Database Users

Memory Problem

Hi,
I´m running trinity with the latest update from the HTC website, germanversion.
the sad thing is: i´m running out of memory, all pics, videos R stored on the card, if i use search 4 big files there is not even one single file above 64k in the main memory.
Storage: 58.8MB / free:1.07MB
Application Mem: 49.10MB / free: 22.99MB
there are just few applications installed but the MEM becomes less and less.
i´ve deleted messages, logfiles, temp files....
i´m out of ideas now an i donot have a useful way to check wich way my MEM is wasted.
any ideas?
many thanxxx

try tools like memaid or sktools - they have a cleanup feature.

Many thanxxx
SKtools did a great job, downloaded the trial on my PC, sent the cab to my P3600 via webmail, saved it on my card, installed it, ran "Auto Clean!" and got an extra 12MB, didn´t check what files it deleted, the trial is limited to 6 entries per list, but the system is fast and useable again. Auto Clean! seems to work without limits in the trial. but i´ll buy it anyway. € 11 is worth it!
only error: the orange LED started flashing when the process was finished, but i had no message,......
the use of the resetbutten stopped the flashing LED aswell ;-)
thanxxx

Also when you are browsing on the Internet I have noticed that the memory is being reduced, every now and then go and clean history and downloaded pages and you will free up more memory.

steladamo said:
Also when you are browsing on the Internet I have noticed that the memory is being reduced, every now and then go and clean history and downloaded pages and you will free up more memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is due to the disk cache of the browsers. There are registry hacks to move these cache folders to memory card in order to save precious space on rom. Try search the forum or if you are in a hurry, use tools like sktools.

RAM/Memory Low Problems

For some reason, I don't see too many complaints about low memory issues - yet I have always had problems with my RAM.
I have almost all of my programs installed on my SD card to try reduce any of my memory usage - but if I run PIE, MSN Messenger, or try to play music, I almost always have low memory messages come up.
I usually have one program running in the background - Slide to Unlock - but as far as I know its not that memory intensive?
Any insight on how I can fix this?
Thanks!

Are you running an elf or an elfin? If your not sure.....go to start-->settings-->system-->device information-->hardware. What does your RAM size read? If its 64MB its an elf.....if it says 128MB its an elfin. Your saying you've installed all your applications on the storage card. How much free space do you have for program memory on your phone? Your phones needs free memory in order to run applications too. Perhaps its running low on that end? Two things you should do:
1. Move any extra files, photos, videos or anything else that you might have saved on the phone memory to the storage card. Use activesync. Its faster that way.
2. Clear out your browser history and temp files. This could most probably be your culprit as they take up space too...and you don't necessarily see this upfront. Goto Start-->Internet Explorer-->Menu-->Tools-->Options-->Memory Tab.

[email protected] said:
...
2. Clear out your browser history and temp files. This could most probably be your culprit as they take up space too...and you don't necessarily see this upfront. Goto Start-->Internet Explorer-->Menu-->Tools-->Options-->Memory Tab.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've been having "Insufficient memory" errors while trying to run SpB Backup, and have deleted all sorts of applications, but nothing seemed to free up enough memory. Then I tried your advice, and everything is working as it should!
Thanks!!

I have an elf - usually when I close all of my processes, except my stumble to unlock, I'll have approx. 15mb/47 free in my program memory. 10/28 of my storage space is free.
I've tried to clear all of my temp files... even made it so that all my temp files/PIE files are put on my storage card through SK tools, but still have the same issues.
As soon as I run my HTC music player with the one or two background apps, it almost always pops up with memory issues. Browsing with PIE is almost impossible for any period longer than 5 minutes.
I've tried it with several configurations and I always have the same results, even if I have no background processes - I still have the same issues.

Are you using a cooked ROM? Come to think of it, I never had many problems with the original shipped ROM. I was normally running S2U2, PocketMusic, Opera Mini and SpbMobileShell back then.
You mean to say you can't even run one application at a time without running out of RAM? Soft reset. And if you use SKTools like you say you do, try running Free Up RAM, select all options.
In your shoes I'd probably move everything I want to storage card, (you should want more than 10mb storage) try a hard reset and install my most used apps again. Oh, and what is your PagePool size? Try here to find out about that. It should be 4mb.

