Database Users

[Q] I/O Question

Hi I've read some where in this forum that the galaxy S has some I/O problems which are leading to the frequent lags that the phone experiences
Frankly I do not know what I/O is but my question is whether I/O problem is a hardware or software problem. If it is software then fair and well, I'll wait for samsung to ooptimize the software
I have noticed that the benchmark software (Quadrant) runs relatively smoothly all the tests except the I/O test at which it stops for a while before moving to the next test. I dont know if this relates to the I/O problem.
Thanks for your answers

RADLOUNI said:
Hi I've read some where in this forum that the galaxy S has some I/O problems which are leading to the frequent lags that the phone experiences
Frankly I do not know what I/O is but my question is whether I/O problem is a hardware or software problem. If it is software then fair and well, I'll wait for samsung to ooptimize the software
I have noticed that the benchmark software (Quadrant) runs relatively smoothly all the tests except the I/O test at which it stops for a while before moving to the next test. I dont know if this relates to the I/O problem.
Thanks for your answers
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Theres still no solid proof that its a software issue.

****
EarlZ said:
Theres still no solid proof that its a software issue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
****...............then you're saying its hardware ??????

He is not saying its hardware, just that there is no solid proof that its software.
However, based on the amount of working fixes, and reports of great improvements using Froyo I would put money on it being software related.
In fact...I am!
I am ordering a SGS in 3 days when my contract is up for renewal.

Actually, I think everyone's overlooking another obvious possible source of lag: clock-scaling for power conservation. If a phone slows down to 200MHz when it thinks it's inactive, and won't speed up until it sees evidence of activity lasting for 400ms, well... that's 400ms of lag you wouldn't get if the phone were running full-bore 1GHz all the time.
There's even an easy way to test the theory (on a rooted phone, at least) -- take two otherwise-identical phones, fully-charged, root one (while keeping the same rom), then install SetCPU and lock it into 'performance' mode so the phone can't slow down.
If the one locked at 100% CPU speed doesn't lag, and the one that's allowed to slow down to prolong the battery life does... well... there's the answer.
I mention this because I just experienced the night-and-day difference between the CDMA Hero's default power/speed (528MHz max, going down to 250MHz or less when "inactive") and with it locked to 712MHz in performance mode. Pretty much all of my lag problems vanished instantly when I locked it to performance mode. I have a hunch right now that perceived lagginess is almost entirely due to cpu scaling (particularly the time it takes to scale back up, and the criteria used for doing it).

Makes Sense
bitbang3r said:
Actually, I think everyone's overlooking another obvious possible source of lag: clock-scaling for power conservation. If a phone slows down to 200MHz when it thinks it's inactive, and won't speed up until it sees evidence of activity lasting for 400ms, well... that's 400ms of lag you wouldn't get if the phone were running full-bore 1GHz all the time.
There's even an easy way to test the theory (on a rooted phone, at least) -- take two otherwise-identical phones, fully-charged, root one (while keeping the same rom), then install SetCPU and lock it into 'performance' mode so the phone can't slow down.
If the one locked at 100% CPU speed doesn't lag, and the one that's allowed to slow down to prolong the battery life does... well... there's the answer.
I mention this because I just experienced the night-and-day difference between the CDMA Hero's default power/speed (528MHz max, going down to 250MHz or less when "inactive") and with it locked to 712MHz in performance mode. Pretty much all of my lag problems vanished instantly when I locked it to performance mode. I have a hunch right now that perceived lagginess is almost entirely due to cpu scaling (particularly the time it takes to scale back up, and the criteria used for doing it).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very interesting theory, and it makes sense to be frank.
Are there any software out there that would enable me to lock the CPU speed to 1 GHz. I am willing to try this

RADLOUNI said:
Very interesting theory, and it makes sense to be frank.
Are there any software out there that would enable me to lock the CPU speed to 1 GHz. I am willing to try this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The guy just told you, root phone and install "Setcpu". That's the only way.

Looking at the benchmarks and the various fixes implemented I tend to lean towards the opinion that it may be hardware related.
hxxp://twitter.com/koush/status/20321413798
I'm not familiar enough with the internals of the phone. If there is faster flash memory located on the phone, then a repartition may be enough to fix the device. If not, then I'm afraid we may be stuck with some lag.

