Related
It seems the G1 absolutely requires the owner to have a Gmail account; when you turn on the device, the initial setup wizard asks your details, and offers to create a new account if you don't have one. Also, it seems that it only supports one Google account at a time; if you want to change the signed-on account, you need to soft-reset the device.
If you add that Gmail has all your emails, tracks your browsing, recognizes people's faces in your pictures and asks you to name them... how comfortable are you knowing that your Google account is now linked to your mobile phone ?
metempsihoza said:
It seems the G1 absolutely requires the owner to have a Gmail account; when you turn on the device, the initial setup wizard asks your details, and offers to create a new account if you don't have one. Also, it seems that it only supports one Google account at a time; if you want to change the signed-on account, you need to soft-reset the device.
If you add that Gmail has all your emails, tracks your browsing, recognizes people's faces in your pictures and asks you to name them... how comfortable are you knowing that your Google account is now linked to your mobile phone ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very, if I wasn't comfortable with sharing my information with Google I never would've signed up for my first Gmail account. As for pointing out people in pictures, facebook-esque? I'm pretty sure that will be optional, so you shouldn't have to worry about that if you don't want to. I don't see the big deal, unless they use the information (and for what?).
As for browser tracking, there's already the "Iron" variant of Chrome which strips out all of the user tracking. The same will undoubtedly be done for Android, if it's not explicitly available already.
Do you ever worry about your ISP? They log every user every day in everythings they do. I guess not, same for tracing cookies, for example, just because we have to deal everyday with them... because that's how internet works. So, Google is just another provider that offers great and useful services, for free.
stocaprimo said:
Do you ever worry about your ISP? They log every user every day in everythings they do. I guess not, same for tracing cookies, for example, just because we have to deal everyday with them... because that's how internet works. So, Google is just another provider that offers great and useful services, for free.
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Click to collapse
I don't trust my isp, and I really don't trust google because of their privacy policies (do you use google maps on your mobile? have you actually read their terms of service? why do they want with recording my voice chat?. not because google offer things free doesn't mean its good when it comes to privacy.
lennie said:
I don't trust my isp, and I really don't trust google because of their privacy policies (do you use google maps on your mobile? have you actually read their terms of service? why do they want with recording my voice chat?. not because google offer things free doesn't mean its good when it comes to privacy.
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Haha if you don't trust your ISP then get off the internet, they know absolutely everything you do, and if they wanted to use any of it against you they could.
lennie said:
I don't trust my isp, and I really don't trust google because of their privacy policies (do you use google maps on your mobile? have you actually read their terms of service? why do they want with recording my voice chat?. not because google offer things free doesn't mean its good when it comes to privacy.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not sure where you saw a clause about voice chat. Perhaps if you provided a reference it would help.
It's true that just because something is free doesn't mean it's good. But that doesn't mean it's necessarily bad, either, or that things that cost money are always good. The real question is whether or not there is any malicious intent, and again there's nothing that says anything free is automatically malicious.
Part of the reason why Google's products are so popular is because Google has the ability to mine copious amounts of userdata in order to create powerful and useful services. It turns out that with most of these products, you reach a threshold where there's so much userdata that your own specific data becomes statistically insignificant -- security through obscurity.
Sure there are people to whom that "excuse" is not good enough, and there are ways to opt out of submitting userdata. But at least Google provides (some amount of) transparency to their terms, which is more than can be said about many other companies that are more callous about abusing your privacy for monetary gain. If you're that concerned about privacy, then you should give up Google products, online search/directory services, online shops like Amazon and B&N, the vast majority of user-generated content sites, messaging services like AIM and MSN, ... Pretty much everything short of disconnecting your ISP. Same with wireless carriers and how they track your calls, voicemail, messaging, possibly even location. Hell, you might as well just stop doing anything, because even in real life, everything you do and everything you buy says something about you.
Of course there's something to be said that the G1 ships with only Google apps installed. But that's missing the bigger picture, that the open platform (the core Android stack, which needs absolutely no userdata for functionality) essentially allows you to trim the baggage wherever you see fit. Certainly not right away, and the G1 will be the learning curve, but ultimately the whole platform will have a level of transparency that no other mobile OS (WinMo, iPhone, Symbian, BlackBerry, etc) currently has.
People said the same thing about library cards 20 years ago. Anyone who thinks any organization, let alone the government, respects your privacy is living in a fantasy world.
