Database Users

Blackstone or Raphael? Thoughts...

The time has come to relegate my trusty Hermes to the nearest bin. This means - upgrade time.
Now, unlike some of you, I do not have the luxury of trying out both of these to make up my mind. So, I'd like to hear some thoughts on those of you who has had to give up their Touch Pro keyboards for the more clumsy Touch HD on-screen text input.
Getting the Touch HD is a no brainer in every way, except one. I can't imagine giving up my sliding keyboard. Yes, I'm currently leaning towards getting the Touch Pro.
Thoughts? rants & raves? and shuttefu%^&up about iphones please.

As an owner of both I say get the HD. I loved my Raphael so dont get me wrong. I do a decent amount of typing and the HD keyboard seems very responsive. If you are doing a ton of typing there is really no substitute for a hard keyboard but the HD isnt far off. Out of the box the HD runs much better than the raphael did but there are plenty of custom ROMs out there that solve this for the raphael so not really an issue. One plus abotu the raphael is that there are tons of customizations but youc an expet that from the HD cookers out there in the coming weeks.
Again, i say get the HD. Its hard ot beat the screen on it and typing is actually pretty easy. I like the power button and volume buttons more on the HD as well. you dont accidently press them the way you will on the raphael. The other buttons on the HD are really nice as well because they do not actually press like the raphael does. It gives a little vibrate when you press them which is a suprisingly great feature. Oh yeah, don forget about the 5mp camera. It takes wonderful pics as long as you are in decent light.
Lastly, everyone that has seen my HD is blown away. When they saw my raphael they mostly said "thats nice, a little too think for me but nice"

mallman said:
As an owner of both I say get the HD. I loved my Raphael so dont get me wrong. I do a decent amount of typing and the HD keyboard seems very responsive. If you are doing a ton of typing there is really no substitute for a hard keyboard but the HD isnt far off. Out of the box the HD runs much better than the raphael did but there are plenty of custom ROMs out there that solve this for the raphael so not really an issue. One plus abotu the raphael is that there are tons of customizations but youc an expet that from the HD cookers out there in the coming weeks.
Again, i say get the HD. Its hard ot beat the screen on it and typing is actually pretty easy. I like the power button and volume buttons more on the HD as well. you dont accidently press them the way you will on the raphael. The other buttons on the HD are really nice as well because they do not actually press like the raphael does. It gives a little vibrate when you press them which is a suprisingly great feature. Oh yeah, don forget about the 5mp camera. It takes wonderful pics as long as you are in decent light.
Lastly, everyone that has seen my HD is blown away. When they saw my raphael they mostly said "thats nice, a little too think for me but nice"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WOW the most usefull review of all
thx again, and when my back account allow it , I might buy HD

I've still have my Touch Pro. I opted to buy the Touch HD for one big reason...Screen size bigger than the iPhone on a WM device! I'm tired of dealing with the limited space of a 2.8" screen. I've always been a fan of hardware keyboards, but the Touch HD has a nice virtual keyboard and with a program like gyrator 2 or gsen you can rotate your HD into landscape and stretch out the virtual keyboard for more room.
Also the GPS performance is better on the Touch HD.....the Touch Pro and Diamonds performance is crappy..its lags way too much and takes longer to get a fix. Now the AT&T Fuze may have this solved, but unless you have AT&T and live in the US its not really an option.
I think for any one who has been lusting over the idea of having an iPhone, but would never give up Windows Mobile can now rest at ease.
Just my two cents.

I have also used both, and I can say , on any given day , I would take HD.
HD screen is the best thing and the keyboard is also very good on it.Once , the custom roms comes from the likes of senior people like Dutty , Panosha and others, I am sure the HD will fly like a rocket.
Go for HD. I sold my rapheal already.

utvol06 said:
I've still have my Touch Pro. I opted to buy the Touch HD for one big reason...Screen size bigger than the iPhone on a WM device! I'm tired of dealing with the limited space of a 2.8" screen. I've always been a fan of hardware keyboards, but the Touch HD has a nice virtual keyboard and with a program like gyrator 2 or gsen you can rotate your HD into landscape and stretch out the virtual keyboard for more room.
Also the GPS performance is better on the Touch HD.....the Touch Pro and Diamonds performance is crappy..its lags way too much and takes longer to get a fix. Now the AT&T Fuze may have this solved, but unless you have AT&T and live in the US its not really an option.
I think for any one who has been lusting over the idea of having an iPhone, but would never give up Windows Mobile can now rest at ease.
Just my two cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that you have the HD could you compare the GPS performance with Touch Pro?
Give us numbers.... How many seconds to get a fix and the GPS "lag".

speed200 said:
Now that you have the HD could you compare the GPS performance with Touch Pro?
Give us numbers.... How many seconds to get a fix and the GPS "lag".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll report after testing this afternoon.

utvol06 said:
I'll report after testing this afternoon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, all of us will be awaiting for it.
Best regards.

