Database Users

GPS

Hey guys, can someone confirm that when using the GPS function it does or does not use data plan? I know some phones such as the iPhone and Blackberry uses data for GPS, and I know the Touch HD is not required as it has the GPS receiver in the device. If someone can confirm this that would be appreciated.
Thanks

Hi!
No the phone has built in GPS Receiver

Awesome, I'm glad that they don't use data for the GPS function, that would be such a killer on data. Thanks for clarifying.

A GPS by definition must not use data. There are other methods of determining location besides GPS, but they are definitely not called GPS. Note that your device, though equipped with a GPS can ALSO use the cell network for finding its location.

So in the case of the iPhone 3g, what would you call that? My dad uses his "GPS" quite a bit but of course uses the data to download the maps. I'm assuming that the HTC Magic has the maps downloaded on the phone already therefore not needing data. Also when the cellphone uses the cell network to triangulate your position, that is not using data correct? I appreciate all the responses and clarification.
Thanks!

I have no knowledge or interest in apple junk.
However, you seem to be confusing the GPS with *what you do with* the data from the GPS. In your example, to me it sounds like it probably has a normal GPS that does NOT use data. GPS does NOT provide maps, pictures, or anything of the sort. GPS provides locational information by comparing the signals from several satellites to generate information like latitude, longitude, altitude, and bearing. This is all a bunch of numbers that the typical user won't be able to make much use of, so along with the GPS itself, you have some program that *does something* with the data. If you use google maps, then your phone will pull appropriate information from google's servers based on the information retrieved from the GPS. Another program that you could use, for example, is "gps status" (available on the market, use "gps status 2" for android 1.5 equipped devices), this will display the GPS information (and accelerometer) withOUT the maps/pictures/etc., and thus will NOT use any data from your data plan.
Regarding the cell tower location method... it doesn't use any data plan data, however, that does not mean that it is free.... check with your provider for specifics. Generally, cell tower location is crude whereas GPS is fine.
Does that help to clarify things?

Yes it does, thanks for your reply.

Other questions... CAn I use GPS software without Internet connection? Or I need all time internet to magic downlaod maps and info? It is any program Tomtom style for android? Thanks.

if someone has, or does release an application that contains its own map tiles, it will be entirely free to use, but will probably cost a fair amount to buy (the map tiles don't come cheap to the developers). Also I would expect such an app to be fairly large, and (if it does even fit) would eat up most or all of the 512 MB you can store your software in.
thinking about it, they could always give you an sd card with the maps and only have a fairly small app in the phone memory. although that's another matter
As long as an app uses google maps (or other online map resources), it will cost you data to use it.

Do you have to have data plan for GPS?

I have T-Mobile USA. Can I use the GPS without a data plan?

What is meant by data plan ?

azahidi said:
What is meant by data plan ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Internet Plan
I only have a plan with minutes and no internet.

DanRo80 said:
Internet Plan
I only have a plan with minutes and no internet.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Some GPS applications, e.g. Garmin mobile and many freeware GPS apps, do not require internet connection. Google maps mobile requires internet connection, of course.

azahidi said:
Some GPS applications, e.g. Garmin mobile and many freeware GPS apps, do not require internet connection. Google maps mobile requires internet connection, of course.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And you are not able to use QuickGPS for faster detection of the satellites.
But I do not know if this is necessary/useful for these programs.

MvBoe said:
And you are not able to use QuickGPS for faster detection of the satellites.
But I do not know if this is necessary/useful for these programs.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
True that QuickGPS is supposed to assist in faster GPS detection. However I am not sure how much faster, I mean by how many seconds faster (no empirical measure). From my experience, satellite detection without QuickGPS updated for a few weeks, is still quite fast, a few ten seconds - but still dependant on the sky/cloud condition. I am talking from where I live - equatorial. I am not sure about north of the tropics (Europe and N.America)