Google has fought the government in the US over privacy issues (the US government wants Google to hand over all sorts of user information) and Google has won several cases. I think the e-mails I got with links to the numa-numa dance or mortgages or viagra or my nigerian cousin with money to send me are fairly safe for now.
I'm not worried.
1) I'm not typing in my birthdate, SS#, and mailing address left and right. All the other information is pretty much useless for anything significant.
2) Identity theft is the easiest crime to prosecute. Most of the criminals are stupid and have the merchandise, credit cards, or other stuff sent to their own address, leading the Cops/FBI straight to their door.
3) If I were truly worried, I'd have my credit reports frozen. It's not that expensive, and it stops ID theft, even when the thief has all your info.
beartard said:
Google has fought the government in the US over privacy issues (the US government wants Google to hand over all sorts of user information) and Google has won several cases.
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Click to collapse
This a perfect example why I'd rather trust Google with personal info than many other entities. The Governmnet was trying to do something illegal, Google resisted and won.
The reason that Google all the data gathering is for en masse analysis. Wired had an interesting article about it recently (link). This gigantic mass of data is how they were able to create the Chrome browser so quickly and have it work. The information they have allowed them to simulate years of beta testing in a few days. They don't really care it YOU use a particular website or type of phone, they care that 213568 people use a particular website or type of phone.
It really annoys me that people get on Google's case for this type of thing. They could easily have been more underhanded and you'd never know and they'd really never have to tell you because of legal loopholes.
They're being upfront that that's a good thing.
oh wow... I just watched a talk at Hope from a PI about this... so... all you information is publicly available already. With any single piece of information about you someone can get you DOB, SSN, jobs and pay, friends, sexual orientation, your picture, religion, political views,....... and on and on and on. Google already has one of the largest databases of information about you. You know what really surprised me? The company with the largest consumer database in the USA? Domino's... the FBI buys information about you from a pizza place. Myspace, linkdin, monster, transunion, facebook,.... they are all keeping information on you... it's a scary world out there... if you have an SSN you information is publicly available. If you have used the internet then even more about you is public knowledge. Here is the best part... because google, facebook, monster..... are all private companies they don't have to delete you information EVER... and its not all bad... if the government had been looking at the information on the 9/11 hijackers we probably could have stopped 9/11 based on the information about the terrorists that is publicly available.
BTW google is now offering a service for doctors to store your medical information online
sorry for rambling... I am getting a G1 and I have trusted google for years... if you are wanted don't get online, make a phone call, drive your car, or even walk outside in some cities but otherwise you shouldn't have anything to fear.
dagentooboy said:
...you know what really surprised me? The company with the largest consumer database in the USA? Domino's... the FBI buys information about you from a pizza place...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And your source for this rather unbelieveable claim is...?
sorry... here is the session that I watched...
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=3079242748023143842&hl=en&fs=true
and part 2
http://video.google.com/googleplayer.swf?docid=2219573359400519690&hl=en&fs=true
I was just trying to make a point about how little privacy we really have these days... watch it for your self if you want to devote the 3 hrs to it (Very interesting)
dagentooboy said:
and its not all bad... if the government had been looking at the information on the 9/11 hijackers we probably could have stopped 9/11 based on the information about the terrorists that is publicly available.
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Click to collapse
Using the same information, you can see that five of the 17-18 hijackers on 9/11 are running Dominos pizza places in Riyadh at this very moment.
Android EULA Questions
If someone can send me a copy of the EULA for the G1, both Android and TMo's I would really appreciate it. I want one, but I have nagging privacy concerns that T-Mobile is unable/unwilling to answer.
Android is in a position to collect serious amounts of data on individuals, and the combination of Google's desktop information combined with the information from the handset has really scary Orwellian possibilities. With Android Google has the ability to collect very detailed location information. There has been no mention in the media over the rights to the data that could be collected by Google. Does the EULA give Google the rights to use and sell the data collected from Android, and specify what data it collects, and give you an opt-out?
I know it's really kind of conspiracy theory, and sounds out in left field, but I don't put anything past corporations trying to make money. Imagine if you went in to buy a car, and the dealer buys your Google data? They know know what cars you have looked at online, what dealers you have visited, how long you were there, and whether or not you have explored other financing options than the dealers. Same with buying a house... The selling agent could buy your Google data, and know what other houses you have looked at, and what price range you are looking in. Possibly serious advantages in negotiating.
