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I didn't think it belonged in Dream Android Development, so I'm putting it here. If it needs to be moved, move it.
Is it possible to boot anything other than Android on the Dream?
I've seen the Nokia N900 and its Maemo 5 firmware, and I'm absolutely drawn to it, thanks to its debian-based OS (sudo apt-get install anything), it's X-based graphics system (REAL linux GUI programs), and all the apps it already has (Native Gizmo > Hacky Sipdroid).
I've also taken a look at other Linux-based open phone firmwares.
What is keeping us from doing this? If it's drivers, do they exist for another similar Linux-based firmware?
Could we dual-boot Android and this other OS using a third-stage bootloader which loads as a kernel from within the BOOT: partition?
I've seen the (albeit extremely hackish) method of getting Debian on the G1, chrooting into a loop-mounted FS and using a loopback VNC to spring into a KDE/Gnome/LXDE UI, but it's slow, still has Android and its apps loaded into memory, and very hackish and unstable.
I'm more than willing to test anything firmware-wise on my phone as long as it doesn't mess with my SPL.
The possibilities are nearly limitless - WINE under Linux means true "Windows Mobile" without the WinCE kernel.
Or perhaps WinMo/WinCE can be booted on the Dream?
It's more of a question of whether or not it's possible right now than a concept or implementation, but once that's answered, I'll either throw some time into testing and porting, or kick back and enjoy the Android as it is.
For starters:
- How does the SPL hand off to the BOOT: partition and its kernel/initrd?
- What devices need what drivers? What should be thrown into the kernel?
- Do things need reverse-engineering or is it all straightforward and documented?
- How can we use the space provided without messing with the SPL? (use cache partition for OS? Modified recovery that doesn't depend on cache partition?)
- Is dual-booting between Android possible? Can this be switched and launched before Dalvik and the Android stuff loads on the Android kernel?
- Can this be done with other Android-powered, rooted devices?
Have you seen wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_on_HTC-Dream or lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-August/052529.html? (Crap, I can't post links) Looks promising since Angstrom is a very powerful embedded distro, but it's a one-man project now. I hope some people will join it or start a similar project.
G1 is a great device, however, I can see only a few people hacking on OS alternatives for it. You always got to have either an active community or a company in order to complete such a project.
The Android hackers community is very vibrant, however, people are not really interested in bringing a fully-featured Linux distro to G1 or other Android phones. Android is too trendy itself
The Debian/Ubuntu opportunity that we have now is nice, but it looks like an addition to the Android which takes a lot of memory and CPU.
I have just set up a small Ubuntu environment booting on my G1 together with Android. I combined the userspace prepared by Paolo Sammicheli (xdatap1.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/jaunty-under-android/) with Bayle Shanks's instructions (bayleshanks.com/wiki.pl?tips-computer-android-g1_debian_cyanogenMod). I am going to use it for mutt, vim, some coding. X11/VNC experience has been frustrating so far.
I am pretty sure though that there will be more people wanting to use alternative OSes on their phones: Moto Droid and Nexus are powerful enough for a full desktop environment.
vaskas said:
Have you seen wiki.openmoko.org/wiki/OpenMoko_on_HTC-Dream or lists.openmoko.org/pipermail/community/2009-August/052529.html? (Crap, I can't post links) Looks promising since Angstrom is a very powerful embedded distro, but it's a one-man project now. I hope some people will join it or start a similar project.
G1 is a great device, however, I can see only a few people hacking on OS alternatives for it. You always got to have either an active community or a company in order to complete such a project.
The Android hackers community is very vibrant, however, people are not really interested in bringing a fully-featured Linux distro to G1 or other Android phones. Android is too trendy itself
The Debian/Ubuntu opportunity that we have now is nice, but it looks like an addition to the Android which takes a lot of memory and CPU.
I have just set up a small Ubuntu environment booting on my G1 together with Android. I combined the userspace prepared by Paolo Sammicheli (xdatap1.wordpress.com/2009/05/03/jaunty-under-android/) with Bayle Shanks's instructions (bayleshanks.com/wiki.pl?tips-computer-android-g1_debian_cyanogenMod). I am going to use it for mutt, vim, some coding. X11/VNC experience has been frustrating so far.
I am pretty sure though that there will be more people wanting to use alternative OSes on their phones: Moto Droid and Nexus are powerful enough for a full desktop environment.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i really think it lies in what you want from your phone... i know you say you use your ubuntu env for things such as vim and mutt, but everything that vim and mutt can do, can already be done under android..
the biggest challenge is getting people to latch on to an alternate distro which offers MORE than android, which has yet to come to surface... ultimately this is a phone.. not a netbook...and for a phone android is pretty dam sweet...
although in terms of geek work, running ANY other os on non native hardware is cool....albeit not really worth it
anybody were successful by using the internal-memory-image from the openmoko wiki?
