Database Users

High speed on cingular with X1i

Hi Everyone,
I got my X1i on Tuesday. It's obviously a UK import, but so was my TyTN II and it worked great. When I got everything set up, I couldn't get more than 200kbps on dslreports. I put the sim card back in my TyTN II and retested, and got 1.2Mbps.
If I turn off HSDPA/HSUPA the data rate drops to 30kbps. I've played with every combination of data and voice bands and can't get the same performance as the TyTN. I do notice that my X1 never shows the H icon in the status bar like my other phone to indicate high speed (HSDPA).
The bands are exactly the same with a minor addition.
GSM: 900+1800 UMTS: 2100 + 800
GSM: 1900 + 850 UMTS: 1900 + 850
UMTS: 2100 + 800
AT&T seems to run on the middle one.
Does anyone have any thoughts on what could be holding my back? Same SIM, same data plan, etc.
Thanks very much in advance!!!

Hi,
Where do you live? Could be you only have UMTS 850 coverage... But, could also be something else..

dbond45 said:
Hi,
Where do you live? Could be you only have UMTS 850 coverage... But, could also be something else..
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Click to collapse
I live near Reno, NV. The wierd thing is I literally power down, move the sim to my TyTN II and bingo! I get incredible speeds. Short of getting into the registry I have gone through and confirmed all the GPRS and HSDPA settings are exactly the same.

I think what dbond45 was saying is that you might be in an area that uses 850 band which isn't actually on the x1i. The tytn II on the other hand has the 850 band from what i understand so that might be why ur getting great speeds with ur tytn II.

Bxsteez said:
I think what dbond45 was saying is that you might be in an area that uses 850 band which isn't actually on the x1i. The tytn II on the other hand has the 850 band from what i understand so that might be why ur getting great speeds with ur tytn II.
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Click to collapse
Ah, so you're thinking that even though it says it supports 1900+850 in the control panel, the 850 band may be disabled in the radio? I'm pretty technical, but would have no idea how to test that. Any ideas?
By the way, thanks for talking this through with me. I hope it's benefitting others too.

Yes from what i've read all over the place that the 850 radio is disabled. I know that even though the software says u can enable those bands it doesn't actually mean u can. I have the touch pro and it has all of the different bands in the settings and we all know no one can get 3G in the US. So it looks like that is what ur running into. I've read on howard forums at some point a way to test to see if u are working on the 850 band but i don't remember how they did it.

Bxsteez,
The program is fieldtest.exe, and you can find it under windows in your file explorer on the X1, once in WIndows, scroll down to fieldtest.exe and run, although I'm not sure what all the values me..
There is a dispute as to whether the X1i has UMTS 850 (see pocketnow.com post, but, IMHO, I don't think it does, although I wished it did)
Lemme do some research and see if I can find what band Reno is running on. It's very likely it's 850 3G since a) it's a newer market, and b) it's a rural area compared to large cities which use 1900 mhz UMTS...

From what i was reading on howard forums Canada only uses UMTS 850 and the people who have the x1i are reporting only edge speeds.

Indeed you all were right about the discussions on Howard Forums. Read through a lot of them. Thanks for the pointer to fieldtest.exe. I'm digging through it now. I'm hopeful that S/E just threw a software switch in their stack for 850Mhz so the X1i wouldn't carp any of Cingular's sales on the upcoming X1a. Hopeful and maybe a little naive.

X1 on AT&T
I had a similar instance yesterday, sent the X1 back. The same 3 choices for UMTS in WM Phone settings, I selected the 850/1900 bands. I got the H but it was slow. Moved my SIM back to the BlackJack II and worked just fine.
I think the ROM or WM6.1 Stamp they are using is incorrect.
The Xperia Box, on the white label shows UMTS EU1 US3 EU4 I believe which to me would mean 900/1900/2100 I am not positive about the last EU being 3 or 4 since I have mailed the phone already. There are a lot of listings on ebay which show UMTS 850/1900/2100 which I truly believe is incorrect and are being used from a Feb 08 page on gsm arena. Expansys USA told me they had both flavors, then the next day all you see on the US site is the 900/1900/2100.
The US ver is not released ( X1a) from what I read here and everywhere else.

