Database Users

Xperia's color gradients smoother than on other devices

There are always complaints on this forum about color banding on the Xperia's 65k display, so I thought that on my new Galaxy Tablet which boasts '16 million' colors in its specs this issue would not be present.
To my surprise, Xperia's color gradients are a lot smoother.
One example would be the XDA app welcome screen which is very smooth on the Xperia's screen, but shows coarse banding on the Galaxy Tab.
The dithering technique on the Xperia seems a lot more sophisticated and I came to question if Android OS is even capable of displaying over 65536 colors at all.
Any insights into the issue?
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App

SE changed it to look better becouse normally it would should look worser with 65k and they didnt implented 16m Colors so they changed this to look better.

Samsung always fudge their numbers.
I remember buying a samsung monitor, which was the most expensive at the time, advertised as 16+ million colours and the thing done some horrible dithering - Everything had dithering on it! EVERYTHING.
The older LCD 16bit monitor it replaced had no noticeable dithering at all and gradient changes were subtle.
I've never bought a Samsuck product again.
The samsung galaxy S is also doing some weird stuff with its colours, it's blacks are fantastic but everything else is bleh!! and the pixels are about 10X bigger than the X10s.

The color from 1.6 were noticeably garbage....alot of my favorite wallpapers looked like **** with lines all over....I couldn't even use them. Then SE announced they would not be giving us 16M colors in 2.1 so I was pissed! BUT! I didn't know they were going to do something with the colors...because whatever they did they most certainly did a damn good job because the colors in 2.1 are phenominal! ALL the wallpapers I choose look AWESOME! As for Samsung....I think there super amoled screen is overated...I just sold my Galaxy S to return to the X10...the screen is really nice on the Galaxy, but like I said before the higher resolution on the X10 makes it a very VERY close match IMO.

Mr Patchy Patch said:
I just sold my Galaxy S to return to the X10...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Applause!!!

Mr Patchy Patch said:
...I just sold my Galaxy S to return to the X10....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Good call!

im_iceman said:
Good call!
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Click to collapse
Yes...now next time someone tries to brag about having a galaxy....i can laugh in there face lol.
Sent from my X10a using XDA App

cytokine said:
There are always complaints on this forum about color banding on the Xperia's 65k display, so I thought that on my new Galaxy Tablet which boasts '16 million' colors in its specs this issue would not be present.
To my surprise, Xperia's color gradients are a lot smoother.
One example would be the XDA app welcome screen which is very smooth on the Xperia's screen, but shows coarse banding on the Galaxy Tab.
The dithering technique on the Xperia seems a lot more sophisticated and I came to question if Android OS is even capable of displaying over 65536 colors at all.
Any insights into the issue?
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
a bit off topic....can you post a pic of your X10 next to the galaxy tab.Want to see the size comparison

Yes....dark blacks aside, the colors in the SGS are too oversaturated and a pain on the eye. Also, all the AMOLED screens have a strange greenish-blue tint to the colours - I have nticed this in all AMOLEDs, right from the Nokia N86 to the Samsung Wave to the SGS...

bbsrailfan said:
Yes....dark blacks aside, the colors in the SGS are too oversaturated and a pain on the eye. Also, all the AMOLED screens have a strange greenish-blue tint to the colours - I have nticed this in all AMOLEDs, right from the Nokia N86 to the Samsung Wave to the SGS...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol I thought it was just me that saw that weird tint to the colors. It is really noticeable when you compare it to our screens.
Sent from my X10i using XDA App

mith500 said:
a bit off topic....can you post a pic of your X10 next to the galaxy tab.Want to see the size comparison
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't have much in terms of a proper photo equipment, but there you go.
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Heavy banding on gradients

So I just installed "the impossible game" on my brand new SGS2 and discovered there's some banding on the gradient in this game, which was not here with my Nexus One (AMOLED).
Has anyone else noticed that ? do you think it can be fixed later on (I know supercurio did some work on the first SGS's rendering) ?
edit : I'm only talking about the horizontal banding (the circular moiré is caused by the glass and visible only on the camera). Also I tried changing the brightness and background rendering but nothing helped.
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So I'm the only one experiencing that ?
I hope my phone is not faulty because I've already rooted it so I guess I can't return it anymore :-/

BlueScreenJunky said:
So I'm the only one experiencing that ?
I hope my phone is not faulty because I've already rooted it so I guess I can't return it anymore :-/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not got that app i'm afraid...if it was just you then you can always flash back to the standard o2 sortware, removing the root. then using a jig remove the custom binary count...thus restoring your warranty
Rumble

Try checking the loading screen for the XDA app. It should be a nice gradient of brown but I remember it was HEAVILY banded on the Atrix.
Roger should chime in with more info on this =)

No need to use an app to test:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php
I find it hard to believe that they've gone through all that to make the best display in the field and then limited it to 16bit colors (I believe super amoled has 24bit?)

