Database Users

Is A2SD really necessary on the Nexus?

Not to be a bother, but I have a few questions maybe a few of you could explain. But before I do I should prob say a few things about my general phone usage.
For the most part I use my phone for mostly texting. The reason I upgraded to a Nexus was to have a full touchscreen phone with a processor fast enough to keep up with touchscreen texting on the Android OS. Before this I owned a Mytouch which I then took back, and used 150 of the money to buy a g1 simply for the physical keyboard. I tried every rom mostly, and for some reason some even seemed faster on the g1 than the mytouch. The one I ended up sticking with was the MLIGN 32B. It worked without any problems and was pretty snappy. And from my understanding 32B relied more on A2SD due to less internal memory. On both roms 32A and 32B I never experienced much of a speed difference, and using my process manager, both roms seemed to contain the same amount of remaining memory after install. In the whole time I only really downloaded two apps, Root explorer and Task Panel.
Now on to the real question, about the memory on the Nexus. At first I flashed the Madaco rom on the phone with a a formatted swap-128mb/ext-1024 mb on a 4gb class 6 card, and installed only Task panel. My memory is at around 120 at the time after killing all apps. **Also not sure if I remember correctly but my memory is around 120 or 130 even with the factory rom, but that is based on memory and may not be correct.** Anyways...I reformated the card, swap-512/ext-1024, on the same 4gb card, and installed only task panel. After killing all apps, my phone still remains at 120 memory. So I switched cards to an plain jane formatted 16gb class 2, and things seem to run faster if not the same as the 4gb class 6.
Two or three questions result from this, as I understand the purpose A2SD and formatted memory cards are to extend the original memory of the phone and help performance a bit?
Yet unless task panel doesn't read all the extra partitions and gives false memory readings, I have yet to see a benefit to forrmatting an sd card, or using A2SD?
And I guess the final question is, what is the purpose of relying on artificial memory expansion, when we are striving for phones with more internal memory at the same time. After all that's why I upgraded to the Nexus, so I'd have to rely less on outside sources to make my phone's performance better. To me, I'd rather be able to rely on a rom that streamlines the space needed to allow the extra memory to go towards performance. Though I also don't download or install a lot of apps, keep that in mind. Nor am I trying to criticize any progress already made, just trying to understand it all.
So sorry if I sound completely off, or ignorant in my post, but I'm just trying to get more informed. So I will accept all forms of informative posts, flaming or not. Thanks.

RAM- amount of memory to run applications.
ROM- memory to store files.
Task manager is measuring your RAM, which A2SD has nothing to do with.

its not really needed but if you like lots off apps and big 3d games then it is. ive been with my nexus one for a week and a half, and am down to 82mb in internal phone storage. ive got a bunch of big 3d games that take up a lot of room. but for the everyday user, theres plenty of internal memory. almost 120mb more than the g1(74mb), about a total of 190mb. hope that helps.

Okay, thanks, for the most part those two simple answers clarify things. I guess I was under the impression that out of the 3 partitions (swap/ext/fat32) that the phone used one of them for a virtual memory, the way windows uses hard drive space for virtual memory if your ram usage is getting close to overflowing. Am I correct in assuming such, or does the phone in fact not use any of the partitions in this way?
Though if it does, which partition is used as virtual memory per say? Or are there not any add ons out for the nexus yet that incorporate such?

fykick said:
Okay, thanks, for the most part those two simple answers clarify things. I guess I was under the impression that out of the 3 partitions (swap/ext/fat32) that the phone used one of them for a virtual memory, the way windows uses hard drive space for virtual memory if your ram usage is getting close to overflowing. Am I correct in assuming such, or does the phone in fact not use any of the partitions in this way?
Though if it does, which partition is used as virtual memory per say? Or are there not any add ons out for the nexus yet that incorporate such?
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It would be more accurate to say a2sd is necessary for (far) fewer people.
The swap partition in a conventional Linux system would be used as virtual memory. The stock ROM for the N1 is not configured to take advantage of swap however. It is possible that cyanogen or another ROM cook will enable it but, like a2sd, it is not as necessary as it was with the G1.