In the last 3 months, I have owned a Diamond, Raphael and an HD. The Diamond came first and was lovely to use but the screen was too small to type effectively. So I bought a Raphael - which i used for work but it was just too thick - it ruins the cut of a suit!
Then along came the HD. The screen is just beautiful. Crucially, it is also large enough to type effectively. Don't get me wrong, it is not as effective as typing on a keyboard (such as on the Raphael) but unless you're doing a lot of typing, that doesn't matter. I still do a reasonable amount of email and the screen keyboard on the HD is large enough to cope.
The HD also runs more responsively than the Diamond or Raph. It doesn't suffer the Raph's GPS lag (I never had lag on the Diamond). And did I mention that screen???!!!
Disappointments with the HD? Not many yet. The camera is unquestionably way too slow and nowhere near as good as, eg, the N95 (which my wife has). The lack of D-Pad takes a bit of getting used to but all it really means is getting used to a different way of working as we're all so used to the DPad. I haven't yet found any software where it causes a major problem.
My final answer? Both my Raph and my Diamond are on ebay right now.

dito
yeah, my tilt and fuze have both sold on Ebay, I like my Touch HD. I am looking forward to using a different onscreen keyboard than the one provided in the stock ROM. I don't like that they wasted space by putting directional buttons on the right hand side. There is one available on a particular ROM downloaded from this site, but i suspect there will be more WVGA keyboards. I used to have a 6600 which had like a 3" screen or something, a wee bit larger than the tilt and that was a really nice phone actually, it just lacked the new juicier hardware. The Touch HD really brings out the sexy in HTC. No overweight short, fat, ugly phone, its tall and sleek and slim and sexy, lol! Just another thought: The Touch Pro can be had for about $500 without a contract and even FREE with a contract if you pull the right strings! However, the Touch HD is nearly $800 and there is no ifs ands or buts about it. You gotta pay for the best and its not really supported by AT&T or the retailers that sell it here in the US and is only barely supported by HTC in US. And, the insurance companies dont know much about it. All this makes for a riskier investment especially considering that some peoples HD vibrate breaks and they have to send it back . (moment of silence please). Yeah its a little scary for me right now. I think I might have it under control! If I were you and I had wee bit of money, I would go for the HD, its what the really cool people have, lol
Just a few thoughts,
Levi

I had a very cherished Tytn II (kaiser) before the recent HD.
I was really excited about the huge screen and higher resolution but the lack of a hard keyboard really put me off. Another huge aspect that put me off was the fract that straight out of the box you cant rotate to landscape mode. I've had my tytn ii in landscape mode permenantly for ever a year now and thats how I like it. The optical layout is very similar to wide screen TVs and monitors. Any how, I found a way to keep it in landscapde mode (look for my thread called landscape view +solved+.
I tried typing in full qwerty and compact qwerty mode in portrait screen but it just wasnt the same (or even close) to a large keyboard. So I resorted to trying to type in landscapde mode using full qwerty and it was just as good as the tytn ii keyboard. Snailslug's wonderful app called touch response made it even better. His app added little vibration feedback (haptic I believe is the term) to touching the screen. So using the virtual keyboard is much more predictable if you can imagine.

.VIBE said:
The time has come to relegate my trusty Hermes to the nearest bin. This means - upgrade time.
Now, unlike some of you, I do not have the luxury of trying out both of these to make up my mind. So, I'd like to hear some thoughts on those of you who has had to give up their Touch Pro keyboards for the more clumsy Touch HD on-screen text input.
Getting the Touch HD is a no brainer in every way, except one. I can't imagine giving up my sliding keyboard. Yes, I'm currently leaning towards getting the Touch Pro.
Thoughts? rants & raves? and shuttefu%^&up about iphones please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have tested both and I can say, being a Universal Super keyboard user, that HD is almost perfect but the lack of physical keyboard stop me to buy it, a Physical Kb will never be beaten for any fantastic on screen virtual Kb.
So if I had to decide for any of those being the only options I would choose Touch Pro because the Kb, even with that fantastic super screen of the HD.
Or dreaming a little bit I would wait for the upcoming HD touch Pro....
Iphone? Never in my life!!

I've had both on hand: Touch PRO and HD. And now i am really satisfied with HD compared to what I've been with Raphael. I've been considered so much before change from Raph to HD. I'd been with Raph for a month and swapped with many ROMs and radios (only Raphael radio) before making a decision to switch to HD... Beyond all of Raphael's pros is its crappy BATTERY LIFE
It only lasts for a day with full charge on my usage (compared to the same usage with HD). The GPS is so bad, could not fix as fast as my Polaris.
I have to say I'm really disappointed with Raph as I thought it could be another king replaced for the Kaiser...
Go to HD then you will have no regret and waste !

as a TyTN owner.. i thought of getting a raphael.. but looking at them.. they dont have many differences.. ok the vga screen.. the looks etc.. overall though its the exact same device pumped up..
besides.. im a more of a techie gadget guy.. the raphael doesnt come close to the HD from my point of view.. the raphael is a more bussiness man type of device rather the HD is the more
show off device.. get the HD you wont regret it!
cheers!

I too have upgraded from a Kaiser to the Touch HD.
Bit of a no-brainer for me as I found I hardly ever used the slide-out keyboard on the Kaiser. The basic WM keyboard has always been a fast method of entering text for me, particularly with the help of predicitve text and gesture recognition.
Spb Keyboard is meeting my needs for basic text entry on the HD. If I need to do a serious amount of text entry the stylus comes out and I use the standard WM keyboard again. With practise I think this is a pretty fast and accurate way of entering text.
Just in case it hasn't sunk in (!), the screen on the HD is FANTASTIC! Web browsing is excellent. The extra screen space and resolution is also fantastic in Pocket Informant agenda view. And mobile shell is great on the bigger screen.
As someone's said above, lack of D-pad is an issue to start with but only because you have to re-learn how to use your favourite programmes. After a while it's fine.
Setting up haptic feedback is a good thing.
I'm really looking forward to seeing what WinMo developers will do next year to tweak their software for the HD. It's good at the moment but could be more finger-friendly in places. Eg I know the next version of Pocket Informant will be more finger-friendly. Hopefully other developers will head in this direction too.

