Database Users

So what's next after the Universal?

Hi,
Does anyone have any idea what the next "best" HTC device to replace the Universal will be? Or from any other manufacturer for that matter...
Better Battery?
Faster CPU?
etc etc
Cheers,

I've been wondering this myself. I'm quite taken by the Loox T830, unfortunately it's only got a 240x240 screen, but that might be sufficient if the actual device is small enough. Would make a refreshing change from the bulk of my JasJar.
I think we'll be waiting a pretty long time for something that truly outdoes the JasJar on all fronts...

Maybe a fast Universal with no memory leaks and more storage space...

don't hold back ssarl, say what you think lol! but I have to agree, shame they don't make a linux or osx based one eh!

Maybe HTC Trinity??
No idea, how the specs of this device are ...

I love my Exec, but wish the battery was of a higher capacity.
My next device will be the same shape hopefully (love the twisting faux-notebook clamshell design) but a tad smaller - theres wasted space around the screen I could live without!
It'll continue to take a full SD card, nothing less, it'll hopefully have a 4 to 8Gb hard drive, it'll have 3G AND quad band, it'll be pre-loaded with the Bluetooth Stereo and Bluetooth Remote Control Profiles, it'll have Opera in ROM (I can dream!), it'll come with the MS Voice Command software in ROM too, and I'll get it for less than £130 on contract at xmas, just like my Exec.
Oh and the MSN Messenger will use the front facing cam too as a webcam.
Make it happen MS/HTC/O2. And by the 20th of December this year pls. Daddy needs a new toy this christmas.
EDIT: Yeah, GPS too, latest SIRF chipset please - how could I forget that?

What he said, but with built in GPS.
Oh, and a microwave would benice too

Pick the Advance TC M.A.G.I.C. From my take, this is the best device possible to upgrade to:
http://www.advancetc.com/

That M.A.G.I.C. does look pretty good, but after the Uni, I'll be going for something a little smaller.
Not sure if they'll ever see the light of day, but did anyone see the devices from a new Chinese OEM that appeared on engadgetmobile.com yesterday? They look fairly promising, WM5, WCDMA, WiFi, GPS, USB OTG, 512Mb RAM & ROM, 2Mpx Camera, etc, etc.
They'll probably take about a year to come out in China, let alone anywhere else (and that's assuming it isn't vapourware from the start), but they're the sort of specs that I'll be looking for when I upgrade.

I'd like a decent FM radio - I'd like to listen to Radio 4 on the way to work.

www.dualcor.com
I really like this one...
Windows XP Tablet Pc Edition and Windows Mobile 5 in one device.
40 GIG hard drive.
1 GIG ddr2 ram an 1 GIG NAND Flash Memory.
3 USB 2 ports etc etc
The only thing I mis is a hardware keyboard.
Rene

rene01 said:
www.dualcor.com
I really like this one...
Windows XP Tablet Pc Edition and Windows Mobile 5 in one device.
40 GIG hard drive.
1 GIG ddr2 ram an 1 GIG NAND Flash Memory.
3 USB 2 ports etc etc
The only thing I mis is a hardware keyboard.
Rene
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I like the widescreen 800x480 screen that the dualcor has... shame about the keyboard though. Since upgrading from an XDA II to EXEC i have come to realise the usefulness of a built-in keyboard.
being able to run xp is brilliant too... it would be nice to be able to run win xp based programs/games that you really need...

The dual cor is nice, but it would probably leave a huge burn mark on our pockets.

I do prefer Linux... But if something can run XP it can run Linux )
Hopefuly...
Cheers!
Chris

Suggest that you look at the Sharp Zaurus SL-C3200 if you want LINUX.
Similar size to the Universal including swivel screen & real VGA with 6gb hard disk as well as CF & SD slots, but no phone facilities. It can run a number of different LINUX distros.
I use my Zaurus alongside the Universal for the things that the Universal cant handle.
Mike

Mike,
Thanks
But there are some problems.
1st of all I need TomTom.
2nd I need phone I just can't imagine caring TWO devices all the time
Also, I do need email, web browser, keyboard etc
At this moment ONLY Universal seems to be doing the trick.
Thanks anyway!
Cheers!
Chris

Then it's quite clear: the M.A.G.I.C. is for you!!

raymondu999 said:
Then it's quite clear: the M.A.G.I.C. is for you!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except that does not have a VGA screen, is bigger than the Universal, and since it has 512mb of ram will have around an hours battery life...
Basically, I would'nt count on it. :roll:

Whell guys.... Im just waitting to put my hands on a SE p990....
This universal busness is starting to suck.... btooth is a major flaw.... the signal stinks compared to £30 mobile phones... wifi is also another disapointment with poor range.....and as for the battery wont even mention that..... I was willing to put up with its size since previous I had to carry both a pda and a phone separatelly but....
....This would be a very nice device for my daily buisness runnings withouth a doubt but unfortunatelly as it stands its only good in my opinion for enthusiastic people that like to have a good mess around with it.... as far as a buisness tool as it was intended or at least marketed its just a failure until such further development...
At least with sony on knows that it will be released singing and dancing and also that nice uiq system....
Ill buy a p990 and keep this one for a while still and see how things go before i blow my trompet any further :roll:
BR

hum maybe about 2gb storage 128ram faster access time on data, wifi that lets u log on with out the need for ssid enabled @ the router , full size vids in media player "tcptp" ect, ect, :evil: not fan of adding stuff that was in xda ii,(I think but all my vids were low res similar size to screen) ow maybe composite video out, audio out is just gr8 don’t go backward’s 3.5 jack is gr8 , hum maybe similar keyboard that was on Psion 5 but it's not too bad as it is. A descent bt stack & mapping of network resources like printers, hard drives. USB port that hosts & maybe have an accessory power pack on cable to run hi power devices for longer times. 5mp camera and msn messenger that supports webcam & bt head set for chat & possibly file transfer.
:lol: we all can dream, would be nice to watch vids like I used to on my xdaii but it just is not fast enough running @ 640 * 480 and all my old vids are now too small in media player and not really wanting to add more space taking software
:lol: ow well defiantly went over board but would be nice though