Phew, it's not just me! The two things I'm disappointed with on this phone are the screen issues and the battery life. Other than that, it's incredible.
Let's hope for major firmware upgrades and dev support!

murklor said:
No need to use an app to test:
http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanx for the link. And of course we don't need to test on an app, I just happened to notice on this particular game, and thought it was best to avoid comparing with the browser or gallery since they could be faulty themselves (the gallery used to cause banding on the Nexus One).
I really hope it can be fixed later... I keep reading the screen is fantastic, but it doesn't look so good now (maybe it's better than pentile Matrix though)

I don't have a SGSII but you are certainly not alone, I've read a lot about this banding issue - remember reading somewhere about the possibility that it may infact be 16bit at the moment.

dinan said:
Try checking the loading screen for the XDA app. It should be a nice gradient of brown but I remember it was HEAVILY banded on the Atrix.
Roger should chime in with more info on this =)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
heh well i'll give my unofficial opinion is that your nexus one is running the latest 2.3.3 GB which fixed the nexus one's 16 bit color banding issue. did that game show banding on your nexus one last year?
anyway my opinion theory is the super amoled plus screen is still not 24 bit color yet, probably only 16 bit like the n1 was. i cant prove this though, so take as you wish.
the nexus one on the XDA app, the spalsh screen showed lots of banding for all last year. after the 2.3.3 update the banding is finally gone on the nexus one. and google admitted that the 2.3.3 update finally brought the n1 up from 16 bit color.
so my guess is the new amoled+ wasnt finalized yet, like the n1 originally, so the SGS2 is only 16 bit color in its current firmware version.

Very disappointing, I'll stay away from the phone for now and I hope they'll fix this as soon as possible! I feared that something like this would happen when I saw the GLBenchmark data (or something like that, which stated that it's 16-bit anyway). Good to hear that the N1 had the same problem and it got fixed, though!

flooki said:
Very disappointing, I'll stay away from the phone for now and I hope they'll fix this as soon as possible! I feared that something like this would happen when I saw the GLBenchmark data (or something like that, which stated that it's 16-bit anyway). Good to hear that the N1 had the same problem and it got fixed, though!
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Click to collapse
It really isn't that noticeable, you can't see it under normal use when you're holding the phone at a normal distance.

Totally liveable in the short run knowing that it will get fixed. From the speed and quantity of updates, I'm guessing Samsung's trying to repair the black eye they got for pretty much ignoring the SGS.

LarcusMywood said:
It really isn't that noticeable, you can't see it under normal use when you're holding the phone at a normal distance.
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Click to collapse
I disagree, it's very noticeable when you have any image that has a gradient. Every time I load up the XDA app, or fire up Stupid Zombies, it's right there plain as day.
Very annoying.

yeah. it's plain obvious. for that game, i have to set the quality to low, so that the banding disappears

omg, you got to be kidding me... even my android-loaded HD2, which is definitely suffering from a hardware limit of 65536 colors, shows less banding, much less shall I say, than this supposedly 16M colored monster?? :-(

this issue wouldnt stop me from keeping the SGS2. but there were lots of specific test images used on the nexus one to highlight the issue.
in fact here is the article with test images you guys can try on your SGS2. at the time of this article, the pentile pixel matrix was the highlight. but a year later the 2.3.3 update kinda proved that the banding was NOT related to the pixels, since its totally fixed now.
interesting read nonetheless.
http://www.displaymate.com/Nexus_One_ShootOut.htm

After testing a bit more, the photo I took in the first post is THE most obvious case of banding I could find. The gradient in xda, or the one at http://www.lagom.nl/lcd-test/gradient.php are not perfect, but they don't look THAT bad.
edit : And yeah, it's not enough for me to return the phone, and I'd buy it again knowing that, but it's still annoying, especially since they insisted so much on the quality of the SAMOLED+ screen.

It's purely a software bug. I'm almost certain the physical display can handle these gradients.
On my Nexus One/S if I view that sunset on mars photo in the stock android gallery I get all that banding. If I use another gallery like QuickPic, no banding at all.
It's a similar bug when setting home page wallpapers. You get quite a bit of banding doing it the stock way, but using wallpaper set & save to set the background eliminates banding.

