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You know I have always come to XDA with my windows mobile phones and now my g1. I never made an account because I've always done my research on how to do things on my phone. But just recently there are a lot of new users comming to xda to learn and ask questions and achieve the new things we have on our phones. Not everyone has the intelligence to do things and sometimes have to have things done for them. but if they are actually taking the time to ask a question, for the next 10 pages of posts they are getting flamed about how they are in the wrong section or how they are idiots or just snide remarks or sarcastic responses, that right there is driving people away from this forum. like a lot of people say why not let the mods take care of it, why flame the user? what do you achieve? do you feel better about yourself? I have always loved XDA and i may not have had that much to give to the community. I also want to say thank you to all the developers putting forth all the work.
XDA is like having a girlfriend. It's fun at times but mostly it's hell. But you stick around so you can pound that pearl! hahaha jk
ernvillanueva90 said:
You know I have always come to XDA with my windows mobile phones and now my g1. I never made an account because I've always done my research on how to do things on my phone. But just recently there are a lot of new users coming to xda to learn and ask questions and achieve the new things we have on our phones. Not everyone has the intelligence to do things and sometimes have to have things done for them. but if they are actually taking the time to ask a question, for the next 10 pages of posts they are getting flamed about how they are in the wrong section or how they are idiots or just snide remarks or sarcastic responses, that right there is driving people away from this forum. like a lot of people say why not let the mods take care of it, why flame the user? what do you achieve? do you feel better about yourself? I have always loved XDA and i may not have had that much to give to the community. I also want to say thank you to all the developers putting forth all the work.
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I think its good to do some Trial & Error before asking some questions.Don't ask a question that was answered above your post. I don't like when people start spamming or trolling and they say the rom is slow just cause they don't know what they're doing. Now the search here isn't perfect and finding some things can be difficult but if you do xda+(rom name,etc) you should find the thread with google.Instead of making a new thread like how to root dream/G1m do root G1 on google and you will find something.
Ace42 said:
I think its good to do some Trial & Error before asking some questions.Don't ask a question that was answered above your post. I don't like when people start spamming or trolling and they say the rom is slow just cause they don't know what they're doing. Now the search here isn't perfect and finding some things can be difficult but if you do xda+(rom name,etc) you should find the thread with google.Instead of making a new thread like how to root dream/G1m do root G1 on google and you will find something.
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I most agree with you but why flame the user is what im getting at. just the rudeness and the snide remarks. what benifit does the community get from this? if anything they are driving away people that you never know may become very good developers. just let the mod deal with it and redirect them and they will eventually learn. i myself dont like to ask for help. i rely on google and on the search. im just doing this for all the new members that may join xda. i mean these people that are quick to flam someone on how they broke a rule bc they posted in the wrong section arent they breaking a rule as well by flaming the other user? or insulting them? i never see anything being said about that... just my thoughts. from this point foward mod go ahead and delete this or do what you please with this. i just thought id speak my mind for once rather than just sit by and watch people get flammed or instulted and from this be discouraged and driven away from this forum.
ernvillanueva90 said:
I most agree with you but why flame the user is what im getting at. just the rudeness and the snide remarks. what benifit does the community get from this? if anything they are driving away people that you never know may become very good developers. just let the mod deal with it and redirect them and they will eventually learn. i myself dont like to ask for help. i rely on google and on the search. im just doing this for all the new members that may join xda. i mean these people that are quick to flam someone on how they broke a rule bc they posted in the wrong section arent they breaking a rule as well by flaming the other user? or insulting them? i never see anything being said about that... just my thoughts. from this point foward mod go ahead and delete this or do what you please with this. i just thought id speak my mind for once rather than just sit by and watch people get flammed or instulted and from this be discouraged and driven away from this forum.
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I didn't mean its right to do that,cause the rules say to respect other members so they are going against that. I think if they have nothing nice to say then keep your trap shut real tight.
It's just how this forum seems to operate. It's massive, with a very lenient policy on trolling and off-topic harassment. Combine that with a userbase that seems to trend on the younger side, you get a lot of kids who think they're anonymous and because of that, think they should just flame the hell out of anyone who asks a question.
I only respect people that try. If it's available already on xda search and google search. I wasn't spoon fed and I will not help themselves. If we say there is already a guide that show you how to install adb, root, unroot, wipe, flash etc. we mean that someone took the time to create the guide for that and one can easily find it by searching.
But there are some user level things that xda needs to address, such as stickied updated user guides a better more forum level faq. I think something like that needs to be created which may cut down on common repeat questions, but why do that when it says to search first on the first sticky but they still don't anyway. It's a loosing battle any way you cut it.
Better rom layout in the dream section anyway would be a huge plus. Even as simple as have a [main dev - 1.5/hero -- 1.6 -- 2.x -- 2.x sense] would be big for the android section.
I think what makes XDA different from a lot of other internet forums is the subject matter being discussed...it is very technical in nature. Rooting, flashing of ROMs, recovery images, themes, and SPLs is pretty heavy stuff.
Lots of non-technical people own these phones, yet it takes a technical person to mod them, so naturally a lot of basic questions will be asked and naturally those already in the know will grow tired of being asked.
It was just a few weeks ago that I didn't have a clue about modding Android, but after reading a lot and asking a little, I was able to catch up pretty quickly, and I have XDA to thank for that. My only advice to my fellow forum members is because of the highly technical nature of this forum, a little extra patience is required compared to other internet forums. Yet at the same time adequate policing of mis-posting and unnecessary posting is required. Just gotta find the happy medium!
i think my autoresponse to people emailing me at [email protected] really says it all (as well as my signature - the patience bit)
the number of emails asking "how do i root" "what is root" "what is a custom rom" and even the classic "wat duz dis shizzle do yo?"
This is an automated response
Your email has been received.
This email address is exclusively for help and support with the
CM-Updater and CM ROMs.
Emails asking "how do I root?" "how do I get CM" and "what is this app
for" WILL BE IGNORED.
