Database Users

Should I buy an Athena or have I missed the boat?

I've been buying HTC devices every year since the very first XDA came out. It seems to get harder each year to choose a device as more choice becomes available. I don't think the Athena was out last year (or only just out and a bit out of my price range) so it wasn't really a consideration.
Anyway I went for an Orbit/Armatis which I've really enjoyed, it has just about everything I need. Perhaps the only improvements I would make is 3G, VGA, more memory, faster processor and I do like the sound of the tv-out. So sounds like the Athena is still on the cards.
I'm just a bit worried I've missed the boat. What I mean is, is it a bit outdated now? Will they bring out a smaller/lighter version soon?
Other questions you could answer for me are as follows..
How have you all coped with the size?
For those of you using them as phone (rather than a umpc) how have they stood upto being in your pocket (without the case/keyboard)
I've heard they're not too good playing Divx movies (700mb variety). Is this true. Will the Roms available here correct this?
Any more advice great fully received.
Many thanks
DannyBoy

Now is good many peoploe are looking for something new Umpc's, Asus eee or shift type things and a few going on ebay mine will be gone soon i expect but its a great device if ur using as a phone a lot get a good BT headset like LG Style-i

Id recommend it, as long as you wanted a mini-pc, rather than a phone. The internet features, harddisk, screen, and connectivity options really tick all the boxes, and the enhanced roms really improve the product.
If you want to use it as a phone, be prepared to use a BT headset or the wired option, or the speakerphone. I can't fault it on sound quality, but if you're a pub regular, you'll feel like a bit of a tit having it on your belt or in your pocket. Either that, or face swapping your sim out to another more portable phone. Luckily I've got a work mobile as well, so I can take that out with me.
The TV out is pretty good as is the VGA, provided you're not putting it on too large a screen (only 640x480 res). But is ok on my work monitor, watching last nights telly programme that I missed, or a film. One thing to be wary of, is that you MUST run the movies off the Microdrive (or memory). If you try and play it off a USB keyfob, its just too slow to support it. MP3's are ok (although can take a fair few seconds to load).
All in all, it comes down to if you want a mini-pc, or a phone with PDA functionality.

the size took quite a bit of getting used to but once u get the feel of its awsome w/the 5" touch screen.i use my jabra bt8010 and its probably the best bluetooth stereo headset for the athena coz its got a caller ID and vibrate.i usually keep the athena in a pouch or in my pocket.i dont use the case since it makes it fatter and kind of akward to hold.playing divx,xvid,flv..etc videos are great on the athena.there are specific settings to be made in TCPMP and once they are set ur good to go.ive never had any problems playing videos after making the settings.just make sure u go look for a demo or someone with on and test it out for a while and try to get a feel for it.hope this helps

If you're mainly looking for a phone, I suggest you look elsewhere. But if you want internet on the move, this is just about the only device in the market currently. The smaller screens may be VGA, but the're too small to run REALVGA program. REALVGA is one of the greatest improvements to WM6's useability. If I have access to a notebook, I would of course prefer to use that to surf internet. But on the road, do I want to carry a ASUS eee with me just to surf internet or would I prefer to just carry an Athena? The answer is clearly Athena. But please don't expect the speed and functionality of a full web browser like some do.
Besides the large VGA screen, the presence of harddisk AND MicroSDHC is also brings about benefits that no other devices AFAIK can offer. By installing all your programs in the Microdrive, you give yourself the ability to swap the MicroSDHC (currently 8GB each max) in and out. I place all my musics, pictures, and videos on MicroSDHC. This means I have UNLIMITED storage capacity. Currently I have close to 80 applications on my microdrive, and uses less than 10% of microdrive's capacity.
GPS works great on screen of this size, although it looks good enough on smaller screen.
Another application of mine that works great on this 5 inch screen is Meta Trader 4, which displays chart of shares, currencies, commodities. The ability to know what's happening to your investments anywhere anytime is just fantastic.
Carrying it around has not been an issue for me. I have a home made belt pouch with velcro flap. I carry the device without keyboard, as a software keyboard called Tengo is far better than the hardware keyboard anyway.
I don't have any issue using the phone even without bluetooth headset, but others prefer to use it with one. Someone just posted a wristwatch styled headset which should complement this device perfectly. Google "bluevision watch" and you will be able to read more about this.
I don't have any issue with playing videos. It looks excellent from my perspective (always smooth and clear), although some think that it is crap, something I could never never understand. I don't compare that with my home theatre system's quality.
Next comes the camera. Its quality under bright daylight is excellent, but in indoor situation it is a bit lacking.
MP3 plays very very well on this device. Battery life is reasonably long. Depending on the use, about a quarter of people polled in another thread run it down in less than one day, a quarter in one day, a quarter in two days.. something like that.
In summary, this is the best convergent device in the market with the most ideal size imaginable. HTC SHIFT has got the size completely wrong IMHO. It is too big to be carried around 24/7 whereas Athea is not.
I've been a very very satisfied owner for about 9 months now. If I lost it today, my next phone is still going to be Athena, of course, unless they come up with a skinnier and lighter version, with FM radio, TV tuner, and infra, without reducing the size of the screen.

Thankyou for giving such detailed opinions guys. It is much appreciated.
I think i'll get one but probably second hand rather than start a new contract.
Looking forward to playing with the Rom's in here. they look great.

The athena is a cracking device, but for me it was a case of it falling between two devices and not doing either as well as they could be done.
too small to be a laptop and too big to be fone
so i have gone down the separate small fone and small laptop route.
i found after a while the phone function just became a pain in the bum and i actually wanted XP and not WM6 functionality

spacecat said:
The athena is a cracking device, but for me it was a case of it falling between two devices and not doing either as well as they could be done.
too small to be a laptop and too big to be fone
so i have gone down the separate small fone and small laptop route.
i found after a while the phone function just became a pain in the bum and i actually wanted XP and not WM6 functionality
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Click to collapse
And I'm the opposite - I want a machine for instant email access and web access with GPS etc which I can carry. I ahve a computer at work and at home.
The truth is, I'm afraid, you're going to have to make up your own mind! It is a big device but very usable (especially with a bluetooth headset). Everyone has their own opinion of it / uses for it but they may not match yours.

