't / never think of placing any backup stuff in my android builds... lol

SD RAM will defeat NAND...i guess
I believe that most of the limitation you will incur with NAND have limited chances of been resolved (user space).
I've tested 6 NAND builds, they work fine and they have a lower battery drain compared to SD and SD/RAM release.
Nevertheless most of us want to install apps and unfortunately not all can be moved to SD....so IMHO at the end the most flexible long term solution is SD plus RAM loading (to have the benefits of huge user space and good performance...with a little higher battery consumption)

Well, as much as I love flashing the living crap out of my phones. . . . I quit. . . After I got a perfected WMO and Robot combo running.
My phone runs about 97% perfect. . . Which is just the same if not better then a native Android device.

I currently absolutely want to keep WM on my phone, because I like it but especially because there are a couple of apps for WinMo which I really need. I have bought a HD2 and not an Android phone because I need both systems. Therefore I hope to see that SD Android development goes on, possibly in the RAM direction.

Black Antitoon said:
I currently absolutely want to keep WM on my phone, because I like it but especially because there are a couple of apps for WinMo which I really need. I have bought a HD2 and not an Android phone because I need both systems. Therefore I hope to see that SD Android development goes on, possibly in the RAM direction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1, 100% same case with me.
(and we are not alone... )

good
Black Antitoon said:
I currently absolutely want to keep WM on my phone, because I like it but especially because there are a couple of apps for WinMo which I really need. I have bought a HD2 and not an Android phone because I need both systems. Therefore I hope to see that SD Android development goes on, possibly in the RAM direction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+10. totaly with you and with SD RAM . So why we have bought HD2 ???
DARKSTONE please continu with SD RAM .

I would be very happy to have some sd/ram build updates in the future. Obviously as we are having the nand boom at the moment, noone should expect sd/ram builds in the next couple of days, I guess.
I love having my energy rom under the android one, especially for my Igo8 navigation. And I still have one of those stupid issues with all the builds when the phone stucks on 60Ma on standby for hours, dont know why. Sd gives the freedom of costumization, great for research, I can save any build in a directory and put it aside.
Thanks for all your hard work and keep up the good work.

Nand has been the holy grail of developement - and so the big, big interest...But in going down the nand route you are losing half the functionality of the phone. So until and unless there is a dual boot option I think I'm going to stick with SD

Hybrid NAND Android and WP7 ROM?

I was wondering if it would be possible to have a NAND ROM that includes both Android and WP7 installed to the NAND and partition the SD card for storage? This I believe could be possible if the NAND is partitioned correctly to allow them both to run and then you could select them in the MAGLDR!
I would like some dev feedback on this as I would try building a ROM myself but I don't know the workings of the partitioning system in MAGLDR well enough to try! I have posted this in this section as Android NAND ROM builders should know enough about the MAGLDR's partition system to know if it is possible as I love android but would also like to use WP7 as a secondary NOT primary OS!
Thanks in Advance for any help!

Wrong place to ask this. You should have asked this in WP7 Q&A section.

http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=917716
if only you had gone a page further in this forum

David Balfour said:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=917716
if only you had gone a page further in this forum
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've seen that but what I want is to boot Android and WP7 from NAND NOT run android from the SD Card like that guy done because that makes android run slow and I want android as my primary OS!

I know that wp7 only uses 512mb of the Nand on the T-Mobile US HD2s, so if we can somehow install and nand android build on the other 512mb, that would be great. I hope a way to do this is found.

zarathustrax said:
I know that wp7 only uses 512mb of the Nand on the T-Mobile US HD2s, so if we can somehow install and nand android build on the other 512mb, that would be great. I hope a way to do this is found.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 Best of both worlds.. who needs 1 nand os when we can have 2

zarathustrax said:
I know that wp7 only uses 512mb of the Nand on the T-Mobile US HD2s, so if we can somehow install and nand android build on the other 512mb, that would be great. I hope a way to do this is found.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that's what i was wondering since i have learnt wp7 uses only half of nand memory... do u know what happens to the rest of memory ? if the other half is left avaible and free by wp7 then technically it should be just a matter of finding the right partion method for what it takes to have wp7 nand & android nand both together in Leo1024Tmous hardware

captainhakan said:
that's what i was wondering since i have learnt wp7 uses only half of nand memory... do u know what happens to the rest of memory ? if the other half is left avaible and free by wp7 then technically it should be just a matter of finding the right partion method for what it takes to have wp7 nand & android nand both together in Leo1024Tmous hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I think it would work on 512mb HD2's too since WP7 only takes up like 170mb of the NAND and doesn't even use the rest for storage if there is no SD which is strange... my phone reports 160mb used and 5mb available so it would easily allow an android ROM to fit in the rest and the SD can be storage for both...

