Related
Cupcake = 1.5
Donut = 2.0
Apparently if Rosie aka HTC Sense is going to be released OFFICIALLY to Dream and Magic, its gonna be the Donut update (2.0)? can anyone confirm?
I found this comment on youtube regarding Hayrukos Hero/Rosie rom
If you buy an HTC Magic it is very likely (though not impossible) that you will never get the 'Rosie' skin. Rosie was developed by HTC to enhance the look and feel of Android like they do with WinMo. You will certainly get the update to succeed Cupcake (1.5) for Android which is known as Donut (2.0) This is because the update is to underlying software, not the look. Hope that makes sense!
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Click to collapse
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NiU3v_VLmcY
HTC Sense is only being released on HTC-branded HTC phones, not Google-branded HTC phones. That means for example it will go out to HTC Magic phones but not T-Mobile MyTouch phones (which run the same hardware but are branded and supported differently).
HTC Sense is a replacement launcher/UI for Cupcake. Donut is a completely new build of Android. In otherwords, installing HTC Sense would be like putting a paint job on a car while installing Donut would be like installing a new engine and powertrain. In other words, they are completely different things.
besides.... donut was never a build, neither was cupcake.....
Android 1.5 is just that, android 1.5. Android 2.0 will be 2.0. Cupcake is a development branch where developers can upload their contribution outside of the read-only main branch. What you see right now in cupcake will (probably) be in android 2.0, and 2.3, and 2.7, and 3.0, and so on. Cupcake, as google said, is very much a work in progress. I'm not sure where donut comes in, I think it's cupcake's unstable branch, so things that have yet to be tested have to go through donut first, and then if they're approved, they'll be moved to cupcake, and then whenever google feels like it, they'll import whatever they want into the main branch (which nobody but google can write to, but everybody can download the source and build their own flavor of android off of it).
---edit---
besides, HTC had already said they'd try to bring sense (pun intended) to their existing android phones, though they won't be doing it to google branded ones. That means, though, probably a rosie port to dream, but only adp version, which shouldn't be much problem to port over, right guys
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2009/06/25/htcs-sense-ui-not-coming-to-any-google-branded-phones/
----edit----
actually, i don't know because i'm not in canada, but isn't roger's dream NOT a google phone? it's easy to find out, if it says "with GOOGLE" on the back, it's a google phone, if it doesn't then it's not. That means that roger's might get sense, then we can port it
That would be awesome, as I own an ADP
Dredge said:
That would be awesome, as I own an ADP
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Click to collapse
You don't need to own an ADP phone to run these... Just an ADP based ROM
Rosie on a non rooted g1 would be amazing
a stable rosie with no bugs and fast speed would b amazing.
let me correct myself, posted very late at night after work, according to whackypedia, though android is open source, all development goes on under a private development branch. for the parts that are being privately developed, cupcake was created to show the world what is being worked on, but this is read-only. donut is the open contribution branch, where google's android team will usually find worthy projects and then import them to their main branch.
jubeh said:
That means, though, probably a rosie port to dream, but only adp version, which shouldn't be much problem to port over, right guys
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Click to collapse
If im not mistaken ADP1 is a "with google" phone. Regardless of whether it is or isn't, my intuition is that Rosie is a product that will only be pushed out to HTC's own marketed-for-consumers phones, so I doubt it will be released for ADP1. Only phones that are sold under their HTC original names (e.g. Dream, Magic, Hero) should receive Sense.
jubeh: The Rogers Dream is NOT a "with GOOGLE" phone because it has Microsoft's Exchange support and for the record it dose not have "with GOOGLE" on the back cover not like that would really matter since its just cosmetic and you can change the back cover.
so if i scratch off "with google" on the back of my phone ill b able to get the update OTA right? (lololol joke, don't take this seriously and start flaming)
you're missing the point :facepalm:, but yeah, thanks for confirming rogers is not a google phone
If you have a rooted phone then you shouldn't even care if your phone is "with Google" or not. The rooted devices don't receive OTA updates at all. Updating has to be done manually on these phones. Just install the modded rom when it becomes available. However, if you have a non-rooted "with Google", you will never get HTC Sense without rooting it first.
alright cool thanks for clarifying guys.
Hi,
I am new to this forum and would just like to know if anyone has any idea if there will be an official release of the HTC Hero's UI on to the G1.
I have heard that it will be available for all other Android and Windows Mobile phones except the G1.
Please let me know.
Thanks a Lot
Pretty doubtful I think because it uses HTC's custom libraries to create the user interface, while the G1 was officially shipped using open source code available in the cupcake branch. Some devs are adding features though from the donut branch also whick keeps us G1 users up to date with the latest features but eventually the hardware will get limited to support these additions.
I've not actually tried out a Hero build myself but from the threads posted about it so far, the ports to the G1 are still pretty slow and bloated, especially the widgets.