Emails using poor language and/or grammar such as "wat duz dis do?"
WILL BE IGNORED.
Emails using bad language and/or are rude WILL BE IGNORED.
CyanogenMOD is for the Dream/G1 and Magic/MT3G only.
If you are inquiring as to whether or not it will run on the droid,
hero or any other phone for that matter - YOU WILL NOT RECEIVE A
REPLY.
If you are looking for the IM app which was removed after 4.2.9.1
Look Here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=5208623#post5208623
I am NOT cyanogen nor do I hold any great pull with him - we just
mutually benefit from each other.
I WILL NOT forward messages to him or request features on your behalf.
If you have not received a reply within 24 hours then the chances are
your original email did not fit this criteria.
My apologies for being so strict. 20-70 emails a month for this can
get annoying when it is often down to people not reading properly.
If you require more in depth help, please consider SEARCHING the XDA forums.
As a last resort, start a new thread (in the QnA section please, not
the development section).
I WILL NOT HOLD YOUR HAND AND GIVE YOU ALL THE ANSWERS
Thank you for using the CM-Updater
Kind regards
Garok89
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ernvillanueva90 said:
Not everyone has the intelligence to do things and sometimes have to have things done for them. but if they are actually taking the time to ask a question, for the next 10 pages of posts they are getting flamed about how they are in the wrong section or how they are idiots or just snide remarks or sarcastic responses, that right there is driving people away from this forum.
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To be honest, if it drives away idiots who can't be arsed using the search button or even Google on their Google phones (god forbid!) then the forum will be a better place without them.
If someone posts "What's root? i can't find it on the market." they deserve to get flamed. (a surprisingly common question i get asked a lot, by the way.)
We were all beginners once, i appreciate that, but you won't get anywhere and you wont learn anything if you don't figure stuff out for yourself.
this site is so huge that sometimes a search wont find what you want, either that or it does and its lost amongst all the flames and other questions. sometimes it takes asking a question again to get what your looking for... i try to find what im doing and read up on it all before i do stuff new, like flashing the 10mb ram hack i did recently for instance. did a lot of reading and searches. and for a final to make sure asked some good people over at the irc channel...
i can see why some people get flamed, but sometimes its just an ego trip some geek thats made this stuff his life is on...
btw xda is the best site for this stuff, with all the flamers, theres still some good people that are glad to help
Meltus said:
To be honest, if it drives away idiots who can't be arsed using the search button or even Google on their Google phones (god forbid!) then the forum will be a better place without them.
If someone posts "What's root? i can't find it on the market." they deserve to get flamed. (a surprisingly common question i get asked a lot, by the way.)
We were all beginners once, i appreciate that, but you won't get anywhere and you wont learn anything if you don't figure stuff out for yourself.
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I can understand what you are saying, but people need to be more understanding as well.
I was once flamed for not using the search button when I asked about getting really short battery life with a specific ROM. Some asshat told me that I needed to use the search function because it had already been discussed. Well, type a common subject like battery life into the search function and you're going to get a gagillion responses (just got 20+ pages doing it). After saying that in the thread, I was then told by the same guy that I should go back and read the thread by this person. That's all fine and dandy, but when the thread is damn near 150 pages long, that's not really an option either. To me, it seems as though this forum often lacks basic common courtesy unless you're one of the frequent posters even with non-beginner questions.
Honestly I am starting to get sick at the attitude of some of the members of this forum. It takes more time to ***** than to just simply skip the post and go to the next one.
As the forum gets bigger (XDA today is huge!) you will have simply no way of avoiding these kinds of posts. Telling them to go search or being rude to anyone is NOT going to help.
This used to be strictly a developer forum but with all the press it's getting, the site has been growing a lot over the past few years, and by being an ass you're insulting the very people that are helping this site grow, and even those saying HUGE THANKS by donating money to you for your hard work. How rude is that?
C'mon, let's be more upbeat, forgiving and helpful towards our fellow members and let the actual moderators do their jobs.
/rant
It's 50/50 I just avoid reading something if I know I might get a littlke snarky about it and I agree with some of what you're saying. It had someone today that made a thread asking for something that was literally 3 threads down from his post. I found that rather annoying. But still pointed him in the right direction. NOT everyone is as patient as some of the members here. Just saying.
Kshawn said:
It's 50/50 I just avoid reading something if I know I might get a littlke snarky about it and I agree with some of what you're saying. It had someone today that made a thread asking for something that was literally 3 threads down from his post. I found that rather annoying. But still pointed him in the right direction. NOT everyone is as patient as some of the members here. Just saying.
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I don't mind when people flame them for not searching...as long as they then answer the question (like you). Because it is so annoying down the road when you are searching an issue...and a thread comes up with your exact problem...and the only replies are telling the person to go search..when that's what you're doing!
There comes a time when people get to the breaking point with lazy people not wanting to search. In those instances it is absolutely infuriating, particularly with someone posting like was done earlier where the answer to his question was literally on the same page... Not only that, it was in the dev forum to boot.
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
EtherealRemnant said:
There comes a time when people get to the breaking point with lazy people not wanting to search. In those instances it is absolutely infuriating, particularly with someone posting like was done earlier where the answer to his question was literally on the same page... Not only that, it was in the dev forum to boot.
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
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^^^^^
This.
We are a development forum, this isn't the place to get hand held and walked through the same idiots guide 30 times with pictures and line by line instructions. I have no problems helping people that want to help themselves. Seeing, "Why can't i flash this" when they aren't even rooted, have nand locked and never bothered to even check the stickies angers me to no end.
We were all noobs once and we learned really quickly to search, read and then read some more. When you think you know what you have to do then you should read some more. Then try.
Many here flash development kernels and then we end up with 15 pages of 55 fps OMG. Camera is broke! Can we fix it? OMG I have an epson with screen tearing I'm going to return this pos! Nova panel no fix? Dude I'm returning it for an epson!