HP IPAQ 310 Hacking

I just picked up an HP IPAQ 310 GPS device based on Windows CE 5.0. As far as standalone GPS devices go this one is very highly spec'ed:
http://www.amazon.com/310-Bluetooth-4-3-Inch-Widescreen-Navigator/dp/B000VRYLU2
600Mhz DualCore Centrality Titan Platform with on-chip GPS
300Mhz DSP
128MB RAM
2GB Flash
4.3" 800x480 LCD display
Bluetooth 2.0+EDR
USB 2.0
Windows.CE 5.0
It currently runs a variant of IGO 2008 navigation program and has some onboard games from PDAMill.
This is my first Window.CE project. Does anyone know where I can get the appopriate BSPs etc.. to allow me to build a bootable/working CE Image from Platform Builder 5 or 6 with full driver support?
My dream is to put a Microsoft Automotive software stack on this see how close I can get to a converged device like the Microsoft/Ford Sync. It will also be a learning experience.
In particular my end goal is to enable the following scenarios:
Voice recognition
Bluetooth DUN/PAN
Bluetooth Handsfree and voice dialing
Information Services (via web services interface to online services from Google & Microsoft). Think of movie times/locations, traffic, gas prices,address/phone/poi lookup etc..
Full fidelity video/audio player
Launch native and emulated games
Plug-in framework to extend the features
Navigation

The spec of the HP 310 Travel Companion is very impressive and I like the idea of it being a multi-purpose device. The 4.3 inch display is large enough for use as a GPS as well as watching videos. Seriously I wouldn't need GPS function every day so it is great be able to use it for other purposes. I wish one day it would be able to receive free digital TV signal like those from DVB-T or DVB-H. That would make it a truly Travel Companion.

Wow you really are dreaming if you think you can get a BSP for this device.
Or for any device for that matter.
These are never released and I never even heard of one being leaked! Just like any other proprietary code BSPs are highly guarded.
What you are trying to do is pretty ambitious, but if you want to rebuild OS for something by your self you better get a Linux device.
Sorry.

levenum said:
Wow you really are dreaming if you think you can get a BSP for this device.
Or for any device for that matter.
These are never released and I never even heard of one being leaked! Just like any other proprietary code BSPs are highly guarded.
What you are trying to do is pretty ambitious, but if you want to rebuild OS for something by your self you better get a Linux device.
Sorry.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okay. Does anyone know much about the Microsoft Sync / Microsoft Automative software stack for Windows CE?

Regarding Windows Automotive:
You must be dreaming if you think you can source an Windows Automotive (or is it Microsoft Auto now?) OEM Adaptation Kit to do this!
As I understand, you need to be a huge OEM/ODM or car manufacturer like Ford and sign an NDA to even get any kind of access to it.
Considering its difficult enough to even source a Windows Mobile kit, I'd imagine its even harder to get Windows Automotive considering the circumstances...
However, there may be another way to source the Windows Automotive OS components besides obtaining an official kit...
Perhaps if there are some firmware updates for one of the Windows Automotive devices from Fiat, Ford, Clarion, etc. you can dump the ROM image and extract the files. Now, even if you do that you might still need to fix the relocations of every dll file...but it still might work on your HP after all that. I'd imagine you would also need to manually figure out the skin format of the Windows Automotive apps since you don't have the actual desktop tools to generate them...
I doubt you would really even need to source a BSP and build an image once you get this far. Chances are the apps you extract will run just fine from an SD card or the internal flash disk of your device if configured properly.

Off topic...
I managed to brick one of these today within the first hour. Just testing out Flux Challenge when it threw up a Please Wait screen. Soft-reset and now it sticks at the HP splash screen; had to get it sent back. Thank goodness I was only testing it.
Given this plus its molasses-slow performance, I think I'd choose something else if I really wanted to do any sort of modding...

Hi i have a 314 UK Version and wants to flash it with the german version.
Has anybody tried it ?

modellbobby said:
Hi i have a 314 UK Version and wants to flash it with the german version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where did you get the ROM ?

some sort of firmware update is on the HP FTP server (also includes newer maps)
Use the engineering mode to dump and restore the ROM.

have an Ipaq 310 running igo8 and finean4, like to get garmin but seems to have a resolution problem, anyboby can help plz"
[8/23/08 21:36:29 67512KB 4.20.50wp]
GFX_buf_alloc: Invalid area (-20048 480)
[8/23/08 21:36:29 67508KB 4.20.50wp]
Failure 87 allocating bitmap of size (-20048,480) 16 bpp (0)
[8/23/08 21:36:29 67448KB 4.20.50wp]
Read Access violation at data address 0xFFFFFFFC.
Program address 0x00058080 in background thread NULL (CSubAppThread::Run Garmin Mobile XT)
[8/23/08 21:36:30 67440KB 4.20.50wp]
CALL STACK:
0x18156EC0
0x182B7104
0x029FC9C4
0x02A03D24
0x93C0A090
0x93C33EA8
0x93C0DEB4
0x93C09FA8
0x18058080
0x18059900
0x180D18B8
0x180D1CEC
0x182B71E0
0x182B7010
0x182B6C54
0x029DDF04

klingklang01 said:
have an Ipaq 310 running igo8 and finean4, like to get garmin but seems to have a resolution problem, anyboby can help plz"
[8/23/08 21:36:29 67512KB 4.20.50wp]
GFX_buf_alloc: Invalid area (-20048 480)
[8/23/08 21:36:29 67508KB 4.20.50wp]
Failure 87 allocating bitmap of size (-20048,480) 16 bpp (0)
[8/23/08 21:36:29 67448KB 4.20.50wp]
Read Access violation at data address 0xFFFFFFFC.
Program address 0x00058080 in background thread NULL (CSubAppThread::Run Garmin Mobile XT)
[8/23/08 21:36:30 67440KB 4.20.50wp]
CALL STACK:
0x18156EC0
0x182B7104
0x029FC9C4
0x02A03D24
0x93C0A090
0x93C33EA8
0x93C0DEB4
0x93C09FA8
0x18058080
0x18059900
0x180D18B8
0x180D1CEC
0x182B71E0
0x182B7010
0x182B6C54
0x029DDF04
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is seem to be the resolution problem of our GPS... I'm having the same issue also. We need to find some doc to change the resolution... I'm still searching for the solution, any1 know how to cange it???
Regards,
Jeff

