Related
I was told by my friend who works at Sprint today that they will be unlocking the GPS in Quarter 4 of this year.
She said that originally they did not unlock it as they were having issues with the hardware and software, but are prepping to unlock it soon to us.
Sorry if this has been put out there already, but thought I would share what I heard. hopeful anyway, huh?
Is this guy a reliable source of info? Or is he a rep who hears stuff through the grapevine like the rest of us? (I've heard some crazy misunderstood info coming from people who "work for sprint")
Over at ppcgeeks.com someone dissasembled their Mogul and the general conclusion was that the GPS had been disabled via hardware, although they admit they're not sure.
The rumor also was that it would be available to us with the Rev A update due to come out soon. Although no one knew for sure where this info came from. Could be someone made it up, wishful thinking.
So, yes, this rumor has been around, but we're still waiting for someone to actually confirm it.
Honestly, I'll beleive it when I see it.
Dishe said:
Is this guy a reliable source of info? Or is he a rep who hears stuff through the grapevine like the rest of us? (I've heard some crazy misunderstood info coming from people who "work for sprint")
Over at ppcgeeks.com someone dissasembled their Mogul and the general conclusion was that the GPS had been disabled via hardware, although they admit they're not sure.
The rumor also was that it would be available to us with the Rev A update due to come out soon. Although no one knew for sure where this info came from. Could be someone made it up, wishful thinking.
So, yes, this rumor has been around, but we're still waiting for someone to actually confirm it.
Honestly, I'll beleive it when I see it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This person is a software engineer at Sprint, and she said that the reason they didn't have it unlocked in the beginning was due to a hardware/software conflict, but that it will be unlocked in an upcoming ROM update. She said that Sprint had announced it somewhere internally.
I have a few contacts in sprint, I'll try verifying this tommorow
From what I understand, the Mogul has A-GPS. This is the same GPS that allows them to find you if you make an emergency call. It does not work off sattelites but rather from cell towers.
On the bright side, it shares the same Qualcomm 7200 chip that the Kaiser will use.
Some maintain that the Kaiser has built in GPS, others claim it has no satellite antenna and requires an external antenna.
Sprint originally advertised the phone as having GPS. Now that has been removed from their advertisement.
It will be ineresting to see what will happen with the evdo rev. a upgrade later this year.
rambo6 said:
From what I understand, the Mogul has A-GPS. This is the same GPS that allows them to find you if you make an emergency call. It does not work off sattelites but rather from cell towers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Exactly. The bottom line from what I understand is that the Mogul does not have the built-in hardware to do full GPS that will work with independent mapping software (Google, etc).
[RANT]This is getting a bit old - people claiming that A-GPS does not work off satellites.
Please do some research before posting this type of mis-information.
A-GPS is Assisted GPS. It uses information from the cellular network to ASSIST the GPS for faster TTFF.
And the Mogul uses a different chipset than the Kaiser. One uses the 7200, while the other 7500.[/RANT]
Ok... so now that you ranted... is it your opinion that the Mogul will or will not be able to do full GPS?
And actually.... A-GPS doesn't directly work off of the satellites. Since it takes a long time for a cell phone device to download the positioning data from the GPS satellites, what the A-GPS system does is let the A-GPS servers at the cell towers download and accumulate the data, the cell phones then talk to the A-GPS servers to get the data (which happens within seconds).
When A-GPS is enabled, would it have the possibility to work with Mobile GMaps ? Or is the Java still restricted?
Don't we have A-GPS already enabled? Isn't that the little GPS icon in the phone dialer? I know I have the option to turn it off/on in the phone settings just like all other agps handsets.
If something is going to be "enabled" with a new update, that means it will most likely be real standalone GPS.
TC1, no one knows that for sure. It was speculated.
I AM POSTING THIS FOR THE LAST TIME
The Mogul has the Qualcomm msm7500 as its cpu. BUILT INTO the cpu is the gpsone chipset. This is able to achieve AGPS as well as GPS. It runs in 4 different modes. To have the serial link to work with applications the chipset must be run in standalone mode.
It is on the damn phone as it is part of the cpu! It is currently not in standalone mode so there is no way to access the chip. The only true thing up in the air is whether or not the phone can obtain a satellite lock in standalone mode.
Dishe said:
Don't we have A-GPS already enabled? Isn't that the little GPS icon in the phone dialer? I know I have the option to turn it off/on in the phone settings just like all other agps handsets.
If something is going to be "enabled" with a new update, that means it will most likely be real standalone GPS.
TC1, no one knows that for sure. It was speculated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Correct, like almost every modern cell phone, A-GPS is enabled. There is no debate there.
I agree with you regarding speculation on the "stand-alone GPS" aspect. I've never seen definitive info from HTC that says yes or no on this subject. If there is real info regarding this, some links would be nice.
HTC's site says:
It is widely rumored that this phone has a GPS chip that has been disabled. Will there be a hack or workaround to enable GPS capabilities?
Answer: Not likely, it is AGPS which requires a connected call to get data location.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Sonix6 said:
HTC's site says:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
thats from their wiki site, so its not necessarily true
/me keeps fingers crossed
This would be good news. I'll be keeping my fingers crossed for this.
gpsone (in most all msm chipsets including kaiser and mogul):
How gpsOne Works:
The gpsOne technology functions in four different modes of operation. Chosen automatically or specified by software, the
four modes are Standalone GPS, Mobile Station (MS)-based, MS-assisted and MS-assisted/Hybrid. In the A-GPS modes,
gpsOne technology utilizes assistance data from a location server in the wireless network in combination with A-GPS circuitry
and software in the wireless device.
Note: The common term used by standards bodies for the handset/terminal device in CDMA2000 is "Mobile Station" (MS) and in WCDMA (UMTS)/GPRS/GSM/HSDPA/EDGE is
“User Equipment” (UE). For simplicity in this document, references to the handset/terminal will be "MS," but this use implies both MS and UE.
Standalone GPS: The GPS receiver calculates a position without using any assistance data and without a connection to
the wireless network.