I always get kernel panic, when booting it. I flashed it with flash_image boot/system, does this matter? In the wiki they use fastboot.
scheich, I only tried the SD-card way (see my post in http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=624392)
It shouldn't really matter whether you use fastboot or flash the image. The kernel panic could occur due to the inability to find the root filesystem. Try reflashing the yaffs2.
By the way, why did you choose to put OpenMoko in the internal memory? Are you going to use it exclusively or as the primary OS on the device?
Some of what you suggest can be done, but not recommended.
1) Nokia/Maemo is a bad fit for a phone. It is a real HOG. It is also shoehorning (with a sledge hammer) a desktop OS into a phone. It just doesn't work right. Android exists because a totally new UI model was needed to work optimally with a phone's physical form.
2) WINE will NEVER work since the CPU in the phone is ARM and not x86. If you want to run windonkey programs (can't imagine why you would), you would have to run a PROCESSOR EMULATOR, and this will be REALLY REALLY REALLY slow and memory intense.
TylTru said:
I didn't think it belonged in Dream Android Development, so I'm putting it here. If it needs to be moved, move it.
Is it possible to boot anything other than Android on the Dream?
I've seen the Nokia N900 and its Maemo 5 firmware, and I'm absolutely drawn to it, thanks to its debian-based OS (sudo apt-get install anything), it's X-based graphics system (REAL linux GUI programs), and all the apps it already has (Native Gizmo > Hacky Sipdroid).
I've also taken a look at other Linux-based open phone firmwares.
What is keeping us from doing this? If it's drivers, do they exist for another similar Linux-based firmware?
Could we dual-boot Android and this other OS using a third-stage bootloader which loads as a kernel from within the BOOT: partition?
I've seen the (albeit extremely hackish) method of getting Debian on the G1, chrooting into a loop-mounted FS and using a loopback VNC to spring into a KDE/Gnome/LXDE UI, but it's slow, still has Android and its apps loaded into memory, and very hackish and unstable.
I'm more than willing to test anything firmware-wise on my phone as long as it doesn't mess with my SPL.
The possibilities are nearly limitless - WINE under Linux means true "Windows Mobile" without the WinCE kernel.
Or perhaps WinMo/WinCE can be booted on the Dream?
It's more of a question of whether or not it's possible right now than a concept or implementation, but once that's answered, I'll either throw some time into testing and porting, or kick back and enjoy the Android as it is.
For starters:
- How does the SPL hand off to the BOOT: partition and its kernel/initrd?
- What devices need what drivers? What should be thrown into the kernel?
- Do things need reverse-engineering or is it all straightforward and documented?
- How can we use the space provided without messing with the SPL? (use cache partition for OS? Modified recovery that doesn't depend on cache partition?)
- Is dual-booting between Android possible? Can this be switched and launched before Dalvik and the Android stuff loads on the Android kernel?
- Can this be done with other Android-powered, rooted devices?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
vaskas said:
scheich, I only tried the SD-card way (see my post in http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=624392)
It shouldn't really matter whether you use fastboot or flash the image. The kernel panic could occur due to the inability to find the root filesystem. Try reflashing the yaffs2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Tried reflashing the system image. Also the older image on the ftpserver. The same. I will try the sdcard installation.
vaskas said:
By the way, why did you choose to put OpenMoko in the internal memory? Are you going to use it exclusively or as the primary OS on the device?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Two reasons:
1. Thought that would be the faster way to get it work. I used BART to backup my android installation.
2. Thougt, I would get a bit more perfomance in using the internal memory.
I really would like to use SHR(or other) as primary OS, because I had an GTA02, depends on what is(could) work(ing) on the dream.
would it be possible to boot ubuntu netbook remix? it uses far less resources.
zenstitution said:
would it be possible to boot ubuntu netbook remix? it uses far less resources.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NBR is targeted at x86, but Ubuntu MID edition is installable. It's similar to the netbook remix. We'll have to wait before we have a proven/stable installation method though.
I would really like to see another OS on my Dream as well - just in addition to android
Che123 said:
I would really like to see another OS on my Dream as well - just in addition to android
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, you can try the OpenMoko port (it's in the alpha stage now): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5521417
The more people get interested in the alternative OS, the sooner we'll get one.
vaskas said:
Well, you can try the OpenMoko port (it's in the alpha stage now): http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5521417
The more people get interested in the alternative OS, the sooner we'll get one.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really hot stuff - but i don't want to loose my recovery
But i will definetly keep an eye on it!
edit: Adding a bootmngr like grub for selecting boot OS (android/openmoko/recovery) would be really nice Or adding bootoptions to the current amon_ra Recovery would be a soloution too. But I'm no dev, so I don't even know if it is possible.