The answer, sadly, is no - HTC has confirmed that the Sense UI will not be ported to any device that is branded "with Google" such as the G1 or MyTouch 3G.
Won't it be ported to the Roger's G1 though? That's not a "with google" phone.
its already been semi ported. If you have rooted your phone you can already install a Hero Rom on your G1, although there are some things missing like bluetooth, it is getting updated almost daily.
cool, thanks a lot for all your help.
Hello,
I would like to change the HTC Hero's firmware/ROM to match that of the HTC Magic's firmware/ROM. My phone is CDMA, but I'm hoping that somehow, someway it is possible to do this. My reason for wanting this is so that I can finally do mods, like Cyanogen, since the CDMA Hero isn't really that widely supported, yet.
Thanks in advance for any help,
Tyler
Any new ROM will have to be CDMA, you can't change that since it has to do with phone hardware.
I have been.trying to port over gsm roms forever and.with no luck. Theoretically its possible but I haven't the faintest idea how.
Well, then I guess I have to resort to my last and great question. Since I'm stuck with my Hero, unless I go T-Mobile, how long, do you guys suspect, that it will take for more support to role out, like there is for the Magic? I ask because I'm wanting to know rather, or not there is a lot of development happening for the Hero because I really want great functionality and mod availability. At this point, if the answer is "not a lot", I may just drop the Hero for the Magic.
Thanks again for answering my questions,
Tyler
thejedislayer said:
Well, then I guess I have to resort to my last and great question. Since I'm stuck with my Hero, unless I go T-Mobile, how long, do you guys suspect, that it will take for more support to role out, like there is for the Magic? I ask because I'm wanting to know rather, or not there is a lot of development happening for the Hero because I really want great functionality and mod availability. At this point, if the answer is "not a lot", I may just drop the Hero for the Magic.
Thanks again for answering my questions,
Tyler
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So you're saying you're "STUCK" with a month and a half old phone, unless "more people start supporting it"? i.e. People spending their free time creating mods for the Hero, so that you can get it for free? And if people aren't going to do mods and features for free in the near future, then you're just going to get rid of your Hero and go to T-Mobile for the Magic because it has people who are dedicated to releasing software they dont get paid to spend time working on? Seems like a lot of complaining about something that is completely voluntary, nobody has to work on any mods and nobody has to support any device. If you want to drop your Hero, just do it already. Nobody wants you to keep using it, nobody is forcing you to keep using it. Just do it already, nobody cares to read threads like this.
Wow, you took what I said and totally blew it out of proportion. The reason I wanted to get Android was because I wanted to be able to do things, like root my Android device. I fully support developers in their endeavor to develop applications, mods, ROMS, etc for all Android devices on their time. I do not, however, sit here and feel that the best idea to do is to whine and cry about support for my Android device not yet being fully supported or embraced. I simply asked rather, or not heavy development was going to happen in the near future, so as to ascertain a good decision on rather I should switch. That way I could get the full and best support and benefit from my personal experience with Android. I am not a developer. I've only gotten into this, so I was simply curious as to how development was coming along for the Hero at this time, and rather it may have been a better idea to just switch. Sorry To Have Offended The Offended.
**EDIT**
And understandably, having reread what I wrote, I can understand how what I said may have come off as a little dickish; however, it was not my intention, nor was it my wanting to cause a conflict.
thejedislayer said:
Wow, you took what I said and totally blew it out of proportion. The reason I wanted to get Android was because I wanted to be able to do things, like root my Android device. I fully support developers in their endeavor to develop applications, mods, ROMS, etc for all Android devices on their time. I do not, however, sit here and feel that the best idea to do is to whine and cry about support for my Android device not yet being fully supported or embraced. I simply asked rather, or not heavy development was going to happen in the near future, so as to ascertain a good decision on rather I should switch. That way I could get the full and best support and benefit from my personal experience with Android. I am not a developer. I've only gotten into this, so I was simply curious as to how development was coming along for the Hero at this time, and rather it may have been a better idea to just switch. Sorry To Have Offended The Offended.
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There are many threads with people making their own roms, and modifications are being made to the hero by various people. Heavy development like going to 1.6 or 2.0 will most likely not happen by any developer, but by HTC itself. Once they release a new version, people will make a new rooted ROM with all the changes. For a fairly new phone, it got rooted fairly quickly (within a month of being released or so). It hasn't even been rooted all that long yet. All of this information is available in various threads. In the end its your decision on if you can wait or not to receive updates. Bleeding edge isn't always the best choice for everybody. If you prefer bleeding edge, perhaps you did get the wrong phone because there will likely be much more activity with, say, the Droid. But as for apps, there should be tons and tons of more apps coming available for the android platform as time goes on. I just cant see why you would want to switch phones based on a really short time period of it being out, jumping ship because it hasn't been hailed and given 100% attention by tons of developers yet. Honestly, as more android phones are released, I think more people will start developing for them and the android community itself will continue to grow. There are still some 7 year old Casio devices that receive updates, if you can believe that.