Don't even get me started on the cross device posts and people threatening to return their device. Return the damn thing. I don't need you to justify my decisions. I also don't equate my penis size with my phone so; grats the Iphone records 720p awesome if that is what you need then by all means help yourself. No need to post. No need to post "I love my EVO" Threads in some lame attempt to counter act the negativity of another device doing something better than yours. Take that stuff to one of the other laid back forums where people aren't actively trying to fix problems.
Grims said:
I don't mind when people flame them for not searching...as long as they then answer the question (like you). Because it is so annoying down the road when you are searching an issue...and a thread comes up with your exact problem...and the only replies are telling the person to go search..when that's what you're doing!
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Why should I waste my time digging the link up for them? Then they are just going to expect it EVERY time and we will keep getting the same posts from the same people who are too lazy to take the time and search and read.
Tough call, I am relatively new here but I help a lot at other forums and this stuff happens everywhere. Some days I bite my lip and some days I am a smart ass.
I definately agree that if you decide to reply you should say something useful so to not populate everyone elses search results with useless info. Of course the bad part about ignoring a noob's post is that they will then keep bumping it themselves until someone tells them to go search....so you can't win!
The other day when I posted at another forum that progress was being made on nova panels and the 30fps cap I flat out told them I wasn't going to post the link because the developers needed the thread to work. I of course credited xda just didn't give them the thread.
Sent from my EVO using Tapatalk
EtherealRemnant said:
I'm sorry but it doesn't do the community any good to have people come join who contribute nothing to the forum but enrage everyone who has to tell them to UTFSE...
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Actually, by telling them to just search and not answer their question, we will ultimately HURT those who are actually UTFSE....Google. By responding to them you are BUMPING the thread. Either let it die, let a moderator take care of it or simply tell them to search, but point them to right direction kindly and with respect.
It's pretty apparent that UTFSE is a common issue and maybe you can modify behavior through the forum itself? I don't see why the forum can't search out the keywords being used, sentences and such and force the user to "review" previous postings prior to making a new one? It could even go as far as to have them review and check off certain starred postings "before" making a new one. I have been blasted on other forums for not searching and thus I learned my lesson very quickly. Since it is such a common issue on many different boards, I would think someone could come up with a solution.
My .02-
I don't know how much I agree with the OP. I have been using these forums for maybe a year or two at this point and for the most part the balance seems to be 80% helpful 20% trolls. I figure that everywhere, in any forum there are always going to be trolls but on the whole XDA has ALWAYS been helpful. Maybe I'm just lucky and havent had to deal with too many trolls but either way, while I agree with the OP, not sure how large scale of a problem this really is.
I think one of the biggest problems is search itself. I can find my way around ok, but even searching can take an inordinate amount of time.
People tend to take the path of least resistance, so if they have two choices: search or ask, they'll take the option that requires the least effort--they'll ask. So even though they get *****ed at about searching, they'll still just ask because they're likely to get an answer in a few minutes without having to do any work.
I believe the answer, and what would help this community the most, is to consolidate the most requested information in a SINGLE SIMPLE place. I've checked out the wikis, but to be honest, things move so fast here, even the wikis get out of date quickly.
Consider some of the most asked newb questions:
"How do I flash this"
"I can't get adb to work"
"When will it be out"
"My battery sucks, what do I do"
Most of this information is readily accessible with a search, but the advice is varied as much as the individual results. For those of us who understand what we're reading and who can filter the wheat from the chaff, tinkering is great fun. For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works.
How do we put that together?
For example, I've seen advice such as: "To save your battery, remove the people widget." I get four hours of battery @ 100% with the people widget, so am I lucky? Is that bad advice? At best, it appears anecdotal. What we owe the community, and the newb offenders that generated this topic is fact based, concise advise that is easy to read, easy to obtain, and easy to download.
I also think XDA should start adding moderators commensurate with its growth. Moderators should DELETE DELETE DELETE posts that burn time and energy when this information is readily available. XDA is nothing but a big ass database of information, and like any other database: Garbage in, Garbage out. We need to keep the forums clean with relevant information.
I agree with the OPs original aims: We should be gracious to newcomers and help people out. I'm sick and tired of reading snarky "go search you dumbass" posts, but I also agree, it does get REAL OLD seeing the same old "I flashed this and now I'm bootlooping, OMG, someone help me now"
One last point and I'll shut-up: The devs spend WAY TOO MUCH time doing bull**** troubleshooting. If we all stepped up and took care of the basic PD for their work, they'd be free to keep doing what we really want them doing and that's improving their ROMS, Apps, Themes etc. So while we work on figuring out how to manage information, you can best help out by answering every question you can so your friendly dev can keep coding.
Apologize for the rant...
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
PoisonWolf said:
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
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Gotta agree 100%.
Give a man a fish (or thread link) and you feed him for a day... Teach him to fish (or search) and you feed him for a lifetime.
PoisonWolf said:
What a waste of thread space on XDA.
Why enable dependence in people? They either learn it the right way, and learn to read on their own, or they should just leave and never come back. Once you've been here a while and see the baffling amount of stupidity and laziness that is exhibited by people who just "expect" everything to be served to them, I couldn't give a flying f**k if I'm nice to them or not.
On the other hand, if it's obvious that the person has done his own homework and is still unable to reach some sort of consensus on the matter, or is just trying to get affirmation on what he's about to do with his phone, then by all means for helping the person and making sure he doesn't end up with an electronic-has-been-brick.
XDA is not a handheld daycare center. I'd rather XDA grow slowly with people that are actually worth having, than having XDA grow like mushrooms overnight but filled with spoiled, self-justifying narcissists on what they deem should be their right when it comes to simple forum etiquette and common sense.
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Finally! I couldn't agree more.
I will have to say that I think XDA desperately needs a wiki-post forum feature like the ones on slickdeals.net or fatwallet.
