Related
As the title already said, can we start a petition to demand HTC to come with an update to enable multitouch?
Obviously, there is nothing wrong with the hardware, it's just missing the multitouch api/driver or whatever.
I mean, it does work on some third party apps like opera, HTC Sense itself is a thirdparty app, with wm6.5 under its hood. It can be done, but what drives them not the fully support it?
Here is why, maybe:
They don't have a license for multitouch? It resembles the case a few years ago, when they came with a device, don't remember wich one anymore, but it performed terrible without the appropiate drivers because of HTC didn't licensed the drivers for it. Eventually, HTC bought the license and everything was settled.
I am sure that either MS or HTC has the code to do it, but for some reason, they just delivered a crippled touch screen device. I'd much rather would have no pinch and zoom at all, and have a stylus instead. Pinch and zoom is such a useles feature actually, i mean, for zooming into a picture or webpage, you need to have two hands to operate. One hand to hold the device and the other to pinch and zoom, while a double tap can be done with just one hand. If I need to operate the device with both hands, then at least me let me do so by controlling some on screen buttons to play a game.
HTC, i really like your efforts, but with a screen so huge and being capacitive, I think you could've done a better job. MS, license that damn multitouch.
So erm.... who's with me?
Man, don't be crazy. It's not just a matter of drivers, it's a matter of support within each and every application. What do you expect from HTC, that they rewrite all WM code out there?
Has any petition for HTC actually achieved anything? Not to my knowledge and I have seen a few knocking about.
I thought opera would support pinch zoom and double tap?
How can you petition HTC when WM 6.5 doesnt support multitouch? You will have to wait for WM7 for system wide support, at the moment pinch and zoom will have to do
Even when WM7 supports it, applications will still have to learn what to do with it.
I seem to remember commenting on this subject before in the original Leo thread. Seems I was right. No full multi touch then.
Well iÍ am pretty sure he meant that HTC should release some kind of developer kits for multitouch drivers (or pinch to zoom drivers to not call it multitouch cuz of license), also a compass kit would be great. So developers actualy could use multitouch function (like pinch to zoom) in theirs app.
Anyways, petition will not work, but what damage will it do to create it and sign it? I would sign it right away, it actualy might have impact on HTC (or on devs to reverse engineere it).
Maybe a petition will not make it, but developers and other enthusiast are welcome to have their say on this and express their feelings and I bet we're all dissapointed that there is no multitouch on the HD2. It is their.... but HTC and or MS has to unleash it. and it always invloves money... you may not think so... but these are bussinesmen. And yes, I meant that it would be better if HTC or MS turned us into the right direction regarding multitouch api's and drivers. If these are in, then the apps will follow soon enough. wich developer would not make their app multitouch capable? every developers does, just provide them with the code, HTC/MS.
hyellow said:
wich developer would not make their app multitouch capable?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Probably developers whose apps don't need it. Which is about every app apart from the browser and the picture viewer really - maybe also a couple others. Games are a different story though, but I'm sure that if EA wanted to they would find a way to get the information they need from HTC.
The main thing there is the emulators like FpseCE. Well for now it looks like it does support real multitouch. But we will have to get developer kit ourselves.
KowboyBebop said:
Well iÍ am pretty sure he meant that HTC should release some kind of developer kits for multitouch drivers (or pinch to zoom drivers to not call it multitouch cuz of license), also a compass kit would be great. So developers actualy could use multitouch function (like pinch to zoom) in theirs app.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Again this was discussed a monthe or so back, HTC will not be releasing an SDK for this.
I only hope the devs on here can help (they're good like that )
Mav
Yup they wont. But this petition should be to tell them that they should. And thats it. It will not work, but we can do as much "just in case". Signing petition with our wish written in is not gonna hurt right?
Utterly useless really.
Who is going to want to invest the time, energy, and money required in producing a proper API and related documentation etc. for the sake of one particular possible use of one model of phone for one year (before WM7 is out)? It's not even as if every single app could benefit from multitouch, either. Keyboards and games mostly, and there's currently not an enormous amount of either out for WM.
A big kludgey hack to shoehorn multitouch into an OS not designed for it, on a device where it's not an advertised feature... I can just see why HTC would be rushing to put this out there, and the software houses rushing to code specifically for it. Everyone's just waiting for WM7 where this will (hopefully!) be uniform, consistant, and part of the underlying OS.
I'd rather they put the effort into giving us an official ROM of 6.5.x when the time comes, or pretty much nything more useful.
Maybe I haven't read the thread well enough but my Leo seems to support multitouch... It's the sense that doesn't make use of this. But then again I haven't found it useful yet to open photo an video at the same time...
Post was made after Leo users tryed FPSeCE and they couldnt press 2 onscreen buttons, but the FPSeCE supports multitouch. After some tests the multitouch was confirmed. But to have apps to use multitouch they have to directly work with drivers. And this petition would want HTC to release SDK for it. Thats about it. Probably will NOT work, but we can at least sign it, cant we?
I don't think the petition will go anywhere. Everyone knows that this generation of window mobile is on the way to the graveyard, so microsoft is not going to throw money at it. Also, if you are a developer, would you still develop multitouch application to run on only ONE device with so few potential sales? Or would you develop for Android and iPhone while waiting for WM7 to come out?
So, let's just wait for WM7 and see if we get multitouch.
So in other words, multitouch works only in the browser (pinch-zoom), but when it comes to typing it doesn't support it? When it comes to typing texts with the keyboard...I take it, it is not like the multitouch that is found on the iphone?
That is correct.