In all honesty, I knew I was a little quick to jump the gun when I said rather, or not it was a good decision to move from the Hero to the Magic. Again, this is all really new to me. In my mind, my main concern was that because of the Hero's Sense UI, this would make it a lot harder for developers, like Cyanogen Mod, to keep the Hero up-to-date with the rest of the older Android devices. The Magic, seeing it being a lot more supported in just three short months since its debut, made more sense to me to possibly move to. As it had tons of development happening for it, and I simply wanted to be apart of the action.
wouldn't a 1.6 Rom work since it "supports CDMA" out of the box???
@ azfxstb
I took the liberty of looking around, and I ended up finding some links from HTC for 1.6 support. Link: http://developer.htc.com/google-io-device.html
According to the article, though, the next successive version relies on a previous version in order to update properly. In other words, in order to know I have full functionality and support, I would have to start from the beginning of the Magic's support and simply continue updating till I reach the newest update. I may be wrong, but if I'm not, then it may be something worthwhile considering, even if it's a hassle. Anyone have any thoughts about this method?
I'd say stick it out. The Sprint Hero hasn't even been out for 2 months and it is rooted and there are a couple of custom ROM's posted here. I've had my Hero for 2 weeks and have already tried numerous releases, and all have been very stable for me.
I'd love to see some of the improvements Cyanogen come over, and I'm sure they will eventually, but you have to remember how long of a time frame the Magic had to work with.
azfxstb said:
wouldn't a 1.6 Rom work since it "supports CDMA" out of the box???
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Click to collapse
We don't know that HTC's shoehorned CDMA support into 1.5 is compatible with the built-in CDMA support in 1.6. What that means is that there's a potential that even if we did get a 1.6 build on the phone, HTC's proprietary (i.e., not required to release source code for) software that sits between the Android framework and the linux kernel (which in turn talks to the hardware) might be speaking a different language that Android 1.6 can't understand. That's the problem with their hacked-together 1.5 build. Make note that I do not know this for certain, but it's certainly a possibility, and if that's the case, we'd have a broken phone until those HTC layers could be translated from hacked-1.5 to native-1.6.
That's why, as already stated above, those moves probably won't happen until HTC releases a 2.0 build (which means we might never see 1.6 run on this phone even after the 2.0 release, since we'll never have the HTC software that is written specifically for the 1.6 platform).
To break it down, the phone has 2 processors: ARM9 and ARM11. ARM9 runs the radio hardware, and the radio controls literally *everything* that makes this phone usable. Think of ARM9 like your computer's BIOS chip. Except in a very rare case of someone who really really wants to hack on their phone, the ARM9 will never be modified by us.
The ARM11 is the next layer, and that's what actually runs the OS, recovery images, etc. The ARM11 is able to communicate with the ARM9 using a series of two-way communication channels (shared memory) and hardware interrupts.
The linux kernel contains drivers that on one side talk to the ARM11 and other hardware in the phone, and then expose controls on the other side that allow the rest of the OS to work with those things (e.g., turn the screen on/off, register touches on the screen, play sounds, vibrate, make calls, etc).
For some things, that's enough to let Android take over and actually make use of some of those things (LCD, touchscreen, sound, ...). Still, there are other things that require intermediate controllers between the devices exposed by the kernel and Android. For example, "rild" is in charge of managing the modem as far as things like issuing commands to your carrier, getting online, telling the modem to make a call, finding out signal strength, etc. But HTC wrote their own ril that interacts with the modem -- and they aren't required (in fact, they're not allowed!) to release the source code for that, because a) it was developed using proprietary information given to them (under NDA no doubt) by Qualcomm, and/or b) it contains information that HTC themselves want to keep private, protecting their intellectual property, etc. There are several other userland libraries like that, which are NOT part of the kernel, and therefore are not required to be released as open source. Yet they are required for Android to work, as android will speak directly to those libraries, which translate the messages in order to communicate with the kernel, which communicates with the ARM11, which talks to the ARM9, which makes it happen.
The breakdown happens at the "android speaks to the libraries" step, because Android 1.5 speaks a certain language, and that's (potentially) different from the Android 1.6 language. Yes this phone is CDMA, and yes Android 1.6 has native support for CDMA... So, you say, putting Android 1.6 on the phone should "just work". But the HTC libraries that are on our phones are not designed for 1.6, they're designed for 1.5. And they're not even designed for the "standard" GSM 1.5, but for a "hacked" CDMA 1.5! If we put Android 1.6 on the phones, we could *try* to reuse the existing binary form of the HTC libraries, but if 1.5 and 1.6 talk different languages (most likely they do), the 1.5 version of the binary libraries are going to get confused and reject it. Then we're left with a 1.6 platform that can't talk to the 1.5 libraries, and we get major functionality meltdown. To be fair, it would be possible to write an additional translation layer that would convert the 1.6 messages into something that we "think" the 1.5 libraries will understand, but is it really worth the effort? (hint: it's not a small effort ) Then try doing the same with 2.0, and the potential for translation problems are even worse...
