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Hi all,
Would anyone who have used both platforms tell me the UX on both? I am surely a nokia fan and a maemo fan more so..(pls dont start flaming on this point.. i am sure many of u ppl wud be from a nokia background and honestly its the only brand around here that used to and still gets prompt service and repairs) Just that its reaching the end of the life cycle is giving me worries.
I am new to the android experience and have gone thru various forums, blogs and asked the same question there too... before i make a final decision, i though i would ask the developers community of android too...the reason i am posting in the samsung galaxy s forum is coz if i am getting an android it would be this one, none of the other phones impress me as this does...
So, what do you ppl think? Ive seen the galaxy s interface personally and wasnt able to see a task manager/switcher as traditional OS built phones have(symbian ones if u may... ) Thats one big turn down for me.
The plus points ive noticed in galaxy s are :-
1. Screen Quality...
2. Updates all the time... (Gingerbread.... )
3. Better Hardware... (best on any mobile phone sold in india)
4. Battery Life ( maybe arguable as some ppl still think both kinda do the same..)
5. Apps apps apps.... everywhere.....(also all the apps that i thought were for symbian territory are getting android versions which means its gonna be huge in later future even more than how it is now... opera mobile, skyfire...)
6. HD
The downs (when compared with maemo and against my convenience) that ive noticed are :-
1. No real multitasking... (user selects what to do.. which application to close and when...)
2. Lack of task switcher/manager as i have mentioned...
3. No camera cover or flash
4. Glossy finish (big turn down..)
Among this the multitasking part is ma biggest let down... I wish there was some way around it...
So... based on what i mentioned what would be your suggestions?
Mods can move/delete this thread if found inappropriate. As i mentioned, i posted in Galaxy S thread coz i wanted to know specifically about this device.. All samsung lovers... Ive got nothing against u.. just expressing my findings and opinions which can be corrected by anyone if found wrong... Pls be gentle..... Folks who have used both platforms are welcome to share their views....
Hey man. I've spent many years supporting and buying strictly Nokia devices, but over the years I realized I was paying top of the line prices for phones that simply fell short.
My most recent phone was the e51 which I got to replace a defective e66.
Android has task switching, task managers, and even different ways of running apps (system processes and general). The way to access task switching is to long press on the hardware home button. At least that's the case on the i9000m.
There are many tools on the market which let you kill even the processes hidden from this general view.
Now as for your choice of phone. I personally love the SGS, but a lot of people have problems with it. I left Nokia after a decade due to their terrible customer service in north america, and due to the state of the symbian OS.
The SGS has some issues you may be unaware if though. The GPS is a real problem, and wile it may not affect every unit, compared top Nokia's (and other) GPS units it falls short. The other thing are the updates. So far Samsung has been lagging behind other companies with updates, and there's no guarantee of gingerbread ever coming to the SGS, partly sure to the limited RAM. They've also made some questionable choices, like RFS and TouchWiz, though the latter isn't the worst among androids.
All in all I love this phone. If this post seems critical it's only to bring issues to your attention. You can assume that anything I didn't mention is great with this phone. Hope that helped.
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
lithicus said:
Hey man. I've spent many years supporting and buying strictly Nokia devices, but over the years I realized I was paying top of the line prices for phones that simply fell short.
My most recent phone was the e51 which I got to replace a defective e66.
Android has task switching, task managers, and even different ways of running apps (system processes and general). The way to access task switching is to long press on the hardware home button. At least that's the case on the i9000m.
There are many tools on the market which let you kill even the processes hidden from this general view.
Now as for your choice of phone. I personally love the SGS, but a lot of people have problems with it. I left Nokia after a decade due to their terrible customer service in north america, and due to the state of the symbian OS.
The SGS has some issues you may be unaware if though. The GPS is a real problem, and wile it may not affect every unit, compared top Nokia's (and other) GPS units it falls short. The other thing are the updates. So far Samsung has been lagging behind other companies with updates, and there's no guarantee of gingerbread ever coming to the SGS, partly sure to the limited RAM. They've also made some questionable choices, like RFS and TouchWiz, though the latter isn't the worst among androids.
All in all I love this phone. If this post seems critical it's only to bring issues to your attention. You can assume that anything I didn't mention is great with this phone. Hope that helped.
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for ur reply... Does that mean holding the home button brings up a list of applications from which u can easily select to switch between various ones? i know multitasking doesnt work as it does on nokia... But is there a way to switch and maybe close the apps from the long press option??
Also.. TouchWize is the UI right? But i am not sure what RFS is...
The SGS does true multitasking. It will run multiple apps and will close the ones that are least used if it needs memory or processor power automatically so yes, you can switch between live apps.
That said I am a long term Communicator user and if Nokia had assured me of a updated replacement I would still be there. Don't get me wrong I love my SGS but I am a business user and the E90 was a business focussed smart phone. Given the finance to get one I would be very tempted to go to the E7 or N9 when they are released. The N9 is rumoured to be running Maemo.
TouchWiz is the modified UI, while RFS is the file system. The latter is the cause of most of the lag people complain about, while the former is likely the cause of the remaining slowdown.
And as has been said, android does true multitasking. It's a great phone experience, as good as anything I ever got from the Nokia line of e# devices, though I do miss having hardware buttons for blind dialing (that's what you lose with any touchscreen phone)
Oh and sorry about the tons of typos in the previous post.
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
Android multitasking works differently. It's not a simple system that simply leaves an app running as you go to another. Each app is programmed how to react to different events, they can save their state so even if they are shut down due to low memory they will return to their previous state when opened.
If they need to do something in the background they will launch a service so that the whole program isn't required to stay in memory, and it will launch when required.
Not too easy to explain here, but it is true multitasking. It's just more controlled and the OS can manage it for you, no need to worry about closing the program yourself unless it's badly made junk.