MS-Based: The GPS receiver calculates the position using assistance data from a location server to increase cold-start
sensitivity and reduce the start time for an initial position calculation.
MS-Assisted: The GPS receiver uses assistance data from a location server to make measurements related to its distance
from the GPS satellites, then sends this information to the location server where the position is calculated. This mode also
increases cold start sensitivity and reduces the start time for an initial position calculation.
MS-Assisted/Hybrid: Wireless network information is added to GPS measurements as part of the position calculation by
the location server, integrating the relative strengths of GPS information and available wireless network location information
for increased positioning reliability in difficult GPS environments.
In assisted operation, a gpsOne-enabled handset receives
a small “assistance data” message from a network location
server using standardized protocols
• The handset then reads information from GPS satellites to
measure its distance from all the satellites it can see (called
“ranging” information).
• The handset then uses this ranging information to create a
position “fix,” or sends the ranging information back to the
server where it can be combined with network information
to produce an even better fix.
• gpsOne also operates in Standalone mode, without requiring
any assistance data from the network
straight from the gpsOne document.
interesting indeed... question is, will Sprint release firmware that allows it to run in standalone mode?
I suppose the truth is, even if it doesn't, someone can figure out how to enable it with some sort of hack eventually since its just software controlled according to this document.
has anyone played with this reg key?
\HKCU\ControlPanel\PhoneExtendFunction\CDMA\GPSOneSetting = 0
Edit: the value does not contain a space between "GPSOne" and "Setting", but vbulletin modifies my text when i post....
I don't know if this info helps or not... I spoke to a HTC TS and they told me the 6800 has GPS but is sprint decision to enable it or not. He also told me that it can be unlock but sprint is the only one with the code and he can not provide me with that info.
New poster old reader, may be found some info.
I found Many info that may me can help somebodies about the msm 7500 (gpsOne technologie)...It is hard to know what to believe 'cause half/half
people say that this is impossible, and the other half say that gonna happen soon. I think that we should make our own idea by our own knowledge . I found many topic on many forum (htc, gpsunderground,here...ask me if interressed) One Qualcomm offical site i've got pdf about msm chips, and gpsOne tech... (Snap track location service for gpsOne may be a good start point to invest)
Interessing link's:
FCC test repport for tita100 (titan) (That include plane mode settings):
https://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/oetcf/eas...lledFromFrame=N&application_id=391628&fcc_id=
Here it seem to be codes:
http://www.wlt.net.cn/index0/FD-800/pdf/CNI FD-800 gpsOne Menual ver1 0_0117.pdf
Similar:
http://www.wlt.net.cn/index0/FD-800/pdf/FD-800_Application_Guide ver1 0(1).pdf
And found other about SDK from Qualcomm API's seem to be aivalaible to third party dev. Also seem to be hard to be registred as dev. But hope...
And if internal budies have code it is just a time question before a solution.
So i wish that i'm not making more mistake or false info...if tell me.
And for gps freak who will tell that different anthenna needed, diffrent frequencies for GPS...see the end of the document FD-800 manual (2nd link).
So thank for this helpfull forum, forgive my poor english expression, and lack of programming knoledge , my is disignig pcb, and electrical pannels, but not to programme them's( not enough )...
Why does Google Map tell me that I'm 1000m from my current location? It's useless if I need street directions.
a_ok2me said:
Why does Google Map tell me that I'm 1000m from my current location? It's useless if I need street directions.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is strange. I have the same problem with my Rhodium. My HD2 has the best GPS I have ever owned.
I use Waze not Google maps though. Last night I was on the highest bridge of a multi road exchange and took a 90 degree turn that confuses every GPS device I have ever used but this time Waze made the turn with me.
Are you using the stock ROM?
Does Google maps support GPS?
Snarksneeze said:
This is strange. I have the same problem with my Rhodium. My HD2 has the best GPS I have ever owned.
I use Waze not Google maps though. Last night I was on the highest bridge of a multi road exchange and took a 90 degree turn that confuses every GPS device I have ever used but this time Waze made the turn with me.
Are you using the stock ROM?
Does Google maps support GPS?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well...I no longer have the hd2 because it does not pick up 3G 95% of the time and it can't find a GPS satellite. Google Map supports GPS. It was also stock ROM. I must have done a million hard resets. Basically, it didn't work for $450 + $50 tax.
Did you even turn on the GPS option in Google maps? If not then it was finding your location throught GPRS which is triangulation from cell towers.
I have both a Fuze and HD2 and both work just fine for me. Also when was the last time you tried runner Quick GPS to update the tracking files?
Google Maps, by default, won't connect with GPS, but find your estimates location from cell towers. that's why you're always a little off.
press menu and use GPS, and the GPS will track your location accurately from there on.
rickyoon.vegas said:
Google Maps, by default, won't connect with GPS, but find your estimates location from cell towers. that's why you're always a little off.
press menu and use GPS, and the GPS will track your location accurately from there on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Close but the newer version is Menu/Options/GPS
Wil Badger said:
Did you even turn on the GPS option in Google maps? If not then it was finding your location throught GPRS which is triangulation from cell towers.
I have both a Fuze and HD2 and both work just fine for me. Also when was the last time you tried runner Quick GPS to update the tracking files?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
rickyoon.vegas said:
Google Maps, by default, won't connect with GPS, but find your estimates location from cell towers. that's why you're always a little off.
press menu and use GPS, and the GPS will track your location accurately from there on.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes I turned on the Google GPS option. It just tries to find a tower forever, but never finds anything. I also ran Quick GPS after the Google GPS option didn't work. Similarly, I rarely ever get 3G. But, stick in my sim card to my old phone and everything is fine.
I think there is a big issue with the HD2.
a_ok2me said:
Yes I turned on the Google GPS option. It just tries to find a tower forever, but never finds anything. I also ran Quick GPS after the Google GPS option didn't work. Similarly, I rarely ever get 3G. But, stick in my sim card to my old phone and everything is fine.
I think there is a big issue with the HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have read that leather cases have something to do with this sometimes. Are you using one?