I think apps2sd isnt needed apps are usually smaller than 4MB plus will you actually use all those apps?
I have like 20apps atm and use like 10 of them.Others were good at the time i installed but are boring now.Im waiting for gameboid and the other apps to be in the market.Does anyone see raging thunder in market?

We need A2SD. I have done some research and there will be a plenty of 3D games witch will need plenty of storage some of them mite need 100+mb. So you do need A2SD and it will be nice to see what Google will com up with. Can't wait to see it.

Ace42 said:
I think apps2sd isnt needed apps are usually smaller than 4MB plus will you actually use all those apps?
I have like 20apps atm and use like 10 of them.Others were good at the time i installed but are boring now.Im waiting for gameboid and the other apps to be in the market.Does anyone see raging thunder in market?
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lol, raging thunder is sweet on the n1. so is armageddon squadron, armored strike, call of duty, rs09 real soccer, sky force, speed forge 3d, toonwars, wave blazer, homerun battle 3d.... while most apps are under 4mb, some are 8, 10+. they add up. on top of games, i also have many other apps that i find useful. not all at once, but at times. why not have apps2sd as an option? i have 76 total apps and games right now, im down to 80mb. id like to download more apps in future. my g1 has 220 apps installed with 180mb left.

simms22 said:
lol, raging thunder is sweet on the n1. so is armageddon squadron, armored strike, call of duty, rs09 real soccer, sky force, speed forge 3d, toonwars, wave blazer, homerun battle 3d.... while most apps are under 4mb, some are 8, 10+. they add up. on top of games, i also have many other apps that i find useful. not all at once, but at times. why not have apps2sd as an option? i have 76 total apps and games right now, im down to 80mb. id like to download more apps in future. my g1 has 220 apps installed with 180mb left.
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I've been saying this in many of the discussions on a2sd for the N1. There are those who feel that it is not needed on the N1. However, there is less space on the N1 (appalling for 2010 and such a sweet device) than on the myTouch and we all had it on the myTouch. Given that there is less than 200MB of storage available for apps on the N1, unless we use a2sd we are doomed to using a small number of apps each being small in size. While I dislike just about everything about the iPhone, the one thing it has is the ability to install 100MB+ apps. While a2sd will allow this, these types of apps will not be created until there is official support for more storage, whether it's built-in or an a2sd implemented by Google (supposedly in the works but that basically means nothing until it's here).

Until the storage limits for downloaded apps is greatly relaxed (i.e. by apps2sd) we won't see as many really nice looking media rich apps as the iPhone and iPod Touch have. Most of the apps are multi-megabyte on that platform because there is no disincentive to including lots of media and taking up space like there is on non-rooted Android phones.
You can look at the current apps on the Android Market and come to the conclusion that apps2sd isn't a pressing need, but you'd be missing the bigger picture of all the apps that aren't there because nobody wants to download many multi-megabyte apps until we have essentially unlimited storage...

AndroidAppCritic said:
I've saying this in many of the discussions on a2sd for the N1. There are those who feel that it is not needed on the N1. However, there is less space on the N1 (appalling for 2010 and such a sweet device) than on the myTouch and we all had it on the myTouch. Given that there is less than 200MB of storage available for apps on the N1, unless we use a2sd we are doomed to using a small number of apps each being small in size. While I dislike just about everything about the iPhone, the one thing it has is the ability to install 100MB+ apps. While a2sd will allow this, these types of apps will not be created until there is official support for more storage, whether it's built-in or an a2sd implemented by Google (supposedly in the works but that basically means nothing until it's here).
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Agreed , totally agree. hope Google can implement the offical a2sd soon, can not wait for that.