iPAQ 3xx Series
This is an old post but I thought I'd confirm a couple things for the record, should anybody be looking into this kind of info in future although the device is technically EOL.
40th Floor said:
As far as I know, this iPAQ is the only device to have ever even used the (exact) processor it's using.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes this is the only iPAQ with a dual core processor for that matter.
40th Floor said:
And funny? Funny is that when it's on a charger (any external power at all) it runs at half speed (300 MHz) but when completely on battery it runs at 600 MHz.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The original USB 2.0 spec called for no more than 500ma to be pumped through the USB line. Around the time WM5 was being rolled out, HP had to wrestle with the USB klan to convince them that wasn't enough to run a device and charge it. HP was making better use of the standard by doing more with it than the authorities thought was needed. They eventually backed off and HP up through the time I'm writing this ships an AC adapter with each device that has a mini or micro USB connector; obviouisly needed since the 22-pin connector died with the 6900 (Moose) device. The adapters provide up to 1000ma of juice.
Now consider this: Prior to dropping the 22-pin connector HP shipped 2amp chargers which provided enough juice to run the device and charge the battery at the same time. The 22-pin standard came out with the h3800 Series which ran a 400MHz ARM single core and didn't have fancy stuff like WiFi built in, and only had a standard QVGA (320x240) screen.
So how could a device with a GPS, such a larger screen, and a dual core 600MHz CPU be expected to even operate with a 1amp charger, let alone charge the battery?
Playing with the OS - Differences between WinCE platforms
For those who would like to play with the OS, understand this device runs Windows Mobile 5 for devices and NOT the Pocket PC OS. Pocket PC was a platform, just like SmartPhone was a platform. Although Microsoft changes the names to confuse the innocent, we're still talking about a few significant differences.
Consider Pocket PC (or WinMo or WinMo classic depending on the wind and Microsoft's mood), a superset of WinCE that adds a few other things to the core WinCE 5 platform. Search the web for posts by people who have managed to get PocketPC apps to run on their Handheld PC (HPC) such as the MobilePro 900c. The same kind of things would apply to the iPAQ 300. The differences are not all that significant if you know which DLLs need to be added.
In short, the iPAQ 300 Series is closer to a HPC than PocketPC OS-wise. The good news is, this version of Platform Builder can be purchased, whereas the one for WinMo is strictly guarded by Microsoft and released only to OEMs like HP and Dell.
The hardest thing you'll run across is that the digitizer drivers were not optimized for fine work, just for finger use. When you bypass the NavNGo "OS" to run the underlying WinCE OS and try to use a soft keyboard, for example, you'll see the jitter I'm talking about.
The iPAQ 300 Series could have been more but it was designed to compete with other GPS devices and that's really all. The hardware was really pretty great, but the device shipped with significant bugs that were addressed post-release.
If you want a PocketPC that also has GPS, the h5900 Series was a better choice. Not dual core CPU though

Anyone still running this fine device?
I've got mine running Igo8.3, works pretty good.
I'd be interested to hear if anyone is running Primo on it.
Also, anyone know where to get a TMC antenna for this unit?
Cheers

i still have a working one
unfortunately i think it have gone into battery shutdown to little charge in the battery for an extended period of time,
it will however come to life if i plug it into the car
i was thinking tonight it would be cool to hack droid onto it

GPS activation

Hello !
I will get my shift this week.
I have read, that there is a GPS integrated.
Does anybody know how I can activate it within WM so that I will be able to run TOMTOM ?
Here are the specs : ( german )
in the 3rd line you can read GPS
Betriebssystem: Windows Vista® Business, Deutsch
Prozessor: Intel® Stealey 800MHz + 945GMS + ICH7U; Qualcomm® MSM 7200, 400MHz
GPS
Fingerabdrucksensor
Speicher: ROM: 128 MB for SnapVUE RAM: 1GB DDR2 microDIMM RAM for Vista + 64 MB for SnapVUE?
Hard Disk: 1.8-inch 40 GB or 60 GB hard disk (manufacturer`s option)
SD Speicherkarte (SD 2.0 kompatibel)
Größe: 207 mm (L) x 129 mm (W) x 25 mm (T)
Gewicht: 800g mit Akku
QWERTZ Tastatur
Fortschrittliche Touchscreen Technologie:
7" TFT-LCD mit Hintergrundbeleuchtung und TouchFLO Bedienung
800 x 480 Bildpunkte
Kommunikation:
HSDPA/UMTS: Tri-band 850, 1900, 2100 MHz
GSM/GPRS/EDGE: Quad-band 850, 900, 1800, 1900 MHz
SIM Kard Slot
Kamera: VGA Kamera für WEB / Videotelefonie
Audio:
Microfone / Receiver
Lautsprecher für die Handsfree-Unterstützung
Verbindungen und Anschlüsse:
Bluetooth® 2.0
Wi-Fi: IEEE 802.11 b/g
HTC ExtUSB (11-Pin mini-USB und Audiokarte in einem)
Stromversorgung:
Wiederaufladbares und auswechselbares Lithium-Ion Polymer Akku
Kapazität: 2700 mAh
AC Adapter
AC Eingangsspannung: 90 ~ 265V AC, 47/63Hz
DC Ausgangsspannung: 12Vdc, 3A

I think you may be a little disappointed with the GPS side of things? I don't think people have had much headway with restrictions the shift currently offers. First the integrated GPS is somewhat of an urban myth? It could be accessible, but I've not seen a 100% success story yet. Second if integrated GPS was present, you need to open up SnapVu to full WM6, then I understand that it does not currently have much space to put software? Thirdly If you managed to fit it on and can not access GPS then you also can not access either the bluetooth or USB through the SnapVu side. It does sound a little grim and I may be wrong? But that being said I love my Shift!!! and I'm sure before long the XDA Developer GOD's will sort out all of these downsides.

shift FAQ
Q: Does the Shift have a GPS module ?
A: Yes the shift have a build in GPS chip, but since we don't have any drivers for it yet, we are not sure if antenna etc. are there. (on the prototype units it was working so there is a good chance it will work on production models to)
NOTE: After i opened up my shift i can confirm the GPS antenna is there !!

here is the test of SHIFT with QSTARZ GPS
http://www.umpcfever.com/news/?postid=705
I think we can use the external GPS instead till the enabling of the internal one!