MirasHD2 said:
I have read that leather cases have something to do with this sometimes. Are you using one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes & no. Yes, I do when I'm on the road. But, no because I would try it at home - without any case - to see if it's accurate but it can't pick up any satellites.
I was only able to get a reading of my home position the first 2 days of owning it.
a_ok2me said:
I think there is a big issue with the HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think you mean with your particular HD2. Because as I said before, I've never had a better GPS device... ever. Any GPS device that can actually follow me on a 90-degree turn without missing a beat is just lightyears beyond anything else I've found so far.
Even with stock ROM there could be a number of things causing trouble:
You could have a bad phone. It happens. Manufacturer's defects will occur in even the best runs, that's why there are warranties to cover it.
Something may be interfering with your GPS receiver. Even if other devices perform flawlessly in the same location in your vehicle, one device may be more succeptible to radio interference than others.
You could have battery issues. A bad battery can cause all sorts of problems. When your phone can't get a good cell reception, it just boosts juice to the hardware, which in turn drains your battery faster. A bad battery just can't keep up. Again, this is why there are warranties.
Please don't just assume that the HD2 is a bad phone just because you had problems with yours. I've heard of people curse a phone maker because they got two or three bad phones in a row. The thing to remember is that when a plant makes a bad batch, the entire shift's production could easily be sent to the same area, meaning that multiple returns for the same issue from one customer are not unheard of.
I would return it and get a replacement. It may take a few times of swapping around, but you should get things worked out. Trust me, this is the best phone on the market today. Hands down.
#ListMaster
Snarksneeze said:
I think you mean with your particular HD2. Because as I said before, I've never had a better GPS device... ever.
Please don't just assume that the HD2 is a bad phone just because you had problems with yours. I've heard of people curse a phone maker because they got two or three bad phones in a row.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well...conversely, you can't assume the other direction because many, not only my phone, can't get 3G. Further, my phone can't pick up satellites even after many hard resets and no non-OEM apps installed. As I keep on reading threads, it tells me the HD2 is poor with reception. There's something to be said about this.
After selling my phone, I'm tempted to buy another one. But I'll hold out for awhile as more feedbacks come in.
MirasHD2 said:
I have read that leather cases have something to do with this sometimes. Are you using one?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
[OFF-TOPIC] Congratulations on your 100th post! You're a Senior Member now [/OFF-TOPIC]
a_ok2me said:
Well...conversely, you can't assume the other direction because many, not only my phone, can't get 3G. Further, my phone can't pick up satellites even after many hard resets and no non-OEM apps installed. As I keep on reading threads, it tells me the HD2 is poor with reception. There's something to be said about this.
After selling my phone, I'm tempted to buy another one. But I'll hold out for awhile as more feedbacks come in.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The lack of 3G can't be blamed on the phone, you know. I live in the center of Austin, TX and my 3G is constant. I've driven 100 miles south to a small community there and couldn't get anything higher than Edge.
Also, T-Mobile won't kick you from a tower that doesn't belong to them. At least, I've never been able to catch them doing it. I always get the closest tower and best reception possible. Problem is, T-Mobile simply doesn't have enough money to ensure that every corner of every city has third-generation towers.
This is the same gripe coming from iPhone users; they say that AT&T just isn't investing enough in putting out more towers.
Snarksneeze said:
The lack of 3G can't be blamed on the phone, you know.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, but the thing is - as I originally mentioned - I get 3G on my BlueAngel using the same sim card. Without this test, I would not have been able to point my finger at the HD2. The BlueAngel is something like the first PDA/phone ever and I still get 3G with it. I can't believe PDA technology has not advanced so much until now that I'm still using it after all these years.
a_ok2me said:
Yeah, but the thing is - as I originally mentioned - I get 3G on my BlueAngel using the same sim card. Without this test, I would not have been able to point my finger at the HD2. The BlueAngel is something like the first PDA/phone ever and I still get 3G with it. I can't believe PDA technology has not advanced so much until now that I'm still using it after all these years.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I see. Well, I certainly can't say what the problem is. As I said before, you may have just gotten a bad phone, which would suck but it does happen.
I've never dropped 3G here in Austin since I've gotten my HD2 in. Of course, the icon switches between [3] and [H] all the time, but it won't drop to [E] unless I manually turn off the "Data connection" toggle under Settings->Comm Manager.
Sorry but, our GPS on our Hd2 only works when in 3g? Just wondering because im on Edge at home and it dont work. havent tried in 3g coverage yet though.
starkall said:
Sorry but, our GPS on our Hd2 only works when in 3g? Just wondering because im on Edge at home and it dont work. havent tried in 3g coverage yet though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don't know. I was associating poor 3G reception with my phone's inability to find a satellite.
i live in long beach, ca and my phone finds gps even on edge. It also connects to 3g and has a stable connection. try replacing ur phone by using ur warranty.
starkall said:
Sorry but, our GPS on our Hd2 only works when in 3g? Just wondering because im on Edge at home and it dont work. havent tried in 3g coverage yet though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, GPS has nothing to do with 3g or your cellular connection. The GPS will work even if you have no sim card in and don't use it as a phone.
Also, I have to say, the GPS on my HD2 is one of the best I've used. I've had 4 other GPS enabled phones, 2 handheld standalone GPS devices, and 3 different bluetooth gps devices and the HD2 is definitely as good or better than all of them. I was very impressed... never thought a phone could work so well with gps.
google maps
GPS CONNECTION ERROR??!
am i the only one ?
No GPS receiver was found maake sure you have a gps receiver (built in or bluetooth that is turned on and configured towork with google maps for mobile. ??
UMM? is this so that i can bluetooth a tomtom or something like that and use their satelites ? cuz i ran quick gps why wouldnt gmaps use that ? my location is a little off but i am inside a brick apartment building. and its only off several blocks?
any way to configure gps to gmaps ?
****************************************************************
"EDIT" UPDATE (7 oct. 2010)
Well you dont need to go actually much further then this first post!