Any Android Chefs have any ideas or feedback
I was just wondering if any android chefs could enlighten me on the partition system used in magldr?
Thanks.

microang said:
Actually I think it would work on 512mb HD2's too since WP7 only takes up like 170mb of the NAND and doesn't even use the rest for storage if there is no SD which is strange... my phone reports 160mb used and 5mb available so it would easily allow an android ROM to fit in the rest and the SD can be storage for both...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think it uses the whole 512... if it only reports 165 mb when you don't use sd, then the other 347mb is used by the os and just isn't reported, i'm pretty sure. Like with winmo, it doesn't show all the rom memory your device has, but it's being used still. I could be wrong.

Wrong fourm to ask this ****. the rules in the stickys are clear.
"Questions are to be posted in the Q&A forum. If posted anywhere else they will be moved with NO redirects."

smokeingit said:
Wrong fourm to ask this ****. the rules in the stickys are clear.
"Questions are to be posted in the Q&A forum. If posted anywhere else they will be moved with NO redirects."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry if it's in the wrong thread but I wanted it to be a developer thread so thought here would be the right place as it's Android development. If I'm wrong a mod can move it I guess.
Oh and considering the WP7 Image only takes up like 170mb as the image then from experience of building WinMo ROMs on the diamond it normally stayed around the same size after flashing, normally no more than 20mb more... it's not like WP7 is a big OS or anything from how it looks anyway...

smokeingit said:
Wrong fourm to ask this ****. the rules in the stickys are clear.
"Questions are to be posted in the Q&A forum. If posted anywhere else they will be moved with NO redirects."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your a **** just report it no need to BE ass
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App

From the little I know I think the biggest potential issue currently is magldr only supports 8 yaffs2 partitions. http://htc-linux.org/wiki/index.php?title=Leo/Magldr While that sounds like plenty, I believe android takes up 6 or so and I don't know how many wp7 takes. I don't see why they couldn't add support for more partitions in the future but right now that's an issue. Personally, I want winmo and wp7 on nand and everything else on SD for the ultimate multibooing experience.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

Even I have been thinking about the same. The MAGLDR just has fixed address stored to boot NAND Android and NAND WP7. Can we somehow get to know what can be the address of the end of WP7 so that atleast in a TMOUS HD2 we can utilize the leftover NAND to install Android.

Me I want Android in Nand and everything else is SD - WP7, winmo, Meego, Ubuntu, Yellow Dog, Kitchen sink - all in Sd. Give me that and I will marry you!

ftamember said:
your a **** just report it no need to BE ass
Sent from my Nexus One using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He has every need to point out whenever possible to people that they are posting in wrong section. Its you who are been an ass.
@ OP
It would probably be possible but it would require a new MAGLDR.

Can anyone recommend a rom with lots of internal space

I'm currently using CMYLXGO stock desire rom and i love it but the last few days ive been getting a low memory icon. I look and my phone says 90%. Wierd cause ive deleted many apps and have app2sd as well. I dont know if its me or the rom but I was wondering if anyone can recommend a rom that offers lots of space for apps. For some reason while the icon is up I dont even get emails. If anyone is using app2sd i have a question. When i click on the "phone only" tab it says 21 apps but on the moveable tab it says "no moveable applications found". And on my sd tab it says only 9 apps. How do I move those phone apps to my sd? Maybe that'll clear space.