A definite no!
You do not need a data plan to use the GPS! Depending on which cellular company you go with, some of their people will try to tell or sell you on a plan. You do not need it.
For WM 5 and above, it is recommended that you let WM manage your GPS for all programs. To do this go to the System Settings tab and select the External GPS app (why it is called external is beyond me). Then move through the tabs to configure the GPS. Ideally, use a port that is not in use. I typically use 9. Then click the box to have WM manage the GPS for all programs that need data from it.
Now, you just need software and there is plenty of free programs out. One utility I recommend is GPS Toggle (http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/ppc-download-gps-toggle.html ). This small Today screen plug-in will turn on the Jade GPS to quote warm it up for you. If the GPS has not been turned on in awhile, it can take up to 10 minutes or longer to have it lock onto four satellites which is what is considered necessary for satellite navigation (satnav). During this period, the satellites will use your time signal as one of the primary pieces of info to sync your GPS. Then based upon the positon of the satellites, they will identify your location. Once they have downloaded enough data to the GPS and are in sync, your GPS will become satnav capable.
Another app you might to look at is GPSToday (http://www.freewarepocketpc.net/ppc-download-gpstoday-v0-9.html#). I recommend setting this app as separate one and not a Today screen plug-in but that is your choice after reviewing what it is capable of doing. I love that it can geotag pictures taken by Jade which basically takes quote dumb or pictures that do not have typical computer info written into them. You can even use it to mark where you parked your car (at a stadium or large event), store the coordinates and have it navigate back to your car. Another good use is for geocaching.
These are just two small apps. What you really want now is iGO8 (highly recommended), TomTom or another commercial software program.
__________________
WM 6.5 HTC T3232 (clone)
running iGO8

Everywhere I look it seems that iGO8 is only for iPhone, but people say they are using it. I am also in the United States.

DanRo80 said:
Everywhere I look it seems that iGO8 is only for iPhone, but people say they are using it. I am also in the United States.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you look here (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=472110&highlight=gps+software), it might give you an idea. iGo8 has been used on Jade.

azahidi said:
If you look here (http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=472110&highlight=gps+software), it might give you an idea. iGo8 has been used on Jade.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I was in there. It's just that the website said that it was for the iPhone and it looked like it was for Europe only. Nevermind, I am just dopey. I see that it is also for America and Canada.

Optimal GPS settings for faster GPS lock on HD2? (Also using GarminXT)

Hi all,
I didnt want to start a new thread, but after searching the forums and google for a long time, i decided to bring it up
So ive had my HD2 for about 2 days now, and I recently installed GarminXT (I used to have it on my Nokia N82)
the problem i'm finding is that the GPS doesnt lock as fast as i thought it would be..
GarminXT has not been locking on (little over 5 minutes now)
I'm a noob to Windows Mobile and HTC so please bear with me!
1. How do i know A-GPS is working? Is it automatically enabled? (This wasnt the case for Nokia as you could manually turn off A-GPS and use strictly GPS signal). Under Location settings i have "Location Service Settings" = ON
and HTC Location Service = ON
2. Im still not 100% sure what QuickGPS does. I've read about it , but all i concluded was that it uses your data to get a faster GPS lock.
So i tried running QuickGPS and it updates no problem.
I open GarminXT and it doesnt lock on. Do i need to use this?
3. Can someone tell me if these are the optimal GPS settings? I kept searching around the forum but cant find one specific to the HD2.
So under "All Settings" > System > External GPS
Programs Tab > GPS Program Port = COM4
Hardware Tab > GPS Hardware Port = None > Baud rate = 4800
Access Tab > Managa GPS Auto = Checked
Are these settings correct? Or are there "tweaks" to it that I can change?
4. One last question:
Under GarminXT, i have the ability to choose 3 GPS options:
"Use Bluetooth GPS"
"Use GPS Intermediate Driver" = Checked
"Use Serial GPS" > Once selected, i get 4 other options to choose:
COM1: Bluetooth Serial Port
COM2: Bluetooth Serial Port
COM4: COM4:
COM9: 7500 COM port
Does anyone know if i should be checked on "Use GPS Intermediate Driver" or if i should be checking off "Serial GPS" > COM 4?
This is my first WinMo device with a data plan (I'm on EDGE speeds cause I'm in Canada), but I always had the impression AGPS would really help the lock times.
Anyone with help would be GREATLY appreciated!
Again, loving the new HD2
Thanks

For GarminXT, use intermediate driver.
For Google maps, use Com4, 4800 rate, that enables use of the compass.
Quick GPS should increase startup, and so far I had all fixes on HD2 under 30 seconds, and I did not change anything.
Normally GPS would download information about orbits of satellites from the satellites. That can take time, as it is one way communication and GPS can't ask satellite to send data again in case of error, it must wait untill the satellite starts sending them again by itself.
It is much faster to get that data via network .. and that is exactly what QuickGPS is for. Problem is that at least on my previous X1 there were many problems with it. The data from network was sometimes completely wrong, and you had to delete the file manually. That information is in temp\xtra.bin. Try to delete it and try again. QuickGPS does not test existence of the file, it will download new one in predefined time.
I'm still a bit confused about aGPS. I'm not sure what it is. Some people state it is the same thing as QuickGPS. Some say it is something to get quick basic fix based on BTS. But I haven't seen that in any application, except Google maps, and they seem to use their own technology and data for that.
But AFAIK, those 'location services' is generally Google's 'my location' exposed for other HTC applications.

