Database Users

Install in Storage Card or Internal Memory?

Where do you guys usually install your apps to? Are there any benefits in installing to the Storage Card vs. installing in the internal memory of the phone?
Is the phone faster if all apps are installed on the storage card?

some apps definitely would not respond well if you install it in the storage card, especially if the app needs to 'wake up' from the power standby, due to the battery saving mode for external storage.
with X1, the phone storage is plenty that it doesn't make any difference for you to install in phone storage versus external. Upon fresh hardreset, my phone would have at least 204MB after deleting away the demo videos, etc. And this is standard ROM, not custom ROM.

Tri3Dent said:
Where do you guys usually install your apps to? Are there any benefits in installing to the Storage Card vs. installing in the internal memory of the phone?
Is the phone faster if all apps are installed on the storage card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The truth is that it is "horses for courses"
If you regard the device as a phone with a bit of residual computer capability, then 300Mb of Storage will last a lifetime
If you regard it as a computer with a phone segment attached, then use the SD card for everything you can. The tnyynt SD tweak for speeding card access is brilliant to the point where I am unable to tell the practical difference between Storage and card use.
I use mine as a work computer with a phone attached. My 16Gb card is already 55% full (ie. just under 9Gb of data and programs) - this cannot fit in Storage.

man what kind of programs and data that you have that takes over 8 gigs on your phone.
music and videos i can understand, programs and data???? i got a 4 gig card and the only program that i have that takes up 1 gig is the maps for tomtom 7.910
hopefully the 32 gig card will be compatable with the x1 in the near future.

c_legaspi said:
man what kind of programs and data that you have that takes over 8 gigs on your phone.
music and videos i can understand, programs and data???? i got a 4 gig card and the only program that i have that takes up 1 gig is the maps for tomtom 7.910
hopefully the 32 gig card will be compatable with the x1 in the near future.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, well 1) as I said, my device is used as a computer with a phone segment attached, so having >8Gb "on my phone" is not really accurate. I have >8Gb on my card (ie. HDD) and growing
2) Music and video ?? None of them, I use hifi and TV for those when I'm home
3) I use the device for geological/geotechnical mapping on a world-wide basis, together with CAD/3D modeling of collected and supplied data. So high-level topo data, drillhole data, outcrop data, survey data, engineering constraints, zillions of reference reports etc etc + the slew of large programs needed to run these data collections
So for me, smaller, faster ROM = better and better
4) you bet I'm hanging out for the 32Gb cards

problem with having too little phone storage is some program use storage as temp
currently i have about 40gb storage free but still
the comic book reader crash often because the .net program in question
unzip the whole comic to some temp dir in phone storage
when it operates and apparently the comic use more then 40gb
would be easy for the programmer to fix so it didn't unzip all or did it to
the sd card but..

I put pretty much all programs that can be installed onto the card on the card... I also have shedloads of files on there mainly for language learning (I am learning Chinese and also have some Russian stuff)... from 16gb I am down to 7.7 and thats only cos I deleted a few tv shows from China...
PS I am reposting this due to the deletion bug thing... I did have a longer post but cant remeber all my witty reply...

flip a coin

Should/can I move apps to storage card?

Hi
I have installed a few programs on my TD2 - all to device rather than storage card - and am getting a little concerned that performance may be suffering. With my prevous device I used SK Tools to move apps to the card - but I'm not 100% clear whether this is good practice.
With nothing running, Settings reports 223.10 MB free for storage (75.29 in use) and 75.87 MD free for programs (108 in use). I have installed things like Sprite Backup and Terminator, ActivePrint, SPB FreeCell, MyLife Organized PocketPC Edition, Resco Sudoku Touch and Gaz TD2 Tools.
Really grateful for any advice.
Thanks

I don't see why installing programs to the device memory should cause performance to suffer? It's only available RAM memory which affects performance, and this remains the same whether you instal to the device or to the card. It's when you open, and leave open, several programs at once that performance suffers.
The nice thing about modern phones is the amount of internal storage, which is plenty for masses of programs. The only performance issue you may have is when downloading large files with Internet Explorer, as I think it uses internal storage as temporary space for the file being downloaded, even if you tell it to save to the memory card. I don't think Opera does this though.
Installing programs to the card means you can't "hot-swap" it unless you're absolutely sure all the programs are closed.