As for the crappy RFS filesystem that causes lag, there's several fixes for that in the development section that make the phone blazing fast
touchwizz is very quick when rfs is "fixed" (read: gone/replaced )
the gps issues aren't big deal anymore in froyo at least for me
there's key differences between maemo and android which aren't samsung or sgs related.
For example Android is using a Linux kernel yes, but most of the system is not very "Linux like" per se. yo'uve got some cripple busybox by default at best, and most apps run as separate users in java sandboxes (some are native)
Maemo is a lot more like a "real Linux" and a lot less java
Still, I prefer the Android devices at the moment, mostly more polished/powerfull
The lack of camera cover on the SGS has never been an issue to anyone I think, the lack of flash may or may not be, it isnt for me, it is for some.
The finish is a matter of taste, the phone is very very light, and rather strong/well built actually. Nokias are heavier, and also well built, and might be more appealing to many.
Personally I had a Nokia before too and I like how I don't really feel the sgs in my pocket in comparison.
I own a Nokia N900 and a Samsung Galaxy S.
It's true, Android has a task switcher (long press home button). But there's no android device at the moment that has real 'visual' multitasking like the N900.
You can watch a video, switch to the internet and load a webpage. when you press the multitask button on the N900, it shows little windows where you still can see the video running or the webpage loading. very impressing.
one point to mention is the hardware. Camera and speaker of the N900 are better in my opinion.
on the other hand, the SGS has the android market and the great screen.
after 4 months using both devices, I'll stick with the SGS.
maemo/meego is surely a good OS that gives you all freedom of a linux system (root/shell access out of the box) but the Nokia support is even worse than samsung at the moment.
the SGS is a very good device in my opinion and I can do everything I could do on the N900. I'm only missing the hardware keyboard at times...
Tehpriest said:
The SGS does true multitasking. It will run multiple apps and will close the ones that are least used if it needs memory or processor power automatically so yes, you can switch between live apps.
That said I am a long term Communicator user and if Nokia had assured me of a updated replacement I would still be there. Don't get me wrong I love my SGS but I am a business user and the E90 was a business focussed smart phone. Given the finance to get one I would be very tempted to go to the E7 or N9 when they are released. The N9 is rumoured to be running Maemo.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
lithicus said:
TouchWiz is the modified UI, while RFS is the file system. The latter is the cause of most of the lag people complain about, while the former is likely the cause of the remaining slowdown.
And as has been said, android does true multitasking. It's a great phone experience, as good as anything I ever got from the Nokia line of e# devices, though I do miss having hardware buttons for blind dialing (that's what you lose with any touchscreen phone)
Oh and sorry about the tons of typos in the previous post.
Sent from my GT-I9000M using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
bilboa1 said:
touchwizz is very quick when rfs is "fixed" (read: gone/replaced )
the gps issues aren't big deal anymore in froyo at least for me
there's key differences between maemo and android which aren't samsung or sgs related.
For example Android is using a Linux kernel yes, but most of the system is not very "Linux like" per se. yo'uve got some cripple busybox by default at best, and most apps run as separate users in java sandboxes (some are native)
Maemo is a lot more like a "real Linux" and a lot less java
Still, I prefer the Android devices at the moment, mostly more polished/powerfull
The lack of camera cover on the SGS has never been an issue to anyone I think, the lack of flash may or may not be, it isnt for me, it is for some.
The finish is a matter of taste, the phone is very very light, and rather strong/well built actually. Nokias are heavier, and also well built, and might be more appealing to many.
Personally I had a Nokia before too and I like how I don't really feel the sgs in my pocket in comparison.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
fboneol said:
I own a Nokia N900 and a Samsung Galaxy S.
It's true, Android has a task switcher (long press home button). But there's no android device at the moment that has real 'visual' multitasking like the N900.
You can watch a video, switch to the internet and load a webpage. when you press the multitask button on the N900, it shows little windows where you still can see the video running or the webpage loading. very impressing.
one point to mention is the hardware. Camera and speaker of the N900 are better in my opinion.
on the other hand, the SGS has the android market and the great screen.
after 4 months using both devices, I'll stick with the SGS.
maemo/meego is surely a good OS that gives you all freedom of a linux system (root/shell access out of the box) but the Nokia support is even worse than samsung at the moment.
the SGS is a very good device in my opinion and I can do everything I could do on the N900. I'm only missing the hardware keyboard at times...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks guys... So i guess other than the hardware QWERTY everything else is good?
@fboneol
I dont mind not getting previews of my apps or seeing them run in the background as long it would continue working in the background.. that it does. right??
Thanks guys once again.... uve been a real help..
i have both phones
to be honest, i love sgs more (though it's bricked at the moment!) because is light, with a great screen and android looks better and there are so many apps to choose, etc
but, i need sip and sip and im are so integrated to the sistem and so easy to use. it's strange that on sgs, a google phone, you cannot do google talk voice and video, well you can do that on nokia. i usually have multiple service runnings ... no problem
sipdroid, or other android apps, are so much limited
on n900, i can email any file easily from the default email program ... on sgs i tried lots of shiny email apps ... just to email pictures and video (maybe there is a way to hack that, but ...)
...
in the end: sgs is more fun, but n900 is more eficient ...
fboneol said:
I own a Nokia N900 and a Samsung Galaxy S.
It's true, Android has a task switcher (long press home button). But there's no android device at the moment that has real 'visual' multitasking like the N900.
