Related
Hi,
I noticed that OS constantly unloads my applications.
Say, I visit some page using IE, then switch to another application, then switch back - it is usually at the same page, but, probably depending on idle time, it sporadically gets closed.
That said, when I go to IE again, it starts afresh on its initial page and I must reload my page again. Needless to say, in most cases this is unacceptable. (extra traffic, so it costs $$, also GPRS could become unavailable etc :x )
How do I PREVENT this behaviour?
Not only IE suffers, any application! Sporadically exits despite of fact there are tons of free memory and I would better free resources with another way than just closing what is required for me.
I have elder device with PocketPC 3.0 (Cassiopeia E-125) and it does NOT behave in such a way. Does not close even it has 4times less memory! Now I understand how nice it is.
While this problem persists, I forced to have both devices with me.
Please help me solving this!
Vadim.
I've noticed the same behavior randomly also. I don't have a fix, but you're not alone.
What ROM version are you using? There was an issue with the earlier ROMS in that there were too many programs running and when you launched another program the OS would terminate a background program to provide the necesssary process space.
The newer ROMs have solved this problem, but CheckNotify and ClearNotify (search the forum) will help with the earlier ROMs.
This is an old problem, related to the number of running processes.
Consult this thread
http://www.ppcw.net/?itemid=1645
which will show you how to solve it. Also the newer roms cut down on the number of processes at startup, which helps.
Surur
Mine is much more random than that described. Sometimes I can have a half dozen apps open with no problem, and sometimes a single app will close itself while I work in the phone or the Today screen.
Carlos said:
Mine is much more random than that described. Sometimes I can have a half dozen apps open with no problem, and sometimes a single app will close itself while I work in the phone or the Today screen.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Don't forget that we are talking processes, not appications, here. One app. may have many processes and multiple app's may use the same common processes. Therefore, launching one application can generate a number of new processes and that can push you over the limit (e.g. ActiveSync, which launches three or four I recall), so something gets nuked.
I understand, and was looking for a pattern, but there is none. In fact, it seems reversed, as it happens more often while I'm just out and about and less frequenty while the device is in the cradle. Very often it happens after a fresh boot with a single app running.
I may look at it more closely with a process viewer. It's not bugging me enough to make it a priority.
Thank you all for providing many help!
surur said:
This is an old problem, related to the number of running processes.
Consult this thread
http://www.ppcw.net/?itemid=1645
which will show you how to solve it. Also the newer roms cut down on the number of processes at startup, which helps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That explains it all, many fruitful comments, and a prove that there could be no fix but just temporary solutions to reduce a problem a bit.
It is a bit larger problem in my case, because I use special sotware to support Russian.
Too bad MS can't recognize and fix such a big design mistakes.
Since no one replied to this message in the official CM 5.0 thread. I have decided to create a new thread and hope to find a solution to this problem.
My alarm clock would stop working randomly ever since I flashed to CM 5.0, from Beta 4 to 5..2, the problem persists. If i set an alarm that is about one hour from now, it would go off. But the real alarm I need which is supposed to go off at 8 am in the morning never goes off. Anyone had similar problems? I read Cyanogen's warning about the alarm clock problem. But seems he's just trying to remind you to reset your alarm after flashing to CM. Unluckily, I've reset my alarm numerous times and it never goes off in the morning.
Anyone can give me a hand? Thanks in advance! Overall, CM is a great ROM which gives me the option to use open vpn, which is vital for me since I'm living in China behind the GFW.
Are you by chance using any taskillers?
I do use a task-killer program. But I always keep the clock app on while i'm sleeping to try to make sure the alarm goes off on time. But it never does in the morning.
Don't use task killers on the N1, there really is no need.
cyanogen said:
Don't use task killers on the N1, there really is no need.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wouldn't say that's accurate... The phone does slow down noticeably when you have 20-30+ things open
Sometimes a lot of them are running as well (using TasKiller, a lot of Yellow, including Camera, Gmail etc even when not in use and no emails being downloaded). This probably affects battery life as well.