In addition to the above internal phone mem is faster than mem card so performance takes a hit if you use the card.
And you run the risk of more freezes and resets being needed.
It is my firm belief that the use of internal mem avoids a lot of hassles all round by making the phone more stable.
And I almost forgot that internal mem uses less battery power than mem cards.

Easy answer...
Use removable storage for data, on-board storage for apps.
If you have too many apps for on-board storage, consider a slimmer ROM for your phone. Remember on-board storage also works as RAM for your apps, so the more you have available, the more apps you can run.

DeathJester said:
Use removable storage for data, on-board storage for apps.
If you have too many apps for on-board storage, consider a slimmer ROM for your phone. Remember on-board storage also works as RAM for your apps, so the more you have available, the more apps you can run.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd check on that last statement if I were you!
The Topaz has 3 memory areas.
One for flashed ROM.
One for operating RAM.
AND one for storage.
It makes no difference how much you put in storage RAM.
It does make a difference how many apps are running at any one time in operating RAM.
A slimmer ROM image won't make much difference either.
How much of that ROM image is unnecessarily floating around in operating RAM at any one time will make a difference.
Go to settings/system/device information/hardware inforamation
I currently show
RAM size
288 MB
Flash memory size
512 MB
Storage size
342.47 MB
That's a lot of free storage available onboard that is just waiting to be used.
If you go into settings/system/memory you will find storage and program memory values displayed.
Install an app and the in use value of storage memory goes up.
Run an app and the in use value of program memory goes up.
Showing that they are two quite separate physical areas running "independantly" of each other.

Thanks!
Thanks for the helpful responses - much appreciated.
Andrew

werdna72 said:
Thanks for the helpful responses - much appreciated.
Andrew
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Your welcome to any help we can give.

Memory usage

Hello,
Can someone elaborate on what is meant by Storage memory and Program memory?
I would expect storage to be My Docs and Programs to be Windows and so on. I ask since my Storage allocation is two thirds full and all my docs on the device is empty. I use the SD card for that.
Cheers.

rphillip said:
Hello,
Can someone elaborate on what is meant by Storage memory and Program memory?
I would expect storage to be My Docs and Programs to be Windows and so on. I ask since my Storage allocation is two thirds full and all my docs on the device is empty. I use the SD card for that.
Cheers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
-Storage memory is memory used for saving files on you're phone, extention is you're memory card (micro SD).
-Program memory, is like the RAM-memory on you're PC, this is used when running programmes, watching movies-pictures...

Thanks. Well there are two storage areas. "Main" and "Storage Card". My query is for "Main". Within this there is "Storage" and "Program".
I would like to know what is used for what so I can look in a specific area and delete stuff I don't need. Like I said "Storage" seems rather full but I do not store anything on the phone itself. I use the storage card which does not present a problem.

In the storage info on the settings tab, under device it shows "storage" which is like your hard drive, and "program" which is like your RAM. Obviously, you don't actually have a hard drive. It's just an example
There's certain stuff that gets cached on the internal storage, and this can obviously bump up the space that's used (there's threads on here for cleaning/moving these things). Then there's the other culprit - Marketplace. If you've installed stuff from there, it's on internet memory, not your storage card. Also, do you install software to the device, or to the storage card? I only put essential stuff on the device, and stuff that I can live without on the storage card.
Just thoughts and suggestions.

johncmolyneux said:
In the storage info on the settings tab, under device it shows "storage" which is like your hard drive, and "program" which is like your RAM. Obviously, you don't actually have a hard drive. It's just an example
There's certain stuff that gets cached on the internal storage, and this can obviously bump up the space that's used (there's threads on here for cleaning/moving these things). Then there's the other culprit - Marketplace. If you've installed stuff from there, it's on internet memory, not your storage card. Also, do you install software to the device, or to the storage card? I only put essential stuff on the device, and stuff that I can live without on the storage card.
Just thoughts and suggestions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ah ok that explains a little then. I have been installing cabs to the device.

Do not understand; my total storage memory is 181,23MB, in use is 175,21MB, but when I check in explorer, there is only 89MB in use. What am I missing here??
Also, what does it mean program storage - total space 336,97MB?
Flash size 512MB, RAM size 448MB, what is the difference?