There are plenty of advantages of using NAND version (in development) but there is huge risk - the new loader and waranty violation.
After darkstone released so called "RAM version" I started to think about the new direction of development of Android builds.
The advantage RAM versions over NAND is limited risk. It can be started on Stock HD2 ROM without waranty violation.
We need
- 100 MB for WinMo barebone (it is in ROM already)
- 100 MB for Android readonly system files (clean froyo, as darkstone SuperRAM Froy v1) or 150 MB for Sense RAM version
- 256 MB (or more) for some type of data.img.
Our HD2 has (I know there are different versions): 512 MB ROM and 448 MB RAM.
So we have a plenty of memory capabilities, and if WinMo barebone resides in ROM and Andoroid system files goes to RAM or even ROM (but not in NAND way - in "SuperRAM" way). I believe this is really good direction. Maybe it is a good way of next generation Android builds, but not NAND ones.
What do you think (developers) ?
(I do respect NAND developers hard work, it is hard to start new thread without thank you guys)
Edit
Please, do not take it as another "thanks to SuperRAM thread" (this is not the point)
WOW
This SuperRAM from darkstone just leave me wow that is really smoking rom
without one NAND but i respect the hard work from the developer of NAND
install android without use WM 6.5 just like one real android phone of have option to go back to wm install wm 7 and say ok i want go to wm 6.5 again jjuts like that
some person say but u could buy an android phone if you dont want to see wm mobile in hd2 ok i understand but some person just want to install and reinstall and try sothing all day
Im one of those. i dont know you ...
I wonder if over utilization of the ram can lead to hardware problems.
Thoughts?
First we need to know how the RAM version work? I thought ba a normal SD Build data is also going into RAM. What is so special about thius RAM version?
ronalgps said:
some person say but u could buy an android phone if you dont want to see wm mobile in hd2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What about ppls who cannot afford cash to buy a new Android phone for like $600-$900.
I have received my HD2 as a gift so.. people be kind when speaking about buying something new if we don't like what we already have/own.
If everyone was thinking like "if you don't want WM, buy an android phone" we would never have Android on our HD2s, neither WP7 nor ubuntu!
lemar123 said:
(I do respect NAND developers hard work, it is hard to start new thread without thank you gays)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Developers is not "gays". It is guys.
DerBozZ said:
(...) What is so special about thius RAM version?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
RAM (way) is haret based version, so you do not have to put hardspl to you phone (or you can now restore stock rom cleaning hardspl). Most of latest stock firmwares are android friendly (radio is good enough). You can use WinMo (30s to boot) and then load Android (another 30s) without any risk of bricking your phone. I assume RAM resident version will be good enough (why not ?) like almost perfect microsd card version.
NAND versions will require new loader (magldr) - so there is always a risk of bricking your phone and, using hardspl you could clean it by a stock rom, there is no info about cleaning it same way.
Can anybody confirm that removing magldr is as easy as removing hardspl (in case of warranty service repair) ? Even it is easy cleanable - RAM version requires neither hardspl nor magldr - so it is pretty safe for me.
So, I have a hope devs/cooks will find the way to put all necessery "haret based" android filesystem files into ROM/RAM but leaving stock WinMo rom alone.
lemar123 said:
RAM (way) is haret based version, so you do not have to put hardspl to you phone (or you can now restore stock rom cleaning hardspl). Most of latest stock firmwares are android friendly (radio is good enough). You can use WinMo (30s to boot) and then load Android (another 30s) without any risk of bricking your phone. I assume RAM resident version will be good enough (why not ?) like almost perfect microsd card version.
NAND versions will require new loader (magldr) - so there is always a risk of bricking your phone and, using hardspl you could clean it by a stock rom, there is no info about cleaning it same way.
Can anybody confirm that removing magldr is as easy as removing hardspl (in case of warranty service repair) ? Even it is easy cleanable - RAM version requires neither hardspl nor magldr - so it is pretty safe for me.
So, I have a hope devs/cooks will find the way to put all necessery "haret based" android filesystem files into ROM/RAM but leaving stock WinMo rom alone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cotulla has stated that magldr is flashed over HSPL, to clean it all you have to do is flash a winmo stock ROM and it's gone back to normal.
orangekid said:
Cotulla has stated that magldr is flashed over HSPL, to clean it all you have to do is flash a winmo stock ROM and it's gone back to normal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmm, mods closed this thread ...
Maybe because of rumors it is creating or maybe it was true.