I set it on max rate, do i do a mistake? I think that this is setting the speed or Im wrong?! Im connecting with sattelites below 15sec, with no other tweaks or quickgps...

^^
what's "max rate"?
btw, thanks for the replies
i'll look into deleting the cache file for QuickGPS and see if it does anything

Quick GPS allows you to download a weeks worth of GPS satellite position data (almanac data) at one time, helpful if for example you don't have a data plan - you can get your A-GPS data in one hit over WiFi. It helps speed lock time.
Not sure what is happening with yours, mine always locks in Garmin within 7-15 seconds, I have Quick GPS set to autoupdate, but otherwise no special tweaks or modifications where GPS is concerned.

Same here - in fact, the HD2's locking faster to GPS than my Touch HD ever did. I'm getting locks in the garage now whereas before I had none with my Touch HD. Haven't touched the default WM GPS settings or the Garmin one at all since I upgraded to the HD2.

GPs lover-Google map hater
Hi guys, firstly thanks for this thread as i too look for answer...and find some only here
i had the Diamond and now the HD2 and share the love.
Garmin maps are much more accurate and have even the smallest unpaved roads which Google map lacks. Google is so basic maps, i simply hate it...sorry Google...not to mention that it cost money to be online all the time
HD2 GPS confuse me. Sorry if I ask u basic staff but could not figure it up myself:
1. using the GPS w/google map, how u set simple setting, as: "north up" or ""track up" Route setting such as "faster time" or any other basic settings that I always had on my Garmin GPS including Garmin mobile XT?
2. What happend to voice navigation wiith google?
3. Reading your info, does it means that I can install Garmin mobile XT I got with Diamond on HD2 ?
4. Anybody know TomTom for HD2 (which I will get shotly from HTC?
I trust someone out here is smarter than me and will come to rescue

hey guys,
my HD2 is fine now, usually i just do a QuickGPS connect before opening Garmin XT and now it connects SUPER fast...usually under 10 seconds
Thanks for all the help!!

Google is not, and does not set out to be a full satellite navigation prpgram, so it doesn't have stuff such as 'North Up', 'Track Up' etc, nor does it have spoken directions.
For these you need a dedicated SatNav program like Garmin, TomTom, CoPilot or iGO8 which are all 'paid-for' applications.
TomTom will run fine but TomTom don't officially support it, meaning you can't download the correct vesion direct from their website. There are easy ways around this though!
With regard to some of the earlier posts- the HD2 can aquire a fix faster than any other device I've used (and I've used a lot!). I find QuickGPS makes very little difference, but as it uses only a small amaount of data I keep it updated.
QuickGPS and A-GPS are not the same thing, though there are quite a few different definitions of A-GPS. Genuine A-GPS is not used in UK, nor as far as I know anywhere else in Europe except by dedicated programs and platforms set up with the infrastructure (such as Apple, who use it to enhance the poor performance of the iPhone's GPS chip). It is used in the Far East, and works by enhancing your accuracy of positioning by using the data channels to send your current cell ID plus any other availble stuff like WiFi hotspot info, which is correlated to a database of locations, and sent back as an approximate position to the phone. Google Maps uses something like this if a GPS signal is not available- the 'Locate Me' feature will show you in a radius of around 1km.
The Baud rate makes no ostensible difference to the lock times or accuracy, as the data stream from the satellites is far lower than even the lowest baud rate. The NMEA default is 4800, and most software is happy to connect at that rate.

The google maps GPS finds me within 80 metres.. that's not accurate right? cause it puts it on wrong street technically.. When I first got it it did 800 metres =/

WOW, that was fast, thank you NeilM.
I will get Tomtom for free from HTC as it is included with Thai purchaded HD2.
Meanwhile I will try to load Garmin XT that I got with My Diamond at the time, let's see if the activation works...
As for Goole, well, I get 60 meter accuracy at the best, that make ones totaly lost in a city and for sure miss a turn, what a pity.
Thanks again for ever so fast reply.