dbond45 said:
Bxsteez,
There is a dispute as to whether the X1i has UMTS 850 (see pocketnow.com post, but, IMHO, I don't think it does, although I wished it did)
Lemme do some research and see if I can find what band Reno is running on. It's very likely it's 850 3G since a) it's a newer market, and b) it's a rural area compared to large cities which use 1900 mhz UMTS...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. There is no dispute. Only dumb people. the X1i DOES NOT have 850mhz UMTS band, the hardware isn't even in the phone. It falsely displayed 850+1900MHZ because it does 1900MHZ and WM assumes that if it has 1900 it must have 850. It doesn't..
2. Reno does in fact run a predominately 850mhz 3G networking using At&t (not cingular, its been over a year since they got bought out) Your speed is likely because of this. Oddly if your phone is set to auto negotiate networks it should pick up EDGE service and show a "G" does it display a G rather than an H? You said the H doesn't display when you force 850+1900 UMTS right? The question is what does come up? Signal strength etc.?
If you import a phone from the UK you need to be prepared to be disappointed with speeds, simple fact, most UK phones don't even support 1900mhz, its there for roaming purposes on the X1. Same reason the X1a will have 850/1900/2100 UMTS. 1900mhz band is the weaker of the 2 used by At&t... 1900mhz was the first frequency they used, they used it so save costs and setup a marginally OK 3G network on a larger area. 1900mhz being a higher frequency means it can travel further than 850, this results in slower speeds and poor reception depending on your location from the nearest tower. 850 is lower frequency and there for more dense, this translates into faster speeds and better reception. Most new areas of at&ts 3G network are spread around with 850mhz. Older markets are a combination of 850mhz/1900mhz and some just 1900mhz.
The point is, if you are blissfully unaware of all this then your best bet is to send the phone back and wait for the US release.

mlinz said:
...
1900mhz band is the weaker of the 2 used by At&t... 1900mhz was the first frequency they used, they used it so save costs and setup a marginally OK 3G network on a larger area. 1900mhz being a higher frequency means it can travel further than 850, this results in slower speeds and poor reception depending on your location from the nearest tower. 850 is lower frequency and there for more dense, this translates into faster speeds and better reception. Most new areas of at&ts 3G network are spread around with 850mhz. Older markets are a combination of 850mhz/1900mhz and some just 1900mhz.
...
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Click to collapse
FYI: The data transmission speed doesn't depend on frequency. Both 850 and 1900 bands are capable to provide the same speed.

mlinz said:
1. There is no dispute. Only dumb people. the X1i DOES NOT have 850mhz UMTS band, the hardware isn't even in the phone. It falsely displayed 850+1900MHZ because it does 1900MHZ and WM assumes that if it has 1900 it must have 850. It doesn't..QUOTE]
Actually, I along with many others are fully aware the X1i does not have 850 UMTS listed on the box, in the specs, etc. I even made a post about it. HOWEVER, there is a VERY SLIGHT chance it does, and SE never mentioned it in the specs for some unknown reason. If you go to pocketnow.com, Brandon CONFIRMS he spoke to 3 SE reps from the X1 support line who said the X1i had 850 UMTS support. Only 1 said it only had 900/1900/2100 UMTS as listed on the box. 3/4 reps saying it has 850 UMTS, along with the fact he supposedly only gets 850 UMTS where he lives, and is getting HSDPA on the X1i leaves a glimmer of hope for everyone out there, even if it is dismally small.
As far as the "false display" 850/1900 mhz option it is not so much a false display as a software option on most HTC phones, including the euro touch pro...
Anyways, I'm getting decent HSDPA coverage in Chicago...
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Click to collapse

joedoe said:
FYI: The data transmission speed doesn't depend on frequency. Both 850 and 1900 bands are capable to provide the same speed.
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They may output the same speed initially, but 1900 you usually get less bars depending on your location to the tower and less bars means slower speeds.

mlinz said:
...
1900mhz being a higher frequency means it can travel further than 850
...
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Click to collapse
You got this backwards. Think AM and FM. AM can be picked up much farther away.

veloaudio said:
You got this backwards. Think AM and FM. AM can be picked up much farther away.
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My bad, I do that a lot

January 22nd North American 850MHz HSPA 3G Blackstone...