That is why I prefer RAM version .
RAM introduces data corruption. Everything is loaded into the RAM and then synced with the SD card, but if your phone turns off (battery died or dropped phone) or you have a random hard reboot, you risk not being able to boot back into Android.
So I have one question, for those (like me) who have a RAM limitation (due to hspl) with 3.14 official rom, we have 50mb free ram in winmo.
Can we use this type of build or must we change for a custom winmo rom (with 200 + free ram) before ?
Igoran said:
Developers is not "gays". It is guys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
oupsss ...
Sorry, for that ... ;-)
@TonyCubed
I believe, it is not synced at all.
Changes are applied by /Android/root folder - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=9767735&postcount=16
So no need to to sync. It is safe.
radiance26 said:
So I have one question, for those (like me) who have a RAM limitation (due to hspl) with 3.14 official rom, we have 50mb free ram in winmo.
Can we use this type of build or must we change for a custom winmo rom (with 200 + free ram) before ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I understand it, when Android is running winmo is completely shut down, so it isn't using any ram or cpu time.
That's why you can't just "quit" android and drop back into winmo, you have to reboot the phone.
Feel free to correct me if someone knows better.
tarwedge said:
As I understand it, when Android is running winmo is completely shut down, so it isn't using any ram or cpu time.
That's why you can't just "quit" android and drop back into winmo, you have to reboot the phone.
Feel free to correct me if someone knows better.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if my understanding is correct, winmo kernel should remain in the ram and works as "drivers", and helps communication between hardware and android
vista1984 said:
if my understanding is correct, winmo kernel should remain in the ram and works as "drivers", and helps communication between hardware and android
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, it doesn't remain in ram. When you start haret.exe it kills the windows kernel. It does not, however, erase what's currenty in ram at the time. haret uses some of those memory locations to map things.
So it's not good for me to have a limitation ?
mstrk242 said:
No, it doesn't remain in ram. When you start haret.exe it kills the windows kernel. It does not, however, erase what's currenty in ram at the time. haret uses some of those memory locations to map things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thanks for the clarify,
but i was puzzled that why people suggest update quick gps in winmo to improve gps locating speed in android?
are there any booklets of Haret's mechanism for noob like me?
I don't think any of us know the pros and cons of Darkstone's SuperRam vs DFTeams NAND, seeing as how one of those isn't released yet...
mstrk242 said:
No, it doesn't remain in ram. When you start haret.exe it kills the windows kernel. It does not, however, erase what's currenty in ram at the time. haret uses some of those memory locations to map things.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Based on this I have a question then: If what your saying is for the most part accurate, Then in thought the kernel is killed but the rest remain, so from a clean boot into WinMO then a boot into android we arent utilizing the full capacity of the HD2 Ram? I understand haret uses some of the memory locations to map things, but meaning to map drivers or hardware information to the android OS?
This peaks my curiosity only cause if Android is using limited memory, then would a NanD Boot (Which I assume is a straight boot) be more benficial to run clean and possibly smoother?
I'm sorry if the question sounds dumb, but it really peaked my interest.
HaRET shutdowns winmo and maps certain portions of linux into certain memory addresses. No part of winmo remains once HaRET boots the linux kernel. To check how much ram you have available out of the total amount you can run "free" from terminal emulator or adb shell. if you get "free: command not found" then run "busybox free", if that fails install busybox and try again.
If any of you have ever checked dmesg's log you'll notice how it recognizes 448mb of ram.
Given the law about releasing the source for their OS implementation, I.e. kernel and hardware drivers, when do we expect to have the 2.1 source, giving us a feel for the 2.2 implementation? Should have released the 2.1 by now for the 70 and 101....
EDIT: Looks like Android 2.2.1 (Firmware 2.0.54) was released Nov 30, 2010 - so we should expect to see the source for it by the end of this year.
EDIT: Looks like the source has been released - http://www.archos.com/support/download/software/sources/gen8-gpl-froyo.tgz
Now we need someone with good Linux abilities to start helping us compile a custom kernel.....
Sent with my fingertips and voice on my Evo
no custom kernel till we get rooted for the phone...once we get rooted we can do watever to it..im gonna have me a ball with this once we do...lmao
txtmikhail said:
no custom kernel till we get rooted for the phone...once we get rooted we can do watever to it..im gonna have me a ball with this once we do...lmao
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So does the SDE not look attractive? We have root that way and can do kernels and such....
But I would rather have FULL root (NAND unlocked like we do with HTC phones) enabling us to fully take over the device - instead of essentially a dual boot environment that leaves the stock build on the device and takes up space....
There seem to be some people who think we can't unlock NAND - and don't see why we would want to.