You can watch a video, switch to the internet and load a webpage. when you press the multitask button on the N900, it shows little windows where you still can see the video running or the webpage loading. very impressing.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
@fboneol ... how that you see the video playing in multitask?
on mine; if i switch the app, the video pauses ... audio, yes ... but video ... no!
its true sipdroid is not as good as nokia stuff but it works
i liked the nokia integration more ofc but the polish of the rest and the speed etc makes it up for it
Isn't Maemo dead? From what I gather all of Nokia's effort are in Meego or whatever it is.
bilboa1 said:
its true sipdroid is not as good as nokia stuff but it works
i liked the nokia integration more ofc but the polish of the rest and the speed etc makes it up for it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maemo has better sip, yep, but also google voice and video ... now skype works on android too
i'm not from us; but i have an activated voice account ... i transfer all calls to google talk ... so i get all the voice functionality on nokia
on the google phone ... talk has no voice and the google voice app is not working cause i don't have an us no
meego /maemo same thing except meego for nokia phone isn't really out there. They share a lot. Could have been called Maemo 7 or Moblin but instead they made a new name to unite both, so meego has quite some maemo code.
on the sgs video calls are supported and compatible with nokias also, and integrated the way i would expect it (unlike SIP)
About SIP i'm talking about using the standards, not Skype or GVoice. I'm not using GVoice or Skype. Nokia has standard SIP support, android a few apps doing it (but they're not as well integrated). Small but significant difference.
http://www.androidcentral.com/gingerbread-brings-ext4-file-system-new-devices
Hopefully if we get some Gingerbread ROM action they utilize the ext4 option.
"In an almost overlooked note on the Android Developers Blog, Tim Bray lets us know that starting with the Nexus S and Gingerbread, some Android devices will be moving from the YAFFS file system to the ext4 file system. This is going to bring a big boost in input and output file operations, and explains some of the amazing speed improvements we're already seeing on the Nexus S.
Two things to mention here -- the increase in speed comes with a cost, and not all current (or new) devices will see this change. The lifespan of the media will be reduced by using the ext4 file system, but modern solid state memory should still last for quite a few years, so I don't see a serious problem with it. The other issue is which phones will see this boost. I've a gut feeling that this is reserved for only new devices with big internal memory space, like the Nexus S, that have a controller that can use it. I wouldn't count on your current phone to get this change -- at least officially -- but hopefully manufacturers will make sure their new devices meet the needed specs."
Yep, I think we will be stuck with sammy's file system.
To all in this forum. So many have had complaints about so many things to put that statement in perspective Here is a brief list:
Graying pixels (triangles)
Black not true
Color wash out
Color Rendering issues
Emmc Bug
S-Pen Issues
Tablet Mode jacked
Battery Drain Issues
These are the common ones, but you get the idea. What we as moderators really Hate is ALL THE COMPLAINING you throw at the following people......ChainFire, SuperCurio, Flappjaxx, Dagr8, M3dd0g, Sixstringsg, Dr Ketan, NeoBuddy, CM Team, AokpTeam, Gerret, xplodwild, Eybee1970....any all the others I cannot think of right now...(let me know who I missed and Ill add)
The majority of these issues are SAMSUNG hardware issues, a few are not. Stop Telling the Devs about these issues TELL SAMSUNG.......complain to them...and here's how...
The Idea:
I am going to try this and hopefully get everyone's support and contributions. What I am proposing is to post the Samsung issues here in a post and a brief description of what it is and what it is not doing.
Then, I will merge the real Samsung related issues into the 1st and 2nd post so they are itemized clearly. After a few days....
THIS IS THE IMPORTANT PART.... I then want all of you in this forum to Tweet the link to this thread to @Samsungmobile..... stating fix these issues Now, or we look to buy something else than Samsung.....
This works, my friend S15274N started #neveragain Samsung when they did not provide timely updates (2.1 to 2.2)... we got their ear. Samsung does not bad press on this Unit especially because they are going to release TMO version on 7-11-12....... So let's kick'em now and get some of their engineers to help us instead of beating on our dev's.
To Recap:
1. Post what you believe to be Samsung hardware/software issues
2. We will merge these into a cohesive/concise list
3. We barrage them with complaint tweets with the link to this thread.
Here is the link to this Thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=27812352#post27812352
Let's do this it's worth a try and we can direct our frustration towards the correct culprits Samsung.
Thanks, Oka1
The List
Known Bugs/Problems
1. Emmc Bug
2. Color Rendering issues
..........A-Banding in Video recording/playback
..........B-Black clipping in videos
..........C-
3. Post Source code for ICS when you release ICS.
4. Provide a "Known and Resolved" bug list that you are presently aware of
5. Battery overheating
6. Hang and FC on Low DPI settings
7. MMS would not send/receive if Data Packet is not enabled. Previously in GB (Galaxy Note only) it was able to do so. I really hope that Samsung fix this issue for all its Android phones.
8. Samsung changed between GB and ICS raised kernel resume time from 650ms to 1000ms - just for the kernel to resume
Desired List:
1. Touch screen adjustment
2. Improve camera software too much banding in lowlight
for now, emmc bug must be the TOP PRIORITY..
all the other issues won't make your phone unusable and cost you motherboard replacement..
+1
Awesome a n7000 user union.
UNITE!
Missing traceability with partial wakelocks and what's really draining your battery. Statistics in native app are tainted/incomplete plus offer no real value in analyzing. Its like a Dilbert comic dashboard, useless.
Varying screen quality, maybe due to drivers : the banding issues with movies
Slow update speed. Samsung kept delaying ICS
ICS not as intended implemented, slow, battery inefficient and has lags.
No low dpi support on native launchers
Low Volume issues on speaker and ringer
Missing exchange contact search functionality
Missing control for apps permissions, like pdroid and lbe
Missing firewall
Missing touchscreen sensitivity setting
Crap update policy. Just make one good rom and not 50+ crap ones per region, per carrier. This will increase update speed, quality too
Missing wipe dalvik cache option
Sent from my GT-N7000 using Tapatalk 2
The whole idea of choosing Android (in particular Galaxy Series) over iPhone was the ability and ease of flashing firmwares and exploring new horizons. However the EMMC bug is limiting this very activity. Moreover we paid for the premium devices such as Note and millions of these have be sold all over. The EMMC fix should certainly be on TOP most priority. Hope Samsung will be considerate enough to consider this request. Else we all will be forced to re-evaluate our faith in SAMSUNG.