In the video, he is using Vista side - not SnapVu side! I don't think you are able to access either the USB or bluetooth on the Snapvu side.

kitkat_dave said:
In the video, he is using Vista side - not SnapVu side! I don't think you are able to access either the USB or bluetooth on the Snapvu side.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
that should all be changing very soon. gps should be pretty easy to enable since it was in the test versions.

There is no special GPS chipset in the Shift - GPS functionality is just one of the many functions provided by the Qualcom MSM7200 - yeah, basically the chip that powers the WM part of the shift, including GSM/3G Radio. By the way: SnapVUE with the WindowsMobile-Like stuff is just a cheap side product of using the MSM7200: The processor is already there... even graphics and sound is embedded in the MSM7200 - in fact, HTC just needed to add some cheap ram, some cheap flash, and some glue logic (imagine a simble console switch that switches the screen, keyboard and touchscreen between Vista and SnapVue).
Regarding GPS, the "problem" is: The technology (drivers) for GPS are there - in the WindowsMobile/SnapVUE-Part (propably not implemented in the final ROM version, but at least, HTC has it available). BUT: SnapVue is not sold as WindowsMobile, but as SnapVue, without any support for 3rd party applications - it would not make sense to provide GPS within WindowsMobile/SnapVue (especially as there is no connection to the SD slot... yeah, stop dreaming, there is really no way to access SD or the HardDisk from SnapVue).
So, why is the GPS antenna there?? Well, there IS an potential option to use the GPS: HTC might (!) develop a software that provides a (virtual) GPS within VISTA - using a connector software in SnapVue. So, easy way to add another sales argument later (to prevent price dropping to fast) - and hey, they obviously just had not the necessary resources to get that software developed. Look at ShagControl.... instable, not really SP1 capable... they have more important stuff to get fixed than enabling the embedded GPS.

skin57 said:
There is no special GPS chipset in the Shift - GPS functionality is just one of the many functions provided by the Qualcom MSM7200 - yeah, basically the chip that powers the WM part of the shift, including GSM/3G Radio. By the way: SnapVUE with the WindowsMobile-Like stuff is just a cheap side product of using the MSM7200: The processor is already there... even graphics and sound is embedded in the MSM7200 - in fact, HTC just needed to add some cheap ram, some cheap flash, and some glue logic (imagine a simble console switch that switches the screen, keyboard and touchscreen between Vista and SnapVue).
Regarding GPS, the "problem" is: The technology (drivers) for GPS are there - in the WindowsMobile/SnapVUE-Part (propably not implemented in the final ROM version, but at least, HTC has it available). BUT: SnapVue is not sold as WindowsMobile, but as SnapVue, without any support for 3rd party applications - it would not make sense to provide GPS within WindowsMobile/SnapVue (especially as there is no connection to the SD slot... yeah, stop dreaming, there is really no way to access SD or the HardDisk from SnapVue).
So, why is the GPS antenna there?? Well, there IS an potential option to use the GPS: HTC might (!) develop a software that provides a (virtual) GPS within VISTA - using a connector software in SnapVue. So, easy way to add another sales argument later (to prevent price dropping to fast) - and hey, they obviously just had not the necessary resources to get that software developed. Look at ShagControl.... instable, not really SP1 capable... they have more important stuff to get fixed than enabling the embedded GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
snapvue is windows mobile. everything just has been made hidden. everything can be done with the proper time. gps anyway when enabled will be in the wm side. thats because there are better apps there and it will use less power then.

Pawel062 said:
snapvue is windows mobile. everything just has been made hidden. everything can be done with the proper time. gps anyway when enabled will be in the wm side. thats because there are better apps there and it will use less power then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There is no way (really!) to access SD or HDD from SnapVue (without running VISTA at the same time). So, GPS is mostly useless in SnapVue/WM. The only usefull way to use the GPS would be an GPS driver that pipes the GPS from WM side (SnapVue) to VISTA.
Remember: HTC doesn't sold you a WindowsMobile implementation, but SnapeVue. Period.

Pawel062 said:
snapvue is windows mobile. everything just has been made hidden. everything can be done with the proper time. gps anyway when enabled will be in the wm side. thats because there are better apps there and it will use less power then.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
+1 and we could get it soon .. with the Shift Project

skin57 said:
There is no way (really!) to access SD or HDD from SnapVue (without running VISTA at the same time). So, GPS is mostly useless in SnapVue/WM. The only usefull way to use the GPS would be an GPS driver that pipes the GPS from WM side (SnapVue) to VISTA.
Remember: HTC doesn't sold you a WindowsMobile implementation, but SnapeVue. Period.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wow u people know lots about the shift *rollseyes* snapvue is wm!!! i'm not going to keep explaining myself to people who don't have a clue.