Imagine the value of the information your bank would have if they bought your location data, and overlayed it with your banking records. they then could sell a very detailed consumer profile of where you shopped, where you bought, and other spending/location/web history data.
The bar code application has lousy implications also. It gives the vendor of the app a really good idea of what you are shopping for, and the locations you do your shopping.
Another thing that's kind of unnerving is the association of your location with your google calendar.
It's bad enough with all the data Google gets from my email, calendar, and web history do I really want them to have EVERYTHING?
Are you that paranoid?
As if your information isn't out there for anyone to get now.
Your phone is as safe as it's gonna be as the amount of info you keep on your desktop gmail.
whether is on a desktop gmail account or a phones.
Guess what? same thing.
Unless I'm really missing something. lol
Your ISP doesnt really protect you much. Gmail has won court orders from the government revealing info from accounts.
Toss a coin.
you have a point. but to be honest everything is gearing to that. from easy pass to credit/debit cards to just logging into you isp and geetting ads to meet single in your hoe town. i realized this as i just movend and was getting adds for where i lived.
if someone wanted to find u they just need ur cell phone. unless u have a analog phone u are being tracked (or can be tracked) whether u want to be or not.
or u can get the phone set up and email with gmail then do not use it. use the pop email feature until a full exchange solution come out. the use yahoo or altav or anything else for searching. u might have some temp success at eluding the glasses of google.
if i had the info u were really looking for i would be glad to share. if i dont miss or havent missed ups. today might be the day
I know everything on my PC's well monitored by everyone from the ISP to every friggin advertising cookie that gets dropped on me. Private email's on my own server, not GMail. I just think location data's a little much, and people need to be cognizant of what we are giving away for shiny new toys and features. And Google's little gaff with the Chrome EULA (We want the rights to everything you do with this..I Know it was an "error") removed a lot of the don't be evil luster.
And just because I'm paranoid doesn't mean they're not watching....
My point was...you have a sim card type cell. Thats all they need to track you.
You can delete every program on the phone. Guess what, you can be tracked, by the sim card inserted and your phone just being on.
As for info do what was mentioned in the previous thread.
Miss read and deleted a statement!
I know, I can be tracked tower to tower, and approximated (I used to work in a 911 dispatch center and had to deal with a ton of cell 911 calls). But, there is some expectation of privacy from a telco, and oversight from the FCC is a possibility (I know, great job they've done so far with carriers). But, like I said, I was curious, and none of the blogging coverage has said anything yet, s I figured I might try to stir up some stuff.
Google has been known for a long time to perpetually store all searches by IP, with the ability to assemble a shockingly complete picture of people by what they search on. Recently the Google CEO regurgitated the view that, "If you're not doing something wrong, you have nothing to worry about." (look it up)
Well I like Android and the development excitement, as I've used Debian exclusively for 12 years. But I am gravely concerned about privacy issues were I to buy an Android. I've hardly even used Google as a search engine. (Clusty)
Has any research been done on this? Does no one else share this concern?
You can disable this function of your Google Account. After logging in click the 'Dashboard' link that says 'View Data Stored With This Account'. Scroll to the bottom of the page where it says 'Web History' and you can disable/clear it for your account.
If using Google as your search engine makes you nervous then this should really put a bee in your bonnet:
Google and the NSA: Necessary Allies http://www.pcworld.com/businesscenter/article/188558/google_and_the_nsa_necessary_allies.html
Of course it's for 'OUR' protection.
Building on what mr_skot said... Google's CEO also made it clear that user information is only linked to you for a few months, then it is scrubbed and is made anonymous for more time. I can't remember if he said it was something like 18 months or a few years. Either way, they're serious about maintaining privacy, and you can bet that after the Chinese attack a couple weeks ago, they'll be beefing up security and changing their protocols.
If you want to remain completely anonymous, I suggest not using google, or google talk, or syncing your phone etc.
basically, you give a huge chunk of personal information by using google's services...
THAT was one of my hesitations of switching from winmo to android, but I got over it.
Real tin-foil hat wearer's don't use cell phones! For communication, they hand deliver letters, at secret drop off points.
What exactly are you guys doing to be so hesitant about Google? The personal information on your phone is so dire that you don't want them to view it? What will they do with this information unless you are doing something illegal? Other than that, I highly doubt they are just going to 'target' you purposely - the only way I could see you being so in danger is that they get hacked, and people go through their servers or whatever.