Would anyone be so kind as to explain what I/O is and why the setup in the SGS causes lagging while other android phones with similar specs don't seem to suffer from the same problems?
Thanks in advance

RADLOUNI said:
Very interesting theory, and it makes sense to be frank.
Are there any software out there that would enable me to lock the CPU speed to 1 GHz. I am willing to try this
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not very interesting, as it's closer to the truth than you think.
think about it, Android OS is really Linux, the SGS is a miniature PC with phone capability.
everything else aside for the phone part, works just like a PC running Linux.
even on a Windows PC the Duo Core or Quad Core machines that has the Power Saving option enable behaves the same, when they are on iddle mode they run at 50% CPU power or less, and it takes them a fraction of a sec to speed back up, people that don't like that tiny lag, they always set the PC on performance mode, or always on, or simply not install the power saving software that comes with the PC.
we can do the same on the SGS phones, the only downside is that your battery will be out of juice faster than you think.
not to mention the Screen is the most power hungry part in the phone, just like most other phones with large LCD displays

did the install and...
Hi
I just did the install of setcpu and i will monitor the device for sometime before i give some feedback. My initiall impression is that the performance got better.
i set the software to performance mode and kept the limits between 100Mhz and 1000Mhz
i will also try to set the min limit to 800Mhz

Actually, that reminds me... the other thing I've seen cited a lot for causing lag is the way Android manages memory by terminating apps instead of using a swapfile. This can cause lag, because it simply takes time to call onPause()/onStop() and wait for it to finish, compared to unceremoniously just suspending the app and dumping a few megs to the microSD card.
Apparently, manufacturers don't use swapfile because most/all Android phones ship with class 2 microSD flash, in which case it would hurt performance more than it helped.
With that in mind, I'd say the following two things should be tried:
1) Buy a class 6 (or better) microSD card, format a swap partition, and use a rom on a rooted phone that supports it. For the record, swap with class 2 would be detrimental; swap with class 4 would be of minimal benefit; swap with class 6 is a big improvement; class 8 basically doesn't exist, and class 10 in real-world use -- with small, scattered files and random read-writes -- is only a little bit faster than class 6, because at that point the time it takes to deal with protocol matters becomes huge relative to the time it takes to actually DO the flash write (the SD card SPI and 4-bit protocols are *really* ugly, and overwhelmingly optimized for sequential reading and writing of bulk data. The moment you start doing random-access rewrites, their performance -- regardless of class -- goes to hell. That's part of the reason why pro gear still tends to use CompactFlash... it still has to deal with flash a page at a time, but it can access arbitrary tiny chunks of data scattered all over the place a lot faster and with a lot less ceremony than (micro)SD).
2) Install SetCPU and lock the CPU to max speed in "performance" mode.
SetCPU alone seemed to make the biggest difference with regard to keyboard input lag. My guess is that Android (or HTC's modifications for the Hero, Evo, etc... and quite possibly Samsung's too) slow the phone WAY down whenever an input area is displayed, on the theory that "most" apps at that point are just displaying the picture of a keyboard and waiting for the user to mash the screen with his finger. Without SetCPU, Graffiti is almost unusable and makes weird errors. With SetCPU locked to performance mode, Graffiti is almost flawless. It's literally a night-and-day difference.

Kpkpkpkp said:
Would anyone be so kind as to explain what I/O is and why the setup in the SGS causes lagging while other android phones with similar specs don't seem to suffer from the same problems?
Thanks in advance
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Input/Output -data communication to/from the phone and other devices/networks
It's like when you are writing information to the system that comes from downloads, so whether you are syncing files, downloading from the marketplace or uploading...you are doing I/O....
"In computing, input/output, or I/O, refers to the communication between an information processing system (such as a computer), and the outside world possibly a human, or another information processing system. Inputs are the signals or data received by the system, and outputs are the signals or data sent from it. "
Wiki