Its rather more complex than it ought to be, and HTC are being a little 'economical' with the truth!
It has 512MB of total storage, of which about 175MB is taken up by the ROM image. This leaves the 337MB you see reported. Of this, about 150MB is taken up by the HTC Sense system, then another chunk by the video memory leaving around 135MB free to the user. The new 'Light' custom ROMs without HTC Sense have over 300MB free to the user.
The 448MB RAM is just that- same as a PCs RAM. Even after loading the OS on startup there is ample ROM left for pretty much any eventuality!

resizing Program memory to increase Storage memory

After installing many apps in main phone memory, the Storage memory (left side on settings > memory) shrinks to less than 40MB, while plenty (and unused) Program memory is there (195MB) (right side)
Is there a way to resize these 2 main phone memories to increase efficiency?
Thanks
Saulo

I remember that in previous version on WM there was a slider to move memory from one side to another.
But this was lost here in WM 6.5.5...

are there commercial or free applications capable to do the job? Ramdisk?
It mus be working on wm 6.5.5
Thanks and waiting

what you are remembering is a time when the memory used was totally different type to what we have now.
so no is the answer, there's no way of doing it.
Uninstall some of your apps, and reinstall them to storage card, that will free up some memory, as will clearing the caches in PIE and Opera (as well as moving the cache to the storage card for opera).

Thanks Fards
Sorry to hear that...but are you aware what ihibit, prevents the memory from being resizable?
Thanks
Saulo

saulo866 said:
Thanks Fards
Sorry to hear that...but are you aware what ihibit, prevents the memory from being resizable?
Thanks
Saulo
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
program and system memory used to be the same memory, and you could decide how much of it was for program and how much for system. When the phone ran out of battery, it would cause a hard reset, and all your data would be lost.
Now we have a phone with two different types of memory. If your battery dies you do NOT lose your data, because the system memory is flash memory, whilst the program memory is true RAM that is cleared when you restart.
Think of your PC, you have a hard disk, and RAM, and you cannot resize the hard disk to use RAM as more hard disk space.

Yes. That's true but the main reason was that the whole thing was like RAM at these times... and we were losing everything when the battery was running out of power.
Some PDA's like HP for instance was delivered with backup batteries to prevent such complete loss and give extra time.
As from WM5.0 if my memory is good, the resident memory came up at last, to make things better.
Today, we have storage RAM which acts exactly like the hard disk of a PC and the program memory which acts exactly like the RAM of our PCs. The physical difference is the main reason that you can not slide anything between storage and RAM.
The suggestion for installing apps on SDcard can save you a big amount of storage RAM indeed. But do not forget the impact on speed: apps will load (and exit) slower on SD card. Try and see.
saulo866 said:
I remember that in previous version on WM there was a slider to move memory from one side to another.
But this was lost here in WM 6.5.5...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Yes G3K
I am loading on SD card ONLY those programs which I use rarely and in which speed is not an issue. But the more speed-demanding applications I prefer to locate on RAM, since much faster...
Thanks for your insights
Saulo

Internal Memory Full - How could that happen?

Hi i have my HTC HD2, relativly new one, i have installed stuff ofcourse to it, and always picked memory card cause i know the internal memory aint so greate, anyway when i go into remove programs there are lots of stuff but are they the ones that are installed to internal and not external? i removed little that oly gave me like 600k more but that affect the internal.
And i know that you wondering whats the problem beside my memory is full,
the problem is i always like i said before pick to install to external cause of memory, how can then my internal be full?
like 3 of 30 stuff i could pick myself where to install.
So someone plz help me? i know i neeed to like reinstall the device and install everything again.
I have like skype, tomtom, hd2 tweak, games hdwall bu i iunistall case it didt work. etc.
sorry for my english

I think your main problem is HTCAlbum cache
go to application data-->htc-->htc album and check how much space occupies the cache folder
In some cases it's larger than 10 mb
So, if it is the problem, you can cancel the cache and then try this tip
Another possible problem could be the cache (or temp files) of other programs, such as opera, internet explorer, google maps and so on
One advice for saving more space in the internal memory:
if you don't use copilot and navipanel, you can remove the copilot folder from the folder "program files": it occupies almost 14 mb
regards