Sc4Freak said:
That is correct.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is a serious buzzkill. I was banking on this phone having no lag or even having multi-touch when it came to typing. Maybe after some hands on time, some people who have received theirs can compare the typing speeds to that of the iPhone.
I believe that developing multitouch appz for one single device, isn't that bad after all. The experience they gather, can be usefull, when winmo 7 is out. if they develop now, then maybe it can be adapted more easily to winmo 7. And i don't think the HD2 will be the only device of HTC sporting a capacitive touchscreen for the next six months. I foresee, at least a couple more, like succesor to the diamond and pro series.
Hello,
I guess most of the People flashing WP7 on their HD2 do not have a WP7 License.
And by activating Windows Live services Microsoft gets to know your name, phone number, e-mail adress...
May Microsoft know that you do not own a WP7 device but only flashed it to your HD2?
Does nobody here believe that Microsoft could try to stop people flashing the Rom by using all legal steps possible?
What could happen? How are the possibilities for it to happen/not to happen?
What do you think?
i worried about that ...but i gave all fake information to microsft ...
I doubt microsoft would spend the time and money going after individual users just for using wp7 on their hd2. If anything, they will try to find a fix in their system to know if you have a genuine device or not and stop it from working, and I hear they have already sent a letter to a member of the dft team, which is why I don't think they officially released the rom here on xda. But it wouldn't be worth it for them to legally go after us end users... especially since we basically are using the key we got from them so we can buy apps from their app store, which is putting money in their pockets.
I doubt Microsoft will act on this. Sure, they might take some steps to make future updates more difficult to port or activate, but I doubt they will take legal action against the people running the OS.
For Microsoft, people running WP7 and activating Live services on their HD2 might even be a source of income, since they can buy stuff on the Market Place. I'm pretty sure they will conveniently count all LEO7 users the next time they brag about WP7's market share
Still, handset manufacturers will probably be less happy. If you can run WP7 on your HD2, there's not much incentive to buy a new phone with practically the same hardware just for the OS.
What could happen?
Maybe Microsoft will bring hundreds of users to trial and sentence them to death
No seriously, just imagine the huge effort to get a single user not to use the DFT WPH. This also would most probably result in bad newspaper articles against M$.
WPH is a thing were in my opinion ms should stop trying to be better or harder than appple and finding a middle-way between android and, you know, jailPhone.
Ah, back on topic.. i think nothing serious will happen, maybe ms tries to talk to the devs like they did with chevronWP7, but you wont be sentenced to death nor go to jail or something...
by using a pirate windows, M$ can know more info about you (even your naked foto), but have you ever heared someone be charged with pirate windows with no commercial use?
M/S could use legal action about copywrite theft but it would do is put someone already using a WinMo phone and trying to use a WP7 phone from leaving M/S forever. That would mean quite a few HD2 folks, when deciding about their next phone would blank out M/S.
M/S want WP7 to be a big success and the only way it will be big is if it gets a load of apps developed for it. And the only way it will get the iphone and android developers to make a WP7 app is if there is a big market for it. Now if M/S quote the number of WP7 phones that have been sold they will get a lot lot less than the number of activation licences for WP7 - now what number do you think M/S would want to broadcast? Yes they could exaggerate the number, but the real figure would get out.
Since Apple get a proportion of any apps sold, then no doubt M/S would go along the same lines, and this money would more than make up for the development costs.
The WP7 market share is well below ipohne o/s, Android, Symbian and Blackberry.
There are several possibilities... I think one thing is for sure: soon, they'll stop giving keys without IMEI or proof of purchase. I doubt they just ignore the issue, thinking of apps sales.
The lightest thing they'll do is ban all the keys given since yesterday. Some legit folks will be affected, but they just have to contact Microsoft. Microsoft might try to reach customers who asked for a key, so they confirm the possession of a legit WP7 device.
Can MS have access to the HD2 IMEI? Can they "ban" something besides being able to enter the Market?
If we consider lawsuits, a question arises: will they sue everyone who asked for a key or only those who've used it? Lawyers are expensive, but they are filthy rich!
So now we have a panic room in XDA.
Why are people afraid ? Did you still your HD2? Did you still your key? Will the LiVe services give you ilegitm money or pay app for free?
No I'm not a tief, I just ask a key that allowed that I can try a new WM SO on my WM Device I have just payed the license.
And MS have said to us, we can't have WP7S because of 3 keys issues, but now MS can be glad because we solve that issue for their.....it was MS that could pay some money for our development.
Comeone have you or no a WM Device, with licenses payed when you buy the HD2? I think yes, because I pay a lot of money for my HD2 WM Device.
An Alternative View...
I can understand why some are worrying about this but MS tend to go after larger organisations and even then have been known to be surprisingly reasonable - certainly when compared to the Adobe and Oracle sharks - providing people are trying to true up.
So I doubt they would go after individuals - if they were that litigious there is no way they would dish out activation codes without a few checks and balances.
But here's the other view; up until about 24 hours ago I hated WP7 with a passion. it seemed like a half-assed retrograde step from 6.5.5 and I was sore at MS for selling out to the Apple business model.
I don't eat humble pie too often, but I'm just about to - WP7 is pretty good and it may even be a keeper. It's lively, reasonably good fun and works quite nicely. I even think that Marketplace is as good as and perhaps even better than the App Store - I was surprised how many apps it had, including good quantities of free ones and although App Store must have more, many of them are utter rubbish. The fact that Marketplace lets you try before you buy is a massive plus and should allow users to filter out the rubbish.
Had it not been possible to get the phone activated and were it not for the good XDA-ers (and others) who have helped to unlock the device I wouldn't even have tried it, but when most of one's personal objections are removed, it becomes worth a look at least. My only major gripe at present is the lack of a decent Sat Nav.