Your primary problem is indeed the fact that you are running out of space on your phone. 15mb for program memory especially on heavy usage is quite insufficient. Especially if your going to be multi tasking and running several applications at once. I would move ALL my installed programs and anything else I may be able to get my hands on, to the storage card. Try to squeeze out atleast 25-30mb out of your program memory. This should give your phone some more breathing space.

This might be to use of you to try it out.
http://www.oxios.com/memory/

hi
I had the same problem before but now my touch runs fine now & haven't got any issues till now. Use advanced task manager and pocket mechanic. These application will keep ur pocketpc in good shape.

Very good, Thanks.

Storage Memory is Critically Low Popup Message

I am receiving the current message on my hd2 and would like to know how i can repair the problem as it keeps popping up on the screen all the time
'Storage memory is critically low. If the storage memory is not increased, other programs may not be able to start. Use File Explorer to delete files that are no longer needed or move some files to a storage card'
Any advice please?

Simple advice- you've got too much installed or saved to internal memory rather than the storage card.
Common culprits are browser caches for PIE and Opera, the HTC Album cache, media files like videos, music and pictures etc.
Use File Explorer to look in all the sub folders of My Documents as a starting point. Try moving all the big files over the the storage card.
Download Treeview from Microsoft Marketplace- it's free and can show you where all the storage memory is going.

should i do this through the phone direct or the pc?

khush10 said:
should i do this through the phone direct or the pc?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can do either- as long as you connect using ActiveSync rather than Disk Drive mode.
Using the PC is probably a slightly easier experience as Windows Explorer is more informative than the mobile version!

NeilM said:
Download Treeview from Microsoft Marketplace- it's free and can show you where all the storage memory is going.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no such app

i cannot get marketplace to work, it says that theres no data connection detected, but its on and my wi-fi is on too?
So i keep on retrying but still no joy!

...Read the post
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=600578
...I use a program for clean memory: SKTOOLS and it works ok
...there are other programs like cleanram...but i haven´t experience with them
...good luck

to be honest, i did not think i will have to go through all this, i thought that the phone would have been more simple to use rather than the link suggested, install this and edit that, i would have thought that the phone would already be setup correctly, instead my phone has become another job itself!

khush10 said:
to be honest, i did not think i will have to go through all this, i thought that the phone would have been more simple to use rather than the link suggested, install this and edit that, i would have thought that the phone would already be setup correctly, instead my phone has become another job itself!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Welcome to the world of Windows Mobile

khush10 said:
to be honest, i did not think i will have to go through all this, i thought that the phone would have been more simple to use rather than the link suggested, install this and edit that, i would have thought that the phone would already be setup correctly, instead my phone has become another job itself!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't have to do all that. It works great out of the box as well. Those are just possibilities, to customize it and tweak it.
Uninstall everything you have installed on your phone and reinstall it to the storage card. Always install applications to the storage card. That should fix your 'problem'.
Additionally, open the File Explorer, go to \Windows and delete the folder YouTube. That gives you additional free space but the folder comes back when you watch YouTube videos, so you can do this from time to time.

can i drag and drop my applications folder into the storage card via the pc?

Yes, but then the links in the start menu won't work anymore. Think of what happens when you move the Program Files folder on your PC. It's the same here.

can someone give me a step by step guide for doing this task please.

Go to Settings, Manage Applications, Uninstall Applications. There, uninstall all the applications you have installed to teh main memory.
Then reinstall them, this time to the storage card.
And delete the YouTube cache from time to time.