It's not the screen, it's the rom, the browser is set/capped to 16 bits. The gallery however actually displays in 24 bits.
This issue can be fixed with a custom rom, it's probably set to 16 bits to allow smoother web browsing, which is totally stupid because the processor is totally capable of handling smooth browsing with 24 bits display.

There is color cap in WP7, currently with some tweak my Focus does display 24bit color in Pictures hub but 16bit in any browser related app. You people may want to try more.

Do the note have banding?

Hi
I was wondering if someone who have got the device can say us if the device have banding as the SGS 2 or with the different screen (not plus), now it works fine.
example without banding
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S2 Banding

kersh said:
Hi
I was wondering if someone who have got the device can say us if the device have banding as the SGS 2 or with the different screen (not plus), now it works fine.
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Click to collapse
Ahhhhhh, mine has vertical banding, especially apparent on the Maps app. Its as if you are looking through a screen door. I assume it is a manufacturing issue. Don't really want to send it back to the UK, as I'm from the US. Any fix for this??? Coming from the iphone4 screen, this is unacceptable. Is anyone else noticing this on their Note? The banding on my phone is vertical, unlike the pic above.

kersh said:
Hi
I was wondering if someone who have got the device can say us if the device have banding as the SGS 2 or with the different screen (not plus), now it works fine.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see the same banding on the note.
I've been running this and that - didn't notice till you pointed that out. (although I hadn't run angry birds yet)
I have seen it in one other game, but not in any the apps or anything else. I wonder if it's a scaling bug.
- Frank

ChodTheWacko said:
I see the same banding on the note.
I've been running this and that - didn't notice till you pointed that out. (although I hadn't run angry birds yet)
I have seen it in one other game, but not in any the apps or anything else. I wonder if it's a scaling bug.
- Frank
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, sorry, its something you tend not to notice unless you are looking for it. I have found that turning up the brightness helps a lot. My only complaint about this phone.

From what I see, there is banding in the first one too, but it is less noticeable because the patchwork effect is quite apparent.

Anybody tried to change the dpi value to see what happens. Banding appears on my sgs2 too, but only when I lower the dpi value under 240, so I guess it might be a scaling issue.

This stuff is complicated as there are various reasons:
-some apps or games are using 16bit pictures which will show banding anyway
-Samsung throws in a sharpness filter/colours boost that... boost banding
-pentile display is suspected to cause some banding in particular conditions (I'm not completely sure about that)

Tatsuya79 said:
This stuff is complicated as there are various reasons:
-some apps or games are using 16bit pictures which will show banding anyway
-Samsung throws in a sharpness filter/colours boost that... boost banding
-pentile display is suspected to cause some banding in particular conditions (I'm not completely sure about that)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Third one seems like a moot point, SGSII has the same branding on a regular RGB display. As far as I know, it might not even be a screen issue. Many SGSII users reported that this branding is apparent in screenshots too. That would suggest that it's a display driver issue, maybe Mali is producing only 16bit colours to achieve high benchmark scores. Just maybe...

Found this, may give it a try once I'm rooted, anyone used this??? I really do not want to have to send this phone back to the UK...
https://market.android.com/details?id=org.projectvoodoo.screentunedev

Might be software related. If the screen were the problem, you wouldn't even be able to capture the banding in a direct framegrab

VTEChump said:
Ahhhhhh, mine has vertical banding, especially apparent on the Maps app. Its as if you are looking through a screen door. I assume it is a manufacturing issue. Don't really want to send it back to the UK, as I'm from the US. Any fix for this??? Coming from the iphone4 screen, this is unacceptable. Is anyone else noticing this on their Note? The banding on my phone is vertical, unlike the pic above.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To clarify, I think vertical banding is a separate issue.

I see very slight banding in gradients, but none visible in google Maps. It's not nearly as bad as on the SGS.
I set my dpi down from 320 to 280.

VTEChump said:
Found this, may give it a try once I'm rooted, anyone used this??? I really do not want to have to send this phone back to the UK...
https://market.android.com/details?id=org.projectvoodoo.screentunedev
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried, the note is not supported. I send a message to the developer requesting support.
When it comes to banding, those are my observations:
Generally the device seemes to be able to display color gradients very finely, no annoying banding. You can observe so when looking at a photo in the gallery or a video.
However the same picture will not display so finely in the browser, especially when tapping, zooming and moving.
Also some applications like skype show very visible and annoying banding, even in video.
So it appears to me this is a software issue and not a hardware issue, meaning it can be fixed.
Does anyone have more experience with banding and of possible ways to fix it?
I have the impression in many cases it is not the application itself causing it since the same app displays fine on other devices, but the way the system is configured.

Nobody seems bothered by the display's sharpening artifacts? Amazing!