Things got out of context over here, furthermore I decided to give
my external gps receiver a break and run some more tests with
the internal one of my SGS.
And the results I got were much better than any
other phone I tested before. Except the ones with a build-in SirfstarIII chipset.
If you have Gps issues,Just move on to this thread:
2nd edit (20 Oct, 2010): That thread was removed without any warning or explanation so I posted the videos in another thread:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=8903056#post8903056
END EDIT
RCinFLA said:
Like to share my experience as cellphone chipset designer and my dealing with various parties involved with GPS in phones.
Many of the issues are caused by business interests involved and there are quite a few parties plying to control location based services revenue stream.
SUPL, secure user plane protocol AGPS was created by network operators interest in mine, with the objective of putting them in the controlling position when it comes to extracting revenue from location based applications on their network.
Control plane AGPS is a general system where network operator independent entities can create a assist server along with possible services offering. They can encrypt their access to allow only subcribed (paying) users to access their service. The network operators has little control over this scheme.
With SUPL, in most cases, network operators outsource the location server function. Network operator hold location of their cell tower, as a total database, in close confidence. The network tower locations are also very dynamic over time. I believe the AGPS contractors don't get reliable and timely updates from the network operators.
Then there are third party business like 'Skyhook' which is trying to work around the network operator roadblocks by establishing a 'ponzi scheme' server database. If your phone has a good GPS location lock and detects a WiFi network, Skyhook's background app will have your phone send a message to their server reporting the SSID of the WiFi and its location. They then sell their server AGPS service to other companies, like Motorola, for inclusion in their phone software. Motorola may run into conflict with network operators. A network operator might refuse to buy a Motorola phone model with Skyhook installed on it. I noticed from the Captivate forum that the ATT version of Galaxy S has Skyhook capability.
Google is the 900 pound gorilla and is trying to wrestle control of location based services from network operators.
Finally there are the GPS chip manufacturers. Almost all of them have an AGPS server scheme of their own and try to promote it. The frontend processing (up to recovery of raw 50 bps satellite data) has unique hardware and firmware that are considered proprietary by the GPS chip manufacturer. In most cases a phone manufacturers like Samsung or Motorola are not allowed to have the software source code for this firmware or information on the actual interface protocol to the GPS chip. They are given a bundled binary file that the phone manufacturer software just dumps to the GPS chip at startup.
It is now up to the phone manufacturer to implement the GPS chip and antenna systems (along with WiFI, Bluetooth, Near Field Comm, and multi-band cellular) and provide software interfaces and drivers necessary to run the GPS function.
For size and cost reasons most recent GPS chips rely on the main application processor within the phone to actually do the GPS fix calculations. The software for this is provided by the GPS chip supplier but it must be coordinated with the particular applications processor chip used by the phone. It must share processing time slicing with the apps processor and work with operating system software resources such as RAM and ROM management running on the phone.
This is the first obsticle as most of the GPS chip suppliers have little expertise in the OS's that may be used (like Android or Symbian). The phone manufacturer usually has to provide help to create and debug the GPS driver software but the drivers are responsible/owned by the GPS chip supplier. There can be unique hardware/software interfaces that must be dealt with, like providing GPS TCXO calibration and cellular corrected frequency timebase to the GPS chip.
Then there is the OS's GPS interface. There can be translation software layers involved here. One such interface is based on GPS NMEA protocol but with additional hooks for things unique to phone operation like battery saver power strobing, and the complicated Secure User Plane or Control plane interface.
The AGPS system design landscape is litered with intellectual properties (patents) by many parties. Qualcomm is a dominate player here since their aquistion of SnapTrak company years ago. Royalties are paid to Qualcomm for every WCDMA phone sold, not only in AGPS area, but on basic CDMA patents used in a UMTS (Wideband CDMA) phones.
Now as to Samsung Galaxy S implementation of Broadcom GPS.
I think there is a lot of evidence that Samsung had early issues with the GPS antenna contact hardware. This has probably been corrected on recently manufactured phones.
I think the firmware supplied by Broadcom has the bandwidth of the correlators tighted down to provide greater sensitivity. This is great as long as there is a very good AGPS system to provide initial satellite ephemeris data. Without a good AGPS network providing satellite information the initial search and lock can take a very long time with narrow bandwidth frequency bins.
I have not seen evidence with my experience that my two Vibrants are receiving any reliable AGPS information from the T-Mobile network. They do seem to get rough Almanac satellite info from Google or other third party apps. These may be based on WiFi detection more then T-Mobile cell tower locations.
In LBStest I noticed that GPS Operational Mode has been set to 'Standalone'. I interpret this to mean AGPS is deactived. I don't see any difference when I switch to MS based assist, and clear the GPS saved memory to prevent it from prejudicing time to first fix lock test. Switching SUPL server to supl.google.com and port 7276 (with MS based operational setting) just seems to make my phone lockup for short periods of time.
Once phone does get full lock on satellites its performance is quite good. (my two Vibrant's were purchased in early Feb 2011). It rivals my Garmin SiRFstar III based GPS unit in locked on sensitivity while inside a building.
I think the AGPS system issues will get worked out over time.
The Qualcomm based CDMA2000 systems (like Verizon) will likely have better initial coordination on AGPS system operation. CDMA2000 also provides network timebase directly compatible with GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
*******************************************************************
All this nagging about GPS.....that it is not working in many devices and it's working in other many.....and of course I am talking about those ones who still would go for ONLINE gps navigation.....
In my humble opinion, what you guys should be asking yourselfs and the big corporations is, why nowadays, 99% of the smartphones(so not just sgs), even the most expensive ones are build with weak, less capable internal gps receivers, forcing users to go online(celular network /a-gps) or using external bluetooth gps receivers to get stable satellite fixes that means stable navigation.
Years ago, many of the first smartphones came with sirfstar chipsets or alike , so once again, why not now? That's the question that should not be ignored or forgotten.