bitbang3r said:
Actually, that reminds me... the other thing I've seen cited a lot for causing lag is the way Android manages memory by terminating apps instead of using a swapfile. This can cause lag, because it simply takes time to call onPause()/onStop() and wait for it to finish, compared to unceremoniously just suspending the app and dumping a few megs to the microSD card.
Apparently, manufacturers don't use swapfile because most/all Android phones ship with class 2 microSD flash, in which case it would hurt performance more than it helped.
With that in mind, I'd say the following two things should be tried:
1) Buy a class 6 (or better) microSD card, format a swap partition, and use a rom on a rooted phone that supports it. For the record, swap with class 2 would be detrimental; swap with class 4 would be of minimal benefit; swap with class 6 is a big improvement; class 8 basically doesn't exist, and class 10 in real-world use -- with small, scattered files and random read-writes -- is only a little bit faster than class 6, because at that point the time it takes to deal with protocol matters becomes huge relative to the time it takes to actually DO the flash write (the SD card SPI and 4-bit protocols are *really* ugly, and overwhelmingly optimized for sequential reading and writing of bulk data. The moment you start doing random-access rewrites, their performance -- regardless of class -- goes to hell. That's part of the reason why pro gear still tends to use CompactFlash... it still has to deal with flash a page at a time, but it can access arbitrary tiny chunks of data scattered all over the place a lot faster and with a lot less ceremony than (micro)SD).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To ask a question and summarize, if you were given a choice of any class card to put in your phone you'd chose a class 6 because of the performance benefit here? Or would you maybe go with a higher class because it'd get greater benefits in other areas? Thanks for the help, again, don't consider money as a factor for the main issue, just trying to learn a bit.

result
bitbang3r said:
Actually, that reminds me... the other thing I've seen cited a lot for causing lag is the way Android manages memory by terminating apps instead of using a swapfile. This can cause lag, because it simply takes time to call onPause()/onStop() and wait for it to finish, compared to unceremoniously just suspending the app and dumping a few megs to the microSD card.
Apparently, manufacturers don't use swapfile because most/all Android phones ship with class 2 microSD flash, in which case it would hurt performance more than it helped.
With that in mind, I'd say the following two things should be tried:
1) Buy a class 6 (or better) microSD card, format a swap partition, and use a rom on a rooted phone that supports it. For the record, swap with class 2 would be detrimental; swap with class 4 would be of minimal benefit; swap with class 6 is a big improvement; class 8 basically doesn't exist, and class 10 in real-world use -- with small, scattered files and random read-writes -- is only a little bit faster than class 6, because at that point the time it takes to deal with protocol matters becomes huge relative to the time it takes to actually DO the flash write (the SD card SPI and 4-bit protocols are *really* ugly, and overwhelmingly optimized for sequential reading and writing of bulk data. The moment you start doing random-access rewrites, their performance -- regardless of class -- goes to hell. That's part of the reason why pro gear still tends to use CompactFlash... it still has to deal with flash a page at a time, but it can access arbitrary tiny chunks of data scattered all over the place a lot faster and with a lot less ceremony than (micro)SD).
2) Install SetCPU and lock the CPU to max speed in "performance" mode.
SetCPU alone seemed to make the biggest difference with regard to keyboard input lag. My guess is that Android (or HTC's modifications for the Hero, Evo, etc... and quite possibly Samsung's too) slow the phone WAY down whenever an input area is displayed, on the theory that "most" apps at that point are just displaying the picture of a keyboard and waiting for the user to mash the screen with his finger. Without SetCPU, Graffiti is almost unusable and makes weird errors. With SetCPU locked to performance mode, Graffiti is almost flawless. It's literally a night-and-day difference.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
HI I tried setCPU at performance mode , and i have to say that it improved the perofrmance A BIT. But i would not say that much has improved.
I guess that the class6 SD card option has more bearing on this issue than CPU speed scaling

RADLOUNI said:
HI I tried setCPU at performance mode , and i have to say that it improved the perofrmance A BIT. But i would not say that much has improved.
I guess that the class6 SD card option has more bearing on this issue than CPU speed scaling
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Does the SD card lag fix option REQUIRE a class 6 card? That limits the size a bit, doesn't it? What is the biggest class 6 card available?

borchgrevink said:
Does the SD card lag fix option REQUIRE a class 6 card? That limits the size a bit, doesn't it? What is the biggest class 6 card available?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
16GB
no, it does not need to be Class 6, it depends on the SD card build quality, some Class 2 performs as good as a Class 6
but it's a luck of the draw, if you have a known good Class 2 or Class 4 microSD card, then use it, no need to buy a new one
i suggest you to test the speed of the SD card before you do the mimocan thing
use this app, it's pretty accurate
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=739083