AndroidAppCritic said:
I've saying this in many of the discussions on a2sd for the N1. There are those who feel that it is not needed on the N1. However, there is less space on the N1 (appalling for 2010 and such a sweet device) than on the myTouch and we all had it on the myTouch. Given that there is less than 200MB of storage available for apps on the N1, unless we use a2sd we are doomed to using a small number of apps each being small in size. While I dislike just about everything about the iPhone, the one thing it has is the ability to install 100MB+ apps. While a2sd will allow this, these types of apps will not be created until there is official support for more storage, whether it's built-in or an a2sd implemented by Google (supposedly in the works but that basically means nothing until it's here).
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absolutely agree. at the rate im going, im going to be out of internal storage memory by the end of this month. and by the way, i have both your apps on my g1 and cachemate on my nexus. both are extremely useful apps!

simms22 said:
absolutely agree. at the rate im going, im going to be out of internal storage memory by the end of this month. and by the way, i have both your apps on my g1 and cachemate on my nexus. both are extremely useful apps!
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Awesome. Since I haven't done a2sd on my N1 yet, I've once again realized the pressing need for my CacheMate. I don't know what non-root users do with all that junk on their devices (wish I would make it for non-root users). I really hope that I either don't need my app anymore or that it only has to be run once a month. This storage limitation is a joke. The first time I ran CacheMate on my N1 it cleared almost 50MB! That's 1/4 of the available space. I'd dump Android this phone if it wasn't rooted and I had to manually clear cache all day (I had CacheMate way before it came out ).

People can argue all night long as to whether or not app2sd is needed on the nexus one, but all I can say is that I love having it on mine. For one thing, I don't have to constantly check how much free space I have left on my phone nor do I have to regularly and manually clear my cache.
I know one guy on here who just got it setup on his n1 last night.
Before apps2sd, one of his apps kept crashing, after getting it setup on his nexus, he was very pleased.
kamasi36 said:
I don't know. I see a noticeable difference already in one of my apps. SPB TV doesn't crash anymore. 307mb ram and 183 rom. Cyanogen, man I don't know how you do it...I love b3 with with memory hack + apps2sd. Thanks man.
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What the **** is up with the ram?

On the nexus one there is about 500 mb of ram. Whenever I put my phone on and I kill all my tasks, I only have 120 mb. This is not the biggest problem because after about 30 minutes of using the phone, no matter if I kill all the apps, the ram goes to 70mb - 79mb.

Android 2.2 should fix this.
Or you can use a custom ROM such as cyanogen, with which i have over 230MB free RAM after closing apps

There are already a million and now one threads on this subject, search and you shall find all you could ever care to know about the subject.

You should be using the RAM, not freeing it. The only way you lose battery is if the Application/Widget is downloading or using the CPU/GPU. On your PC, do you go to task manager and kill apps every time?

I know it's a hard habit to kick coming from a G1 where it seemed necessary. But on a Nexus, you really don't need to. The only times I have to use it are when an application hangs.

What the **** is up with everyone not wanting the memory in their phones/computers to be used? That is what it's for! If its not being used it is going to waste.
If you guys are using task managers you have failed.

lol chillout!
People are obviously fine with it and welcome not to moan on the internet to people about not being able to use it.
Install a custom ROM if you want to dry your tears about not being able to use the extra RAM.

mets3214 said:
On the nexus one there is about 500 mb of ram. Whenever I put my phone on and I kill all my tasks, I only have 120 mb. This is not the biggest problem because after about 30 minutes of using the phone, no matter if I kill all the apps, the ram goes to 70mb - 79mb.
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Killing apps is 100% unnecessary on the Nexus One.
It actually wastes MORE power to kill apps and have them restart all the time, than it does to just leave them alone.
For the next week, uninstall all your task killer apps.
Then tell us how it went.

Ram goblins got to your ram, oh noes!

I'll answer his question. currently the nexus one only has half of the 512mb of RAM freed up, so you only have 256 mb right now. the next update is freeing up the other half.

