Related
Look at this (from 1:44 on):
It's a quadrant benchmark run on a android port on the HD2. Graphics are really bad, but in the end it has approximately the same score as the benchmarking score of the Galaxy with the original firmware. I mean what is in a score? If I look at the beginning of the movie, the UI is very slow and not as responsive as the Galaxy
(BTW i got 55.7 FPS with the neocore benchmark on JM2)
This is not to say that I don't have deep respect for what the HD2-android development team is doing. Really amazing job. I just can't wait to get my HD2 back from repair.
appelflap said:
Look at this (from 1:44 on):
It's a quadrant benchmark run on a android port on the HD2. Graphics are really bad, but in the end it has approximately the same score as the benchmarking score of the Galaxy with the original firmware. I mean what is in a score? If I look at the beginning of the movie, the UI is very slow and not as responsive as the Galaxy
(BTW i got 55.7 FPS with the neocore benchmark on JM2)
This is not to say that I don't have deep respect for what the HD2-android development team is doing. Really amazing job. I just can't wait to get my HD2 back from repair.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Quadrant scores have been criticized for their non-descript breakdowns, at least on their free suite. Also, the fact that they chose the weighting of the scores, so should they chose 2D is equal to 3D weight, I don't know their formula (and for all I know, they give equal weighting to all or they give equal weighting to all test where the CPU has 12 tests and the 3D graphics has 4), but the fact that we, as users don't have access to their formula on their website is a bit unnerving.
Add to that the fact that many reviews and videos rely on it so heavily leaves users a bit misinformed. In reality, and thorough review should definitely run a custom test suite to give individual scores to:
CPU
Memory
I/O
2D graphics
3D graphics
That way users can compare what's important to them. The Galaxy S suffers from terrible I/O and the hacks that have given the fixes typically boost Galaxy scores to nearly double their rates, and it's majorly attributed to improving a bunk I/O score.
Totally agree. In addition, it would be really nice to know which benchmarked factors are responsible for which functions. For example it is really interesting to see how the hd2 performs before the user is running the tests. When the user is scrolling through the setting menu there is a very noticible lag. Given the fact that the total score is nearly the same as the scrore for the SGS, and thar the graphic score of the hd2 is bad in comparisson to the SGS, I would conclude that graphic performance is very important for the way the ui responds.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
appelflap said:
Totally agree. In addition, it would be really nice to know which benchmarked factors are responsible for which functions. For example it is really interesting to see how the hd2 performs before the user is running the tests. When the user is scrolling through the setting menu there is a very noticible lag. Given the fact that the total score is nearly the same as the scrore for the SGS, and thar the graphic score of the hd2 is bad in comparisson to the SGS, I would conclude that graphic performance is very important for the way the ui responds.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
From what I can tell, the HD2 got a decent score 'cos it was running Froyo. When we get bumped up to an official froyo build with JIT fully optimized, We should be top of the pile.
don't forget, android isn't working 100% on the HD2.
I personally think it's pointless comparing to a not complete port.
woops dbl post
alovell83 said:
Quadrant scores have been criticized for their non-descript breakdowns, at least on their free suite. Also, the fact that they chose the weighting of the scores, so should they chose 2D is equal to 3D weight, I don't know their formula (and for all I know, they give equal weighting to all or they give equal weighting to all test where the CPU has 12 tests and the 3D graphics has 4), but the fact that we, as users don't have access to their formula on their website is a bit unnerving.
Add to that the fact that many reviews and videos rely on it so heavily leaves users a bit misinformed. In reality, and thorough review should definitely run a custom test suite to give individual scores to:
CPU
Memory
I/O
2D graphics
3D graphics
That way users can compare what's important to them. The Galaxy S suffers from terrible I/O and the hacks that have given the fixes typically boost Galaxy scores to nearly double their rates, and it's majorly attributed to improving a bunk I/O score.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even then though, it's possible to write a benchmark which wins constantly for any phone.
In regards to "terrible I/O", that might even be due to a bug in the FAT32 drivers. Yes you can benchmark it, but it wont mean much. The best way is to actually TEST the applications you need, rather than select a phone based on benchmarks. However, you are possibly best off looking at the component specs, because they ignore software bugs.
scrizz said:
don't forget, android isn't working 100% on the HD2.
I personally think it's pointless comparing to a not complete port.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
But the topic is about "what's in a score". Maybe one can generally say that is pointless to compare devices this way. I think that such benchmark scores are only (a bit) relevant at the two poles of the benchmark score spectrum. Everything in between can be neglected due to the uninformed way sub-scores are evaluated.