Pawel062 said:
wow u people know lots about the shift *rollseyes* snapvue is wm!!! i'm not going to keep explaining myself to people who don't have a clue.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course SnapVUE is WM, no question - but HTC sells it as SnapVUE. By doing so, they don't support ANY third party application...
The main limitation of WM on the Shift is storage space: There is no way to add more space (e.g. by using an SD card...), as WM don't has an physical connection to the SD port, the Harddisk, the USB port... but without additional storage space, the use of WM is really limited. I've installed Opera to be able to surf without VISTA, that's enough for me. All i'd be happy about is a connection app/driver that makes the GPS (part of the MSM7200, thus, the WM part) available in Vista.
I bought a VISTA machine, not a WM device.

skin57 said:
...
The main limitation of WM on the Shift is storage space: There is no way to add more space (e.g. by using an SD card...), as WM don't has an physical connection to the SD port, the Harddisk, the USB port...
...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Everyone keeps talking about no physical connection.
Guys, I talked to some technical ppl and they say it's possible to use the SD card under WM.
Please wait for the Shift project team finds a solution and stop telling people that there is no connection.

michael85 said:
Everyone keeps talking about no physical connection.
Guys, I talked to some technical ppl and they say it's possible to use the SD card under WM.
Please wait for the Shift project team finds a solution and stop telling people that there is no connection.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Which technical people? What do they know that the rest of us don't and how?
If you look at the SD card under Vista you will see that it is on the PCI bus. As far as I can see, the only real connection between the Vista and WM sides is via the USB bus and the SD card isn't on that. Now, I wouldn't stick my neck out and say that it definitely isn't connected to the WM side, but it certainly seems very likely to me.
It is always better to err on the side of caution - telling people that the Shift project team *will* find a solution is worse than telling people that they won't, since if you buy the device believing that SD card access will become available you may end up being sorely disappointed! In this case, it is better to buy with a pessimistic attitude, and then be pleasantly surprised if SD card access is made available.
Regards,
Dave

skin57 said:
Of course SnapVUE is WM, no question - but HTC sells it as SnapVUE. By doing so, they don't support ANY third party application...
The main limitation of WM on the Shift is storage space: There is no way to add more space (e.g. by using an SD card...), as WM don't has an physical connection to the SD port, the Harddisk, the USB port... but without additional storage space, the use of WM is really limited. I've installed Opera to be able to surf without VISTA, that's enough for me. All i'd be happy about is a connection app/driver that makes the GPS (part of the MSM7200, thus, the WM part) available in Vista.
I bought a VISTA machine, not a WM device.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
correct but with time most of those things can be brought back to the shift. one of things we will try to do is to get the hd or sd back so u can all install more stuff.

foxmeister said:
Which technical people? What do they know that the rest of us don't and how?
If you look at the SD card under Vista you will see that it is on the PCI bus. As far as I can see, the only real connection between the Vista and WM sides is via the USB bus and the SD card isn't on that. Now, I wouldn't stick my neck out and say that it definitely isn't connected to the WM side, but it certainly seems very likely to me.
It is always better to err on the side of caution - telling people that the Shift project team *will* find a solution is worse than telling people that they won't, since if you buy the device believing that SD card access will become available you may end up being sorely disappointed! In this case, it is better to buy with a pessimistic attitude, and then be pleasantly surprised if SD card access is made available.
Regards,
Dave
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
no one is saying u should buy it bc it will be coming soon. we are saying it isnt impossible to bring it back. if i remember correctly the sd is tied into wm actually but on the very low level.

Pawel062 said:
correct but with time most of those things can be brought back to the shift. one of things we will try to do is to get the hd or sd back so u can all install more stuff.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Of course i correct you: SD and HDD are connected to the PC-Side only. Hey, how would you implement a device-sharing on storage devices between two systems?? Imagine accessing the SD-Card from VISTA and WM at the same time... That's stuff that is implemented in Cluster-Solutions with SANs - but not in an UMPC, especially not by HTC.
Stop dreaming.

skin57 said:
Of course i correct you: SD and HDD are connected to the PC-Side only. Hey, how would you implement a device-sharing on storage devices between two systems?? Imagine accessing the SD-Card from VISTA and WM at the same time... That's stuff that is implemented in Cluster-Solutions with SANs - but not in an UMPC, especially not by HTC.
Stop dreaming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think the only way is to open shift, and solder inside an SD-CARD..

I'd be up for a little soldering, and I'd happily lose the SD card from Vista to gain it on the WinMo side. But I won't be doing any hardware mods until the warranty has expired, by then I'll have newer, better toys and won't mind risking the Shift so much.

skin57 said:
Of course i correct you: SD and HDD are connected to the PC-Side only. Hey, how would you implement a device-sharing on storage devices between two systems?? Imagine accessing the SD-Card from VISTA and WM at the same time... That's stuff that is implemented in Cluster-Solutions with SANs - but not in an UMPC, especially not by HTC.
Stop dreaming.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah right. You seems like a big boy knowing big thinks about clusters and SANs, but nobody is talking about simultaneous access. SD drivers can be disables on one side or one other depending on the needs.
And just to clear up thinks, debug tools are able to log to the sd card on WM side. It means lower level access does indeed exist.
There is no signal or proof that it is possible for the HDD, but I'm sure nobody was really hopping for this to happen.