But what are the chances, that you and the millions of other people out there are going to be in danger? Maybe because I don't use my phone for.. bad purposes per-say, or search anything bad, I have no worry. I'm curious as to why people fear Google, though, maybe I'm being to open minded.
The point is in being comfortable with a stranger being able to know a lot of information about you ay the stroke of a key.
I would worry more about T-Mobile than Google, since they are the ones that monitor U for the Gov.
mrbkkt1 said:
The point is in being comfortable with a stranger being able to know a lot of information about you ay the stroke of a key.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes but the thing is, who cares about you specifically. What person in the GOOG HQ do you believe actually 'thinks' about you enough to want to be able to access any information about yourself. No one wants your info, so no one will try to find you - your information - or where you live.
I guess it is disturbing to people that they CAN do that, but T-Mobile can too, AT&T can too, and of course any other carrier has the same information that Google has, although Google could be more precise, or they could be more evil. What are you afraid of Google having? Your contact numbers? Your SMS? Your.. emails? Out of all those, I honestly don't care if they have it. Google isn't the only company with your location, so it isn't something I want to list.
There is probably something I'm not understanding here, though, and someone can probably easily explain how I am completely wrong about everything.. but this is my perspective. I believe if they don't care about you, then they wont dig into your life.
It's an invasion of privacy--though of course, your government invades your privacy all the time and has access to plenty of down-and-deep information about you. It's understandable some people would be anxious about it, whether or not they've done wrong. Mind you, this isn't exclusive to Google or anything. Microsoft collects information about you when possible. I don't doubt Apple et al does too.
I'm a bit leery about it myself; you sacrifice privacy for convenience and ease of use (google services/apps are great and easy to use, synchronization with your Android phone is excellent, etc), then you find yourself giving up more and more information. It's not the most comfortable state.
Eclair~ said:
What exactly are you guys doing to be so hesitant about Google? The personal information on your phone is so dire that you don't want them to view it? What will they do with this information unless you are doing something illegal? Other than that, I highly doubt they are just going to 'target' you purposely - the only way I could see you being so in danger is that they get hacked, and people go through their servers or whatever.
But what are the chances, that you and the millions of other people out there are going to be in danger? Maybe because I don't use my phone for.. bad purposes per-say, or search anything bad, I have no worry. I'm curious as to why people fear Google, though, maybe I'm being to open minded.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Congratulations, you win the Daily Mail award.
If you feel that only people who are doing something wrong need to worry then you can't really be against CCTV cameras on every corner. How about tagging all your shopping so your waste can be tracked or chipping everyone so they can be tracked at any time, in real time. I mean, if you're not doing anything wrong why would you worry
There *are* things that aren't illegal that you might not want any Tom, **** or Harry knowing. I can tell you now that any Google employee with access to that data is worth $$$ to a private detective - but then all Google employees are angels and never break the law and don't have gambling debts or money problems.
While the corporation (google) might not be particularly interested in the individual, the corporation is made up of individuals who may not have the same values as good honest folk. That's something you can't guard against.
Never ever use the argument that if you're not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to fear. 'Wrong' is a value judgment, subject to change at any time. 'Illegal' varies from place to place, country to country.
SC
ScaredyCat said:
Never ever use the argument that if you're not doing anything wrong then you have nothing to fear. 'Wrong' is a value judgment, subject to change at any time. 'Illegal' varies from place to place, country to country.
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Click to collapse
Exactly. And this was exactly the assertion that Google's CEO made this December. I repeat a famous old wisdom: 'Those who would trade freedom for security, deserve neither.'
To those naive ones who can't understand the privacy ramifications, suffice it to say that my business is none of their business. You can not understand how a fascist regime operates, or know what it was like behind the Iron Curtain. I was in intel, and do not like the unConstitutional changes to the law that were made in the past 9 years, and so I want to protect myself. You can open your life like a book as you like... eh, maybe it'll be OK. Or maybe your divorcing wife or someone suing you will find things you didn't want.
I am just trying to find out what kind of hooks Android may have that may cause it to store information unjustifiably and/or send it back to the Mother Ship. Of primary concern is the OS, and secondary is Google apps. I am assuming that the nav app is a no-go.