What about US 3G on ATT...
blacksage said:
...its not really supported by AT&T or the retailers that sell it here in the US and is only barely supported by HTC in US....
Just a few thoughts,
Levi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to the service manual (http://mikechannon.net/PDF%20Manuals/HTC_Blackstone_Service_Manual.pdf) the US ATT 850 and 1900 HSDPA/UMTS bands are supported.
The original specs showed no support for these bands -- but now????
Are you getting 3G speeds in the US???

Anyone upgraded to HD2/Leo from HD/Blackstone?

I currently have a touch HD/Blackstone and I love it to bits, but the prospect of having a capacitive multitouch screen and much faster responses when navigating round the phone/opening/running apps etc is starting to tempt me very strongly to the HD2/Leo.
Have any of you Leo owners upgraded from the Blackstone? If so, please can you let me know your thoughts on whether it was a good move, what the pros & cons are etc, and whether the new phone really is super fast and slick like the reviews I've read say it is.
If I get one I'd probably want to be running SPB shell on it, which from looking through here I assume it works, but will most apps for the blackstone also work on the Leo?
I know there's no stylus with the Leo for instance, but for fiddly stuff does the screen accept the use of a fingernail for 'precision' (ish!) stuff like checkboxes & small menus, or does it have to be skin contact or a real capacitive stylus etc?
Regardless of whether you upgraded from a Blackstone, are you very pleased with the way the phone works in terms of performance and 'slickness'?
Last questions are - what's the video performance like on the Leo, ie does it have all the problems the HD has in terms of poor out of the box performance with video playback?
And is the bluetooth stuff still hardcoded for the HTC music player (like the blackstone), or would I be able to properly use my sony bluetooth headset to control the likes of coreplayer?
Sorry for all the questions - I really want to upgrade to the Leo, but it will cost me a lot and I don't want to make a mistake.
Many thanks for any useful replies!
Jim

After having the Touch HD for 2 month I really loved it. Everything was running as I wanted it to be ... But then HTC announced the HD2 and I decided to switch to it after watching lots of videos in youtube an other sites. I would do it again ...
I don't have any problems using the OS without a stylus. In fact I wasn't using the stylus or my fingernails on my Touch HD either. I only needed to adapt to the higher screen responsiveness, but that was it.
HD2 pros compared to the Touch HD:
+ MUCH higher build quality. The Touch HD always felt somehow cheap, except it actually wasn't ...
+ Everything is just faster. I wasn't too thrilled with TouchFLO 3D on the Touch HD, as it slowed down the device too much. No problems on the HD2, although the new version of TouchFLO 3D (Sense ...) grew in so many aspects and is now pretty well integrated into the OS.
+ The bigger screen. Didn't thing its a big deal, but the screen-difference between the two devices is astonishing. Its much more fun to use multimediacontent on the HD2.
+ Pinch to Zoom.

I had a HD for nearly a year now and loved it - yes, TF3D ran slowly but it also was more "form than function" and I stopped using it in favour of simple SPB Diary with multiple tabs.
Now having a HD2 for over a month I do love the high speed and slick operation and I even stick with TF3D (or HTC Sense, whatever it's called).
But, there are apps from HD that don't run well on the screen as they expect the precision of a stylus. One example is SPB Finance that I used to record all my expenditures on an almost daily business. This just does not work with a big fat finger !
But, but others work great - CoPilot works really nicely. I tried Route66 on the HD2 as this was a fully legal working purchase on the HD but on the new HD2 it's not good. Nice surprise is the new CoPilot works really well and super fast. Even indoors near a window I can get enough satellites for a 3D fix and moving next to the window gets 7 or 8 sats. HD never achieved that.
My build quality on the HD was fine. On the HD2 you get a real solid feel from the metal battery cover where you naturally hold the device.
HD2 is super quick but the capacitive screen is a weakness. However, this is because most applications have not yet caught up. Many exist that are great with fingers like Resco explorer but others expect a stylus and are hard to use.
As a year long HD user I doubt very much that I won't move back after having got the HD2. My old HD is sitting in a box and I have not been tempted to get it out !

Thanks for the replies guys - I like what I hear!
I think the only thing that might delay me upgrading to an HD2 is the difference in value between selling HD and buying HD2 but we'll see....
Can you clarify a couple of things I'm still not sure about though?
Dave - you said you can't use certain apps from the HD because of the capacitive screen as you don't have a stylus with it (and can't use a normal one I believe), but is it possible to use these apps with a finger nail if you really need to?
I know it might be awkward or not very practical, but I want to know whether it's actually possible at all, ie if the screen will physically work like that, or if it's literally impossible to do?
Secondly (don't get me wrong here) whilst I don't want an iphone, is the responsiveness of the HD2 screen the same kind of thing? Local shops here don't have one I can try so I have to go by what others tell me, and I'd like it to work as smooth as the iphone screen, ie no actual pressure etc.
I know it's capacitive so it should be like that but I don't know if there are differences aside from that to how the screen responds. Hope that makes sense!
Last question - I believe the screen is glass on it? Is it toughened in any way? Presume the fact that it's glass will mean that it's much harder to scratch than the HD screen and also means a clearer, brighter display by not having a resistive layer?
Thanks for the replies - I appreciate the info!

I'll try again but I don't think finger nails work ...

