Database Users

why i dont like the pay system at the market

So in all of my pda/mobile net/devices/phones(which are 1 in the same, these days) an experience which started in about 1999 with a palm IIIx a 2nd gen Moto Startac, the first thing I ad software wise is ui enhancments/replacements so despite a long history of piracy, only buying apps that stand the test of time 30 days isn't enough in most cases...
I bought dxtop, ahome (may 2nd have that name wrong) and dxtop seems the best of the 2 so far and does an ok job of fixing the horrible ui, 1 mean 1 big huge "junk drawer" of apps, and 3 desktops(my least favorite method of app orginization) feels very basic and unfinished, why no folders in the junk drawer?... but dxtop takes a long time on my system, I do have lotsa memory resident apps and I'm looking to trim that down...
The price is minimal, but
What does everybody else think,
Don't talk about warez, as that's not the issue, getting a good working market is.
I may have read that there is a return period, but I dunno anything about it, let's talk this out maybe the right people read it.
Bhang

So let me get this straight... you hate the pay system because of the default UI? Not to be an ass but I found no reasons about why you hate it other than the fact that you don't like the default UI and that dxtop is slow for you.
Care to elaborate?

Honestly, I'm confused by the post. I don't see the relation between not liking the default UI and the pay system at the market.
As for the return period:
http://market.android.com/support/bin/answer.py?answer=134336&topic=15871
24 hours.

I think bhang's complaint is that 24 hours is not a lot of time to trial an app. I agree...
Fortunately ahome, dxTop and openhome have all provided fairly functional free trial versions.

you are all right I wasnt so clear...
My point is I had an app I wanted to try out, dxtop (in full) so I bought it, now maybe the app isnt the solution to the ui issues I'm having, but I cant get my couple bucks back, unless there is a "return period" im unaware of. 24 hours, if I did nothing but investigate the app for the entire 24 hours, I wouldnt be able to find every nook, crannie or flaw, or have any idea of the usefulness of the app.
Are we expected to buy everything then figure out whats worth it ? whats working out for us...?
my question is how can we get to give apps a good run before we buy them outside 24 hours or the goodOl'e 30 day trials, or crippleware.
the point to remember about my post is:
"Friends dont let friends smoke a bunch of ak-47 and then try post on a technical site"
bhang

Well there's two issues at play. One from the developer side and one from the market side.
From the developer side, many do provide trial/lite versions for testing. From the market side you're lucky to have an opprotunity for refund at all.
Have you ever tried returning opened software to a B&M store? Most won't do anything and those that will tend only to do exchanges. Compare that to the fruit themed application market where, unless something changed recently, the policy is no refunds period.
So in the scope of the software world a blanket 24 hour testing/refund period is very generous and it's up to the developer to go beyond that on their own.

Im not saying that I have any idea on how to make the issues fixed for the DEVs and the END users, The corporations I could care less about, alot of the developers do offer free versions or crippled versions, in the crippled versions you don't know what those other features are like, of course they always sound great, and the free versions are nothing more than the betas that came out before charging was implemented....
I want DEVs to get paid when the apps are good well written and useful, I just dont think the market as it is works, so Ill do what I have always done, test the FULL version as long as I want, then buy the apps that hold up/ stand the test of time, most apps look great the first couple of tries, it when you get to know them do you see the flaws, alot like HUMAN interaction, maybe if I keep posting, I can dump the head shrinker and his 40$ copay
like all software distrobution methods (other than GNU/GPL) are broken

[Q] Do most Android users not download paid apps?

I'm working on a couple Android apps and haven't yet decided if I'd like to charge for some (something small like .99 or 1.99 USD), or make them free but have ads in them. I was leaning towards charging for them, but I noticed that Angry birds is a paid app on the iPhone, whereas the Android version is free and has ads. I thought this was interesting and I'm curious whether iPhone users are more interested in paid apps than Android users are. Anyone know anything about this?

