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Hi!Can i use an unlocked hermes,(apart from the tytn),in any country round the world?Anybody tried doing so??Thanks!
No mobile works in every country around the world.
I think that answer is a bit terse. A quad-band phone like the Hermes can be used in virtually any country. Take a look here, and you'll see that with the 850, 900, 1800 & 1900 MHz bands covered there's not many countries you can't get a signal in.
http://www.coveragemaps.com/gsmposter_freqbands.htm
I'm not familiar with Japanese requirements, but while it stands out as having a different set of requirements, I'm reasonably sure the Hermes works there too.
Testing it out in every single country could be a bit of a large proposition though.
totallytechie said:
I think that answer is a bit terse. A quad-band phone like the Hermes can be used in virtually any country. Take a look here, and you'll see that with the 850, 900, 1800 & 1900 MHz bands covered there's not many countries you can't get a signal in.
http://www.coveragemaps.com/gsmposter_freqbands.htm
I'm not familiar with Japanese requirements, but while it stands out as having a different set of requirements, I'm reasonably sure the Hermes works there too.
Testing it out in every single country could be a bit of a large proposition though.
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Click to collapse
So add the countries with 850/1900/2100 UMTS to the GSM list, and you'll have a comprehensive list... and yes, Japan uses 2100 UMTS, so you can add that one, too.
That just leaves the wierd 1700 spectrum .. wonder if any country is running that ..
gravejoker said:
That just leaves the wierd 1700 spectrum .. wonder if any country is running that ..
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Not yet and probably not for a few years...
So in short,if i unlock the device,i may be able to use its phone capabilities on any carrier in the whole world,provided the carrier uses one of the 4 bands for communicating.The carrier may be anyone apart from the tmobile,o2,orange,cingular,vodafone?!
Yes ... you can use an unlocked TyTN on any carrier in the world that has one of the 7 bands that TyTN supports (4 GSM + 3 UMTS) ..
Ok thanks...the reason behind that question is that i'm going to Mauritius(a lost island situated in the indian ocean, beside reunion island) for a few weeks..And i wanted to be sure that my unlocked m3100 would work perfectly there...Anyway, thanks for ypur kind support..
Ahha .. Mauritius .. You are lucky my friend .. what a beautiful place from what I have heard .. enjoy your trip ..
Thanks,mauritius,the paradise on earth,here i come!
Thanks,mauritius,the paradise on earth,here i come!
gravejoker said:
That just leaves the wierd 1700 spectrum .. wonder if any country is running that ..
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goestoeleven said:
Not yet and probably not for a few years...
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Update: At the end of Nov 2006 T-Mobile won FCC auctions in 120 US markets for spectrum licenses in the 2100 and 1700 frequency bands. It is reported they will start rolling out service during 2007 (Sources: T-Mobile US Press Releases and Wikipedia). So the answer now appears to be, yes, the 1700 spectrum will be used extensively by T-Mobile USA.
I am not personally aware of any HTC phones which support 1700 yet. I am no engineer, but my assumption is that this could not be done through software upgrades on any existing devices. I imagine it will require different radio hardware. Clarification from the experts on this forum would be much appreciated.
Just a note of caution I've tried to use an unlocked VPA compact III in Barbados on the Bmobile network, but I can't geta signal. If I use a vodafone card I manage to get a signal, so I'm not sure all carriers support this phone.
flamingcrumb said:
I am not personally aware of any HTC phones which support 1700 yet. I am no engineer, but my assumption is that this could not be done through software upgrades on any existing devices. I imagine it will require different radio hardware. Clarification from the experts on this forum would be much appreciated.
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Yes, a software upgrade cannot physically synthesize circuitry to support the 1700Mhz frequency channel.
Looking at the hermes architecture, their LNA's have just enough frequency coverage to support the 7 bands. So the answer is a concrete no in re: 1700MHz.
It is possible to deisgn an LNA with a larger bandwidth, for example, to cover frequencies from 1500MHZ to 2300MHZ configurable via MEMS capacitors and inductors (I have a PhD student working on this atm, but he is facing the problem of keeping up the gain as well as linearity of the amplifier). Motivation for this: the fewer LNA's the less power a device will consuming yielding greater battery life.
HTC maybe should think about hardware re-configurability as well, but then again, they would like to make their devices obselete ASAP.
NO, you cannot use it worldwide
I could not receive a signal in Brazil with my 8525. Others reported the same problem with the Samsung Blackjack. Cingular has not provided a solution to our problem.
I hope the band select hack that I found on this great XDA forum will let me use my unlocked 8525 in Brazil next time I go in March.
Australia, if I recall, was also a problem for a Blackjack user. See the Blackjack thread on the Cingular forum for details on our tribulations.
Rgds
Ben
I have used my TyTN in the USA, Japan, Taiwan, Thailand, Cambodia, Singapore, Philippines and Hong Kong all with no problems. All locations outside the USA were with pre-paid local SIM cards (except Japan and Taiwan, which were roaming on Cingular).
Are the people having problems using a Cingular SIM (and roaming), or using a local pre-paid card?
I got full coverage in the Geylang District in Singapore. full bars.
Am I right to understand that an 8525 purchased from Cingular is locked to Cingular and in order to use in another country it would need to be unlocked prior to inserting another sim card? Would I simply ask Cingular to provide the unlock code for such use?