I upgraded from the Blackstone and for me, it was definitely worth it.
First thing you notice is the amazing speed if the device. I just saw that I had TomTom (among a couple of other programs) running in the background for several days and I didn't even notice it.
The HD2 is really insanely fast. I sometimes take my old Blackstone in order to try new WM builds, but its slowness makes me sick after some minutes of using it.
Next big thing, for me, is the camera. The light sensitivity has been greatly improved and the flash works stunningly good for an LED flash.
It takes really great pictures for a smartphone, much much better than the HD, finally I have a phone that lets me capture the important moments
(btw. the 'red tint bug' is present but not noticeable on most pictures)
Third thing is the screen. It''s capacitive, that means you can NOT use your fingernail, and no stylus. But I really like the sensitivity, it's much more comfortable to use. And it feels a lot better, it's not the 'cheap' feel of the resistive panel's plastic layers anymore.
And this brings me to the fourth and last point: Build quality. I've never ever seen such a high build quality and high quality materials on a phone. It looks and feels just amazing, even the iPhone feels like a cheap toy in comparison.
Video playback is of course a lot better and it plays high quality video without stuttering.

Well actualy you can use stylus without problems, you just have to buy a special one (whitch buy the way also works on the iPhone)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-DAGi-Stylus-...wItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item414b467e4a
Like they other says there are applications who can be a bit of a hassel with using with the finger...
But I suspect you would love it... I could newer go back to my HD after being used to the buitiful racer the HD2 is, and i absolutely love the screen to.

Hi,
I've spent 1 week with the HD2 after a year on the HD. Mobile Shell 3.5 on both.
The main difference is speed. HD2 is soooo much faster. Didn't notice the HD was particularly slow whilst I was using it, but going back to it now is PAINFUL.
I struggled a bit initially with the capacitive screen, found it a bit hit and miss. In particular I found the HTC keyboard a nightmare, way too sensitive. Installing the .cab that decreases screen sensitivity has improved things greatly, and installing Spb Keyboard has also helped. It's improving with practice, there are still times when I do something and it doesn't register, but overall I'm starting to like it. There's a definite knack to it: much lighter touch, smoother motions. So there's a learning curve here + a need to tweak. And I'm sure the experience will continue to improve as third party software is adapted for it.
Mobile Shell has a few minor compatability issues but nothing to worry about (screen brightness control doesn't work, voicemail indicator widget doesn't work, a few other minor things). Spb are generally good at updating for significant new hardware releases, same thing happened with the HD when it was first released and they fixed everything quickly. I tried the Sense interface for a day or two to see if I could get used to it, it IS very pretty. But went back to Mobile Shell, I find it much more functional.
The HD2 build quality is excellent vs good for HD. And the additional screen size is a significant plus too. I was initially worried it would be a step too far in terms of the overall size of the device, but no. As soon as I laid eyes on the actual device + picked it up I knew it wouldn't be a problem.
Browsing in Opera is fantastic. Fast and the big screen helps. Still not comparable to a desktop browsing experience but very usable and way better than the HD due to the speed.
Overall it's a big step forward from the HD and highly recommended. Like I said, I find going back to the HD to dig out a few files I need to be surprisingly painful...

Cret said:
Secondly (don't get me wrong here) whilst I don't want an iphone, is the responsiveness of the HD2 screen the same kind of thing? Local shops here don't have one I can try so I have to go by what others tell me, and I'd like it to work as smooth as the iphone screen, ie no actual pressure etc.
I know it's capacitive so it should be like that but I don't know if there are differences aside from that to how the screen responds. Hope that makes sense!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tested the HD2 besides both, an 3G and 3GS, and really couldn't find any real difference in the screens responsiveness. You don't have to do any pressure on the HD2's screen ... I have to say, that I had a problem with the high sensitivity at first, but when playing around with an Nokia N900 last week, I noticed how fast I adapted to the capacitive screen of the HD2. The N900's screen was a pain in the ass (although its actually quite good for a resistive screen), because slight fingerswipes and tips didn't to anything ...
When browsing the forums you will notice, that most ppl here have/had a problem with the keyboard of the HD2. Besides the bugreporting here (I don't have any of these problems), I imagine that most of the problems with the keyboard just come from the unfamiliar sensitivity. By lifting the fingers a little higher when typing, I managed to type pretty accurate.
I don't have a Touch HD to compare side by side, but had the possibility to compare the HD2 to an iPhone 3G ... the 3G was very slow compared to the HD2 ... So wouldn't really go back to a last-gen phone ...

Had a Touch HD for a year until i bought my HD2 last month.
I Had Dutty's Leo rom running since he started releasing those, so I felt completely at home with my HD2 when i had it in my hand. (For those not knowing : Leo rom for Touch HD is just that. Winmo 6.5 running HTC Sense, just like the HD2)
A few things felt wonderfully different tho :
Screen is beautifull. The glas type used is almost impossible to scratch. I have my phone in my pocket unprotected. Even accedently slipped my keys in with it a few times. Not a mark on it! What is this screen made of ? Diamond ??
Speed. Wow! This phone is fast. I ran the weather demo simultaniously, side by side with the Touch HD. And the difference makes the Touch HD look like a joke. (it's not, but compared, its sloooow)
Pinch zoom. OMG now i know why Iphone has been the king of mobile browsing. HAS been! HD2 is now the new king! Opera + capacitive screen with multi touch AND a 1 ghz processor ? It is a match made in heaven. Mobile browsing is EASY and fun now. Thank god i have an internet sub on my simcard...
Camera. Remember how a big hazzel it was to take a pic with Touch HD ? I mean, the moment is GONE, before the camera is ready to take the picture!
With HD2 and a shortcut on the Sense start screen , it takes around 1 second(!!) from press on camera icon till your ready to take the picture!. The flash LED (Which can blind a man btw) makes it possible to shoot in the dark, FINALLY!
Well those things was EXACTLY why I upgraded, and I have not been dissapointed.
Some had a huge problem with the sensitive screen. Not me, I adapted quickly, and the keyboard I was used to from leo rom on the Touch HD, so i guess it's a matter of taste, or fat fingers .
Also
There are a LOT of the tweaks and programs for Dutty's leo rom that works great with the HD2, like BG4all etc.

rd2000 said:
The flash LED (Which can blind a man btw)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep, fortgot to mention the LEDs. I love them. Not to take pictures, but for everydays things. Really missed a LED on the Touch HD.