When we're speaking of free storage memory, how much memory do you all have free?
Mine is around 20 mb, is it to small?
Beacuse when i watched a video on youtube i got the same message as in the first post.

freyberry said:
Go to Settings, Manage Applications, Uninstall Applications. There, uninstall all the applications you have installed to teh main memory.
Then reinstall them, this time to the storage card.
And delete the YouTube cache from time to time.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
All i have in the remove programs section is 'MarketPlace' and no other applications?

khush10 said:
All i have in the remove programs section is 'MarketPlace' and no other applications?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As I suggested in the earlier post, this is nothing to do with installed programs- most of those are pretty small and are unlikely to be grabbing the majority of your memory.
It is most likely that you have allowed some large files to be stored in the main memory. By default the phone DOES store most big user files like photos and videos on a storage card, but perhaps that has been altered somewhere?
You need to use a file finding utility to sort this- if Treesize is not available in your locality via Marketplace (or you can't access Marketplace) then you can try Spacefinder, a tiny, free program that will sort your files and folders in order of size, giving a hint as to where the memory may have gone. You can also download Treesize Mobile direct from Jam Software
Stuff like CleanRAM, SKTools etc is OK for clearing RAM but has no effect on Storage Memory apart from clearing some caches, though this can help a lot.
One other tip- as has been suggested, try and install programs onto a storage card, but not if they are system programs like Today plug-ins or keyboards etc. These must go into device memory otherwise you may get some startup errors.

This baffles me. I have just got an HD2 to replace my HD - I started to put exactly the same programs onto the HD2 as I had previously installed on my HD (I install all programs on the device). I got the low memory warning long before I put all the programmes on - on a brand new device with no internet browsing/video/music on device itself.
My HD has more memory than my HD2 - how is that possible?
None of these explanations seem to explain how this happens on my HD2 but not my old HD. I have NEVER had a low memory warning on my HD despite having used it for over a year and having installed more on it than I have managed on the HD2.

I have recently found the pre-installed Google Maps created a cache folder in device memory and pumped it up to 25 Megs. Deleted it of course.

blackrat62 said:
This baffles me. I have just got an HD2 to replace my HD - I started to put exactly the same programs onto the HD2 as I had previously installed on my HD (I install all programs on the device). I got the low memory warning long before I put all the programmes on - on a brand new device with no internet browsing/video/music on device itself.
My HD has more memory than my HD2 - how is that possible?
None of these explanations seem to explain how this happens on my HD2 but not my old HD. I have NEVER had a low memory warning on my HD despite having used it for over a year and having installed more on it than I have managed on the HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The HD2 has more memory (ROM) but a huge chunk (150MB) is taken up by all the HTC Sense gubbins, leaving a relatively smaller amount free to the user. Ultra light cooked ROMs give about 150MB more ROM, and light ROMs about 100MB more than the default ROM.
It also seems that a lot of caching is going on- Album, Googlemaps, Browsers etc eating up ROM.

phone in low internal memory

OK guys..pardon my stupidity..i have read up on similar thread with similar situation but the thing is i do not know what is the best way to do it..i install the cleartemp but it's not working...i deleted my IE/Opera cache but i am still running on low memory..i wonder what is the best and simplest way to do it?other then hard reset thou...this phone is new to me and it's running on low memory already..my apps are install in my SD so i guess that wasn't an issue..SO! how do i free my phone memory?basically i use my phone to surf net..using IE..other then that would be youtube..need help!

yohliying said:
OK guys..pardon my stupidity..i have read up on similar thread with similar situation but the thing is i do not know what is the best way to do it..i install the cleartemp but it's not working...i deleted my IE/Opera cache but i am still running on low memory..i wonder what is the best and simplest way to do it?other then hard reset thou...this phone is new to me and it's running on low memory already..my apps are install in my SD so i guess that wasn't an issue..SO! how do i free my phone memory?basically i use my phone to surf net..using IE..other then that would be youtube..need help!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
how 'low' is 'low memory'?

rp-x1 said:
how 'low' is 'low memory'?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And which memory because you are talking about installing apps when that has nothing directly to do with operating memory.
Installing on mem card doesn't "save" anything in this regard.