Sent with my fingertips and voice on my Evo
jerdog said:
So does the SDE not look attractive? We have root that way and can do kernels and such....
But I would rather have FULL root (NAND unlocked like we do with HTC phones) enabling us to fully take over the device - instead of essentially a dual boot environment that leaves the stock build on the device and takes up space....
There seem to be some people who think we can't unlock NAND - and don't see why we would want to.
Sent with my fingertips and voice on my Evo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i dont know much about the SDE but i know i dont want to install it. with a lil work and time i think we can get this thing fully rooted .. The kernel
is most important to me cuz this thing needs to be overclocked to atleast 1.2ghz..
you don't want to fully root and reformat everything and may brick your device. it's just not worth it.
use the SDE: install custom kernel and if your satisfied remove default kernel and it will boot only custom kernel (until you install any archos firmware again)
with SDE you can use full internal storage (kernel is stored in another very little flash chip: /dev/mmcblk0, mmcblk1 = internal storage, mmcblk2 = sdcard), reformat it and install and do whatever you want. if you're not satisfied, start in recovery mode reformat the device and start all over again or install the archos firmware again. no real chance to brick your device.
why would anyone try to brick his device if he has full device access for free?
@topic building custom kernel and cross compile some linux libraries is quite easy, I'll post an HowTo and some shell scripts today or tomorrow, ok?
I want full root to do wat I want..I have a epic 4g wit root and a custom rom..one ...I don't need to boot up wit dual boot for the same os...
Sent from my A101IT using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
chulri said:
you don't want to fully root and reformat everything and may brick your device. it's just not worth it.
use the SDE: install custom kernel and if your satisfied remove default kernel and it will boot only custom kernel (until you install any archos firmware again)
with SDE you can use full internal storage (kernel is stored in another very little flash chip: /dev/mmcblk0, mmcblk1 = internal storage, mmcblk2 = sdcard), reformat it and install and do whatever you want. if you're not satisfied, start in recovery mode reformat the device and start all over again or install the archos firmware again. no real chance to brick your device.
why would anyone try to brick his device if he has full device access for free?
@topic building custom kernel and cross compile some linux libraries is quite easy, I'll post an HowTo and some shell scripts today or tomorrow, ok?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Once we get root and a recovery image installed bricking the device is pretty hard to do. I seriously haven't heard of any people bricking their phones (other then people flashing different radios - gsm for cdma and vice versa). Rooting and making a 100% ASOP rom would kick ass. Not sure what archos was thinking for making it impossible to root. dumb decision. fail
how would you install a recovery image to a bricked Gen8 device??
there is no need for dual boot but an option in the recovery menu called something like "remove android kernel" which removes the default kernel so the device boots custom kernel only, no dual boot if you don't want it.
You have full root access with SDE, tell me what you can't do with SDE?
SDE = recovery bootloader --> nearly unbrickable device
chulri said:
you don't want to fully root and reformat everything and may brick your device. it's just not worth it.
use the SDE: install custom kernel and if your satisfied remove default kernel and it will boot only custom kernel (until you install any archos firmware again)
with SDE you can use full internal storage (kernel is stored in another very little flash chip: /dev/mmcblk0, mmcblk1 = internal storage, mmcblk2 = sdcard), reformat it and install and do whatever you want. if you're not satisfied, start in recovery mode reformat the device and start all over again or install the archos firmware again. no real chance to brick your device.
why would anyone try to brick his device if he has full device access for free?
@topic building custom kernel and cross compile some linux libraries is quite easy, I'll post an HowTo and some shell scripts today or tomorrow, ok?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A HowTo on this device would be great. Thanks!
As to custom ROMs, etc. - I echo other comments above. I have never had anyone truly brick their device doing custom ROMs - I work at a carrier and have not seen a truly bricked device that couldn't be undone with a custom recovery and/or reflash back to stock and locking NAND again and noone is the wiser. We can put together custom kernels all we want, but a lot of the holdup in devices is the bloatware that the manufacturers put in - and a lot of it is behind the scene in the frameworks. Just doing a custom kernel is great - but to unleash the real potential of the device is to remove all the unnecessary options and software and libraries that are not needed.
Not sure who all here has dealt with Android phones and the custom/AOSP/CM environment, but going to AOSP (or CM) without all the manufacturer bloat and only including the necessary drivers and such will show you how much of a performance boost and unending promise a device truly has. The possibilities are endless.
THAT is why we desire to have NAND unlocked and the ability to move this device to take full advantage of it's hardware.