I'm having a Problem using a local pre-paid SIM card in Barbados, if I Roam on Vodafone which is my original carrier then it's no problem at all
This broke my heart... and I work for T-Mobile. Why on earth would HTC/SE make a phone that practically every company in the world can use with 3G, but not T-Mobile!? Frustrated.
gregnm369 said:
This broke my heart... and I work for T-Mobile. Why on earth would HTC/SE make a phone that practically every company in the world can use with 3G, but not T-Mobile!? Frustrated.
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Then why don't you blame T-mobile for building their 3G network on 2100mzh while there others are using 850/900/1900 for YEARS?
jackleung said:
Then why don't you blame T-mobile for building their 3G network on 2100mzh while there others are using 850/900/1900 for YEARS?
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AT&T is 2100mhz... T-Mobile USA is 1700mhz
Uh...ATT is 850/1900, FYI. Tmobile is 1700/2100 both, not either or.
jvs60 said:
Uh...ATT is 850/1900, FYI. Tmobile is 1700/2100 both, not either or.
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That's strange. A G1 is unlockable to ATT, but only supports UMTS 1700/2100. The G1's in our store access 3G just fine. My X1i won't access anything but EDGE (not 3G). Since the G1 supports 1700 and X1i does not, this is the logical deduction that the X1i doesn't support the same standard that the G1 does which is T-Mobile USA 3G
gregnm369 said:
Why on earth would HTC/SE make a phone that practically every company in the world can use with 3G, but not T-Mobile!?
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hmmm... let me state it upside down:
"Why on earth would T-MOBILE chose a band NOT USED BY ANY OTHER COMPANY IN THE WORLD ??"
Sounds better this way
Or... you can say it like this:
"Why on earth would HTC/SE or ANY other phone maker include in all their phones a band that is ONLY USED by T-MOBILE ??"
This one is even worst
PS: It's true, T-Mobile is the ONLY operator using the 1700+2100 martian band don't blame phone makers
And beware: it is NOT "1700 & 2100" but "1700 PLUS 2100" (one band for uplink and the other band for downlink)
SUCH A FREAK !!
gregnm369 said:
AT&T is 2100mhz... T-Mobile USA is 1700mhz
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Are you kidding me that you are working for a carrier and you don't even know what bands your company (or your competitor) is using? I am starting to understand why you would blame the phone manufacture now ....
Why would HTC/SE make a phone that practically every company in the world can use with 3G, but not T-Mobile?
Why would T-mobile chose a 3G band (1700+2100mhz) not used by any other company in the world?
It's really quite complicated, so I'll keep it simple (although the details won't be very clear).
It's neither HTC/SE nor T-mobile's fault. Unlike in Europe, the American government (FCC) does not define or reserve specific bands (1900mhz, 2100mhz, etc) for specific technologies (GSM, UMTS, CDMA, etc). The US government also does not want to reallocate bands that are already being used, even if it's for older technology. Since VoiceStream (Tmo before Deutsche Telekom bought it) didn't have any money to buy spectrum in advance for 3G, that pretty much means that T-mobile has had to settle for whatever bands are leftover.
T-mobile wanted to keep their US 3G bands the same as in Europe, but the lower half (uplink) is already occupied by another technology (which the FCC cannot or will not vacate). So the only choice was to launch 3G on the 1700+2100mhz "AWS" band, or have no 3G at all. And without 3G, AT&T would have a monopoly on UMTS, Tmo would lose business with only 2G, and we as customers would suffer in the long run (especially since without competition, AT&T could keep its prices artificially high).
For the other points, contrary to popular belief, Tmo is not the only carrier in the world that runs a UMTS network in the 1700mhz range. Carrier e-Mobile in Japan runs a UMTS 1700 network. It is slightly different than Tmo's AWS because e-Mobile uses 1700-uplink/1800-downlink (UMTS Band IX) while Tmo uses 1700-uplink/2100-downlink (UMTS Band IV) and is therefore still incompatible. However, as with the G1, it is fully possible to build a radio that can switch between "overlapping" modes (eg: 1700+2100 and 1900+2100* on the G1), it just isn't very cost-effective to make those radios at the moment.
*1900+2100 does not mean AT&T's UMTS 1900mhz network. It's 1900mhz uplink and 2100mhz downlink, and you can see the specific frequency differences here (UMTS Bands I and II).
Keep in mind (and this is a more general point): GSM started off with most phones being only dual-mode (900/1800mhz or 850/1900mhz), but after the technology matured tri- and quad-band radios became commonplace, and now quad-GSM phones are found everywhere. In time we might see a penta-band (850/900/1700/1900/2100) "global" UMTS radio become standard on all phones -- just not with the X1. Then again, by the time we see penta-radios, we will move on to 4G, and with the current split between WiMAX and LTE, we will probably have these same headaches all over again.
So if you want someone to blame, blame the FCC for being unable or unwilling to harmonize the US wireless spectrum with other global standards. Tmo, HTC, and SE are merely just trying to play the cards dealt to them.