If your using SD android, (i dont know about nand or ram) Search for toporesize in xda, find [app]windows resize data img maker thread and download the app, then just follow the instructions but backup your img first and don't resize to bigger than 2048mb(2gb).
Then you have larger internal memory with the same rom!
Sent from my HD2
Running AmeriCanAndroid
AOSPHD2GB233CM7

evo1rs said:
Search for toporesize in xda, find [app]windows resize data img maker thread and download the app, then just follow the instructions but backup your img first and don't resize to bigger than 2048mb(2gb).
Then you have larger internal memory with the same rom!
Sent from my HD2
Running AmeriCanAndroid
AOSPHD2GB233CM7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean. Backup your image? Like picture?

Is it an SD build your using?
Sent from my HD2
Running AmeriCanAndroid
AOSPHD2GB233CM7

evo1rs said:
Is it an SD build your using?
Sent from my HD2
Running AmeriCanAndroid
AOSPHD2GB233CM7
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I beleive so. Its a zip on my sd card, if thats what you mean

Ok sorry. I just searched for it and it is nand. Different filesystem setups.
I only use SD card builds so I can still use winmo if I like.
Looking at the thread for your build you need partitions or something.
In which case I'd recommend the rom in my signature.
Sorry for the mix up.
Sent from my HD2
Running AmeriCanAndroid
AOSPHD2GB233CM7

Take a look at my sign

Bingoig11 said:
Take a look at my sign
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh my, I'm loving the look of coredroid but need to research to mke sure it works for tmous and most importantly how to install. Not very savy when it comes to this. Off to read I go...

bx10r said:
Oh my, I'm loving the look of coredroid but need to research to mke sure it works for tmous and most importantly how to install. Not very savy when it comes to this. Off to read I go...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There's a special version for TMOUS and everything is explained so you cannot make a mistake
Enjoy the power dude!!!!!!!!!!!!

so it seems the instructions are cut and dry. One question it doesnt answer. Should I take all my current rom zips out of my sd?

Unless you absolutely positively need sense, I would recommend and AOSP build like this lightning fast gingerbread build: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=918899
sense builds will always tend towards the bloated side. The system partition on the gingerbread build i linked only takes up about 125 mb. vs the 400mb partition that cmylxgo's dhd build takes up

so i went with coredroid and so far so good. I wanna thank you guys for all the suggestions you've provided

[Q] Need a hand/suggestion with choosing a Rom

Hey all its been about 6 months since I was last here, My HD2 currently runs the old Darkstone SD card build, and I love it, But I know since then allot of other developments have been made, I want to now install a Rom directly to my phone (Nand I believe it is?) But I have looked through the roms section and cant find one that is anything like the old darkstone , If anyone can point me out one that is similar and can be used on the Nand I would greatly appreciate it, Thank you.

If you like it clean than try [27.MAR][CWM] NexusHD2-Gingerbread V2.5 [Android2.3.3][Kernel: tytung_r8.3].
A really good Guide how to install NAND ROM you can find here.

Use This..UltimateDroid (Crawlingcity)
I've only had HD2 for a week and I'm a noob, But tried others and this one w/radio rom 2.12.50.02 for battery is the best in my opinion, Very very happy!

DatenThielt said:
Hey all its been about 6 months since I was last here, My HD2 currently runs the old Darkstone SD card build, and I love it, But I know since then allot of other developments have been made, I want to now install a Rom directly to my phone (Nand I believe it is?) But I have looked through the roms section and cant find one that is anything like the old darkstone , If anyone can point me out one that is similar and can be used on the Nand I would greatly appreciate it, Thank you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct me if I am wrong, but installing to NAND would limit you to the amount of apps that you can install since not all apps support Moving to SD. Wouldn't you rather run a newer build, like American Android off your SD?

Neurotica said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but installing to NAND would limit you to the amount of apps that you can install since not all apps support Moving to SD. Wouldn't you rather run a newer build, like American Android off your SD?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm correcting you, you are wrong!
You can create a partition on your SD which extends your internal memory, All user data is pushed there
Majority of roms come with one of various solutions to extend memory.

Not trying to hijack this thread or anything, but I haven't gone the NAND way just because of that limitation that I believed was there! I AM SO GLAD I WAS WRONG!
I guess my next question is, the maximum size of that partition would be...?
I am currently running American Android off SD, is there anything similar to that for NAND?