This is very obvious the first few hours using the phone. Horrible sharpening halos around texts most noticeable on gray and non white backgrounds. It kills the black contrast of the text as well making it look gray and not to mention a pain to read. You can spot it easily in browser forums here: http://forums.anandtech.com/showthread.php?t=2250376 and here: http://forums.hardwarezone.com.sg/hardware-clinic-2/
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It looks even worse in than that in actual use.
Am I the only one bothered by this?

I used to feel that aswell on my Acer GD245HQ when i was like 2 cm from it, then i got glasses and standed at a normal distance and they disapear

Supercurio is busy working his magic for the display a few of his tweets:
"with tuned sharpening, perceived sharpness can be nicely improved, sans visible artefacts"
"image processor from GS3 is from a newer generation than any existing devices, adding finer controls over useful parameters"
"settings are clearly over-cooked (not the first time and no preset is reasonable /accurate) it's perfect for Display Expert"
He's also addressing black crush etc...
Sent from my CM9 TouchPad

LeviathanPT said:
I used to feel that aswell on my Acer GD245HQ when i was like 2 cm from it, then i got glasses and standed at a normal distance and they disapear
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Click to collapse
i agree. unless it is norm to put your phone very near your eyes,use a magnifying lens or microscope when using your phone daily.

I just viewed the linked pages on my gs3 and I'm having a very hard time seeing what you're talking about. How does the text look remotely grey? And what halos? Text is sharp and easy to read even when zoomed out a fair bit. As you'd expect since it's a 300+ ppi screen.
Are you talking about the anti-aliasing? You don't want the font to be anti-aliased or something? Even in your magnified photo, I can't see what the problem is?

jonathanyong said:
I just viewed the linked pages on my gs3 and I'm having a very hard time seeing what you're talking about. How does the text look remotely grey? And what halos? Text is sharp and easy to read even when zoomed out a fair bit. As you'd expect since it's a 300+ ppi screen.
Are you talking about the anti-aliasing? You don't want the font to be anti-aliased or something? Even in your magnified photo, I can't see what the problem is?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't the anti alisaing. I increased the contrast a little to show the problem more clearly.
Notice the halos around the characters? Still dont know what is wrong? In browser tap menu, brightness and colors, select level 1 power saving. This makes the display color a little bluish but also eliminates the sharpening and makes the text much better looking as it should. Compare it to default and see if you notice a difference.

radeonxt said:
i agree. unless it is norm to put your phone very near your eyes,use a magnifying lens or microscope when using your phone daily.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dont need a magnifying glass or bring the my device close to see the effect. Its perfectly visible at my normal reading distance.

Yes, I see it. Doesn't bother me at all.
Sent from my GT-I9300 using xda premium

After a while you dont even notice it anymore, seems natural, but as said above, supercurio is working on some tools to help out

nativestranger said:
It isn't the anti alisaing. I increased the contrast a little to show the problem more clearly.
Notice the halos around the characters? Still dont know what is wrong? In browser tap menu, brightness and colors, select level 1 power saving. This makes the display color a little bluish but also eliminates the sharpening and makes the text much better looking as it should. Compare it to default and see if you notice a difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok I see it now. I can't really see that without the magnified and enhanced pic though. I think I can see a slight difference when using level 1 power saving but it's really difficult to know for sure. My eyes must be terrible!
Sent from my Samsung Galaxy SIII via Tapatalk

Maybe this phone needs to be used with Google Glasses?

SiNJiN76 said:
Maybe this phone needs to be used with Google Glasses?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
SGS3D ?

Let's complain about everything! Anyone else notice the white isn't really white? It's more of a off white! Wtf Samsung!
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2

bloodrain954 said:
Let's complain about everything! Anyone else notice the white isn't really white? It's more of a off white! Wtf Samsung!
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Please keep this thread related to the original topic, if you want to discuss if your screen is white or something else go here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1658601
Thanks

LeviathanPT said:
Please keep this thread related to the original topic, if you want to discuss if your screen is white or something else go here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1658601
Thanks
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He was making a joke..........

doronster195 said:
He was making a joke..........
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah sorry im too sensitive today ..

bloodrain954 said:
Let's complain about everything! Anyone else notice the white isn't really white? It's more of a off white! Wtf Samsung!
Sent from my HTC One X using Tapatalk 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think this is a legitimate issue. I can see the poor text rendering in all lighting conditions unlike complains about imperfect blacks that can only be seem in pitch dark conditions. Joking aside the poor whites are also an issue.

I am also really annoyed by the over sharpening. I hope displayexpert is released soon and takes care of the issue..