You got 55.7 FPS on Neocore as the sgs has vertical sync enabled, the refresh rate on the sgs'es screen is 56 fps and thus you can only go up to 56 fps as the v-sync is on. This proves that the sgs is indeed a much more powerful device that is actually being held back. If you can disable the v-sync then you can get a higher fps score
appelflap said:
But the topic is about "what's in a score". Maybe one can generally say that is pointless to compare devices this way. I think that such benchmark scores are only (a bit) relevant at the two poles of the benchmark score spectrum. Everything in between can be neglected due to the uninformed way sub-scores are evaluated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just read in a post that the Galaxy S gets a 0 on the 2D score:
"JIT isn't fully enabled in the current froyo versions, and quadrant, frankly, is bull**** (for exmple, 2d acceleration gets the same weight in the final result as 3D. Due to the fact that the SGS doesn't have a dedicated 2D accelerator, quadrant doesn't try to use the cpu- it just gives a round zero in that part)"
I can't confirm this, but that definitely seems like a terrible set-up, seeing as how I'm pretty sure I have games run in 2D, so to say that it can't do it just seems wrong regardless of if the SGS has a dedicated 2D accelerator or not (so if you aren't testing the way it performs in real-world, why are you testing?)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=737787&page=3
Qazz~ said:
You got 55.7 FPS on Neocore as the sgs has vertical sync enabled, the refresh rate on the sgs'es screen is 56 fps and thus you can only go up to 56 fps as the v-sync is on. This proves that the sgs is indeed a much more powerful device that is actually being held back. If you can disable the v-sync then you can get a higher fps score
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It isn't really being held back - the screen can't display more than 56 fps as you say, and it wouldn't really be visible even if it could. Disabling v-sync isn't really that important, we need a benchmark that can actually use the advanced features in the SGS GPU (Neocore just pushes a fairly small amount of polygons with no real extras.) Using current 3D benchmarks to benchmark the SGS is like using quake 1 to benchmark the brand new ATI/nVidia cards.
The benchmark is what is at fault here, not the device
RyanZA said:
It isn't really being held back - the screen can't display more than 56 fps as you say, and it wouldn't really be visible even if it could. Disabling v-sync isn't really that important, we need a benchmark that can actually use the advanced features in the SGS GPU (Neocore just pushes a fairly small amount of polygons with no real extras.) Using current 3D benchmarks to benchmark the SGS is like using quake 1 to benchmark the brand new ATI/nVidia cards.
The benchmark is what is at fault here, not the device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't want to speak for the other poster, and I agree with your premise, however, it isn't actually solving the issue at hand. Better FPS wouldn't be noticed, however, it would give a better score and, more importantly, indicate it's potential. So, getting 56FPS isn't doing the phone any justice within the score, which is what reviews are using, giving it an artificially low score, and putting it more in line with units that can't compete on higher end games. So, when a site like anand pushes 150FPS on a game, I know that means that their rig is entirely too powerful for the game in question, but it still means something when you compare it to the lower end graphics card that only gets 90...then when they run Crisis you see these results play out more with differences that we can notice with the eye.
I think the HD2 gets that score because, as I can see in the video, the CPU tests run faster compared to my SGS, probably because of Froyo, and I know, from the time I had the Diamond and the HD2, that the internal memory and RAM are very fast. Sadly SGS has a slow internal memory, atleast when used by the phone`s software, when copying from PC is faster than my class 6 microSD. Luckily, we have mimocan`s fix. Hope this will be fixed in future FW`s.
NexusHD2 with-FRG83D V1.7 with hastarin r8.5.1 On my HD2 got 1920 in quadrant,31.5 on neocore, and 37 on linmark.
The lag might be because you are using launcher pro, I use launcher pro and sometimes it makes the the lock lag on my phone but it doesn't happen when I use the default lock also if you have alot of Widgets on your screen it will cause lag also
appelflap said:
Look at this (from 1:44 on):
It's a quadrant benchmark run on a android port on the HD2. Graphics are really bad, but in the end it has approximately the same score as the benchmarking score of the Galaxy with the original firmware. I mean what is in a score? If I look at the beginning of the movie, the UI is very slow and not as responsive as the Galaxy
(BTW i got 55.7 FPS with the neocore benchmark on JM2)
This is not to say that I don't have deep respect for what the HD2-android development team is doing. Really amazing job. I just can't wait to get my HD2 back from repair.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
same galaxy s scores 6000+ in quadrant with custem roms
The HD 2 is a better fit for quadrent then the sgs as quadrent was made for the snapdragon processor which the hd2 has and the sgs does not. Comparing apples to orenges in an apple juice contest doesn't really prove much. Use real life feel. If you care about the scores a rom can be made to get you over 3000 quad score but is laggy as hell. Don't believe me? Look at my sig
interesting... I was using quadrant to see how a stock xxjvo and gingerreal compared. Surely that would indicate a real speed difference and not just be some kind of "hack" ?
zelendel said:
The HD 2 is a better fit for quadrent then the sgs as quadrent was made for the snapdragon processor which the hd2 has and the sgs does not.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's right.