They made Angry Birds available for free because they want everyone to play it, they are gonna make a paid-app later that removes the ads. I would gladly pay for that game even if I can get it for free.
So I actually don't think that iPhone users is more interesting in paid-apps than Android users.
Make one free app with ads and then have a paid-version that removes the adds, that way everyone can download and use it whether they are in a country with or without paid-apps. Or you can make a "premium" app that has more features than the free one. Just a couple of suggestions
When paid-apps wasn't available in Sweden, I got so frustrated on apps that were only available for paid-apps-countrys and had no free alternative with ads or less features and stuff.
Hope this helps.
EDIT:
And remember, if the apps are good quality they will probably sell, people don't want to pay for apps that look like crap and have no functionality. And also, have screenshots in Market because people want to be ale to check out how the apps looks and stuff before they make a purchase or download it

I used to try crippleware/nagware/adware on my PC and use a lot of it on my phone. I don't need a lot of apps so I don't buy many but I try hundreds.
Over the years, I have acquired lots of apps for my WinMo phone, many of which I still miss, INCLUDING A SIMPLE "PHONE TO OUTLOOK" APP! Make that app happen on Android and I will pay for it AND I won't mind iif you want to still collect ad revenue from it.

I bought all apps that were available as adware to remove the ads. Half my apps are paid apps. If the price is reasonable I have no problem paying for the app and supporting the developer.

I myself will only pay for what I feel are essential apps or if I feel the developer really just loves the community; I don't generally mind ads, but sometimes will be so annoyed i will buy the paid version.
Apps ive paid for up to this point:
Launcher Pro
Root Explorer
Rom Manager
Better Keyboard (Before i had swype)
Widget Locker
Set CPU
Chomp SMS (Really wish I didn't as the developer seems to be very confrontational with users)
I have donated to the following:
Smooth Calendar
Anderweb
and a few others ive sent a few dollars to for being supportive and not berrating their customers for not wanting to pay.

I do pay for apps if the price is reasonable . I think the most I have paid for an app is ~5 bucks

I've bought 3 apps for my phone so far. LauncherPro, BeautifulWidgets and SNesoid. Both Snesoid and LauncherPro have "trial" versions with limited functionality (but unlimited usage), whereas BW you just have to flat-out pay for.
I am definitely more inclined to purchase an app if I have chance to try it out first, if for no other reason than to make sure that it works correctly on my phone before I buy it, so having a locked-down version for free (and I mean, leave out some features for PRO users only), as well as maybe ads is probably a good move. that way you might get some money from ads in the free version, and a lump sum if the app is purchased.
Zeb

panguin said:
Right. Cause **** all those people who put in time and effort to make my phone do the things I want it to do, right? Bunch of no good leeching assholes. How DARE they try and collect recompense for all their hard work!
/s
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I agree 100%. I've paid for about 10 apps thus far and not just to remove ads, but to support the developer's efforts.

Yeah ive bought a lot of things, and like they are saying make a paid version and a trail to show people how it is if they like they will pay.

ya...i buy too.....
my phone
i`ve spend ~400€ on my phone and now spend more for apps?! no...not me!
one of the things who lead me to buy an android was the "open source thing".
i won`t ever buy an app for it!
allways search for a open source app that suits me instead of buying something.
ya, ya, ya...we must pay for all hard work and bla, bla, bla...so...by an WM or an iPhone
look at the example given. Angry Birds.
another? swype...allways beta
just my 5cents

i buy paid games and launcher pro plus as well ans a few other apps that are
payable and to all you people that say you support the xda but you have unpaid full app like pirating them you people suck. if you support something you shouldn't feel bad sending a few bucks to the dev.

rendeiro2005 said:
ya...i buy too.....
my phone
i`ve spend ~400€ on my phone and now spend more for apps?! no...not me!
one of the things who lead me to buy an android was the "open source thing".
i won`t ever buy an app for it!
allways search for a open source app that suits me instead of buying something.
ya, ya, ya...we must pay for all hard work and bla, bla, bla...so...by an WM or an iPhone
look at the example given. Angry Birds.
another? swype...allways beta
just my 5cents
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Click to collapse
And yet you have a 'Donate to me' button. Well no support for you I guess.
I will always pay for an app if it's something I need or want. I generally like to buy from apps made by devs not companies who charge outrageous amounts for something. Like Documents To Go, if I had the knowledge I'd make the exact same thing for free and I guarantee people would donate to support my effort instead of charging $16, $17, $25 for an app.
So far I've bought:
SetCPU (even though you can get it for free in the thread here)
Rom Manager
'File Copy'
SU File Explorer
Mini Info
Some LWP's
Some games
and about 7 or so other apps