if you use the GPS function in a car its a no brainer, as its nearly as a cheap as a decent satnav and can do a lot more.
otherwise ..like he said

spacecat said:
if you use the GPS function in a car its a no brainer, as its nearly as a cheap as a decent satnav and can do a lot more.
otherwise ..like he said
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GPS in a car does not meet my need. Only a mobile one allows me to find direction after parking my car. You don't have to drive to enjoy the benefits. I use it to find points of interest such as restaurants . I use it while walking downtown to get to unfamiliar places rather than carrying a heavy streets directory.
Only a mobile one lets me play golf with a golf GPS software, telling me how far I'm from water hazards, from green, from trees, etc.
Only mobile GPS allows me to bring it overseas.
Also, after trying out a few 'dedicated' GPS, they are just inferior to mobile ones in terms of functionality.
Sure you can tell me that there are dedicated mobile GPS around which can satisfy my needs. But how many devices do you want to carry? For me, I want to take with me only one convergent device. I don't want a dedicated phone, another dedicated GPS, another dedicated web surfing subnotebook, another dedicated mp3 player, another camera, another video recorder. I'm sure there are people who fervently wants the best equipment dedicated to every single task, but that's their choice. I'm very happy to have made the Athena choice and sticking with it until a better convergent device comes along.

eaglesteve said:
GPS in a car does not meet my need. Only a mobile one allows me to find direction after parking my car. You don't have to drive to enjoy the benefits. I use it to find points of interest such as restaurants . I use it while walking downtown to get to unfamiliar places rather than carrying a heavy streets directory.
Only a mobile one lets me play golf with a golf GPS software, telling me how far I'm from water hazards, from green, from trees, etc.
Only mobile GPS allows me to bring it overseas.
Also, after trying out a few 'dedicated' GPS, they are just inferior to mobile ones in terms of functionality.
Sure you can tell me that there are dedicated mobile GPS around which can satisfy my needs. But how many devices do you want to carry? For me, I want to take with me only one convergent device. I don't want a dedicated phone, another dedicated GPS, another dedicated web surfing subnotebook, another dedicated mp3 player, another camera, another video recorder. I'm sure there are people who fervently wants the best equipment dedicated to every single task, but that's their choice. I'm very happy to have made the Athena choice and sticking with it until a better convergent device comes along.
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? im referrering to the GPS system in the Athena

Let's not forget I've had it built into a device literally half the size of the Athena for a year so its not really a selling point for the Athena.

Have you seen this? ...7501!
http://www.tigerdirect.com/applications/SearchTools/item-details.asp?EdpNo=3153290&Sku=H224-1010

As an ex Clie pda user, I have ditched the little keyboard and use the WM6 version of graffiti text input, and have never looked back at the keyboard again. With the supplied leather case, it improves portability so much it can fit into the back of my jeans pocket.
Haven't loaded gps, but will in the coming year.
A must is the Jabra bt8010 for stereo bluetooth, and phone use, so you don't have to pull out the athena everytime. Otherwise you are using the speaker phone to talk to people, not the best.
I would have to say, if you want the screen size, the Athena is hard to beat when you look at the spec sheet. Most UMPC's don't have a cell phone built in. Most cell phones don't have a big screen that give you pda functionality.
I would say the only other alternatives is the HTC Touch, if you can live with the smaller screen size.
My only gripes on the Athena:
Video performance @30fps is BAD
Occasional A2DP stereo bluetooth skips, A2DP is so good I would never use an iPhone or iPod or any phone without it again!
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If they come out with an Athena2, this is what I would like to see:
Solid State Hard Disc of at least 32GB
Solid video performance
Drop the keyboard - it scared away a lot of people with the gimmicky magnet attachment and small useless size.
To sum up, if you like the large screen of the PDA's (480x320), and love pda functionality, then you will like the Athena. It lets me carry only one device.
DON'T FORGET THAT THE CES SHOW IS ONLY A MONTH AWAY, there could be a new device that manages to top the Athena there, lets hope it is the Athena 2!

keithwwalker said:
As an ex Clie pda user, I have ditched the little keyboard and use the WM6 version of graffiti text input, and have never looked back at the keyboard again. With the supplied leather case, it improves portability so much it can fit into the back of my jeans pocket.
Haven't loaded gps, but will in the coming year.
A must is the Jabra bt8010 for stereo bluetooth, and phone use, so you don't have to pull out the athena everytime. Otherwise you are using the speaker phone to talk to people, not the best.
I would have to say, if you want the screen size, the Athena is hard to beat when you look at the spec sheet. Most UMPC's don't have a cell phone built in. Most cell phones don't have a big screen that give you pda functionality.
I would say the only other alternatives is the HTC Touch, if you can live with the smaller screen size.
My only gripes on the Athena:
Video performance @30fps is BAD
Occasional A2DP stereo bluetooth skips, A2DP is so good I would never use an iPhone or iPod or any phone without it again!
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
If they come out with an Athena2, this is what I would like to see:
Solid State Hard Disc of at least 32GB
Solid video performance
Drop the keyboard - it scared away a lot of people with the gimmicky magnet attachment and small useless size.
To sum up, if you like the large screen of the PDA's (480x320), and love pda functionality, then you will like the Athena. It lets me carry only one device.
DON'T FORGET THAT THE CES SHOW IS ONLY A MONTH AWAY, there could be a new device that manages to top the Athena there, lets hope it is the Athena 2!
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Click to collapse
I agree with your wishlist. I'd add to that TV tuner, FM radio, infra. Would also be nice to shed some weight and thickness.
I hope there is an Athena 2 soon. This is a wonderful size for a convergent device.

Just a reiteration here, but it is about personal preference. I tried to get along with the athena with pks rom, and although it was noticeably better than before it still didn't quite do it for me. I had constant complaints about the quality of voice calls using the speaker phone, and although a bluetooth headset worked fine, for me it still wasn't as practical as i would've liked. I went back yesterday to an n95, and bought a nokia n800 for portable browsing and email (although the n95 is more than capable here anyway). The two combined cost me about the price of an athena, and for my personal needs they work together to give a superior experience. The n95s gps locks on much quicker than the athena's so is in many ways a more practical device to use for personal navigation - especially with google maps' integration of the internal gps. The browser on the n95 is also better than pocket internet explorer, but when required i have the unbeatable os2008 browser to hand with the n800. Nokia have also just released a firmware update for the n95 which makes everything snappy and enjoyable - how it should have been all along really! The only thing i really miss about the athena is texting on a big screen. For some reason i really enjoyed that. The wmwifirouter app was useful too, though that's not exclusive to the athena. I think among the current fold of handsets the only thing that sets the athena apart is the screen size. There is nothing else on the device that can't be seen elsewhere. It just didn't cut the mustard for me as i had to persevere too much and it was a little embarrassing to use, but as they say - each to their own. One final point i will make is that i DON'T THINK the athena is a good convergence device. It provides no more than a big screen. Video performance is often shoddy, browsing does not offer full internet, the camera is pretty crap and usb host is only really of use for hid and playing music\photos. Aside from the large screen, usb host and touchscreen the n95 8gb offers: better multimedia playback (multi codec with coreplayer), a far superior camera, with shockingly better video recording functionality, integrated gps which locks on quicker than the athena and a quicker browser which allows effortless access to all but flash sites (soon to be remedied. With flash lite 3.0).. If the athena is a convergance device then the n95 8gb is just as good, particularly given it's size. You can even use a bluetooth keyboard with it. P.s. I typed all this on an n95 and it was a piece of cake!.