When Google Maps is started it is finding your position throught the carrier's network and that is why it is not acurate at all. There is an option however, named "Use the GPS" in goolge maps and it becomes as acurate as any other navigation software It just have to engage an GPS lock as the others so do not blame google on this one Hence, you are not using the GPS when you get the inacurate positioning For the maps however you still have to be online But if you pay for your Garmin, iGo maps it would be that expensive and you can use it wherever you are ...

You absolutly right. i did use the "use gps" and it's accurate. The thing is that as heavy GPS user the lack of detailed info on google maps, and the inability to set the maps at your convinient (such as "track up" for example) it's nearly a secure way to go crazy while nevigating, specially off road...try to tilt your head to understand your position in real time when you turning and turning. Thanks for the gps tip.

I agree. Curent version of Google Maps is not suitable for navigation while driving indeed! It can help you get orientated sometimes or if you are looking for something big iGo and Garmin are in a whole new league of navigation sofware for now. However, the new version of Google Maps should be at least as good as the others but it is only available for Android at the moment and I dont see it coming to WM any time soon so we will have to stick to iGo, Garmin, TomTom and the others. I'm not using Google Maps for navigation at all by the way so It wouldn't be so difficult for me )

ragelord said:
the new version of Google Maps should be at least as good as the others but it is only available for Android at the moment and I dont see it coming to WM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's called google navigation, not google maps - and it seems to kill every GPS program available today (thank god).

hey guys,
on the same topic, but different nav software. i use iGO 8, can someone please tell me what the optimal setting are for port and baud rate? i did the auto-detect and the signal is a little on/off.
also... is there a way to get iGO 8 to use the HD2s compass? i like the stand-alone compass of the HD2, but i think it would be swell to be able to have iGO's compass function working aswell.
sorry if this has been discussed before, if there is another thread i should be reading... please direct me there.
thanks for all your help.
cheers.

conscept said:
The google maps GPS finds me within 80 metres.. that's not accurate right? cause it puts it on wrong street technically.. When I first got it it did 800 metres =/
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Eh, if I'm not wrong, that's agps at work.
It'll find you with the nearest base station. then slowly try to triangulate you. Normally, you'll be in an area with only 1 base station, so there's not much triangulation going on.
When I'm in city, it's pretty accurate. I get my approx distance within a couple of seconds, wait another 10 - 20 secs to get gps fix.

A-Gps and other things
A-GPS is just one thing: Assisted GPS. It is a toggle-- when you toggle it on, in your phone's settings, you will get the locational assistance of the cell towers. That is the towers them selves, two or more towers and your phone triangulate to give an approximation of your location. GPS also uses triangulation (derived from simple trigonometry equations) to determine your location and is much more accurate. In fact it can be ever more accurate as your device locks onto more satellites. I have found that the best thing to do is to turn off A-GPS. I don't know what it is but Googlemaps seems to have a terrible time locking onto satellites on Windows Mobile. But I have found, especially on Android 1.6 and above you get very rapid locks so long as you wipe out the telenav program. I strongly suspect that Google is undermining Windows Mobile in favor of supporting their Android system. They have turn by turn for Android but not for Windows Mobile and it seems like they are also building it not to lock sats nearly as well. You can force it to get moving by pre opening the GPS or other methods just prior to running google maps.
I think everyone should write google and tell them to fully support Windows Mobile (Phone)... T-Mobile is just about set to come out with the HTC HD2 in about a week (March 24th) and I intend to get one. I am not happy that it doesn't have a physical keyboard cloned from the Touch Pro 2, but I expect to like most of the rest of it.
Turning Location on is another thing. You are henceforth allowing all applications to know and your location. this can be helpful but it can also be a potential privacy risk. Of course it's easy to turn off and on. You might want to read the fine print.

Actually, I have a more basic question. Is there a soft "switch" or software application to actually turn the GPS on? On my HD2 I have a few GPS apps and all of them report the GPS being on or "no GPS Device found". Even Goggle maps, if I siwtch to USE GPS mode, keeps endlessly waiting for a GPS signal and then nothing happens. What am I doing wrong?
Thanks much

Gps htc hd2
In my experience with windows mobiles and internal gps, manage gps automatically is best and no ports should be assigned at all unless using bluetooth gps receiver! Also, sounds crazy too many but no every location on this big earth is withing available to public gps devices gps satelite paths (satelites going around the earth!) Make sure your outside the house or flat before thinking your gps ain't picking up. My hd2 is fast, my old mda3 was too and worked better inside but thats down to i was living in a different location at the time and at an higher altitude i would say. 1 of many other reasons could be that the military could be using the sat at the time which would render it unavail to public (offline)!