For me it's simple - I will spend my money on a good, quality app. I've got quite a few apps, and I love the fact that Google's market gives you the 24 hour trial period - so how can you go wrong?

I've paid for a lot of apps. About 90% of them I don't even use anymore.
I wouldn't charge too much for it. That would only lead to people paying, copying the apk, then refunding... Sadly.

ante0 said:
I've paid for a lot of apps. About 90% of them I don't even use anymore.
I wouldn't charge too much for it. That would only lead to people paying, copying the apk, then refunding... Sadly.
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Wow, I had never thought of that before

JGeZau said:
Wow, I had never thought of that before
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Good thing though is that they don't get updates...
More and more apps use license check now though, forcing you to redownload the app (Which I have noticed everytime I restore apps using Titanium backup). Which in that case wouldn't be possible since you refunded it
Google should make some license check too, everytime you open up the market it should check for apps that need licenses (i.e. paid apps), if none is found it could force you to uninstall it and not let you use the market until you have done so.

I think most people on this site are more willing to pay for apps then if you looked at some other forums because this is a forum for developers and they know the hard work that goes into these products. I buy a lot of apps, most under $3.00, If I don't find an app I want then I buy a soda there's not much of a price difference and people buy sodas millions of times a day so I don't see why so many people are so hesitant to buy apps. I think there needs to be an Android gift card like an iTunes card but that's for a different thread.

ante0 said:
Good thing though is that they don't get updates...
More and more apps use license check now though, forcing you to redownload the app (Which I have noticed everytime I restore apps using Titanium backup). Which in that case wouldn't be possible since you refunded it
Google should make some license check too, everytime you open up the market it should check for apps that need licenses (i.e. paid apps), if none is found it could force you to uninstall it and not let you use the market until you have done so.
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Yeah, I imagined they wouldn't get updates, but I wouldn't do it, I support Android development

I have paid for three applications, because they were the single best applications that delivered the most functionality.

This post has got me wondering, what sort of money would you expect to get from adverts and if there was an ad blocker installed on the phone would you still get paid? In other words would you get paid for having the advert built in or just on a paid per click basis?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

Im happy about theAndroud Market new 15 minute return policy

I think the reason that the policy was put in place is to entice developers (especially game developers) to port their ios games over to android...One of their main complaints was that people were buying their games and beating them in 24 hours and then returning the game. Hopefully this confidence building policy enables more of the top teir ios games to appear on our (better) platform. I would be pissed id google just arbitrarily placed a new policy on the market just for kicks, and it doesnt appear that they are seeing as how NFS Shift has finally arrived on the market for anything other than verizon phones. Developers like Gameloft need to be better represented in the market because not everyone can access third party sites to download games (cough) AT&T (cough). So I hope this is some grand plan to bring more quality games to our OS

AT&T doesnt allow you guys third party downloads? That kind of sucks.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

I agree with the sentiment that 24 hours is too long but 15 minutes is far too short. That is barely enough time to even boot up the new program and see its core functions. I'd say an hour would be a legitimate, fair amount of time. I made a lot of use of the 24 hour policy when I was looking for a better software keyboard for my MyTouch. I'd download one, use it for a few hours and if I didn't like it, I'd try a different one. How could I possibly get any sort of valuable use out of software after 15 minutes?

Hey all,
I think that 4 hours or so, at least, would be decent. I mean, some apps, I am sure, wouldn't even be able top process a new user registration and email confirmation before the trial is up - so it wouldn't even be possible to use it in time...
I am indifferent either way, but I definitly agree that 15 minutes is pushing it.
So, if you download a new app, and get phone call, you can't take it or you'llo miss your trial!
Funny,
Matt!