Would save a ton of time on these massive threads with posts that might have outdated info.
jmxp69 said:
I think one of the biggest problems is search itself. I can find my way around ok, but even searching can take an inordinate amount of time.
Most of this information is readily accessible with a search, but the advice is varied as much as the individual results. For those of us who understand what we're reading and who can filter the wheat from the chaff, tinkering is great fun. For others, they just want expert and reliable information that works.
How do we put that together?
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I couldn't disagree with this more. XDA is not an end user support forum, it is a forum for exploring new development techniques and ways to hack devices. The main purpose of XDA, in my opinion, is NOT to provide sweet consice fully working solutions. The purpose is to share information that leads up to finding complete solutions.
If new users want to find easy answers then they should use another forum, such as AndroidForums, which do a pretty good job of only linking back to XDA if it is a complete solution. If users want to use XDA then they need to deal with SEARCHING through the developmental process.
While the constant occurrence of people refusing to search on their own is annoying, I find the flat out disgust for anything not Android (or w/e forum you're in) to be painfully immature. It happens everywhere but there are too many posts on here that sound like a 12 year old "dissing" some other kid in school (iPhone the majority of the time).
06ms6 said:
I find the flat out disgust for anything not Android (or w/e forum you're in) to be painfully immature. It happens everywhere but there are too many posts on here that sound like a 12 year old "dissing" some other kid in school (iPhone the majority of the time).
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Depends on how it is done. Personally I enjoy the friendly banter between IPhone an Android.
And it is interesting to compare issues between devices.
ramiss said:
Depends on how it is done. Personally I enjoy the friendly banter between IPhone an Android.
And it is interesting to compare issues between devices.
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Comparing is good. Some people have used the same phone for a year or two and are just now experiencing a new handset or even a new operating system.
It is when the whole one-sided "fanboy" bickering happens...that the thread goes to sh-t
Ive been lurking here for a while quietly helping through PM and congratulating great work.
Over the years the members have become like the fan boys at apple. Foaming at the mouth waiting to flame a new member for not finding the answer in search or posting a relevant topic in the wrong section.
Seriously?
When the G1 came out we were all noobs. This Samsung is no different. There are alot of people new to android who picked up this device and I love it when the community grows.
FYI. XDA isn't the Bentley of android forums... we are a community of people looking to help eachother. Can we please keep the flaming to a minimum? You are wasting bandwidth.
My two cents. (now watch the number of people who tell me I'm in the wrong section.)
Sent from the best phone from TMO... Vibrant
I agree for the most part. But it does get old if there is a similar thread on the 1st page of the section. This is not a matter of being a noob to android but a noob to forum etiquette.
There are no stupid questions, but not attempting to find the answer first is a bit lazy.
I don't think its the fact that people are noobs. Its the fact that they have poor forum etiquette. Senior Members and New Members are both guilty of it. I think most people are more than willing to help or give advice. People just need to think before they post.
I hear ya on this one. Even as an android user from day 1, I, myself am guilty of becoming pompous member at times.
Back when the sh*t fest started in the G1 forum (during the Haykuro and CM C&D letter) I created a thread that was added into the "Informative links" sticky.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=568011
While I feel it mostly feel on deaf ears and blind eyes, if you think a revision of this would help, I dont mind spending some time on updating it before we post here in Vibrant forums.
Sorry OP, im not trying to hi-jack the thread, but do you mind if use this thread as a start point? maybe we can have some ppl chime in to get this updated and more in line with Vibrant forum. I already see some things I would need to change, but anymore technical info and thoughts would be appreciated.
xda-developers.com displays textbook… narcissism...
Agreed.
What about a FAQ page related to specific phone That includes the most asked questions. Specific to flashing, apk, odin, a step by step guid.
30Glock said:
What about a FAQ page related to specific phone That includes the most asked questions. Specific to flashing, apk, odin, a step by step guid.
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Well the problem is we have that yet people don't read it. So people post the same thing over and over again and the older members get mad and take it out on the person.
The street goes both ways. New members need to put a little effort and older members need to be a little more forgiving.
I've worked very hard on the Sticky. If someone asks the same questions I've answered over and over, I have little patience.
No we just need more aggressive moderation and banhammers. We also need English as a second language, because places like Mobile-Review.com forums are far more tame and nicer, even though no one goes there. And that's probably the main reason, since XDA is the go to place for a lot of people when it comes to smartphones, whether they are concerned about modding or not. Popularity has its downsides. And there's another stereotype that may or may not be true, but people who want to hack their phone and be on the cutting edge are also *usually foul-mouthed brats living in their mother's basement with no social life or sensibilities to speak of. Normal people don't really care about any of this. Or maybe that's geeks in general, real nasty on the net but pansies in real life.
I've done my fair share of forum moderating and admining. I have the same thought process on every on.
1.Everybody is new day one.
2. Its the senior members job to point them in the correct direction.
3. Todays newbie is tomorrows expert.
Scare new members away and who knows what they would of contributed later. Senior members if you get tired of the same old questions either be helpful and answer it or don't say anything at all. Being rude just scares away members and honestly that is not a good practice.
Hijack away I dont mind I just got tired of reading flaming posts. Its good to know im not the only one who felt that way.
I think a forum ettiquette post would be great
Sent from the best phone from TMO... Vibrant
kizer said:
I've done my fair share of forum moderating and admining. I have the same thought process on every on.
1.Everybody is new day one.
2. Its the senior members job to point them in the correct direction.
3. Todays newbie is tomorrows expert.
Scare new members away and who knows what they would of contributed later. Senior members if you get tired of the same old questions either be helpful and answer it or don't say anything at all. Being rude just scares away members and honestly that is not a good practice.
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Plus 1. Thats wat I was trying to say. Perfectly worded sir.
Sent from the best phone from TMO... Vibrant
Yeah I go through and
Read many forums and the search option is not the greatest. Sometimes it'll point me to a line someone said on a thread with over 100 pages. Honestly although I try sometimes it's too much to read and a lot of bs to skim through about people arguing over who knows more. And sometimes I just get lost reading the technical stuff.
