Grainy Camera Images - HD2 General

Hey guys, I was out last night in London with the gf and was taking photos with the HD2 Camera
I've applied quite alot of tweaks such as the superfine and additional video modes
After looking through the photos, all of them have come out very grainy, I've tried playing around with the contrast, saturation and sharpness but doesn't really make a difference
Also tried changing the image quality and no change
Anything that I can do to fix it?
Here are some images

It's a normal effect. The HD2 isn't a reflex camera. At night or in a low luminosity environment the ISO (sensibility of the lens) will be higher, creating this grainy effect. You can try with a low end / medium end "true" camera, you will see the same effect, more or less visible depending of the quality of the device. You can try to set the ISO by yourself to limit the effect.

ye, because your shooting in low light, your HD2 (whcih I assume is on Auto ISO) will ramp up to a higher ISO to increase the photosensitivity, allowing you to maintain as fast a shutter speed as possible. if it didnt, you would have been slower shutter speed and you wouldhave had camear shake too!

Ty for the quick replies guys, so basically I should lower the ISO settings which will mean longer shutter time but less grain, yes they were on auto, silly me =[

no im not saying that, exactly. if you were to lower the ISO, yes that would prduce less grain, but you would find you would no longer be able to take a sharp pic in hand, because the camera would compensate by having a longer the shutter speed to allow more light to aborb on the sensor. if it didnt take this action your pic would be underexposed, i.e. black!
your grain is unavoidable at night im affraid unless you can use a tripod, or strong flash to light your scene, whcih will be difficuilt if its a landscape!
hope that helps

Its nearly impossible to shoot good pictures by night with a small or mobilephone camera. Like the others said, if you lower the iso the grain will go away, but the picture will also be much darker, you can compensate this if you longer the shutter times, but then the camera have to be on a stand or something like that. So just accept that this pictures are kind of the best you can make at night.

Okey dokes, thanks for clearing this up lads =]

If it makes you feel any better my Nikon D3 has the same problem
All be it not as bad.

12:46 pm and it's that dark in London
Or is there another London

erosennin said:
12:46 pm and it's that dark in London
Or is there another London
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
huh? i took those at around 10 pm last night

rayad said:
huh? i took those at around 10 pm last night
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Click to collapse
Yeah lol, look at the time stamp

Related

Use this setting for Noise-free images!