PS:
It hurts to know that google was aware of EMMC issues since 2008 and still SAMSUNG planned to go ahead with faulty chip. Surely Samsung does owe an explanation in-case they fail to find a fix in time!!!
I am in...the Hard brick bug is my priority for now....
LET'S MAKE SOME NOISE...
send this thread to samsung
we have to do something now, enough is enough.
1. Color Rendering, black greying out, black clippings..its been months and nothing done about it.
2. Battery Drain for what?!
It was marketed for its screen and HD experience..and the users are not experiencing that because of the above crap!
3. AND Yeah!! Do us a favor and release updates that are the same and that do not literally vary from one another! QUALITY CHECK!!!
YOU HEAR US SAMSUNG!!!
black clipping issue should be related to the firmware, samsung should release a hotfix for it asap.
http://innovator.samsungmobile.com/bbs/discussion/view.do?boardId=1132&boardName=AndroidBoard&messageId=155754&messageNumber=&messageCategoryId=4&startId=zzzzz~&startPage=1&curPage=1&rowsPerPage=10&searchType=TITLE&searchText=&searchDays=0&searchTitleFlag=false&searchContentsFlag=false&searchRegisterNicknameFlag=false&lastPageFlag=&categoryId=800&parentCategoryId=4&platformId=1&selectOrder=REGISTER_DATE&selectOrderDirection=DESC&searchParameters=%2Fbbs%2Fdiscussion%2Fthread.list.do%3FlistLines%3D10|searchType%3Dtitle|curPage%3D2|selectOrder%3DREGISTER_DATE|selectOrderDirection%3DDESC|messageCategoryId%3D4|&nacode=&listLines=10&searchTextForm=&searchTypeForm=TITLE
Please add to your list the Deep Sleep Problem.
My Note breaks deep sleep pretty much at will. That MUST get fixed.
Thank you for your initiative. It empowers all of us.
The biggest issue I have right now with the phone is the EMMC bug. This needs fixing ASAP.
The was my first Samsung and at the rate Samsung are going, then it's going to be my last !
Black clipping in videos is the biggest issue for me, having to use a app to adjust the contrast thus losing true blacks is not good.
I also believe there is an issue with how flash player works in stock ICS ROMs, Very jerky performance in browser, I don't think it is 100% Adobes fault as I have friends with other devices (Eg HTC Sensation) running ICS 4.0.3 stock ROMs and their playback is silky smooth.
Sent by Galaxy Note
Hallelujah. The best thread I've seen yet and here is my list:
Post ICS upgrade
1. Phone would randomly re-boot.
2. phone would lock up and not respond. Battery removal necessary to re-boot.#
3. eMMc Identified as being faulty.
4. Video recording would stutter at the beginning of each clip.
5. Video playback would frequently fail.
6. Pink Dot on Camera. YES IT IS A BLOODY FAULT. AND YES I DO KNOW HOW TO OPERATE A CAMERA.
7. Google Maps with Navigation would hang and screen would freeze and flicker.
8. Other Apps from Google Play store, certified as compatible with the GSN would hang, freeze, or otherwise cause re-boot.
9. Phone would sometimes get hot, very hot.
10. degraded sound quality, both recorded and playback.
I called Samsung and was not in the slightest bit re-assured by what the agent told me. They sent a plastic pouch with a tiny square of bubble wrap to send it to a service centre. That is not my idea of suitable packaging to protect MY device, and no, I'm not going to patch up their own shoddy performance with my own materials. I have sent my Galaxy Note back to the retailer for a full refund as it is now no longer fit for the purpose.
I would recommend anyone that has a defective device, is to follow the instruction manual to the letter. Make sure your apps are compliant fro the Goggle Play store. If after that, it is still defective, send it back to the point of sale for a full refund, do not accept a replacement, do not accept anything other than your money back. I know this is a PITA BUT, unless Samsung get hurt in the pocket and some truthfulness in the headlines in the press and on the Internet, nothing will get done. Yes I know living without a phone can be a pain, but we ca all live without the 'Note for a while. Do what I have done, get a crappy clam phone from Tesco for a tenner, it gets me by.
You might ask why I'm so militant, well its for two reasons. 1. It's in my genes. 2. I paid top dollar for a flagship product that is not fit for the purpose.
As the OP said, don't hit the Devs. They didn't write the crappy code that doesn't work, they don't work for Samsung either. They didn't instigate the crappy quality control that seems apparent in Samsungs factories, and that of their suppliers. What they do is write apps for you and me, they write code to 'try' and give you an alternative android experience, they try to fix what Samsung should be fixing. They do this all for free. I like free, and I like the Devs. Samsung should stop paying its own coders, and give all that money to xda developers. Maybe then we would have a quality product.
Things you can do to help. Appart from sending your device back to your retailer for your money back (some cant do this I know, but those that can, do it). Tweet epic fail on twitter, do the same on face book and every other social networking site you have. make sure its addressed and or seen by Samsung. It will hurt, particularly when google starts to pick it up in the search engine.
---------- Post added at 10:49 AM ---------- Previous post was at 10:11 AM ----------
oka1, you have a private message.
also, add to my list above: touch screen sensitivity erratic.
thanks
bigstarrynight said:
1. Phone would randomly re-boot.
2. phone would lock up and not respond. Battery removal necessary to re-boot.#
3. eMMc Identified as being faulty.
4. Video recording would stutter at the beginning of each clip.
5. Video playback would frequently fail.
6. Pink Dot on Camera. YES IT IS A BLOODY FAULT. AND YES I DO KNOW HOW TO OPERATE A CAMERA.
7. Google Maps with Navigation would hang and screen would freeze and flicker.
8. Other Apps from Google Play store, certified as compatible with the GSN would hang, freeze, or otherwise cause re-boot.