Before anyone lazily asserts that my OS or browser is more vulnerable, I've run Debian exclusively for 12 years, secured using the NSA procedure. I have used Google for search only a few times since it started, owing to their atrocious data retention policies (I use Clusty.com), and do not have a Google account. I don't trust assurances that data is scrubbed because they make much of their money from the information.
I do use T-Mobile, as they are one of only two companies that refused to cooperate with Bush's unConstitutional warrantless wiretapping. (Qworst was the other one) Oh, you think warrantless wiretapping is legal? Then why last year did Congress pass a law specifically exempting Big Telecom from Constitutional challenges? (which BTW, Obama voted for; that was it for me with him)
Has any research been done on the security of Android? I couldn't find any. (I am aware of the HTC leak, which was squashed by Cyanogen)
No one else has thought about this?
Oddly enough, using custom ROMs makes me somewhat less concerned about privacy. Being able to pick and choose components of the software does help.
Afraid I got nothing else to add, though. Ultimately, you can either put on your tinfoil hat and cut yourself off from all online contact (because someone, somewhere, is always collecting information) or resign yourself to it.
And you seriously believe Google are the ONLY ones doing this? at least we know about it.
How do companies get their 'market research'?....
I believe we have nothing to worry about, but in this day and age, to expect to be completely anonymous and 'off the grid' is about as plausible as Apple employees using Android devices in the office...
I wrote a long post then decided to delete it cause Im not going to change anyones minds on a message board anyways. So Ill simply say, no, I dont worry about it.
Amdathlonuk said:
And you seriously believe Google are the ONLY ones doing this? at least we know about it.
How do companies get their 'market research'?....
I believe we have nothing to worry about, but in this day and age, to expect to be completely anonymous and 'off the grid' is about as plausible as Apple employees using Android devices in the office...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
So... your solution is to give up and resign yourself to allowing a Police State. No thanks, I don't agree.
ThatSearchEngineThatEveryoneUses is a gigantic corporation which will vacuum up every search you do and correlate them to assemble a frighteningly accurate picture of who you are. Nah, fsck that. I'll stick with Clusty and off-OS's like Debian.
Resign and argue with me all you want.
My thoughts...
1. Seperate your data. Its why I refuse to useGoogle Chrome. I already have enough info on Google without them knowing every single purchase , website visit , and log in info for everywhere I go.
It may be futile but its at least an effort.
2. No company tosses information. I dont care how many times I press clear or delete on Google settings. My personalized info is sitting on a server somewhere and will be until that info becomes worthless.
3. I have zero desire to contribute to skynet =-).
Im fully convinced data supported profiling will be in the hands of some ridiculously powerful AIs and Im not in the mood to have a bunch of robots know what Im going to do before I do it.
Lastly I really do think its absolutely sad how easily people forego there privacy like it shoudl be of no concern.
Your GSM operator can track and record all your calls, and can be subpoenaed for your general location at any time. Would you trust them more than Google?
xManMythLegend said:
My thoughts...
1. Seperate your data. Its why I refuse to useGoogle Chrome. I already have enough info on Google without them knowing every single purchase , website visit , and log in info for everywhere I go.
It may be futile but its at least an effort.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except Google Chrome does not collect enough information to discern such a thing, and your ISP can find out all that (and more, as long as it's not SSL-encrypted) anyway.
Everyone put on your tin foil hats!
Has any research been done on the security of Android? I couldn't find any.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, it's all, you know, here: http://android.git.kernel.org/ . Dig the source and see if Android's sending any rouge information to anyone.
Quantumstate said:
So... your solution is to give up and resign yourself to allowing a Police State. No thanks, I don't agree.
ThatSearchEngineThatEveryoneUses is a gigantic corporation which will vacuum up every search you do and correlate them to assemble a frighteningly accurate picture of who you are. Nah, fsck that. I'll stick with Clusty and off-OS's like Debian. Resign and argue all you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And it's not already?
What about CCTV? all the online purchases you make?
Credit card details?
Mortgage?
Electoral Roll?
National Insurance details...
Christ, they already know more about us than you can think.
Do a search for your name on the internet, I even found a site listing my marriage to my ex-wife, the children we had and when/where they were born......
I won't KNOWINGLY contribute to them collecting my data, but I'm not going to get paranoid about it either.
Any word on tethering for the DVP?
If it's looking like it's not going to be possible I want to order the Omnia before VAT goes up.
Thanks in advance,
cfp
Not a matter of if its possible (I am sure it is..) It's how to do it.. I havent gotten past finding a diagnostic screen and the deafining silence on my posts tells me no one else has either. YET..