A friend of mine, that would not dare to pay more than a 100 box for a phone, bought an ancient ETEN device on a sale for 40 box with that old windows mobile 5 and guess what...the internal gps get fast fixes just like any standalone gps device because it got the same sirfstarIII chipset
Why the heck, the expensive so called high-end smartphones of today are not build with better gps chipsets? Why A-gps? So we are forced to get data accounts?
And what happens when I want to navigate abroad? Roaming?
For data transfer and internet I use wifi; I have it at home and I find hotspots everywhere...I will save those extra 120 euros(or more) per year (data account costs)
And nobody will force me to get one(internet/data account); not even for gps navigation that I so much use..
I use gps navigation only offline, using a external bluetooth device on a daily basis and, many times abroad; it works like a charm on my SGS; and I am talking about serious GPS car navigation software like iGo, Sygic, Navigon etc. .
Don't even use Google maps or alike.
I cannot tell you how my sgs is doing on online navigation, I dont have a data account so I wont even try it.
But once Samsung get this online gps navigation thing fixed, you guys should concentrate your energy on the real issue:
The A-gps scam
And for all the corporations out there: Just deliver a device with a capable gps chipset and you will sell millions..
And for all the users out there: Just get a good compact external bluetooth gps receiver and stop nagging....
Thanks to 3rd party developers, the Android OS on my SGS can be "fooled" and I can connect any navigation software to my bluetooth gps receiver threw programs like Bluetooth Gps Mouse Unlimited and Gps Provider.
I do have to " allow mock locations" at settings first...
« »
¿Ein? You don need data to get GPS fix, A-GPS is only an aid to get faster fixes
I thtink you're a littel misinformed
LOL.. o boy.. the AGPS is to help say if your indoors so you can get a faster lock... the phone will work without it.
Ummm I can see why you would think what you think, but I do believe you are wrong.
Firstly: as far as I'm aware, the SGS has the same GPS chip as the latest TomTom standalone unit.
Secondly: I guess AGPS is a data feature, it uses the triangulation of cell towers and pulls information to assist a sat lock, but it is not really a different way of using GPS. Ultimately you still need to get a sat lock to use a GPS App.
So it may speed up this lock, but it won't replace it. It just means it'll take you a little longer to get a sat lock than without it.
So you have the choice use it or don;t use it, no-one is forcing you to use data.
Logicalstep
Oletros said:
¿Ein? You don need data to get GPS fix, A-GPS is only an aid to get faster fixes
I thtink you're a littel misinformed
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Lol those online translators dont work that smoothly...
I don't need a data/internet account to use celular networks aid, that means a-gps.That mean going online via 3g or 2g...
But IF I don.t have a data/internet account added to my phone subscription, my phone costs will be much higher depending on my use....
You are missing the point anyway...
betoNL said:
Lol those online translators dont work that smoothly...
I don't need a data/internet account to use celular networks aid, that means a-gps.That mean going online via 3g or 2g...
But IF I don.t have a data/internet account added to my phone subscription, my phone costs will be much higher depending on my use....
You are missing the point anyway...
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Click to collapse
No, you're missing the point, you don't need any kind of data connection to use GPS, you can use it offline
Exactly...already the first line of Wikipedia says it: "Assisted GPS, generally abbreviated as A-GPS, is a system which can improve the startup performance of a GPS satellite-based positioning system."
There is, however, a related issue w/r/t A-GPS and a data account. Back on WinMo, I could download the ephemeris data to speed up the GPS fix for one week in advance (I think it was called QuickGPS or something on my HTC TouchHD, also had sth. like it on an old Eten). This allowed you to get a quick fix for said week, even without a data connection. Android, on the other hand, seems to download this data on the fly - meaning that if you don't have a data account you will experience a slow fix until your almanac has been filled "naturally" by the satellites you're seeing. I experienced that while on vacation this year without a roaming data contract - it took me a good 3-5 minutes to get the first fix and it was good from there on (well, as good as the SGS GPS gets ). I'd love to have some tool that does exactly what QuickGPS did, but I am not aware of anything like it.
TriC_101 said:
LOL.. o boy.. the AGPS is to help say if your indoors so you can get a faster lock... the phone will work without it.
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Click to collapse
I have always smile in my face when someone thinks he can get a lock indoors..
Yes in a cartoon box you can. Not in real building I'm afraid.
And for all those who think SGS's GPS is usable without A.
Try it.
You will see.
Dont post things you just caught on wikipedia.
xan said:
I have always smile in my face when someone thinks he can get a lock indoors..
Yes in a cartoon box you can. Not in real building I'm afraid.
And for all those who think SGS's GPS is usable without A.
Try it.
You will see.
Dont post things you just caught on wikipedia.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I can get a lock on 6-7 Sat no problem inside.... and so can lots of others.. don't know what your doing wrong but its not hard to get a lock inside.
Pics or it didnt happen
seems you all are little misinformed as to how the gps on android specifically sgs works. It is actually three systems at work here. Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast).then you have agps that downloads preloads data regarding satellite location in regards to your position via network instead of downloading same data directly from satellite thereby saving time. Both these can be used without checking network location in settings so to recap if your network location is unchecked you are still using agps as long as you have network connection (data connection that is).and samsungs system for agps being better than others cause it downloads data for while week as opposed to others downloading data everyone gps is turned on. Third level is network triangulation via cell towers that gets you that instant lock at the cost of accuracy useful mainly to let apps get your general location without having to engage real gps thereby saving power as well as give maps a chance to start calculating route while gps is still getting lock therefore appearing to operate faster.
Idan73 said:
Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast)
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Click to collapse
Standalone gps's got their batterys, and thus they start "warm".
Thing is, standalone SRIF3/4 gps gets a warm lock without any AGPS nor network triangulation within 5-10 seconds. SGS (and bunch of top-of-the pack devices) cant come even close to that.
the GPS on the SGS works fine offline
i don't even have data on when going on long road trips
you just need an offline GPS software with maps, like CoPilot or some other one you like
xan said:
Standalone gps's got their batterys, and thus they start "warm".
Thing is, standalone SRIF3/4 gps gets a warm lock without any AGPS nor network triangulation within 5-10 seconds. SGS (and bunch of top-of-the pack devices) cant come even close to that.