The CPU theory doesn't really explain why symlinking the /dbdata/data folder to /data/data eliminates lag.
hxxp://android.modaco.com/content/samsung-galaxy-s-s-modaco-com/312298/got-the-stalling-problem-rooted-try-this/

It also seems that a 32gb class2 SanDisk card is OK.
http://android.modaco.com/content/s...rt-microsd-cards-that-work-with-mimocans-fix/

borchgrevink said:
It also seems that a 32gb class2 SanDisk card is OK.
http://android.modaco.com/content/s...rt-microsd-cards-that-work-with-mimocans-fix/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
kinda pricey at the moment, aprox $135 for real non fake ones

Is a Class2 SD card sufficient for running Android?

Hi all,
I'm going to finally have some spare time this weekend and might even get to have a mess around with Android on my HD2 if I get lucky! My concern is that I have a 16GB Class2 microSD in my Leo and while looking at HD2 stuff on ebay came across this.
The seller states that Android won't run (properly?) on his 16gb Class2 and includes a Class6 8gb card aswell for this purpose.
What's everyone's experience with running Android on a slower card? From looking around I've seen people saying 'there isn't much difference' for most things but a lot of contridictions for others.
Thanks gang!

I have no issues with my Android build currently, and it's on a 4gb Class 2 SD card.
It does help having a faster one, but It's not the end of the world.
Phil

Have been testing out froyostone sense build on a 2gb class 2 card and it's like lightening So yes, would format first though otherwise you will get lag.

Cheers - yep I won't forget to format, been reading the threads while working this week... taken in loads of info, just need to find the time to actually get it rolling

I was wondering the same thing. I installed froyostone 08.07.2010 using miri Rom on stock radio on a friends hd2 and it freezes and comes back to life very often. Would a higher class sdcard solve his problem?

I think they guy on eBay is talking rubbish. I run darkstone's 2.2 perfectly well on a 16GB Class 2. A Class 4 would probably help a little bit, but I'm not that fussed really.
I'd be more concerned about getting dodgy copies of Transformers from them!!

murdaralph said:
I was wondering the same thing. I installed froyostone 08.07.2010 using miri Rom on stock radio on a friends hd2 and it freezes and comes back to life very often. Would a higher class sdcard solve his problem?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The whole OS and all animations etc, or just touch screen response?
If its the touch screen, that's a known issue and will be addressed in due course.
Phil

It's in german, but i guess u may figure it out.
h**p://***.chip.de/bestenlisten/Bestenliste-microSD-Karten--index/detail/id/867/

I have a kingston class 2 , not working.

qingcai said:
I have a kingston class 2 , not working.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
A Little more information would be useful, what's not working about it? How's it formatted? Has it even been formatted and then had a new build copied to it?
Phil

i never had issues with a class 2 before... no SOD or anything... although after switching to class 4, there is noticeable speed. now in class 10, a lot faster. but no real issues in class 2 except a tad slower (but decent speed nonetheless)

I use the 16gb class 2 card and its quick with decent quadrant tests. I think its because android loads into ram (please correct me if I am wrong, ill search for this later). I think there are apps that read or write to folders on the SD card that would gain from speed of a class 6 or 10 card and if I am right about loading to ram the boot up time could receive a benefit.
Personally I am looking to get one just to access media faster and for taking pics and vids as there is a write delay that's typical with all phones. If it helps android in its current state the cool but I'm not in a rush. Development here have made great strides in making android snappy and android is an awesome is as it is for handling background tasks. Much to the credit of Linux but I find android to be a faster evolution then most mobile oses. Much to the credit of being open source and encourage community development. Nothing here is illegal but maybe some grey areas in closed source distributing which cyanogen had an interesting situation that was resolved quickly with Google's assistance.
But I am off topic now. Yes it would help with some things but don't break the piggy bank over it.
Hope my thoughts are helpful. It would be better to get feedback from those that have done it and get before and after boot, quad, and market download responsiveness tests. I may have a class 6 8gb card somewhere I can test later tonight. I would do fresh sdformatter formats with nothing but android on the card to get a somewhat standard benchmark.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App

Mine is 16gb class 2, with the latest fullram zimage, i score 29.2fps in neocore test
and can play sparta! very smooth, also the asphalt 5

kerman19 said:
The whole OS and all animations etc, or just touch screen response?
If its the touch screen, that's a known issue and will be addressed in due course.
Phil
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
the touch screen. The SD card was quick formatted. Would that make a difference in the builds performance ?