So you'd be very surprised if tethering wasn't available in a few months?
Tethering was SUPPOSED to be a major feature of WP7.. but the carriers gave MS a huge pushback on that, as they had different plans on getting more money out of thier customers for tethering. So it was removed, on one phone (I believe the Samsung) they have found the "Work around".
I have seen on some videos and boards the things HTC wanted to do to the OS but was stopped from doing by MS in regards to customizations. So again there has to be ways to do some of this.
So I firmly believe its in the OS buried somewhere. At worst we have to registry hack to get to it.
The Devs here are amazing.. and its only a matter of time until they crack the OS and come up with ways to customize the tiles, tether, custom ringtones (that has already been done through Chevron), and the like.
The real question is are the Devs going to have to fight through the OS every step of the way or is MS or HTC (Or someone inside) going to "leak" some of the needed elements that will help attain those goals.
If they can crack iOS WP7 should be crackable too.
Would love to see something like htc's Windows 6.5 "Wi Fi Router" on Windows Phone 7 phones.
cdgoin said:
Tethering was SUPPOSED to be a major feature of WP7.. but the carriers gave MS a huge pushback on that, as they had different plans on getting more money out of thier customers for tethering. So it was removed, on one phone (I believe the Samsung) they have found the "Work around".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Where are you getting this information from? There has never been any mention of tethering being part of WP7, not in the test builds, tech preview and obviously not in the final release. And where is the "pushback" from carriers? In fact if you read here http://wmpoweruser.com/telstra-thinks-windows-phone-7-is-very-competitive-wants-tethering/ the carrier rep actually says they DO want tethering in WP7.
There is NO evidence that tethering was present at all and then removed for any reason, and the simple fact is that its just not there and we have no idea how it will be implemented when and if it actually is officially added to WP7.
In a number of sources.. http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/23/windows-phone-7-has-tethering-support-up-to-carriers-whether-to/ its in the OS but disabled.
Lastly there was even a notice early on that like WM6 it would be intragal to the OS, and that MS was going to make carrier not charge for it and it would be free. Fpr the life of me can not find those articles.. (I'm not a conspiracy theorist.. but... I KNOW I read them... )
As we all know the Samsung can do it if you do a few hacks and jump through a few hoops. So its obviously there.
I was even told TODAY by T-mobile customer rep its a $15 option.. didnt say how it would work though. REALLY thinking of paying for the $15 option and seing how they do it. Good thing the old WM6.5 can tether without any blockage.
efjay said:
Where are you getting this information from? There has never been any mention of tethering being part of WP7, not in the test builds, tech preview and obviously not in the final release. And where is the "pushback" from carriers? In fact if you read here http://wmpoweruser.com/telstra-thinks-windows-phone-7-is-very-competitive-wants-tethering/ the carrier rep actually says they DO want tethering in WP7.
There is NO evidence that tethering was present at all and then removed for any reason, and the simple fact is that its just not there and we have no idea how it will be implemented when and if it actually is officially added to WP7.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm agreeing with you...I've never seen this in any spec or announcment. I do know that tethering is in the OS, but its a setting that is preset to off by the OEM. It's exposed by accident in the Samsung....and I'm sure others have it. I've always been under the belief that tethering will be exposed, once the appropriate data plans are available. I think of tethering like I think of luggage on an airlines....if you pay, you can bring all the bags you want....No pay, no bags....
It seems to me that the KINm phones (or atleast the TWOm) are the only product in a specific niche of the cell phone / smartphone market, namely they offer WiFi browsing w/o an expensive data plan.
I would suspect that there is a pretty big group of users who would want exactly that. But, they probably don't know the option exists, especially if Verizon doesn't really advertise this phone. (They don't even have it in Verizon stores that I have been to, only online, listed under feature phones). Of course, it's not really in Verizon's best interest to promote this, considering they _want_ you to pay for a data plan.
So, this leaves me feeling very uncertain whether this "relaunch" of the KIN phones will ever catch on?
Also, is anyone else on the board interested in this phone still? I thought Kin threads were fairly active, but maybe it's just me?
Jon
jon2012 said:
It seems to me that the KINm phones (or atleast the TWOm) are the only product in a specific niche of the cell phone / smartphone market, namely they offer WiFi browsing w/o an expensive data plan.