leoni1980 said:
Just a reiteration here, but it is about personal preference. I tried to get along with the athena with pks rom, and although it was noticeably better than before it still didn't quite do it for me. I had constant complaints about the quality of voice calls using the speaker phone, and although a bluetooth headset worked fine, for me it still wasn't as practical as i would've liked. I went back yesterday to an n95, and bought a nokia n800 for portable browsing and email (although the n95 is more than capable here anyway). The two combined cost me about the price of an athena, and for my personal needs they work together to give a superior experience. The n95s gps locks on much quicker than the athena's so is in many ways a more practical device to use for personal navigation - especially with google maps' integration of the internal gps. The browser on the n95 is also better than pocket internet explorer, but when required i have the unbeatable os2008 browser to hand with the n800. Nokia have also just released a firmware update for the n95 which makes everything snappy and enjoyable - how it should have been all along really! The only thing i really miss about the athena is texting on a big screen. For some reason i really enjoyed that. The wmwifirouter app was useful too, though that's not exclusive to the athena. I think among the current fold of handsets the only thing that sets the athena apart is the screen size. There is nothing else on the device that can't be seen elsewhere. It just didn't cut the mustard for me as i had to persevere too much and it was a little embarrassing to use, but as they say - each to their own. One final point i will make is that i DON'T THINK the athena is a good convergence device. It provides no more than a big screen. Video performance is often shoddy, browsing does not offer full internet, the camera is pretty crap and usb host is only really of use for hid and playing music\photos. Aside from the large screen, usb host and touchscreen the n95 8gb offers: better multimedia playback (multi codec with coreplayer), a far superior camera, with shockingly better video recording functionality, integrated gps which locks on quicker than the athena and a quicker browser which allows effortless access to all but flash sites (soon to be remedied. With flash lite 3.0).. If the athena is a convergance device then the n95 8gb is just as good, particularly given it's size. You can even use a bluetooth keyboard with it. P.s. I typed all this on an n95 and it was a piece of cake!.
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Sorry, I disagree that web browsing and emailing experience is even practical at all with N95. The device is just too tiny for such purposes. I went to the shop and asked the assistant to demo it. It is way way too slow for once. The screen shows a small portion of that Athena would have shown. The input with the keypad is completely unacceptable and unpleasant.
I hate to say this, while I understand your desire to find a better browser and email client on Athena, I don't think N95 is a better one.

eaglesteve said:
Sorry, I disagree that web browsing and emailing experience is even practical at all with N95. The device is just too tiny for such purposes. I went to the shop and asked the assistant to demo it. It is way way too slow for once. The screen shows a small portion of that Athena would have shown. The input with the keypad is completely unacceptable and unpleasant.
I hate to say this, while I understand your desire to find a better browser and email client on Athena, I don't think N95 is a better one.
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I think that was too polite.
Leoni, you can't seriously be suggesting that a buggy S60 phone with a tiny screen and a gimmicky media player is even close to the Athena. My other half has an N95 and even she (a gadget hater!) thinks it is a dysfunctional version of the Iphone (now that is quite an insult, coming from her!). The only good think about it is the camera.
Leoni is right, it is about personal preference. But iof you want decent browsing, decent email, decent screen size, decent satnav, the N95 is most certainly not the way to go. Sorry.

a viewty and an EEE pc thats the way to do it

spacecat said:
a viewty and an EEE pc thats the way to do it
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my brother just got the viewty, nice camera but the rest sucks lol

Imagine a perfect device...

What kind of device would it take to make you leave touch HD and switch to something new?
I've been looking at some of the latest generation devices popping out (from various manufacturers) and I have to say I have not been not one bit tempted to make the switch.
So, for some future imaginary HTC device, here's what I'd like to see addressed:
Hardware related:
1. Illuminated hardware touch sensitive keys. I really hate this isn't present on Touch HD. A tinly LED would solve this and make the device much more usable in the dark.
2. More hardware keys. Perhaps a camera button, or simply few "blank" buttons that users can customize. A scroll wheel would be awesome.
3. A better visual indicator of received / missed calls and messages. That tiny LED on power button is hardly noticeable. They should've placed it on front side.
4. More easier way to soft-reset and swap memory cards. Perhaps dual memory card slots.
5. Make the device slightly more responsive, either by increasing memory / processor speed, or optimizing the bundled software. If ROM chefs can do it, I guess HTC can too.
6. FLASHLIGHT LED (This should've been the first on the list )
7. Add multi-touch.
8. Video output would be nice.
9. Make an accessory that would serve as a small portable and detachable Bluetooth keyboard. I can't figure out why HTC doesn't offer this. Is it so hard to rip out the keyboard from say new Touch Pro 2 and put a battery and Bluetooth chip inside that would work as a HID interface device?
SOFTWARE RELATED
1. Proper drivers that support hardware video acceleration.
2. Complete overhaul of Touch Flo 3D. Make it skinnable, make it highly user-configurable, integrate it even deeper over ugly WinMo.
3. Fix the annoying bugs.
4. Add default Divx and Xvid support. For a device with word "HD" in it's name, and such a big screen, this really should've been done long ago.
I'll leave other ideas to you

I like where you are going with this. However we all know that the "perfect" device will never be made due to the fact that people will then have no reason to purchase anything new unless hardware tech increases.
They aren't going to bundle everything you have said in there due to the compromise they would have to make between power/battery life/useability.
However I'd almost like to see a cut down version of this...iPhone like I suppose. Only offer 10 features or so (good overlay of SMS, Email, web browsing layers) but do it almost seamlessly without the need for using WinMo standards (such as SMS etc..). Get those right and provide a sleek, slim, portable, and cheaper device.
The one thing I hate is the fact that I have a front camera on the touch hd but hardly any software to take advantage of it in terms of video calling....renders it useless.