I've come across a lot of people complaining about the camera not giving out noise-free images like it's supposed to. The trick is to use manual mode. I agree, if you use Superior Auto mode, it's a miss most of the times, and when it does work, it gives a purple-ish tint at the corners.
However, If you use manual mode and select the SCENE to NIGHT, the images come out amazing and noise-free!
[DO NOT JUDGE THE IMAGE BY WHAT THE VIEWFINDER SHOWS YOU. A lot of things happen when you press the shutter button. The viewfinder simply goes red for making it easy to focus. The final image in the gallery is a hundred times better]
The Scene modes are one of the most commonly ignored settings.
I hope this helps!
Thanks for this but i just tried it and even though it pretty light where i am taking the picture, the picture turns us a little blurry.
Possibly because night mode uses a longer shutter time which makes it more sensitive to motion blur?
Schadowx277 said:
I've come across a lot of people complaining about the camera not giving out noise-free images like it's supposed to. The trick is to use manual mode. I agree, if you use Superior Auto mode, it's a miss most of the times, and when it does work, it gives a purple-ish tint at the corners.
However, If you use manual mode and select the SCENE to NIGHT, the images come out amazing and noise-free!
[DO NOT JUDGE THE IMAGE BY WHAT THE VIEWFINDER SHOWS YOU. A lot of things happen when you press the shutter button. The viewfinder simply goes red for making it easy to focus. The final image in the gallery is a hundred times better]
The Scene modes are one of the most commonly ignored settings.
I hope this helps!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
USe night SCENE even if we are with light ? i mean DAY light
DjTony90 said:
USe night SCENE even if we are with light ? i mean DAY light
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
How do you select a SCENE mode? I don't have any such option.
Never mind, I had it at 20MP.
Havent got around to really check out every setting in manual mode, bu I will for certain try this on oute tomorrow.
don't know why but right now scene mode shows up only on 8 megapixel and lower shots , so change your camera settings to access it.
I Use Manual mode, 20 Mp, ISO 50!!! Very important for controlling noise - still at pixel level picture is a mess but that is true for Every camera with such pixel density! And overall picture quality as seen on my sample is OK!
Isn't ISO50 only workable with very good lighting? I mean, indoors it's very tricky already...
dagrim1 said:
Isn't ISO50 only workable with very good lighting? I mean, indoors it's very tricky already...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Photography is painting with Light, when light is not available there no much "painting" - Agree indoors when it's dark You should up ISO otherwise camera will go to very long exposures and You'll get blurry pictures.
What i was giving was setting for lower possible noise in pictures, settings will vary according to current lighting condition
pesho00 said:
Photography is painting with Light, when light is not available there no much "painting" - Agree indoors when it's dark You should up ISO otherwise camera will go to very long exposures and You'll get blurry pictures.
What i was giving was setting for lower possible noise in pictures, settings will vary according to current lighting condition
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure, but it's logical that a lower ISO will generate less noise, unfortunately then shutter times increase quickly resulting in moved shots. But it does seem an issue with auto mode that it increases the ISO values very quickly...
Ah well, hoping future firmware updates will improve things (if only had sony included OIS in this thing).
when i select Iso50 the whole of the viewfinder becomes VERY laggy. doesnt anyone else find this? (happens with both mine and my old z1 which was replaced)
very disappointed with the camera on this phone given that the camera is supposed to be the main selling point of the phone.
thefunkygibbon said:
when i select Iso50 the whole of the viewfinder becomes VERY laggy. doesnt anyone else find this? (happens with both mine and my old z1 which was replaced)
very disappointed with the camera on this phone given that the camera is supposed to be the main selling point of the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have No such problem.
thefunkygibbon said:
when i select Iso50 the whole of the viewfinder becomes VERY laggy. doesnt anyone else find this? (happens with both mine and my old z1 which was replaced)
very disappointed with the camera on this phone given that the camera is supposed to be the main selling point of the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same lagginess here, but only when the lighting is low/lower... Not as much as an issue for me.
Camera doesn't live up to it's expectations unfortunately, especially in lower light. (No, I don't expect awesome pics in lower light but coming from a Lumia920, which performed a whole lot better, yay for OIS, in that area it is kinda disappointing)
dagrim1 said:
Same lagginess here, but only when the lighting is low/lower... Not as much as an issue for me.
Camera doesn't live up to it's expectations unfortunately, especially in lower light. (No, I don't expect awesome pics in lower light but coming from a Lumia920, which performed a whole lot better, yay for OIS, in that area it is kinda disappointing)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
not tested it in "good light" to be honest since the whole point in changing the ISO is to compensate for the low light conditions you are trying to take the photo in.
its a little confusing since "Auto" iso setting is the only one which is not laggy. you can select iso50 or the top iso level (Can't remember what number it is) and its all just as laggy. you would have thought that Auto would imply that you would be using an automatically determined iso level, which would be more intensive on the phone than selecting an iso level manually (especially iso 50 which should be really less processing than"auto" would be.
---------- Post added at 09:53 AM ---------- Previous post was at 09:50 AM ----------
ilovemyZ1 said:
After doing some more research I found the answer to our low-light camera problems! This trick works with all Sony phones and is easy to do.
What we need is this and this and image quality improves SIGNIFICANTLY!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
well, i have one of those and i can tell you that low light pictures on that are just as bad. a) it doesnt use the nice sony camera app. it uses the frankly rubbish Sony memories camera app which has next to nothing in terms of manual setting and b) you can't use a flash.
so no. it isnt the answer. at all.
ilovemyZ1 said:
haha maybe you should have got the QX100 instead
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
maybe, but it was a freebie with my phone. i've used it a handful of times and its frankly crap.
might stick it on ebay later actually. i doubt the qx100 would be much better tbh as it'd still be using the same app. it'll still take about 30 seconds to connect the device to the phone and it'll still have the same crap wifi distance (about an arms length) before the phones viewfinder lags out badly.
thefunkygibbon said:
maybe, but it was a freebie with my phone. i've used it a handful of times and its frankly crap.
might stick it on ebay later actually. i doubt the qx100 would be much better tbh as it'd still be using the same app. it'll still take about 30 seconds to connect the device to the phone and it'll still have the same crap wifi distance (about an arms length) before the phones viewfinder lags out badly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The QX10 is pretty good in low light, the QX100 will be better with the large sensor and 1.8 aperture at the wide end.
Nothing can help the lack of flash for certain situations, but a lot of it comes from learning the camera.
Wifi isn't amazing, but it works further than that for me, and through walls. I'm trying to think of new ways to use that style of camera and have been experimenting.
Sent from my C6903 using Tapatalk now Free