I purchase apps that quite often cost $50 and up. 15 minutes is not enough time to evaluate a professional piece of software.
Sent from hell...

I think its short my self, I think the dev should be able to set the return time they want 15min-24hrs. Think about those game loft games that take 20 minutes to download the additional 200 mb of game data after the initial install. You can't even run the game because of that.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

+1 on this, would make sense to vary depending on the app... also shows confidence in their work on the part of devs if say they give you a day for a batt monitor or something.... 30 mins for a widget that's self explanitory.

Some people on Twitter were complaining that some larger EA games took longer than the 15m to download, then wouldn't open at all... kinda lame.

This should be based on the category that it resides in within the market. Games should have a 1-4 hour window so that you can make sure there aren't critical bugs with your specific phone. Software Libraries/Utilities should have the old 24 hour window. After all, if you are trying out a utility like Tasker, you will need more time to make sure that it works with the situations you need it for. Since the market already has things broken down into categories, this would help. Perhaps it would also help against people mislabeling the category their app falls into.

1-4 hours is a reasonable timeframe, but the high end games should only show up in the market for phones that meet certain minimum specs. That would cut back on most of the refunds due to incompatible hardware (need for speed shift or asphalt 5 on a mytouch 3g) the developers could also list minimum specs that their games need to run.

dee32181 said:
1-4 hours is a reasonable timeframe, but the high end games should only show up in the market for phones that meet certain minimum specs. That would cut back on most of the refunds due to incompatible hardware (need for speed shift or asphalt 5 on a mytouch 3g) the developers could also list minimum specs that their games need to run.
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Click to collapse
theres a way for a dev of any app and any game to only put there app or game in the market when coding the product. i beilve its one or 2 lines of code.

Yeah, limiting the app to certain devices is relativly easy.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App

Is it just my imagination or did a bunch of apps show up in the market with expensive price tags or increased prices?
Sent from hell...

[Q] Request for feedback: increasing my app usage

Hi all,
As a new dev in the android ecosystem, I am looking for other devs feedback on the following.
I have an app with about a few thousands user base. Growing slightly, but also with a decreasing active ratio.
As my revenue is ads driven, I'd like to experiment a few tricks to encourage users to use the app more, without being too intrusive.
A few ideas:
- show a notification after a few days that the app hasn't been used, to encourage the user using it again.
- feature: user can share the app's install page with friends (stimulate organic growth), via a share intent.
-> Devs, any stories on trying something similar?
Any feedback appreciated.

I'm a new developer, old-time programmer. Put 2 apps out December 21, 2009 and I'm approaching a whopping 30 sales; be happy you have 1,000+ (or more)
Wish I could help with the question, but I'm not really sure how to expose apps to a wider audience. I've thought about porting to iPhone/iPad and Windows Mobile to expand my user base. But I'm still pretty new to Android development and want to get more into it before learning yet another programming language right now.
I've actually thought of going to local bars and trying to strike-up conversations with people using smartphones and showing them my apps. Maybe buy them a drink LOL.
I firmly believe that if you have a solid working app and one person uses it, they may tell 5 of their friends and maybe 2 of them will buy it and tell 5 more people of which 1 or 2 might but it. Pyramid type sales but it's slow moving.
What kind of bothers me is all the damn FREE apps out there; I think they should be segregated from the Google Market; I've yet to go to any type of Market and get something for free! LOL And I wonder about free apps sometimes. Take SMS pop-up or whatever it's called. It's a decent app...it's free. I saw it at "over 250,000 downloads". Well, why didn't they charge $1.00 or $0.50 for it (do the math, I'll take $125,000!!). Any possibility it's forwarding people's text messages? Just sayn'