Neurotica said:
Not trying to hijack this thread or anything, but I haven't gone the NAND way just because of that limitation that I believed was there! I AM SO GLAD I WAS WRONG!
I guess my next question is, the maximum size of that partition would be...?
I am currently running American Android off SD, is there anything similar to that for NAND?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1GB as far as I know. Thats what is recommended by most devs. To partition all you need to do is go into recovery (Clockworkmod) and use the partition feature.
Apps2SD+ = Apps data is pushed to the partition after install or reboot in some cases I think.
Data2SD/Data2Ext = All user data is stored on partition as internal memory is extended.
data.img = Basicaly same as what data.img does on SD build, ie the .img file is used as internal memory.
(I may not be 100% accurate on the above so if anybody has more detail please add)
PS. You should have done a bit of reading, there has been roms with this functionality for ages.

Ultimate Droid 3.1.1 so good.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA Premium App

I did plenty of reading, only problem was that I kept playing safe. Right after that reply of yours I flashed HyperDroid GBX 2.3.3 with CWM and boy I couldn't be happier. I also have the SD card fix on. This thing flies!
I will suggest anyone going for NAND to partition to EXT4 through GParted rather than CWM though. Gingerbread is more stable, compatible and faster with EXT4.
Thanks bud!
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA Premium App

NAND vs. SD method

Hi
A friend of mine asked me if I could put Android on his HD2 as he bought one with German language and he doesn't understand anything at all. Now we wan't to completely remove Windows Mobile 6.5.x from the phone and install Android. ICS with HTC sense is prefered but and older version will also do.
I have found multiple tutorials, but I wonder which method is the best. NAND or SD?
At this point in time we don't have any SD-card in the phone, so I asume the Sd method isn't usable. But which method and ROM is the best to use if we want to be able to switch language and want Android experience as close to the HTC android phones as possible.
Are there any bugs with the HD2 in Android? I've heard that there should be problems with the sound when calling people, and the data-connection should be unstable as well. Are these rumors still current or have they been solved?

CTSRP said:
Hi
A friend of mine asked me if I could put Android on his HD2 as he bought one with German language and he doesn't understand anything at all. Now we wan't to completely remove Windows Mobile 6.5.x from the phone and install Android. ICS with HTC sense is prefered but and older version will also do.
I have found multiple tutorials, but I wonder which method is the best. NAND or SD?
At this point in time we don't have any SD-card in the phone, so I asume the Sd method isn't usable. But which method and ROM is the best to use if we want to be able to switch language and want Android experience as close to the HTC android phones as possible.
Are there any bugs with the HD2 in Android? I've heard that there should be problems with the sound when calling people, and the data-connection should be unstable as well. Are these rumors still current or have they been solved?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok. First of all, Nand is the better of the two. As your friend want to COMPLETELY remove winmo6.5 its better to use NAND. Currently there is no ICS sense rom but the sense gingerbread roms work very smoothly with all features working. So you may want to try that. And dont worry you can change language from german to english. You basically select english at the startup setup.
One more thing. Even when installing the NAND version of android you will need a sd-card. The rom is a .zip file which must be copied to the sd card and this rom will be installed on the phones internal memory hence: NAND.
Hope it helps
Feel free to ask but i suggest you search it first and read more, because clearly you are lacking information

adil1508 said:
Ok. First of all, Nand is the better of the two. As your friend want to COMPLETELY remove winmo6.5 its better to use NAND. Currently there is no ICS sense rom but the sense gingerbread roms work very smoothly with all features working. So you may want to try that. And dont worry you can change language from german to english. You basically select english at the startup setup.
One more thing. Even when installing the NAND version of android you will need a sd-card. The rom is a .zip file which must be copied to the sd card and this rom will be installed on the phones internal memory hence: NAND.
Hope it helps
Feel free to ask but i suggest you search it first and read more, because clearly you are lacking information
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the quick reply. I will read further on how to install using NAND method. But how big should the SD-card be. As said he doesn't have a SD-card in his phone. I have one but it's only 128MB, so not a whole lot. If the phone was using the MiniSD cards instead of microSD I had a 1GB card. But isn't it possible to get a Gingerbread HTC Sense ROM and then extract and repack it on the PC so it can fit the 128MB card. Or are the packed ROM's small enough to fit on a 128MB card?