9. Phone would sometimes get hot, very hot.
10. degraded sound quality, both recorded and playback.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Strange, but I don't have any of this points on my ICS rom...
anonymous572 said:
Strange, but I don't have any of this points on my ICS rom...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really. Its all down to quality control, programming and who made the device components. You will see lots of satisfied guys with fully functioning devices, BUT, there are an awful lot like me in the same boat. BTW I don't root or use anything not served up by Samsung, that way I protect my warranty and leaves no room for manoeuvre for the retailer or Samsung.
Top of my list is:
1 Black clipping in videos
Its just NOT acceptable that a phone in this price range and with this specs. cannot play (random) video without this terrible artifacts.
It doesnt deliver what is promised. (in the commercials )
Even my 3 jear old HTC plays video a lot better.
If its not fixed in the near future i think i will go for a refund because i really feel cheated by samsung because of this problem and their way of (not) supporting it.
2 EMMC bug.
3 the overall way that samsung deals with this bugs and the people/customers who report them.
Please step up samsung!
i can wait for a stable ics.
BUT BLACK CLIPPING come on samsung... please fix it...its damn ugly...people look at this phone as if its some heavenly artifact..thank God i dont let em watch dark videos, they will just scoff at me saying ' 30,000 bucks for this?'..i'm sorta asking myself that question now...it's advertised as if it has the best screen on the market and yet it shows greys so badly and pictures taken in the dark are so ugly with purple blotches..premium smartphone? dont think so!!
Priority by number:
1- eMMC bug, known for a long time and can be solutioned if samsung wants to....
2- Black clipping, can get rid of it by not seeing vids or black images.......
3- Battery drain, it's impossible to have to walk with a charger in our pockets with average use. If you use data transfer all day you can't use it for a day (10H)
4- Updates from samsung are a joke, touchwizz may be a great launcher but not with ICS. Tanks for those who developed others..
5- Total lack of interest by samsung: 7 million sold with about 70% of those with a high possibilty to be returned and get a new MB?? That's a risk !!!!! No solution, no excuse, no explanation, nothing from samsung.......
Oh well i really like my note, bought it for a reason and it does what i want but there are too many bugs/problems with it to be a fully functional device. What does samsung about it??? Release SGSIII.......... yeah right nice solution.
Had a samsung before and gave me a lot of problems, i know i shouldn't have gone back but..........let's try to solve this.
becosemsaida
add Entropy to the list of people who gets a lot of complains from users..
anyway, i suggest that the emmc or wiping bug should be put as the top priority so that when samsung or anyone from their team visits the thread, the first thing they will notice is the said bug... a bold/red text maybe? and put some sticky magic to this thread?
i don't know if its just me but i only care about the bug that kills our devices.. i can live with the other issues...
im going to tweet this thread everyday.... hoping for fast actions from samsung... its the first time i got so disappointed with sammy..
here is a shortened url for tweeting http://goo.gl/I3q7q
I have been somewhat following the whole Phonebloks and ARA scene, participating in the Dscout missions, and generally have to say that there is a lot of buzz and hype with very little meat behind it. The general populace is thinking legos, colors, fancy shmancy materials, and other appearance related nonsense. There seems to be very little technical content, and the majority of the crowd seems to be lured by key words such as "eco", "reusable", "repairable", "customizable" and so on.
Certainly, in terms of driving sales, this is good attention, something Motorola needs.
The downside, however, seems to be that people do not understand how things work, have no patience for it, and want things to "just work."
I highly doubt that this will be something that is user friendly out of the box.
The biggest misconception seems to be that you will be able to build anything you want out of this. If this idea is not curbed, this project will fail. People will become disappointed. Already they seem to think that they can have an espresso maker and a telescope added to the thing.
On top of it all, Motorola has a track record of taking good ideas and executing them poorly. Think Atrix lapdock.
So what is the clear mission of this project?
Ease of repair? That can already be done using current production methods. Look at the iPhone vs Galaxy series in terms of screen replacement. Its night and day.
Reusing parts? What could you reuse from an iPhone 4 when building a 5s? The headphone jack? Batteries die, radios, memory, sensors, processors, become old news by the time they hit the assembly line, and screens evolve at a fast pace.
There is no mention of a core device with expansion bays, the project seems to suggest you could swap all basic components on the fly. This is nonsense. Is it really worth taking steps back to make separate little bricks for Bluetooth, Wifi, NFC, GSM radio, etc., when current production methods can squeeze these into a single system-on-chip design at a fraction of the cost?
Imagine for a minute if Googorola took the Moto X approach to hardware: You log into your Motomaker account, and at checkout you pick your options. 3 choices of screen size, 3 choices of processors, 3 choices of storage capacity, an 8, 13, or 16 Mpix camera, 3 different battery capacities, cdma, gsm, or global radio, etc., then once you select your hardware, you customize the case colors, and you're done.
I know this rant is way into the TL;DR territory, but there are other factors to consider, perhaps profitability being paramount. Open source phone, with open source modules, etc. How will Motorola make $ on this? How long till knock off modules hit the market? What is the pricing scheme, etc.
I would love to get a serious discussion going, touching on some of the things I brought up.
Sent from my Nexus 5 using xda app-developers app
I wouldn't say they're doomed from the start but their social network app and stuff seems pretty gimmicky to me. I definitely think that modular phones are in the future but they need to spend more time talking about the actual hardware and open sourcing drivers and stuff instead of their weird Instagram clone in my opinion. I'm still staying optimistic if they don't do it someone else will.
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Nice idea, but people here at xda would have a nightmare with such a thing, meaning rom development for every and each component combination.......
Lets ask ourselves, when would it be appropriate or papamount to upgrade a hardware component of any of our phones now? The reasoning now is more like, 'it would be cool if we could'. I cant think of any necessary reason now for needing to change harware unless it needs repair. I believe necessity should be a starting point for this whole concept. Necessity often drives truly good design.