--
You might also stop to consider: it is still possible for SE to release a Tmo-capable X1 (let's call it the X1t), but the only advantage is that it would work with Tmo, and thus only Tmo customers would buy it (unlike the X1a which can work with any 850/1900/2100mhz carrier, not just AT&T). That makes it cost-prohibitive at the moment. Furthermore, since it would be sold in the American market, the Qualcomm patent restrictions would still apply, and you would end up with the MSM7201A processor which many X1a users have been complaining about. There is just no perfect answer.
Thank you for clarifying. I learned something from that.
Anyone who understands this "spectrum" 3g AT&T Tmob issue more than I.... I have a ?
Okay so here it goes....
WTF!!!!!!!!!!!???
So I've been reading all day to understand this and I do get how we ended up screwed on 3g from the rest of the world
Tmob is on "aws" which is sort of a halfway between 2100/1900 of Europe at 2100/1700
AT&T is on 1900/850 or 850... I couldn't find a straight answer on that.
Now everyone says this is "hardware" in the phone that dictates this issue. I've been researching (this is where I could use your help) and I'm missing something. Nexus one is using Qualcomm Snapdragon™ 3G QSD8250.... This AMAZING chip is not only the processor but the 3g chipset as well... (correct?) Yet this same chip is in the LG expo and the LG expo has 850/1900/2100 for it's 3g.
It would seem to me... (a simple man) that Qualcomm would NOT produce separate chips but would use some firmware/software to let the chip determine which frequencies to use. Otherwise they would have to stamp out more than one chip instead of just having one factory.
The other major issue I see is antenna length is a physical characteristic based on the radio wave you are trying to receive/send. So that may have to change too but that's more about being optimum than impossible.
Not that anyone has the cash for this but what would stop someone with REALLY amazing soldering skills from switching the two supposedly identical chipsets? Would that extremely silly idea work?
Just a thought that I thought a few people on this forum may understand more than I do.
First, the radio ROM should be the one to dictate what frequencies are supported if the radio chip can support multiple frequencies, which it does. There is a soft radio chip from Samsung (I think it's Samsung) that can be reprogrammed to change which carrier it's supporting, but I haven't read of it being used yet. I believe that's the future, but currently you get a chip that almost universally supports European 3G and quad-band GSM w/EDGE out of the box, and then *one* set of US/Canadian frequencies. That's it.
WIND (new Canadian carrier) is using the same AWS spectrum as T-Mobile US is, so that should give more "pull" for more AWS support in future handsets, but with T-Mobile moving toward a "dumb pipe" arrangement (no annoying a la carte options, no music services, no stupid "extras" to pay for, just voice/data/text plans) the hope is more devices will be available in the open market that will just work on T-Mobile and support whatever you're paying for. Since your ISP is just "there" and "supports" (ish) whatever you're using, the hope is T-Mobile US will set the trend for that behavior here, and WIND might be going the same way in Canada, and FINALLY bring this mentality to North America.
If that works out, expect to see more soft radio chips and ROMs to come out with these handsets so they can be "flipped" from network to network and still support all the data and voice options. If it doesn't (I think it will to some degree), then expect the long and annoying tradition of vertically integrated handset and carrier support where the handset has to be "made" to support whatever options the carrier chooses (for compatibility and being as cheap as possible to make) and not have full, cross network support for devices.
Softchips aren't common and won't be. You could probably swap the chips directly, but it's going to cause issues.
T-Mobile uses AWS, which is 1700/2100 for down/up stream. It's considered GSM band 4, which is different from Europe, who uses a 900 band and a 2100 band, both of those are full up/downloads on close bands, so some places use 900, some use 2100, some offer both. It's a bit different. The Nexus One supposed 900/AWS/2100, meaning it's 100% Europe and T-Mobile compatible. We're seeing more and more of these chips since it's significantly simpler than making Euro + AT&T chips.
Motorola is developing a chip with AWS + 850/1900, meaning sometime next year, we should be seeing truly "USA" model cell phones, which will support any US GSM carrier. Euro+USA full could come eventually, but the addition of AWS means it'd take a 5-band chip instead of Quad band like EDGE.
T-Mobile 3G Upgrade
FCC cleared radio frequencies about 3 years ago, T-Mobile bid on the majority of them and used it to upgrade its network.
Much lulz were had.
Here is a List of UMTS Networks. Pretty much all of Europe uses 2100.
I'll do more research as to WHY, but most carriers opt for certain frequencies because of hardware compatibility and cost effectiveness for when they were upgrading.
That link makes it appear that AT&T is worthless outside of NA, but that's untrue (AT&T has, for the most part coverage worldwide, or so I think...) so I'll do some more research on my lunch break.
Renarudo said:
T-Mobile 3G Upgrade
FCC cleared radio frequencies about 3 years ago, T-Mobile bid on the majority of them and used it to upgrade its network.
Much lulz were had.
Here is a List of UMTS Networks. Pretty much all of Europe uses 2100.
I'll do more research as to WHY, but most carriers opt for certain frequencies because of hardware compatibility and cost effectiveness for when they were upgrading.
That link makes it appear that AT&T is worthless outside of NA, but that's untrue (AT&T has, for the most part coverage worldwide, or so I think...) so I'll do some more research on my lunch break.
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ATT has some coverage (edge once again) everywhere, some places in canada and australia have 1900, but ATT for the most part is using a freq that's not very universal
The issue is the amplifier module.