Wiggz said:
I like where you are going with this. However we all know that the "perfect" device will never be made due to the fact that people will then have no reason to purchase anything new unless hardware tech increases.
They aren't going to bundle everything you have said in there due to the compromise they would have to make between power/battery life/useability.
However I'd almost like to see a cut down version of this...iPhone like I suppose. Only offer 10 features or so (good overlay of SMS, Email, web browsing layers) but do it almost seamlessly without the need for using WinMo standards (such as SMS etc..). Get those right and provide a sleek, slim, portable, and cheaper device.
The one thing I hate is the fact that I have a front camera on the touch hd but hardly any software to take advantage of it in terms of video calling....renders it useless.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with you in some aspects. Yes their will never be a perfect phone as everyone has different opinions on what the perfect phone is. So what may be perfect to you, may be no where near perfect for me etc. Thats why there will always be a wide variety of phones.
I disagree with you on manufacturers bundling everything into phones as that is what is currently being implemented by all manufacturers. Phones nowadays aren't just a phone they have cameras, radios, mp3 players, navigational apps like tomtom, tv tuners, personal organisers etc. Why have one of each when you can have one in all. This is what the customer wants and the manufacturers are realising this and are already producing devices with this already built in. With time the quality of these devices will improve.....but there will always be room for improvement. This is why we will never be happy IMO. For example. If you go out and buy a 50 inch plasma tv. Next year a better model will e available and you will want it instead etc etc etc.
Thats my 2 cents anyhow!!

Happy to say that people share the same thought. at least it is one step closer to be perfect.

Wiggz said:
I like where you are going with this. However we all know that the "perfect" device will never be made due to the fact that people will then have no reason to purchase anything new unless hardware tech increases.
They aren't going to bundle everything you have said in there due to the compromise they would have to make between power/battery life/useability.
However I'd almost like to see a cut down version of this...iPhone like I suppose. Only offer 10 features or so (good overlay of SMS, Email, web browsing layers) but do it almost seamlessly without the need for using WinMo standards (such as SMS etc..). Get those right and provide a sleek, slim, portable, and cheaper device.
The one thing I hate is the fact that I have a front camera on the touch hd but hardly any software to take advantage of it in terms of video calling....renders it useless.
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Click to collapse
I'm not sure a "perfect" device will never be made. There were some in the past that would pretty much fit into "perfect" category, based on their market position and "features vs. price vs. usability".
Also, I do not advocate putting everything into every device, but as you know, Touch HD is sitting pretty much at the top of the food chain when it comes to Windows Mobile devices. So, it's logical that it's feature pack will be bigger then the devices placed lower. I don't even want to throw in the average mobile phones in here.
My ideas are mostly very easy to implement / improve. For example, lets take a look at the Touch HD camera. They packed inside a 5 megapixel camera that takes rather ****ty photos even in perfect conditions, and they left out a LED flashlight. Wouldn't you rather have a LED flash and 3 megapixel camera that takes decent photos? Not to mention that the flashlight can also be used as a torch light in everyday situations.
Battery life on Touch HD is actually best out of all 2008. touch screen devices. Believe it or not, but you'll actually squeeze 30 minutes more battery out of Touch HD then out of famous iPhone, and the rest of the touchscreen gang isn't even close! I would gladly give up 10-15% battery life for an illuminated hardware keys and a flashlight and pay equally bigger end price.

Rozenthal said:
My ideas are mostly very easy to implement / improve. For example, lets take a look at the Touch HD camera. They packed inside a 5 megapixel camera that takes rather ****ty photos even in perfect conditions, and they left out a LED flashlight. Wouldn't you rather have a LED flash and 3 megapixel camera that takes decent photos? Not to mention that the flashlight can also be used as a torch light in everyday situations.
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Agree with you there mate, though I don't think a compromise on camera i.e. 3 MP with flashlight is the way forward. Look at Samsung for instance. They are able to provide 8MP cameras with autofocus and flashlight. Why can't HTC follow suit? Instead they keep throwing out 3.2MP with flashlight. I heard there next release is still only 5MP. Why not try and leap infront of their competitors? Its this kind of thing which irritates me

Fallen Spartan said:
Agree with you there mate, though I don't think a compromise on camera i.e. 3 MP with flashlight is the way forward. Look at Samsung for instance. They are able to provide 8MP cameras with autofocus and flashlight. Why can't HTC follow suit? Instead they keep throwing out 3.2MP with flashlight. I heard there next release is still only 5MP. Why not try and leap infront of their competitors? Its this kind of thing which irritates me
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Ah, well, the reason for Samsung offering some pretty damn good phone cameras is simple: they already have a strong photo / video department within their company. Heck, they even have an SLR photo cameras, not to mention quite decent compact cameras.
So, with that technology already being developed and implemented within the house, it's much more simpler for them to throw out devices with 8 megapixel cameras and autofocus and xeon flashlight.
HTC is (s)lacking in this area.

Rozenthal said:
Ah, well, the reason for Samsung offering some pretty damn good phone cameras is simple: they already have a strong photo / video department within their company. Heck, they even have an SLR photo cameras, not to mention quite decent compact cameras.
So, with that technology already being developed and implemented within the house, it's much more simpler for them to throw out devices with 8 megapixel cameras and autofocus and xeon flashlight.
HTC is (s)lacking in this area.
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Click to collapse
Yes to some extent, but I think thats to easy an excuse personally. The technology is out there and easily copied between manufactuers and competitors. All you would need to do is go out and buy some camera, take it apart and learn how it worked. How long have cameras been around, and HTC is japanese. Aren't they supposed to be the best at compact electronics??

2 Years ago when I got my Prophet I thought about the same topic.
At that time I wanted a bigger screen with a higher resolution, a 3,5mm audio jack and a faster processor. When the HD came I thought it would be the perfect device for me but now I want other things.
The most annoying thing of the HD is the lack of Hardware keys and D-PAD.
I used them all the time with my Prophet and many programs need them or are much more usable with D-PAD and real hardware buttons. I've always asked myself why HTC gave the HD only 2 Hardware Keys. It may have the touch keys but they aren't usable when the screen is off and you press them sometimes by mistake and they aren't really usable at night.
They could just take a look at some old devices and see what they did better with them. For example the reset key. On my Prophet it was easy accessible without the need to remove the cover. The same with the SD card.
One good thing is that you can change the SIM while the device is running. It isn't easy because there is a pin that should prevent it but with some force you can take out the SIM without taking out the battery. So why can't they make the SIM easy changeable if possible even without the need of removing the cover.
The camera is bad but I haven't seen a really good camera from HTC yet. The only thing it can better than most other camera phones is taking videos because it doesn't use 3gp but that is everything good there is to the camera of the HD. And they could make the camera much better only by putting in a flash because without much light the camera of the HD isn't usable.