RogerPodacter said:
I'll answer his question. currently the nexus one only has half of the 512mb of RAM freed up, so you only have 256 mb right now. the next update is freeing up the other half.
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Sorry, you're right we didn't really directly answer his question I guess. But the point is, people shouldn't be looking at the free memory measurements anymore. Anything that isn't being used by applications will be used by the operating system for caching and other such things (this is a good thing). As soon as another applications starts up and needs that space, the kernel will give it up. Free memory doesn't use less power than memory that is in use by a sleeping process.
While you are correct that not all of the current memory of the device is addressable with the current kernel, when this limitation is removed in the next update (assuming it will be) it still wont solve the OP's problem. All it is going to mean is that even more memory will be taken up as cache space and buffers by the kernel and applications will be closed down even later so you'll still see a pretty small amount of "free" memory. If close to half of the RAM is going completely unused, then that's a lost opportunity by the kernel to cache or prefetch something.
Don't use task managers. They aren't needed and provide nothing. All they do is give fodder to the Steve Jobs' of the world that claim you need to manually micro manage memory on android devices as evidence by the number of people that use them.

Nerd rage much?

So just to clarify, apps don't really "run" in the background, they are just more readily available if they have ram dedicated to them? I'd rather not use a task manager but if it saves any of this pathetic battery I would sacrifice some performance...

DMaverick50 said:
So just to clarify, apps don't really "run" in the background, they are just more readily available if they have ram dedicated to them? I'd rather not use a task manager but if it saves any of this pathetic battery I would sacrifice some performance...
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The only thing task managers do is kill your battery. If you find that your phone is sluggish , doesn't respond well etc, uninstall some bad apps. Some apps aren't coded very well and remain active all the time killing your battery. Having an app checking all the time if another app is killing your battery is also killing your battery.
Bottom line: Don't use a task killer unless you find it absolutely neccesary to keep your phone running at decent speed.

DMaverick50 said:
So just to clarify, apps don't really "run" in the background, they are just more readily available if they have ram dedicated to them? I'd rather not use a task manager but if it saves any of this pathetic battery I would sacrifice some performance...
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Look at the link in my signature, it'll explain how the android system manages programs.

More memory

I'm sure this will have been asked before but I can't find the answer.
Can I physically put more memory in my galaxy? I love this phone and the features are great but I always have to be careful what I install due to getting low memory, I have frozen a few apps I rarely use and uninstalled othersi can live without, now my memory free averages at about 70mb. I dont want a big mem kernel as I use 720p recording a lot and don't want to lose this feature. would love to open this phone and stick in some bigger memory. Please help me
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

It´s not possible to add more memory, but what would you like to do that requires more memory?

leroys said:
I'm sure this will have been asked before but I can't find the answer.
Can I physically put more memory in my galaxy? I love this phone and the features are great but I always have to be careful what I install due to getting low memory, I have frozen a few apps I rarely use and uninstalled othersi can live without, now my memory free averages at about 70mb. I dont want a big mem kernel as I use 720p recording a lot and don't want to lose this feature. would love to open this phone and stick in some bigger memory. Please help me
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
Click to expand...
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Installing apps doesn't mean you'll "lose" ram and that it wouldn't be usable..and unused ram in Linux is wasted ram. Check out some posts about Android memory management, search for LMK, minfree. And keep in mind that Android isn't windows what comes to ram etc..
ps. 70MB of free ram is surely enough for lagfree system..
Sent from my CM'd SGS

I have been playing APE lossless audio files in power amp and I have been getting glitches in the audio, once I clear the memory they play perfectly until memory goes under about 45mb then the glitches come back, also some navigation software runs better with more memory, can you tell me why it is not possible, can the memory be accessed and removed without damage to the device?
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App

CM11 High RAM Usage

I've noticed lately that CM11 is using abnormal amounts of memory. It doesn't slow my phone down all that much, but it's just bothering me because I know its not supposed to. Before I got this G2, my S3 ran CM10.2 and it used a ton less memory (between 4 and 600mb).
And from what I know, KitKat is supposed to use less resources.
I also have a normal amount of processes running. Just basic apps like Snapchat, Kik, Voice and Voice+, and all the normal Google services that always run. I even uninstalled FB cause I barely use it and at any given time it would be using up 70mb, and it made no difference,
I cant just keep killing my apps cause they reopen automatically. Even when I do, it doesn't even make a temporary difference. Even when I kill the cached apps.
Its just really bothering me. Any suggestions?
I have a couple screenshots.