Saw this news story, does anyone know if it is credible? The NextG Service is on the 850MHz band which is the same as Rogers/Fido in Canada and Cingular in the US...if all this is true then one of these unlocked would be 3G Compatible in North America...Thoughts?
http://apcmag.com/iphonelike_htc_touch_hd_set_for_aussie_launch.htm
http://www.expansys.com.au/d.aspx?i=173812

Well that would suck for me because about 3 hours ago I got an iPhone because I really needed 3g already I do ally of browsing and videos but I like the touch he better....

What is the exact issue with North America and the Touch HD? I thought HSDPA was fully supported in our continent under most major providers. Just curious as I'm looking at purchasing one in the future.

Lokosis said:
What is the exact issue with North America and the Touch HD? I thought HSDPA was fully supported in our continent under most major providers. Just curious as I'm looking at purchasing one in the future.
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The Touch HD that is out now operates on UMTS 900/2100. Telstra in Australia and the North American providers (except T-Mobile) use UMTS 850.

hopefully it is just some software that HTC did. cuz we do have that option to change it to 850MHz 3G in the phone but just nothing happens to it. If a flash can fix it then it should be ok. EDGE for me is pretty fast anyways in Toronto most of the time.

b-e-a-s-t said:
Saw this news story, does anyone know if it is credible? The NextG Service is on the 850MHz band which is the same as Rogers/Fido in Canada and Cingular in the US...if all this is true then one of these unlocked would be 3G Compatible in North America...Thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
850 mHz is just one of the 2 bands needed to work on US 3G. you also need 1900 . my understanding is one band is for upload the other for download. don't get me wrong, it would be fantastic if the Aussie version was fully capable on US networks. i'll believe it when i see it. heck, expansys even has a note saying they have to confirm the 850mHz 3G band.

850/1900Mhz....
could someone please explain the upload/download at different frequencies paradigm to me?

cortez.i said:
850 mHz is just one of the 2 bands needed to work on US 3G. you also need 1900 . my understanding is one band is for upload the other for download. don't get me wrong, it would be fantastic if the Aussie version was fully capable on US networks. i'll believe it when i see it. heck, expansys even has a note saying they have to confirm the 850mHz 3G band.
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Click to collapse
This is incorrect. With at&t you do not need both. With just 850mHz you will be more than fine.
Now with T-Mobile you would need both 1700 and 2100 not just 2100 or just 1700 both. Just more reason to hate T-Mobile.

I am ready to take the plunge and drop the $ for an HD. I also will switch my number back to at&t from verizon. I guessi cna say almost ready. I really dont want to spend $800 for no 3G

Does anyone know how hspa in Canada with Rogers/Fido works? i.e. are dual frequencies required or is 850MHz enough to get top speeds? Thanks...

Has anyone brought one into the US and had any success getting a 3G signal ?

Some carriers in the US and Canada use 850mhz such as AT&T and Rogers but they also use 1900mhz. It really depends where you live... Whiich city, state etc
1900mhz is growing in popularity in the states.

tbfl said:
Has anyone brought one into the US and had any success getting a 3G signal ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Doesnt work

b-e-a-s-t said:
could someone please explain the upload/download at different frequencies paradigm to me?
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Click to collapse
I can't remember which but one is used for uploading and one is used for downloading.
cortez.i said:
850 mHz is just one of the 2 bands needed to work on US 3G. you also need 1900 . my understanding is one band is for upload the other for download. don't get me wrong, it would be fantastic if the Aussie version was fully capable on US networks. i'll believe it when i see it. heck, expansys even has a note saying they have to confirm the 850mHz 3G band.
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Click to collapse
You are exactly right. YOu need both 1900 and 850mhz
tbfl said:
Has anyone brought one into the US and had any success getting a 3G signal ?
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Click to collapse
Sadly, no 3G for me.