I got my HD2 a week ago, and I'm loving it, other than the rather short battery life (may be a temporary issue, some people do not have this issue).
It's definitely faster than the HD. Going through the Windows folder in File Explorer takes 2 seconds, rather than 6-8 seconds on the HD. Going through tabs in TouchFlo 3D (Sense) is fast, and tab contents are displayed lightning fast.
TomTom works great on the HD2, haven't tried CoPilot because they do not have maps that I could purchase for my region yet (which is funny, since I can download the map while trialling the software). TomTom is rather smooth on the HD2, the position cursor does not jerk forward when moving. With valid QuickGPS data, getting a GPS fix is faster than on the HD.
The speaker is a little worse than the HD in my opinion, although it's somewhat louder than the HD.
Moving from Resistive (HD) to the Capacitive screen in the HD2 may take some time to get used to it. Drawing/scribbling notes can be hard, so is selecting the directory/folder you want to go to in File Explorer. Maybe it's me, I have large fingers.
Reception compared to the HD, Nokia N82, N95 8GB.
The 3G network I'm on is rather bad in my room.
Nokia N82 and N95 8GB - 4 of 7 bars (estimated equivalent on the HD2 would be 3 of 4 bars)
HTC Touch HD - 1 of 4 bars
HTC Touch HD2 - 3 of 4 bars, sometimes full signal.
The signal bars on the HD2 tend to fluctuate at times, while holding the phone in landscape mode and browsing the internet, the signal may drop to no bars, disconnect from the network, then come back on with 1 or 2 bars.
Camera is great. Autofocus seems to be 'continuous', focusing when the camera is moved or after a few seconds. Shutter lag is much shorter than on the HD, but taking moving subjects may still result in a blurr (cranking up the ISO setting doesn't help much). Sharper than on the HD, and the automatic white balance is definitely better than on the HD under certain lighting conditions. LED Flash works OK for objects further than 30cm most of the time, using it for close ups may sometimes result in a bright, white mess.
I'm using the 1.43 ROM, so some of these issues may be fixed in the updated ROM. There are some issues in TouchFlo/Sense, but they are easily corrected by taking a trip down the Tips & Tricks Post in the Leo Forum.

tbela
I'd used Blackstone for some monthes, and overall I was satisfied. (I'd used Xanny Grid Leo rom)
I've a Leo for a week, and now I'm not simply satisfied but I'm happy with it. The speed, the huge screen and the build quality are fantastic. It's very rear, when I have to fight with small old-fashioned windows controls, but with some patience and practice it is also manageable. Nail-touching definitely doesn't work. Althogh, you can buy capacitive-compatible stylus on ebay.
Only disadvantage for me: fring doesn't work, but I hope it will be fixed soon. Temporarily I use Nimbuzz for chatting.
Overall I can highly recommend the upgrade. If you can do, DO IT!

Thanks very much for all the replies guys. The fact that most of you have written wuite a bit tells me you're very enthusiastic about the phone!
I want one for sure now. The only thing is the cost - I can't renew my contract and there are very few Leos on Ebay and around £500, but only maybe £250 sale proceeds from my HD, so it's quite a hit to take.
If I can get a few quid together to help ease the difference then I'll definitely get one.
Thanks for the comments

Same here, had the HD for about a year and liked it in many respects, the HD2 is a much nicer experience though and if you can afford it at some point I highly recommend to get it.

Well I've made my mind up to get one for sure. The only question really is when.
I'll have to buy an unlocked one on Ebay I think and there are very few on there at the moment because the phone is so new. This is obviously therefore keeping the prices really high.
I'm dying to say 'sod it' and get the credit card out but I know I ought to wait a month or two to see if they get a bit cheaper once more are being sold.
I've read reviews on it and most things I see say that this is basically the best piece of hardware on the market in terms of phones, but that it's "let down/ruined" etc by having winmo on it. I like winmo and have used it for years, so for me, that's a plus!
Having said that, I'd kill to see/have winmo7!

Yep. Those reviews are nonsense.
Powerful hardware like this needs a powerful OS, and WinMo really is by far the most powerful OS you can get.
It doesn't ruin anything. It's the perfect OS for a phone like this.
WinMo bashing is a current trend that you can't do anything against when sites like Gizmodo or Engadget spread the FUD. It's really sad.
I wouldn't want any other OS on the HD2.

maati said:
I wouldn't want any other OS on the HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overall I agree, But Android 2.0 would be very interesting

Well I'm sure I'll be quite happy since it's exactly what I'm used to.
Last phones I've had have been Touch HD, Omnia, XDA Orbit etc - loved them all.
Can't WAIT to get the HD2 though. Especially now I've bought one this afternoon.

Cret said:
Well I'm sure I'll be quite happy since it's exactly what I'm used to.
Last phones I've had have been Touch HD, Omnia, XDA Orbit etc - loved them all.
Can't WAIT to get the HD2 though. Especially now I've bought one this afternoon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Congrats to get this lovely phone. I'd wager you will like it .

Desperate for a new phone with a keyboard but....