Strange behavior of noise reduction in stock camera - with samples

Update: I no longer have the LG G4 so I cannot help with this. You are free to use this thread to continue the discussion!
I've been playing around with the stock camera's manual mode, trying to figure out why sometimes pictures in both day light and low light have major noise reduction (NR) and other times pictures have some noise but details are preserved. At first I thought it was a software bug where NR wasn't correctly applied, but then I realized it had to do with the camera software and ISO.
I tested using ISO 50, 300, and 500.
I found that from ISO 50 to 400, NR is heavily applied and details are lost, making the G4 the same as other phone's cameras in day light. I took some pictures at a swimming pool on a sunny day and I didn't like the results with stock camera.
From ISO 450 (or 500) and up NR is reduced so much and details are mostly preserved.
Samples of my daughter's toy - download to see full resolution to be able to zoom in at 100% - look at the fur on the toy dog and the fabric on the bed sheet:
ISO 50: https://app.box.com/s/4xj0eaf1euaaff8d1mnjevfdu6zzzyup
ISO 300: https://app.box.com/s/mffl4yp6ycdhr4tk7nd29815kuxw2pu6
ISO 500 - this is where details are preserved even though there is more noise: https://app.box.com/s/1vmsv6ajyz41mb8vj6sljsg82unzftif
That is a weird behavior. In DSLRs it is the opposite. Between ISO 100 and 800 there isn't much NR because there is no need for it and then you start getting a bit more NR, or you can disable it, usually it's called High ISO Noise Reduction. I'm not sure what LG was thinking to apply so much NR at ISO 50, seems like it's low ISO NR with LG lol. It does need some NR because the sensor is small but this is too much at such a low ISO. I really like that there isn't much NR applied after ISO 450/500.
Note that I'm not talking about the difference between post processing of auto mode using night shot and the post processing of manual mode (less NR).
I know I can solve that by using Raw but I don't always have time to process the .dng file and I know I can use ProShot and disabling NR but there's nothing like the stock camera on the G4.
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
I also saw it in many other shots that I took of my wife and other people without them moving .
What do you all think?
Is there a software tweak in build.prop that we can apply to disable noise reduction like with the HTC M9?
EDIT - Camera mod:
defcomg made a mod that disables noise reduction in LG's stock G4 camera. http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=63025959&postcount=71
You must be rooted.
Go to System/Priv-app and copy/backup the LGCameraApp folder somewhere safe.
Take the LG camera apk file from defcomg's post above and put in the root of LGCameraApp folder in system/priv-app.
Overwrite and then launch camera. It will crash first time and then work fine.
Issues:
Clicking on Mode in Auto will always crash though, needs to be fixed.
Noise reduction is applied even in Auto. I would have liked it only in manual but seems like there's no way to do this yet. So, defcomg is trying to add a button that lets us disable noise reduction on the fly, that would be awesome because in higher ISO, there is a lot of chroma noise.
I have noticed the same thing myself. The G3 did the same thing. Even in bright light at ISO50, minor details are lost due to noise reduction. The advantage to the G3 was that you could use XCam LG to turn off the noise reduction. I wish he would develop it to work with the G4 also.
GibMcFragger said:
I have noticed the same thing myself. The G3 did the same thing. Even in bright light at ISO50, minor details are lost due to noise reduction. The advantage to the G3 was that you could use XCam LG to turn off the noise reduction. I wish he would develop it to work with the G4 also.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I remember XCam from the G2 also, but I think the one for G3 is better with more options. If I recall correctly, the dev said that he doesn't have a G4 so he won't develop for it. Not sure though. I hope he does it too.
I had a Panasonic GX7 (Micro Four Thirds) and that camera had like 10 different settings for noise reduction, it was great lol. Wish phones get that level of control soon!
I like that HTC gives the option to change sharpness. That's also important.
Are you rooted? Do me a favor to see if I am imagining things or not.
I changed ro.lge.noise.suppression to "0" (off) in my build prop, then rebooted. I took a few pics, and I swear there is no more detail loss when zoomed in.
I just want someone else to do it and see if I'm crazy.
GibMcFragger said:
Are you rooted? Do me a favor to see if I am imagining things or not.
I changed ro.lge.noise.suppression to "0" (off) in my build prop, then rebooted. I took a few pics, and I swear there is no more detail loss when zoomed in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I rooted yesterday . I'll try it out soon! I hope it works!
Ramsey said:
I rooted yesterday . I'll try it out soon! I hope it works!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Never mind. I took a few more. I think I'm crazy. Damn, lol. I was hoping I found it.
GibMcFragger said:
Never mind. I took a few more. I think I'm crazy. Damn, lol. I was hoping I found it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok I tried it, no changes even after reboot =(.
That noise suppression could be for calls or mic .
Ramsey said:
Ok I tried it, no changes even after reboot =(.
That noise suppression could be for calls or mic .
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just verified that. I'm an idiot. It IS the noise suppression for calls. If you go into your call options in the dialer, the noise suppression option will now be missing...
Lol oops. Just change it back to 1, then reboot and it's back.
GibMcFragger said:
I just verified that. I'm an idiot. It IS the noise suppression for calls. If you go into your call options in the dialer, the noise suppression option will now be missing...
Lol oops. Just change it back to 1, then reboot and it's back.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No prob lol.
This was a line added to build-prop to disable some noise reduction on the M9. I don't know if it will work with the G4 but it's worth trying. I don't have time now, maybe later I'll try it:
persist.camera.qcwnr.enabled=0
Ramsey said:
Samples of my daughter's toy - download to see full resolution to be able to zoom in at 100% - look at the fur on the toy dog and the fabric on the bed sheet:
ISO 50: https://app.box.com/s/4xj0eaf1euaaff8d1mnjevfdu6zzzyup
ISO 300: https://app.box.com/s/mffl4yp6ycdhr4tk7nd29815kuxw2pu6
ISO 500 - this is where details are preserved even though there is more noise: https://app.box.com/s/1vmsv6ajyz41mb8vj6sljsg82unzftif