And not to mention, 2.0 also requires the 2.6.29 kernel, which (surprise, surprise), does not exist (for this phone) in the wild. We could theoretically get 1.6 running, since we already have a working 2.6.27 kernel (the phone shipped with it, and if we assume that the shipped kernel is "good enough", we can simply reuse it -- we already do that with the recovery image and even MoDaCo's rom). But as soon as we think about either modifying the kernel as it is, or god forbid, upgrading to 2.6.29, we hit a roadblock because we don't have the source code yet for the 2.6.27 kernel. Once that code is released, we could hypothetically port that support to 2.6.29. Or once HTC releases an Eclair build for this phone, it'll be guaranteed to have a ready-made 2.6.29 kernel buried inside, as well as the binary HTC libraries that are required for our phone. Until one of those two things happens (or, admittedly, someone reverse-engineers what's required... which quite frankly is not worth anyone's time considering we know that HTC *will* release both of those things eventually), Eclair is absolutely out of the question.
The short version (go ahead, admit it, you skipped to here even though I didn't put a "short version at the end" disclaimer at the top): 1.6 will absolutely require reverse-engineering the HTC libraries, just to get an already outdated (albeit still an upgrade) version of the OS on the phone -- not worth the effort. 2.0 will absolutely require reverse-engineering (both the kernel AND the binary libraries), just to get Eclair running on the phone maybe a couple weeks before HTC gives it to us on a silver platter -- And you're still likely to have a partially gimped phone at that point!
And the moral is: this **** is hard. HTC is already doing the work we need. HTC will make everything work "reasonably well". And they'll give it to us when they're done. Thus, no one *wants* to waste the effort doing it themselves. Ergo: we wait.
maejrep said:
We don't know that HTC's shoehorned CDMA support into 1.5 is compatible with the built-in CDMA support in 1.6. What that means is that there's a potential that even if we did get a 1.6 build on the phone, HTC's proprietary (i.e., not required to release source code for) software that sits between the Android framework and the linux kernel (which in turn talks to the hardware) might be speaking a different language that Android 1.6 can't understand. That's the problem with their hacked-together 1.5 build. Make note that I do not know this for certain, but it's certainly a possibility, and if that's the case, we'd have a broken phone until those HTC layers could be translated from hacked-1.5 to native-1.6.
That's why, as already stated above, those moves probably won't happen until HTC releases a 2.0 build (which means we might never see 1.6 run on this phone even after the 2.0 release, since we'll never have the HTC software that is written specifically for the 1.6 platform).
To break it down, the phone has 2 processors: ARM9 and ARM11. ARM9 runs the radio hardware, and the radio controls literally *everything* that makes this phone usable. Think of ARM9 like your computer's BIOS chip. Except in a very rare case of someone who really really wants to hack on their phone, the ARM9 will never be modified by us.
The ARM11 is the next layer, and that's what actually runs the OS, recovery images, etc. The ARM11 is able to communicate with the ARM9 using a series of two-way communication channels (shared memory) and hardware interrupts.
The linux kernel contains drivers that on one side talk to the ARM11 and other hardware in the phone, and then expose controls on the other side that allow the rest of the OS to work with those things (e.g., turn the screen on/off, register touches on the screen, play sounds, vibrate, make calls, etc).
For some things, that's enough to let Android take over and actually make use of some of those things (LCD, touchscreen, sound, ...). Still, there are other things that require intermediate controllers between the devices exposed by the kernel and Android. For example, "rild" is in charge of managing the modem as far as things like issuing commands to your carrier, getting online, telling the modem to make a call, finding out signal strength, etc. But HTC wrote their own ril that interacts with the modem -- and they aren't required (in fact, they're not allowed!) to release the source code for that, because a) it was developed using proprietary information given to them (under NDA no doubt) by Qualcomm, and/or b) it contains information that HTC themselves want to keep private, protecting their intellectual property, etc. There are several other userland libraries like that, which are NOT part of the kernel, and therefore are not required to be released as open source. Yet they are required for Android to work, as android will speak directly to those libraries, which translate the messages in order to communicate with the kernel, which communicates with the ARM11, which talks to the ARM9, which makes it happen.
The breakdown happens at the "android speaks to the libraries" step, because Android 1.5 speaks a certain language, and that's (potentially) different from the Android 1.6 language. Yes this phone is CDMA, and yes Android 1.6 has native support for CDMA... So, you say, putting Android 1.6 on the phone should "just work". But the HTC libraries that are on our phones are not designed for 1.6, they're designed for 1.5. And they're not even designed for the "standard" GSM 1.5, but for a "hacked" CDMA 1.5! If we put Android 1.6 on the phones, we could *try* to reuse the existing binary form of the HTC libraries, but if 1.5 and 1.6 talk different languages (most likely they do), the 1.5 version of the binary libraries are going to get confused and reject it. Then we're left with a 1.6 platform that can't talk to the 1.5 libraries, and we get major functionality meltdown. To be fair, it would be possible to write an additional translation layer that would convert the 1.6 messages into something that we "think" the 1.5 libraries will understand, but is it really worth the effort? (hint: it's not a small effort ) Then try doing the same with 2.0, and the potential for translation problems are even worse...