GPS.....A-GPS SCAM?? The gps drama sequel....

****************************************************************
"EDIT" UPDATE (7 oct. 2010)
Well you dont need to go actually much further then this first post!
Things got out of context over here, furthermore I decided to give
my external gps receiver a break and run some more tests with
the internal one of my SGS.
And the results I got were much better than any
other phone I tested before. Except the ones with a build-in SirfstarIII chipset.
If you have Gps issues,Just move on to this thread:
2nd edit (20 Oct, 2010): That thread was removed without any warning or explanation so I posted the videos in another thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=8903056#post8903056
END EDIT
RCinFLA said:
Like to share my experience as cellphone chipset designer and my dealing with various parties involved with GPS in phones.
Many of the issues are caused by business interests involved and there are quite a few parties plying to control location based services revenue stream.
SUPL, secure user plane protocol AGPS was created by network operators interest in mine, with the objective of putting them in the controlling position when it comes to extracting revenue from location based applications on their network.
Control plane AGPS is a general system where network operator independent entities can create a assist server along with possible services offering. They can encrypt their access to allow only subcribed (paying) users to access their service. The network operators has little control over this scheme.
With SUPL, in most cases, network operators outsource the location server function. Network operator hold location of their cell tower, as a total database, in close confidence. The network tower locations are also very dynamic over time. I believe the AGPS contractors don't get reliable and timely updates from the network operators.
Then there are third party business like 'Skyhook' which is trying to work around the network operator roadblocks by establishing a 'ponzi scheme' server database. If your phone has a good GPS location lock and detects a WiFi network, Skyhook's background app will have your phone send a message to their server reporting the SSID of the WiFi and its location. They then sell their server AGPS service to other companies, like Motorola, for inclusion in their phone software. Motorola may run into conflict with network operators. A network operator might refuse to buy a Motorola phone model with Skyhook installed on it. I noticed from the Captivate forum that the ATT version of Galaxy S has Skyhook capability.
Google is the 900 pound gorilla and is trying to wrestle control of location based services from network operators.
Finally there are the GPS chip manufacturers. Almost all of them have an AGPS server scheme of their own and try to promote it. The frontend processing (up to recovery of raw 50 bps satellite data) has unique hardware and firmware that are considered proprietary by the GPS chip manufacturer. In most cases a phone manufacturers like Samsung or Motorola are not allowed to have the software source code for this firmware or information on the actual interface protocol to the GPS chip. They are given a bundled binary file that the phone manufacturer software just dumps to the GPS chip at startup.
It is now up to the phone manufacturer to implement the GPS chip and antenna systems (along with WiFI, Bluetooth, Near Field Comm, and multi-band cellular) and provide software interfaces and drivers necessary to run the GPS function.
For size and cost reasons most recent GPS chips rely on the main application processor within the phone to actually do the GPS fix calculations. The software for this is provided by the GPS chip supplier but it must be coordinated with the particular applications processor chip used by the phone. It must share processing time slicing with the apps processor and work with operating system software resources such as RAM and ROM management running on the phone.
This is the first obsticle as most of the GPS chip suppliers have little expertise in the OS's that may be used (like Android or Symbian). The phone manufacturer usually has to provide help to create and debug the GPS driver software but the drivers are responsible/owned by the GPS chip supplier. There can be unique hardware/software interfaces that must be dealt with, like providing GPS TCXO calibration and cellular corrected frequency timebase to the GPS chip.
Then there is the OS's GPS interface. There can be translation software layers involved here. One such interface is based on GPS NMEA protocol but with additional hooks for things unique to phone operation like battery saver power strobing, and the complicated Secure User Plane or Control plane interface.