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wonder if its a question of where focus got set. With the ISO 500 focus was spot on but with the ISO 50 maybe focus got set on the sheet further away.The patterns on the sheet on the ISO 50 look more clear compared to the ISO 500.
I can't explain the ISO 300 one though. The fur seems soft like the ISO 50.
Try to get more distance between you and the subject, at least 2m so we can eliminate focus as a parameter.
Note that I'm not talking about the difference between post processing of auto mode using night shot and the post processing of manual mode (less NR).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did not understand the underlined bit. You were in manual to choose ISO for those 3 shots weren't you ?
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it is, its a damn good job. Face detect shows as one.
Does face detect get triggered in manual ? because with one of the shots in the photo thread i notice face detect was zero in the long exposure portrait.
What is weird is that it's mostly occuring on human skin. As said before thanks God we have RAW to control the NR and the jpeg compression. What is crazy too is that the difference is night and day between jpeg and raw even when saving at 100% jpeg quality using Lightroom on PC based on a dng it will recompress too much the pixels resulting in some color degradation. Perhaps LG is using a different color preset than the known adobe rgb ones...
Sent from my LG-H815 using XDA Free mobile app
Ramsey said:
I've been playing around with the stock camera's manual mode, trying to figure out why sometimes pictures in both day light and low light have major noise reduction (NR) and other times pictures have some noise but details are preserved. At first I thought it was a software bug where NR wasn't correctly applied, but then I realized it had to do with the camera software and ISO.
I tested using ISO 50, 300, and 500.
I found that from ISO 50 to 400, NR is heavily applied and details are lost, making the G4 the same as other phone's cameras in day light. I took some pictures at a swimming pool on a sunny day and I didn't like the results with stock camera.
From ISO 450 (or 500) and up NR is reduced so much and details are mostly preserved.
Samples of my daughter's toy - download to see full resolution to be able to zoom in at 100% - look at the fur on the toy dog and the fabric on the bed sheet:
ISO 50: https://app.box.com/s/4xj0eaf1euaaff8d1mnjevfdu6zzzyup
ISO 300: https://app.box.com/s/mffl4yp6ycdhr4tk7nd29815kuxw2pu6
ISO 500 - this is where details are preserved even though there is more noise: https://app.box.com/s/1vmsv6ajyz41mb8vj6sljsg82unzftif
That is a weird behavior. In DSLRs it is the opposite. Between ISO 100 and 800 there isn't much NR because there is no need for it and then you start getting a bit more NR, or you can disable it, usually it's called High ISO Noise Reduction. I'm not sure what LG was thinking to apply so much NR at ISO 50, seems like it's low ISO NR with LG lol. It does need some NR because the sensor is small but this is too much at such a low ISO. I really like that there isn't much NR applied after ISO 450/500.
Note that I'm not talking about the difference between post processing of auto mode using night shot and the post processing of manual mode (less NR).
I know I can solve that by using Raw but I don't always have time to process the .dng file and I know I can use ProShot and disabling NR but there's nothing like the stock camera on the G4.
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
I also saw it in many other shots that I took of my wife and other people without them moving .
What do you all think?
Is there a software tweak in build.prop that we can apply to disable noise reduction like with the HTC M9?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sorry but when setting ISO then it must be at Manual mode right ?
1/8, 1/24, 1/30
Sometimes even a bit movement might make a small blur which look like a noise reduction.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
but might want to try it like put on the table and took a shot from a consistent range and also set the manual focus to the preferred object maybe.
s3alon said:
1/8, 1/24, 1/30
Sometimes even a bit movement might make a small blur which look like a noise reduction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That was my first thought with the 1/8. But the ISO 300 is 1/24 or fast enough. Even at 1/8 you can get clear shots with the OIS.
but might want to try it like put on the table and took a shot from a consistent range and also set the manual focus to the preferred object maybe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
manual focus would be another way to eliminate any auto focus issues.
One Twelve said:
I wonder if its a question of where focus got set. With the ISO 500 focus was spot on but with the ISO 50 maybe focus got set on the sheet further away.The patterns on the sheet on the ISO 50 look more clear compared to the ISO 500.
I can't explain the ISO 300 one though. The fur seems soft like the ISO 50.
Try to get more distance between you and the subject, at least 2m so we can eliminate focus as a parameter.
Did not understand the underlined bit. You were in manual to choose ISO for those 3 shots weren't you ?
If it is, its a damn good job. Face detect shows as one.
Does face detect get triggered in manual ? because with one of the shots in the photo thread i notice face detect was zero in the long exposure portrait.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I am pretty sure focus is set correctly and there is no blur from me shaking. The OIS is pretty good on the G4. The problem lies in LG's post processing where in lower ISO it is using aggressive noise reduction.
Face detect isn't activated in manual mode. I may be wrong though.
The one of my daughter isn't shot in manual mode, it was auto. The focus point may not be fully on her face, perhaps her neck area, but I have other shots that I won't share where I did focus on faces and the skin is too smooth. Tried using ProShot and the faces don't have that fake smoothing, they look natural and normal.
The NR is too aggressive so that it makes it appear as if I focused wrong. Even if the focus is on the sheet with ISO 50, why aren't there any fine details on the sheet like with the ISO 500? That's the aggressive NR coming into play.
s3alon said:
Sorry but when setting ISO then it must be at Manual mode right ?
1/8, 1/24, 1/30
Sometimes even a bit movement might make a small blur which look like a noise reduction.
Correct me if I'm wrong.
but might want to try it like put on the table and took a shot from a consistent range and also set the manual focus to the preferred object maybe.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes it is in manual mode as stated in the beginning of my post, but note that the pic of my daughter was in auto mode.