But because of some members attitudes here i am OFTEN reluctant to ask questions. They either get overlooked or people get upset. I understand a lot of times a lot of things are repeated but sometimes it's not clear the first time or someone else puts it in a different light.
I appreciate all the work done here but I wish sometimes people would just relax and have fun doing this. If someone asked a question that was already answered then YOU don't have to respond. Someone else is willing to help.
Sent from my SGH-T959 using XDA App
I've been reading internet forums since the dawn of USENET. Guess what? People asking questions that are in the FAQ has always happened and always will. Yeah, it gets annoying to the long-time readers/contributers, but you have to look at it from the point of view of the new user. Believe it or not, some of them just don't know better. They don't know to read the sticky. They don't know where the search button is, or they don't know what to search for. There are a multitude of reasons, but the bottom line is, they are all individual, unique people who come here seaking an answer to a problem. They have no knowledge of the 10, 100, 1000+ people that have asked the very same question. So when you get upset about reading the same question for the eleventeenth time, you are getting mad at a person for asking one question. Not a person who has asked the same question a bunch of times.
If you look carefully, you will see that after a person comes here (and any forum for that matter) and asks a question that has been asked before, and when that person is replied to with respect and helpfulness, generally that person will not ask any other questions that have been asked before. In fact, that person very likely may become a contributer, helping other newbies a long the way.
My wife teaches college and without fail, when it gets to the last two weeks of the semester, she starts getting floods of emails "What can I do for extra credit?" "What is the policy for late work?" etc. Guess what. All of the questions are in her course syllabus that she hands out on the first day. It drives her nuts too. I try to calm her down there too.
Have you ever gone to some public service desk (DMV, taxes, hunting license, anything like that) and received very rude service for just asking a question? Because that person is fed up for answering the same question over and over again, even though there is a sign on the door that you somehow missed reading on the way in. Remember how you felt? Was it really YOUR fault?
Some of them are truly lazy and want to ask even though they truly know better and for some crazy reason they think they will get a faster response by asking rather than searching.
Bottom line is, if you are the kind of person who gets really, visibly annoyed over things like this, then internet forums may not be the best place for you to hang out. If it just annoys you a little reading the same question over and over again, then congratulations--you are human. You can either choose to respond or not respond. And if you do respond, personally, I think it is better to try to keep a positive, helpful attitude.
I agree with the OP.
I have been using forums since it was first called UseNet, as a matter of fact, I still call them "newsgroups".
XDA nowadays reminds of the reasons why I left the Media Center forums back in 2005, after having earned 2 MVPs for my help there. Those who were once newbies themselves and asked stupid questions at first became arrogant and elitist and spent more time flaming and calling names those who asked questions like they once asked, than pointing them in the right direction.
Using the search is not always the answer. There are many ways to frame or word one issue or question. What for one person is a lag, for another one is slowness, delay, performance, etc. Words can be misspelled, shortened, euphemisms can be used, etc. For many English is not even their first language.
Posts by people well acquainted with the technologies at hand can be daunting not only for newbies, but for many who are not experts. References to CM6, Odin, Clockwork, Recovery mode, etc, in the same sentence can be intimidating, when you know that a simple misunderstanding can brick your $600 phone.
Like someone else well said before, today's newbies are tomorrows experts.
I understand that seeing the same question (not necessarily stupid) for which an answer has been provided before may bother some people (not me), but instead of spending valuable time and bandwidth criticizing and frequently offending others saying things that probably wouldn't be said in person, wouldn't it be better to answer the question, or at least point the person in the right direction and then humbly instruct them how to find the answers by themselves?
The anonymity of nicknames sometimes lead people to act in a less civilized way than what they would do otherwise.
Luis
I quickly browsed through this thread to read others thoughts. Here are my own:
Yes, this forum in particular does have it's share of rude members. What I'm noticing is that a lot of people will chime in and immediately chastise the OP, or call someone an outright liar about their particular experience. What I really hate is when someone with a particularly bad attitude posts something like "Well I really don't care about...." and then proceed to go on a diatribe about how they don't care about something or how someone else is wrong or stupid. They obviously care if they opened the thread, took the time to read the thread, and then took the time to respond.
Look, we are all here to share our knowledge on something in particular that we know, and to also gain knowledge from someone else on things that we don't. My hope is that this forum becomes more helpful to the people seeking it. For instance, I never found a clear-cut answer to the question if you root the phone and apply the lag fix and whatnot, if you will still get the OTA updates that are forthcoming. Some people say yes, others say absolutely not. I didn't get the feeling that anyone who answered that question knew exactly what they were talking about. Yet, if I made a post asking, I would get slammed because it's "been answered before you stupid noob".
orells said:
Ive been lurking here for a while quietly helping through PM and congratulating great work.
Over the years the members have become like the fan boys at apple. Foaming at the mouth waiting to flame a new member for not finding the answer in search or posting a relevant topic in the wrong section.
Seriously?
When the G1 came out we were all noobs. This Samsung is no different. There are alot of people new to android who picked up this device and I love it when the community grows.
FYI. XDA isn't the Bentley of android forums... we are a community of people looking to help eachother. Can we please keep the flaming to a minimum? You are wasting bandwidth.
My two cents. (now watch the number of people who tell me I'm in the wrong section.)
Sent from the best phone from TMO... Vibrant
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\
I think it has to do with age. I've come to the realization that this board is full of 14 year old wanking little boys, so what else to do you expect? I don't care what their birth certificate says, maturity wise, the majority of the board is all of 14. It's disgusting and if I didn't need mod info, I sure as h*ll wouldnt be here.
Hi,
Here are some ideas and thoughts on how I would try improving the overall tone in the forum through moderation and rules. This thread is by no means intended as any demands or criticism, it's just what I think could help. It's also not written with anyone specific in mind.