The AGPS system design landscape is litered with intellectual properties (patents) by many parties. Qualcomm is a dominate player here since their aquistion of SnapTrak company years ago. Royalties are paid to Qualcomm for every WCDMA phone sold, not only in AGPS area, but on basic CDMA patents used in a UMTS (Wideband CDMA) phones.
Now as to Samsung Galaxy S implementation of Broadcom GPS.
I think there is a lot of evidence that Samsung had early issues with the GPS antenna contact hardware. This has probably been corrected on recently manufactured phones.
I think the firmware supplied by Broadcom has the bandwidth of the correlators tighted down to provide greater sensitivity. This is great as long as there is a very good AGPS system to provide initial satellite ephemeris data. Without a good AGPS network providing satellite information the initial search and lock can take a very long time with narrow bandwidth frequency bins.
I have not seen evidence with my experience that my two Vibrants are receiving any reliable AGPS information from the T-Mobile network. They do seem to get rough Almanac satellite info from Google or other third party apps. These may be based on WiFi detection more then T-Mobile cell tower locations.
In LBStest I noticed that GPS Operational Mode has been set to 'Standalone'. I interpret this to mean AGPS is deactived. I don't see any difference when I switch to MS based assist, and clear the GPS saved memory to prevent it from prejudicing time to first fix lock test. Switching SUPL server to supl.google.com and port 7276 (with MS based operational setting) just seems to make my phone lockup for short periods of time.
Once phone does get full lock on satellites its performance is quite good. (my two Vibrant's were purchased in early Feb 2011). It rivals my Garmin SiRFstar III based GPS unit in locked on sensitivity while inside a building.
I think the AGPS system issues will get worked out over time.
The Qualcomm based CDMA2000 systems (like Verizon) will likely have better initial coordination on AGPS system operation. CDMA2000 also provides network timebase directly compatible with GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*******************************************************************
All this nagging about GPS.....that it is not working in many devices and it's working in other many.....and of course I am talking about those ones who still would go for ONLINE gps navigation.....
In my humble opinion, what you guys should be asking yourselfs and the big corporations is, why nowadays, 99% of the smartphones(so not just sgs), even the most expensive ones are build with weak, less capable internal gps receivers, forcing users to go online(celular network /a-gps) or using external bluetooth gps receivers to get stable satellite fixes that means stable navigation.
Years ago, many of the first smartphones came with sirfstar chipsets or alike , so once again, why not now? That's the question that should not be ignored or forgotten.
A friend of mine, that would not dare to pay more than a 100 box for a phone, bought an ancient ETEN device on a sale for 40 box with that old windows mobile 5 and guess what...the internal gps get fast fixes just like any standalone gps device because it got the same sirfstarIII chipset
Why the heck, the expensive so called high-end smartphones of today are not build with better gps chipsets? Why A-gps? So we are forced to get data accounts?
And what happens when I want to navigate abroad? Roaming?
For data transfer and internet I use wifi; I have it at home and I find hotspots everywhere...I will save those extra 120 euros(or more) per year (data account costs)
And nobody will force me to get one(internet/data account); not even for gps navigation that I so much use..
I use gps navigation only offline, using a external bluetooth device on a daily basis and, many times abroad; it works like a charm on my SGS; and I am talking about serious GPS car navigation software like iGo, Sygic, Navigon etc. .
Don't even use Google maps or alike.
I cannot tell you how my sgs is doing on online navigation, I dont have a data account so I wont even try it.
But once Samsung get this online gps navigation thing fixed, you guys should concentrate your energy on the real issue:
The A-gps scam
And for all the corporations out there: Just deliver a device with a capable gps chipset and you will sell millions..
And for all the users out there: Just get a good compact external bluetooth gps receiver and stop nagging....
Thanks to 3rd party developers, the Android OS on my SGS can be "fooled" and I can connect any navigation software to my bluetooth gps receiver threw programs like Bluetooth Gps Mouse Unlimited and Gps Provider.
I do have to " allow mock locations" at settings first...
« »