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Click to collapse
Sure they do. Sgs warm lock is 5 to 10 seconds as well. To test get the lock first then turn of data and network lock then start gps.restart of the phone same as restart of the standalone counts as a cold boot and takes about minute.
xan said:
Pics or it didnt happen
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here ya go.... I don't have to prove anything just look on youtube.. This is the phone on for just 10sec.. if I had waited it would get down to about 10 feet... this pic was taken in a room where I get the lowest signal. and I live in a Condo with 2 foot concrete walls.. I don't have a digital camera.. this was taken with my old Samsung dumb phone.. but it does prove you can get a lock inside no problem.. also if i'm in a house I can get 6-7 sats to lock in the condo 5 at the most in that room.
only 3 sats and maybe the walls are thin
Polarfuchs said:
only 3 sats and maybe the walls are thin
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Click to collapse
LOL Trust me the walls and not thin.. i'm on the 10th floor of a 25 floor Condo complex. I get alot more signal is a house.. Now my X10 can get about 7 Sats locked in the same room. and down to 5 feet. but the point was you can get a lock inside..
I'll try it.
I live in a 3 stories house at ground floor. The shutters are down and I'm 1 meter away from the windows.
After 3 Minutes I get 5 sats in view but none used.
I'll hang on.
Even after 10 Minutes I only have 5 satellites in View and zero in Use.
So no fix for me.
The numbers on top of the bars are from 15 to 25.
Logicalstep said:
Ummm I can see why you would think what you think, but I do believe you are wrong.
Firstly: as far as I'm aware, the SGS has the same GPS chip as the latest TomTom standalone unit.
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Click to collapse
Most of Tomtom devices got a SiRFstarIII™ GPS chipset
If the GS got such one the amount of GPS threads in this Forum would be reduced considerably
What is your awareness based on?
Oletros said:
No, you're missing the point, you don't need any kind of data connection to use GPS, you can use it offline
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Idan73 said:
seems you all are little misinformed as to how the gps on android specifically sgs works. It is actually three systems at work here. Gps standalone without gprs and cell triangulation which gets lock within a minute same as standalone bluetooth units (they also take up to a minute from cold boot but because generally it is plugged in the car lighter and always on people think its blazing fast).then you have agps that downloads preloads data regarding satellite location in regards to your position via network instead of downloading same data directly from satellite thereby saving time. Both these can be used without checking network location in settings so to recap if your network location is unchecked you are still using agps as long as you have network connection (data connection that is).and samsungs system for agps being better than others cause it downloads data for while week as opposed to others downloading data everyone gps is turned on. Third level is network triangulation via cell towers that gets you that instant lock at the cost of accuracy useful mainly to let apps get your general location without having to engage real gps thereby saving power as well as give maps a chance to start calculating route while gps is still getting lock therefore appearing to operate faster.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL... Lets put things in perspective :
1) Wich car navigation software do you use
2) when you UNcheck wireless networks =a-gps(in location and security) and you CHECk "use GPS satellites = build-in gps receiver and then you go outside, you start your car navigation software in you gs( taking into consideration that you have the righ map installed) how long does it take to get a fix so you can start driving?
3) Do you know the difference between a cold and warm start? Why the heck some of you mention car lighters????
Please just answer me these 3 questions and meanwhile I will post some educative information
For you guys who already have the xoom please chime in.
I have a IPAD (dont judge me lol) and the "GPS" does not work while airborne; this is a big deal for me as i am a pilot.
Does the xoom gps only work when in cellphone range like the ipad or does it have a no kidding GPS chip?
On a side not i have no clue how apple gets away with selling the ipad as having GPS when it clearly is not TRUE GPS.
Since the wifi version will contain GPS as well, my guess is that it should work. I'll let you know once I get it in hand today.
When you look up on the Motorola website it states "aGPS" which is assisted GPS. IMO this means it uses regular GPS and other signals in addition. How that translates to airborne IDK. But surely the XOOM shouldn't be used for airplane navigation There's probably an iPad app for that ROFL
pyrator said:
For you guys who already have the xoom please chime in.
I have a IPAD (dont judge me lol) and the "GPS" does not work while airborne; this is a big deal for me as i am a pilot.
Does the xoom gps only work when in cellphone range like the ipad or does it have a no kidding GPS chip?
On a side not i have no clue how apple gets away with selling the ipad as having GPS when it clearly is not TRUE GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Xoom has the same gps. The chip works fine for following without a cell/wifi connection. To get actually directions you have to have a connection.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
its got its own gps chip. and it locks on instantly. and i mean instant. accurate to 4 meters according to google maps.
the only problem you would run into are the maps.
you would need the maps saved on the xoom. google maps can and does cache maps while on wifi, but if you deviate off the set path during the trip you won't be able to load any additional maps during the trip unless you can get a wifi or data connection.
so you would need a gps app that stores the maps on the device if you want it to function like a standard gps. i know there are some for the iphone, but i haven't looked into android 3rd party gps apps.
I think it depends on what you want to use it for. If you want google maps, then the maps program requires data use to show your location on the map. If you simply want Longitude and Latitude, then I'm sure you can get that with the GPS chip in the Xoom.
I've got the Xoom, and the GPS is a true GPS, not relying on cell towers or wifi to determine location. However, I don't know how well GPS works in a plane since I've never tried using a GPS device in a plane (I thought that wasn't allowed?)
Again, unless you have maps STORED on your device, data access is needed to download the maps in real time. Applications like TomTom store the maps on your device, but require an additional and substantial fee.
bwcorvus said:
Xoom has the same gps. The chip works fine for following without a cell/wifi connection. To get actually directions you have to have a connection.
Sent from my PC36100 using Tapatalk
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
so what can you do with the gps chip with no connection?
is there anway to save a preloaded map and use your gps chip to locate yourself on the previously saved map?
EDIT: So then theoretically I can dev an app that will have maps saved on the phone for use with no signal?
You should be able to get an app that gives you the GPS coordinates. Everything else is based of stored data, like others mentioned.