So whether they meant to or not, MS have probably ensured that my next device will be a WP7 device and I would have said there was more chance of me eating my own face than doing that up until very recently. And that's without the money I have spent at Marketplace today and what I will spend in future.
Sense on the part of MS - unlikely. Coincidence and a loophole that will be closed soon - probably. Humble pie for tea? Definitely.
well Microsoft UK have stopped giving out codes and ask you to call HTC instead. i cant see Microsoft proceeding with legal as it would seem to be more hassle. i think they will start asking for more information about your phone when you ask for a code
IMO, why would they go so far as to go after individual users??? I believe they might contact DFT at the most. I mean, dont they want as much consumers using and experiencing their OS as possible, suscribing to Zune? Purchasing their apps???? I mean they should see this as more users getting to know and love WP7 and attracting more developers (since a lot of people hacking to these measures might be devs.) And maybe it will lead to users wanting a WP7 device as their next phone after being so pleased with the experience on their HD2... I mean, i doubt this would put a dent on WP7 sales overall since we are such a small # of users doing this. Just make it harder to get the code, and publically say "that they dont encourage/reccomend this and to get a real WP7 device yadda yadda yadda..."
Plus, we already have a license to use one of their OS's (WM6.5) so i bet they can be a bit more easy on us than to say... a port to an Android device
just a thought...
Didn't we already have a topic like this?
I think we got enough of an answer here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10601038&postcount=16
how legal/illegal this might be I am of the belief that microsoft is smart enough to not waste money by going after all us individuals. I do believe that they might try to block us from using wp7 by applying new securityfeatures just like apple does with jailbreak though As said previously MS just stopped giving out keys in the UK and even though they would try to check then your phone would show up as a HD7. If they dig deeper they may be able to see that you really do not own a HD7, but again i do not believe they are willing to spend that much time.
Danation said:
Didn't we already have a topic like this?
I think we got enough of an answer here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=10601038&postcount=16
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
good enough for me if thats the case LMAO
May be we should try to write the public letter to Microsoft with request to give us a possibility to buy a license for wp7? Why they allow to upgrade XP to W7 and don't allow to upgrade WM6.5->WP7?
Hi,
I would like to start discussion, what do you thing, why is the MS still issuing tha activation codes for WP7. Nobody here could think, that in MS are so stupid, that they did not noticed, that there is successful port of WP7 to HD2 and that they are now issuing the activation keys to those phones.
I am thinking about those possible reasons:
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
I think option 1.
would go for option 1.
only marketshare that would go up is web browser marketshare... they do not sell more phones this way.
what could be a fourth option is that microsoft actually uses the XDA community to test every security system in their OS for loopholes and bugs in an early stage so they can fix all that (without having to look for the problems theirselves) and make sure people are unable to hack their OS when the OS goes into a more complete and final form as the OS is now only in 7.0 and not even released globally.
still option 1 is more likely. they possibly do not have a database with all s/n or imei numbers for all (sold) wp7 phones so they are unable to check.
aenedor said:
I think option 1.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Its Option 1. I remember reading on their support site that on some cases that the verification fails (the did not mention the possible reasons) on any windows phone out of the box.
homer.web said:
...
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Definitely #1. When I called technical support, it seemed like the woman I talked with had done this before and she knew exactly what I was talking about. She asked if I was using WP7 and when I said yes, she even said "Oh, well that's why you need an activation code." I think I read somewhere that even if you're using a WP7 device, doing a hard reset on the phone would cause you to need a new activation code, so it's not out of the ordinary for them to receive calls about it I suppose.
#3 is something I'm a bit worried about in the back of my mind, but the thing is my phone identifies itself as an HD7, so I'm not sure if MS would be able to tell it wasn't. I also don't think it's worth their time and money to look into the issue since in the bigger picture, the amount of users who haven't bought an "offical" WP7 device is relatively small I would think. Another thing is they're now getting money from me, since while I have absolutely no interest in buying a new WP7 device, I'm now buying apps/games and will probably buy some music through Zune (really digging the software).
I don’t think there is a downside for MS at the moment. From what I understand, the HD2 is one of the few (last gen) phones capable of running WP7 and the more people that use WP7 the sooner that apps that are popular for other OS's will be created for WP. More money for MS but more importantly, quicker adoption by the general public because the marketplace will quickly catch up with Apple and Droid.
From my limited use of WP7, it’s a great addition. Different thinking in its design but a distinct lack of business and productivity tools in the marketplace is going to hold me back from a using this as my daily OS.
Not a bad thought
I say #1 for sure, though i fear #3 to be honest ;-)
I am highly impressed with Windows Phone 7, and Microsoft may have realized that someone like me may make a WP7 device their next phone purchase.
1 and 2, please not 3.
It's obviously 1 as there have been several actual WP7 handsets needing activation also - that said, there is nothing stopping them from killing all the HD2 codes at any given time. The IMEI still identifies the phone as a HD2 rather than an HD7 so whenever they feel the need...
They could also go as far as banning your Live account from any future access to Zune and Xbox Live due to this - both the one used on your phone and the one you [may have] given them during your phonecall.
I was thinking #2, but i'm reading more and more people now not getting codes. therefore i guess it's #1.
will be very interesting to see what happens when the update comes along. ?will you dare to try it? will marketplace and apps stop working even if you don't install it?
Why should MS actually have a problem with 5 to 10 000 enthusiats that are flashing WP7 on their HD2's? I don't think that will affect sales of new WP7 phones as the HD2 is not produced anymore anyway.
ill take number 3 for 500.00 Alex kidding
I truly believe MS is going to lock us out from Live services similar to the same issue the xbox 360 with a custom FW have,they do a massive band of xbox 360 systems from xbox live service a couple of times a year.