If you zoom in you can notice that there is no shaking, that's just the effect of aggressive noise reduction below ISO 450 .
Look at ISO 500, notice that the fur has more detail. You can see a lot more noise in that picture over the ISO 300 one. That's how LG decided to post process and I don't like that low ISO has aggressive NR.
One Twelve said:
Did not understand the underlined bit. You were in manual to choose ISO for those 3 shots weren't you ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I mean by that is that auto mode has a special night mode that activates in low light and I think it takes away our ability to see ISO when that happens. Shots take longer to be saved also, but the results are pretty good. Manual mode doesn't have that feature and ends up with a lot of ugly noise in low light. I was just stating that I wasn't comparing the difference between those 2 modes, in case someone wanted to say that that's the night mode from auto mode causing that behavior.
Ramsey said:
I am pretty sure focus is set correctly and there is no blur from me shaking. The OIS is pretty good on the G4.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, there is no blur that i can see in the 1/8 shot. Looks quite sharp. A little too sharp with patterns on the bedsheet just in front of the furry animal for ISO 50. So its not about shaking. But i'm not sure if focus got set properly.
My point is more about dof when focused on subjects less than 2m away. The G4 has a tendency to mess this up at times, picking the background instead of the foreground ie your intended target. So if you camera to subject distance is little over 2m then focus is at infinity or if closer than 2m you use manual focus then you get around AF, if indeed AF is responsible.
he problem lies in LG's post processing where in lower ISO it is using aggressive noise reduction.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Show me more shots where we can eliminate focus as a potential cause.
Face detect isn't activated in manual mode. I may be wrong though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if face detect isn't triggered in manual then there will be no beauty face.
The one of my daughter isn't shot in manual mode, it was auto. The focus point may not be fully on her face, perhaps her neck area, but I have other shots that I won't share where I did focus on faces and the skin is too smooth. Tried using ProShot and the faces don't have that fake smoothing, they look natural and normal.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Focus is perfect in your daughters shot. Action shot, crisp, what a lovely photo it is
The NR is too aggressive so that it makes it appear as if I focused wrong. Even if the focus is on the sheet with ISO 50, why aren't there any fine details on the sheet like with the ISO 500? That's the aggressive NR coming into play.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Show me more examples.
---------- Post added at 05:06 AM ---------- Previous post was at 04:53 AM ----------
Ramsey said:
What I mean by that is that auto mode has a special night mode that activates in low light and I think it takes away our ability to see ISO when that happens. Shots take longer to be saved also, but the results are pretty good. Manual mode doesn't have that feature and ends up with a lot of ugly noise in low light. I was just stating that I wasn't comparing the difference between those 2 modes, in case someone wanted to say that that's the night mode from auto mode causing that behavior.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Right, your 1/8 ISO 50 is not a night shot. Had to be taken in manual.
Am doubting focus only in your shots. I am not convinced as yet that there is aggressive NR in a manual shot at low ISO. You did not use manual focus here it was AF. I think AF worked for ISO 500 but maybe not for ISO 50. That i think is the reason the toy at ISO 500 looks more clear.
I cannot say about ISO 300 though.
If you still did not understand, then see this link.
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In the above you can see its more clear towards the center than top or bottom. For ISO 500, imagine the toy is in the centre, AF got it right.
i think with the ISO 50, toy is in the centre but AF picked the top. so it looks like this.
This happens when subject to camera distance is less than 2m. You say NR, i say (maybe) focus
Shot in manual with jpg and dng and compare how aggressive the noise reduction is applied to processed jpg as compare to dng even at low iso.
Dng output shows too much noise even at low iso and with adequate light though i have no other phone for comparison. This might be the reason why lg apply too much NR? Its like saying g4 camera is bad.
Yeah, you're not crazy. This is a serious issue.
I was coming from a Galaxy S6 and I bought the LG G4. Went to the park, took some photos of my son. Got home, saw them on the PC, zoomed in.....
Oh my Josh. It was horrible. Lots and lots of noise. And yes, the skin was the problem.
Took the same shots with a Galaxy S6 and they were just fine. Lots of detail, noise not even remotely close.
Bright sunny day outside.
Ramsey said:
I also believe that LG applies heavy noise reduction as soon as it detects skin. It feels like beauty mode with the rear camera, I don't like that!
Look at this shot of my daughter on a sunny day - ISO 50 - she was swinging so it was hard to capture but it worked: https://app.box.com/s/392vbptfazsw5hzblwt33o1btb6vgjme
I also saw it in many other shots that I took of my wife and other people without them moving .
What do you all think?
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Your photo indicates face detect 1.
So let me show you some counter examples from one of the members here. Both are presumably in auto so face detect triggers when it can detect otherwise it does not indicate it detected a face.
20150726_170009 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 0 so in theory no beauty face.
20150726_170024 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 2
See the little boy's face. Is there any beauty face there ? because i cannot tell the difference between the two. These are good examples as they are in the same lighting, similar pose with same subject, with and without face detect.
Another pair
20150726_164936 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 0
20150726_164941 by Alluisses Kock, on Flickr
Face detect 1
Any difference ? can't see it.
Check also the photos in his two albums, many portraits in there. i don't recall noticing any extra processing. This is the H815 but it should not make a difference.
Thanks @shurensly95 and do you have any opinion on this 'beauty face theory' ?