I would suspect that there is a pretty big group of users who would want exactly that. But, they probably don't know the option exists, especially if Verizon doesn't really advertise this phone. (They don't even have it in Verizon stores that I have been to, only online, listed under feature phones). Of course, it's not really in Verizon's best interest to promote this, considering they _want_ you to pay for a data plan.
So, this leaves me feeling very uncertain whether this "relaunch" of the KIN phones will ever catch on?
Also, is anyone else on the board interested in this phone still? I thought Kin threads were fairly active, but maybe it's just me?
Jon
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I agree that if Verizon would advertise this phone it would possibly catch on. As for the Kin in Verizon stores, that's actually where I got mine and I've seen Verizon's reps trying to persuade people into getting the phone.
The phone seems to be getting pretty good reviews and response from buyers, but like you said Verizon is doing a poor job of promoting it.
And there are a handful of us both here and on Microsoft's forum site that have been trying many different approaches, but unforturnately none of us are experts in routing phones. A few us have bricked phones now, and we still haven't made to much progress, but still hoping someone can make progress.
This link rates the twom as the best messaging phone.
Kin TwoM= Win!
I am switching to the kin twom from a HTC Thunderbolt. I have a xoom as well, so I really don't need to keep paying for data on my handset. I have had several android phones, and for that matter several winmo phones in the past. I am excited about this because this really is a great phone for a "feature phone". No data, but having wifi is really sweet. I want to hack it and port android to it, which may not be possible, but either way, I think this really is a win, especially if you have a tablet.
Spectredroid said:
I am excited about this because this really is a great phone for a "feature phone". No data, but having wifi is really sweet. I want to hack it and port android to it, which may not be possible, but either way, I think this really is a win, especially if you have a tablet.
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that depends on the point of view. For me, even if i'm pretty naughty with it, it isn't a great phone, caused in most part by the software..
- Software lags a lot (should not for the "few" resources that we use).
More if you take in account that we are using a tegra device with a 0'6Ghz CPU. My crappy PDA with 203mhz can play Age of empires mobile without lagging, and this phone can't just run the menu smoothly (sometimes). I smell bad optimization...
- The browser support for rtsp is kinda lame (no flash support and just redirection to mobile sites to a streaming protocol). Browser in general is pure **add your favourite badword here**.
- The wifi detection is barely ok, but several times it can't find the ESSID even if it's near it (@ my home wifi router) and you have to turn on, turn off the wifi till it awakes.
- Suffers from random reboots (if some software freezes). Happens to me sometimes, even with the phone playing the "i'm like a brick" game alone over my desk.
- It's battery is fastly drained by the OS, cause you cant close apps, and they are surely running in the background, like other windows ce OS's. If you open your browser after rebooting, it's there forever. If i could add only 1 app to a kin in the wooorld, i would add a battery/app ultraconfigurator to reduce so.
- Sometimes it can't even load some apps and shows a "loading..." window till it's... well loaded.
.....
On the other hand, the screen is pretty well done, imo. It detected my touchs almost perfect, whenever i tried.
At least, they solved the old bug that the original kin two had, where you set a wifi and can't reenter wifi settings cause the os hanged doing so (one or several reboots needed).
It would be so cool if it was sold unlocked & without contract for 100$. Then use dataplan with the company you want, and with installable apps.
Read here.... http://www.wpcentral.com/mercenary-hackers-hackingteam-claim-full-control-over-windows-phone. Not sure how to feel about this??? If true then there's definately hope for unlocking more WP8 handsets yet at the same time with all the NSA crap going on and concerns about privacy and security...WTF??? Reading around various forums and sites I am actually surprised how many people are NOT interested in unlocking their devices naming security as their number one reason for switching to the WP8 platform. In all the time I've spent here on the forums, with the exception of a few shady posts by no one of any consequence, I have never seen any maliciousness in the the search for exploits and attempts to unlock devices. If anything it almost seems like a game between devs and MS/OEMS and it wouldn't surprise me one bit if some of the devs here were offered opportunities by those same entities; if not then our gain, MS's loss. However this article got me thinking about the possibilities and implications of any exploits or unlocks found and just wondering what others thought... As for my mindset....I paid for my device with hard earned cash therefore it should be mine to F up as I see fit and I will deal with the consequences like a big boy.
Microsoft buying Apple is much more plausible that what is in there.
Part of having a secret surveillance plan is to actually keep the plan secret.