I have the Rogers G1 running on AT&T 3G. The radio firmware/software is identicle to the T-Mobile/ADP1 phone.
They did a tear down of the G1's and they both use physically different amplifier part numbers. It's not a part from Qualcomm and has nothing to do with their chipsets. Their chipsets do indeed support AT&T's 3G frequencies, if paired with a compatible amplifier.
Now if someone tears down the Nexus One, and gets the part number for the amplifier, and that amplifier can do AT&T frequencies, it may just be an issue of hacking the radio somehow to enable it.
It's quite possible the amplifier on the Nexus One can handle AT&T 3G, but they didn't bother to "certify" it with the FCC because T-Mobile is te launch parter and AT&T is sucking Apples teet.
One can only wait and see. I'm betting it simple doesn't have the correct amplifier for AT&T.
There are amplifiers that work on all frequencies. Why they don't spend the extra dollar or whatever is beyond me. They are literally THAT cheap.
-James
jmacdonald801 said:
The issue is the amplifier module.
I have the Rogers G1 running on AT&T 3G. The radio firmware/software is identicle to the T-Mobile/ADP1 phone.
They did a tear down of the G1's and they both use physically different amplifier part numbers. It's not a part from Qualcomm and has nothing to do with their chipsets. Their chipsets do indeed support AT&T's 3G frequencies, if paired with a compatible amplifier.
Now if someone tears down the Nexus One, and gets the part number for the amplifier, and that amplifier can do AT&T frequencies, it may just be an issue of hacking the radio somehow to enable it.
It's quite possible the amplifier on the Nexus One can handle AT&T 3G, but they didn't bother to "certify" it with the FCC because T-Mobile is te launch parter and AT&T is sucking Apples teet.
One can only wait and see. I'm betting it simple doesn't have the correct amplifier for AT&T.
There are amplifiers that work on all frequencies. Why they don't spend the extra dollar or whatever is beyond me. They are literally THAT cheap.
-James
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Or sell two (or more) versions of the phone?
850/1900/2100
900/1900/2100
1700/2100
I would guess ... idiocy.
Even more idiotic ... phone manufacturers building phones with NAM 3G frequencies ... but not selling them.
It seems the Nexus One at least has the hardware to support AT&T 3G, see my post here.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=612950
-James
I was lamenting on my lack of foresight, getting a HD2 without researching the different bands that AT&T and T-Mobile use for 3G coverage, when just the other day...
NOTE: This was on a call to AT&T Support and the tech tells me:
a) Once unlocked from TMOUS, I should do a search on "AT&T APN's" and that if I search diligently, I will find APNs on AT&T's network that support HD2 3G Bands
b) AT&T techs, right in his data center have this working.
So I research a bit, and, apart form everyone and his brother professing to be 3G Band experts, and saying all I will see is Edge if I put the HD2 on AT&T. (Which is troublesome, since Wikipedia claims Edge is being dropped to facilitate more 3G bandwidth, so potentially I would lose even THAT).
Here is what official information I could find on the two:
The U.S. T-Mobile network predominately uses the GSM/GPRS/EDGE 1900 MHz frequency-band. T-Mobile's UMTS (3G) service is now active in over 30 major US cities
Further all official documentation states that AT&T uses:
* 850 MHz UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+ 3G
* 1900 MHz UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+ 3G
Finally look at my screenshot, taken from the GSM 3G toggle on the "Settings Tab" of Manila. I am running a NRG ROM (see signature) and I KNOW this is wishful thinking. This screen in particular is no doubt a function of the many devices NRG cooks for, but really, can anyone explain to me why this technically would NOT WORK (other than "just because", LOL)?
AT&T's CEO recently gave an interview and stated that the company's 3G service is being migrated to the 850MHz band with a target date of 2010:
http://www.intomobile.com/2009/02/24/att-3g-network-going-850mhz-nationwide-by-2010.html
For what it's worth, I think the Australian version of the HD2 might have a band that overlaps with US AT&T bands.
Whos gonna buy me one?
Mase_Mase said:
AT&T's CEO recently gave an interview and stated that the company's 3G service is being migrated to the 850MHz band with a target date of 2010:
http://www.intomobile.com/2009/02/24/att-3g-network-going-850mhz-nationwide-by-2010.html
For what it's worth, I think the Australian version of the HD2 might have a band that overlaps with US AT&T bands.
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Yes, I have been hearing the same. Problem is, I am not likely to fork out $$ for ANOTHER HD2. I just wanted to get the most out of the one I have. Thx!
if something like this WAS possible, it would have to be through something like a rogue apn setup on non-standard frequencies on ATT's network...but good luck finding anything like that, it wouldn't be able to remain a secret if it existed. also, if the hd2 had the ability to use those native frequencies, it would have had to have been certified as such by the FCC (which of course it wasn't).
To summarize, the only way to make it happen is if ATT did indeed somehow sneak in alternative-frequency apn's across it's entire network. Let us know how the search for those turns out
SmartAs$Phone said:
The U.S. T-Mobile network predominately uses the GSM/GPRS/EDGE 1900 MHz frequency-band. T-Mobile's UMTS (3G) service is now active in over 30 major US cities
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Sorry.
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/T-Mobile_USA
3G (UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+) service by T-Mobile exclusively uses the AWS 1700/2100 MHz frequency-band, making it incompatible with other existing 3G UMTS/HSPA networks already established in the United States.