HD2 uses two android OS :
- Cyanogenmod, that is faster than our samsung os..
- Nexus one's port to HD2, greatly optimized by google...
It's really fast. I upgraded my father's HD2 last month, replacing windows in the NAND with CM7. It really makes a big change, the phone is like brand new ^^
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1012556
Quadrant is pretty flawed. And I say that being someone who had a phone (before modifications) that was mid-range in Quadrant (Galaxy S), and having a phone that's right top of the heap (Galaxy S II)
One of my coworkers has a tmobile vibrant with some lag fix according to him.. he did a quadrant benchmark right in front of me and it was showing 2500 plus everytime.. Im very curious as to what is making his phone so fast. And can it be dont to ours. Hes not running a custom rom or overclocking. Im only getting 1030 with mine clocked at 1.2ghz. Any Ideas? I couldnt get into too much details with him yesterday and I dont know whens the next time ill see him..
If you were to look at a test break down you would see generally all the scores are identical or the epic a little ahead except in the read/write area. The scores from their read/write are just inflating their overall score. It's a issue with quadrant and how it handles its overall score. Basically it just makes the system easy to abuse/cheat. So I wouldn't worry much about the difference in your score and his.
Sent from my Samsung Epic
The reason other Galaxy S phones score high in quadrant is because of the lag fix they use. The lag fix mounts a different file system on the phone with DRAMATICALLY increases read-write times. That portion of the quadrant benchmark gets inflated beyond reason. Using this game technique, Cyanogen was able to score more than 3000 on a snapdragon phone.
All of the Galaxy S phones have the same processor. Also, quadrant is a terrible benchmark. It's the most over-quoted and abused benchmark for android phones
Ahh ok.. thats good to know.. so what would be a better benchmark to use? Linpack?
jok3sta said:
Ahh ok.. thats good to know.. so what would be a better benchmark to use? Linpack?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Linpack is good for measuring raw CPU processing power... but only on devices running the same version of android. Phones with 2.2 will score insanely high due to the JIT compiler. For example, a snapdragon phone with Froyo can score ~40 Mflops. A snapdragon phone with eclair scores around 7 Mflops. Does Froyo make the phone run 5-6X faster? Hell no. In some cases, the difference is almost unnoticeable to the human eye.
Here is a rundown of what I believe to be the pros and cons of various benchmarks:
Linpack
Pros:
- Good for measuring CPU processing power on the same version of Android
- Great tool for measuring the performance gain from overclocking
Cons
- Scores are boosted unreasonably by Froyo's JIT compiler on snapdragon phones
Quadrant
Pros:
- Great tool for measuring the performance gain from overclocking
- Decent tool for measuring 3D graphics performance (just pay attention to FPS, not the end result)
- Decent tool for measuring 2D graphics performance (again, look at FPS)
- The paid version ("Quadrant Pro" I believe) shows which parts of the benchmark contributed to the score. Easier to spot the inflated CPU or I/O inflation
Cons:
- I/O portion isn't valued as much as others, but can boost scores beyond reason via exploits, hacks, fixes, etc.
- CPU portion is inflated on phones running 2.2. A Nexus One is not faster than any Galaxy S, Droid X, Droid 2, etc.
Neocore
Pros:
- Good tool for measuring graphics processing power
Cons:
- Graphics are not intense enough to push the power of very fast GPU's. Some phones will hit their FPS limit
- Only measures graphics processing power.
Nenamark1
Pros:
- Great tool for measuring graphics processing power
- Effects are advanced enough to show the performance of faster GPUs in relation to phones with lesser GPUs.
Cons:
- Only measures graphics processing power.
Sweet thanks for all the info man..
Agreed, this is great info thanks. I think the quadrant score is the most quoted becuase it provides a very easy to read graph built in with it for instant comparing/gratification. I guess I am gonna start going by linpack and nenamark1.
hydralisk said:
Linpack is good for measuring raw CPU processing power... but only on devices running the same version of android. Phones with 2.2 will score insanely high due to the JIT compiler. For example, a snapdragon phone with Froyo can score ~40 Mflops. A snapdragon phone with eclair scores around 7 Mflops. Does Froyo make the phone run 5-6X faster? Hell no. In some cases, the difference is almost unnoticeable to the human eye.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Linpack is ok for when your using same CPU comparison, different CPU's can cause issues...The reason why snapdragon gets scores of 5-6x is for some reason the snapdragon utilizes the VFP rather then using raw processing power..aka snapdragon cheats on the Linpack.
In reality our I/O scores should be a lot higher then it is as even in the Epic some of samsung's crappy file system still exists. But not as high as the lagfixed Vibrant of course.