You do not need both 1900 and 850. Its only tmobile that u need both frequenes but they use 1700 and 2100. As long as u have ether 850 or 1900 (depending on what freuency ur area uses) u will have 3g with at&t.

cortez.i said:
850 mHz is just one of the 2 bands needed to work on US 3G. you also need 1900 . my understanding is one band is for upload the other for download. don't get me wrong, it would be fantastic if the Aussie version was fully capable on US networks. i'll believe it when i see it. heck, expansys even has a note saying they have to confirm the 850mHz 3G band.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, the *network* you use may be present on more than one frequency, but its not 850 being uplink and 1700 being the downlink.
When we talk about UMTS the downlink is around 850/1700/2100 but the uplink is always a few MHz below that. (to be pedantic, the UMTS specification specifies the exact downlink/uplink separation)
I can't imagine HTC producing a UMTS 850 phone that won't work on ATT/Rogers and Telstra . Telstra only needs the 850 band so HTC can add in whatever extra the US providers use. It will probably be the same bands supported by the HTC Hermes and other phones common to these providers.

for AT&T, you do NOT need both frequencies (850 and 1900) for 3G. They don't HAVE both frequencies in most areas. It's one or the other.
And yes, T-Mobile US sucks ass...
-Mc

Tremere said:
No, the *network* you use may be present on more than one frequency, but its not 850 being uplink and 1700 being the downlink.
When we talk about UMTS the downlink is around 850/1700/2100 but the uplink is always a few MHz below that. (to be pedantic, the UMTS specification specifies the exact downlink/uplink separation)
I can't imagine HTC producing a UMTS 850 phone that won't work on ATT/Rogers and Telstra . Telstra only needs the 850 band so HTC can add in whatever extra the US providers use. It will probably be the same bands supported by the HTC Hermes and other phones common to these providers.
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McHale said:
for AT&T, you do NOT need both frequencies (850 and 1900) for 3G. They don't HAVE both frequencies in most areas. It's one or the other.
And yes, T-Mobile US sucks ass...
-Mc
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Click to collapse
Well I stand corrected then. This is good news then. Just need somebody in the US to buy a Telstra HD and see if it works. I guess it will be dependent on the area though. If you don't have 850mhz.

Lol i guess it took a senor member to say it for anyone to believe it. I only said it in the first page lol. Lets see what happens when the aus model comes out.

So it is decided then IF the Blackstone is introduced by Telstra and working on their 850MHz 3.5G Network THEN it has the opportunity to work in both the US on Att and Canada's Rogers/Fido...I will wait for this device, purchase it and let the board know if someone else doesn't beat me to it!
P.S. does someone think that this release may be with the Android OS for Telstra? It was the Telstra reps that were commenting at CES 2009 regarding Palm Pre and how the next Android phone that they were testing kicks it...who knows probably coincidence...

[Q] question for 3G frequencies in Canada

I have a tmobile vibrant phone (hardware only). According to the phone specs i SHOULD be able to get 3g signal with my fido sim card since the phone seems to support all the same frequencies as the Canadian i9000.... but i only get edge.
If you guys are getting 3G with fido or rogers sim cards, did you have to set anything special in the phone settings?
Thanks!

Vibrant T-mobile 3G runs on 1700
that is why you only get EDGE (2G)
Fido, Rogers & Bell runs on 850 & 1900 for 3G

On my way to work today this is what i saw in the network box.
inside my house - EDGE
Outside my house - 3G
back country roads to work - i saw just G or no signal (normal i loose signal with my iphone and blackberry on there)
at work - back on edge
So i DO get 3g somehow! or is it just teasing me by showing 3G?

i read somewhere that the t-mo vibrant does have 1900 as one of its 3g bands, so this is why your phone has been able to pick up 3g at times. the problem for you is that rogers/fido mainly use the 850 band. i had the nokia n97 mini that had the 1900 but no 850 and while driving around most of the gta i would get 3g, but when i went into buildings, houses, etc, it would drop to edge.