Fallen Spartan said:
HTC is japanese. Aren't they supposed to be the best at compact electronics??
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HTC aren't Japanese as far as I'm aware. They're Taiwanese, and generally they're best @ mass producing stuff and not exactly classy innovation (just look at ASUS, Gigabyte and all the other Taiwanese PC co's....).
Anyways, my wishlist for a "perfect" device with (hopefully!) near-future avaliability (some of these may have been mentioned already):
Hardware:
1. MultiTouch. Apparently with some new software even resistive screens can be as nice as responsive as capacitive ones.
2. 3.7" WVGA screen. Yeah I know smaller than the current 3.8" on the HD, but a slightly smaller screen = better handling when only using one hand, v. important for a mobile device imho. And @ that size, it's still possible to read (just) webpages without zooming in massive amounts (unlike the X1 / Diamond2)
3. Dual-LED Flash (at least!) w/ Auto-Flash. If SE can get Auto-Flash working on the X1, so can HTC!
4. SonyEriccson W950-style backlit buttons instead of the capacitive ones they have right now. It's annoying since I sometimes accidentally press those without meaning to.
5. Lanyard hook / hole. WTH they didn't include it before, I dunno.
6. (Optional) Slide-out landscape keyboard w/ dpad (kinda like the N97, but no silly angled slide)... always nice to have a proper keyboard when typing long emails
7. 1Ghz Snapdragon or some other sort of beefy processor so we can enjoy games and other stuff @ WVGA res without slowing down!
8. At least 512mb RAM. I want to be able to do TRUE multitasking and not have to shutdown apps just because Opera is starting up. And I wanna stop getting those annoying "out of memory errors" from NFS:U!
Software:
1. More stable OS. I don't wanna have to soft-reset the device every couple of days! If my previous Symbian-based UIQ3 SE W960 could work for weeks on end without having to reset it, WinMo should be able to do the same.
+ What Rozenthal said

So many people share the thoughts on the obvious defects in HD.
Was wondering whether I should return it. But which one else could be the good substituion?
In another word, HD is the perfect device til now?

henrik.dk said:
So many people share the thoughts on the obvious defects in HD.
Was wondering whether I should return it. But which one else could be the good substituion?
In another word, HD is the perfect device til now?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you're going for Windows Mobile, I don't think you'll find a better device available at this moment. I would not go as far to say that it's "perfect" - as any high-tech device, it has it's downsides and annoying moments, but it is the best you can get.
Also, biggest change for me since getting my Touch HD was flashing a custom made ROM. That felt pretty much like getting a new device.

How good is the Leo?

Hey guys, just sold one of my TG01's and was thinking of what new phone to get. I've been thinking about the Leo, but im not 100% sure yet, how are you guys liking it or disliking it?
any other phones you guys suggest?

well
From my point of view it is the best WinMo phone out there. It does have its issues but they are more from a perspective of it could be done better and does not compare to other competing phones.
The iPhone is also a great phone but a different audience. I personally would/do get frustrated with a iPhone but would easily buy one for my wife.
In every aspect the HD2 tops every other phone and once you get it in your hands you will love it. My battery usage suxs as I can't help picking it up and playing with it. It spends more time being fondled than actually making calls
Video playback is a dream. Screen is great to use and its big but you don't even notice it in your pocket.
5 stars from me.

It's a spectacular handset a far as i'm concerned. Obviously some people have experienced bugs and so they'll have a different perspective, but so far my experience is overwhelmingly positive. I came from a kaiser, and the performance feels like a huge leap. Full desktop-page web browsing is astounding - but maybe those coming from more recent phones wont be so blown away. I just can't believe how quickly it renders desktop content, how smooth the scrolling is, and how readable it all is even at quite a low zoom level.
The handset really is a joy to use. In the past i've had issues with winmo forgetting wireless network keys etc. - no such misfortune here. It's storing 2 or three and switching between them as i move around the building with no hiccups at all. Battery life feels better with wireless on too, but i have not measured this empirically.
I would prefer more apps to auto rotate out of the box, but there are already posts around the net (probably here too although i haven't looked) about easily brining in this sort of tweak. That's the reason you get a phone with this sort of platform really - the flexibility it affords you. The experience is completely customisable, although that said, it's pretty damn fantastic straight out of the box

Leo is the best wm ppc out there right now! Of course all the good scoops are in the threads in the Leo section...

Great phone, best PPC without a doubt.
Certainly not topping every other phone in every aspect, as one person above suggests, but very good.

One line summary of the HD 2: A rough diamond waiting to be polished.
Either wait until Custom ROMS are avaliable or just get a DROID / Milestone

If you like WinMo, Leo's the best WinMo handset at teh moment. Probably you will have to figure out what you really expect from a handset.
Btw, Milestone yuck! Just sayin'

I heard on two main issues:
1. Pink tint on the pictures (is it fixed yet)?
2. WinMo typical slow downs over time. Lags, etc, even on the Sense UI level. Is it true?
How does it compare to units like HTC Pro for instance in terms of smootheness and lags?

I have leo for two days and I can say att the device is lovely,is big but dont take any place when i put them in my jeans pocket,the touch screen is the best one ever,but is some annoyings bugs in them,wait for a uppdate of the rom for to by or try to fix,I wil tell you some of them in my device:
-audio manager crash after 45 sec to play a song with my memory card(sanddisk16gb)
-pink color in album with the camera pictures
-when you take a picture the music stop and you need to go to the player and start again to play the song
-bluetooth sound is like a AM radio and the volume can´t be controlled(SE HBH-IS800)
-dont play the almost video format
-maybe is coming something more in the way
my previous device:Xperia x1 and many many others

Amator72 said:
I heard on two main issues:
1. Pink tint on the pictures (is it fixed yet)?
2. WinMo typical slow downs over time. Lags, etc, even on the Sense UI level. Is it true?
How does it compare to units like HTC Pro for instance in terms of smootheness and lags?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
1. Haven't made many pictures yet but I know I don't have to expect much from the HTC camera's unfortunately. Was the same on the HTC Touch Pro. It's really a shame they don't put better camera modules in their phones but ok... The pink tint IS an issue appearantly and doesn't seem to be fixed yet.
2. Haven't noticed any slowdowns like this... There is the occasional hickup
but they seem to be caused more by a certain application or part of the sense software then by windows mobile.
Compared to the HTC Touch Pro and Omnia Qwerty Pro (B7610) it's fast. I really notice a difference opening apps, going through files, going through settings, etc.
Browsing is a dream, much faster then on the HTC Touch Pro and B7610 as well. It seems my connection is better but also the cpu makes a difference. And then there's the huge screen, REALLY helps a lot.
Same goes for playing videos. Again the screen and cpu make it such a delight. Videos unable to play on the Touch Pro and B7610 play very smoothly on the HD2.
They onscreen keyboard was a problem for me in the beginning, I had a really hard time typing even one word correctly. Now with the firmware update this seems mostly fixed. I still miss keys every now and then (I don't use XT9 correction) but I find typing to be much easier now. Coming from phones with hardware keyboards this was one of the main issues for me, how would it be without a hardware keyboard, but again the screensize makes this very doable.
All in all I'm loving the phone so far...