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Its not physically possible. The hardware would have to be changed. They don't make radio chips with all the bands in it. I see this all the time, some random csr from whatever company says it can be done, but its just not true. Cell phones are designed and made for a specific company. They don't make universal radios and just turn off some bands. They don't exist, though I did read a few months back that Motorala was working on making one.
Although I understand the reason for your wishful thinking (and you did do some research which is always great), unfortunately it is just that and I'll gladly (though not happily) tell you why.
As you stated "U.S. T-Mobile network predominately uses the GSM/GPRS/EDGE 1900 MHz frequency-band" which is correct (and it also uses the 850 band for edge as well....though this is usually more 'roaming' aka you're using another companies cell tower because tmobile made a contract with them to allow you). You were also correct in stating that "Further all official documentation states that AT&T uses:
* 850 MHz UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+ 3G
* 1900 MHz UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+ 3G"
Also, ironcroth was also correct in quoting that "3G (UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+) service by T-Mobile exclusively uses the AWS 1700/2100 MHz frequency-band" which alone might not answer your question.
So where is the problem if both use 1900 and 850 bands? Well, the problem is that in the hardware, there is a difference between GSM/GPRS/EDGE and 3G/UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+. In other words, you can't use 1900 and 850 Edge frequency of the HD2's radio chip to get 3G (UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+); they are incompatible. This is why phone spects always list both seperatly and not just all the frequencies that it supports.
The above reason alone will make the TmoUSA HD2 incompatible with AT&T's 3G, but there's even more. When Tmobile says that it uses the (for example) 1900 frequency band for Edge, it doesn't actually mean that it uses 1900-1999 frequencies; instead it only uses a part of that spectrum (buying the full 100 frequency range would be expensive so they only buy what they need). Instead they only use maybe something like 1943-1978. And this range will likely not overlap with the frequncies that AT&T uses for their 3G (you can look up the exact values on the internet if you'd like). This second reason is why a european phone which supports 2100 band for 3g will not work on Tmobile's 3G 2100 frequncy (because they don't actually overlap).
Lastly (and I almost forgot to mention this), the screen shot you posted from your ROM can indeed be changed by a cook to whatever they want (though it won't actually make any difference since it all depends on the hardware). However, in this case, it's likely because htc actually made the error and never updated that screen and just used it from their previous builds from previous phones (this was stated on the forums before and I'm sure you'd be able to find it given some searching).
Hope this helps.
sirphunkee said:
To summarize, the only way to make it happen is if ATT did indeed somehow sneak in alternative-frequency apn's across it's entire network. Let us know how the search for those turns out
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Quite unlikely, the AWS bands are licensed to TMO, im sure TMO would notice real quick if there were unlicensed cell towers on the AWS band and the FCC would be slapping ATT with fines pretty quick. quite alot of work goes into setting up cell towers and the frequencies each cell segment runs on, If a rouge cell tower went up overlapping TMO's frequencies, all hell would likely break loose as far as customers being able to get usable service in the area.
also as far as the terminology APN's don't operate on a "frequency" an APN is more or less and authentication/proxy server on the data network after the data has transferred over the air interface.
Maybe the best way to think of it is similar to a cell tower being like a wifi access point, and the APN being like an authenticating router/firewall on a standard tcp/ip network. yeah i know its not quite the same, but that might be a simple way to visualize it for those familiar with networking
d0ug said:
Quite unlikely, the AWS bands are licensed to TMO, im sure TMO would notice real quick if there were unlicensed cell towers on the AWS band and the FCC would be slapping ATT with fines pretty quick. quite alot of work goes into setting up cell towers and the frequencies each cell segment runs on, If a rouge cell tower went up overlapping TMO's frequencies, all hell would likely break loose as far as customers being able to get usable service in the area.
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Exactly
d0ug said:
also as far as the terminology APN's don't operate on a "frequency" an APN is more or less and authentication/proxy server on the data network after the data has transferred over the air interface.
Maybe the best way to think of it is similar to a cell tower being like a wifi access point, and the APN being like an authenticating router/firewall on a standard tcp/ip network. yeah i know its not quite the same, but that might be a simple way to visualize it for those familiar with networking
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Right, very true...I should have said "apn's attached to alternative-frequency radios" Are you a Ham d0ug?
sirphunkee said:
Exactly
Right, very true...I should have said "apn's attached to alternative-frequency radios" Are you a Ham d0ug?
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Haha no, though i do have scanners and listen in on HAMs sometimes and have read up on the stuff somewhat. never gotten myself licensed.
On the subject of scanners, there isnt all that much interesting to listen too anymore. Here in tampa the police and sheriff are on analog trunked now, so its impossible to follow anything without a trunking scanner, and about the only other things you can listen to are cabbies, tow truck drivers, aircraft, and hams. I don't even know why scanners still have the 800mhz blocks anymore, analog amps cellular has been dead a few years now. you find lots of digital noise scanning around though, just about everything is transmitted digitally now. i've got an icom R20 that goes from 150khz all the way upto 3ghz
So why don't you put in an AT&T sim card with a 3G data plan and let us know if you get 3G on your HD2?
Svegetto said:
Although I understand the reason for your wishful thinking (and you did do some research which is always great), unfortunately it is just that and I'll gladly (though not happily) tell you why.