¿Ein? You don need data to get GPS fix, A-GPS is only an aid to get faster fixes
I thtink you're a littel misinformed

LOL.. o boy.. the AGPS is to help say if your indoors so you can get a faster lock... the phone will work without it.

Ummm I can see why you would think what you think, but I do believe you are wrong.
Firstly: as far as I'm aware, the SGS has the same GPS chip as the latest TomTom standalone unit.
Secondly: I guess AGPS is a data feature, it uses the triangulation of cell towers and pulls information to assist a sat lock, but it is not really a different way of using GPS. Ultimately you still need to get a sat lock to use a GPS App.
So it may speed up this lock, but it won't replace it. It just means it'll take you a little longer to get a sat lock than without it.
So you have the choice use it or don;t use it, no-one is forcing you to use data.
Logicalstep

Oletros said:
¿Ein? You don need data to get GPS fix, A-GPS is only an aid to get faster fixes
I thtink you're a littel misinformed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol those online translators dont work that smoothly...
I don't need a data/internet account to use celular networks aid, that means a-gps.That mean going online via 3g or 2g...
But IF I don.t have a data/internet account added to my phone subscription, my phone costs will be much higher depending on my use....
You are missing the point anyway...

betoNL said:
Lol those online translators dont work that smoothly...
I don't need a data/internet account to use celular networks aid, that means a-gps.That mean going online via 3g or 2g...
But IF I don.t have a data/internet account added to my phone subscription, my phone costs will be much higher depending on my use....
You are missing the point anyway...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, you're missing the point, you don't need any kind of data connection to use GPS, you can use it offline

Exactly...already the first line of Wikipedia says it: "Assisted GPS, generally abbreviated as A-GPS, is a system which can improve the startup performance of a GPS satellite-based positioning system."
There is, however, a related issue w/r/t A-GPS and a data account. Back on WinMo, I could download the ephemeris data to speed up the GPS fix for one week in advance (I think it was called QuickGPS or something on my HTC TouchHD, also had sth. like it on an old Eten). This allowed you to get a quick fix for said week, even without a data connection. Android, on the other hand, seems to download this data on the fly - meaning that if you don't have a data account you will experience a slow fix until your almanac has been filled "naturally" by the satellites you're seeing. I experienced that while on vacation this year without a roaming data contract - it took me a good 3-5 minutes to get the first fix and it was good from there on (well, as good as the SGS GPS gets ). I'd love to have some tool that does exactly what QuickGPS did, but I am not aware of anything like it.

TriC_101 said:
LOL.. o boy.. the AGPS is to help say if your indoors so you can get a faster lock... the phone will work without it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have always smile in my face when someone thinks he can get a lock indoors..
Yes in a cartoon box you can. Not in real building I'm afraid.
And for all those who think SGS's GPS is usable without A.
Try it.
You will see.
Dont post things you just caught on wikipedia.

xan said:
I have always smile in my face when someone thinks he can get a lock indoors..
Yes in a cartoon box you can. Not in real building I'm afraid.
And for all those who think SGS's GPS is usable without A.
Try it.
You will see.
Dont post things you just caught on wikipedia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can get a lock on 6-7 Sat no problem inside.... and so can lots of others.. don't know what your doing wrong but its not hard to get a lock inside.

Pics or it didnt happen

seems you all are little misinformed as to how the gps on android specifically sgs works. It is actually three systems at work here. Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast).then you have agps that downloads preloads data regarding satellite location in regards to your position via network instead of downloading same data directly from satellite thereby saving time. Both these can be used without checking network location in settings so to recap if your network location is unchecked you are still using agps as long as you have network connection (data connection that is).and samsungs system for agps being better than others cause it downloads data for while week as opposed to others downloading data everyone gps is turned on. Third level is network triangulation via cell towers that gets you that instant lock at the cost of accuracy useful mainly to let apps get your general location without having to engage real gps thereby saving power as well as give maps a chance to start calculating route while gps is still getting lock therefore appearing to operate faster.

Idan73 said:
Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Standalone gps's got their batterys, and thus they start "warm".
Thing is, standalone SRIF3/4 gps gets a warm lock without any AGPS nor network triangulation within 5-10 seconds. SGS (and bunch of top-of-the pack devices) cant come even close to that.

the GPS on the SGS works fine offline
i don't even have data on when going on long road trips
you just need an offline GPS software with maps, like CoPilot or some other one you like

xan said:
Standalone gps's got their batterys, and thus they start "warm".
Thing is, standalone SRIF3/4 gps gets a warm lock without any AGPS nor network triangulation within 5-10 seconds. SGS (and bunch of top-of-the pack devices) cant come even close to that.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sure they do. Sgs warm lock is 5 to 10 seconds as well. To test get the lock first then turn of data and network lock then start gps.restart of the phone same as restart of the standalone counts as a cold boot and takes about minute.

xan said:
Pics or it didnt happen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here ya go.... I don't have to prove anything just look on youtube.. This is the phone on for just 10sec.. if I had waited it would get down to about 10 feet... this pic was taken in a room where I get the lowest signal. and I live in a Condo with 2 foot concrete walls.. I don't have a digital camera.. this was taken with my old Samsung dumb phone.. but it does prove you can get a lock inside no problem.. also if i'm in a house I can get 6-7 sats to lock in the condo 5 at the most in that room.

only 3 sats and maybe the walls are thin

Polarfuchs said:
only 3 sats and maybe the walls are thin
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL Trust me the walls and not thin.. i'm on the 10th floor of a 25 floor Condo complex. I get alot more signal is a house.. Now my X10 can get about 7 Sats locked in the same room. and down to 5 feet. but the point was you can get a lock inside..