And not to mention, 2.0 also requires the 2.6.29 kernel, which (surprise, surprise), does not exist (for this phone) in the wild. We could theoretically get 1.6 running, since we already have a working 2.6.27 kernel (the phone shipped with it, and if we assume that the shipped kernel is "good enough", we can simply reuse it -- we already do that with the recovery image and even MoDaCo's rom). But as soon as we think about either modifying the kernel as it is, or god forbid, upgrading to 2.6.29, we hit a roadblock because we don't have the source code yet for the 2.6.27 kernel. Once that code is released, we could hypothetically port that support to 2.6.29. Or once HTC releases an Eclair build for this phone, it'll be guaranteed to have a ready-made 2.6.29 kernel buried inside, as well as the binary HTC libraries that are required for our phone. Until one of those two things happens (or, admittedly, someone reverse-engineers what's required... which quite frankly is not worth anyone's time considering we know that HTC *will* release both of those things eventually), Eclair is absolutely out of the question.
The short version (go ahead, admit it, you skipped to here even though I didn't put a "short version at the end" disclaimer at the top): 1.6 will absolutely require reverse-engineering the HTC libraries, just to get an already outdated (albeit still an upgrade) version of the OS on the phone -- not worth the effort. 2.0 will absolutely require reverse-engineering (both the kernel AND the binary libraries), just to get Eclair running on the phone maybe a couple weeks before HTC gives it to us on a silver platter -- And you're still likely to have a partially gimped phone at that point!
And the moral is: this **** is hard. HTC is already doing the work we need. HTC will make everything work "reasonably well". And they'll give it to us when they're done. Thus, no one *wants* to waste the effort doing it themselves. Ergo: we wait.
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Click to collapse
WOW...did you stay at a Holiday Inn Express last night????....J/K thanks for the in depth explanation
(I realize some questions are about the Galaxy S/General Android but I thought I'd fit them in here too. If inappropriate, please move or delete this thread)
Has there been any word of a GSM version for the rest of the world like me?
I assume this is rootable and Samsung will not use locked bootloaders like Motorola Milestone (which I regret even owning) ?
Is it possible to port Cyanogenmod to this or Galaxy S?
Should I pick this or an HTC phone with a QWERTY keyboard instead for ROM compatibility? (The rumored HTC Vision)
In an experienced person's opinion, Should I go for this or keep saving my money and go for an Android 3.0 phone instead? (rumored to come out in Q4 2010)
First question I don't know the answer to.
Second question yes it will most likely have root upon release.
Third question is most likely not. With Samsungs complicated file structure and lack of open source code the phone will most likely only receive custom roms based off of only Samsung firmware. That means the only way you will get froyo is when Samsung releases it.
Last question yes I would wait for an HTC device. The community already has a good grip on these devices which should give you a much better chance of having a large choice of custom roms. (mind you I'm not saying the phone won't have custom roms its just they will all be based off of Samsung releases. If you don't believe me take a look at all Samsung android released so far and where the I 9000 is currently at right now)
Sent from my Behold II using XDA App
So, let me start off by saying that I have searched, read and spent time trying to understand this... but still don't. Which answers why I'm posting this question.
First, what exactly is the reason that an AOSP rom is being developed and a Vanilla Froyo ROM is being developed?
Is the AOSP rom the important one here? Does the working AOSP rom with working kernel mean that we would have 2.2, 2.3.... and so on supported regardless of Samsung?
I understand that Samsung has not supported tremendously up to this point, I understand 2.2 has not been released for the CDMA version yet, and I understand the code they have released is "crappy." When I hear everyone talk about the great work the devs are doing, are they referring to mainly working on the AOSP? If this rom is built, will we be able to just keep developing it for the new versions of Android?
Sorta like in Back to the future when they break off the real timeline and go into the alternate 1985?
Samsungs Android - 2.1, 2.2.... EOL
Dev's Android - 2.1, AOSP, 2.2, 2.3?
Is this how it works? Basically just trying to understand what needs to happen for the Fascinate to get to at least 2.3... not WHEN or even IF it'll get to 2.3.
Thanks
AOSP means Android Open Source Platform.
It's a version of Android built entirely from sources provided by Google. It's completely Vanilla and comes with zero customer or manufacturer customizations. It's easily root-able, and able to be customized completely by the user if desired.
AOSP ROMs are desirable because they tend to be a bit faster and lighter due to their lack of crapification.