ivo34 said:
I have leo for two days and I can say att the device is lovely,is big but dont take any place when i put them in my jeans pocket,the touch screen is the best one ever,but is some annoyings bugs in them,wait for a uppdate of the rom for to by or try to fix,I wil tell you some of them in my device:
-audio manager crash after 45 sec to play a song with my memory
card(sanddisk16gb)
-pink color in album with the camera pictures
-when you take a picture the music stop and you need to go to the player and start again to play the song
-bluetooth sound is like a AM radio and the volume can´t be controlled(SE HBH-IS800)
-dont play the almost video format
-maybe is coming something more in the way
my previous device:Xperia x1 and many many others
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
About the audioplayer 45 second crash. No problems here, is this always the case for you? I use pocketplayer most of the time though, no problems listening to music 2hrs continuously (in the train).
I heard the audio player also stops/pauses/causes problems when the device goes into sleep mode. Something I had on my HTC pro (and believe samsung) as well. Pocketplayer solves this as well...
Have the SE HBH DS-980 bluetooth headset myself and no problems, heard other complaints about the sound quality (and some fix which I haven't tried yet) so perhaps my standards are very low. Pausing, volume, etc controls are working just fine though...
Also no problems with video (formats) playback, again might be due to pocketplayer because the default media player is kinda limited indeed.

dagrim1 said:
About the audioplayer 45 second crash. No problems here, is this always the case for you? I use pocketplayer most of the time though, no problems listening to music 2hrs continuously (in the train).
I heard the audio player also stops/pauses/causes problems when the device goes into sleep mode. Something I had on my HTC pro (and believe samsung) as well. Pocketplayer solves this as well...
Have the SE HBH DS-980 bluetooth headset myself and no problems, heard other complaints about the sound quality (and some fix which I haven't tried yet) so perhaps my standards are very low. Pausing, volume, etc controls are working just fine though...
Also no problems with video (formats) playback, again might be due to pocketplayer because the default media player is kinda limited indeed.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I use core player and nitrogen,core player works well,also the volume control,nitrogen works but can not control the volume,,I tested with another bluetooth headsets and is the same, and audio manager is continuous crashing,I did hardreset 2 times,the audio quality I fixed whit this thread below,only use decimal:320 instead 256
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4960404&postcount=119

when will the custom roms be avail? anytime soon? anyone know?

Coming from a SEX1, I find this phone to be a huge sigh of relieve. I love it, it's fast. Reception is extremely good.
Camera might be better IMO, personally I don't experience the pink hue, but when taking pictures and watching them on pc I find they aren't good quality at all.Maybe fiddling around with settings would do the trick, but I'm illiterate when it comes to camera settings.
As I said, I love the phone. Pretty sure, you'll fall in love with it.

Its Awesome
Compared to other WinMo phones I have ha I can tell you that the Leo is awesome. The screen is a real winner, yet the overall size is far more comfotable that the hermes or Kaiser that I had before. The sense interface features are stunning. I am extremely happy with my purchase and waiting for the chefs to start tweaking the ROM...

I've owned the TyTN I, TyTn II, SEX1, Palm Pro, etc and the Leo/HD2 is the best WM device by a large margin. One area people may not have mentioned is the great battery life - the best I have seen in a WM device, especially given the size of the screen and the CPU speed.

elite-fusion said:
when will the custom roms be avail? anytime soon? anyone know?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Cutom roms are ready for cooking but the HardSPL needs to be completed yet before they can be flashed to peoples phones and I havent heard much information on that yet.

HTC Herald > HTC TouchPro > Samsung Omnia > HTC HD2 <--- The best of all. Of course has issues as all phones, but its speed and responsiveness blacks them out.

whats faster guys, the HD2 or the TG01, anyone knows? i had the TG01 actually had 2, sold one, and using one for the time being, they are both TG01 and HD2 1ghz, but which one is faster (software wise i guess)

One of the biggests facts making me like the hd2 is the fact is has a capicative screen, so much more responsive, no more getting your stylus of using your fingernail to get things done. Just a very slight touch

Leo - To buy or not to buy - what you guys think?

OK - so aside from bias/ability to afford/shipping/tax/price or other logistical factor - can we have a show of hands as to who has already bought a HD2 and has something to say - particularly what about the device makes you happy, what makes you sad?
Let's try keep it away from supplier/delivery issues or local network/band/signal issues - just pure usability/hardware/software.
Personally after trying one out in a store last week I finally received the experience I feel you want when moving to a PDA from a smart phone. What does our community think after using it for a while?

noofny said:
OK - so aside from bias/ability to afford/shipping/tax/price or other logistical factor - can we have a show of hands as to who has already bought a HD2 and has something to say - particularly what about the device makes you happy, what makes you sad?
Let's try keep it away from supplier/delivery issues or local network/band/signal issues - just pure usability/hardware/software.
Personally after trying one out in a store last week I finally received the experience I feel you want when moving to a PDA from a smart phone. What does our community think after using it for a while?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
too subjective a question....for every person on here that says get it, there will be one that says don't get it.
the final decision must be yours....nobody here can make your decision for you. Make a list of the important things for you in a phone, then find the phone that matches those needs the best.
for example, I think the iphone has a much nicer interface, more apps, better screen (touch interface, not size or clarity), but for me it just doesn't handle business functions very well and that made me choose the HD2 since this was my primary need.
if you do the same process you might find the ideal phone for you

I got mine on Sunday just gone, was an upgrade from a Diamond. I loved my diamond, but as soon as I had setup my HD2 with contacts and apps etc I was loving this even more. Each time I use it I find something new, like facebook linking, then seeing in a contact card all communications with that person.
I'm yet to use the footprints, but look forward to trying it out.
The main thing for me was the screen size, I always had problems with the tiny diamond screen, but this is so crisp, easier to use and much easier to keyboard with.
Also the damn speed of the device is amazing, so fast, the OS loads so quick. I soft resetted it and put it down to expect a few minutes wait like on the diamond, but was rebooted so quick!
The one thing I would love to see is a facebook tab, like the twitter tab, shame they didn't implement that!
The specs that come with this phone are truely awesome, and that was the overall selling point for me, as I knew how good HTC phones were I just had to have something with the specs that this phone comes with.

twisted-pixel - good point about the subjectiveness. I suppose what I'm fishing for here are peoples post-usage horror/love stories - moreso with regard to hardware and usability. It's a nice big screen but it's also a nice big slab of tech - how do you find the size, whats the battery life like, do you notice anything bad about the capacitive screen, how often (if ever) do you feel the need for a stylus and say 'doh', does the headphone port become dodgy after use - or the micro usb port? I suppose because of this community we all have flexibility and solutions around software, so I meant to make this more hardware related I guess.