As you stated "U.S. T-Mobile network predominately uses the GSM/GPRS/EDGE 1900 MHz frequency-band" which is correct (and it also uses the 850 band for edge as well....though this is usually more 'roaming' aka you're using another companies cell tower because tmobile made a contract with them to allow you). You were also correct in stating that "Further all official documentation states that AT&T uses:
* 850 MHz UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+ 3G
* 1900 MHz UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+ 3G"
Also, ironcroth was also correct in quoting that "3G (UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+) service by T-Mobile exclusively uses the AWS 1700/2100 MHz frequency-band" which alone might not answer your question.
So where is the problem if both use 1900 and 850 bands? Well, the problem is that in the hardware, there is a difference between GSM/GPRS/EDGE and 3G/UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+. In other words, you can't use 1900 and 850 Edge frequency of the HD2's radio chip to get 3G (UMTS/HSPA/HSPA+); they are incompatible. This is why phone spects always list both seperatly and not just all the frequencies that it supports.
The above reason alone will make the TmoUSA HD2 incompatible with AT&T's 3G, but there's even more. When Tmobile says that it uses the (for example) 1900 frequency band for Edge, it doesn't actually mean that it uses 1900-1999 frequencies; instead it only uses a part of that spectrum (buying the full 100 frequency range would be expensive so they only buy what they need). Instead they only use maybe something like 1943-1978. And this range will likely not overlap with the frequncies that AT&T uses for their 3G (you can look up the exact values on the internet if you'd like). This second reason is why a european phone which supports 2100 band for 3g will not work on Tmobile's 3G 2100 frequncy (because they don't actually overlap).
Lastly (and I almost forgot to mention this), the screen shot you posted from your ROM can indeed be changed by a cook to whatever they want (though it won't actually make any difference since it all depends on the hardware). However, in this case, it's likely because htc actually made the error and never updated that screen and just used it from their previous builds from previous phones (this was stated on the forums before and I'm sure you'd be able to find it given some searching).
Hope this helps.
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Thank you very much. I myself had been wondering why I couldn't get an HTC Desire (honestly, pretty much the only phone I'd change my HD2 for unless a GSM version of the Supersonic becomes available) and have it work in the US at the 2100 frequency.
When I asked before, people would tell me that a phone would have to support both bands (1700/2100) to actually run on T-Mobile because one did HSDPA and the other did HSUPA, but that didn't make sense to me since all you need is a single band frequency to handle both D and U data streams.
Your explanation makes a lot more sense. It's a sad thing, though.
I remember reading somewhere that a chip manufacturer (motorola?) was working on a all frequency chip. I also read that the inherent problem with that would be the antenna.
It would be awesome to have an all band phone that world travelers could utilize. I love the HD2, I had upgraded from a long time use of a Treo 750. That phone was pretty close (quad GSM, triple umts). However when Tmo rolled out it's 3G on 1700 I was still stuck on edge with the 750.
Finally bit the bullet for an HD2, really like this phone. The 750 seems antique now heheh
moonchaser said:
I remember reading somewhere that a chip manufacturer (motorola?) was working on a all frequency chip. I also read that the inherent problem with that would be the antenna.
It would be awesome to have an all band phone that world travelers could utilize. I love the HD2, I had upgraded from a long time use of a Treo 750. That phone was pretty close (quad GSM, triple umts). However when Tmo rolled out it's 3G on 1700 I was still stuck on edge with the 750.
Finally bit the bullet for an HD2, really like this phone. The 750 seems antique now heheh
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Building a multi frequency chip isnt all that hard. software defined radios have existed for quite some time. basically a simple reprogramming allows it to xmit/rec on a different frequency. the trouble comes in the antenna design. antennas must be designed to work at specific frequencies to be the most efficient at transmitting and the most sensitive at receiving. trying to make a single antenna capable of xmit and rec anywhere in a bandwidth ranging from 700mhz upto say the 2500mhz that wimax uses, is going to make for quite a ****ty antenna at any frequency. When you see the piece of foil antennas in todays phones, they may just look like a simple piece of foil, but a lot of design goes into them to make them work well at the frequencies they need to work with.
I guarantee if you compared the internal antenna of the Euro, AUS and USA HD2 there are slight differences. Ill bet the radio chip in them is for the most part identical, there may be something modified on them to keep people from interchanging the radio roms between them though since that would invalidate any FCC or other country equivalent certification for that phone to operate
Its one thing to run a hacked rom, its something completely different to use an uncertified radio rom. Could cause all kinds of havoc with the cellular network, and get slapped with FCC fines if they could track down your trouble causing phone
d0ug said:
Building a multi frequency chip isnt all that hard. software defined radios have existed for quite some time. basically a simple reprogramming allows it to xmit/rec on a different frequency. the trouble comes in the antenna design. antennas must be designed to work at specific frequencies to be the most efficient at transmitting and the most sensitive at receiving. trying to make a single antenna capable of xmit and rec anywhere in a bandwidth ranging from 700mhz upto say the 2500mhz that wimax uses, is going to make for quite a ****ty antenna at any frequency. When you see the piece of foil antennas in todays phones, they may just look like a simple piece of foil, but a lot of design goes into them to make them work well at the frequencies they need to work with.