Guancho said:
I am also really annoyed by the over sharpening. I hope displayexpert is released soon and takes care of the issue..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me too. Really, really annoying, but let's just wait for supercurio to do his magic.

Just another HOX buyers remorse thread. Move along.

Compressed Images while Browsing?

I noticed while browsing the other day that images seem to be compressed to some degree, regardless of browser used. I've tried Chrome, Firefox, Firefox beta, and Dolphin. All seem to display compressed images. I find this a little odd as the Nexus is a WiFi device, I cant see a need to have anything compressed. Kinda defeats the purpose of this glorious screen. Any ideas why this is? I guess an easy example is an image that has a gradient to it. The gradient isnt smooth, it seems like it has sections to it.
Any ideas - and is this normal?

cdgtcc said:
I noticed while browsing the other day that images seem to be compressed to some degree, regardless of browser used. I've tried Chrome, Firefox, Firefox beta, and Dolphin. All seem to display compressed images. I find this a little odd as the Nexus is a WiFi device, I cant see a need to have anything compressed. Kinda defeats the purpose of this glorious screen. Any ideas why this is? I guess an easy example is an image that has a gradient to it. The gradient isnt smooth, it seems like it has sections to it.
Any ideas - and is this normal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Post a screenshot so we can see it, but I suspect the epic resolution of the screen and relative closer distance make you notice image compression more than on a lower res monitor viewed from a moderate distance. 2560 x 1600 is HUGE, imagine the kind of images sites would require just to fill half the screen. Most sites are still optimized for 800 x ***.

Heres a screenshot. I had to resize since the resolution is massive lol. This is a photo on my site that is in 12 megapixel glory. I would imagine stuff like that should look incredible on this tab, but I was a little disappointed. Notice the artifacts/gradient in the door shadows.
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cdgtcc said:
Heres a screenshot. I had to resize since the resolution is massive lol. This is a photo on my site that is in 12 megapixel glory. I would imagine stuff like that should look incredible on this tab, but I was a little disappointed. Notice the artifacts/gradient in the door shadows.
I looked at the site on my desktop and on the tablet. I'm pretty sure it is your website that is downsizing the images (making the browser render them smaller to fit on the screen) which results in the details you are seeing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

barqer said:
cdgtcc said:
Heres a screenshot. I had to resize since the resolution is massive lol. This is a photo on my site that is in 12 megapixel glory. I would imagine stuff like that should look incredible on this tab, but I was a little disappointed. Notice the artifacts/gradient in the door shadows.
I looked at the site on my desktop and on the tablet. I'm pretty sure it is your website that is downsizing the images (making the browser render them smaller to fit on the screen) which results in the details you are seeing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Funny enough, it's actually the opposite i think.
I don't have a nexus 10, but it's a hi res device right? Like the retinia ipad? The issue isn't the website compressing it or it getting downsized, the issue is that the image actually has to be scaled up by the browser to look correct on your device. The same thing happens on my mac book on certain sites that haven't been updated for hi res displays and i hear it's the same on the retina ipads.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

What's the resolution of the photo on the site? I'm seeing 1280x852, which is a good bit smaller then the N10's native 2560x1600 resolution, but then again I don't quite know too much about this

It's definitely a software issue. Either client side or server side. It feels like a bandwidth saving feature with the low res pictures even on desktop mode. I've compared sites with my desktop which I run a Dell 30 (same res as N10) and I don't get this problem.

i hope the popularity of hi-res screens encourage web designers to use appropriate graphics

It's not exactly a compression problem but a color depth problem. Something is causing the site to render in 16-bit color, and that creates some serious banding artifacts.

Koguchi9 said:
It's definitely a software issue. Either client side or server side. It feels like a bandwidth saving feature with the low res pictures even on desktop mode. I've compared sites with my desktop which I run a Dell 30 (same res as N10) and I don't get this problem.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you running your browser full screen? Is there blank space to the left and right of the page? If not, maximize the window and zoom in until there's no space on the sides (Ctrl+ on most browsers). Otherwise its not a fair test since that's what tablet browsers do.

wireroid said:
It's not exactly a compression problem but a color depth problem. Something is causing the site to render in 16-bit color, and that creates some serious banding artifacts.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
^This. That does more accurately reflect what im seeing.
Jotokun said:
Are you running your browser full screen? Is there blank space to the left and right of the page? If not, maximize the window and zoom in until there's no space on the sides (Ctrl+ on most browsers). Otherwise its not a fair test since that's what tablet browsers do.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Browser is running full screen. Although Im leaning more towards just a firefox issue. I checked again vs chrome and firefox and it seems its just the fox that has this problem.