Dell Venue 8 Pro Review

OK, so coming from Surface RT, this thing is small, really small, but I like it, because its soooooo much faster than the Surface RT was. I found myself using my surface for consumption 95% of the time, and the other 5% was doing remote access work. Now, I don't even have to use remote access, x86 support is amazing.
- No web compromises at all - Silverlight support (Time Warner Cable streaming TV - device got really warm doing this, probably why its not supported on WinRT), Java, all the Google stuff, just work with x86, no more sad workarounds through crappy 3rd party apps for RT. Not sure what having Silverlight, Java, Chrome will do to the battery, but so far, its pretty great. I streamed NFL game through IE yesterday, still had 70% battery left after 3.5 hour continuous stream. The back of the device gets warm, but not bad at all.
- Install TouchMousePointer - http://www.lovesummertrue.com/touchm...-us/index.html for those times where you need mouse pointer support on your desktop. I tried to use an Android trackpad app, it didn't work. Im going to be getting new Nokia Lumia 929 on release day, hopefully it works in the MS ecosystem.
- Active Pen support (Synaptics) - I have yet to use this, but reviews elsewhere aren't so great. For the most part, they say that if your a printer, its terrible. If you use cursive for note taking, its good. I am coming from a really bad capacitive (almost unusable), so any improvement will be good........not to mention that I didn't have to spend 1200$ on Surface Pro to get active digitizer. (eta on stylus delivery is 11/7), ill update my review then.
- Bluetooth mouse is a bit laggy, not sure if its my mouse, or the tablet. Maybe a driver update is needed. It seems a bit jumpy......going to see if I can try a different one, hopefully its just the mouse, and not the hardware.
- Micro USB - I really wish I could plug in non powered USB drives via an OTG cable adapter, but unfortunately they do not work. I will have to buy a powered hub to get it to work. Kind of annoying, but its the price you pay to have a device this small. The fact that I can connect to home group, and utilize file transfer via wireless network is a great feature of windows 8.
- No wired external display options - I have yet to try using MHL - anyone try this yet? Im hoping that it works. If not, Ill have to try a Miracast receiver - I am concerned with any lag that could occur though.
- Accessories...........or lack thereof - there are no accessories, dell has an overpriced case (40$), and a 35$ stylus that others suggest shouldn't cost more than 10-15$. I would love to find a good case that would prop it up........Not sure why other OEMs don't understand the importance of a good integrated kickstand - really missing this from the Surface. Wondering if a case from a Note 8, or Kindle, or Nexus would work, don't have time to compare sizes, etc........too busy tinkering, and installing real software on this thing.
- Performance - FAST....a lot faster than I thought.......this isn't your typical Atom processor, check out youtube, there are some videos of this thing playing some serious games at 30fps.....it is legit. Windows apps from the store are super fast, switching between them, etc.........see below for some desktop apps ive installed:
(note, I chose older versions of software purposefully because they are much less taxing on the cpu, but still serve 98% of their purpose):
- AutoCAD 2007 - runs great, faster than on my laptop (its an old laptop with core2duo processor, and AMD gpu). I haven't tried anything 3D, but I assume it will handle basic functions fine - im not going to render anything with it - that's what remote access is for, but in a pinch, if I need to I can open files natively. It tells me that its not compatible with windows 8, but files open no problem. I think im missing some fonts, etc, but for the most part, running AutoCAD on a 8" screen is freaking cool.
- Photoshop CS6 - runs great, haven't tried anything gpu intensive - it opens images Pretty quick.
Want to try Lightroom, Google Earth, VLC, Spotify desktop version, Remote desktop - yes, im going to set up so I can remote access my tablet.........don't ask, just because I can - and that's the beauty of Windows 8!!!...........32gb is pretty limited....I might return it for the 64gb version - unless there any way to install x86 apps, and/ or move installed metro apps to the SD card?
Loving it so far, it has some minor issues, so close to being the PERFECT portable device. If I were an OEM mfr, id make full USB port a priority - if you have to have a small hump on one end to support it, then so be it, its sooooooo much better to not have to have an OTG adaptor cable. Also, HDMI out should be standard as well, especially since Miracast is still somewhat new tech.

UBNAS81 said:
- No web compromises at all - Silverlight support (Time Warner Cable streaming TV - device got really warm doing this, probably why its not supported on WinRT),
Not sure what having Silverlight, Java, Chrome will do to the battery, but so far, its pretty great.
unless there any way to install x86 apps, and/ or move installed metro apps to the SD card?
Loving it so far, it has some minor issues, so close to being the PERFECT portable device. If I were an OEM mfr, id make full USB port a priority - if you have to have a small hump on one end to support it, then so be it, its sooooooo much better to not have to have an OTG adaptor cable. Also, HDMI out should be standard as well, especially since Miracast is still somewhat new tech.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Warm isnt why silverlight wasnt support on windows RT (winRT and windows RT are not the same btw, although it is true that there is no silverlight on WinRT I guess). Its obsolete and hardly supported by microsoft, they dont want to bother porting tech that they cant be bothered with on x86 any more to win32 on ARM too.
Silverlight, java and chrome wont effect the battery on your tablet any more than they would on a laptop really.
Its normal windows 8.1, so you can install x86 desktop programs onto whichever drive you want, hence why most software installers specifically ask where to install, just set that to SD card. There is no requirement to use C:/Program Files for win32 applications. That one I thought was common knowledge for all windows users.
Full size USB port would be nice but you wont get full current from it. The battery cannot supply enough current, nothing to do with overall size of the system. The same restriction applies to most windows tablets, android tablets, android phones and more rarely laptops too (although usually old ones).
It really was dumb of dell to not stick a video output somewhere on the device, that almost puts me off the thing entirely.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Warm isnt why silverlight wasnt support on windows RT (winRT and windows RT are not the same btw, although it is true that there is no silverlight on WinRT I guess). Its obsolete and hardly supported by microsoft, they dont want to bother porting tech that they cant be bothered with on x86 any more to win32 on ARM too.
Silverlight, java and chrome wont effect the battery on your tablet any more than they would on a laptop really.
Its normal windows 8.1, so you can install x86 desktop programs onto whichever drive you want, hence why most software installers specifically ask where to install, just set that to SD card. There is no requirement to use C:/Program Files for win32 applications. That one I thought was common knowledge for all windows users.
Full size USB port would be nice but you wont get full current from it. The battery cannot supply enough current, nothing to do with overall size of the system. The same restriction applies to most windows tablets, android tablets, android phones and more rarely laptops too (although usually old ones).
It really was dumb of dell to not stick a video output somewhere on the device, that almost puts me off the thing entirely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Are you referring to Silverlight the API or Silverlight the video format xD? The API was integrated in .Net and winRT.

mcosmin222 said:
Are you referring to Silverlight the API or Silverlight the video format xD? The API was integrated in .Net and winRT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I was not aware of any video format known as silverlight so you tell me which one I meant.
The API was always .NET based but uses one hell of alot of extensions. Silverlight programs will not run on a bare .NET virtual machine, even the windows 8 one. Easily proven with this lovely thing called trying it at home. .NET was integrated to winRT, silverlights "extra bits" were not.
Last major update to silverlight was december 2011. All releases since have been patch only. Silverlight has poor support outside of windows. Silverlight is entirely unsupported on android, iOS and linux, it seems rather unstable on OSX although that could just be the ancient OSX memory leak (personally witnessed OSX memory leaking on over 10 machines, yet you mention it on the apple forums asking for help in a polite manner and your thread gets deleted or they attribute it to firefox which is great but of the machines I have seen the issue on only 1 had firefox installed, my dads current mac it actually seems to be iTunes, quicktime, vuze and dropbox which are the main offenders) plus my dads mac having hardly any RAM probably compound this. Flash also sucks yet I would choose it over silverlight any day. Any company that limits itself to using silverlight for anything web based is utterly idiotic, except maybe in a thin client environment in some sort of corporation with windows thin clients perhaps, but even then I doubt the suitability in that role...