AOSP builds are only distributed in their complete and compiled form by Google for their developer handsets (Currently the Nexus One and Nexus S), and not by any carrier or manufacturer.
Okay, I appreciate that definition... I think I've gotten what AOSP is exactly... but I guess my question is does AOSP have any involvement in a future for this phone if Samsung decides to close its doors. Is a working AOSP, radio, kernel... whatever basically devs developing a future of this phone parallel to whatever Samsung does for it?
Like, I see from other threads that the ROM for Froyo and Gingerbread isn't necessarily the problem, its the radio and the RIL? If that is the case, what needs to happen for everything to figured out and for us to have a bright future for the Fascinate? Samsung has to release code for the RIL and radio? Are we SOL without Samsung helping here or will the devs definitely figure something out to get 2.2, 2.3... and so on for the Fascinate?
Bwangster12 said:
Okay, I appreciate that definition... I think I've gotten what AOSP is exactly... but I guess my question is does AOSP have any involvement in a future for this phone if Samsung decides to close its doors. Is a working AOSP, radio, kernel... whatever basically devs developing a future of this phone parallel to whatever Samsung does for it?
Like, I see from other threads that the ROM for Froyo and Gingerbread isn't necessarily the problem, its the radio and the RIL? If that is the case, what needs to happen for everything to figured out and for us to have a bright future for the Fascinate? Samsung has to release code for the RIL and radio? Are we SOL without Samsung helping here or will the devs definitely figure something out to get 2.2, 2.3... and so on for the Fascinate?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's kinda like building an office park, or strip mall or something. You toss up the basic vanilla buildings, and when it's finally done, companies move in and tweak it how they deem fit.
With a working ASOP build, it'll remove some of the shackles of Samsungs bs code.
So... the AOSP build IS THE KEY here? I understand it isn't working yet, but if the devs get AOSP working, does that mean we will get a 2.2, 2.3 and so on regardless of what is released by Samsung?
I'm just trying to figure out what is happening to keep the G1, Droid, Droid 2... supported by ROMs like Cyanogenmod and others, that hasn't happened yet for the Samsung Fascinate.
I'd like to get the Fascinate, but am sorta waiting because I don't wanna be stuck with a phone for the next 2 years that will max out at MAYBE 2.2 if we are lucky.
I don't know where to start with your confusion.
Samsung has not given 2.2 to us. This means that we do not have froyo...
The RIL is an interface layer between the os and the radio. I'm not too sure about it, but anyways...
The developers are working around the fact that samsung has not given further tools that they need to get froyo ported over. Currently they are working on a 1.6 RIL to get froyo working. On another note, vanilla aosp is a good thing because it gives developers more freedom to customize the roms. It also allows for them to be able to port over other roms.
I really don't understand your confusion. If you want a better explanation , I recommend getting on irc.
If I were you, I'd wait. Next gen phones are coming from vzw in the next few months which will essentially blow the existing tech soon.
Bwangster12 said:
So... the AOSP build IS THE KEY here? I understand it isn't working yet, but if the devs get AOSP working, does that mean we will get a 2.2, 2.3 and so on regardless of what is released by Samsung?
I'm just trying to figure out what is happening to keep the G1, Droid, Droid 2... supported by ROMs like Cyanogenmod and others, that hasn't happened yet for the Samsung Fascinate.
I'd like to get the Fascinate, but am sorta waiting because I don't wanna be stuck with a phone for the next 2 years that will max out at MAYBE 2.2 if we are lucky.
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Basically, that's the hope at least. If there are changes in say, 2.4 that require something that couldn't be hacked around with ASOP, we'll be stuck waiting for Samsung. But with a working ASOP, the groundwork is laid for updates to be ported over a bit more quickly by the devs.
Regardless of the future of this device, the Fascinate is one of the better Android handsets on the market. The screen is brilliant, it's the perfect size, and it's damn fast. The only thing that drags it down is the factory setup (although I personally think it's idiotic to ding the phone because of the inclusion of Bing like some people/reviewers have.)
I'm trying to understand what is going on instead of being one of the millions to ask about updates for this phone. I see phones like the droid series and read that they basically are being supported forever and then I see the Samsung Fascinate, and while I understand that the code is crappy/not released to community... I'm trying to figure out what needs to happen for it to be a supported device like the droids have been.
Bottom line, nothing at all is going to happen unless Samsung releases more than just a 2.2 update? If I see 2.2 drop like tomorrow, does that mean anything for a future, or is it just 2.2 update and we will just get devs releasing their versions of 2.2 roms?
RacerXFD said:
I really don't understand your confusion. If you want a better explanation , I recommend getting on irc.
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I read his questions as:
"Will a working ASOP build mean better developer support/faster developer released updates?"
I did skim them though.
RacerXFD said:
If I were you, I'd wait. Next gen phones are coming from vzw in the next few months which will essentially blow the existing tech soon.