RadDudeTommy said:
so what can you do with the gps chip with no connection?
is there anway to save a preloaded map and use your gps chip to locate yourself on the previously saved map?
EDIT: So then theoretically I can dev an app that will have maps saved on the phone for use with no signal?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Uhmm, theoretically sure, but good luck getting the maps you're going to need, and starting from scratch would be hella painful. You would be better off purchasing a stand alone application with the maps. They usually run around $100, but I'm not sure what ones are available for Android.
They aren't normal maps, they're maps that contain location data, gps coordinates, etc.
Again, you can use a GPS app to pull your coordinates. Just do that and use a paper map to determine where you are? hehe
you might check out http://www.mapdroyd.com/
pyrator said:
For you guys who already have the xoom please chime in.
I have a IPAD (dont judge me lol) and the "GPS" does not work while airborne; this is a big deal for me as i am a pilot.
Does the xoom gps only work when in cellphone range like the ipad or does it have a no kidding GPS chip?
On a side not i have no clue how apple gets away with selling the ipad as having GPS when it clearly is not TRUE GPS.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You really want to know why you can't use the GPS (of your mobile device) while you're flying?
You're not a commercial pilot I hope!
I'm sorry I'm just having a hard time picturing my Continental Airlines pilot asking for directions from texas to california because he forgot his Ipad at home.
I know the app AlpineQuest uses maps that you yourself create from a list of already available maps and then you load them onto your device and select them from the application. Its primarily for hiking since some terrain does not offer a 3g signal. But I recommend you check that out.
Does you tried IGO ???
(propably no plane support )
Thanx
ok got my answer thank you!
Also the GPS on a device will not interfere with any aircraft electronics and is 100% ok during flight. AKA when not flying and riding along everyday for 4+ hours with nothing to do.
cwizardtx said:
You really want to know why you can't use the GPS (of your mobile device) while you're flying?
You're not a commercial pilot I hope!
I'm sorry I'm just having a hard time picturing my Continental Airlines pilot asking for directions from texas to california because he forgot his Ipad at home.
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Click to collapse
Actually I am a FAA certified Commercial pilot, i have a degree from Embry-Riddle in Professional Aeronautics with dual minors in safety and business, over 275 combat hours alone just here in Afghanistan, so no that does not automatically mean you fly for the airlines.
Also you cannot use an unapproved system for your primary means of navigation. The only GPS you may use is an IFR approved unit with a current database. Also if you choose to go that route you must have a backup (VOR, NDB, etc).
See:
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2011/02/faa-ipad/
http://www.wired.com/autopia/2010/06/new-airplane-should-motivate-apple-fanboys-to-be-pilots/
(just needs to be android not ipad)
The reason i ask is because when im not flying aka in the back aka a passenger, im bored and would like to be able to see where i am at on a map.
But thank you for contributing nothing to this post other than to launch a personnel attack against my creditability.
Rant over:
To everyone else who actually contributed to the post THANK YOU! I will try probably all of those apps lol. I just wish there was a FalconView port for android (open source DoD app designed for windows).
may it's out of civilian range, see en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Global_Positioning_System#Restrictions_on_civilian_use
Hi pyrator,
I too am a pilot (mind you, not FAA but on the other side of the pond) and I'm also very interested in using Android tabs for aviation.
Of course not IFR, but as a backup information in VFR should the Garmin fail (never did so far)
It would be very interesting to find out what the real capabilities of the onboard sensors are.
Take the gyro for example: if it doesn't drift, it might be an interesting source for a poor man's EADI (attitude indicator) should your vacuum pump quit. It all depends if it is influenced by accelerated flight (I've looked at a few apps that wanted to simulate an AI but they relied on the accelerometers and, in a coordinated turn, you got zilch)
I'm a programmer so I guess writing an application would be an option, but its much more fun if you're not alone....
What do you think?
GPS in the Xoom is standalone. It works with wifi and 3g off. I installed copilot and it works as well as all the tomtoms and garmins that I have used. U get a beautiful 10 inch gps.
Agps is based on cellular signals.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA Premium App
1. Non-commercial VFR (in the US) you can use anything you want. You don't even need a chart. If you have a chart, it must be current. This may apply to map data.
2. The prohibition against using Cell Phones, etc while flying (in the US) is not a FAA rule but a FCC rule. If your 3G unit is transmitting from a high altitude the Cell(s) on the ground have a hard time figuring out which cell you're in.
3. As a Pax aloft, put the Xoom in airplane mode (turns off the 3G) after you've loaded up map data for your intended area and (fuselage skin notwithstanding) you should be able to follow along just fine. Keeping the unit near a window may be necessary.
GPS in my xoom does not work without wifi.
I have read the threads and I am unable to make it work without wifi like driving. I have the maps incache, but the GPS signal does not show. The ipad does because I have use it multiple times. What to do. Many hours wasted.
My two Wear watches (Sony Smartwatch 3 and Casio Pro Trek WSD-F20) both have built-in GPS.
I have been using Google Fit to track my runs, and so far the experience with built-in GPS has been hit and miss.
The GPS won't lock fast enough without my phone around, or it will lock inconsistenly. There was even a time with my Casio where the GPS locks only after I finished my run.
For the Casio, the built-in apps like the Location Memory seems to lock the GPS pretty consistently when off the phone.
Can't really test it with the Smartwatch 3 though...
Anyone else having issues with built-in GPS locking too?
inscythe said:
My two Wear watches (Sony Smartwatch 3 and Casio Pro Trek WSD-F20) both have built-in GPS.
I have been using Google Fit to track my runs, and so far the experience with built-in GPS has been hit and miss.
The GPS won't lock fast enough without my phone around, or it will lock inconsistenly. There was even a time with my Casio where the GPS locks only after I finished my run.
For the Casio, the built-in apps like the Location Memory seems to lock the GPS pretty consistently when off the phone.
Can't really test it with the Smartwatch 3 though...