HowTo is online: [HOWTO] Build custom kernel, libraries and applications on your own
jerdog said:
We can put together custom kernels all we want, but a lot of the holdup in devices is the bloatware that the manufacturers put in - and a lot of it is behind the scene in the frameworks. Just doing a custom kernel is great - but to unleash the real potential of the device is to remove all the unnecessary options and software and libraries that are not needed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you can replace the whole operating system, archos ships per default some buggy angstrom linux with SDE. maybe someone is able to put ubuntu or windows phone 7 onto it if he is crazy enough
jerdog said:
THAT is why we desire to have NAND unlocked and the ability to move this device to take full advantage of it's hardware.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you mean with NAND? The Internal Storage (A101IT - 8 or 16 GB) or the flash chip where the kernels and the default android OS are stored?
eitherway, both are NOT locked. you can remove and replace the (signed by archos) squashfs from /dev/mmcblk0p2 and put your own android or any other operating system in it. or reformat /dev/mmcblk1 (internal storage -> 8 / 16 GB) and install your own operating system (e.g. some stripped ubuntu)
Gen8 devices aren't locked. Install SDE und you can do whatever you want with only little possibility of permanently brick it. you always can reinstall the archos firmware to restore default android OS
I'm looking forward to a clean/vanilla 2.2 rom with all bloat removed!
chulri said:
What do you mean with NAND? The Internal Storage (A101IT - 8 or 16 GB) or the flash chip where the kernels and the default android OS are stored?
eitherway, both are NOT locked. you can remove and replace the (signed by archos) squashfs from /dev/mmcblk0p2 and put your own android or any other operating system in it. or reformat /dev/mmcblk1 (internal storage -> 8 / 16 GB) and install your own operating system (e.g. some stripped ubuntu)
Gen8 devices aren't locked. Install SDE und you can do whatever you want with only little possibility of permanently brick it. you always can reinstall the archos firmware to restore default android OS
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
NAND refers to the flash chip where Archos (and all other manufacturers) put their system files.
When you delete something from the Archos OS (i.e. /system) and then reboot, does it show back up or is it permanently removed? Are you able to remove ALL traces of Archos' stock Android implementation?
jerdog said:
When you delete something from the Archos OS (i.e. /system) and then reboot, does it show back up or is it permanently removed? Are you able to remove ALL traces of Archos' stock Android implementation?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes you are.
install SDE
boot up the shipped angstrom linux
mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 and remove the androidmerged.squasfs.secure file inside
reboot to recovery mode and "uninstall android kernel"
reboot
without the default archos android kernel it boots always to the custom kernel (default: angstrom linux, but can be replaced with any other OS)
now you have a gen8 device without any archos android os and can use for whatever you want it
if you want it back to normal: recovery mode -> reformat device & install archos android firmware
chulri said:
yes you are.
install SDE
boot up the shipped angstrom linux
mount /dev/mmcblk0p2 and remove the androidmerged.squasfs.secure file inside
reboot to recovery mode and "uninstall android kernel"
reboot
without the default archos android kernel it boots always to the custom kernel (default: angstrom linux, but can be replaced with any other OS)
now you have a gen8 device without any archos android os and can use for whatever you want it
if you want it back to normal: recovery mode -> reformat device & install archos android firmware
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Click to collapse
Aren't you just removing the kernel and putting your own in? The partition with the actual system still exists though, correct?
What it seems to me, is that Archos has given the ability to use your own kernel with their /system still in place - but this doesn't give the ability to install a completely vanilla system (ala AOSP and/or CM) or to strip out the bloatware and modify the existing frameworks....
I hate to repeat myself.. ( is my english really that bad? )
You DON'T replace the kernel, you install just another one (called custom kernel).
You CAN remove the archos' kernel (but you don't have to)
You CAN remove the archos' android filesystem (location: /dev/mmcblk0p2 -> androidmerged.squashfs.secure)
You have WRITE ACCESS to all flash devices (/dev/mmcblk[0-2])
When you install SDE it ships a vanilla angstrom linux, this has nothing to do with android and shows that you are ABLE TO INSTALL A COMPLETELY VANILLA SYSTEM (even side by side with archos' android if you want to)
chulri, I think you're missing the point. He wants the entire system opened up. Even though you can use SDE to write to any of the flash devices, can you use it to remove a single App from the existing android setup?
They (and I actually) are wanting a custom recoery (something ALA Clockworkmod would work fine for me), and have full access to the internal nand, so they can flash a completely custom ROM, or a pre-rooted factory rom, etc. They want this WITHOUT having to use SDE. With the squashfs secured like it is now, this makes it a bit more difficult to get what we're wanting... If we have a full system rom that's not secure like the existing one, then any app could be removed, upgraded, or themed however you want.