Quadrant Pro is probably best indicator out of them all(The non-pro version is pretty much useless unless your comparing the same phone)...the con of having 2.2 show is higher is expected as it is a measure of efficiency of JIT in comparison to the current. The OS always played a role in Benchmarks so it is expected.
it can be faked by using a different partition to test on. IIRC the data partition making the speeds much faster than they should be so be careful when accepting those high scores
rjmjr69 said:
it can be faked by using a different partition to test on. IIRC the data partition making the speeds much faster than they should be so be careful when accepting those high scores
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It is not exactly faking it..as you are increasing performance..thing is you cannot see at what it performs well at unless you see the individual scores from the Pro version....
I just scored 2597 on a DK17 FroYo ROM (Quantum Rom v1.5 {WarpSpeed}) running at a stock 1.0 GHz. I believe this sets a record for a stock CPU on Android.
(At least it does according to smartphonebenchmarks.com) UPDATE - It's official. This is the 8th highest recorded Quadrant score and the very highest recorded stock clocked CPU score on that website.
This score was made possible by the EXT3 (EDIT - Correction, ramdisk) hack implemented in the most recent version of the ROM, released this morning.
EDIT - I'd like to note that the "lagfix" was incorporated into the ROM by the author with noobnl's assistance to prove a point; neither condone the serious use of Quadrant scores in it's current form. This hack is purely a Quadrant scores boost and does not provide real-world benefits. It is a demonstration that we should not rely upon inaccurate measurements to tell us what ROM or hardware is best.
An exploitable benchmark is no benchmark at all.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11825908/snap20101127_124836.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11825908/snap20101127_131805.png
So just to clarify, does the ext3 hack do nothing other than improve benchmark scores? Is there any real-world improvement?
As common knowledge as the Quadrant thing is, I'm amazed people KEEP IMPLEMENTING this tweak and bragging about the results... unless there was an actual (less-drastic than Quadrant shows) improvement.
I agree that first we have to look at the big picture..while it may not help as much as the number makes it out to be, that doesn't necessary mean that it gives no benefit.
Next is this, why do people complain about Quadrant so much? you are using a FREE version..the FREE version only gives you a total number..Quadrant Pro on the other hand gives you the scores in each category..and is actually one of the best for measuring atm on android...
Electrofreak said:
I just scored 2597 on a DK17 FroYo ROM (Quantum Rom v1.5 {WarpSpeed}) running at a stock 1.0 GHz. I believe this sets a record for a stock CPU on Android.
(At least it does according to smartphonebenchmarks.com)
This score was made possible by the EXT3 hack implemented in the most recent version of the ROM, released this morning.
An exploitable benchmark is no benchmark at all.
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11825908/snap20101127_124836.png
http://dl.dropbox.com/u/11825908/snap20101127_131805.png
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it is true, we mounted benchmark data folder as a ramdisk/tmpfs, theres no ext3 filesystem in the rom because just for the lulz and educate the group that a lag fix won't do ****.. just to cheat a benchmark.. we were pissed at roms user thinking making rfs to ext3 will make performance better...
gTen said:
I agree that first we have to look at the big picture..while it may not help as much as the number makes it out to be, that doesn't necessary mean that it gives no benefit.
Next is this, why do people complain about Quadrant so much? you are using a FREE version..the FREE version only gives you a total number..Quadrant Pro on the other hand gives you the scores in each category..and is actually one of the best for measuring atm on android...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It has nothing to do with cost. It has to do with the fact that Quadrant is the most commonly used benchmark and it is deeply flawed.
Yes, the Pro version does break down the scores. Most people don't pay for Quadrant. Secondly, the I/O scores are weighted very heavily... the score nearly tripled because an I/O test completed a little quicker. There's a significant problem with that.
I've been impressed by the Epic's speed, but your scores aren't truly valid because you are "cheating"
I assume you're using the new Quantum ROM (which I also have installed) that implements a lagfix in which one moves the app data and dalvik cache away from Samsung’s embarrasingly slow internal Storage. Doing this significantly boosts I/O scores in Quadrant, thereby cheating the system. In real-life use, your system is barely performing any faster than before the exploit/lagfix
Read here for more info to see how a dev exploited this to create a 3300 Quad score (can't post links so remove the spaces):
http : // androidspin .com /2010/08/23/my-quadrant-is-bigger-than-your-quadrant/
This exploit has even been confirmed by the almighty Cyanogen himself
So is there any real benifits to this Epic 4G "lag fix"? I've seen that the "lag fix" within the other galaxy S phones actually does give real world results...