Maybe your phone supports 1900 and not 850 MHz? Or the oposite? That would explain why you would get bad UMTS coverage.
@hondaguy you were faster than me

boravr6 said:
I have a tmobile vibrant phone (hardware only). According to the phone specs i SHOULD be able to get 3g signal with my fido sim card since the phone seems to support all the same frequencies as the Canadian i9000.... but i only get edge.
If you guys are getting 3G with fido or rogers sim cards, did you have to set anything special in the phone settings?
Thanks!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To my knowledge the T-Mobile Vibrant does not support the major Canadian 3g bands. It is quad band 2g, which is why you are able to get edge but it is only 2 band 3g, at least according to this spec sheet:
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=2439&c=samsung_sgh-t959_galaxy_s_vibrant
T-mobile uses the 1700 and 2100 UMTS bands for 3g, Bell/Rogers/Telus/Virgin/Fido use 850/1900 UMTS bands for 3g. Therefore the 3g radio on the Vibrant is not compatible with these networks.
However, WIND mobile uses the 1700/2100 UMTS bands for 3g and you can use unlocked T-Mobile phones to their full ability on Wind's network. Wind is only in major urban centres though so this may not help you if you're not in the city. Hopefully you are as Wind has a pretty sweet unlimited data plan!
http://shop.windmobile.ca/
On the other hand according this this article from Engadget:
http://www.engadget.com/2010/08/22/confirmed-galaxy-s-unlock-codes-are-stored-in-your-phone-vibra/
If they're right that the Vibrant is somehow capable of AT&T 3g, it would mean the phone has to be tri-band UMTS: 850, 1700, 2100 (or 1700,1900,2100) as AT&T uses the 850/1900 bands like Rogers/Bell/Telus.
This doesn't make sense to me why T-Mobile would do this. The 850/1900 bands are really only used in North America on competing carriers, so it doesn't give the phone "world" capabilities, the 2100 band does that. Why they would add a feature who's only purpose is to make the phone work on competitors' networks is a mystery to me but Engadget seems to have a picture that confirms it. If this is true than an unlocked Vibrant should technically be able to work on Rogers/Bell/Telus/Fido/Virgin 3g, but only if it is unlocked. I'm pretty sure that T-Mobile sells their phones SIM locked to their network, have you unlocked yours?
~Edit if it does have 1900 as the third band the above posters are correct in that you will get minimal 3g coverage as 850 is the primary in Canada.

yeah i wanted to switch to Wind Mobile for the $35 true unlimited data plan, until i found out they don't work with normal 850/1900/2100 phones
only 1700 / 2100

[Q] Will Euro Tab work on US 3G?

I haven't seen any specs for North American Galaxy Tab so I don't know if the AT&T version will have UMTS 850. I have ordered a Euro version that has UMTS 1900 so I presume it "should" work on AT&T 3G but I'm worried because what I can find on this subject implies UMTS 850 is essential for AT&T 3G. Can anyone with experience in US tell me how well the UMTS 1900 only works? Thanks.

Yes
To be more specific, it will if your city still has the 1900 mhz band. Check here: http://www.cellularmaps.com/att_850_1900.shtml

Funk2641 said:
Yes
To be more specific, it will if your city still has the 1900 mhz band. Check here: http://www.cellularmaps.com/att_850_1900.shtml
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the quick response and the maps (first time I've seen coverage maps by frequency, since AT&T no longer offers them) Very helpful and I feel better about haven ordered the Euro version.

Are there any owners of cellphones using the Euro 900/1900 UMTS frequencies on US 3G networks who can share their experience?

I live in the SF Bay Area and here the network is mainly 1900Mhz so the device works very well.
If you live in a market that got 3g fairly early, your network in probably 1900Mhz.
If you live in a market that only recently (1-2 years) got 3G, you might be on a 850Mhz network.

US T-Mobile's 3G freq vs the rest of the world?

Anyone getting the T-Mobile version tomorrow? With CDMA not SIM capable, and AT&T version still up in the air, I think I'm probably going to get one tomorrow!
I've got question regarding T-Mobile's werid 3G band tho. I think Samsung listed T-Mobile's version as AWS 1700/2100. I know 1700 is weird, but is that AWS 2100 same as the 2100 band that the rest of the world use? Sorry it's my first 3G T-mobile device, and looking on wiki or google is just kinda vague

2100MHz is the band used all across Europe as well as large parts of Asia.
So, yes, the T-Mobile one should give you 3G capability in other parts of the world, though if it's locked that may open up other issues.