If you don't already own a rooted android phone, then I don't think you really understand the WHY of what they are asking for.
and again...
you can install whatever you want, and even if it is a customizied archos android
the squashfs is not encrypted, you can unpack, copy and replace it with an unsigned squashfs image or even another filesystem, install a custom kernel which ignores the signature (change one or two lines in initramfs.cpio.gz) and there you go...
why do you need another recovery image when you have SDE? it IS a recovery image..
chulri said:
and again...
you can install whatever you want, and even if it is a customizied archos android
the squashfs is not encrypted, you can unpack, copy and replace it with an unsigned squashfs image or even another filesystem, install a custom kernel which ignores the signature (change one or two lines in initramfs.cpio.gz) and there you go...
why do you need another recovery image when you have SDE? it IS a recovery image..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had thought the squashfs image was secured, which it's good to know it's not.
As for the custom recovery, it's more of a personal preference. Most people would rather have some sort of AOSP rom installed on their system, with none of the custom Archos stuff on it, no dual-booting, etc. And while it may be your opinion that it's not necessary, people want it. Being condescending whenever people request it or even ask about it doesn't help at all (all the , or is my english that bad, etc).
I use clockworkmod on my Incredible, and it's never once told me i had to have my device plugged into power to flash something, but I'm stuck at work right now with my Archos telling me that to flash my system with their SDE I have to have it plugged into the power adapter (even though I have 100% battery). That alone to me (again, TO ME) is justification for a seperate custom recovery...
after you have installed the sde you don't have to plug in power to flash custom kernels
anyway: only because some people want some own recovery image, go ahead, hack the sh!t out of gen8 and may brick it but for god sake don't tell the world you couldn't do the same with SDE and claim about the bad bad fail fail company not letting some stupid users brick their devices the ones who know how still can do whatever they want, with or without SDE. the ones who doesn't.. um.. nevermind
I gave my Dad my old blackstone when my Desore turned up.
He has winged that he can't get the marketplace and about all those general WinMo issues that people have (it dead etc)
I can't find a clear message on the status of NANDROID for blackstone.
TIAD8s site has NAND versions that are missing bluetooth or other funcitons
It appears there are basic functions that are lost according which kernal is being run.
I'm willing to do one completely convoluted install just to get Froyo style on my dads phone but only once. I never have trouble with new flashing procedures (slow and steady wins the race) but I don't want to hand him back the phone broken especially as he uses hands free in the car
So - can anyone say categorically that a NAND version work fully?
Categorically: Not yet. Wondering if ever...
Forget it...
Think Tiad8 only has test team working on a NAND build anyway?
Not seen it in action yet
Kernals?! ....
I find deliberate typos (NOT TEXT SPEAK) can get people to engage.
olly230 said:
I find deliberate typos (NOT TEXT SPEAK) can get people to engage.
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Is that also why you called it a "Desore" instead of Desire?
lol, you made a typo or you just didn't know. No need to try and rationalize it .
t8 let people wait and wait.
though it's good to try, we don't know whether he really works on it as he start many threads to other device besieds HD.
arrrghhh said:
Is that also why you called it a "Desore" instead of Desire?
lol, you made a typo or you just didn't know. No need to try and rationalize it .
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Click to collapse
Desore was a proper typo, I'll put my hands up to that
Tiad8's just kidding us, it will send to test team files from NVIDIA Tegra device. Only RUU_signed is working, but I think it's my modded LK Bootloader from Rhodium (with modified mtype). Something's wrong with this nand.
I have runned this but touchscreen not working properly and I don't have GSM.
MietasSR said:
Tiad8's just kidding us, it will send to test team files from NVIDIA Tegra device. Only RUU_signed is working, but I think it's my modded LK Bootloader from Rhodium (with modified mtype). Something's wrong with this nand.
I have runned this but touchscreen not working properly and I don't have GSM.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I thought you were part of his developer team because he now give credits to you for your ruu and recovery.img (at last he ist starting to do this: giving credits) in the NAND download post.
With your post here I had to smile a little: now your name is connected to the "null nands" for many consumers in tiad8's forum. Even I thought you're part of it now and that's why I tried the build yesterday again: Boot partition to small and Kernel not working.
I think now it's getting to the critical point in the NAND experiments: correct or good partition sizes for NAND (some members there startet to change partition values in the image files with a hex editor) and more important: building a working kernel with modules for Blackstone NAND.
Until now all experiments reached a few preparing goals: getting a working .nbh for starting into fastboot, getting a recovery.img for a working CWM etc.
But now (if I am completely wrong please correct me, I really want to know) you have to change partition and ram parameters in clk and hope you will spare the protected parts.
And after that: Kernel and Modules for Blackstone on Nand. I am starting to believe here would be the real point for developers.