Although we are not pirating any games such in the case of xbox 360 flashed with custom firmware (and yes some people are going to say some use their flashed xbox 360 to backup their games I truly don't care, save it for your mama) just modifying our phones but it seems to me as one way for them to screw us over.
1 & 2 & - I fear - even 3
homer.web said:
Hi,
I would like to start discussion, what do you thing, why is the MS still issuing tha activation codes for WP7. Nobody here could think, that in MS are so stupid, that they did not noticed, that there is successful port of WP7 to HD2 and that they are now issuing the activation keys to those phones.
I am thinking about those possible reasons:
they do not want to piss regular customers, who could have this problem with the activation
they want to have higher marketshare, so they are just overlooking the issue
they will shut all those WP7 and live ids in next update, so they do not care right now
What do you think guys?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You do know that Microsoft and HTC along with the rest of them actually read everything posted on these XDA forms.
Why did HTC stop giving out sd cards when everybody started saying there cards were faulty!
Think about it!!!!!!
Russ
Don't be too paranoic. A few years ago Microsoft politely asked XDA not to allow the posting of custom ROM's on it's servers. NOTE: They didn't ask for discontinuation of ROM development, although they could do this legally. They just asked that the ROM's are not hosted on XDA. MS knows this site very well since Day 1.
Same goes for HTC. You look at it in another way: XDA is a perfect testing field for all sorts of things. Here you have a bunch of relatively competent enthusiasts that are ready to do almost everything to theis phones That's a very valuable resource for companies like MS and HTC.
Think about HTC. Their phones are always hackable unlike the phones from other brands. Have asked yourself why this is the case?
TheOnly1 said:
Don't be too paranoic. A few years ago Microsoft politely asked XDA not to allow the posting of custom ROM's on it's servers. NOTE: They didn't ask for discontinuation of ROM development, although they could do this legally. They just asked that the ROM's are not hosted on XDA. MS knows this site very well since Day 1.
Same goes for HTC. You look at it in another way: XDA is a perfect testing field for all sorts of things. Here you have a bunch of relatively competent enthusiasts that are ready to do almost everything to theis phones That's a very valuable resource for companies like MS and HTC.
Think about HTC. Their phones are always hackable unlike the phones from other brands. Have asked yourself why this is the case?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is correct. You have hit the nail on the head. HTC & Microsoft like what the XDA Devs do with these ROMs, as it will enhance them to produce better ones. Just think back a few months, they were going to release the wp7 update for the HD2. And then not? Why.. Probably to see if the Devs could do a hack. Also why would microsoft make some tools available to enhance these ROMs. Yes you are correct, they like what's being accomplished.
Its the same with the activation keys, they now have none stop requests!! But they will issue them. Will have to wait and see if the new update works, or crashes it?? I will give it a try.
Russ
A 'carphone warehouse' insider has informed me that they recieved a bulliten stating that some batches of HTC phones were shipped prior to being activated by MS.
MS apparently have a list of new activation numbers for these handsets but may not have a record of any IMEI numbers etc (he wasn't sure how much they knew about the handsets)
Basically it seems that authentication will also fail on some original HTC WP7 handsets (like the HD7) so MS are prepared to issue those with new activation numbers.
Personally, when I gave my IMEI for my HD2 to get the activation code I changed the last 3 digits and they still said 'ah..yes it's a HTC phone, is that correct?', so might be a good idea to base a made up IMEI on a real one.
The way I see it:
This community and the readers are the one who have spent their time to make their phone compatible with Microsoft so they can use MICROSOFT more. They are saving Microsoft marketing money and expanding its share and generate revenue through apps for them.
Microsoft has always been smart with this. They let the piracy of Windows in ASIA to slit through on basis of expansion of market share. Microsoft should know better than anybody else, why most of the planet use windows,
Microsoft has got the label of M$ but in all fairness, they have been nice considering the power and their dominance. They have special discounts for students, their OS provides the opportunity for people to build any system they want at very very affordable costs.
Their Windows Mobile 7 app development kit virtually has made it simple for app developers to develop apps and make money.
(obviously, they win but at the same time, reduces the production budget for start up folks)
I bought 4 copies of Windows 7 PRO x64 through student discount. Who else would give me so much discount to enable me to buy so many fantastic products?
sorry for the rant and fanboyism. I thought it was justified.
ever thought that maybe they don't know about the hd2 running wp7, my friend had to contact ms for activation for his hd7...
I hope e this is try, and can run in our beautifful HD2.
...because i can't leave without Copy\Past feature in a smarthone SO....until that, i'm on Android scene.
http://www.winrumors.com/rumor-windows-phone-7-update-on-february-7/
Windows Phone 7 update on February 7
54 minutes ago...
Microsoft may be gearing up to release its first Windows Phone 7 update on February 7 according to reports.
LiveSide has tracked a number of French sites that suggest Microsoft will release its first Windows Phone 7 update on February 7. There’s no proof that the date is accurate and the timing is odd given that Microsoft chief Steve Ballmer will be in Barcelona on February 14 for the Mobile World Congress. Whether or not the date is accurate, WinRumors can confirm that Microsoft has Released to Manufacturing (RTM) its first update codenamed “NoDo”.
Microsoft’s first update will improve application start-up and resume times and introduce the important copy and paste feature. Microsoft posted a support article earlier this week that details the update process for Windows Phone 7 devices. The support article has led many to believe that the update is due imminently.