Paul22000 said:
I wouldn't say that's accurate... The phone does slow down noticeably when you have 20-30+ things open
Sometimes a lot of them are running as well (using TasKiller, a lot of Yellow, including Camera, Gmail etc even when not in use and no emails being downloaded). This probably affects battery life as well.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Do you have any evidence to back this up? Yes this was a problem on older devices because many things would be fighting over the tiny amount of RAM.
You'll see lots of processes running but that's just the way Android works. Since it doesn't really benefit from simple caching like a normal linux system would, it just keeps everything running and kills unused stuff when memory is low. Most of the things you see running are either paused and using no CPU, or are services that would be periodically launched anyway.
http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/fundamentals.html#lcycles
Keeping these processes alive should actually be saving you battery rather than using it. It's more expensive to launch and restore the state of an application or service after being killed than it is to simply resume one that's been paused.
cyanogen said:
Do you have any evidence to back this up? Yes this was a problem on older devices because many things would be fighting over the tiny amount of RAM.
You'll see lots of processes running but that's just the way Android works. Since it doesn't really benefit from simple caching like a normal linux system would, it just keeps everything running and kills unused stuff when memory is low. Most of the things you see running are either paused and using no CPU, or are services that would be periodically launched anyway.
http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/fundamentals.html#lcycles
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes. The phone gets slow when TasKiller shows 30 things in it. I click close all, and it's faster. Do you know my personal experiences more than I do?
Paul22000 said:
Yes. The phone gets slow when TasKiller shows 30 things in it. I click close all, and it's faster. Do you know my personal experiences more than I do?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think there is likely one or two specific misbehaving applications that are giving you trouble, rather than the way the system works as a whole, thats all.
I think what Cyanogen is saying is that android does not handle running processes the way other os's do They have a lifecycle that is non-obvious to someone just looking at a process list. If you insist on killing tasks outside of the activity/service lifecycle they you _will_ get service failures (like the alarm clock) its up to you what you value more.
I have not installed any sort of task manager (outside what's in astro but I don't use it) and never see any noticeable slow down.
Anyway - back on topic.
Yes I have the same issue, never had it before.
Since flashine 5.0.2 my alarm doesn't work in the morning.
The linux kernel keeps a buffer cache of recently used files in RAM. So whenever an application wants to access something on the flash, instead of going to the flash file system, it can just get it from the file buffer cache in RAM, a significant speed increase.
If the RAM is currently being taken up by unused android apps, then that leaves less room for the buffer cache, so in theory, by killing off unused android apps more quickly, that will allow the linux kernel to allocate more space for the buffer cache and thus speeding up the system.
Am I way off here?
Dave
cyanogen said:
Do you have any evidence to back this up? Yes this was a problem on older devices because many things would be fighting over the tiny amount of RAM.
You'll see lots of processes running but that's just the way Android works. Since it doesn't really benefit from simple caching like a normal linux system would, it just keeps everything running and kills unused stuff when memory is low. Most of the things you see running are either paused and using no CPU, or are services that would be periodically launched anyway.
http://developer.android.com/guide/topics/fundamentals.html#lcycles
Keeping these processes alive should actually be saving you battery rather than using it. It's more expensive to launch and restore the state of an application or service after being killed than it is to simply resume one that's been paused.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would have to agree with Cyanogen on this one. When I first got my N1, I looked towards task killers to help alleviate slowdown, but in the end, I think it's just the placebo effect in a way; you did something to try to solve the problem, and so therefore you perceive a difference.
In other words, task killers aren't needed on this beast of a phone. As for battery life (if that's an issue), look into SetCpu.
Thanks for the reply Cyanogen. I think not using task-killer, or at least not killing the clock app got my alarm working this morning. But I use task-killer not for the purpose of saving ram, but for using less data. Some programs such as facebook or a twitter client would try to connect to the internet every once in a while. I'm on a low data limit plan in China. So I don't want those programs to eat up all my data. When I'm on wifi at home, I don't worry about that. Thanks again.
Same problem. Don't use taskkillers, flashed last CM last night and didn't wake up on time this morning - alarm didn't work, thought I checked that clock icon was on place on notification bar
amwayorlando said:
But I use task-killer not for the purpose of saving ram, but for using less data. Some programs such as facebook or a twitter client would try to connect to the internet every once in a while. I'm on a low data limit plan in China. So I don't want those programs to eat up all my data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Have you thought about using something like APNDroid or Toggle Data, to just switch off the cell data when you don't want to use it?