I guarantee if you compared the internal antenna of the Euro, AUS and USA HD2 there are slight differences. Ill bet the radio chip in them is for the most part identical, there may be something modified on them to keep people from interchanging the radio roms between them though since that would invalidate any FCC or other country equivalent certification for that phone to operate
Its one thing to run a hacked rom, its something completely different to use an uncertified radio rom. Could cause all kinds of havoc with the cellular network, and get slapped with FCC fines if they could track down your trouble causing phone
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Yeah that's on par with what I had read, you do well at explaining it.
Maybe some futuristic worldphone designer would opt for interchangeable external antenna's... I could live with that or maybe multiple builtin foils with a software driven switch between them and the radio... that would be neat. Not holding my breath though...
Interesting on the FCC, hadn't thought of that.
moonchaser said:
Yeah that's on par with what I had read, you do well at explaining it.
Maybe some futuristic worldphone designer would opt for interchangeable external antenna's... I could live with that or maybe multiple builtin foils with a software driven switch between them and the radio... that would be neat. Not holding my breath though...
Interesting on the FCC, hadn't thought of that.
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Thanks, I was just again looking at the spec differences between the euro and TMO HD2s and i really don't know why HTC did not also give the TMO HD2 850/900mhz HSPA/WCDMA to truly make it a world 3G phone. According to the tech specs over at HTC.com, TMO HD2 can already use 850/900mhz for GSM/GPRS/EDGE so the antenna is obviously quite capable of both. The only other frequency the TMO HD2 has to handle that the euro doesn't is 1700mhz
Part of me thinks it was probably done so the HD2 couldn't be used over on AT&T
d0ug said:
Thanks, I was just again looking at the spec differences between the euro and TMO HD2s and i really don't know why HTC did not also give the TMO HD2 850/900mhz HSPA/WCDMA to truly make it a world 3G phone. According to the tech specs over at HTC.com, TMO HD2 can already use 850/900mhz for GSM/GPRS/EDGE so the antenna is obviously quite capable of both. The only other frequency the TMO HD2 has to handle that the euro doesn't is 1700mhz
Part of me thinks it was probably done so the HD2 couldn't be used over on AT&T
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It had nothing to do with AT&T, it's because there's a difference between Edge and 3g radio frequency. More than that, there is no phone radio chip that supports all those frequencies and even more so, htc doesn't manufacture radio chips, they purchase them and put them in their phones....just like the majority of the hardware
Srs wow hd
How do you get SRS WOW HD downloaded onto the HTC HD2?
Svegetto said:
a european phone which supports 2100 band for 3g will not work on Tmobile's 3G 2100 frequncy
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I think this is incorrect -- the 2100 band support on the HD2 is in fact expressly intended for 3G compatibility in Europe/Asia, and people have reported being able to get 3G in Europe with their US HD2.
1700 == US-only 3G
2100 == Europe, Asia 3G
What's missing, I believe, might be 3G support in certain areas of places like Latin America which may follow US frequencies but don't have T-Mobile USA there to provide 1700 service... e.g., no 2100 and no 1700 either.
T-Mobile U.S. uses both AWS 1700mhz and 2100mhz for 3G. The 2100mhz band is used for transmit and 1700mhz is used for receive. Hence the incompatibility with other carriers phones that only operate in one spectrum.
Cheers.
~Jasecloud4
Hi!
I'm planning to visit the US and want to pick myself a DVP Unlocked for $499(16GB).
I spoke to a Dell rep who basically told me that when you buy a contract free DVP , it will still be locked to T-mobile.
I'm wondering if T-mobile will provide an unlock for it as I plan to use it in Sweden.
If they don't, has anyone tried the alternative unlock websites that exist on the internet? Are they a scam?
They are probably a scam or just a template for now. Someone will probably call T-Mobile for it when they get it, then post the code for us here
I'm in the same boat as you are and BTW already ordered the phone as I'm pretty sure I'll be able to unlock it.
Not sure if the websites are all scam, there are also posts here of people who actually used them in the past. But let's say that if we can get the unlock code for free from T-mobile it will be best.
From my understanding the unlock code is unique per handset based on the IMEI number, so don't expect anyone posting an unlock code. However, look on the T-mobile web site for their SIM FREE Policy.
When you buy the phone for full price, it makes you actually a "former customer" for T-Mobile as you do not have any contract with them anymore so they should have no problem giving you the unlock code. I also think that legally they need to do it.
Kotlicki said:
I'm in the same boat as you are and BTW already ordered the phone as I'm pretty sure I'll be able to unlock it.
Not sure if the websites are all scam, there are also posts here of people who actually used them in the past. But let's say that if we can get the unlock code for free from T-mobile it will be best.
From my understanding the unlock code is unique per handset based on the IMEI number, so don't expect anyone posting an unlock code. However, look on the T-mobile web site for their SIM FREE Policy.
When you buy the phone for full price, it makes you actually a "former customer" for T-Mobile as you do not have any contract with them anymore so they should have no problem giving you the unlock code. I also think that legally they need to do it.
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Please PM me once you get it, and tell me how it went.
Anyone else knows the shipping times for within the US? I have until Jan 11.
is the $499 version unlocked?