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This is a good point. There's an LTE Samsung handset coming out soon, so it might be worth holding out for a little.
Although the Fascinate is no slouch.
Pretty much what I am asking. Like of everything that could possibly happen, Samsung releasing 2.2, AOSP being finished, blah blah what is the key that a consumer should look for to say...
"Well, now the Fascinate has no negatives to it and I have no fear that in a year, we won't still be stuck on 2.1 or 2.2 because Samsung screwed us."
Doesn't necessarily seem like Samsung needs to do MUCH to future this phones life and turn over the keys to the devs (like HTC seemingly has done), but I'm trying to understand what that thing is they need to do. Release a newer kernel, RIL, 2.2 ROM, some code that magically allows devs to port over future roms eternally...
I don't think I care if the phone has LTE capability. I won't get LTE and a regular 3G phone is beyond enough for me. LTE is zero impact for me.
Bwangster12 said:
Pretty much what I am asking. Like of everything that could possibly happen, Samsung releasing 2.2, AOSP being finished, blah blah what is the key that a consumer should look for to say...
"Well, now the Fascinate has no negatives to it and I have no fear that in a year, we won't still be stuck on 2.1 or 2.2 because Samsung screwed us."
Doesn't necessarily seem like Samsung needs to do MUCH to future this phones life and turn over the keys to the devs, but I'm trying to understand what that thing is they need to do. Release a newer kernel, RIL, 2.2 ROM, some code that magically allows devs to port over future roms eternally...
I don't think I care if the phone has LTE capability. I won't get LTE and a regular 3G phone is beyond enough for me. LTE is zero impact for me.
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What does SAMSUNG need to do? Release their source code, and not just incomplete parts of it.
Will that happen? I doubt it, but it might. Clearly the companies ears are perking up with all the yelling by the consumers.
What can we do in the meantime? Support the devs and wait for them to crank out a working ASOP build and Froyo.
Yes, would be nice to have a fully working AOSP build, and then Froyo... but they are seperate from each other right?
AOSP build is being done for 2.1? It can't just be magically updated to 2.2 can it? Does Froyo have to be officially released for them to update it to AOSP 2.2?
Basically... AOSP will only be updated to whatever version Samsung has released?
Bwangster12 said:
Yes, would be nice to have a fully working AOSP build, and then Froyo... but they are seperate from each other right?
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No. Android Open Source Project means "Android" in general. It can be 2.1, 1.6, 2.3, whatever. The devs elected to start with 2.1.
AOSP build is being done for 2.1? It can't just be magically updated to 2.2 can it? Does Froyo have to be officially released for them to update it to AOSP 2.2?
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If you've followed anything in the dev folders, clearly not. JT's "Vanilla" Froyo looks like an AOSP build.
Basically... AOSP will only be updated to whatever version Samsung has released?
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No. At least not our version.
Bwangster12 said:
Yes, would be nice to have a fully working AOSP build, and then Froyo... but they are seperate from each other right?
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It's hard to answer your question because AOSP and Froyo refer to two completely different things, which can be the same or separate.
AOSP is basically Android, built from clean, unmodified source code directly from Google, without any changes by carriers or manufacturer.
Froyo is simply the 2.2 version of Android.
So, you can have Froyo that's modified by a carrier and/or manufacturer. This wouldn't be AOSP. And you can have Froyo, built directly from Google code. This would be AOSP. You can also have Eclair (Android 2.1), or any other version of Android that's AOSP or not AOSP depending on whether it was built directly from Google code, or modified by a carrier or manufacturer.
AOSP doesn't refer to a single, particular version of Android, but the state of the code that was used to compile whatever version you want to talk about.
Bwangster12 said:
AOSP build is being done for 2.1? It can't just be magically updated to 2.2 can it? Does Froyo have to be officially released for them to update it to AOSP 2.2?
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A lot of the issue surrounds the kernel. When Google releases a new version of Android, it runs on a particular version of the kernel, which supports it's particular features. Manufacturers have to modify the kernel to support their particular hardware. So, since Samsung has only released source code for the kernel for Android 2.1, we're stuck on 2.1.
The versions of 2.2 from Kaos and JT are running on the Android 2.1 kernel that's been hacked to enable 2.2 to boot and run correctly. It works, but it's far, far from ideal. It doubles (if not more) the amount of work necessary to get 2.2 running, which is the reason for the rather slow pace of development.
So for your question, once Samsung releases 2.2 (the system and kernel), it'll be much easier to get an AOSP build of Android running, since the devs will only need to worry about the system instead of hacking together a kernel and RIL (radio interface layer) as well.
At least this is my understanding of the situation. I'm sure people with more knowledge and experience can correct me where I'm wrong, but I think this is the basic gist of it.
ChrisDDD said:
It's hard to answer your question because AOSP and Froyo refer to two completely different things, which can be the same or separate.
AOSP is basically Android, built from clean, unmodified source code directly from Google, without any changes by carriers or manufacturer.