adn37 said:
A few ideas:
- show a notification after a few days that the app hasn't been used, to encourage the user using it again.
- feature: user can share the app's install page with friends (stimulate organic growth), via a share intent.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your first option sounds REALLY annoying. Your second option sounds perfectly fine. See later on for further points on what might help.
Rootstonian said:
What kind of bothers me is all the damn FREE apps out there; I think they should be segregated from the Google Market; I've yet to go to any type of Market and get something for free! LOL And I wonder about free apps sometimes. Take SMS pop-up or whatever it's called. It's a decent app...it's free. I saw it at "over 250,000 downloads". Well, why didn't they charge $1.00 or $0.50 for it (do the math, I'll take $125,000!!). Any possibility it's forwarding people's text messages? Just sayn'
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Click to collapse
Not everyone is in it for the money. Some people just maybe write something that is missing on the market but don't want to make money from it. It might be just their hobby. Not everyone needs to be capitalistic, trying to turn everything into revenue.
The Android market is a lot about freedom, and there is high competition between free and paid apps. If your sole intent is to make money on apps, you will probably better off trying to target iOS. The most recent news I have is that an average iOS user will spend 7 times as much money on apps than an Android user. I think this fact kind of speaks for itself.
However if you still want to stick by, here are a couple of things I would suggest:
Offer a (free) lite version of your application as this will give users the ability to see whether your app means business or not, and if they'll like it they might go further to go for the paid version.
Android market uses keyword searching (there's probably a better term), so make sure your description hits as many possible words that may be applicable to your product while not being too heavy to read.
Advertising... don't ask me where as I wouldn't be able to help much with that. But if you're in it to make money, you probably have a business model so you should have some capital too that you can put into advertising.
That's about all I guess.

@Rootstonian
I have apps on the market, and in the last 3 months have made over $1k off ads in my free version, while only making about $250 off of the full paid version.

Very good responses there This forum does have some very intelligent people on it!
I'm anti-adware unfortunately. If that hurts my sales, then so be it; I can live with that. I won't allow ads in my apps.
As far as free versions, I would have to write "crippled" versions of the programs to limit full functionality. Well, not going to do that either. And to be honest, who can't afford $1.00?
Actually, the 15 minute return policy has hurt me I think. Some apps just can't be reviewed in 15 minutes, to wit, my current (almost done) Spam Text Blocker. There is no way someone can evaluate that in 15 minutes, so I have to code some type of limit on how many rows can go into the spam database.
Anyways, I'm way off topic (as usual) and being negative which is usually something I don't do. And I must remember, my stuff has only been out ONE month.
I do use a Macbook Pro, and I have downloaded the iPhone SDK; maybe I should take a break from Android OS and port a couple of apps to iOS and see what they do.
P.S. A smart man doesn't limit his options. How does the apps with ads stuff work?

Just apply to admob, its easy. They give nicely detailed usage statistics too

hi all,
Thanks for the feedback.
On "tell a friend about this app" feature:
Your second option sounds perfectly fine. See later on for further points on what might help.
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I'll just stick with that, then. Any idea what's best to link to? A blog? Android market?
I'm still looking for an app that does it in a nice way, as a case study.
I'm a new developer, old-time programmer. Put 2 apps out December 21, 2009 and I'm approaching a whopping 30 sales; be happy you have 1,000+ (or more)
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Click to collapse
I feel you. Unfortunately, this is all about execution and idea potential. As coders, we are often thinking about code quality, this is only the 1st step.
On ads: at the end of the day, it might be a hobby to design apps, but fun decreases when it comes down to fixing bugs for the sake of it. Ihmo, a slight revenue is good, as it encourages devs to keep up enhancing their apps.
I'm anti-adware unfortunately. ... And to be honest, who can't afford $1.00?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm not a big fan of ads neither. It's all about culture. On Android, people are reticent to pay.

Good points and well said Adn
I actually got into this starting with Google Market apps, but my true goal is to get into corporate mobile development. I feel this is a technology barely in it's infancy. Just as almost all business' needed a web page, I think the same will hold true for a mobile app.
I just put in my resume to a company looking for an iPhone developer (1 year contract), but they also wanted to talk to Android developers too (wish me luck LOL).
Now, I'm on the fence as to what platform to go with. I think with the iPhone AND iPad, that iOS is the way to go with regards to corporate coding; so I'm going to head in that direction for now.