Or, Modify the behavior of the applications you don't want using data?
I have my facebook and twitter for example set to manual update only (for battery saving purposes) because there's nothing there that is critical important info, and I don't need to be notified.
Nice thread though, I'm pretty sure I try to keep people informed that task-killers aren't needed and cause issues, everywhere where it comes up. I find humor that people will still argue, even with a developer, this fact. I've had 150+ hours uptime with no slowdown (and 30 apps running) on the stock rom (without highmem support).
bofslime said:
Or, Modify the behavior of the applications you don't want using data?
I have my facebook and twitter for example set to manual update only (for battery saving purposes) because there's nothing there that is critical important info, and I don't need to be notified.
Nice thread though, I'm pretty sure I try to keep people informed that task-killers aren't needed and cause issues, everywhere where it comes up. I find humor that people will still argue, even with a developer, this fact. I've had 150+ hours uptime with no slowdown (and 30 apps running) on the stock rom (without highmem support).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Then please inform us of a thread that can verify what you all are saying. Not in an argumentative tone, my linpack score drastically improves after 16 hours of uptime, and a task-killer.
Rom:CM 5.0.2 -OC Kernel
wesbalmer said:
Then please inform us of a thread that can verify what you all are saying. Not in an argumentative tone, my linpack score drastically improves after 16 hours of uptime, and a task-killer.
Rom:CM 5.0.2 -OC Kernel
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This has basically been discussed into the ground. In my eye's, its a fight vs what I like to call "Windows XP mentality", and that there was benefit on phones like the G1. With the copious amounts of memory on the N1 and droid, they cause way more harm, and immeasurable good (if any).
Summary thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=627836
I've linked to quotes from others.
Threads/posts of interest: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5494890#post5494890
And: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5298630#post5298630
Well, this discussion is very interesting, but lets return to our problem with non-working alarm.
I downloaded Advanced Task Killer Free, and things like Sprint Navigation, Facebook, Voice Dialer, etc, the list gets 20 programs long after about 15 minutes... this makes no sense.
Can someone who has used Android longer please explain this to me? It seems that this OS needs much more babysitting than even WM, if it's really auto-starting all this crap for no reason.
It seems like all of the applications you described are system apps that were on the phone when you got them. They may be set to automatically run. I know you wont be able to remove any of them without the phone being rooted and having su access - but i may be wrong.
When you close them, it seems like the OS is just automatically reloading them.
Careful when you kill apps, it could cause some unwanted issues.
So many of these programs have nothing to do with day-to-day operation... this is bizarre.
Does Android supposedly have built-in memory-management? IE, you exit the camera app, it eventually FORCE closes it? So far, I haven't noticed that behavior at all. That's what caused so many issues on my old WM HTC devices.
Android does have built-in memory management. It is how the OS was developed.
If you have a program running on your screen, it will use whatever amount of memory it needs in order to run it.
If the program gets pushed into the background, but is still running, it will still use the memory, even though another program is being ran using up even more memory.
Having free memory will not make the phone run any faster. Eventually the program in the background will close if not used. It will also be force closed if the system is in dire need of memory.
Android knows when it is need of memory.
There are several threads already which explain memory use if you search. Since I'm using my phone I won't go into detail but I will say that task killers are not recommended. It's much better to let Android manage the memory and processes.
My personal experience bears this out as I had a lot of strange issues like losing wireless connectivity when I was using a task killer. Now I let Android handle things and my phone runs smooth. Using a Sprint Hero with Fresh 2.1.2 ROM.
-------------------------------------
Sent via the XDA Tapatalk App
Interesting... all my friends who use Android have task managers... Most engadget posts mention that too. Hrm... I guess I'll make sure auto-kill is disabled and just watch and see how the OS holds up.
I just got the phone this morning and was killing apps left and right. I started to get a lot of Force Close errors.
I rebooted the phone which would clear the memory anyways and I'm letting the OS handle everything now - Havent had any problems since.
good luck!