First off I would like to see posters refrain from personal attacks, this goes both for intentional trolls as well as those reacting to trolling. If the "no personal attacks" rule was enforced more we would get rid off a lot of the hostility in here.
Asking questions
Just saying "RTFF", "Use search, you noob" and so on is pretty counter-productive. Which search terms to use aren't always obvious so a lot of the times it's better to go for an approach like prefacing the answer with: "That question has been asked and answered many times before, try searching first and checking FAQs". The point comes across, the poster gets his answer and hopefully a potentially valuable member isn't scared off. Everyone's a noob at some point.
Personally I encourage asking questions but some people might find that annoying so I propose two things:
1. Either labeling the thread accordingly, like "No questions" or stating that in the original post.
2. Leave the job of moderating questions to the OP. If you don't want to answer then don't say anything, slamming the question doesn't help anything.
General conduct
There are forum rules for this already so I won't go into detail too much. I just wish that people would skip the insults and personal attacks. If you want to criticize something then criticize the subject not the person. Calling someone an idiot and flaming them doesn't do any good. That goes for the spelling and grammar police too.
Thoughts on moderation
My suggestion would probably increase the moderators workload but I feel it might be necessary. Posting a quick motivation when locking a thread is great, keep at it. Let the OP of the thread dictate the tone in it and only go after rule violations unless the complaints come from the OP himself. If the OP still interacts in a thread even after it's veered way off-topic you could ask him to edit the topic to reflect this. Threads can be seen as conversations and those are seldom static so going OT is almost inevitable.
Just a few thoughts, feel free to comment on them.
You're an idiot loser who likes to lick iPhones.
(AKA: I agree with your ideas and wish to suscribe to your newsletter.)
Its not the tone only in X10 forum, you can find the same thing else where. But thanks for putting together this nice notes and helpful instruction to behave right. Before anyone sign up for a new account they should pass a test by doing that they are forced to read all these notes. Its the nature of human that thinks he or she is right all the time and knows better that everyone else, just like me.
Well, I hope people get the point and stop bashing each other over some none sense problems.
Nimche said:
Its not the tone only in X10 forum, you can find the same thing else where. But thanks for putting together this nice notes and helpful instruction to behave right. Before anyone sign up for a new account they should pass a test by doing that they are forced to read all these notes. Its the nature of human that thinks he or she is right all the time and knows better that everyone else, just like me.
Well, I hope people get the point and stop bashing each other over some none sense problems.
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I singled out this board simply because I have no experience from the other parts. You could even make a case that the issues mentioned are universal in all forums with lots of users. I've seen the things I talk about happen other places too and how well similar guidelines have worked so it might be worth a shot.
ddewbofh said:
I singled out this board simply because I have no experience from the other parts. You could even make a case that the issues mentioned are universal in all forums with lots of users. I've seen the things I talk about happen other places too and how well similar guidelines have worked so it might be worth a shot.
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Don't get me wrong. What I was trying to say was that reminders are awesome and I do really appreciate your time putting your thoughts on here for us and I will be the first one to follow. I do respect XDA.
Yeah, I got your point. I just wanted to elaborate on why i talked about the X10 forum in my post and not forums in general.
I love XDA.
I've been lurking for about a year now in a few different device forums as I contemplated buying a Viewsonic Gtablet, then a Notion Ink, then a Moto Xoom, before finally settling on the Transformer
It seems regardless of platform, there is at least a handful of talented, patient, and damn smart developers making cool things happen, a bunch more tinkerer-by-nature hobbyists trying all the cool stuff the devs put out (and showing their gratitude any way they can), another handful of eager but clueless -- sometimes young, ESL, or whatever -- people asking dumb questions, and finally, the few self-righteous bullies that make every visit to XDA a jarring reminder of how rude people can be.
Moderators (and self-envisioned moderators)...stop being jerks! I understand the importance of keeping threads in their respective categories and of cleaning up duplicate threads and asking people to search before creating another thread, and I appreciate the work you do. But don't say something to someone you wouldn't say to them in person, just because you can't see their face!
Succinctly make your point, shut it down, and move on. Snark is the nails on a chalkboard of personality traits; we'll all benefit and improve ourselves by growing out of it.
A) The search function sucks. It does. The only reason I know where anything is on these forums is because I spent ~20 hours reading every single thread that looked important before I even bought my tablet. I don't think the oft-thrown-in-people's-faces search bar has ever helped me find something I wanted to know. Is that an excuse for people to be too lazy to do some research on their own before making a post filled with questions they could've answered simply by browsing the front page of threads? No. But it is something to consider next time you want to jump down someone's throat for having a specific question about drivers while trying to figure out NVFlash.
B) There are three different deprecated "stock to rom" walkthroughs still stickied! (See the "Eee pad reference thread.") Rooting and rom-ing is an undertaking, and people are willing and want to learn/teach themselves, but don't keep three contradicting textbooks on the shelf and then get pissy when people don't know whether the current "best practice" is this or that. If you want to keep the house clean of annoying re-post questions, maybe someone should take a day and streamline that "Eee pad reference thread" into something useful/usable again. Looks like the f***** tax code!
C) I'm not a developer -- I can't make anything cool, port this, or deodex that. But I can help these clueless, lost people figure out what went wrong in their attempt to gain root. And often, I'd like to answer their questions...but you already locked the thread and told them to pack their bags because they're not smart enough for the wild west of XDA!
Anyway, it'll be easy for you to dismiss (or lock and delete) this, because it isn't really "Transformer General," I've only posted five times, and/or because no one likes to turn a critical eye upon themselves, but I hope you don't.
I'm just a guest here, and not much of a contributing one at that, but just be respectful to people.
Searching before posting is a rule of this site, not a suggestion. I have seen plenty of people do fine searching for things on their own, myself included. Those that complain about the search function either don't know how to use it right or don't actually use it and claim they did. If your job was to remind people of rules they should already know and are blatantly obvious, but choose to ignore, you would be tired of it too; honestly those people deserve more than a slight reminding of the rules (temp ban sounds more appealing). Consider it a favor that a slap on the wrist is all that happens.