I'm using a Kingston class 2, but it performs with 5,5MBs writing speed when used in a computer slot, so in practice its a class 5,5. Works great! Froyostone sense v1

pappadj said:
I use the 16gb class 2 card and its quick with decent quadrant tests. I think its because android loads into ram (please correct me if I am wrong, ill search for this later). I think there are apps that read or write to folders on the SD card that would gain from speed of a class 6 or 10 card and if I am right about loading to ram the boot up time could receive a benefit.
Personally I am looking to get one just to access media faster and for taking pics and vids as there is a write delay that's typical with all phones. If it helps android in its current state the cool but I'm not in a rush. Development here have made great strides in making android snappy and android is an awesome is as it is for handling background tasks. Much to the credit of Linux but I find android to be a faster evolution then most mobile oses. Much to the credit of being open source and encourage community development. Nothing here is illegal but maybe some grey areas in closed source distributing which cyanogen had an interesting situation that was resolved quickly with Google's assistance.
But I am off topic now. Yes it would help with some things but don't break the piggy bank over it.
Hope my thoughts are helpful. It would be better to get feedback from those that have done it and get before and after boot, quad, and market download responsiveness tests. I may have a class 6 8gb card somewhere I can test later tonight. I would do fresh sdformatter formats with nothing but android on the card to get a somewhat standard benchmark.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You have experience with your G1, the class 6 I use on mine makes definite difference when running apps from your sd card. I've been alternating using my 16 GB Class 2 and my 8 GB Class 6 in my HD2 but I haven't seen any speed difference with android so I believe that it runs on the internal ram.

i think class 2 is enough

murdaralph said:
the touch screen. The SD card was quick formatted. Would that make a difference in the builds performance ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Touch Screen lag/freezing is a known issue right now and doesn't relate to the SD card.
It's being worked on.
Phil

I have a class 2 16GB sandisk drive and score 1578 in quadrant standard, that said i usually get write speeds of around 6MB/sec on my computer

i personally think it helps a bit ( i ws previously running Android off the 16GB class 2 card the HD2 came with) but experienced some lag when scrolling.
That said, it was an early build of Android so it was probably just that.
The thing is, 8GB class6 cards are relatively cheap to buy (i picked up an A-DATA 8GB class 6 for $21 canadian at CanadaComputers)
so..why not upgrade to the class6 card? I'm sure it wouldn't hurt and no matter what you'll experience at least have SOME sort of performance gain in other aspects (music, pictures, file managers, etc)

Q: what is biggest difference from SD to NAND?

i'm quite happily running Android from my SD card. Thinking about going down the NAND road
but the question is...is it worth it? Will i notice a big change or should i just stay as it is?
Thanks

No, you will most likely not.
I still recommend doing it if you don't use WinMo, because there sure are advantages but don't expect miracles.

Personally, I've found battery life better with all the NAND builds I've tried - probably about 50% better. I assume this is because it takes more power to read/write to/from the SD card all the time.
This is obviously just my personal experience though.

Well, you will get some better battery life, as well it will be smoother.
If you don't use WinMo, I'd recommend it.
Just my personal experience.

Battery life simply cannot be compared to SD versions. It's much better in nand. Also file transfer works as it should.
Sent from my HD2 using XDA App

You can also connect to the phone in debugging mode, with NAND, which I never could using SD builds.
Not much of a deal to most people, but for anyone interested in developing for Android it's a BIG deal!

johncmolyneux said:
Personally, I've found battery life better with all the NAND builds I've tried - probably about 50% better. I assume this is because it takes more power to read/write to/from the SD card all the time.
This is obviously just my personal experience though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some people have had drastic improvements because they used 'bad' SD cards (as in badly compatible with Android, not 'bad' in se). If you compare the battery life of an SD build with a proper card, NAND really doesn't give much more juice, simply because the major part of battery consumption is due to hardware stuff such as screen, CPU, ...