Microsoft revealed earlier this week that it has now shipped 2 million devices to carriers. Microsoft previously revealed that the company had shipped 1.5 million Windows Phone 7 units between the October launch and December. Research firm IDC and application platform Appcelerator recently surveyed over 2,000 developersto work out their intent for 2011. Developer interest for Windows Phone 7 rose 8 points to 36% ‘very interested’ according to the results. IDC says the interest was “due to a better-than-expected launch.” Survey respondents also said that “Windows Phone’s improved UI was a critical factor for the increase.”
Microsoft also revealed there are now 24,000 registered Windows Phone developers and over 6,500 applications in the marketplace. Microsoft’s customer satisfaction rates on Windows Phone handsets are at 93% according to the company. Microsoft is believed to be planning to unveil a second bigger update in February at the Mobile World Congress show in Barcelona, Spain. Microsoft’s second update will introduce enhanced developer controls for applications and updated Silverlight components.
Joe Belfiore, who oversees Windows Phone Program Management, and is responsible for the design and software product definition of forthcoming generations of Windows phones will keynote MIX11 this year. Belfiore is expected to layout a roadmap for the future of Windows Phone 7 and detail Microsoft’s second Windows Phone 7 update. Microsoft is also working on a major overhaul of the Windows Phone 7 browser. In a job posting, listed in November, the software maker promises a “major overhaul of standard support and new approaches to make significant advances in performance, power consumption and bandwidth utilization.” Microsoft may be ready to detail its future Internet Explorer mobile plans at MIX in April too. Microsoft is believed to be planning Flash and HTML5 support for Windows Phone 7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lets wait, and see if Microsoft wants ot not, more embassatores for WP7s.....
From what i'm reading it seems to me that microsoft won't block htc hd2 phones, they want developers to go to windows phone 7, they want ratings to go up.
So to me is they won't block access for htc hd2's.
After the update...
Microsoft, does NOT want hackers and independent developers modifying their OS. The HTC HD2 will be excluded from the update. If Microsoft wanted this and other devices like it on the new OS, they would lighten up on their restrictions. After all THEY are the ones that control it.
The WP7 update will close the bug that allows the Chevron tool to work. Our only hope is that someone will hack the update to work. It's going to be much harder this time, as MS had some help and insight from the Chevron guys! Time will tell us for sure.
I actually don't understand how Microsoft could exclude the HD2 from the update, given the current architecture. Their own Marketplace servers think the HD2 is an HD7... if they could detect the difference, they would have blocked us already.
We know that Microsoft has designed the WP7 to have complete and total seperation between the OEM and carrier's device-specific modules on the one hand, and the vanilla OS on the other. Microsoft's updates are exclusively for the latter portion of the OS, which is why they can push out a single update package to all unlocked devices *directly*.
In short, my money is on the first update working just fine for the HD2, breaking very little in the process. It isn't a question of what Microsoft secretly wants. This is about HTC building the HD7 out of almost all the same hardware as the HD2, and any small differences were easily patched up by DFT.
I might add that since Microsoft has triumphantly announced that NoDo will break ChevronWP7, wouldn't you expect them to also announce that they had closed an HD2 loophole?
benjaminries said:
I actually don't understand how Microsoft could exclude the HD2 from the update, given the current architecture. Their own Marketplace servers think the HD2 is an HD7... if they could detect the difference, they would have blocked us already.
We know that Microsoft has designed the WP7 to have complete and total seperation between the OEM and carrier's device-specific modules on the one hand, and the vanilla OS on the other. Microsoft's updates are exclusively for the latter portion of the OS, which is why they can push out a single update package to all unlocked devices *directly*.
In short, my money is on the first update working just fine for the HD2, breaking very little in the process. It isn't a question of what Microsoft secretly wants. This is about HTC building the HD7 out of almost all the same hardware as the HD2, and any small differences were easily patched up by DFT.
I might add that since Microsoft has triumphantly announced that NoDo will break ChevronWP7, wouldn't you expect them to also announce that they had closed an HD2 loophole?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I appreciate your train of thought, and love the optimism
Is there something like a kudos button here?
neugroove said:
I appreciate your train of thought, and love the optimism
Is there something like a kudos button here?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, But he just said it
MS will surely shut down that bug on their os and no longer hd2 with wp7 ,but for surely they will hack into it , MS answered me that porting WP7 to HD2 WAS NOT ILEIGAL
benjaminries said:
I actually don't understand how Microsoft could exclude the HD2 from the update, given the current architecture. Their own Marketplace servers think the HD2 is an HD7... if they could detect the difference, they would have blocked us already.
We know that Microsoft has designed the WP7 to have complete and total seperation between the OEM and carrier's device-specific modules on the one hand, and the vanilla OS on the other. Microsoft's updates are exclusively for the latter portion of the OS, which is why they can push out a single update package to all unlocked devices *directly*.
In short, my money is on the first update working just fine for the HD2, breaking very little in the process. It isn't a question of what Microsoft secretly wants. This is about HTC building the HD7 out of almost all the same hardware as the HD2, and any small differences were easily patched up by DFT.
I might add that since Microsoft has triumphantly announced that NoDo will break ChevronWP7, wouldn't you expect them to also announce that they had closed an HD2 loophole?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wish I shared your optimism and hope you are correct, but from what I can understand, the update will effectively push out a new ROM having backed up the old one first.
Whatever black magic the DFT guys did to hack the ROM to work on HD2 would surely be undone? I therefore believe we won't get the update unless and until the DFT hack it.
There could be stuff below the ROM level that won't be affected and it could be this stuff that DFT tweaked - not knowing the architecture of WP7 I couldn't comment.