Tell your friend to invest in about 4GB or more, once you've got a few apps, video video clips, music files and recovery backups then the 4GB will be eaten fairly fast imo. If you grab a class 6 card you can get one for less then $1/GB (aud).

parker09 said:
Tell your friend to invest in about 4GB or more, once you've got a few apps, video video clips, music files and recovery backups then the 4GB will be eaten fairly fast imo. If you grab a class 6 card you can get one for less then $1/GB (aud).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure I'll tell him that. But will the installationsfiles for Android fit on my 128MB card?

CTSRP said:
Sure I'll tell him that. But will the installationsfiles for Android fit on my 128MB card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No.

CTSRP said:
Thanks for the quick reply. I will read further on how to install using NAND method. But how big should the SD-card be. As said he doesn't have a SD-card in his phone. I have one but it's only 128MB, so not a whole lot. If the phone was using the MiniSD cards instead of microSD I had a 1GB card. But isn't it possible to get a Gingerbread HTC Sense ROM and then extract and repack it on the PC so it can fit the 128MB card. Or are the packed ROM's small enough to fit on a 128MB card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Dont forget the thanks button
Anyways, basically the sd card is used to put the rom in and all music, pics, apps etc. will be stored on the sd card. plus, the 128 mb card will not hold the rom. Some files of the rom are installed on the sd card as well(some) so yeah, like the above user said, invest in a class 4 sd card with a fairly high amount of memory.

try the link below, it could give you an idea

You will need an SD card anyhow as mentioned before. Not only for flashing it to Nand, also some ROMs needs an ext(2 or 3) partition on the SD card. Specially when it's an EU device as yours might seems.
F.e.: I got an EU model and the great Energy ROM running - this needs a 1Gb ext(2 or 3) partition on the SD card!
-> It depends on the ROM of your choice.
Right now, I guess there is now ICS ROM with sense out there - or an I wrong?
I can definetly recommend the NRG ROM as this one runs really great. There is also a very good lashing instruction in its thread.
Good luck :good:

Ooh, ooh, me too!!
adil1508 said:
Ok. First of all, Nand is the better of the two. As your friend want to COMPLETELY remove winmo6.5 its better to use NAND. Currently there is no ICS sense rom but the sense gingerbread roms work very smoothly with all features working. So you may want to try that. And dont worry you can change language from german to english. You basically select english at the startup setup.
One more thing. Even when installing the NAND version of android you will need a sd-card. The rom is a .zip file which must be copied to the sd card and this rom will be installed on the phones internal memory hence: NAND.
Hope it helps
Feel free to ask but i suggest you search it first and read more, because clearly you are lacking information
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I also want to completely remove winmo6.5 from my wife's stock UK HTC HD2 and put some form of Android OS on it so I can then get her Ovivo Mobile mobile connection to work (I'm not bothered about dual boot functionality). Could you quickly link to a guide you would recommend to do this ("Thanks" will always be given :good: ).
(Note: I had an HD2 once, and bricked it after 9 months of ownership with a dodgy radio, so I'm a bit once-bitten-twice-shy about doing it).

shaggydabbydo said:
I also want to completely remove winmo6.5 from my wife's stock UK HTC HD2 and put some form of Android OS on it so I can then get her Ovivo Mobile mobile connection to work (I'm not bothered about dual boot functionality). Could you quickly link to a guide you would recommend to do this ("Thanks" will always be given :good: ).
(Note: I had an HD2 once, and bricked it after 9 months of ownership with a dodgy radio, so I'm a bit once-bitten-twice-shy about doing it).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is my favourite guide. It's incredibly simple. You should really search before posting though, it isn't difficult to find.

Thanks
Nigeldg said:
Here is my favourite guide. It's incredibly simple. You should really search before posting though, it isn't difficult to find.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks (and "thanks" added). I did search [and read the "sticky") but there were lots and I got confused as to which one. I'll give the one you recommend a go (which incidentaly did not come up in my [brief] search. :good:

shaggydabbydo said:
(which incidentaly did not come up in my [brief] search. :good:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, you see, it shouldn't be [brief] but [thorough]

Nigeldg said:
Ah, you see, it shouldn't be [brief] but [thorough]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah, but I would have been thoroughly confused with a thorough search, fortunatly I was only briefly confused .