I'm also low on Storage-mem on the phone - even though I install programs on the memorycard whenever possible (and of course put my pictures, music and videos on the mem-card as well!).
I have 177mb free Program-memory on the phone but only 9.3mb storage-mem.
This makes programs such as the YouTube-app very unhappy as it seems to only be able to cache to internal storage-memory :-(
On older versions of WM you could change how the phone used it's internal memory with a slider in settings.
The phone also seemed to adjust this automatically as it became necessary.
Now however it seems that this possibility is gone (both manual and automatic adjustment).
I hope it is only my ignorance speaking so here's hoping that someone has a solution to this problem (fingers crossed)

trondkk said:
I'm also low on Storage-mem on the phone - even though I install programs on the memorycard whenever possible (and of course put my pictures, music and videos on the mem-card as well!).
I have 177mb free Program-memory on the phone but only 9.3mb storage-mem.
This makes programs such as the YouTube-app very unhappy as it seems to only be able to cache to internal storage-memory :-(
On older versions of WM you could change how the phone used it's internal memory with a slider in settings.
The phone also seemed to adjust this automatically as it became necessary.
Now however it seems that this possibility is gone (both manual and automatic adjustment).
I hope it is only my ignorance speaking so here's hoping that someone has a solution to this problem (fingers crossed)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you have used up storage mem then that's it but what have you installed to use it.
Mine shows 152Mb storage and 252Mb program memory free. 27 apps installed and everything running fine.

Do you install a lot of application from the Marketplace? If so, this defaults to install on internal memory

I have exactly the same issue, and it's very frustrating. Pretty crazy really as I can't use the phone for anything that uses device storage. No youtube, no media busy web pages and some apps refuse to run smoothly, or at all.
Like you, I'm always having to delete Opera & IE's cache files just to keep the phone functioning! I've also deleted all my Co-Pilot files on the card and the device - this helped a little and gave me another 5 or 6 MB of device space.
With all cache's cleared and around 30 programs installed (all on the card) I now only have 7.8MB of free device storage, which disappears within a few minutes when using Opera.
Out of the 336MB of program storage I have filled 153MB with 182MB free - I wish I could control how much memory is allocated to the program memory and device memory.

Very strange...I have any large applications like games, copliot etc installed on my SD card, only small apps on my internal memory...
Total storage: 200.15MB
Used storage: 119.99MB
Free storage: 80.16MB
Total program: 336.93MB
Used program: 170.54MB
Free profram: 166.89MB

i have a 16 meg Ram Disk (see the 'ram disk' thread ) and my system temp folders and caches, plus opera cache have been moved to it. Opera now runs really fast, and the cache is no longer taking up the storage memory, plus when you soft reset it clears out the cache too.

chronicle said:
I have exactly the same issue, and it's very frustrating. Pretty crazy really as I can't use the phone for anything that uses device storage. No youtube, no media busy web pages and some apps refuse to run smoothly, or at all.
Like you, I'm always having to delete Opera & IE's cache files just to keep the phone functioning! I've also deleted all my Co-Pilot files on the card and the device - this helped a little and gave me another 5 or 6 MB of device space.
With all cache's cleared and around 30 programs installed (all on the card) I now only have 7.8MB of free device storage, which disappears within a few minutes when using Opera.
Out of the 336MB of program storage I have filled 153MB with 182MB free - I wish I could control how much memory is allocated to the program memory and device memory.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
.
Wow thats so confusing!
Just tell us
Storage memory (where the apps are installed)
Program memory (where the apps and OS run)
You should have plenty of mem to install ail your apps and run them without a problem.
Try installing them all to phone because you have enough mem

pa49 said:
.
Wow thats so confusing!
Just tell us
Storage memory (where the apps are installed)
Program memory (where the apps and OS run)
You should have plenty of mem to install ail your apps and run them without a problem.
Try installing them all to phone because you have enough mem
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have since day 1 installed all my programs to the memory card apart from a couple of programs and hotfixes which I though would be smarter if I installed to the device - but these are tiny. I have also set my marketplace to default to the memory card and removed all co-pilot files and set all podcasts to the microSD too.
Total Storage: 200.27
Used Storage: 191.48
Free Storage: 8.79 (whohooo, that's much bigger than normal!)
Total Program: 336.93
Used Program: 143.89
Free Program: 192.93
SD Card: Over 2GB's free
I really have no idea what's using all my internal storage.

Yep - that's about the same for me.
Only a few apps are installed directly on the phone (the ones that install without letting the user decide where they want them) so what's hogging my phone-storage is beyond me...
But I really don't need close to 200 mb of program-memory, is there really no way to use some of this memory for storage - as was possible with earlier versions of WM?