free ram = wasted ram

sawyerbenjamin said:
I've noticed lately that CM11 is using abnormal amounts of memory. It doesn't slow my phone down all that much, but it's just bothering me because I know its not supposed to. Before I got this G2, my S3 ran CM10.2 and it used a ton less memory (between 4 and 600mb).
And from what I know, KitKat is supposed to use less resources.
I also have a normal amount of processes running. Just basic apps like Snapchat, Kik, Voice and Voice+, and all the normal Google services that always run. I even uninstalled FB cause I barely use it and at any given time it would be using up 70mb, and it made no difference,
I cant just keep killing my apps cause they reopen automatically. Even when I do, it doesn't even make a temporary difference. Even when I kill the cached apps.
Its just really bothering me. Any suggestions?
I have a couple screenshots.
Click to expand...
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The amount of free ram looks fine. That's what I get on my end with stock LG G2
Sent from my LG-D801 using Tapatalk

It bothers me so much that people still don't know how Android runs and manages resources.
It's not Windows, it's not MacOS, it's Android, it allocates everything on the RAM so that it can be accessed faster, and this improves load times, multitasking, etc.
Free RAM is pretty much wasted RAM and please, do not install task killers nor kill tasks manually. Android does it alone and does it better. Whenever it needs free RAM it will shut down something that's not being used and haven't been used in a long time to free that RAM up.

As two others have stated, free RAM is wasted RAM. I only have about 600mb of RAM free on the Optimus G3 ROM.

prowsterz said:
As two others have stated, free RAM is wasted RAM. I only have about 600mb of RAM free on the Optimus G3 ROM.
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I hope I don't sound stupid. It's just more of an OCD thing. Just a couple days ago and prior to that, my phone stuck around 750-850mb. Now its using a over a gig 100% of the time and its just bothering me. I figured there was an actual reason for this. Maybe its from Xposed modules? I never noticed it until I started using Xposed a couple days ago.
But its not a big deal I guess.

sawyerbenjamin said:
I hope I don't sound stupid. It's just more of an OCD thing. Just a couple days ago and prior to that, my phone stuck around 750-850mb. Now its using a over a gig 100% of the time and its just bothering me. I figured there was an actual reason for this. Maybe its from Xposed modules? I never noticed it until I started using Xposed a couple days ago.
But its not a big deal I guess.
Click to expand...
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If you're not having actual performance issues as a result, then don't worry about it. If you always have X amount of free RAM, then you don't need that RAM. As has already been stated, free/unused RAM is wasted RAM. Something most people don't understand about how computers work is that storage and RAM and two completely separate things. Storage is just that - STORAGE. Nothing runs directly from storage. RAM is where things run. When you - or the system - goes to run an application, it gets read from the slow storage and loaded into the much faster RAM and runs from there. This is why more RAM is better (notice I didn't say more free RAM). It allows more applications to be cached in RAM ready to run fast - or to keep more services loaded to allow for more cool features.
More RAM is better, but if you're always clearing it out to keep X amount free and then reloading the same apps again, you are doing yourself no favors from a performance perspective. I am sure you have plenty available at all times for the system to load new apps. It will kill them on its own either when it needs to, or when it sees that haven't accessed that app after a certain amount of time.

rebar71 said:
If you're not having actual performance issues as a result, then don't worry about it. If you always have X amount of free RAM, then you don't need that RAM. As has already been stated, free/unused RAM is wasted RAM. Something most people don't understand about how computers work is that storage and RAM and two completely separate things. Storage is just that - STORAGE. Nothing runs directly from storage. RAM is where things run. When you - or the system - goes to run an application, it gets read from the slow storage and loaded into the much faster RAM and runs from there. This is why more RAM is better (notice I didn't say more free RAM). It allows more applications to be cached in RAM ready to run fast - or to keep more services loaded to allow for more cool features.
More RAM is better, but if you're always clearing it out to keep X amount free and then reloading the same apps again, you are doing yourself no favors from a performance perspective. I am sure you have plenty available at all times for the system to load new apps. It will kill them on its own either when it needs to, or when it sees that haven't accessed that app after a certain amount of time.
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I am 100% fully aware of what Random Access Memory is and what purpose it serves, and I can distinguish it from storage. I know far more than the very basics of a computer. I was just wondering what was using all the extra RAM up. It was bothering me because prior, my phone was using a lot less. Idk why you assumed I didn't understand what RAM and storage was.