Ok i will try but it seems as the internal memry goes full everytim i insall stuff even i i pick memory card, i will soon reset it and do it over again and check + do the things you advice me to.
just questions about it
if i cancel the cache does it make album slower?
ty in advance

if i cancel the cache does it make album slower?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe a little bit...but I don't notice this problem with the mod I adviced you.
...and for your problem...
Before you think to Hard-reset your device, You have to know that when you install a program, even if you install to the microsd, a piece of the install information goes on the internal memory anyway (and occupies some memory space, obviously)
regards

ok, here is what to do;
1. install total commander to phone memory (not sd card)
2. eject sd card
3. on total commander file>find files then find files greater than the default 64k or or 1mb if you want the search to be quicker
4. click on 'size' to sort files into descending order
5. delete or copy any unwanted files
in my case i had some videos that were already on my pc, so i deleted them.

Ok i will try i have movies and pic but are they by default placed on sd card? anyway i think mine are but they arenot taking upp space on the intern? like installed programs.
forgat to quote but i answerd you xboxdevil

qllkevuoi said:
maybe a little bit...but I don't notice this problem with the mod I adviced you.
...and for your problem...
Before you think to Hard-reset your device, You have to know that when you install a program, even if you install to the microsd, a piece of the install information goes on the internal memory anyway (and occupies some memory space, obviously)
regards
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok same as on computers, but that means they are limited stuff you can have on your phones and i mean i dont have so much, standard win 6.5 sense and changed icons, installs tweaks and some games like 10 :S thats bad, i want the at&t version wtf thanks anyway for the answers

toxicstone said:
Hi i have my HTC HD2, relativly new one, i have installed stuff ofcourse to it, and always picked memory card cause i know the internal memory aint so greate, anyway when i go into remove programs there are lots of stuff but are they the ones that are installed to internal and not external? i removed little that oly gave me like 600k more but that affect the internal.
And i know that you wondering whats the problem beside my memory is full,
the problem is i always like i said before pick to install to external cause of memory, how can then my internal be full?
like 3 of 30 stuff i could pick myself where to install.
So someone plz help me? i know i neeed to like reinstall the device and install everything again.
I have like skype, tomtom, hd2 tweak, games hdwall bu i iunistall case it
didt work. etc.
sorry for my english
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have never been able to understand why people won't use internal storage!
I have 27 apps installed and this leaves me with 127Mb free which would allow a further minimum of 20 more that I could install assuming an average size.
Why would I want to install to mem card?
It's slower, causes difficulties of all sorts and the internal mem was designed to be used for your apps in the first place.

Although I understand what you are saying pa49 I personally install on my sd card so that
A) I can move from one to another phone if needed or
B) If I have to hard reset then I dont have to load the apps up again when I restore a backup
C) makes backing up and restoring the phone faster and smaller
D) I make a backup of my sd card so that if somthing goes wrong its all there.
I think its a personal preference. I dont fine that my phone is slower or faster one way or the other.

InRBigness said:
Although I understand what you are saying pa49 I personally install on my sd card so that
A) I can move from one to another phone if needed or
B) If I have to hard reset then I dont have to load the apps up again when I restore a backup
C) makes backing up and restoring the phone faster and smaller
D) I make a backup of my sd card so that if somthing goes wrong its all there.
I think its a personal preference. I dont fine that my phone is slower or faster one way or the other.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I know all these arguments.
But we don't (as a rule) use our PCs this way.
It would not be good practise to install all your PC apps on an external hard drive.
If you applied your four points you'd end up with a mess and I don't see our phones as any different.
We expect our phones to function robustly and then we go out of our way to destabalise the whole thing.
I just don't get it.
This thread
http://www.google.com/support/forum/p/Google Mobile/thread?tid=1163588d699c01d4&hl=en
is just one example of what can happen and the problems were solved by installing on the phone mem!
"Sounds like for at least some folks, installing on phone memory successfully works around this. If you'd prefer to not use phone memory, I'd also try borrowing or buying another memory card as it is potentially due to a portion of your old memory card being corrupted." Quote from Google employee.
What should be most allarming, to those who install to mem card, is the statement, "it is potentially due to a portion of your old memory card being corrupted".
This is the very reason why I always install to phone mem, reinstall all apps after a ROM flash or hard reset and limit my mem cards to only storage of data.
It's not a personal preference.
It just makes sense.