Have you tried importing to PC, such as pictures and other things, using Windows Mobile Centre?

chronicle said:
I have since day 1 installed all my programs to the memory card apart from a couple of programs and hotfixes which I though would be smarter if I installed to the device - but these are tiny. I have also set my marketplace to default to the memory card and removed all co-pilot files and set all podcasts to the microSD too.
Total Storage: 200.27
Used Storage: 191.48
Free Storage: 8.79 (whohooo, that's much bigger than normal!)
Total Program: 336.93
Used Program: 143.89
Free Program: 192.93
SD Card: Over 2GB's free
I really have no idea what's using all my internal storage.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but why? Storage mem is there for, well, storage. So why not use it?

pa49 said:
Yes but why? Storage mem is there for, well, storage. So why not use it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can't help but think that you've missed the point - when the storage memory is full the phone ceases to function properly!
It uses this area of storage for the cache files for the browser and for applications such as you tube. When I start the youtube app, if it opens at all, it will say 'Critically low on system memory...etc' and shut down after playing a few seconds. If I have many tabs open in opera the same memory problem occurs.
The 'Device Storage' partition is full (with what I don't know) whilst the 'Device Program' partition is almost empty. We have no control over what sizes those partitions are. Maybe i've got it all wrong but either way it's really limiting the usefulness of the phone.

trondkk said:
But I really don't need close to 200 mb of program-memory, is there really no way to use some of this memory for storage - as was possible with earlier versions of WM?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yes there is. as I mentioned in post 9, I use a ram disk for my temp files and cache. lives in program memory but shows up as a (fast) memory card.
search for the ram disk thread.
also, as regards figuring out what is taking up all the space, use a file manager (don't forget to unhide all files) and search for everything over....say....1 meg.

chronicle said:
I can't help but think that you've missed the point - when the storage memory is full the phone ceases to function properly!
It uses this area of storage for the cache files for the browser and for applications such as you tube. When I start the youtube app, if it opens at all, it will say 'Critically low on system memory...etc' and shut down after playing a few seconds. If I have many tabs open in opera the same memory problem occurs.
The 'Device Storage' partition is full (with what I don't know) whilst the 'Device Program' partition is almost empty. We have no control over what sizes those partitions are. Maybe i've got it all wrong but either way it's really limiting the usefulness of the phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No I haven't missed the point, I just don't get the problem and I'm trying to figure out why not?
And that would help you. Something is causing certain phones to behave this way. I use youtube and opera and never have to clear out anything.
I currently have 36 apps showing on my start menu screen and memory is showing as Storage 152.13 Mb free and program 313.80 Mb free.
I run Titanium (not manilla UI) and I have LeoLite ROM installed.
Something in that setup is causing the phone to respond differently!

Duplicate post

u can do these things
1. instal darkcab catcher----on this website...moves all the programs to external storage
2. moves ur htc album cache and opera cache to external storage

hash1234 said:
u can do these things
1. instal darkcab catcher----on this website...moves all the programs to external storage
2. moves ur htc album cache and opera cache to external storage
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I might be a little bit stupid, but on what website can I find darkcab catcher?

Very little Device Memory HD2. (What? Already!!!)

I've had my HD2 for about a week now. I've installed maybe 3 or 4 apps directly to the device (not to SD Card). I'm now in the situation of not being able to d/l any videos etc. due to having insufficient memory! I can't believe it!!!
Device total storage stands at 200.40MB
Used storage= 189.02MB
Free storage= 11.38MB
However below this info my phone is showing ''Free program storage'' as being 178.38MB. While my SD card is showing Free Memory being at 1453.95MB.
Would the solution be to transfer everything to SD card and only install to the SD card in future?

Yep I would, saves the phones internal memory

I install any non-system apps to the card, anything that needs access to the system files goes on my phone

Found this article on a blog:
Just go on google and search "windows mobile marketplace:choose where to install"
Click the 3rd one down-DarkBlog
(Apologies for not placing a direct link, I'm a new member, so It won't allow me to put outside links right now, sorry for the inconvenience)
It might help you a little?