Being a pessimist, it just feels too good to be true that a update would work without any issue - hope I'm wrong though. This could be how MS propose to close the HD2 loophole. It would even work quite well for MS. Having had a taste of WP7, how many of us might go out and buy a WP7 phone having had an extended trial and then being cut off from our dealer...
Gustopher said:
I wish I shared your optimism and hope you are correct, but from what I can understand, the update will effectively push out a new ROM having backed up the old one first.
Whatever black magic the DFT guys did to hack the ROM to work on HD2 would surely be undone? I therefore believe we won't get the update unless and until the DFT hack it.
There could be stuff below the ROM level that won't be affected and it could be this stuff that DFT tweaked - not knowing the architecture of WP7 I couldn't comment.
Being a pessimist, it just feels too good to be true that a update would work without any issue - hope I'm wrong though. This could be how MS propose to close the HD2 loophole. It would even work quite well for MS. Having had a taste of WP7, how many of us might go out and buy a WP7 phone having had an extended trial and then being cut off from our dealer...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah right, I wouldn't buy the same hardware again, I would consider if at least any of the wp7 phones get the Desire HD hardware, but none of them has it. If the update stop us from wp7 then I'll stick with android and wait for the next major hardware upgrade then I will look for another phone.
Voluntary update?
My understanding is that the update will not mandatory.
You can choose to update you system or not. So our HD27's will still work once the update is released - we just wont have the new features or be able to run apps that use the new featrues.
I thinks the chances of the update working are fair to good. From what I have gathered the biggest problem the DFT team had was getting magldr and the WP7 OS to play well together from NAND.
I may be wrong - but I like the "glass half full approach".....
I don't think you could update the hd2 , and if I was DFT I had prevented it from updating to (just to be sure that there are after a update no 14000 bricks)
i wouldn't be surprised if the HD2 could flawelessly get the update. Since it is an MS update, none of the hardware specific software/drivers will be affected. Otherwise, MS has to push updates for specific devices and that is not what they are planning to do. But who'll know? I am sure to be the first to try that out and if I will brick my device, than so be it. I don't think the HD2 can be bricked beyond repairing. With all the great tutorials, first aid guides here on XDA, I think it is safe to try it.
benjaminries said:
I actually don't understand how Microsoft could exclude the HD2 from the update, given the current architecture. Their own Marketplace servers think the HD2 is an HD7... if they could detect the difference, they would have blocked us already.
We know that Microsoft has designed the WP7 to have complete and total seperation between the OEM and carrier's device-specific modules on the one hand, and the vanilla OS on the other. Microsoft's updates are exclusively for the latter portion of the OS, which is why they can push out a single update package to all unlocked devices *directly*.
In short, my money is on the first update working just fine for the HD2, breaking very little in the process. It isn't a question of what Microsoft secretly wants. This is about HTC building the HD7 out of almost all the same hardware as the HD2, and any small differences were easily patched up by DFT.
I might add that since Microsoft has triumphantly announced that NoDo will break ChevronWP7, wouldn't you expect them to also announce that they had closed an HD2 loophole?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
They can detect it from IMEI, first 8 digits state the manufacturer and model. There are DBs on the net to verify IMEI against phone maker and model. e.g. imei-number.com/tac-list
MerLinh said:
Yeah right, I wouldn't buy the same hardware again, I would consider if at least any of the wp7 phones get the Desire HD hardware, but none of them has it. If the update stop us from wp7 then I'll stick with android and wait for the next major hardware upgrade then I will look for another phone.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Fair point. Until DFT WP7 I was at a loss though; WM6.5.5 is dying through lack of new stuff, I didn't fancy WP7 and having had a play with Android it just irritates me - I know it can be changed but the default colour scheme and design looks like it was done by a class of 7 year olds with a box of crayons (NB: my opinion, apologies Android-lovers).
So at least I know now that I could go out and buy a WP7 device, but you are quite correct that the launch phones are a disappointing bunch, with nothing one whit better than my HD2.
I have a hunch that something sexy must be coming as WP7 slowly gathers momentum, so I'll hang onto my money for now.
What to do if the update breaks the HD2(7) though...
(Accepting that it may well be optional and might well not break it even then)
hyellow said:
i wouldn't be surprised if the HD2 could flawelessly get the update. Since it is an MS update, none of the hardware specific software/drivers will be affected. Otherwise, MS has to push updates for specific devices and that is not what they are planning to do. But who'll know? I am sure to be the first to try that out and if I will brick my device, than so be it. I don't think the HD2 can be bricked beyond repairing. With all the great tutorials, first aid guides here on XDA, I think it is safe to try it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Huh, I wouldn´t count on that. I can definitely imagine the updater could be able to detect the phone you are using (many of us showing "HD7") and upload specific drivers, too - the original WP7 devices did receive some updates already. To make the updates user friendly, they maybe include those brand/operator specific files and drivers, who knows. And replacing the DFT/Leo70 driver material with original HD7 versions might maybe brick the system...
galatei said:
They can detect it from IMEI, first 8 digits state the manufacturer and model. There are DBs on the net to verify IMEI against phone maker and model. e.g. imei-number.com/tac-list
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that seems to be a bit far stretched... but who knows... modern times, no?
At least, it would kind of confirm my thoughts above...
It could be that we may get the update and install it OTA,but in absence of any immediate DFT or Chevron Development efforts we could very well get stuck with WP7 on our HD2s !!!.