Comparison of camera modes - Shooting in Low-Light

Had a little bit of free-time so decided to do a simple test. What differences does the different camera modes provide in Low-Light?
Here is the album for the pictures: https://goo.gl/photos/iFc9Keoh9um1beks5
All shots were handheld, 8MP 16:9, landscape orientation. Unfortunately, I don't really have a DSLR sample for comparison but you can take my word that there wasn't much light (among the shots, SA and Handheld Twilight are closest to how dark the scene actually was but in reality, it was still a bit darker). On to the analysis:
Superior Auto - Night-Scene detected, NO tripod icon Even though it selected Night-Scene, it still seemed to select a rather high-ISO in this case, making it quite useless. How do you get the Tripod icon to appear when handheld? Do you have any tips for that or how long I have to wait for it to appear?
Manual Mode (ISO Auto, Metering Multi, Single Auto-Focus) - based on many observations, ISO in Manual mode generally is 1/2 of the ISO that is selected for Superior Auto. Most of the time I shoot stuff in this setting. Curiously, did anybody notice that the "Image Stabilizer" option disappeared?
Night Portrait - based on observations, seems to select a balance of the lowest ISO it could get with the slowest shutter-speed it can have to have a balanced exposure of the scene WITHOUT motion blur. This in contrast to the Night Scene mode.
Night Scene - based on observations, seems to prioritize getting the lowest ISO it can and slowest shutter-speed to get the best exposure BUT the main difference with Night Portrait is it does not care about motion blur! And yes, the shutter speed it selected was almost 1 sec but I have to be honest, it really took me quite a few tries to get that clear a shot without motion blur. You might also notice some wonky focus on the right-side.
Handheld Twilight - not really sure what this does but to me seems to perform like HDR? Takes a couple of pics then stitches them together to preserve detail? If you compare to the Superior Auto shot, it seems to have more detail in comparison (e.g. the frame with etched words).
Is there a best scene for shooting? I think it would depend on what you want to prioritize. For me, I would probably leave it in Manual / Night Portrait for general shooting and put it in Night-Scene mode for landscape shots. Lack of OIS is sad but not a deal-breaker for me, just have to be more patient and practice having steady hands to get that good shot.
Hope this have helped you and please feel free to add any information as needed!
Generally in most indoor scenarios, putting the camera manually into Night Portrait produces the best results - especially with flash. If you can get Superior Auto to bring up Tripod mode in Night scene, this is better but without tripod you're better off with Night Portrait, by en large (though Superior Auto has surprised me, on occasion - I'd love to recommend it but it's so dang hit-and-miss: sometimes it'll do better, sometimes worse. It's very inconsistent indoors).
Outdoors, if you can get Superior Auto showing Night Scene, snap away. If it spot meters to the brightest point, all the better. If you can get that tripod symbol up, you're really in business and this'll really do the job well.
Oddly, outdoors in low light, I've found Night Scene on manual to be just too damn tricky to get a shot without motion blur. On SA, it uses some form of stabilisation to help. IF you can get Manual Night Scene to work, it's marginally better than the Superior Auto equivalent but, in a complete reverse of the indoor results I get, you're best using Superior Auto's night modes outside. Weird.
BUT Don't use Superior Auto at night without a mode selected! It's screws everything up. The Low Light mode can be good in extreme darkness but if the lighting is moderate, sometimes Manual on automatic settings produces the cleaner image. If you've time to do it, drop the ISO on Manual to the lowest it can be while still exposing the scene correctly, if you're in a reasonably lit but imperfect area, like a streetlit housing estate, etc.
One of these days Sony will produce a camera that you can just point and shoot. One day.
PS: I've always found Handheld Twilight to be generally useless.
Timaustin2000 said:
Generally in most indoor scenarios, putting the camera manually into Night Portrait produces the best results - especially with flash. If you can get Superior Auto to bring up Tripod mode in Night scene, this is better but without tripod you're better off with Night Portrait, by en large (though Superior Auto has surprised me, on occasion - I'd love to recommend it but it's so dang hit-and-miss: sometimes it'll do better, sometimes worse. It's very inconsistent indoors).
Outdoors, if you can get Superior Auto showing Night Scene, snap away. If it spot meters to the brightest point, all the better. If you can get that tripod symbol up, you're really in business and this'll really do the job well.
Oddly, outdoors in low light, I've found Night Scene on manual to be just too damn tricky to get a shot without motion blur. On SA, it uses some form of stabilisation to help. IF you can get Manual Night Scene to work, it's marginally better than the Superior Auto equivalent but, in a complete reverse of the indoor results I get, you're best using Superior Auto's night modes outside. Weird.
BUT Don't use Superior Auto at night without a mode selected! It's screws everything up. The Low Light mode can be good in extreme darkness but if the lighting is moderate, sometimes Manual on automatic settings produces the cleaner image. If you've time to do it, drop the ISO on Manual to the lowest it can be while still exposing the scene correctly, if you're in a reasonably lit but imperfect area, like a streetlit housing estate, etc.
One of these days Sony will produce a camera that you can just point and shoot. One day.
PS: I've always found Handheld Twilight to be generally useless.