I started to build Kernel and Modules, a Boot Environment (initrdgz) from git and packed them with changed parameters in a Tinboot-Package. I can flash with the .nbh, I can boot, I got a lot of errors in init first, but I succeeded in running and loading the kernel, I get access to the changed mtd partitions etc. Debugging on Blackstone with Echo "" ist quite funny.
I got stuck when I tried to cp files from SD card to the /system partition (which is mounted r/w) - I can cp files from / to /system anyway. Big ?? for me. But I like to play with it a little more, because I learned a lot.
ThaiDai said:
I thought you were part of his developer team because he now give credits to you for your ruu and recovery.img (at last he ist starting to do this: giving credits) in the NAND download post..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Me Too!! Does this mean you are working on different things?
Can you dual boot or any other way to have 2 different roms installed at the same time,so i can switch back and forth?Like windows either at boot or logging in and out of 2 different desktops.
Maybe find a way to split the partitions.Any suggestions would be great.
Duel= 2 roms fighting. Make it dual. Thought it was funny, no malice intended.
lol - duel - dual...
It would be interesting if that was possible. There would have to be another program in there to act as the buffer between both OS's though - that would take control of the start-up, hold on a page that has both options and then would boot the option you want.
Not sure if that's possible since some files are right on the root and in order to have an OS work it can't have files in the same directory - they would just overwrite each other.
But, I too, have wondered if it would ever happen. Be a great way to test new ROM's if you didn't always have to overwrite the existing ROM but rather, you could place a new ROM in a special directory and then run it from that - or partition the internal memory with the new partition available to boot from and store.
partition the internal memory with the new partition available to boot from and store.
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Click to collapse
Thats exactly what i was thinking,partition the system os,i rebuild computers and a little system modding in windows,but this is a linux based os,so it would be a little odd for me.I'm gonna look into this a little more.
You may try to contact the guys who developed boot manager. www.init2winitapps.com they have a listing of supported devices and a request form. Works on the thunderbolt 5 slots for 5 roms, I'm unsure how difficult it would be to add support for the iconia.
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App
ibsk8 said:
You may try to contact the guys who developed boot manager. www.init2winitapps.com they have a listing of supported devices and a request form. Works on the thunderbolt 5 slots for 5 roms, I'm unsure how difficult it would be to add support for the iconia.
Sent from my A500 using XDA Premium App
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Click to collapse
Thanks,i submitted the idea,lets see if they will run with it,hopefully they will find interest.
Hello Diabblo,
Any update on that?
I think the idea of dual boot (or 5al boot) is just fantastic!
I have beside my iconia a501 a poor old zt180s and it can triple boot on android, ubuntu and WinCE!
Best,
Inji.
inji75 said:
Hello Diabblo,
Any update on that?
I think the idea of dual boot (or 5al boot) is just fantastic!
I have beside my iconia a501 a poor old zt180s and it can triple boot on android, ubuntu and WinCE!
Best,
Inji.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im guessing that device has a open non encrypted boot loader. The Iconia was encrypted at birth with the 3.2 push they tightened security even more from whqt I have read.So this is likely never happening unless acer changes ttjere boot loader policy.not likely to happen.
hope this helps you understand more of this issue.
I'm dual-booting my A500 right now with ICS and Ubuntu. The method for dual-booting is a replacement recovery.img which contains a Linux kernel and acts as a bootloader for Linux. Ubuntu itself runs from a rootfs.img on the internal storage (there's also recovery.img's available to run from external SD too). If I want to run Android, I just boot my tab normally. When I wanna run Ubuntu, I hold vol+ as I'm turning it on to force the modded recovery to load. It's a pretty cool setup more info in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=1158260
Dear Erica Renee and Bloodflame,
Thanks a lot for your answers. Ok, I got it with the encrypted bootloader.
Will try the method described by Bloodflame.
Actually, since I got these tablets my main use of them is flashing new ROMs... I don't really have the use of new ROMs but I think it's so exciting!
Cheers,
Inji.
I don't believe the encryption is the problem.
The current boot loader is available unencrypted in update packages if anyone want to have a look at it.
Replacing the boot loader on the device is done as part of a down grade procedure described elsewhere on this forum.
So unless I'm missing something, the problem is more likely time and interest. Someone need to care enough about it and have the time to make some other boot loader work. Or patch Acer's. Either way it is likely to require quite a bit of time and patience.
So let me see if I have this correct. Acer's hardware bios code is 'locked down' enough to keep the average code manipulator out? A custom boot loader needs to be dev'd that can communicate correctly to be able to handle Android recovery and a linux/android boot screen etc. ? Could someone elaborate more blatantly if I am incorrect...