I'm pretty sure we won't be able to update our phones successfully with MS's update... we'll probably have to wait until DFT releases an update to flash manually. But unless DFT pre-hacks the registry to make it show up as a HD7, we will have problems doing anything with it until a new way to unlock it is discovered. We'll have to wait and see what happens, but we will probably be stuck without updates for a while I think.
the only update i am looking forward to is massively improved battery life, this has to be from DFT.
haksam said:
the only update i am looking forward to is massively improved battery life, this has to be from DFT.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Really? How can you live without Copy \ Past feature? I use WP7s for 3 days, and was very annoying without that feature.
And I miss, only copy /past but too, more share options and multitasking.... I like very much the UI, but I need quickly this features added.
Sent by my HD2 Gingerbread device
benjaminries said:
I actually don't understand how Microsoft could exclude the HD2 from the update, given the current architecture. Their own Marketplace servers think the HD2 is an HD7... if they could detect the difference, they would have blocked us already.
We know that Microsoft has designed the WP7 to have complete and total seperation between the OEM and carrier's device-specific modules on the one hand, and the vanilla OS on the other. Microsoft's updates are exclusively for the latter portion of the OS, which is why they can push out a single update package to all unlocked devices *directly*.
In short, my money is on the first update working just fine for the HD2, breaking very little in the process. It isn't a question of what Microsoft secretly wants. This is about HTC building the HD7 out of almost all the same hardware as the HD2, and any small differences were easily patched up by DFT.
I might add that since Microsoft has triumphantly announced that NoDo will break ChevronWP7, wouldn't you expect them to also announce that they had closed an HD2 loophole?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
actually, think about it, there is one single blindingly obvious difference thats so easy to detect they could get a 10 year old to locate them.
How many buttons do you have on your HD2? i wouldnt be sure there was no way of knowing. even if we take that out you'll still have some kind of unique signature on the cracked OS that we have all used, it would be near on impossible to hide the fact its an HD2 and not an HD7 if they really wanted to find out.
I just happened to read an article over at pocket now:
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/microsoft-on-hacked-windows-phone-7-and-live-services
titled: Microsoft On Hacked Windows Phone 7 And Live Services
in their vain search for headline news it seems pocketnow made it a part of their duty to have Microsoft look into us getting Live ID keys for our HD2s running Windows Phone 7. Now Microsoft is saying their going to take a hard look into this pratice. who knows what is going to happen if Microsoft is going to ban the issued keys
by the amount of mad faces you can tell i'm pissed.
wether Microsoft new about what was going on or not, pocketnow just amplified the issue.
It was strange that Pocketnow chose to push Microsoft on the issue. Microsoft seemed to be (deliberately?) ignoring the HD2-WP7 key issue. Pocketnow is just forcing them to take a position - which helps noone (except Pocketnow).
I imagine that Microsoft wont be too active in pursuing our phones. They will probably just put in place a policy to restrict new keys.
Perhaps everyone is just jealous of us & our HD2....
coolfire said:
Perhaps everyone is just jealous of us & our HD2....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sounds like thats the case.
link is dead anyways >.<
Ive been following pocketnow.com for years, very disappointed in them for forcing this and publishing this article.
F*CK you Anton D Nagy!!!!!
jcsy said:
link is dead anyways >.<
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/microsoft-on-hacked-windows-phone-7-and-live-services
Everybody should leave a comment on the article to show how let down you feel with them/author.
TheATHEiST said:
Ive been following pocketnow.com for years, very disappointed in them for forcing this and publishing this article.
F*CK you Anton D Nagy!!!!!
http://pocketnow.com/windows-phone/microsoft-on-hacked-windows-phone-7-and-live-services
Everybody should leave a comment on the article to show how let down you feel with them/author.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm with you on this one.
As long as everyone is buying from the marketplace and not bloomin well ripping apps and side loading them, Microsoft will be happy, but alas with all things people feel the need to steal from others, Android is rife with piracy...
So I would imagine Microsoft would be very pleased with HD running WP7 and activating the Live services as they can get more revenue from the marketplace without having to support our devices in anyway.
JUST BUY SOME APPS people and we will be OK.
People always seems to immediately think just because you have cracked or hacked a device it means you are a pirate, this is not true
Tards at pocketnow grrr haters! Thats what they are!
Hmm they always been apple fanboyz, but this is it!
A little sidenote, if microsoft locks us out, I'll never ever buy a phone from them again. Customers will drop like flies, let's sit this one out.
One of the only results of the article is that more people will know about being able to flash the WP7 ROM on their HD2s. Microsoft was of course aware of the ROM and why the number of people asking for keys for WP7s increased. Microsoft surely had formulated their responses and policies on the situation long before pocketnow.com contacted them.
The only other result is more people can see what kind of outfit that site is.
Most likely this will have little effect on using the ROM or obtaining keys.
Yeah, I saw that article earlier. Was surprised they would press the issue, but you know journalists, they generally have no conscience, all they want is a story. Won't be supporting or recommending pocketnow from now on.
Think as a Microfoft guy. Some retards come and ask you if you are OK that your services are being hacked. Of course you will not say that you are OK with this. It's a completely different question if you will do something about it.
Although the term "hacking" is completely wrong here. We all have legitimate WP7 keys issued by MS. He have hacked NOTHING to get Live access. Some ppl even said honestly they have a HD2. The MS representative that gave me the key never asked me about my device btw.
Just see the matter from MS point of view: YOu have 10 000 or so Windows Mobile customers that have found a way to flash WP7 to their devices. Unfortunately for you these folks can also flash Android to their devices. What would you do? Shut them down and send them to Google?
rlydiard said:
One of the only results of the article is that more people will know about being able to flash the WP7 ROM on their HD2s. Microsoft was of course aware of the ROM and why the number of people asking for keys for WP7s increased. Microsoft surely had formulated their responses and policies on the situation long before pocketnow.com contacted them.