I personally think that this would be good because of the fact that technology advances at such a rapid pace that being able to upgrade your components when a better version comes out would be good. Obviously there would be some compatibility issues between some parts that would be unavoidable. It would be more for the person who wants the high end device. Take me for example, I have the S4 and I love it but next year when the S5 comes out it wouldn't be the latest and greatest and I can't upgrade for two years. I could love a Moto X but I don't wanna pay the off contract price for it. So I think this is the only time it would be good and efficient, not a huge game changer but a slight game changer.
Also about the knock off or cheap parts, if they have the drivers and protocols open source than it shouldn't be to big of an issue, not anymore than buying a knock off replacement screen. Still something to look out for when buying modules.
I think that the idea from Phoneblocks or Ara are really good but I think that the project will prospere
Project Ara.
Being a modular design, brings complications, but with those complications comes new opportunities in the hardware section as well as the software side of the development.
The metric is quite valid and tangible, even more so today, wth the manufacturing techniques available, this idea actually makes far more sense than feeding the giant a steady diet of the same old thing.
You save money if all you require is a modified version of the RF section, you install that block.
The same goes for the remainder of the phone, easy upgrading, no downtime, and lower overall cost for the entire market, not to mention the lowering of landfill garbage from dumped devices that could not be upgraded.
The engineering end of this is wonderful, I wish it arrived years ago. A 'Lego-Phone' you build and upgrade as you need to, no more buying an aircraft carrier, when all you require is a shuttle.
We can finally drive the market, provide for ourselves, push manufacturers in the direction we need them to head, instead of driving us with their own thoughts on what is necessary.
I don't use much in the way of media, so anything more than 720P is of little use, but I do appreciate an HDMI-type format screen.
The RF section is far more important to my needs, and of course, a micro-SD card slot.
I prefer a sensitive front end, high dynamic range, and a superbly augmented IP3(third intercept point) as a basis for my receiver design.
I have grown tired of matchbox quality RF systems, and when in poor signal areas, or in a heavily wooded area with sparse cell tower penetration, i prefer my phone have the ability to connect with a site even if the RSSI indicates no signal, at least a data channel should be able to 'hear' a short text message for help if sent.
If the phone can't hear well, it can't talk well, either.
Most subscribers assume that cell signals are routed through the power lines*!*
I have had customers that actually said this...But this is the basis of my most desired and important 'want', a solid RF system, receiver and transmitter section that works!
High density areas have few problems with dropped calls, if the site loading is low, but in rural areas, loading is not an issue, it's accessibility, and sites spaced 10 miles apart, can actually have users drop calls even near by, due to dense foliage or hilly/mountainous terrain, even though the tower is within eyesight, you still drop a call. This is where fresnel zones come into play, and where a good RF section makes the difference.
If you think rain kills RF signals, see my pic I just snapped from my door, of the trees filled with heavy snow!
Poorly designed RF systems can't decode signals properly, the B.E.R suffers, causing message failures, call time-outs as well as just lousy QOS due to noise, echoing, raspy speech processing and a host of other problems.
The memory subsystems are important, as well as the GPU and video systems, but you can still make a call if the video drops, not so much if the RF section dies.
We all have our own desires, as well as what is most important to our needs, but overall, i do believe that project Ara is a great step in the right direction for a change....Where the customer drive the market, not the manufacturers!
Now I don't know if you were aware, but Google only owns Motorola's Research Lab. The actual company was purchased by Lenovo a few weeks ago.
Besides, I sort feel the same way, because, besides the hubbub, it doesn't seem like a very user friendly process in my mind. That's why I think it feels like nothing more than a research project with a couple of news reporters locked inside their facilities.
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Don't forget to hit thanks if I helped!
In the beginning, they will have to offer options in a controlled environment like one poster abive said. It will be similar to
1. CHOOSE YOUR PROCESSOR:
a. Good
b. Better
c. Best
Etc etc....
The first question probably will be "Choose Your Carrier". Then all of the module choices will be pre-screened to function together on that network.
Samsung Galaxy S4 "Fort Knox Edition"
Guys, believe in Google. They made a search engine wich is now the most used engine. They also made a very good browser, an operating system for mobiles, an online map wich has street view and many other good things. Why they couldn't make project ara?
Sent from my LG-P880 using xda app-developers app
PenguinStyle said:
Guys, believe in Google. They made a search engine wich is now the most used engine. They also made a very good browser, an operating system for mobiles, an online map wich has street view and many other good things. Why they couldn't make project ara?
Sent from my LG-P880 using xda app-developers app
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Just making sure it wasnt a misinterpretation but google did not create android, Android Inc founded by andy rubin(correct me if im wrong) http://www.techradar.com/news/phone...e-phones/a-complete-history-of-android-470327
PenguinStyle said:
Guys, believe in Google. They made a search engine wich is now the most used engine. They also made a very good browser, an operating system for mobiles, an online map wich has street view and many other good things. Why they couldn't make project ara?
Sent from my LG-P880 using xda app-developers app
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All those things you mention are software, that runs on high performance computers. What ARA requires is a total rethinking of the hardware and engineering of today's mobile phones.
Can any module be swapped for some other type of module? How do they interface? What bandwidth limitations do these interfaces introduce?
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SynGates said:
All those things you mention are software, that runs on high performance computers. What ARA requires is a total rethinking of the hardware and engineering of today's mobile phones.
Can any module be swapped for some other type of module? How do they interface? What bandwidth limitations do these interfaces introduce?
Sent from my GT-I9505 using Tapatalk
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The ARA developers conference already answered most of this, so its possibility is not the question. Its availability and adaptability is the question. Will people flock to it or despise it?? Will it make people feel more in control?