I could be persuaded to use this instead?
Whats the on-screen keyboard like? I know the screen is HUGE so i'm guessing the on-screen is fairly big? I need to be able to type fairly fast for taking notes in meetings etc and this is why I normaly buy phones with keyboards.
Thanks!!!
(please be honest, i'm about to spend £400 on this and I don't want that to be a waste of money)

The onscreen keyboard is good, but don't expect magic - if you feel you need a hardware keyboard then you will most likely be disappointed with what the HD2 offers.
In all fairness I never owned a WM phone with a full hardware keyboard, but I still make mistakes on the HD2's virtual keyboard same as I did with the virtual keyboard on my previous phone - so my conclusion is that it's not perfect.
Personally, I find FingerKeyboard better than HTC's anyway, I use that most of the time. Swype is good as well for accuracy but I find typing stuff is a bit slow because you're having to swipe your finger across a huge screen without lifting off to enter words.

I normally prefer hardware keyboards, however I have found that the HD2's screen is fairly large enough to work with. Also, use XT9 and go at it like you don't care if you misspell words, generally it will auto-correct you fairly well.

I personally prefer touchscreen keyboards rather than hardware keybaords, I find hardware keyboards a bit fidly to use.
The HD2 keyboard is pretty good, I think it's as good as the one on iphone, which I have just come from. The keyboard automatically corrects the majority of your mistakes, but you will still make the odd one. However, I also make the odd mistake using any keyboard, such as my laptop. In fact I probably make more errors typing on a PC/laptop keyboard as there is no auto correct function.

there's a thread about this on here somewhere with a lot of people complaining about the keyboard. it seems you either love it or really hate it. I would suggest going in a shop and ask to try it before you buy it. me personally I think its fine but don't take mine or anyone else's word for it, like I said a lot of people hate it, WITH A PASSION!

I owned a touch pro 2, which has the best hardware keyboard out there, and sure i was afraid i'll lose that sweat keyboard, but in the end i can say that i'm happy with the hd2's keyboard. Sure, i'm not as fast as i used to be on my tp2 but still...
I think you will be fine.

I've always had a HW keyboard since 2005, but after a few weeks practice with Swype, I'm very fast and more than happy given it means my phone is much thinner.

thanks for all input guys, very much appreciated!

Some touchscreen keyboards are ok, some are usable and some are good. Don't think that because a touchscreen keyboard on X device is good, therefore the HD2's will be good too. It isn't. It's a pig of a keyboard. Typing on it is one of the most frustrating tasks known to man. Sure it's a great device but you're asking specifically about typing on it.....and typing on it is horrendous. YMMV.

I can Swype faster than a HW keyboard

eskasi said:
I can Swype faster than a HW keyboard
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A lot of people prefer to type rather than sliding their fingers around in a whole new style. It shouldn't be necessary that we have to install new keyboards and get used to whole new styles of inputting text, just because the supplied keyboard isn't up to scratch. Personally I don't want to learn how to 'swype'.

Swype is the best solution for 1 handed typing. I dont see how its better than the regular keyboard unless you prefer to use 1 hand to type all the time.

sunking101 said:
A lot of people prefer to type rather than sliding their fingers around in a whole new style. It shouldn't be necessary that we have to install new keyboards and get used to whole new styles of inputting text, just because the supplied keyboard isn't up to scratch. Personally I don't want to learn how to 'swype'.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Jeez, lighten up - there's nothing to learn, you just swipe your finger on the letters and that's it. If I wanted to type 'jerk' I would put my finger on J, drag to E, then drag to R and finally drag to K and that's it.
Hardly involves a learning curve... plus, that's just one option. If you don't like HTC's keyboard try another normal QWERTY keyboard, nobody's forcing you to try one of these newfangled keyboards. FingerKeyboard is a standard one and works better than HTC's IMO.

I use the standard HTC keyboard. I grip the device with my palms and type using my thumbs. My hands are freaking huge.
I can get approx 30wpm.
The auto-correct feature is simply amazing

I just came from a TYTNII with Hardware keyboard and we VERY worried about getting the HD2 without a keyboard as i type e-mail and SMS from my phone regularly for work purposes. So my choices were the HD2 or Touch Pro 2... The HD2 just had WAY too many PROS compared to the Touch Pro 2, so i took the plunge and got the HD2 and resolved myself to if i can't type well enough, then i'll just put up with the frustration or wait till i get back to the office to reply. Well, i was pleasantly surprised and can type fairly fast, probably SLIGHTLY slower than the hardware keyboard. I also have FAT fingers. I think the capacitive screen and multi-touch work in its favor to make typing a bit better on this phone than a normal (old type) touch screen. So, all in all, VERY happy with the HD2 without hardware keyboard. Oh, and i type in PORTRAIT mode, not Landscape!!! If i could marry my HD2, i would!

stickydonkey said:
If i could marry my HD2, i would!
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Hmm, I think that's in legal in Kentucky actually.