The only other result is more people can see what kind of outfit that site is.
Most likely this will have little effect on using the ROM or obtaining keys.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Pocketnow already has tons of articles telling people that HD2 has got WP7 now.
What they did by this article was just to get Microsoft to look into a matter which they were most likely deliberately ignoring!
Am totally disappointed by Pocketnow!
Tanmay® said:
Pocketnow already has tons of articles telling people that HD2 has got WP7 now.
What they did by this article was just to get Microsoft to look into a matter which they were most likely deliberately ignoring!
Am totally disappointed by Pocketnow!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I am quite aware of the articles that pocketnow.com has put online about HD2s running WP7. Partly because of those articles, and because Microsoft does indeed monitor XDA-Developer posts, they were indeed aware of the port since the beginning, and they certainly were aware of why so many people have been trying to obtain keys.
I doubt that Microsoft was deliberately ignoring the situation, but had already formulated their policies. And, as another poster pointed out, how do you expect Microsoft to respond when asked by a publication about the situation?
Microsoft could have come out with a much tougher statement, but they did not, so I still maintain that the situation for those who use WP7 ROMS on the HD2s will not drastically change, and that Microsoft will not make a sudden change of course here.
MS were already looking into this. You don't get to be the biggest software company by not knowing what is going on with your business.
Everyone should just relax. I've had a few friends who have told MS that they are running WP7 on HD2 and they need an activation code. MS gave them one, no questions asked.
If MS wanted to stop us using WP7 then they would have blocked ALL services by now. The HD2 is such a small share of their market, do you think they care? Not really. More exposure for them and their OS.
Personally, I don't really care either way. It would cost MS a few bucks to actively exclude certain phones. It isn't worth their time or effort. WP7 is a new OS. Why would they want to limit exposure?
Pocketnow are in it for the money. Any news is GOOD news.....
For all the people saying that they are disappointed by PN.COM,
Here is the response from the writer:
Anton D. Nagy said:
"@Adam Bentley, @luke Flex
Thanks for the kind words!
I get it you're neither a developer with software in the Marketplace nor songwriter/artist/or part of a band with its Music up on Zune. I understand you're not even part of an OEM or carrier that builds or sells smartphones or communication services and I think you’re not part of the team that made Windows Phone 7 possible. Simply put, I don't think you're someone who earns anything from the activities above. Should I wish you that your work, whatever it is that you do, would end up hacked/plagiarized the same way someday? No, I will not!
If you think that Anton, or even pocketnow.com for that matter, can do anything to influence a company like Microsoft, you're a fool! If you think that Anton, or even pocketnow.com for that matter, brought Microsoft the terrible news that its platform and services got hacked, you're a fool again!
What I'm saying here -- and this will be in no way considered pocketnow.com’s position -- is that I don't really care about the opinions of readers like you! Not because of the "screw you" part because we're professionals, but because the words that express your inappropriate thoughts, because of the mentality. You think you deserve to have something just because it simply can be achieved or because you own an HTC HD2? You disrespect the thousands who’ve worked hard for software that runs on hardware designed and manufactured by other thousands. You disrespect your fellow community members who have legitimately bought Windows Phone 7 software running on Windows Phone 7 hardware. Last but not least, you disrespect other pocketnow.com readers that might agree with the things I said above."
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
To my mind, this answer is just a kind of hypocrisy, bc I don't think Microsoft would be angry if some thousands of users would buy applications from the market, or even if some HD2 users would develop some apps (Microsoft claims that developers are needed and welcome).
In addition, remember that a lot of us (and me in particular) have bought HD2 only because it was the first phone that would have an update to WP7...
To my mind, it's just fair for us to have a port, even hacked, to WP7 !
kawazaki said:
For all the people saying that they are disappointed by PN.COM,
Here is the response from the writer:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The tool obviously doesn't realise the 'hack' does not allow carte blanch access to any Marketplace software, but only to free apps.
Poor journalism. But I'm sure Anton/PN is going to get a few extra hits out of this.
the only ones who will benefit from it are pocketnow.com, obviously.
I suggest we don't give them the attention they so loudely cry for, because they will bring XDA down. They disrespect developers, not vice versa.
Whatever goes on, I don´t care at all.
Yes, I indeed was hoping that WP7 would be ported for our HD2. Unfortunately, MS and HTC both missed the chance to offer this upgrade officially. Just try to imagine if they would have done this: There is a big chance that some longtime WinMo users would move over to the new platform - just thanks to a trial possibility.
The thing is: I think 80% of all HD2 owners don´t flash their devices. Imagine the possible boost for WP7 if all those were offered to upgrade officially. Great customer satisfaction generates positive mouth-to-mouth advertising.
If they start to fight the "hack", I believe the opposite will happen: More former "core" WinMo "power users" than before will move on to Android and iOS, the first is more "open" and the second is nicely jailbroken, both offering a massive number of apps. The result for MS is not only negative mouth-to-mouth advertising (the worst scenario a company can suffer), but also loss of ROI since less potential users buy stuff from marketplace, less potential users decide to use paid "Live" services (such as XBox Gold membership, let alone maybe even new potential buyers of that gaming platform), etc.
MS could simply decide to stop giving codes for "unsupported" hardware. Then again, HD2 is so close to HD7 that they might consider this device as "compatible". If they are even more clever, they could offer a trial, just as many app providers do in the marketplace. I would actually be willing to pay a couple of bucks if I would decide to keep WP7 - which is not the fact as of today, mainly because the OS isn´t ready yet imho.