noofny said:
twisted-pixel - good point about the subjectiveness. I suppose what I'm fishing for here are peoples post-usage horror/love stories - moreso with regard to hardware and usability. It's a nice big screen but it's also a nice big slab of tech - how do you find the size, whats the battery life like, do you notice anything bad about the capacitive screen, how often (if ever) do you feel the need for a stylus and say 'doh', does the headphone port become dodgy after use - or the micro usb port? I suppose because of this community we all have flexibility and solutions around software, so I meant to make this more hardware related I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I admit to loving the phone...with one exception...the sensitivity of the screen is a complete disaster for me. it's very difficult to type on, someones it responds to the slightest touch, other times it doesn't. accuracy is also an issue (that was to be expected on a screen with high resolution I suppose)
and yes, I've tried all the tweaks going before anyone suggests it (currently running v3.3 of the tweak with sensitivity on)
I think if I had come straight from my HD then I would have been impressed, but I come from an iphone where the screen was a delight to use.
however, the rest of the phone makes up for that small failing.

noofny said:
twisted-pixel - good point about the subjectiveness. I suppose what I'm fishing for here are peoples post-usage horror/love stories - moreso with regard to hardware and usability. It's a nice big screen but it's also a nice big slab of tech - how do you find the size, whats the battery life like, do you notice anything bad about the capacitive screen, how often (if ever) do you feel the need for a stylus and say 'doh', does the headphone port become dodgy after use - or the micro usb port? I suppose because of this community we all have flexibility and solutions around software, so I meant to make this more hardware related I guess.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Unfortunately, you will find more people venting than praising any device on this forum, as people only seek help when they have problems.
I must admit, I personally think it is the best device I have ever used.
For a quick overview from me (in comparison to the X1, but most comments are applicable):
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=5667230&postcount=6

I stumbled on this video on youtube;
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E-3Bi-Eg2gQ
...and love his brutal (albeit bias and sometimes naive) honesty, it helps you make a decision because it's not a rant. So far you guys are proving some intelligent feedback also - so thank you and let's keep it coming!

I got the HD2 the day it was available in my country (one of the first in europe) and despite all the fixes and xda-dev recommendations i couldn't have it for more then 1 weekend. I sold it on monday morning.
I hated typing (i did try the keyboard cab which should lower the sensitivity), loading sms with some exchanged texts already (loading was awful for such powerful device), visibility outside was horrible, battery,..
Maybe my rant will be understanded better if i mention i'm a blackberry user that likes to try out new "hot phones" (no matter which brand or type of usage).
I've also tried the Nexus One and would say i liked it a tiny bit better then HD2, but still couldn't have it for more then a week.
So, why am i writing this.. After MWC last week, i've kind of wanted to give HD2 another shot. For the following reasons..
I've came across some nice taskbar buttons (which make it look so much better..), I saw there is a fix for sms loading time, i guess i could always install a different keyboard,.. and most imortantly i got a very nice (cheap) offer for a brand new HD2. Yesterday i even ordered a nice case (didn't like the one that comes in the box) and a screenprotector (which might reduce the fingerprints, which i hated so much and a visibility outside,.. hope i'm not too optimistic).
If i somehow manage to be happy with HD2, i might even go for the exnteded battery. And i'm kind of feeling the hype for WinMo7 rom for this device.. Don't know if it will be any better or worse, i just know there is some excitement about it
Hope my rant / "long mess" didn't bore you too much

+1 to buy with eyes closed.

OK, this will be quick because I'm supposed to be doing something else right now but anyway...
I've just sent my HD2 back because of a problem with the microphone so if anyone should be telling you to think of other alternatives - it should be me.
But I can't because I love the phone. It's fast, responsive, it's got most of the features that you could ever want (minus USB host), the screen is gorgeous and the interface is pretty damn usable.
It's not perfect however... Customising it is more trouble than it should be. There is a slight pink hue in the middle of the camera when the contrast and saturation are turned up high enough to make the colours look half lifelike and when the screen is completely white, at certain angles you can see the grid dots that make the screen's matrix.
So to resume, if you don't mind spending some time on it and you're not completely obsessive about things being absolutely perfect (I am and I can still get to sleep at night) then you should be very happy with an HD2.

NeoGreendawg said:
There is a slight pink hue in the middle of the camera when the contrast and saturation are turned up high enough to make the colours look half lifelike and when the screen is completely white, at certain angles you can see the grid dots that make the screen's matrix.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The pink hue is solved with an update from HTC (here)
The dots are also visible on an iPhone, its down to the technology, not the device alone.

rp-x1 said:
The pink hue is solved with an update from HTC (here)
The dots are also visible on an iPhone, its down to the technology, not the device alone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, I'm sorry but the HTC hotfix did slightly improve the issue but it certainly didn't resolve it in my case. I love the phone believe me but I somehow doubt that anyone who isn't employed by HTC or affected by Daltonism could honestly claim that it has completely solved the issue.
Edit : Not trying to be rude or make out that it's a deal-breaker but I know that as a potential buyer I'd want to know about it.

I've had the HD2 for three weeks and use it every day. I also end up resetting it every day. I've come from a Nokia N96 and before that the N73, so I'm comparing it to the N96. I am very pleased with the speed of the phone and how operations take way less than a second to perform, instead of several seconds a la N96.
The phone itself is a bit too big. Perhaps a 4 inch screen would have been enough. Even though I have big hands, it's just too big to walk around and hold the phone with one hand. I'm scared of dropping it. The headphone port's on the bottom of the phone - it causes the cable to tangle up around the phone when in a pocket.
I have found plenty of bugs in the stock O2 1.43 firmware and know how to deal with the main ones.
I didn't realise the phone had an FM tuner until I found it after a few days on the Start menu - I used the N96 FM tuner almost every day. Unfortunately the tuner on the HD2 is really poor. It is unable to obtain a good quality signal. Sound dips out. There's an awful lot of interference in places where the N96 would have relayed a good quality signal. In places where the N96 got a poor signal, the HD2 has static. BBC Radio 1 has the most powerful signal in my area, yet the HD2 fails to get consistent reception. There's just too much interference and I often just shut the radio off. A huge let down; I wonder if it's hardware or software at fault.
The N96 music player was very well featured, but incredibly (pathetically) slow. In contrast, the HTC Music app has no such delays, is very fast but somewhat basic in comparison. A lot of cool N96 features are missing; there's no way to call up the keyboard to locate tracks, track details can't be edited, tracks can't be deleted, backing out of an album takes you to the top of the album list and not to where you were. There's no hardware buttons to change tracks when the phone's in a pocket (a swipe up/down on the lock screen to change tracks would be nice). Volume control has too few stages so is either too loud or too quiet; volume within the Music tab has more stages but doesn't always work (error in Services.exe). General audio quality is rather poor - even the iPod classic 5G sounds better! Occasional unexplained sound dips and audio which lacks in bass and treble. The oddest thing is the shuffle feature tends to replay swathes of tracks that have already been played.
Video playback is very impressive because of the screen size. Can't fathom why the Windows Mobile OS cannot play WMV. Get quite a few dropped frames and put that down to the poor quality 1.43 ROM and perhaps not-fully-developed decoders. Video viewing in general is very nice, although an afterthought within HTC Sense, as the video playback has essentially just been tacked on to HTC's photo viewing app.
I do like the phone, it is good enough to stop me wanting to go back to my last phone. I'd get one, but the HD2's not quite the tech lover's wet dream that some of the big review sites make it out to be. Having bought it from the O2 network, I'll seriously doubt I'll ever be able to officially upgrade the firmware (HTC isn't even listed on their software upgrade pages), so I'll have to learn alternative methods one of these days to see if I can iron out some of the bugs!