Eazail70x7 said:
So is there any real benifits to this Epic 4G "lag fix"? I've seen that the "lag fix" within the other galaxy S phones actually does give real world results...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, it provides a speed benefit. The only thing being addressed in this thread is that, just because your quadrant scores double, it doesn't mean your device is twice as fast in actual use
Look for Dameon's post a couple of days ago in the quantum rom thread (on tapatalk..and linking sux). He talks about this exploit, but sadly (and understandably), most of the rom migrants want something to quantify expected results.. Even if bs
sent from my RAZR
Its not fair to say quadrant cheats.. rather it just may or may not be measuring performance of an operation that is ever really used on your system. In fact your system does use some fsyncs like quadrant and those will be faster like quadrant. Your system could start using fewer fsyncs though and quadrant would never know. Also your device certainly doesn't use only fsyncs..but those are very related to the lag. So basically, quadrant says the lag fix works if I'm not missing something. That's OK...but you don't need a crazy number to say that.
Bottom line... the only thing that tells how your phone performs...is how your phone performs and that's not just some little disclaimer. Hardware speed depends DRAMATICALLY on how it is used.
Sent from my SHW-M110S using XDA App
biff6789 said:
Sure, it provides a speed benefit. The only thing being addressed in this thread is that, just because your quadrant scores double, it doesn't mean your device is twice as fast in actual use
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually the tweak, as noobnl states, quite specifically provides NO performance improvements to the phone. He would know because he made the hack. See the quote below.
noobnl said:
it is true, we mounted benchmark data folder as a ramdisk/tmpfs, theres no ext3 filesystem in the rom because just for the lulz and educate the group that a lag fix won't do ****.. just to cheat a benchmark.. we were pissed at roms user thinking making rfs to ext3 will make performance better...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Moving on...
biff6789 said:
I've been impressed by the Epic's speed, but your scores aren't truly valid because you are "cheating"
I assume you're using the new Quantum ROM (which I also have installed) that implements a lagfix in which one moves the app data and dalvik cache away from Samsung’s embarrasingly slow internal Storage. Doing this significantly boosts I/O scores in Quadrant, thereby cheating the system. In real-life use, your system is barely performing any faster than before the exploit/lagfix
Read here for more info to see how a dev exploited this to create a 3300 Quad score (can't post links so remove the spaces):
http : // androidspin .com /2010/08/23/my-quadrant-is-bigger-than-your-quadrant/
This exploit has even been confirmed by the almighty Cyanogen himself
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This was the whole point of my post... I think you might have missed that. I would also recommend this article as well: http://briefmobile.com/cyanogen-demonstrates-quadrants-flaws
Electrofreak said:
It has nothing to do with cost. It has to do with the fact that Quadrant is the most commonly used benchmark and it is deeply flawed.
Yes, the Pro version does break down the scores. Most people don't pay for Quadrant. Secondly, the I/O scores are weighted very heavily... the score nearly tripled because an I/O test completed a little quicker. There's a significant problem with that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well realistically speaking even without the I/O exploit the none pro version never had any meaning to it..why?
Well it measures:
CPU
Memory
I/O
2d
3d
Now lets look at it from perspective..lets say we have a score of 3000 and 99% of it comes from 3d..the phone would still be laggy because even though it may have a good gpu it won't have the other things to back it up.
Quadrant weighs everything evenly...it exists for the sole purpose of getting people to buy the pro version..
So its not Quadrant that is flawed but the people who actually think a large number means everything is automatically super fast...
So in most cases yes, the I/O increase would be almost useless as nothing would utilize it to the point where you would need to utilize such high I/O..unless maybe you plan to run a database server on your phone? lol
But like any benchmark we have to not only look at the number but understand what the number means..similar to how on a linpack gets cheated on with use of a VFP since it measures with floating points...
Heck I can write a program called gTen Score which does an md5 sum of every file on the device and the closer the device is to mine the higher score it would get..would that make the device with the highest score the best? lol..benchmarks are benchmarks...we have to understand them and look at the details to how the numbers got there..In my opinion if its not Quadrant Pro people are wasting their time with the benchmark...
gTen said:
Well realistically speaking even without the I/O exploit the none pro version never had any meaning to it..why?
Well it measures:
CPU
Memory
I/O
2d
3d
Now lets look at it from perspective..lets say we have a score of 3000 and 99% of it comes from 3d..the phone would still be laggy because even though it may have a good gpu it won't have the other things to back it up.
Quadrant weighs everything evenly...it exists for the sole purpose of getting people to buy the pro version..
So its not Quadrant that is flawed but the people who actually think a large number means everything is automatically super fast...
So in most cases yes, the I/O increase would be almost useless as nothing would utilize it to the point where you would need to utilize such high I/O..unless maybe you plan to run a database server on your phone? lol
But like any benchmark we have to not only look at the number but understand what the number means..similar to how on a linpack gets cheated on with use of a VFP since it measures with floating points...