SixSixSevenSeven said:
I was not aware of any video format known as silverlight so you tell me which one I meant.
The API was always .NET based but uses one hell of alot of extensions. Silverlight programs will not run on a bare .NET virtual machine, even the windows 8 one. Easily proven with this lovely thing called trying it at home. .NET was integrated to winRT, silverlights "extra bits" were not.
Last major update to silverlight was december 2011. All releases since have been patch only. Silverlight has poor support outside of windows. Silverlight is entirely unsupported on android, iOS and linux, it seems rather unstable on OSX although that could just be the ancient OSX memory leak (personally witnessed OSX memory leaking on over 10 machines, yet you mention it on the apple forums asking for help in a polite manner and your thread gets deleted or they attribute it to firefox which is great but of the machines I have seen the issue on only 1 had firefox installed, my dads current mac it actually seems to be iTunes, quicktime, vuze and dropbox which are the main offenders) plus my dads mac having hardly any RAM probably compound this. Flash also sucks yet I would choose it over silverlight any day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually, Silverlight was a native API wrapped with .net methods to call from .net language. It was introduced with windows vista and most of it consumed by the WPF API implemented latter. The API itself survives through an open source implementation called Moonlight and is a viable cross platform GUI API.

mcosmin222 said:
Actually, Silverlight was a native API wrapped with .net methods to call from .net language. It was introduced with windows vista and most of it consumed by the WPF API implemented latter. The API itself survives through an open source implementation called Moonlight and is a viable cross platform GUI API.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Errm, no it doesnt seeming as moonlight was scrapped, besides, did you ever try moonlight? The thing did not work at all for anything more complex than hello world. Plus you said yourself, native API, entirely contradicting your previous statement of it being part of .NET, you dont really know yourself do you.
My point still stands. Unsupported on linux. Buggy on OSX. No longer being updated besides patching on windows. Not supported on mobile. Yep, totally a viable cross platform GUI.

SixSixSevenSeven said:
Warm isnt why silverlight wasnt support on windows RT (winRT and windows RT are not the same btw, although it is true that there is no silverlight on WinRT I guess). Its obsolete and hardly supported by microsoft, they dont want to bother porting tech that they cant be bothered with on x86 any more to win32 on ARM too.
Silverlight, java and chrome wont effect the battery on your tablet any more than they would on a laptop really.
Its normal windows 8.1, so you can install x86 desktop programs onto whichever drive you want, hence why most software installers specifically ask where to install, just set that to SD card. There is no requirement to use C:/Program Files for win32 applications. That one I thought was common knowledge for all windows users.
Full size USB port would be nice but you wont get full current from it. The battery cannot supply enough current, nothing to do with overall size of the system. The same restriction applies to most windows tablets, android tablets, android phones and more rarely laptops too (although usually old ones).
It really was dumb of dell to not stick a video output somewhere on the device, that almost puts me off the thing entirely.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have Photoshop installed on C - in order to move it to the sd card, can I just copy paste from C/Program files, or do you recommend re-installing to that particular location? Do you think there will be any noticible drop in performance from running application from micro sdhc card?

UBNAS81 said:
I have Photoshop installed on C - in order to move it to the sd card, can I just copy paste from C/Program files, or do you recommend re-installing to that particular location? Do you think there will be any noticible drop in performance from running application from micro sdhc card?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My experience with copy/pasting from C to another drive has been varied. Some applications will do it happily (GTA san andreas survived with a just a broken start menu shortcut, libre office died entirely. I would uninstall and reinstall to guarantee it survives the trip.
SD card read/write speeds should be fairly similar to the eMMC storage of the venue anyway. Application performance shouldnt be altered much.
Only other difference would be wear levelling. SSD's in desktop PC's may be slated for reduced lifetimes compared to old style magnetic hard drives, but SD cards are even worse. But they are cheap to replace and thankfully are replaceable unlike the internal storage on the tablet. Nor are they going to die on you next week, some people are regularly using raspberry pi's which boot the full system from SD card without issue (some people have also had them die from wear levelling in the pi after some heavy usage). If a pi can boot and run a full OS from SD, windows can run an application from an external SD card.

Did you tried out any games? i was wondering whether it can run old games like NFS most wanted or underground II.

rkoforever90 said:
Did you tried out any games? i was wondering whether it can run old games like NFS most wanted or underground II.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Havent tried yet, focusing on getting software I use most..........I do want some NFS, or something like it on the tablet, especially since EA has completely ignored windows 8 from a Racing / Sports game point of view. There are on screen controlers that can be used
What im wondering, is it worth it to install new games on it - say Tiger Woods 2013, and run on lower settings.........or to just go for say, TW2010, and let it run higher. I assume that because of ATOM graphics limitations on full Windows games it might be better to run older games than the newest.
Maybe i try out Call of Duty Modern Warfare from 3 or 4 years ago instead of trying to run Ghosts on the thing. I dont even know if it would run, but im just wondering if goign with older games would be a better move, any thoughts?

Cant hurt to try old and move newer if you have the games available.

UBNAS81 said:
Havent tried yet, focusing on getting software I use most..........I do want some NFS, or something like it on the tablet, especially since EA has completely ignored windows 8 from a Racing / Sports game point of view. There are on screen controlers that can be used
What im wondering, is it worth it to install new games on it - say Tiger Woods 2013, and run on lower settings.........or to just go for say, TW2010, and let it run higher. I assume that because of ATOM graphics limitations on full Windows games it might be better to run older games than the newest.
Maybe i try out Call of Duty Modern Warfare from 3 or 4 years ago instead of trying to run Ghosts on the thing. I dont even know if it would run, but im just wondering if goign with older games would be a better move, any thoughts?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep.me too thinking of the same ,iam planning to get a baytrail windows 8 tab with 10inch display and a keyboard(not sure know which one to buy though ) .anyway it will be a bit far fetched idea to run new games on a weak processor.but id like to play 1 or 2 old games like NFS underground II or resident evil 4.