Wish they would just whack a snapdragon and capacitive screen in a HD and re-release it....think that would satisfy a lotta folks. Cheers all for your input, it's really helping me to set realistic expectations.

I was contemplating on whether I should buy a Nexus One instead of the HD2, but I decided to go for the HD2 instead because it was cheaper, had a nice screen resolution, specifications don't differ much between both devices, and i'm looking forward to the Windows 7 release on the HD2

i am currently contemplating to switch from HD to HD2....is it worth it?

Buy it!
I come from the HD. The HD2 is what the HD should have been from the first instance.
Fantastic:
- speed (and I am using a stock French Orange ROM based on 1.43!)
- screen
- usability
As far as precision is concerned: I need a phone to check and type (even long) emails, and read documents. XT9 works just great, but even in ABC mode in landscape the accuracy is pretty good (and I type fast!).
If you need to play around with programs using stylus-based input, yes, then it gets really annoying (try to edit your registry in Total Commander and you'll get crazy).
In summary: if you want to tweak it like crazy all the time or intensively use older programs with small menus, then consider buying an alternative with a resistive screen and a stylus. But if you actually want to USE your phone with the standard applications, just buy it and you'll get the best of the market today imo!

to buy or not
i have it for a month after the trinity.
sorry but it hasnot voice call
no handwriting recognition
battery ends quickley
no video call
no .chm file reader
all of these were on the trinity.
so i am sorry buing it

Mastoid said:
I was contemplating on whether I should buy a Nexus One instead of the HD2, but I decided to go for the HD2 instead because it was cheaper, had a nice screen resolution, specifications don't differ much between both devices, and i'm looking forward to the Windows 7 release on the HD2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I hope you do realize that there may eventually never be a WP7 release for the HD2?

rottttman said:
i have it for a month after the trinity.
sorry but it hasnot voice call
no handwriting recognition
battery ends quickley
no video call
no .chm file reader
all of these were on the trinity.
so i am sorry buing it
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
U'd better search for infos about the phone after buying it

looking into the S200

Hi all, I'm in Hong Kong right now and it seems like I can get an unlock one here for a pretty good price.
However, I read a few reviews saying that the quality of the phone is sub-pal. One of the things that got kicked at is the sound quality. I am wondering if any users can tell me their experience with this phone.
I'm going back to the USA and I'm with AT&T. I was looking at the HD mini but it doesn't support the 3G in the States. And since I'm going to shell out that much $$ I kinda wanna get something that will work with the 3G.
My main usage: Outlook sync stuff (cal, task, contact, thus, Win Mo is the best so far from what I hear). A little bit of web browsing. Txt but not all the time. I talk a lot on the phone.

+ 3g works fine
+ outlook sync works fine
+ long battery times
+ quality is ok for the price
- camera captures bad photos in dark
- gps loose position sometimes
- sound level is to low but ok
my opinion: good phone for low price

Cons:
(-) Camera has very poor quality (I mean so) in ANY situations exclude cases when you shooting in direct bright sunlight or white lamp light.
(-) Plastic back is very easy to scratch without case.
(-) GPS needs to fix (see a thread).
Pros:
(+) Long battery time (2 days with medium usage for me).
(+) Good price for good device.
(+) Large screen (web browsing is really great with it)

sorry to jack your thread but i might get one aswell and video reviews aren't helping that much since i know i can change most of the cons.
my number one question is how is the touch screen, my lg incite was a piece of crap and upon hearing that the screen is squishy my enthusiasm for the product went down
i consider my xperia x1 pretty good but i'm going to miss the hardware keyboard :[
so whats your opinion on the touchscreen

^the touchscreen is good. good sensitivity and not squishy at all. i upgraded to s200 from xperia x1. that phone was pissing me off...
i dont miss the hw kb at all since it wasnt even that good of a keyboard on the x1.
plus on the s200 screen is 3.8inch much better to watch videos than on the x1.
and dont forget the snapdragon processor.

i also read that the headphone jack can mess up >.<
i don't think software support would be too much of a hassle once i get to it ;]

^regarding the headphone jack. i use it everyday and after a few months the hole gets a little 'loose' like i have to really plug my earphone jack in deep deep to get the audio through the earphones.
still works fine though.

vincentmoy said:
Hi all, I'm in Hong Kong right now and it seems like I can get an unlock one here for a pretty good price.
However, I read a few reviews saying that the quality of the phone is sub-pal. One of the things that got kicked at is the sound quality. I am wondering if any users can tell me their experience with this phone.
I'm going back to the USA and I'm with AT&T. I was looking at the HD mini but it doesn't support the 3G in the States. And since I'm going to shell out that much $$ I kinda wanna get something that will work with the 3G.
My main usage: Outlook sync stuff (cal, task, contact, thus, Win Mo is the best so far from what I hear). A little bit of web browsing. Txt but not all the time. I talk a lot on the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Outlook sync works fine; but it won't work if you use new Office 2010 64bit version - but that's a problem with WMDC (not office or the phone). So if you upgrade to 2010, u should stay with 32 bit.
But I don't know if WinMo is necessarily the best for this; even though I'm using this phone now, I think my next phone will be Android. Open Source makes it easier for a user community to develop stuff, rather than reverse-engineering!
S200 build quality is low - it feels tacky. When I bought it (~500 USD) I had option of getting HD2 for about 100USD more. I think the HD2 would have been better choice (esp. as I want to use Manila; and - despite best efforts of chefs - Manila will never be as good on acer as it is on HTC)
If you can try out a phone (display unit) you can judge for yourself if you're happy with the build quality or not
Plus, a major problem with this phone is it only has 256 MB RAM; so you have about 115MB free (on stock ROMs) or 50-85 MB free (with Manila ROMs). Run a few programs and you no longer have enough free memory to launch the camera!
HD2 has 576 MB!
/Sifaan