Heck I can write a program called gTen Score which does an md5 sum of every file on the device and the closer the device is to mine the higher score it would get..would that make the device with the highest score the best? lol..benchmarks are benchmarks...we have to understand them and look at the details to how the numbers got there..In my opinion if its not Quadrant Pro people are wasting their time with the benchmark...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You make some very good points, but Quadrant IS flawed in that it should be able to test performance in a manner that is more consistent with real-world performance. A benchmark tool that provides poor results for a different configuration of hardware or software (in this case, Samsung's RFS file system) when performance is in on par or even superior to a higher-scoring configuration is a benchmark tool with serious flaws.
Electrofreak said:
You make some very good points, but Quadrant IS flawed in that it should be able to test performance in a manner that is more consistent with real-world performance. A benchmark tool that provides poor results for a different configuration of hardware or software (in this case, Samsung's RFS file system) when performance is in on par or even superior to a higher-scoring configuration is a benchmark tool with serious flaws.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The flaw of quadrant is grouping up all of those categories into 1...usually as you said things are weighted into a benchmark and each benchmark measures things like 3d performance, i/o performance an etc would each be a separate benchmark..Quadrant will never do that because their goal is for you to buy the pro version...it was never intended to be used for anything other then a proof of concept for selling the pro version...
Since people are not gonna buy Quadrant Pro..the best way is to get them to use a different benchmark...I hear some people touting GLBenchmark is it any better?
gTen said:
The flaw of quadrant is grouping up all of those categories into 1...usually as you said things are weighted into a benchmark and each benchmark measures things like 3d performance, i/o performance an etc would each be a separate benchmark..Quadrant will never do that because their goal is for you to buy the pro version...it was never intended to be used for anything other then a proof of concept for selling the pro version...
Since people are not gonna buy Quadrant Pro..the best way is to get them to use a different benchmark...I hear some people touting GLBenchmark is it any better?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been following GLBenchmark and it seems pretty accurate as far as I can tell. A buddy of mine outed the HTC Glacier (Mytouch 4G) when he found that a developer had erroneously left scores posted on GLBenchmark.com. We could tell it was a next-gen Snapdragon by the scores, and that it wasn't running an Adreno 200. Became big news soon thereafter.
Electrofreak said:
I've been following GLBenchmark and it seems pretty accurate as far as I can tell. A buddy of mine outed the HTC Glacier (Mytouch 4G) when he found that a developer had erroneously left scores posted on GLBenchmark.com. We could tell it was a next-gen Snapdragon by the scores... became big news soon thereafter.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well then the best bet is to contact rom developers and ask if they could include GLBenchmark instead of quadrant and explain the benefits of having a specified benchmark over a general unweighed one..
and yeah I saw th HTC Glacier thing..
Electrofreak said:
This was the whole point of my post... I think you might have missed that. I would also recommend this article as well: http://briefmobile.com/cyanogen-demonstrates-quadrants-flaws
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You're right, I originally DID miss your point. My bad... I thought you were just another fanboi raving about the awesomeness of Quadrant. I should have read more carefully
But in essence, you and I were saying the same thing all along: Quadrant is bunk and can easily be manipulated by a tmpfs tweak
As for my other point about lagfixes offering real-world performance boosts in other phones, I was saying "yes" in a general way as often times they do, not "yes" specifically regarding Dameon's tweak
biff6789 said:
You're right, I originally DID miss your point. My bad... I thought you were just another fanboi raving about the awesomeness of Quadrant. I should have read more carefully
But in essence, you and I were saying the same thing all along: Quadrant is bunk and can easily be manipulated by a tmpfs tweak
As for my other point about lagfixes offering real-world performance boosts in other phones, I was saying "yes" in a general way as often times they do, not "yes" specifically regarding Dameon's tweak
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Yeah, and from what I understand (forgive me, I am still a relative newcomer here) the other Galaxy S phones mount their file directory a little differently than the Epic does, negating the need for a real lag fix. However, the Captivate lag-fix, for example, does indeed provide actual performance improvements. Perhaps this misunderstanding is what is causing people to believe that the Epic needs to have some sort of lag fix too.
Electrofreak said:
Yeah, and from what I understand (forgive me, I am still a relative newcomer here) the other Galaxy S phones mount their file directory a little differently than the Epic does, negating the need for a real lag fix. However, the Captivate lag-fix, for example, does indeed provide actual performance improvements. Perhaps this misunderstanding is what is causing people to believe that the Epic needs to have some sort of lag fix too.
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You're exactly right. Dameon himself stated that the other Galaxy phones need a lagfix while the Epic does not (read the last line of the following post):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9440522&postcount=1174
quadrant has been known to very inaccurate. I forget who it was but someone tweaking their evo was able to get like 6000 on quadrant awhile ago. After that it has been tricked many times into giving big numbers with no actual improvements over the actual phone itself.