Froyo is simply the 2.2 version of Android.
So, you can have Froyo that's modified by a carrier and/or manufacturer. This wouldn't be AOSP. And you can have Froyo, built directly from Google code. This would be AOSP. You can also have Eclair (Android 2.1), or any other version of Android that's AOSP or not AOSP depending on whether it was built directly from Google code, or modified by a carrier or manufacturer.
AOSP doesn't refer to a single, particular version of Android, but the state of the code that was used to compile whatever version you want to talk about.
A lot of the issue surrounds the kernel. When Google releases a new version of Android, it runs on a particular version of the kernel, which supports it's particular features. Manufacturers have to modify the kernel to support their particular hardware. So, since Samsung has only released source code for the kernel for Android 2.1, we're stuck on 2.1.
The versions of 2.2 from Kaos and JT are running on the Android 2.1 kernel that's been hacked to enable 2.2 to boot and run correctly. It works, but it's far, far from ideal. It doubles (if not more) the amount of work necessary to get 2.2 running, which is the reason for the rather slow pace of development.
So for your question, once Samsung releases 2.2 (the system and kernel), it'll be much easier to get an AOSP build of Android running, since the devs will only need to worry about the system instead of hacking together a kernel and RIL (radio interface layer) as well.
At least this is my understanding of the situation. I'm sure people with more knowledge and experience can correct me where I'm wrong, but I think this is the basic gist of it.
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Okay, thank you for this answer... this makes sense to me.
So, have HTC and Motorola released newer kernels for the devs of roms like Cyanogemod to update their ROMs, despite HTC and Motorola not actually releasing newer versions? I mean, how is the G1 updated as far as it has. Did HTC release a 2.2 kernel to allow devs to put 2.2 on it?
That's were I'm start confused as well.
I understand that Samsung has some proprietary kernel level code and drivers.
But, I'm curious what is the difference between Linux kernel versions used for different versions of Android. It doesn't sound like major version change and hence should not change anything dramatically. It should be mostly bug fixes. That's why jt was able to get kernel work.
As in relation to ASOP for SF, I see it like attempt to adapt Samsung code to current android interfaces. Once again, these interfaces should not change dramatically between versions, because these are evolutionary. So, I assume when done it is pretty much paved road up to 3.0 at least. That said some new features might not work at all, because we do not have working initial binaries from Samsung.
By the way mrbirdman has GB in progress.
Alright... so this may sound like I'm oversimplifying it, but I don't mean to.
Why can't the dev community just create a "custom" kernel to work with their versions of 2.2, 2.3 and so on? You say that they are working to hack the 2.1 kernel Samsung has released so it allows 2.2 to run on the Fascinate... but why can't they just make a 2.2 kernel? Is that sorta what Cyanogenmod is doing to get a 2.2 Froyo build to work on a G1?
Based on the amazing things I've seen the dev community do, building ROMs from scratch, I guess I don't understand how the kernel can't be built specifically for each new version... forgetting about what Samsung releases.
Bwangster12 said:
Why can't the dev community just create a "custom" kernel to work with their versions of 2.2, 2.3 and so on?
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Theoretically they could, it would just be a lot of work. Hardware drivers might not be compatible with the kernel version designed for 2.2 or 2.3. I don't think manufacturers are required to release the code for their drivers, so if a driver wouldn't work, one would need to be written from scratch, and without the detailed knowledge of the hardware itself, that is very difficult.
Hardware support is very integral to the kernel, so a kernel for one phone wouldn't run at all on another. So in addition to the difficulty of putting together a totally independent kernel, it would need to be done separately for each and every phone out there, and how many versions of the Galaxy S alone are there? How many HTC phones, how many Motorola and LG and Sony and so on.
It's just not realistic for people doing this, essentially, in their spare time.
So, what the devs generally do is wait until a carrier releases a version of Android (System, kernel, radio, etc.), and with all the hardware support in place and working, they can focus on building custom or AOSP versions of the system.
It's not that they couldn't build their own kernel, it's just a matter of practicality, audience and the shelf live of the particular phone. As it is, a new generation of phones are already either coming out or on the near horizon... and our phone is what, 4 to 5 months old?
Bwangster12 said:
Based on the amazing things I've seen the dev community do, building ROMs from scratch, I guess I don't understand how the kernel can't be built specifically for each new version... forgetting about what Samsung releases.
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The misunderstanding is in the complexity of compiling a custom system, and developing a custom kernel. They are hugely different in terms of complexity.
Think of a ROM as taking Windows 3.1 and simply tweaking the components that are installed by default - what accessories are installed, what wallpaper is selected, the color scheme of the windows. Not terribly complicated.
Think of the kernel as having to compile DOS, complete with custom drivers for all the hardware - CPU, graphics, memory, storage, multitouch, sound, radio, modem, WiFi, networking, power management, USB support, file system support, etc. all by hand.