ScrapMaker said:
Interesting... all my friends who use Android have task managers... Most engadget posts mention that too. Hrm... I guess I'll make sure auto-kill is disabled and just watch and see how the OS holds up.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Honestly, if you are worried about a particular program running away and have reason to believe it, sure a task manager/task killer can be handy for that one program but historically, giving people task managers on Android causes more problems than it helps. Voice Dialer is your phone app for example and at the CDMA Hero forums, we've seen the phone do some crazy things when we removed it from the phone right after we got root (turns out that thing is hooked to more than just the "making phone calls" feature).
All that said, it's quite informative to google around about android's method of memory management. It's kinda cool!
I had a hero, and it least made it through the day. The Evo is way worse. I have no idea why some things run in the background that I've never used and have no reason to be running in the background. I'm using ATK and Auto Task Manager, which kills app once your phone goes to sleep. You just have to know what apps you shouldn't be killing. As a rule of thumb, I didn't kill any native google or HTC services. I did kill all Sprint services. Following this guide as well:http://www.mobilecrunch.com/2010/06...attery-life-and-what-this-says-about-android/
here is why you don't really need a task killer.
with that, i can say that i do have one but, i don't have any autokill going. i only use it as a last resort to kill things if i have like multiple things producing sound at once.
Honestly I can tell you from experience, that sprint bloat wear will launch on its own all day long. Even if you set ATK or AMM to nuke it, it eventually will cost more batt. in the long run because of the system resources required to launch and kill over and over again. The only way to successfully deal with the issue is to rm the crap, which requires root.
I have a lot of apps opening up in the background on their own and eating up my memory. Things like qik, skype, city id, vz navigator open on their own even though I barely use them, if at all. My free memory keeps dropping down to around 30mb. Is there anything I can do?
Sent from my DROIDX using XDA App
The best remedy I came up with was rooting my phone, and then installing Titanium Backup and Autostarts. Titanium can freeze the apps you never want to use like some of the crapware that comes preinstalled. For the apps that you do use, but don't want automatically opening all the time, you can use Autostarts to choose which conditions must be met for the app to open, or not open in this case. For both of those applications, you need to be rooted, and unfortunately that's the only way I know of to stop some of the apps you mentioned (especially Skype and CityID).
You can root to remove the bloatware, but that's it. Also, memory on android isn't the same as on a PC. With a PC, clear memory means a faster system, but the opposite is true for android. Because of the way it manages applications, you want to keep the memory as full as possible.
mlclm said:
You can root to remove the bloatware, but that's it. Also, memory on android isn't the same as on a PC. With a PC, clear memory means a faster system, but the opposite is true for android. Because of the way it manages applications, you want to keep the memory as full as possible.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
dwray said:
The best remedy I came up with was rooting my phone, and then installing Titanium Backup and Autostarts. Titanium can freeze the apps you never want to use like some of the crapware that comes preinstalled. For the apps that you do use, but don't want automatically opening all the time, you can use Autostarts to choose which conditions must be met for the app to open, or not open in this case. For both of those applications, you need to be rooted, and unfortunately that's the only way I know of to stop some of the apps you mentioned (especially Skype and CityID).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the answer. There is a difference in night and day with my X since installed Autostarts and Fission.
If you install Autostarts and use Advanced Task Killer you will be able to kill the apps and they won't continue to run/open in the background. It's extremely worth it.
wad3g said:
This is the answer. There is a difference in night and day with my X since installed Autostarts and Fission.
If you install Autostarts and use Advanced Task Killer you will be able to kill the apps and they won't continue to run/open in the background. It's extremely worth it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Search android task killers on these forums. Then listen to the posts and let android do its thing.
Task killers bog down the system because these apps are shut down while attempting to do something (sync, send data, etc). The app then realizes that it needs to complete the process and restarts. This continues over and over hogging your cpu resources and slowing down the system.
Stop paying attention to the free memory and open apps. This is not an iPhone.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
AdhvanIt said:
Search android task killers on these forums. Then listen to the posts and let android do its thing.
Task killers bog down the system because these apps are shut down while attempting to do something (sync, send data, etc). The app then realizes that it needs to complete the process and restarts. This continues over and over hogging your cpu resources and slowing down the system.
Stop paying attention to the free memory and open apps. This is not an iPhone.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except you can put exceptions into what apps to kill.