So I flashed Skyraider today, and my quadrant score dropped 100 points from stock sense. What the hell is going on here....
The Black Droid said:
So I flashed Skyraider today, and my quadrant score dropped 100 points from stock sense. What the hell is going on here....
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Sitting at 1032. With the stock ROM, I was getting around 1120.
Why are these scores so low???
Q scores || ROMs
Quadrant scores vary by ROM and kernel, and by different kernels in the same ROM.
Those scores are expected to vary.
Quadrant scores, don't take those to heart... It's all about feel. I've run roms where they might score low, but feel and move quick.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
I just don't understand how some of these guys have anywhere from 2700-3300 as their quad score. I would imagine their phones are running insanely fast
Maybe, they are most likely overclocking. Some phones don't like going too high. Like on mine, I can't go over 1.113, or my phone slows to a crawl and locks up/reboots.
Sent from my ADR6300 using XDA App
The Black Droid said:
I just don't understand how some of these guys have anywhere from 2700-3300 as their quad score. I would imagine their phones are running insanely fast
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Where have you seen people post these scores for their Inc?
I'm willing to bet good money that if you are seeing people post scores that high, they are either:
A. Not running Quadrant from an Inc but a much more powerful device (like an Android tablet)
B. Faking the results in Photoshop (or just lying about the number if no screenshot is provided)
C. Running a setup that doesn't actually run through the Quadrant test properly. For example, Quadrant didn't run properly on Gingerbread roms at first, and the scores that it would produce were extremely erratic. Sometimes they would be extremely low, sometimes they would be extremely high, but they weren't accurate or repeatable.
D. Running some sort of insane setup that is only stable enough to finish a Quadrant run, and will never actually be used for anything
Frankly, even D is far-fetched.
I would be inclined to call a 100 point fluctuation in Quadrant scores insignificant.
If you really want to chase the highest benchmark scores, you'll need to overclock your CPU and run the system as lean as possible. That means uninstalling or disabling a lot of the things that make your life easier day-to-day.
Also, in case you haven't already seen it in your own testing, Quadrant scores are always lowest on the first run. If you press the back button and immediately start a new Quadrant run, you'll get a much higher score.
Like any unit of measurement, Quadrant scores do serve a useful purpose. But as is often the case when the score itself is seen by some as the end-goal, it is often misapplied.
The same can be seen in digital cameras and the megapixel arms race. Everyone wants to brag about how many megapixels their camera is capable of. Everyone wants the highest number of megapixels, assuming that more MP = better image. Few people realize what it actually means, or why it matters very little these days.
A lot of those people are overclocking to get really high scores and for all the reasons listed above (nice post!).
You really should not be looking to get that high on the incredible, you'll end up draining your battery like crazy. Around the 1,000 mark is great for playing higher-end games on the market as long as you aren't running a bunch of things in the background. Just about anything else you can think up of doing on your phone should run well, you won't have a sluggish device and you won't be killing your battery either.
If you do end up trying to overclock your phone or using a ROM or kernel combination that will give you a much higher score I don't think you'll notice any difference when doing anything on your phone, but your battery will drop much quicker.
Like other people have said, Quad scores don't matter much- take them lightly as you see them.
There is a lot that goes into that score. The highest score I could get today is 1656 but it was consistently in the Upper 1500s, I ran 5 tests.
My setup:
CM7 RC2
Incredikernel 03/06 OC to 1113Mhz/Performance Govenor
16Gb Class 2 microSD card.
If someone is using a class 4 or a class 6 card their i/o scores could be much higher than mine which would result in a much higher overall score than mine. Also keep in mind with Linux Kernels can very alot and that there are different types of task schedulers in them such as BFS or CFS which can have dramatic affect on the quadrent scores. Quadrent tends to score BFS kernels higher. So yeah I can believe people are hitting most of the score they post up. However byrong is right about it not being a setup you'd want to use on a daily basis. For me it causes random reboots, my phone gets hot and the UI becomes laggy after a little while also the battery drops like a brick.
My normal setup that I run on a daily basis is the same kernel uc to 803Mhz/smartass governor. It is extremely stable and is smooth as butter but my quadrent scores are only only in the 1100s with my high being 1244.
Its really not all about the score, if your happy with the performance who cares about the score.
After updating to 3.1 I ran a few quadrant tests and instead of the 2000-2100 scores i normally get i am not getting 1500-1600 ... Usually updates boost performance not lower it
so i guess that begs the question: is your TF's performance lower?
Dark lord me said:
After updating to 3.1 I ran a few quadrant tests and instead of the 2000-2100 scores i normally get i am not getting 1500-1600 ... Usually updates boost performance not lower it
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I noticed this too... BUT... the system seems a lot faster and more responsive, so i guess scores arent everything.