The biggest difference for me is battery life aswell, as others have already stated.
I get 2-4mA in standby on most builds

StephanV said:
Some people have had drastic improvements because they used 'bad' SD cards (as in badly compatible with Android, not 'bad' in se). If you compare the battery life of an SD build with a proper card, NAND really doesn't give much more juice, simply because the major part of battery consumption is due to hardware stuff such as screen, CPU, ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Like I said to OP, it was just my personal experience. I was using a SanDisk 8GB Class 6 card that I've had 0 issues with, so I could only put the battery life difference down to r/w times. It's apparent in other things as well, like when you bring up the application list in settings. It used to take a good 5-10 seconds to get the icons for all the apps, but now it's less than a second.
It's only little things like that that I really notice. Overall performance doesn't seem much better.

Hey nothing personal man, I was just informing you why you experienced this drastic improvement. Like I said, with a bad card I didn't mean bad as in not good, but just not well compatible with Android on SD - no one really had an explanation as to why certain cards performed better than others, and there wasn't a predictable pattern either. The most expensive cards could very well be the worst compatible.

StephanV said:
Some people have had drastic improvements because they used 'bad' SD cards (as in badly compatible with Android, not 'bad' in se). If you compare the battery life of an SD build with a proper card, NAND really doesn't give much more juice, simply because the major part of battery consumption is due to hardware stuff such as screen, CPU, ...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is true... I just went back to using SD builds because I'm dual-booting with wp7, and battery life on my sd builds are pretty much the same for me. I get as low as 3ma on standby with my jdms and hd2one sd builds. I'm using a class 2 sandisk, which seems to have the best random access speed out of all the sd cards I tested, and has a very low power consumption. For anyone buying a new card to run wp7 or to run android off of, I would definitely suggest a class 2 sandisk over any other class or brand of card. Quality class 2 cards generally have better battery life and better random access speeds (which is what matters the most for running an OS off the card) than higher class cards, which are made to have higher sequential write speeds.

StephanV said:
Hey nothing personal man
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
???
I know mate! If I sounded defensive, then I shouldn't have. I was just responding to what you said
Sorry if I came across wrong.

[Q] SD Built Performance compared to Native Android Phones / Benchmarks?

Hey guys,
currently i am on my Samsung Galaxy S but i ogle with WP7 . How is the performance going on with a Android built on a SD Card? Maybe even a Class10 one. Is it comparable with a native android phone like Galaxy S?
Are there some benchmarks (within android like Quadrant etc..)?
Thx for Infos in regard!
Cheers

I'd recommend a good quality class 4 microsd card like sandisk to run android off of... higher class SD cards tend to have slower random access speeds, which is more important than sequential read/write speeds if you're gonna run an operating system from it. I use a 32gb class 4 sandisk and have it partitioned to dual boot windows phone 7.5 and android, and it runs android as smooth as my brothers galaxy s. I'm currently running ICS without any major issues... only 5mAh battery drain on standby, too.
Sent from my NexusHD2 using xda premium

Thx for your reply ! Good hint with the lower sd class. So there are elswhere no limitations in using ICS? GPS / Calling works flawlessly? I read the threads but i was looking for a subjective opinion of someone. So good to hear that your brother owns a galaxy s and its comparable in your opinion ;-) Could you run a Quadrant? I read several posts with scores from low like 900 to even bashing a galaxy s. I know benchs are not equal to performance, but i would be interested.
Do you experience any lags in using a SD built like descriped in some posts? I read alot about "wakeup lag" for example :/

tomatenjungee said:
Thx for your reply ! Good hint with the lower sd class. So there are elswhere no limitations in using ICS? GPS / Calling works flawlessly? I read the threads but i was looking for a subjective opinion of someone. So good to hear that your brother owns a galaxy s and its comparable in your opinion ;-) Could you run a Quadrant? I read several posts with scores from low like 900 to even bashing a galaxy s. I know benchs are not equal to performance, but i would be interested.
Do you experience any lags in using a SD built like descriped in some posts? I read alot about "wakeup lag" for example :/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
In terms of features everything works flawlessly but you will inevitably get wakeup lag with SD builds unfortunately As for quadrants, I used to get easily over 1500 with ACA and some of MCCM's builds