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Thanks for the tips I haven't yet encountered the tripod icon in Superior Auto mode except when I placed my Z5 on the table.. But handheld seems to be just impossible. Any tips to do it in handheld, aside from keeping my arms steady? I can keep my arms steady in manual Night Scene. How long do I have to wait to make it appear / what triggers does it look for based on your experience?
bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for the tips I haven't yet encountered the tripod icon in Superior Auto mode except when I placed my Z5 on the table.. But handheld seems to be just impossible. Any tips to do it in handheld, aside from keeping my arms steady? I can keep my arms steady in manual Night Scene. How long do I have to wait to make it appear / what triggers does it look for based on your experience?
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I wish I could tell you, lol. Tuck your elbows in against your ribs - that helps. If you can, lean your elbows on a arm rest or lean against a wall. You just need to be as steady as possible but it's tricky to do.
One tip; half pressing the camera key re-sets Superior Auto when released. If you do this a few times, it means that the mode is more active in looking for changes in exposure and behaviour and may help it come up quicker.
Once it does come up, half press and hold it and it should lock the mode so that you can find your focal point and take the shot.
Hope this helps.
I would add from myself the best results especially in detail are available throght Maual Mode 8mpx.
The autofocus is fast, low manual ISO and the usage of white balance gives really detailed pics even in low light.
It's also good to use tap-to-focus and consciously use light metering.
---------- Post added at 04:29 PM ---------- Previous post was at 04:26 PM ----------
bloodfire1004 said:
Thanks for the tips I haven't yet encountered the tripod icon in Superior Auto mode except when I placed my Z5 on the table.. But handheld seems to be just impossible. Any tips to do it in handheld, aside from keeping my arms steady? I can keep my arms steady in manual Night Scene. How long do I have to wait to make it appear / what triggers does it look for based on your experience?
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Click to collapse
Tripod appears actually only when the phone is set on a completely stable surface/stand.
Otherwise the phone detects any movement. Which is logical.
Thanks both for the helpful tips! Can't wait to try out and do my best to practice my 'tripod mode' Btw, what metering do you leave your phone at?
I've found to get tripod to appear reliably, shoot either while sitting or leaning/braced on something. I found it was the body swaying, and not the hands, that was causing most of the movement for me. If the tripod icon does not at first appear, take an initial shot in SA (without tripod icon), and it should then appear for the next shot.
Twilight mode means taking around 6 photos and interpolate the data between them all to create one final image. Samples are taken at high ISO and relatively fast shutter speed which it tries to keep fixed while changing ISO between samples. This results in a photo that has less noise, less chroma and preserves color and detail. Anti motionblur mode works similarly except parts of the samples with no blur are kept of each sample and then stitched together for final output.
EQ2000 said:
Twilight mode means taking around 6 photos and interpolate the data between them all to create one final image. Samples are taken at high ISO and relatively fast shutter speed which it tries to keep fixed while changing ISO between samples. This results in a photo that has less noise, less chroma and preserves color and detail. Anti motionblur mode works similarly except parts of the samples with no blur are kept of each sample and then stitched together for final output.
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Wow didn't know that before. Might be interesting to have a play around with those settings when I get the chance!
EQ2000 said:
Twilight mode means taking around 6 photos and interpolate the data between them all to create one final image. Samples are taken at high ISO and relatively fast shutter speed which it tries to keep fixed while changing ISO between samples. This results in a photo that has less noise, less chroma and preserves color and detail. Anti motionblur mode works similarly except parts of the samples with no blur are kept of each sample and then stitched together for final output.
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Interesting,.. but I've never once managed to get it to produce usable results.
i keep testing different settings in low light conditions (manual 8 mp and 20 mp and s. auto 8 mp and 20 mp) and manual 20 mp keeps winning for me. color reproduction is just the best.
i don't see why everybody seems so happy with s. auto 8 mp
Barthlon said:
i keep testing different settings in low light conditions (manual 8 mp and 20 mp and s. auto 8 mp and 20 mp) and manual 20 mp keeps winning for me. color reproduction is just the best.
i don't see why everybody seems so happy with s. auto 8 mp
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I am totally for Manual 8mpx.
Just because in real low light it's more crisp than 23mpx.
Other than that Manual 23mpx is great.
I can bring up the tripod quite consistently after the first shot (it keeps showing all those running, walking icons first time due to almost unavoidable initial motions).. Thanks to some helpful tips here, I'll have to try to get it up before the first shot.
One off-topic tip that could be pretty convenient. I'm pretty sure most of the Xperia shooters already know this. I leave the camera in my fav. manual mode (basically favorite ISO/res. & everything else set to auto or you could just pick a scene mode). I launch the camera using the awesome shutter button to get to auto mode directly. I tap the icon to launch the camera only when I need to get directly to my favorite manual 'preset'.
If we lock the iso as 200 in manual mode, I guess it is like a tripod mode, because the camera will adjust the shutter speed to match the iso , and it takes good pics in most circumstances.