Step666 said:
2100MHz is the band used all across Europe as well as large parts of Asia.
So, yes, the T-Mobile one should give you 3G capability in other parts of the world, though if it's locked that may open up other issues.
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Click to collapse
I had a TMo US G1, and it worked fine on 3G when I returned to the UK. The converse was not true of my TMo UK G2 (HTC Hero), which would only get Edge in the US because it did not support both bands of AWS (1700/2100).
So, I see no reason why a TMo US shouldn't work pretty much everywhere else in the world where 2100 3G is ubiquitous.
Regards,
Dave

Cool thanks, i guess that AWS threw me off. I thought there were a regular 2100, and then T-Mobile's AWS 2100

Step666 said:
2100MHz is the band used all across Europe as well as large parts of Asia.
So, yes, the T-Mobile one should give you 3G capability in other parts of the world, though if it's locked that may open up other issues.
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Click to collapse
Actually you're a bit off. Tmo's 3G runs on AWS 1700/2100 band which is not the same 2100 *frequency* as the rest of the world. Tmo uses 1700 for downloads and 2100 for uploads, so both bands (aws/band IV) are needed.
Now Europe (and rest of GSM world) use straight 2100 band for 3G but the exact frequency is not the same as Tmo's.
Basically a Tmo Galaxy Tab will only get you EDGE outside of the US. An ATT Galaxy Tab will get you 3G in the US and the rest of the world (as long as it's sim unlocked, ofcourse).

LordLugard said:
Basically a Tmo Galaxy Tab will only get you EDGE outside of the US. An ATT Galaxy Tab will get you 3G in the US and the rest of the world (as long as it's sim unlocked, ofcourse).
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No, the T-mobile phones give you also 3G in Europe. All AWS chipsets do both Band I (2100) and Band IV (AWS 1700/2100).

I thought the galaxy tab is quad band, so you can simply swap your sim card with another european carrier and it should work on thier frequency
Am I wrong?

ahbvrh said:
I thought the galaxy tab is quad band, so you can simply swap your sim card with another european carrier and it should work on thier frequency
Am I wrong?
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Click to collapse
You're right for 2G, not for 3G

So getting the unlock code for tmobile device and putting AT&T sim card will not give me 3g connectivity (using AT&T network)?

ahbvrh said:
So getting the unlock code for tmobile device and putting AT&T sim card will not give me 3g connectivity (using AT&T network)?
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Click to collapse
No, because it doesn't support the 850 or 1900 MHz bands.

Volker1 said:
No, the T-mobile phones give you also 3G in Europe. All AWS chipsets do both Band I (2100) and Band IV (AWS 1700/2100).
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Click to collapse
It will not. Pls do some more reading on the subject. There's a very good writeup on it in these forum. Someone explained it better than I've probably done. If I find it I'll link to it.

LordLugard said:
It will not. Pls do some more reading on the subject.
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Click to collapse
One could say the same to you.
This is a link to T-Mobile US's support forum, in which someone has had it confirmed from T-Mobile themselves that all devices designed for their network have to be fully compatible with the 2100MHz band, meaning they will give you 3G capabilities in Europe.
Your previous post in which you claim that the 2100MHz band that T-Mobile use is not the same as the 2100MHz band the rest of the world uses is nothing short of ridiculous.
If the band T-Mobile used was different to the one used in the rest of the world, it would not be described as 2100MHz.

LordLugard said:
It will not. Pls do some more reading on the subject. There's a very good writeup on it in these forum. Someone explained it better than I've probably done. If I find it I'll link to it.
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Click to collapse
Sorry, but as I already said earlier in this thread, my T-Mobile US G1, which is an AWS device, worked perfectly well in the UK with full 3G. Similarly, I know of people who bought TMo Nexus Ones in the US, and these all worked fine in the UK.
That's not to say there isn't some subtle difference which not all chipsets can cater for, but it is certainly true that many TMo US handsets will give 3G capabilities in Europe.
Regards,
Dave

The normal UMTS 2100 is called "Band I" and t-mobile's AWS is called "Band IV":
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands
The AWS 3G module has already 2100MHz support, so there is no additional hardware necessary to support Band I as well. Theoretically it could be disabled, of course, but then T-mobile wouldn't be able to charge you an arm and a leg if you were to roam outside of the US