Anyone else having issues with built-in GPS locking too?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have an Urbane 2nd Edition and I always use the app 'Wear GPS' to get a lock first before switching to ghostracer to record runs. It will show the satellites in the area and how many are locked. Not sure if it will help, but could try it. I get a lock within seconds but I also have LTE activated and paired to the phone through cell data so that may help me with assisted GPS data.
mward1995 said:
I have an Urbane 2nd Edition and I always use the app 'Wear GPS' to get a lock first before switching to ghostracer to record runs. It will show the satellites in the area and how many are locked. Not sure if it will help, but could try it. I get a lock within seconds but I also have LTE activated and paired to the phone through cell data so that may help me with assisted GPS data.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the recommendation. I am still not getting a GPS lock, but it might be because I'm indoor at the moment.
I'll try again after work outdoors...
EDIT: maybe this information might help... I'm currently residing in Singapore, and Wear GPS shows me mostly US satelites. Could it be causing the slow lock times?
inscythe said:
Thanks for the recommendation. I am still not getting a GPS lock, but it might be because I'm indoor at the moment.
I'll try again after work outdoors...
EDIT: maybe this information might help... I'm currently residing in Singapore, and Wear GPS shows me mostly US satelites. Could it be causing the slow lock times?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I've used it successfully in the US and France, but can't speak for Singapore. If you swipe up and right in the app, you can 'clear data' and then swipe left to 'insert Xtra data', I think this updates satellites in the area. Not sure if you'd still need to be near your phone for this to help sInce my watch has standalone data and I haven't tried it on other watches.
mward1995 said:
I've used it successfully in the US and France, but can't speak for Singapore. If you swipe up and right in the app, you can 'clear data' and then swipe left to 'insert Xtra data', I think this updates satellites in the area. Not sure if you'd still need to be near your phone for this to help sInce my watch has standalone data and I haven't tried it on other watches.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tried it earlier with a short outdoor walk from the station to home, trying to avoid buildings.
It is indeed locking faster initially after running Wear GPS prior to running the Google Fit.
Insert XTRA data is not supported on my watch apparently, likely due to the lack of independent LTE connectivity.
However, it is still losing tracking intermittently. But I guess that is expected, as mentioned in Casio Support's FAQ:
http://support.casio.com/wsd/en/faq/
Your current location greatly influences your ability to obtain GPS information. You may experience GPS signal reception problems in the areas like the ones described below. In extreme conditions, you may not be able to receive GPS signals at all.
• Where the view of the sky above is narrow or where there is no view of the sky above
• Near trees or buildings
• Near a train station, airport, or other congested locations, or in locations where there is heavy traffic and radio wave interference
• Near railway aerial wires, high-voltage lines, TV towers, etc.
• Underground, in a tunnel, or underwater
• Indoors (Reception may be possible near a window.)
• Near wireless communication equipment or other devices that generate electromagnetic waves.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here is my conclusion:
1. The built-in GPS is very limited due to the size and various other factors (Smartwatch 3's GPS is apparently even affected by sweat).
2. Phone and LTE-enabled watches like your Urbane benefits from A-GPS, thus more consistent in GPS performance.
3. Google may have put a really generous timeout for Android Wear's location requests to the phone, making it take quite a while to fallback to built-in GPS. The Wear GPS seems to force the switch.
4. Casio and Sony probably envisioned these watches to be used in more remote locations like mountains and hiking treks. Urban environment like Singapore has way too much interference.
Well, I guess I still can't really leave my phone when I run, but at least I'm relieved that it's not really due to defective unit.
Thanks for the tip for the Wear GPS app though!
inscythe said:
......Thanks for the tip for the Wear GPS app though!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No problem. I know the developer for Wear GPS also created Ghostracer with the intent to be used with the SW3 at the time he created it. Ghostracer has an option to "Force Watch GPS" even with the phone around I believe. I've been using it for over a year. I know many use it with the SW3(ghostracer has a Google+ community), not sure what's causing the GPS problems in your area. My watch also has the sweat issue. GPS dropped sometimes when I first started using it in November 2015 when I would sweat. I've been wearing a 2" wristband under the watch during runs for the last year and GPS has been nearly perfect.
This was exactly my problem - GPS locking issue.
I have used the WSD-F20 for 3 consecutive days.
When the phone was around, it has got connected and awaited the GPS information from the phone.
When the phone was in my backpack "on the top" (meaning not buried down) and receiving the GPS signal it has locked fine and worked flawlessly. Pure joy to work with. Compared it to my handheld Garmin GPS and confirmed exactly the same data.
When the phone was totally away (left on the office desk and I was walking around the building) the watch locked itself and worked fine, too. Although when it has got the signal of the stored company WiFi, the GPS lock broke and the watch set an inaccurate position from the network!
But the real issue has shown when I was riding my bike outside and had the phone buried down in my backpack, "Faraday-shaded" with 3 cans of liquids. All the smart operation worked perfectly, BT connected, but the phone was not able to get the GPS signal at all. And I am talking about 5 hours cross-country riding of 60 km through open fields. My handheld unit on the handlebars worked as usual, no problems, so no GPS signal fall out or shading anywhere.
The Wear does not have a long timeout, I'd say it has got none at all. It just couldn't switch to the internal GPS, waiting all the time for the phone only. Which is very stupid in my opinion. Why should a device, capable of receiving signal from 3 different systems, able to lock instantly like no other, rely/wait for the phone's only GPS?
There should really be a very decent timeout period or even better, let the user choose from where he/she wants to get the signal. In the watch settings menu is only ON/OFF. With this logic the whole watch is pointless to me. Imagine using it in some freezing weather. You would not carry your phone almost outside your backpack or jacket. You will bury it deep. Or like me, riding a mountain bike, you do not want fall down with the phone exposed. You will bury it deep in your backpack. Or should I be turning my phone's GPS off? Why would I do that? Always switching or forgetting, not being able to locate it when lost... etc.
The Casio WSD-F20 is an ultimate device, the best out there for my purpose but until this thing is sorted out it's useless. I have returned it back to the seller and I'll hope for a future fix.