Gonna have a look at that, looks good
LINK:
http://blog.idlezone.org/post/2010/01/11/Windows-Mobile-MarketPlace-:-choose-where-to-install

GadgetTechPlus said:
Found this article on a blog:
Just go on google and search "windows mobile marketplace:choose where to install"
Click the 3rd one down-DarkBlog
(Apologies for not placing a direct link, I'm a new member, so It won't allow me to put outside links right now, sorry for the inconvenience)
It might help you a little?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you. That's really helpful.

These reports of low memory are really starting to bug me.
It would appear that there is something going on that is not fully understand because there is no way that you should run out of phone storage memory with only 4 apps installed!
A serious in depth investigation is needed to unearth the cause.
I have 27 apps installed and I have 152Mb of storage memory left.
Could you tell us what ROM you are running?

Did you go to the task manager and see what is running and try ending the tasks? If you don't kill programs in there they will eat up your system memory... Specially if you are downloading a bunch of porn... Opera is probably using up a bunch.

crisisinthecity said:
Did you go to the task manager and see what is running and try ending the tasks? If you don't kill programs in there they will eat up your system memory... Specially if you are downloading a bunch of porn... Opera is probably using up a bunch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thats not the memory the OP was talking about. Unless I've got it all wrong! Or you have!
I think you are referring to Program memory. The OP was talking about Storage memory and how something was using it up.
This is all very strange.

Things you should definitely look at
1. Where are your camera pictures and camcorder videos stored? ---> if you select device and not storage on the camera app or camcorder app settings, then u are my friend putting pictures and videos you've taken to the sdcard...
solutions: go to ur camera app settings and look at where u are storing the pictures...
or go to ur file explorer, go to ur device's memory and check if they are there...
if they are there, then copy and paste them to ur sd card...
2. set ur outlook, yahoo e-mail and stuff to be stored in sd card, not device's memory...
3. idk what else you have in there to have that very little memory left...

Oh I missed that... My phone has 686.12 Total Storage, 190.64 used, 495.48 free. I have installed all of the apps on the Storage card though. If his says that the total storage is 200 or whatever, that sounds like the problem... Should be like a gb of total device memory between storage and programs...

It seems that Opera 9 saves downloads to a folder on the phones 'device memory', but it doesn't always delete them when you tell opera to do so in the downloads menu tab.
It saves them too: \My Device\Windows\opera9\profile\download
When I deleated most of the files there it released over 110 MB of space in the device storage.
I wonder where other programs save similar files?
Sam.

Have a look here http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=583638 for tips on freeing some space. The HTC Album cache is my biggest storage hog. Even then, like you, I have just a few programs installed to my internal store and hardly any memory left. The UK version has less storage than the USA HD2 which makes matters worse.

maybe for the euro hd2, cleartemp could help. It can help find those caches and delete them regularly.
I have the tmous version and flash all the time so I don't have that problem.
Also look for the youtube cache. I've heard it can get pretty big if you look at a lot of youtube vids.
edit: go find cleartemp. There are loads of stuff it can clear for you.
I found 10mb under thumbs.db alone.
Not to mention a few mb for google maps and for opera cache each.
you can also add custom folders to be cleaned as well. I haven't looked too much into it, but maybe I should.
Just remember that caches help your phone run faster, so don't erase them unless you need the memory.

This thread has good suggestions. But most are usual recommendations that will help but perhaps not resolve the issue completely (well a couple of posts do mention temp issues). I had a similar experience recently.
A couple of facts:
1. I install all my apps into the main memory. Never had issues. Opera, IE cache, temps all there by default.
2. I download and save on SD. Music, films, pictures, documents, Android are all there.
3. Still I have plenty of room for storage.
And then I suddenly had that warning!
The cause was temp made by the default ZIP utility that used up almost all my storage space. That utility works fine until I wanted to uncompress 160 mb zip from SD into another SD folder. It started uncompressing, used all storage temp space, gave me error, and closed. It didn't clean the temp though!
I cleaned a bit manually and then installed SK tools that cleaned my device properly and everything is fine now. It is very simple issue and similar to running out of disk space on a PC.
Bottom line: it is unlikely that usual apps use so much storage. I bet on downloads and big user files left in storage and finally huge temp files as leftovers of unsuccessful uncompressing for example.