For sure score isn't everything, even more with quadrant.
Sent from my GT-P1000 using XDA App
quadrant came out and has not been updated since the nexus 1 got 2.2. so its kind of flawed and old. current best benchmark is either Vellamo or AnTuTu
Vellamo is a web browser benchmark IIRC, where as Quadrant is a CPU/GPU benchmark. I dont know about the other one you mentioned.
15xx is pretty damn low, I'm getting around 35xx with Quadrant at 1.5 GHz. Check your clockspeed in setcpu to make sure nothing is out of wack.
mrevankyle said:
quadrant came out and has not been updated since the nexus 1 got 2.2. so its kind of flawed and old. current best benchmark is either Vellamo or AnTuTu
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Or CF Bench
Sent from my Nexus S using XDA Premium App
Or actually using the tablet. If it seems faster when you use it, its better. Benchmarks are pretty useless, especially since they can be skewed or manipulated
quadrant is a horrible benchmark. there are hacks and tweaks to get you stupid high scores.
Wierd i get2 2600
Tortel1210 said:
Or actually using the tablet. If it seems faster when you use it, its better. Benchmarks are pretty useless, especially since they can be skewed or manipulated
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That's dumb. I clearly spent 400 dollars so I can get my electronics to tell me that I am cool. If my number is lower, then I am not cool.
sassafras
My quadrant is 1.7 not rooted or anything. I must say this tab runs extremely fast and I have no problems with it minus apps crashing once in a blue moon. If quadrant ment something my vibrant has 2.2k and it still doesn't run as smooth as my tab
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
Dark lord me said:
After updating to 3.1 I ran a few quadrant tests and instead of the 2000-2100 scores i normally get i am not getting 1500-1600 ... Usually updates boost performance not lower it
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I too used to be quadrant this or that using it as a gauge...then after I owned a few android devices...I came to the conclusion...its a piece of ****... First its inaccurate...my EVO. 3d is way faster then my color nookut yet I get better scores with the nook...same with the tf...second...it uses testing methods that can be cheated by some settings...hardware stuff..3rd...if you run it 3 times...you will usually get 3 different darn scores that range widely. To me using is the best test...not benchmarks..however if you need to use this as a guage...do it...but be warned...for real life...it don't mean anything
sassafras_ said:
That's dumb. I clearly spent 400 dollars so I can get my electronics to tell me that I am cool. If my number is lower, then I am not cool.
sassafras
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It's not dumb when the software is deeply, deeply flawed....quadrant that is.
life64x said:
It's not dumb when the software is deeply, deeply flawed....quadrant that is.
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I think your sarcasm meter is broken.
...
Quadrant is broken because it doesn't weight different aspects of the benchmark equally. The Nexus One has a terrible GPU but a fast CPU, so it gets decent scores. The BN Nook Color has a mediocre CPU and a decent GPU so it scores better than the N1 even though the N1 is clearly the superior device.
Changing the file system to something journaled can bump your Quadrant score a few hundred points, which is dumb.
The ideal benchmark would somehow score in a way that represented the overall user experience. Unfortunately, no such benchmark exists for Android. Until then, it's just these pieces of crap that only exist so teenagers can show off their e-peen on the internet.
sassafras
sassafras_ said:
I think your sarcasm meter is broken.
...
Quadrant is broken because it doesn't weight different aspects of the benchmark equally. The Nexus One has a terrible GPU but a fast CPU, so it gets decent scores. The BN Nook Color has a mediocre CPU and a decent GPU so it scores better than the N1 even though the N1 is clearly the superior device.
Changing the file system to something journaled can bump your Quadrant score a few hundred points, which is dumb.
The ideal benchmark would somehow score in a way that represented the overall user experience. Unfortunately, no such benchmark exists for Android. Until then, it's just these pieces of crap that only exist so teenagers can show off their e-peen on the internet.
sassafras
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I was saying that!!! I figured from your first reply...if you spent 400 it should be off the chain for the score. Quadrant is deeply, deeply flawed. If I mis-read your reply then it is my fault but I was not using sarcasm or being flippant but just stating what we both said.
life64x said:
I was saying that!!! I figured from your first reply...if you spent 400 it should be off the chain for the score. Quadrant is deeply, deeply flawed. If I mis-read your reply then it is my fault but I was not using sarcasm or being flippant but just stating what we both said.
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he wasn't accusing you if being sarcastic, he was being sarcastic.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using Tapatalk
Thanks, my bad. I am a optimist and thought my pessimist came out... With only a couple hours sleep my mind plays tricks on me. Oh well, go back to watching dune...I would have used my gom jabber( watch dune to know what I mean).
Only thing worst than benchmark nerds are benchmark nerds who are stupid enough to still be using quadrant software that's over a year old and is not optimized for dualcore or honeycomb.