If google can advertise this thing as something that gives people more power it will definitely catch on. Plus if Google is truly looking to start their own mobile network as rumoured, then they could start in that manner and make others envious to catch on.
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It's going to be a wait and see what happens on release thing I think. I don't personally don't think it's going to explode instantly onto the mobile scene but give it a year or two and hopefully it will start changing the game. With everything being open source it might pave the way for smaller companies to get into the handheld scene where they don't have the money or resources to develop full devices but can focus on just a single module. Much like the way of the custom pc market.
replicamask said:
It's going to be a wait and see what happens on release thing I think. I don't personally don't think it's going to explode instantly onto the mobile scene but give it a year or two and hopefully it will start changing the game. With everything being open source it might pave the way for smaller companies to get into the handheld scene where they don't have the money or resources to develop full devices but can focus on just a single module. Much like the way of the custom pc market.
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My sentiments exactly.
Koreans will really fight against this project. They won't be willing to loose the cellular market to Google. ARA has a lot of potential in developing countries, provided the prices for modules will be adequate. But yes, even with adequate pricetag such innovation will require a drastic change in marketing-infected minds of people.
Sent from my SM-N900W8 using Tapatalk 4
I hope it could work really well. I'd like to see the ability to transfer all the core modules from one endo 'frame' to another - SIM, WiFi, ROM, storage plus camera and perhaps CPU/RAM from a larger 'everyday' frame to a smaller 'night out' frame. I'd like an 'everyday' camera and a 'holiday' camera. I might carry a speaker module, but would swap it in against a torch module only for those occasions I'd need it. I'd carry spare battery modules and expect to see external chargers for them.
Didn't read the whole thread, but I'd say the whole "eco friendly" concept is BS from the beginning. People will start buying new components everytime they are out, thus generating MORE electric waste.
till22 said:
Didn't read the whole thread, but I'd say the whole "eco friendly" concept is BS from the beginning. People will start buying new components everytime they are out, thus generating MORE electric waste.
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This is possible and a good point. I think they could counter this by placing some inherent value on modules so you could trade them in for cash or credit towards other modules.
I think this will work much better than trading in phones since all modules should work for all ara phones.
What you all need to remember is that the microcomputer revolution didn't really become a mass market phenomenon until the IBM PC arrived with its open "Industry Standard Architecture". This allowed the rapid emergence of third party expansion cards and other "PC compatible" hardware, and "PC clones". Not only did this accelerate the pace of technology development it also pushed prices down significantly. If IBM had not made the PC architecture both expandable and open, general purpose computing would have remained an expensive and specialised tool available only to business and the very rich. Imagine the effect that wouls have had on the development of the worldwide web a decade later.
If you are of the generation who grew up uaing laptops you may not have realised that modular technology is cheaper and more flexible, and it means longer hardware lifecycles.
Dear Windows Phone users,
I've decided to go back to Android after being part of this community for almost halve a year now. I would like to thank GoodDayToDie, -W_O_L_F-, jessenic, reker, hjc4869, compu829, contable, ngame and snickler for creating apps and hacks which helped ease the pain and extend the time I had my Ativ S (to be honest I wasn't all too happy of my WP in the first place, a friend had recommended it). I loved being part of this WP community, but the frustration I had with the OS were too severe to cope any longer with WP. Reasons for departure are as following :
- I was getting bored with the slow official app development and the lack of update/support on both official and non-official apps that were released.
- I was experiencing a lot of lag lately on my Ativ S, even more FC/CTD's and freezes than my cheap ZTE Skate. Could be the apps, I was using : 9gag by Rudy Huyn (he's going to make the official tinder app allegedly, wonder how this goes) and an unofficial tweakers app, but I experienced this far too often to ignore also with other apps (Flash Player, etc).
- The battery was discharging even when plugged in (overnight 100% -> 89% when plugged in). Drain of 30% over two hours WiFi use.
- I was sick and tired of the Nokia dominance on the WP market, if you see how many free apps (Plex, Hot Rod Racers,...) they could download and I couldn't (even with the proxy trick).
- I was sick and tired of the rumors around Windows Phone, if you follow WPCentral and WMPoweruser, you get almost depressive of the cheer improbability of the rumors created (eg. Sony which going to make a WP, how do they think Sony will react if they see Xbox Music + Video and Xbox Games on their hardware, Microsoft making an exception is also very improbable because this means they have to give in). Uninstalling WPCentral and WMPoweruser isn't an option as you may miss notifications on great deals (eg. all angry birds temporally free or temporally free Asphalt 8 or temporally free Disney games).
- Too many promises (GDR1, GDR2, GDR3 and WP 8.1 is going to be the same thing), so little result.
- Biggest bloat ("system" and "other" partition) I've experienced on any OS I've used.
- The fact that Microsoft is fighting against interop-unlock, by encrypting everything and forcing Samsung to plug their FCRouter exploit. The only advantage is a safer OS, but this also isn't true if you saw what happened with the hacked KPN app installed from the official Windows Store, stealing data from WP users. Source : http://wmpoweruser.com/the-danger-o...dows-phone-app-steals-thousands-of-passwords/
- Too many users who ask if they could flash Android on a Windows Phone (no obviously), and too many times the same answer that WP is better as Android (everyone is entitled to their own opinion) and that if you wanted Android, you should have bought an Android Phone (which I have done a couple of days ago).
- I got a good deal on a brand new Nexus 5 (16 GB) getting it for 335 euro (there was a temporally discount of a big concern with the discount being the percentage of the BTW (similar to the VAT in the UK)), far less expensive as a brand new similar Nokia Lumia 1520 (same place, same discount at 549 euro, I admit it has a better camera and a bigger screen, but I don't need any of those things, smartphones outdate too fast to be spending over 500 euro on a device).
You may think different on these points than me and I respect that (again everyone is entitled to their own opinion). But I hope you can respect my opinion and my decision to go back. This post is not to convince people switching back to Android, oh no, but to explain why I'll leave this part of the xda forums.