Well, in my country, our president just married his 5th wife with another on the way. He now has 18 children (of his own)! There should be no problems marrying my HD2...

stickydonkey said:
I just came from a TYTNII with Hardware keyboard and we VERY worried about getting the HD2 without a keyboard as i type e-mail and SMS from my phone regularly for work purposes. So my choices were the HD2 or Touch Pro 2... The HD2 just had WAY too many PROS compared to the Touch Pro 2, so i took the plunge and got the HD2 and resolved myself to if i can't type well enough, then i'll just put up with the frustration or wait till i get back to the office to reply. Well, i was pleasantly surprised and can type fairly fast, probably SLIGHTLY slower than the hardware keyboard. I also have FAT fingers. I think the capacitive screen and multi-touch work in its favor to make typing a bit better on this phone than a normal (old type) touch screen. So, all in all, VERY happy with the HD2 without hardware keyboard. Oh, and i type in PORTRAIT mode, not Landscape!!! If i could marry my HD2, i would!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He he nice! I love my HD2 too. I came from a Kaiser as well and my reservation was losing the superb hardware keyboard.
I found the HD2's standard keyboard flawed. The problem isn't the sensitivity as such but the fact that the keys are too small and close together. With an improved design it could be great.
BUT I found my solution, SWYPE! What a god send! I'm actually significantly faster with Swype than I was with my old Kaiser hardware keyboard. It really is that good. I am almost as fast as a PC keyboard.
And as for learning it, well it takes no time. I have demonstrated it to several people who have had a go and within a minute they are Oooing and arrring as they Swype words with ease. It's so intuitive there really is very little learning or adaptation required.

Any former Touch Pro 2 owners with opinions on TP2 v. HD2?

First off I love my TP2. Best phone I have ever owned. But the HD2 looks really really great and I see the term "Best Windows Mobile Phone ever" touted a lot in several reviews. So perhaps you former TP2 owners now that you've had the phone a while can help me decide if it's worth it to upgrade over the TP2. I know people complain about the HD2's battery but I make it through a normal day with 40-50% left on my TP2, so I'm hoping battery isn't an issue. How is the bulk of the phones compare? I use a ultrathin SENA slipcase and keep my phone in my pocket, but the TP2 is so much thicker then the HD2. So you former TP2 owners do you regret going to the HD2 or is it a well worthwhile upgrade?

I own both these phones. I love both phones. Actually, I love TP2 better for work -- the battery life, the ease of data entry. As for HD2, I love the big screen especially. In fact, it is a VERY difficult choice for the two. That is also why I kept both.

The much better GPS is worth it alone. The autofocus on the camera is a lot quicker too. Most programs start up super fast due to the processor. Best move i ever made.

I've had both, and whilst I was happy with the TP2 when I had it, I could never go back. The HD2 is just SO much smoother and fun to use, so much so that I don't mind the lack of a hardware keyboard (my 5 previous phones all had proper keyboards).
The HD2 is a glorious machine, and I am chuffed I got £270 for my TP2, lol!

wait untill a new wp7 series phone is released and keep your tp2 for business ,never upgrade to hd2 now , it is over with it

Ok, let me tell you
In just a couple of hours after purchasing the HD2...i just couldn't stand the TP2. Its so much better than the TP2. If you don't text that much, the HD2 is your best choice. Its incredibly thin, the screen is WOW, its pocketable, its so much faster than the tp2 and you don't have to worry about ram memory. I used to use clean ram and schedule it every 3 hours or so. With the hd2 i always have enough ram.
Trust me, its a no brainer. Go and get it (unless the keyboard is really important to you).

lorin.bute said:
Ok, let me tell you
(unless the keyboard is really important to you).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've found with the big TP2 screen I hardly ever used the hardware keyboard any more. Only other thing I worry about is the accuracy of the capacitive screen when trying to use older programs designed for a stylus. But I don't use a lot of those and not very often (mostly to reg edit, etc).

I don't have a TP2, but I can comment on WHY I didn't get one when it would have been the logical upgrade path for me seen my long history of phones with hardware keyboard, yet got the HD2 as soon as I saw it in real life.
Firstly when I had the TP2 in my hands it really felt like a brick. Large, thick, heavy. Felt like there was a lot of "lost space" (between the keyboard keys, around the screen, that "zoom bar" I'd never find a use for)...
Secondly the speed, it didn't change me from my usual winmo experience that had always been a bit disappointing. As usual, it can do a lot of stuff, but not smoothly. It did show some improvement over my current device (Kaiser), but nothing exceptional.
The HD2 is a whole other story. As soon as you have it in the hand it feels good, perfectly designed, comfortable... the thin form factor and thin borders around the screen make it feel not like a brick of a device that has a screen to interact with, but more like an "intelligent screen" with just what's needed to hold it together, you forget the actual shell. Hard to describe by words. Then the speed, this is now a world of difference, everything is smooth and responsive, nothing in common with any other winmo device before. Then the capacitive screen, which is also a major difference and big step towards that "intelligent screen" feeling, moving things around barely touching the screen etc...
Fell in love right away and sold a bunch of unused things I had laying around in less than a week to buy it.
Yes the lack of hardware keyboard is noticeable, close keys, no tactile feedback so you don't notice when you "slip" to the neighbour key, eats half of the screen when the onscreen keyboard is out... but I must say it's not all that bad. I definitely wouldn't type a book on the HD2, but anyway I don't think I would have on a TP2 either
Just remember that it like any winmo device it needs tweaking to get the best out of it, a small but extremely noticeable one being opera, browsing the web with the default settings is laggy and ugly, while with the 50fps tweak it's perfectly smooth and changes the experience completely. And more of course.
Conclusion, just try one in a store near you, I doubt you'll resist very long

DeoreDX said:
First off I love my TP2. Best phone I have ever owned. But the HD2 looks really really great and I see the term "Best Windows Mobile Phone ever" touted a lot in several reviews. So perhaps you former TP2 owners now that you've had the phone a while can help me decide if it's worth it to upgrade over the TP2. I know people complain about the HD2's battery but I make it through a normal day with 40-50% left on my TP2, so I'm hoping battery isn't an issue. How is the bulk of the phones compare? I use a ultrathin SENA slipcase and keep my phone in my pocket, but the TP2 is so much thicker then the HD2. So you former TP2 owners do you regret going to the HD2 or is it a well worthwhile upgrade?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I loved my TP2 for the sharp display, and excellent in-call sound quality. The HD2 is WAY better with GPS locks, and overall snappiness and operability. One of my favourite features of the HD2 is the dual LED flash. The fact that I couldn't use the TP2 camera in low light was annoying - The HD2 makes photography/video and uploading to social networks a breeze.
The speakers on the HD2 are a bit ****e tbh, but that's a sacrifice I'm happy to live with. Don't care about losing the hw kb, it's actually fun to learn with the on-screen kb and after 2 weeks I think I'm quicker on it.
Also worth mentioning that the stock ROM is pretty damn good too.