sawyerbenjamin said:
I am 100% fully aware of what Random Access Memory is and what purpose it serves, and I can distinguish it from storage. I know far more than the very basics of a computer. I was just wondering what was using all the extra RAM up. It was bothering me because prior, my phone was using a lot less. Idk why you assumed I didn't understand what RAM and storage was.
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Read your own post again and see if you can figure out why i thought it needed explaining.
Sent from my LG-D801 using XDA Free mobile app

rebar71 said:
Read your own post again and see if you can figure out why i thought it needed explaining.
Sent from my LG-D801 using XDA Free mobile app
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Yeah I didn't mention storage once.

sawyerbenjamin said:
Yeah I didn't mention storage once.
Click to expand...
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EDIT: No, you didn't mention storage. But just by asking the question, people generally are demonstrating a clear lack of understanding about how computers work. I usually just keep quiet, but every now and then, I feel compelled to fully explain it in the hope that the topic won't return. Alas, it always does.
I apologize that you were the unlucky one that I singled out on this occasion. I did not mean to offend. I thought I was being helpful. Maybe I helped someone else.
Sent from my LG-D801 using XDA Free mobile app

What's your idle ram usage?

See title. Feel like the ram usage on my note 4 is high even when "idle". Please see attached image for details.
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
PS any tips on how to free up ram would be appreciated.

research47 said:
See title. Feel like the ram usage on my note 4 is high even when "idle". Please see attached image for details.
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
PS any tips on how to free up ram would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Mine is using 1.77GB. Using Dynamic Kat ROM.

research47 said:
See title. Feel like the ram usage on my note 4 is high even when "idle". Please see attached image for details.
Thanks in advance for any feedback.
PS any tips on how to free up ram would be appreciated.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I read on these devices it's supposed to be high. Sounds counter intuitive, but it allows quick access to ram or something along those lines. A quick Google search should help you out.
Sent from my SM-N910T using XDA Free mobile app

Mine is 2.38.
Btw, this is mine without clearing anything, I ran all my normal apps and kept them in memory. Sure, I can get low memory if I clear my recently used apps, but that is not reality.

unused ram is wasted ram so you don't have to worry about it

Stock rooted. 1.56gb idle

Thanks for all the reply. Thought there was something wrong with my device.

I'm on stock rom and I've debloated my device my self. I deleted apps and services, turned off other things that I couldn't delete. My RAM usually sits between 1.16Gb to 1.42Gb.

worrying about idle ram is like worrying about benchmarks...
both mean nothing in a normally functioning phone..

I just posted this answer on reddit, but I guess I will try and spread the word a little more so that these posts stop coming up.
Android uses the Linux kernel, in the world of Linux/ Unix for those that do not know.... Unused RAM is wasted RAM. You phone will remove stuff from RAM if its getting to low on free space.

Colnart said:
unused ram is wasted ram so you don't have to worry about it
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Yep. If that bar isn't sitting at 2.4 to 2.7, you're not using it enough. The entirety of the RAM is getting refreshed every cycle regardless of whether or not it's being used.
dabbill said:
I just posted this answer on reddit, but I guess I will try and spread the word a little more so that these posts stop coming up.
Android uses the Linux kernel, in the world of Linux/ Unix for those that do not know.... Unused RAM is wasted RAM. You phone will remove stuff from RAM if its getting to low on free space.
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This is true of any modern OS. Even Windows Vista or newer, which will cache commonly used apps in RAM to allow for faster app starts.

ATnTdude said:
Yep. If that bar isn't sitting at 2.4 to 2.7, you're not using it enough. The entirety of the RAM is getting refreshed every cycle regardless of whether or not it's being used.
This is true of any modern OS. Even Windows Vista or newer, which will cache commonly used apps in RAM to allow for faster app starts.
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I would agree, that Vista and newer has gotten better, but I would still not consider them any where near as good as Linux / Unix.