If you don't like XDA search function, use google. If you can't use google, rid yourself of the Internet, save yourself the trouble, and save us from you. Welcome to Earth.
Sent from my creaky Thunderbolt
One reason that the search function doesn't work as anticipated (at least for me) is that the default is "search titles only" and if you just blindly type a search term in and hit "go" then you almost always won't get a hit.
I've had to hit "advanced search" and choose "in titles and posts" to get anything.
So that's my comment and now I have a question..lol...
How do I make the default to search titles and posts and not just titles?
I've already tried saving my search preferences; that seems to do nothing.
mb02 said:
Searching before posting is a rule of this site, not a suggestion. I have seen plenty of people do fine searching for things on their own, myself included. Those that complain about the search function either don't know how to use it right or don't actually use it and claim they did. If your job was to remind people of rules they should already know and are blatantly obvious, but choose to ignore, you would be tired of it too; honestly those people deserve more than a slight reminding of the rules (temp ban sounds more appealing). Consider it a favor that a slap on the wrist is all that happens.
If you don't like XDA search function, use google. If you can't use google, rid yourself of the Internet, save yourself the trouble, and save us from you. Welcome to Earth.
Sent from my creaky Thunderbolt
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Wow. Way to prove OP's point. You know you could have just not commented, but the fact that you expended the effort just to be a snarky, sniping jackass not only showcases exactly what OP was talking about, but also tells us everything we need to know about you as a person. Why don't you go **** yourself and the horse you rode in on?
Thanks
KoNP said:
Wow. Way to prove OP's point. You know you could have just not commented, but the fact that you expended the effort just to be a snarky, sniping jackass not only showcases exactly what OP was talking about, but also tells us everything we need to know about you as a person.
Thanks
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And
KoNP said:
Why don't you go **** yourself and the horse you rode in on?
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This has got to be the funniest "pot-calling-the-kettle-black" moment I've seen on the XDA in a long time....
Why do these two sentences not go together?
I've seen funny...and that's funny.
rpavich said:
I've seen funny...and that's funny.
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Thanks, I try.
Also, it's not the pot calling the kettle black to call someone else out on their ****ty behaviour. Additionally, I'm not the one sitting here acting like I'm infallible and taking cheap shots at the OP who made valid points. If mb02 had had something legitimate to say in response to OP, hell something halfway contributory, then he wouldn't have had to respond the way he did. I think he's forgotten that old adage "just because you can, doesn't mean you should" somewhere along the way.
You get to choose which side of the fence to sit on. The side with elitist circlejerkers who practice exclusion like mb02, or the side with people who would rather spend their posting effort helping others and not being a total cockjockey.
Yeah right...you're correcting is WAAAAYYY different than anybody else's....
Read the Policy Announcement to get a feel for why XDA is here.
Also the XDA MANTRA
(begin paraphrase from a former Senior Moderator)
This is not a site to make people popular. I don't care how many people use a specific kernel/ROM/mod/hack/bicycle - act like a fool and demand something from a developer who has put their time and energy and effort - and you deserve to be called out for it. The rules are here for a reason. You either follow them or leave, your choice.
What XDA is:
XDA is a developers site
XDA is a free forum you are ALLOWED to use. We could make it invite only
XDA is and always will be about the developers. And before you say without the users there would be no XDA, Bull****, who do you think used the stuff before normal people even knew what a smartphone was......wait for it.........other developers. People that could give good feedback with relavent info. Not just "dahhh this is broken, please fix".
What XDA is NOT:
XDA is not a place to come and make your phone cool.
XDA is not the cool place for idiots to hang out.
XDA is not your friends house
XDA is not a democracy
XDA is not a place to make Money.
XDA IS a place to come to learn and share your knowledge. If you are not here for those reasons then you are here for the wrong ones.
XDA has become a place where every dumbass in the world has a smartphone and comes here thinking they have the right to anything. Well guess what? You dont have the right to s**t. We share it because we want to and we dont if we dont feel like it. Are the Developers or the Mods required to make you happy? Nope not in the least. Wanna leave. Go ahead. I beg you, please do. The less people that are asking dumb question because they dont know what they are doing (this is understand, but at least look) or are too lazy to look for it the better.
[/end paraphrase]
@OP:You are right most of times, however you can see many people making posts/threads without reading anything. For a MOD/ADMIN who see this again and again and again, I can assume that will be pissed.
More over if some one reads a stickie about flashing and has no idea why/how for his own sake please do not proceed and brick/destroy the equipment.
@OP careful your going to be iron fisted.
Sent from my Transformer TF101 using xda premium
One thought on the search function. It works fairly well if you take the time to learn it. My only suggestion is to investigate removing or lowering the required wait time between searches. I am wondering of the additional load on the system from more searches would be less than the load caused by creating a new thread after the initial search failed to provide expected results and frustration set in.
Rumbleweed said:
One thought on the search function. It works fairly well if you take the time to learn it.
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When you start typing a search in the box is your default "titles only"?
mb02,
I understand and appreciate the "search first" rule; and I actually agree that a temp-ban for breaking forum rules is appropriate. What is inappropriate is dishing out smug keyboard-lashings. Someone creates a new post asking something that's been covered a million times before? "Sorry, you've been temp-banned for violation of forum rules. Please read these two threads (blahblah) to understand why and help you become a quality contributor. Hope to see you back."
Not, 'Is the search bar missing, or are you just an idiot? Disconnect your router, crawl in a corner, and die.'
Also, who doesn't have a job that involves dealing with frustrating people while remaining civil?
Moderation is important. Enforcing forum rules is important. Stuff like this, "if you can't use google, rid yourself of the Internet, save yourself the trouble, and save us from you. Welcome to Earth." is disrespectful garbage. I'm an adult with an education, job, and family. If you spoke like that to me in person, we would have an issue.