My company would pay for a TP2, but instead I spent my own money on an HD2. I've had a TP and friends with TP2. It all comes down to how addicted you are to a hardware keyboard.
If you turn on T9 (essentially spellcheck) and get the hack to turn email sideways, typing on the HD2 is pretty easy and fast. As others would say, I only rap out txt and email on it. If I need to type anything lengthy, I use a laptop.
The HD2 is just fluid. It's press and go. Scrolling is slippery quick. Copilot GPS locks in a snap and scrolls smoother than my TomTom. When screens don't slide quite as smooth as usual, I'll open up TaskMgr to find a screen full of apps I've left open.
Form factor is like holding a picture frame to your head. It's a little awkward at first but the thinness I got used to immediately.
Dual flash camera is great. Presence sensor is SO welcomed. Call clarity is great. Bluetooth reconnects much faster for some reason. And standardized 3.5mm headphone jack and micro USB port.... 'bout time.

willgill said:
My company would pay for a TP2, but instead I spent my own money on an HD2. I've had a TP and friends with TP2. It all comes down to how addicted you are to a hardware keyboard.
If you turn on T9 (essentially spellcheck) and get the hack to turn email sideways, typing on the HD2 is pretty easy and fast. As others would say, I only rap out txt and email on it. If I need to type anything lengthy, I use a laptop.
The HD2 is just fluid. It's press and go. Scrolling is slippery quick. Copilot GPS locks in a snap and scrolls smoother than my TomTom. When screens don't slide quite as smooth as usual, I'll open up TaskMgr to find a screen full of apps I've left open.
Form factor is like holding a picture frame to your head. It's a little awkward at first but the thinness I got used to immediately.
Dual flash camera is great. Presence sensor is SO welcomed. Call clarity is great. Bluetooth reconnects much faster for some reason. And standardized 3.5mm headphone jack and micro USB port.... 'bout time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
let your company pay for tp2 and you get both

Any former TP2 owners want to comment on the relative battery life between the two? I don't think it is an issue with me since I am a fairly light user but with the upcoming US release I'm sure there will be plenty of people looking for this info as well and hopefully this thread will answer most of their questions about the TP2 v. HD2 (My searching on these forums lead to some comparisons but the information was pretty spread out in the forums and took a lot of digging to look up)

I love my TP2 and HD2
I have tweaked my TP2 (WM6.5) using all the tweaks of my HD2. Now I have a HD2 Mini with WVGA. I love the TP2 for the keyboard. Typing on a HD2 is less comfortable. Now I have all the 'goodies' of the TP2 combined with the superb user interface of the HD2.
The tweaked TP2 is as responsive as the HD2, despite its lower speed. The touch screen is very good and precise by use of a stylus or my finger...... Radio of the TP2 is a little more sensitive.

Worth moving from a Tilt2 to HD2 TMOUS?

With TMOUS rumored to be giving away phones on the 19th it may be my chance to bail on AT&T. I know the phone is superior spec-wise but I'm worried about moving from a physical keyboard to on-screen. I played with one at the store and it seemed ok but not great. I have to agree with some posts I've seen on here that the iPhone keyboard seems better, but I've got no plans to buy that PoS. I compose lengthy emails on my phone daily and was wondering if some of you who made the switch from physical keyboard to the HD2 could tell me what you think of it. I'm also not a huge fan of losing so much screen real-estate when typing in landscape which I'll be doing most of the time, so would like your thoughts on that as well.
Thanks.

I had your exact same concern when I upgraded from my Touch Pro 2 (also coming from a Fuze and Dash so I thought I was reeeeally going to miss that keyboard). Instead, I am a big texter. 20,000 sent/received per month. Compared to the iPhone's keyboard (I have an ipod touch so I can accurately compare the two) HTC's kinda sucks. However, after 3 weeks or so I can say I have built up quite some speed. It's like you said, okay, but not great.
The only time I miss a physical keyboard when the predictive text acts wonky. For example, if you try to type too fast itdoessomethinglikethisbutwhy? It got all the words right! How come when I hit space it knows to put that word down and then to predict the next word I'm about to type but it doesn't freaking space? Drives me up the wall. It's almost like you can out-type it.
Or the dreaded ,comma thing it always does ,and it's stupidly annoying.
The real advantage is the beautiful screen. It may not seem amazing at first, but use the HD2 for a week and then try to go back to the TP2. Everything seems...miniaturized.
So, in conclusion, it doesn't beat the iPhone's keyboard but after a few weeks of practice you can probably type at a decent speed. I might miss a physical keyboard sometimes but I don't miss the Touch Pro 2.

Great, thanks for the info. Had a Fuze myself and a Treo before that so a hardware keyboard is kind of ingrained in how I use a phone. Considering your volume of typing seems to be at least as much as mine maybe I could get by with the on-screen.
Thanks for the newbie guide also, very well written. If I do get the phone it'll give me a jumping off point while I research ROMs.