Take care.
bruce142
The fact that your device was lagging and the battery drain was even there when charging shows that it was...uhm...some kinda buggy/faulty/bricked. This and some other points in your list aren't really comprehensible for me....if I would have a defective device like yours I would send it back or smth like RMA...
Biggest bloat you've ever seen on any OS...never seen a Galaxy S4 16GB or HTC One 16 GB in your life? You simply get the half of the internal storage...that's a bloat.
"Official" Android apps are stealing your data in the same way like the KPN app you've named... any examle? Little time ago there was a nice flashlight app
Some people are asking to install Android on a WP and that's disturbing you so much? I wouldn't care a lot of that and rumors are rumors...that's life!
I respect your decision and know the benefits of Android but the points above are just my Point of view to your arguments.
btw I'm also an Ativ user...battery lasts 2 days with heavy use, doesn't drain over night when using airplane mode (with doesn't I mean sth like 68% to 67%) and with the Proxy trick...yeah what should I say... it's not made for Samsung but I got nearly every app I wanted with that method (some do work, others not...)
greets sp4rt4n-i17
sp4rt4n-i17 said:
The fact that your device was lagging and the battery drain was even there when charging shows that it was...uhm...some kinda buggy/faulty/bricked. This and some other points in your list aren't really comprehensible for me....if I would have a defective device like yours I would send it back or smth like RMA...
Biggest bloat you've ever seen on any OS...never seen a Galaxy S4 16GB or HTC One 16 GB in your life? You simply get the half of the internal storage...that's a bloat.
"Official" Android apps are stealing your data in the same way like the KPN app you've named... any examle? Little time ago there was a nice flashlight app
Some people are asking to install Android on a WP and that's disturbing you so much? I wouldn't care a lot of that and rumors are rumors...that's life!
I respect your decision and know the benefits of Android but the points above are just my Point of view to your arguments.
btw I'm also an Ativ user...battery lasts 2 days with heavy use, doesn't drain over night when using airplane mode (with doesn't I mean sth like 68% to 67%) and with the Proxy trick...yeah what should I say... it's not made for Samsung but I got nearly every app I wanted with that method (some do work, others not...)
greets sp4rt4n-i17
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Just some clarification (I respect your views by the way, I really do),
My device wasn't bricked (bricked is if you failed to flash a device successfully and the phone doesn't boot anymore), it wasn't faulty or bugged, it functioned normal for until a couple of months ago. Saying a device is bricked/bugged/faulty instead of putting the blame on the OS, is contradictory to the term "lagdroid" or "bugdroid" WP users like to use.
By bloat I mean files you can't delete from installers and unknown file types downloaded to IE, on Android you get meaningless apps in return, you can uninstall (you can also install a light rom with no bloat at all). And the Nexus 5 has 12.86 GB of 16 GB free from the start, a lot more then I got from my Ativ S (somewhere around 11.98 GB), from a system which uses less image resources.
About the flashlight app, yeah I know (although this was merely a app which collected data to enhance advertisements and not to commit fraud as the "KPN" ripoff app does), but this you can expect from an open-source system as Android, not from a closed-source/bolted down system as WP, it's the only argument to keep a OS closed-source/locked. Android has different security system, you need to approve the capabilities before you install, in the latest versions of Android you enable privacy mode, you can install a anti-virus app on Android and if your Android phone is rooted you can install ad-away and a firewall. If you use common sense and you scan the apk's you deploy you can't get a virus on Android (I never had one on my ZTE Skate).
About the android on WP thing it was a joke (notice the emoticon ), but the answers always are the same and never help anyone. People could just say no and don't start a "which OS is better" war over it. Rumors are rumors, yeah, but it can be really annoying if the only thing you do with those rumors are giving people false hope and prevent people from making the switch back to Android under false pretenses that the future of WP is all bright and colorful with the scent of roses frolicking through the valley of Microsoft.
The battery thing, I wouldn't mind little drain (all smartphones don't manage to equal their specified battery times). But draining when the phone is plugged in? No, this is unacceptable. The phone even turns off when its plugged in and below 3%, it always shuts down around 3-4%, imagine if you're being kidnapped and you have little battery left, android goes to 1% and does boot on 1% while WP shuts down around 3-4% and can't be booted anymore, android would be a lifesaver and WP would be useless in this kind of situation.
I get only one day with heavy usage, two days with medium usage, I have disabled all background tasks I don't need, keep brightness on auto, keep only WiFi on (Data, bluetooth and location are always off) and WiFi goes to standby when the screen is off. I do have a weather app with lockscreen support installed, shortcuts to WiFi, Location, Screen Rotation, Data and Bluetooth with the status in the icons (green = on, gray = off) and a couple of live tiles (Xbox Music+Video, Xbox Games, AppDeals, myFreeApp, Store Deals, Weather app with forecast and TimeMe which updates each minute, I imagine this is a huge battery drainer) on my home screen.
Your device clearly had some hardware issues. You are the first one ever to complain about such problems.
mcosmin222 said:
Your device clearly had some hardware issues. You are the first one ever to complain about such problems.
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Thanks! This is what i meant... And to Bruce: same here with the couple of live tiles
So as I said: your device might be "faulty" or call it whatever you like to call it...
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mcosmin222 said:
Your device clearly had some hardware issues. You are the first one ever to complain about such problems.
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I know it's the OS (the lag part) or the apps I've mentioned (look in the review other people who have installed these apps mention crashing), stop reverting the blame from WP to the device. If the device was broken or something like that I couldn't play high end games like Asphalt 8 (which crashes also sometimes), the free version of Drift Mania : Street Outlaws or even Sims FreePlay. Games worked fine as does playing 720p content. These are high demanding CPU and GPU tasks.
As I see where this is going, I'm asking this thread to be locked.
Thread locked per OP's request.