Jerdog,
I actually already read both of those before I joined -- and they did help me better understand XDA's history. I'm not defending the entitled, "this isn't working, fix it," and "when is the next release???," etc. crowd. Far from it. Those people are guilty of the same disrespect I'm so tired of seeing, and I'm glad the moderators stay on top of that. I know I get tired of reading development threads to figure out how the guys are doing on a particular project and wading through a soup of worthless posts (following the "Virtuous Galaxy" rom development in the Iconia forum was a perfect example of this).
I can only imagine how annoying that is for Mike, Gnufabio, Roach, Rothnic, et al. (That said, I also doubt these guys would be as amazingly prolific as they are if they didn't know that thousands of us non-dev muggles love and appreciate their work.)
If XDA is in fact a place to "learn and share knowledge" (and I hope I eventually can absorb enough know-how from these guys to make and share something of my own...even if it's just a simple framework button/battery mod), that abhors "disrespect, rudeness and fun-ruining"...why so much of that from moderators? It seems Iron Fist simply flipped the script on who gets to be rude. (Again, I have no issue with closing/moving threads and forum housekeeping.)
But this kind of stuff: "Wanna leave? Go ahead. I beg you, please do" ?
Why would you be that hostile?
I understand that this is a free, could-be-invite-only forum, I don't have to pay a thing to use it, XDA has more registered users than it wants, and you have every right to tell me to pound sand. But why would you? I've been learning here, and do my best to share my limited knowledge (even it it means PMing someone the thread that would help them solve their issue because the thread is closed and I can't post in it).
Keep the Development sub-forum limited to the dev elite, but if people stick around (in the General and Questions sub-forums) and learn because their first misstep was corrected respectfully (rather than brutally), maybe they'll be developing a popular rom or theme in a year or two!
rpavich said:
When you start typing a search in the box is your default "titles only"?
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I almost always use Advanced search. Much more effective.
Because honestly.......Abuse seems to be the only thing that slows the creaping tide of every n00b who jumps on here with his new device and want s to be spoon fed every detail on rooting and roming and theming and overclocking.....etc.....etc....
Instead of looking for the answer they just keep starting new threads for every little issue they have. This is not a customer service forum.
Agree on the advance search. took me a moment to realize the "titles only" option.
However, if im not on my computer its damn near impossible to search anything on the tablet. Anytime i click the search button, it opens, and quickly closes. Not form friendly..
I dont know.
And not trying to derail the conversation here but i have tried different browsers and classic xda option. So, sometimes in a dev thread with over 200 pages, searching isnt an option.
Not XDAs prob. I know. Just saying
Search can take time and hardly ever gets me to where I need on the first try. Fortunately I am on all day, every day flipping through forums so what really works for me is simply searching for my username+search term. Helps narrow down threads I've been in and looking for.
I do think Mods can be "too hostile" sometimes. A simple "Thread Closed" works or "Moved to Appropriate Forum".
It would be nice if threads could be "CLOSED" by users once a solution is found
DaveRichardson said:
If XDA is in fact a place to "learn and share knowledge" (and I hope I eventually can absorb enough know-how from these guys to make and share something of my own...even if it's just a simple framework button/battery mod), that abhors "disrespect, rudeness and fun-ruining"...why so much of that from moderators? It seems Iron Fist simply flipped the script on who gets to be rude. (Again, I have no issue with closing/moving threads and forum housekeeping.)
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Mod Edit: I am an idiot and I cannot properly structure an argument without resorting to vulgar language.
KoNP said:
Uh, yeah... you didn't realise that was precisely the reason they did it?
Moderators have no real power or achievements outside of the little boxes they push around on here. Iron Fist will slowly kill this place - all that'll be left are a bunch of power-crazy gits and the toolbags who clamour to fellate them.
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ahhhhhhh.....someone sounds a little butthurt
jerdog said:
Read the Policy Announcement to get a feel for why XDA is here.
Also the XDA MANTRA
(begin paraphrase from a former Senior Moderator)
This is not a site to make people popular. I don't care how many people use a specific kernel/ROM/mod/hack/bicycle - act like a fool and demand something from a developer who has put their time and energy and effort - and you deserve to be called out for it. The rules are here for a reason. You either follow them or leave, your choice.
What XDA is:
XDA is a developers site
XDA is a free forum you are ALLOWED to use. We could make it invite only
XDA is and always will be about the developers. And before you say without the users there would be no XDA, Bull****, who do you think used the stuff before normal people even knew what a smartphone was......wait for it.........other developers. People that could give good feedback with relavent info. Not just "dahhh this is broken, please fix".
What XDA is NOT:
XDA is not a place to come and make your phone cool.
XDA is not the cool place for idiots to hang out.
XDA is not your friends house
XDA is not a democracy
XDA is not a place to make Money.
XDA IS a place to come to learn and share your knowledge. If you are not here for those reasons then you are here for the wrong ones.
XDA has become a place where every dumbass in the world has a smartphone and comes here thinking they have the right to anything. Well guess what? You dont have the right to s**t. We share it because we want to and we dont if we dont feel like it. Are the Developers or the Mods required to make you happy? Nope not in the least. Wanna leave. Go ahead. I beg you, please do. The less people that are asking dumb question because they dont know what they are doing (this is understand, but at least look) or are too lazy to look for it the better.
[/end paraphrase]
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Exactly. Thread closed.
This is a development forum, not an end-user support forum. Although many developers are kind enough to answer questions regarding their releases, this is in no way expected from them. Also, development sections must be kept clean in order to allow our valued developers to do what they do without the intrusion of noobish "entitled" attitudes.
If you have a problem with the way the XDA moderation team handles the forums (either general or more specific), you have two choices: you can either leave or you can message MikeChannon, our forum administrator, to suggest a different modus operandi. This thread is useless and off topic, as it's not even peripherally related to the Transformer.