Ok thx great support here @hd2 base really.
So except wakeup lag its a fully working android from a sd. Found this useful post about the lag: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12108550&postcount=18
If i buy a HD2 maybe i should look out for a "newer" Device.
Honestly i am a little interested in WP7 and like to link it with my xbox.
Would you buy a HD2 now? Its the only phone with WP7 / Android dualboot am i right?

tomatenjungee said:
Ok thx great support here @hd2 base really.
So except wakeup lag its a fully working android from a sd. Found this useful post about the lag: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=12108550&postcount=18
If i buy a HD2 maybe i should look out for a "newer" Device.
Honestly i am a little interested in WP7 and like to link it with my xbox.
Would you buy a HD2 now? Its the only phone with WP7 / Android dualboot am i right?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I might also try WP7 at some point, it's such a sleek OS Yes, as far as I know the HD2 is the only phone with the capability to dual boot Android and WP7, but it's possible that soon Android may work on WP7 native devices. On the portal look at the threads about Haret and being able to run WM6.5 on WP7, all seems to be quite interesting right now.
I would say that it's worth buying a HD2 if it's cheap but there are some things which simply aren't up to standard with other newer devices (despite what people say) such as the fact that the multitouch is very glitchy (due to the original WM6.5 OS the screen was outdated, it only supports 2 fingers and does even that very badly), the camera isn't great, the GPU is quite slow for HD games, sometimes the 576 Mb of RAM isn't sufficient (with just a few background apps running on a CM7 build I get around 200Mb free RAM, but if you go for Sense you'll be luck to get over 100Mb) and so on. I guess if you can get some sort of trade for your SGS for an HD2 then go for it, or if you can get yourself an HD2 at a low price, but if you think there are better out there go for a WP7 phone and hope for the best

differences in running micro sd class 6 and 10

Hello,
currently, im running a class 6 micro sd card in my hd2. Now, if i replace the card with a class 10, is there a boost i would 'feel'? Or is there no real difference in performance, only on paper?

Normally, no. You'll feel difference only when copying very big files over long time(say large movie over card reader as HD2 hardware bandwith is also limited). For normal, everyday use SD 4 or 6 class is the best choice.

retsam88 said:
Normally, no. You'll feel difference only when copying very big files over long time(say large movie over card reader as HD2 hardware bandwith is also limited). For normal, everyday use SD 4 or 6 class is the best choice.
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I'm using a 32GB Class 4 SanDisk (partitioned into two 16GB chunks) for my WP7.5 and Android. SD Android builds do tend to seem laggy at times.... is this expected?

abdelazeez said:
I'm using a 32GB Class 4 SanDisk (partitioned into two 16GB chunks) for my WP7.5 and Android. SD Android builds do tend to seem laggy at times.... is this expected?
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Click to collapse
Yes. Some SD builds are faster than others, though NAND Android is always superior to SD builds.
Also keep in mind overall Android speed is determined by random access, not sequential(micro SD class!) write/read.

in my experience, the class label placed by the manufacturer is misleading.
the class rating doesn't really talk about maximum speed. instead, it talks about the minimum guaranteed speed. it is best to read benchmarks before you go for a particular sd card.
for example, i used an 8GB sandisk class 2. this means that the card can at least demonstrate class 2 performance. in practice, it was FAST!!! gave about 10+MB read speed and about 7+MB write speed.
then i got a 32GB kingston class 4. this means that the card can at least demonstrate class 4 performance. in practice, it was slower than my previous 8GB sandisk. got about 10+MB read speed and about 3+MB write speed.
so, in conclusion, no one can reliably tell you if a particular card model will feel faster. like others have mentioned, there are already complications like differences in nand and sd and even differences between two seemingly similar nand builds, for example. when we talk about comparisons and observations that YOU will perceive as a result of your purchase, we are really talking about what improvements (or lack of) you will feel in comparison to your existing card. and all we can tell about your existing card or the one you intend to get is the misleading class label on the card.

sd nand
Thx for the info guys!
NAND Android is always superior to SD builds
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Which leads me to another question...
Does anybody know numbers about the performance differences between SD and NAND builds? SD builds differ in speed, retsam88 already said that, but are there some rough numbers?
Are there devices which are known for fast/slow NANDs (or other significant characteristics)? Or are the NANDs identical in every device? Maybe a link?
Sorry for asking stupid questions but I'm pretty new to the customROM-stuff and also want to get some technical background knowledge before diving in in october with the studies .... again, thanks in advance!