Camera: tips for manual settings or auto to use in certain circumstances

Would people care to post tips about what are best settings to use in:
low light photos
fast subjects
etc,
Don't have this phone, but I can share some common knowledge.
There's a term often called "exposure triangle". Proper exposure is achieved by combining three variables - ISO, aperture, shutter speed. High ISO, wide aperture (low f-number) and low shutter speed give you more light. Depending on what you're shooting, you'd want to sacrifice one or the other. High ISO gives you more light at the expense of image quality. Wide aperture gives you more light at the expense of lower depth of field (which is not necessarily bad - e.g. may be intentionally desired). Low shutter speed gives you more light at the expense of not being able to give you a sharp image of something that's moving. Generally you can vary one to compensate for the other two. With most phones, the aperture is fixed, so you're left with only shutter speed and ISO.
For low light, you'd want to drop the shutter speed to something like 1/10 or 1/5 - if the subject is still and your hands are steady, you can have a sharp photo this way. The lower you drop the shutter speed, the lower ISO you will need to ensure proper exposure - and the lower the ISO, the cleaner the image given the exposure is proper - but don't try to keep the ISO low if it would result in an underexposed shot. Experiment with what is the lowest speed at which you can manage a sharp shot.
For fast subjects, it depends - sometimes 1/100 is enough, sometimes 1/500 is not enough - very much depends on what you're shooting (primarily how fast it is moving). Again, try it yourself.
killchain said:
Don't have this phone, but I can share some common knowledge.
There's a term often called "exposure triangle". Proper exposure is achieved by combining three variables - ISO, aperture, shutter speed. High ISO, wide aperture (low f-number) and low shutter speed give you more light. Depending on what you're shooting, you'd want to sacrifice one or the other. High ISO gives you more light at the expense of image quality. Wide aperture gives you more light at the expense of lower depth of field (which is not necessarily bad - e.g. may be intentionally desired). Low shutter speed gives you more light at the expense of not being able to give you a sharp image of something that's moving. Generally you can vary one to compensate for the other two. With most phones, the aperture is fixed, so you're left with only shutter speed and ISO.
For low light, you'd want to drop the shutter speed to something like 1/10 or 1/5 - if the subject is still and your hands are steady, you can have a sharp photo this way. The lower you drop the shutter speed, the lower ISO you will need to ensure proper exposure - and the lower the ISO, the cleaner the image given the exposure is proper - but don't try to keep the ISO low if it would result in an underexposed shot. Experiment with what is the lowest speed at which you can manage a sharp shot.
For fast subjects, it depends - sometimes 1/100 is enough, sometimes 1/500 is not enough - very much depends on what you're shooting (primarily how fast it is moving). Again, try it yourself.
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Exactly as mentioned above pretty much, I will add a little more.
Normal cameras you can change the aperture which in turn will also affect the required shutter speed for the correct exposure in the given shot. Your phone does not have this, only a fixed aperture, how you phone regulates this is through shutter speed and adjusting your ISO. Manual with all cameras is recommend for best results, as your camera can make bad decisions for these exposures.
Perfect example I can give you is the other night I was trying to photograph christmas lights, the camera was trying to illuminate the entire scene over exposing all the lights, I had to compensate this by underexposing by one stop what the camera was trying to expose.
If you have ever photographed scenes with lots of black and or lots of white, with black your phone overexposes and you black becomes greyish the rest of the shot is bright white. With white your phone underexposes, the white has lots of details but the background is very dark of completely black. it each of these situations if you don't take control you will not get the best out of the scene.
Thank you contributors. I found out that by changing the exposure my screen darkens quite a lot but when I take the photo comes out a lot lighter. What is that about? Is it not wysiwig?
mihaid said:
Thank you contributors. I found out that by changing the exposure my screen darkens quite a lot but when I take the photo comes out a lot lighter. What is that about? Is it not wysiwig?
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The camera is trying to show you a real time image, so in low light it has to keep the shutter faster to keep up with you moving the camera, if they didn't do this and it was showing you real time in low light you would have to wait the exposure time, this would get really annoying as you have to wait for each frame to refresh
So in summary they have a minimum shutter they show in the screen preview (not sure what this is) maybe 1/15 sec so it can keep up with you panning/moving the camera
The Sony display tries to improve the look of photos, you have noticed when you view a photo that it changes while you are looking at it.
If you want a less post-processing you can use "Landscape" mode. You will get visible color noise in low light situations but also more detail in dark areas. A bit like what G4/V10 does and depeding on scene it can be passable. In good lighting it brings out the details better than other modes. It does though like to up the ISO but it can be countered with the EV.
Does people even have the phone to make comments, the only settings in manual mode is change iso value that's it, there is no shutter speed at least not in Sony stock camera app
Sent from my E6653 using Tapatalk
You can change most of the settings mentioned above using the Fv-5 app, try it
babarmaqbool said:
good
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Stop with the good spam in each thread please.
Sent from my SM-T710 using Tapatalk
Vcaddy said:
You can change most of the settings mentioned above using the Fv-5 app, try it
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It is not free (lite version is horrible) and can only shoot long exposure in 2.1 MP.
I bet it doesn't even shoot a real long exposure, I think it just shoots a video into a picture.
BTW, normal photos can only be taken in 8mp max.
This phone needs a real manual mode like the G4 because the phone really does not deal with low light well due to lack of control in the app. FV-5 is useless really as it's only 8mp and doesn't really do any better than stock on this phone or the G4
Jonathan-H said:
This phone needs a real manual mode like the G4 because the phone really does not deal with low light well due to lack of control in the app. FV-5 is useless really as it's only 8mp and doesn't really do any better than stock on this phone or the G4
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Agreed.
Long exposure in vf-5 app is only 2.1mp btw.

Using Manual Mode (Camera) for much (much!) better photography.

I think we can all agree that the camera's auto mode can be a little weak on low light, fast moving objects, and focus.
However, I have gotten ridiculously amazing results using manual settings. To the point where I wish (if anyone from oneplus is seeing this, please please implement it) I could set up various quick-access custom manual mode presets. It would be a very good feature (does anyone know an app that has that btw?).
With a little tweaking, you can find a super sweet spot for a picture on certain conditions.
The following are examples on a very low light scenario with no image movement and minimal hand movement (exact same environment conditions on all):
- Normal mode
- Normal mode with HDR
- Normal mode with HQ
- Manual mode with ISO at 400, and shutter speed at 4s. Then touch and raise finger on screen to place exposure point, and then touch same spot and drag to place focus point.
I was shocked to see that this camera could actually capture something like that last shot in my home's corridor at 2am, when the normal modes barely gave me anything visible.
That setting is working very well for me on multiple very low light situations. Really wish we had some quick-access presets.
There are also settings which can capture images with fast moving targets (with low shutter speeds and a little higher ISOs), and usually I don't get blurry shots with focus on infinite or when selecting focus point.
Things to avoid are super high ISO's like 6400 which for some reason the normal mode is very fond of using even though on manual we can only get up to 3200.
Not sure why you would prefer blurry 4s shot over noisy high ISO shot? Yes auto mode isn't as good as the one compared to LG or Samsung flagships but even manual mode has its limitations. 1/8s is pretty much the limit of what you can shoot with OIS and that is only if you have super steady hands. Most phones with OIS can give quite good results at 1/16s and ISO 100 onwards depending on the lighting. Anything else like 1s or longer exposure and you'll need a tripod . By the way max ISO is only 3200 so you can't go higher.
Oneplus 3T noise reduction algorithm is quite bad and even at 100 ISO which should be super clean in daylight is probably one of the worst in the class.
gedas5 said:
Not sure why you would prefer blurry 4s shot over noisy high ISO shot? Yes auto mode isn't as good as the one compared to LG or Samsung flagships but even manual mode has its limitations. 1/8s is pretty much the limit of what you can shoot with OIS and that is only if you have super steady hands. Most phones with OIS can give quite good results at 1/16s and ISO 100 onwards depending on the lighting. Anything else like 1s or longer exposure and you'll need a tripod . By the way max ISO is only 3200 so you can't go higher.
Oneplus 3T noise reduction algorithm is quite bad and even at 100 ISO which should be super clean in daylight is probably one of the worst in the class.
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maybe RAW is a solution here?
I have been trying Open Camera for the last couple of days. Seems to take much better low light photos. Not as good as my 6p but at least the photos dont look over processed and washed out.

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