I doubt the group "responsible" for this would post their achievements on the internet, provided they are supported by the government.
tonbonz said:
Read here.... http://www.wpcentral.com/mercenary-hackers-hackingteam-claim-full-control-over-windows-phone. ... As for my mindset....I paid for my device with hard earned cash therefore it should be mine to F up as I see fit and I will deal with the consequences like a big boy.
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You and folk like you are in the insignificant minority of the population
There are far to many people that will quite happily blame MS / OEMs / Networks for any and all problems regardless of who actually broke it.
The other thing is said networks / OEMs don't want you arsing about with their phone, for example, ATT take great pride in being able to charge you for a service that is free, if the phone was unlocked that would stop and ATT would be out of pocket. They pull out of WP arena and rollocks your fathers uncle, MS loses market share.
it sucks, but such is life, now that MS has locked down the market place with from what I can tell is completely impervious to abuse, I doubt very much they could give a $h!t what you do to the platform and if you can unlock it, they do however care about market share which is where the networks come in...
Oh, that's pretty plausible, actually. Even if you assume it's for every device on every version of the OS, I'd still be willing to believe it. Microsoft has done well on security with WP8, hardening the OS (NT in general) over the last decade or so to remove vulns, and using pretty good sandboxing of WP8 apps to minimize attack surface. With that said, there are still items being found, and patched (at least on the PC), regularly in Windows. Some of those vulnerabilities will be present and reachable on WP8 as well, and given how slowly phone updates roll out, I wouldn't be surprised if there's a known but un-patched issue being exploited. For that matter, it could be a true zero-day - something Microsoft is completely unaware of, at least when the exploit was first used - although I think that's less likely.
dazza9075 said:
You and folk like you are in the insignificant minority of the population
There are far to many people that will quite happily blame MS / OEMs / Networks for any and all problems regardless of who actually broke it.
The other thing is said networks / OEMs don't want you arsing about with their phone, for example, ATT take great pride in being able to charge you for a service that is free, if the phone was unlocked that would stop and ATT would be out of pocket. They pull out of WP arena and rollocks your fathers uncle, MS loses market share.
it sucks, but such is life, now that MS has locked down the market place with from what I can tell is completely impervious to abuse, I doubt very much they could give a $h!t what you do to the platform and if you can unlock it, they do however care about market share which is where the networks come in...
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I'm used to being the minority, in a world full of sheep I'd much rather be a wolf, but insignificant? Harsh... Of course the security of the platform is probably the biggest selling point MS had to offer the networks and with perfect timing. I'm sure it's helped increase market shares when everyone's worried about keeping their data secure. As for the marketplace, I am constantly amazed at the apps being created but use very few myself. My kid spends more time on my Lumia than I do; using the Kid's Room feature to play games. Another brilliant "security" feature and one of the first features I point out to any parent asking about the platform. Anyways, knowing the work done here and intentions behind it, seeing that some group possibly gained full access to the platform simply for the purpose of "spying" for anyone that can pay their fees kinda p***ed me off and wondered what others thoughts were...
"Mercenary hackers claim full control over Windows Phone"
and my grandpa told me he had sex with Lili Marleen... but who know... maybe has maybe not
tonbonz said:
I'm used to being the minority, in a world full of sheep I'd much rather be a wolf, but insignificant? Harsh... Of course the security of the platform is probably the biggest selling point MS had to offer the networks and with perfect timing. I'm sure it's helped increase market shares when everyone's worried about keeping their data secure. As for the marketplace, I am constantly amazed at the apps being created but use very few myself. My kid spends more time on my Lumia than I do; using the Kid's Room feature to play games. Another brilliant "security" feature and one of the first features I point out to any parent asking about the platform. Anyways, knowing the work done here and intentions behind it, seeing that some group possibly gained full access to the platform simply for the purpose of "spying" for anyone that can pay their fees kinda p***ed me off and wondered what others thoughts were...
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aye, we are significant in our world but there are a lot more numpties out there then there are of us
GoodDayToDie said:
I wouldn't be surprised if there's a known but un-patched issue being exploited..
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I totally agree with you but until I see something concrete these are only words...or like I can say in Italian:
fatti, non pugnette!:laugh: (facts, no word please)
Oh, to be sure. Still, it actually gives me a little hope for finding a universal "jailbreak" hack... although I'd prefer one that isn't remotely exploitable.