[Q] Paid vs Ads

In your opinion what has been better charging for apps or giving them for free with ad support? Also what kind of apps tend to do better with paid/ad based revenue?

Saw a few articles about that in the last few weeks. They talked about applications that have a free ad supported version and a paid ad free. The free version generates the most revenue. Paying seems a big threshold for some and is even impossible in a lot of countries.
Most banners are not intrusive in portrait mode but I do think they are mostly too large in landscape mode.

I do non-ad apps. The two that I have published are $1.00. Who can't afford a buck, really?
Perhaps having to sign-up for Google Checkout stops people from leaning towards the non-free apps.

Rootstonian said:
I do non-ad apps. The two that I have published are $1.00. Who can't afford a buck, really?
Perhaps having to sign-up for Google Checkout stops people from leaning towards the non-free apps.
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Click to collapse
You would be surprised, ppl get defined all the time when trying to buy my app and its only 1.5 lol. Tho I guess there could be more reason why they are declined lol.
Sent from my Nexus One

If youre making a game... id say free version will make more money.
If its a utility... a paid version will make more money because the user wont have the app open for very long or use it very often

Lakers16 said:
If youre making a game... id say free version will make more money.
If its a utility... a paid version will make more money because the user wont have the app open for very long or use it very often
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to google docs, the onBackPressed() simple calls finish(). So it would be the same.
Honestly this isnt making any sense, calling onBackPressed() *should* be teh same as pressing the back button, but its not...

Lakers16 said:
If youre making a game... id say free version will make more money.
If its a utility... a paid version will make more money because the user wont have the app open for very long or use it very often
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But if a user does not use it very often it is better to have an ad supported version as the user will not like to pay for it.

As a user, having to sign up for Google checkout did stop me from buying, but I got on it cause I figured out the can bill through my carrier.
But honestly, the thing that really keeps me from buying more apps - and specially games with downloadable content - is the 15 minute refund window.
Most of the times that is not enough for me to figure out if the app or game have this or that bug that could potentially turn me off.
Examples: I bought tapatalk, only to find out it FC on me frequently, at which point I am better off using g the free XDA app.
I also bought PSX4DROID only to find out later that it FC on my device when I change orientation - found out dropping the phone and loosing progress -
Lately I am opting for apps that have a free version or a fully functioning trial.
If I'm going to drop some cash then I want to make sure I'm getting something fully functional which will be supported by the dev.
Sent from my HTC Glacier using XDA App

I prefer ad supported apps over paid apps.
Two Reasons,
1) Ad Supported apps are free.
2) I'm only 13 (well almost 14 ) so I can't really pay for apps.

Not to mention a lot of people are broke.

It's all basic Economics (yes, I actually liked economics classes in college).
2 things: Supply and Demand and Economies of Scale
Which boils down to quality vs. quantity. Do you create and make that "KILLER APP" that sells 100,000 copies at a measly $1.00 each? Yeah, I would be happy.
Or do you create 100 "NICE TO HAVE APPS" and sell 1000 copies each at same price?
Still would be happy
I really still think the mobile app market (Android, Windows Mobile, iOS) are still in an infancy stage. Especially when it comes to corporate implementations; whether end-user or in-house.

Syn Ack said:
Not to mention a lot of people are broke.
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Broke? Explain to me how someone who has sh at least $50 phone eith the majority bring well over this can not afford $1-3 apps?
Do ad supported apps do better then paid? Generally yes, but its no2 bc ppl can't afford it. Fickle had create an environment where any person with a key board csen go out and make an app. Bc of this this the majority are free and crap.
Look at the iphone quality of apps, out far exceeds that of android by far. This had nothing to do eith number of users, but rather bc paid aps actually still on the iphone. Look at the best paid aps on android...less thrn 10k sales that's crap. A company can not operate on that number of sales.
Its all about mentality of the user and supply n demand...
Sent from my Nexus One

I prefer ad supported apps. That way, I can get the app for free, with no hassle on my end, but the dev is still making money. And when it's an app that I really like, I tend to just click the ads a bunch of times.