Since I had my HD2 like months ago I was always using SD-Roms cause their easy to use via MagLdr & I thought the speed was OK but as you go on using it it becomes laggy...
then I tried an AOKP NAND & there was a significant difference in speed, so now i'm stuck in using NAND Roms., BTW my SD card was a Class 10 type :silly:

moson said:
Thx for the info guys!
Which leads me to another question...
Does anybody know numbers about the performance differences between SD and NAND builds? SD builds differ in speed, retsam88 already said that, but are there some rough numbers?
Are there devices which are known for fast/slow NANDs (or other significant characteristics)? Or are the NANDs identical in every device? Maybe a link?
Sorry for asking stupid questions but I'm pretty new to the customROM-stuff and also want to get some technical background knowledge before diving in in october with the studies .... again, thanks in advance!
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Those are very interesting questions must say
As for differences, I'll give you my personal observations:
-Booting up system is both fast on SD and NAND builds.
-Stability is superior on NAND(because SD can corrupt badly if used incorrectly)
-Installing apps is way faster on NAND(say, 15-60sec improvement)
-NAND got limited write/read cycles(a lot though) so SD builds keeps HD2 healthy longer.
-games running on NAND android seems to be bit faster(depends, sometimes 1-3FPS more, sometimes hell of a lot 20FPS+)
As for NAND speeds, HD2 was manufactured by mass scale, so NAND speeds seems to be relative similar with every device. With microSD you got many manufacturers, big companies, small companies, fake companies so results differ a lot. Also SD cards tend to get replaced faster.
Also feel free to ask further questions.

more questions
Cool! Thanks again for sharing your knowledge
retsam88 said:
As for NAND speeds, HD2 was manufactured by mass scale, so NAND speeds seems to be relative similar with every device.
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I meant the speed differences between a HD2 and a Desire for example, or HTC and Samsung in general.
NAND got limited write/read cycles(a lot though) so SD builds keeps HD2 healthy longer.
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SD cards also have limited cycles, don't they?
Also feel free to ask further questions.
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awww yeeeah, prepare
I hope it's ok, also with an eye on the moderators, coz the thread title is pretty misleading now
Is there a way to replace the NAND?
If so, how much does it cost and can you replace it yourself?
Are there some smartphones/tablets without NANDs?
Which phones are known for having big/small internal storage space?
Which one is more resistant against magnetic influences: NAND or SD?
Beside microSD, are there any more relevant card types used in mobile devices?
If you look towards future, any changes (especially hardware) coming soon? like card type changes, notably increased NAND speed/storage space/
A lot of questions I know, just curious, if you guys know answers, don't hesitate to post ))
and thanks again!

moson said:
Is there a way to replace the NAND?
If so, how much does it cost and can you replace it yourself?
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Technically it's possible but very hard and time consuming.
moson said:
Which phones are known for having big/small internal storage space?
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Older phones tend to have small user space, for example HTC Canary got 24MB ROM lol
moson said:
Are there some smartphones/tablets without NANDs?
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Probably, no. Every phone needs some sort of operating system residing in NAND
moson said:
Which phones are known for having big/small internal storage space?
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Look for HTC One X series.
moson said:
Which one is more resistant against magnetic influences: NAND or SD?
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Actually NAND is a way of storing information, both internal HD2 memory and SD cards are built with NAND. We just call HD2 internal memory in short- NAND. NAND is very resistant.
moson said:
Beside microSD, are there any more relevant card types used in mobile devices?
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Not much other than microSD, though I saw some smartphones using compact flash mem.
moson said:
If you look towards future, any changes (especially hardware) coming soon? like card type changes, notably increased NAND speed/storage space/
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Click to collapse
Yes, in short, SSD tech in smartphones.