The 2 units I used, both were unlocked.
these were the 8 gig 449 ones
Canadian here: I spoke to T-Mobile yesterday. They are currently unable to unlock the phone, even if purchased outright. They suggested contacting Dell.
Called Dell america (dell canada is clueless) and they will not be giving unlock codes for a while at least.
expected release in canada is hopefully before the end of the 'holliday season' according to one of the reps.
I work for T-Mobile USA. They WILL NOT UNLOCK the device unless you have service for longer than 90 days. It is manadtory to have T-Mobile service before asking for an unlock , also you need to have the phone you want unlocked on T-Mobile service for that 90 days
eyan15 said:
The 2 units I used, both were unlocked.
these were the 8 gig 449 ones
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They were the ones sold in stores. The ones sold by Dell are locked.
michael871410 said:
I work for T-Mobile USA. They WILL NOT UNLOCK the device unless you have service for longer than 90 days. It is manadtory to have T-Mobile service before asking for an unlock , also you need to have the phone you want unlocked on T-Mobile service for that 90 days
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Since you work for T-Mobile, are you aware of the issues with activating this phone through the Dell site? Is T-Mobile acknowledging that the problem is on its end, or is it a problem on Dell's side?
What does it matter if you have the unlock code or not? The phone only has T-mobile radio bands for UMTS.
I think it has 2100 (for Europe/Asia) also.
tai4de2 said:
I think it has 2100 (for Europe/Asia) also.
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I don't believe that will work as the 2100 radio is set up for AWS.
American AWS UMTS phone radios are set up to transmit signal in "2100" (2110-2155)Mhz range and receive signal in the "1700" (1710-1755)MHz range.
While EU UMTS "2100" phone radios are set up to receive signal in "2100"(2110-2170)Mhz, and transmit signal in "1900" (1920-1980)MHz range.
Actually since the Venue Pro has UMTS 900 support that should indicate the unit has been configured for at least some Asia and European UMTS support. UMTS 900 is not a American UMTS band.
sureloch said:
I don't believe that will work as the 2100 radio is set up for AWS.
American AWS UMTS phone radios are set up to transmit signal in "2100" (2110-2155)Mhz range and receive signal in the "1700" (1710-1755)MHz range.
While EU UMTS "2100" phone radios are set up to receive signal in "2100"(2110-2170)Mhz, and transmit signal in "1900" (1920-1980)MHz range.
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But according to Lionel's blog post stated that the phone spec
Bands/Mode: UMTS 900/1700/2100/AWS
Would it means that is a dual band UMTS support for AWS and Band I 2100Mhz?
My guessing only...
Will wait til Jan 11th and buy it from either Clove or Expansys.
Although I could have saved a couple of dollars on buying it in the us
A couple of dollars? The 8GB DVP is $450 in the US and £440 in The UK, that's a massive difference. Someone will figure out how to unlock it I'm sure.
Peew971 said:
A couple of dollars? The 8GB DVP is $450 in the US and £440 in The UK, that's a massive difference. Someone will figure out how to unlock it I'm sure.
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Wow - that's a massive difference . Hope Orange UK stock it for my upgrade then !
sureloch said:
I don't believe that will work as the 2100 radio is set up for AWS.
American AWS UMTS phone radios are set up to transmit signal in "2100" (2110-2155)Mhz range and receive signal in the "1700" (1710-1755)MHz range.
While EU UMTS "2100" phone radios are set up to receive signal in "2100"(2110-2170)Mhz, and transmit signal in "1900" (1920-1980)MHz range.
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You have got it backwards. Both AWS and EU 2100 UMTS use 2100 MHz for download; they just use different frequencies for upload. See the table here: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/UMTS_frequency_bands
The more recent posts are correct. The facts are these:
1. When a phone's specs list "UMTS xxxx" (850, 900, 1700, 1900, 2100, etc.) it generally isn't a listing of the exact frequecies, but rather the 3G "bands" that are supported. Thus a European phone that lists "UMTS 900/2100" actually supports 3G downloads in the 1920-1980 MHz range, since that is part of Band I or "UMTS 2100".
2. The WHOLE POINT of AWS in North America is to make it super-easy for manufacturers to support the European and Asian UMTS 2100, by using largely overlapping download frequencies. PhoneScoop has a good article on this: http://www.phonescoop.com/articles/article.php?a=99&p=1493. For this reason, you will rarely or never see an AWS phone that doesn't also support 3G in Europe.
3. Even if surelock and others were correct in their mistaken info that AWS transmits on 2100, that wouldn't make it impossible to support both. Many "3G world phones" for AT&T and Rogers support UMTS 850/1900/2100. 1900 is the PCS band, and it receives on 1930-1990, while Band I (or 2100) transmits on 1920-1980, which overlaps. These phones have radios that can switch between transmitting and receiving on overlapping frequencies. You'll just rarely see these two types of networks operating on the same continent.
In closing:
The Dell Venue Pro supports one North American 3G band (UMTS 1700 or "AWS") and two European/Asian 3G bands (UMTS 900 and UMTS 2100).
Thank you for clarifying. As far as I know all the releases WP7 can be unlocked one way or another so it will only be a matter of time until we can unlock the DVP. A Dell Venue Pro 16GB bought in the US would be over £50 cheaper to get than a 8GB one bought in the UK. If you have means of importing one that's a no brainer.