How is the Wi-Fi on the VP8? I have the latitude 10 and the Wi-Fi has always seemed sluggish. The 5g always connects at the same speed as the 2.4Ghz band. Glad to hear the bay trail performs well.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

ElAguila said:
How is the Wi-Fi on the VP8? I have the latitude 10 and the Wi-Fi has always seemed sluggish. The 5g always connects at the same speed as the 2.4Ghz band. Glad to hear the bay trail performs well.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do have a 5ghz router right?

Yep and a 5Ghz extender as well. My phone will connect to either of the 5g connections at least 150mb. But not so for the latitude. I am hoping the VP8 would connect faster. It will be here tomorrow.
Sent from my SAMSUNG-SM-N900A using Tapatalk

I have an old Linksys G router at home, that desperately needs replacing, but just haven't gotten around to it. It hasn't given me any issues with streaming media, so I just haven't been motivated, but I am really looking to boost my home wifi speeds with one of the routers that can has USB media streaming capability. That being said, my DV8P has had no issues with WIFI. My Surface RT (which I am selling), had so many issues with limited wifi. No issues with this device so far.

Just came across this video...........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPPY4m8iY0k&feature=youtu.be
full desktop computer in 8" tablet with USB 3.0 docking station. I will be buying one of these asap.

UBNAS81 said:
Just came across this video...........http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=jPPY4m8iY0k&feature=youtu.be
full desktop computer in 8" tablet with USB 3.0 docking station. I will be buying one of these asap.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well not really...
It is plugged into a SINGLE micro USB 2.0 socket.. So you can NEVER get USB3.0 speed and if you use some monitors with the Pluggable, i doubt the data transfer rates will be high (and i am talking about USB 2.0 speed and not USB 3.0).

thE_29 said:
Well not really...
It is plugged into a SINGLE micro USB 2.0 socket.. So you can NEVER get USB3.0 speed and if you use some monitors with the Pluggable, i doubt the data transfer rates will be high (and i am talking about USB 2.0 speed and not USB 3.0).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The micro USB is USB3.0

SixSixSevenSeven said:
The micro USB is USB3.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
... And who said this? The Pluggable Guys?
The only thing, which i really trust would be the Dell specs OR if a Owner would present us some speed-tests or details from the Device-Manager in WIN8.1:
http://www.dell.com/us/p/dell-venue-8-pro/pd?oc=fncwv8p01h&model_id=dell-venue-8-pro
"Ports & Connectors
1 x Micro-AB USB2.0 (for trickle charging and data transfer)
1 x Headphone and microphone combojack
1 x 3FF micro-SIM slot (coming soon, optional with WWAN configuration)"
It is not that I would be unhappy about USB 3.0, but it is just USB 2.0..
Edit: The Dell Venue Pro 11!! has USB 3.0.. Not the 8"

Cheapo 10" Tablet, your recommendations. Will want to clean install OS

Hi, I am interested in buying a cheapo windows 8.1 with bing tablet and need help picking one from ebay. I will want to format and clean OS install
Can I have a recommendation on a model.. Budget no more than $300 Australia Dollars or around the 240 US.$
I am an IT techie so I know the ins and outs of installing os onto laptops and desktops.. i inderstand BIOS's and understand technology fairly well.
Tho never actually used a portable windows device. Do most of these devices have bios like a desktop? Startup selection hdd vs usb hdd etc?
I will want to end up deleting the recovery... Delete the android os if included and install 8.1 with bing clean, or eventually purchase a 8.1/10 pro for business use.
If I can have some info on whats good and whats not, i would really appreciate that.

Chuwi Vi10 64GB + Keyboard around $255 shipped to Australia from Gearbest.com
Cheapest one I could find. I myself is wanting this tablet, but might want to wait till Cherry Trail tablets are out.
Currently have a Voyo A1 Mini 8" Tablet. Win10 TP, removed android.

can you tell me how you went about doing this?
do these hand helds operate like a computer? same sort of bios settings?
how do you enter bios on your model?
is it anything like changing roms for mobile phones like samsung galaxy for example where you need USB cable connected and download roms onto it? or it is actually a fairly simple operation?
you can install drivers? where did you source them from?
any other comments would be great...

toxsickcity said:
can you tell me how you went about doing this?
do these hand helds operate like a computer? same sort of bios settings?
how do you enter bios on your model?
is it anything like changing roms for mobile phones like samsung galaxy for example where you need USB cable connected and download roms onto it? or it is actually a fairly simple operation?
you can install drivers? where did you source them from?
any other comments would be great...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I look into it as a handheld portable PC.
UEFI is what most Windows Tablet is using.
Installation, operation and use is exactly as you would expect it as with other Windows PCs, limited to its own hardware, and/or the OS you put on it. Search Ubuntu/Linux on chinese tablets.
You should do your assignments more before delving into this.
On a personal level, I can see myself selling my i3 15.6" laptop (I only retro game, and used mainly for Java, Visual Studios and non-hardware heavy) and my Voyo A1 Mini tablet, to get a good 2-in-1 PC. I need/want a more compact portable PC. And same as you, I've got a VERY limited budget.
To share to you my current requirements (deal-breakers if not met), and must not be lower/missing, to completely replace the said above PCs:
1. 64GB internal capacity (eMMC 5.0, better yet SSD) (higher capacity will be more than welcome)
2. HDMI output
3. Dock-in Keyboard supported (hate bluetooth keyboards)
4. At least 1 FULL USB slot (hoping a USB C tablet will be released soon)
5. A dedicated power input socket
6. Have decided to wait for Cherry Trail CPUs (hoping to be released end of September to holiday season)
7. Decent capacity for battery
8. 2GB Ram for an x86 OS (4GB on x64 OS) (more is more than welcome)
Optional:
Keyboard dock to have output sockets too (usb), built-in battery. similar to Asus T100. Hopefully newer tablets will have full x64 OSes.
Still.. to each their own, on how they'll be using the device/s.