EtherBoo said:
Except you can put exceptions into what apps to kill.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Read this
http://geekfor.me/faq/you-shouldnt-be-using-a-task-killer-with-android/
Sent from my DROIDX using Tapatalk
AdhvanIt said:
Search android task killers on these forums. Then listen to the posts and let android do its thing.
Task killers bog down the system because these apps are shut down while attempting to do something (sync, send data, etc). The app then realizes that it needs to complete the process and restarts. This continues over and over hogging your cpu resources and slowing down the system.
Stop paying attention to the free memory and open apps. This is not an iPhone.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're missing the point. Autostarts doesn't allow the app to start in the first place so it doesn't bog down the system or hog resources.
Correct me if I'm wrong but is it not Gingerbread that has added the addition of a task killer.
It's not about the free memory, my phone runs faster. I can tell a difference.
It's possible we may be talking about different things.
I'm pretty sure closing Angry Birds when it's still open because I Home Screen buttoned out of it won't make a big difference.
If you're referring to closing services while they're running, it's a different story. I skimmed through the article, it looks interesting, but I honestly fail to see how closing an app that's running... even one that might be doing something I don't want it to (like using GPS because it didn't close when I back-arrowed out of it).
When I bought my phone, I installed Weather Bug. Weather Bug kept trying to get my GPS location while I was at work. My phone barely made it through work. Anytime I checked the weather, I had to close the program through a task killer, or I'd have no battery because the phone was trying to use my GPS all day.
How does not closing that save my battery?
EtherBoo said:
It's possible we may be talking about different things.
I'm pretty sure closing Angry Birds when it's still open because I Home Screen buttoned out of it won't make a big difference.
If you're referring to closing services while they're running, it's a different story. I skimmed through the article, it looks interesting, but I honestly fail to see how closing an app that's running... even one that might be doing something I don't want it to (like using GPS because it didn't close when I back-arrowed out of it).
When I bought my phone, I installed Weather Bug. Weather Bug kept trying to get my GPS location while I was at work. My phone barely made it through work. Anytime I checked the weather, I had to close the program through a task killer, or I'd have no battery because the phone was trying to use my GPS all day.
How does not closing that save my battery?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's not a valid comparison. The android system manages apps, but it doesn't monitor everything that they're doing to prevent a runaway (like weatherbug). Actually read the article, then comment on it. And you do know you can turn gps off, right?
I happen to like GPS, and as long as I don't have any runaways, it doesn't drain battery since it's not used.
I'm just saying, for programs like that, Task Killers are great.
I'll read it tomorrow most likely.
I tried Watchdog and a few other task killers before finally shelling out the money for the full version of Titanium. I found that often times, the biggest cpu hog and battery killer was the task killer itself since it has to be constantly running in the background. For apps that you use on a regular basis, the best remedy for saving battery life is to just change the update interval period. By default, a lot of widgets (especially weather) update every 15 minutes, which can be a little tasking on system resources at times. I set mine to 1 hour and that helped tremendously. The main reason I went to the full version of Titanium is because it accomplishes what task killers can't by freezing apps to deny their access to open at all. Instead of removing the bloatware like CityID, VZ Navigator, and others, which will keep your phone from receiving OTA updates, just freeze them and you'll never have to worry about them. Autostarts takes care of the rest for me by allowing full control over the condition changes on the device which trigger certain applications to open. For example, I may use Google goggles occassionally, but I don't want it to automatically open in the background just because I enabled GPS. Before rooting my phone, I would normally average between 14 to 18 hours on moderate usage (with a task killer running I might add). Now, with those two applications managing things more meticulously, and chaning the update interval for all of my widgets, I get around 30 to 36 hours easily.
Ever had APP UPDATE or APP INSTALL FAILURES and common remedies (deleting cache, wiping data, uninstall/reinstall, etc) not resolving the problem? Something I learned after experiencing this issue a couple of different times- The system's clock wasn't staying in sync with the network's time. I don't know "exactly" why? All I had to do was set the systems clock to correct time and my apps started auto updating... I installed ★ClockSync★Since then the sys/netwrk clock has stayed in sync, thus I haven't had anymore app update or install failures since. I wanted to pass this information along, I figured others of you might wind up experiencing the same problem and find this info helpful in resolving the issue quicker than I was able to...