I'll try it.
I live in a 3 stories house at ground floor. The shutters are down and I'm 1 meter away from the windows.
After 3 Minutes I get 5 sats in view but none used.
I'll hang on.

Even after 10 Minutes I only have 5 satellites in View and zero in Use.
So no fix for me.
The numbers on top of the bars are from 15 to 25.

Logicalstep said:
Ummm I can see why you would think what you think, but I do believe you are wrong.
Firstly: as far as I'm aware, the SGS has the same GPS chip as the latest TomTom standalone unit.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Most of Tomtom devices got a SiRFstarIII™ GPS chipset
If the GS got such one the amount of GPS threads in this Forum would be reduced considerably
What is your awareness based on?
Oletros said:
No, you're missing the point, you don't need any kind of data connection to use GPS, you can use it offline
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Idan73 said:
seems you all are little misinformed as to how the gps on android specifically sgs works. It is actually three systems at work here. Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast).then you have agps that downloads preloads data regarding satellite location in regards to your position via network instead of downloading same data directly from satellite thereby saving time. Both these can be used without checking network location in settings so to recap if your network location is unchecked you are still using agps as long as you have network connection (data connection that is).and samsungs system for agps being better than others cause it downloads data for while week as opposed to others downloading data everyone gps is turned on. Third level is network triangulation via cell towers that gets you that instant lock at the cost of accuracy useful mainly to let apps get your general location without having to engage real gps thereby saving power as well as give maps a chance to start calculating route while gps is still getting lock therefore appearing to operate faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL... Lets put things in perspective :
1) Wich car navigation software do you use
2) when you UNcheck wireless networks =a-gps(in location and security) and you CHECk "use GPS satellites = build-in gps receiver and then you go outside, you start your car navigation software in you gs( taking into consideration that you have the righ map installed) how long does it take to get a fix so you can start driving?
3) Do you know the difference between a cold and warm start? Why the heck some of you mention car lighters????
Please just answer me these 3 questions and meanwhile I will post some educative information

[Q] How to use GPS with no internet connection?

Hi, What do I need for my blackstone in order to use any (suggestions, which is better, would be a great help) GPS sowtware without internet connection. I am not an expert in this, but I know that GPS devices (like tom tom or similar) use satellite data to show coordinates. How can this be done on my touch hd? As only preinstalled program is google maps that require internet connection.
I don't have unlimited data plan, so this is extremely expensive for me, but I am a fan of geocatching, so I need GPS.
Please help me with description of how this GPS works and what soft should I use?
Thanks

There are lots of good Navigation/GPS Apps around that read standalone maps from your SDCard.
Take your pick.
Some info here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=566657

bethybabes69 said:
There are lots of good Navigation/GPS Apps around that read standalone maps from your SDCard.
Take your pick.
Some info here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=566657
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hi, thank for the info, but....
I installed TT7 with my region maps, but I still seem not to receive any GPS signal - my phone seems not to catch any satellite signal - is this a setting issue?

in tomtom7, just access the gps settings and set them to "internal gps receiver", then it should work immediately, given that in your very location you have gps coverage.

I've found that my Touch HD's GPS capabilities work great when I'm at home testing them, then fails to locate any satellites when I'm lost! lol
Not exactly true - but has got me before!
I would suggest that you try your GPS in various locations just to make sure that the building you live / work in, or the weather isn't blocking the signal that your phones GPS listens for...
I used TomTom for ages without issue, it can be copied directly from a memory card on a TomTom compatible device usually.
Recently my Dad bought iGo8 with the entire world maps installed, so I pinched that and run it straight off my storage card with just a few teething problems. This is the best GPS / SatNav on my phone so far...

+1 for iGO8
Best GPS software by far for me. This is the only and single reason why I haven't bought an Android phone yet.
If they would have created the same skinable thing for a HTC Desire etc the HD would be history.
If I were you.
1) disable a-gps, causes roaming costs and most gps application freak out on it (download advanced config tool and disable it that way)
Lock, no lock, lock, ... mostly caused by agps (assisted-gps). Assisted means that it also gets data from the cell-tower which abroad can cost you loads of money (and yes I had that once)
If you use HTC quick gps you will probably get a lock in seconds if you are outside so no need for assisted.
2) install the gps mod driver , this one 'thinks' ahead by calculating points that it gets from the GPS receiver. If you don't feel confident about this one skip it but read the thread and keep it in the back of your head.
3) buy iGO8 and install the gurjon skin which makes iGO look fantastic and makes it fully configurable the way you want it.
4) enjoy a fantastic GPS system