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hi everybody.
i am thinking about to buy a htc wizard (qtek 9100).
i now noticed that the qtek s110 has 416mhz, but the 9100 only 200.
is there a big difference between the two, or is the 200mhz processor as fast as the one with 416?
thx
the Wizard has a differend type of processor than the s110. Its kind of like Intel vs AMD. The mhz doesn't mean it is slower.
I think the wizard is slightly quicker then the intel one but what slows it down is lack of programs using the texas instruments processor extensions and the
non persistant program memory which slows the program loading times quite a lot.
but u get more use out of your batt as it doesnt reserve 30% batt life for ram.
Does the universal lose everything if the battery goes to 0% ? I thought the wizard and the universal were both the same in that they retained their status even on no power ?
knowsleyroader: you are correct. They use persistent memory that will be retained without power. They're slower as a result, but the benefit is what is considered a marginal battery life improvement.
All should read this:
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/11/17/494177.aspx
Wizard is generally considered fine for cpu power. I've never used it, but most seem to say it's fine on everything except Skype (which some have found ok). Since you can't get another device with WM5 of the Magician's size (I think), the Wizard is pretty much your only choice right now.
Unless you've got a 700w
V
Pocket Quake runs at a respectable 8.5fps (default settings), and 14.5 (optiomized settings, no sound). I have the Spb Benchmarks (overview below) if you want them.
I find the device slow, but it is not the processor that really slows it down, it is the IO.
On the keeps memory on power-off. I have read reports of the battery needing some fiddling inorder to recharge the battery if you let it run flat.
Spb Benchmark index 232.4 (iPAQ 3650 scored 1000)
CPU index 927.45 (iPAQ 3650 scored 1000)
File system index 94.72 (iPAQ 3650 scored 1000)
Graphics index 2862.38 (iPAQ 3650 scored 1000)
Platform index 273.92 (iPAQ 3650 scored 1000)
intel vs AMD. The mhz doesn't mean it is slower
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
speed is everything my friend
well i had a xda2 mini s had it not even a week and took it back to the o2 shop . and told the guy that the phone is far to slow for what i use it for . so i changed it for a xda2i . and now i am very happy with it never crashes and does not hang up while changing screens like the mini .
intel (r) pxa275
speed 520mhz
128mb ram
thats the speed of my 2i . in my eyes the mini is a phone and just a phone . it cant handle being a pda also . it just dont have the power . and as for the slide out keypad what a joke . my one was starting to get slack in no time . i just could not imagine how this phone would look 6 months down the line of day to day use . be smart and get something that works . ok it looks good but its slooooow
my 0.002 pence worth
musiccube said:
intel vs AMD. The mhz doesn't mean it is slower
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
speed is everything my friend
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Speed may well be to you, personally i find the functionality more important, but the MHz quote says that processor speed doesn't mean the device operation is slower. it uses a different architecture so the clock speed doesn't need to be as high for the same output (CPS would be a better measure of cpu performance IMO then all processors would be on the same scoresheet regardless of technology or clockspeed)
http://forum.xda-developers.com/posting.php?mode=reply&t
Sorry to drag this off topic a little, but I was reading the XDA-developer encylopedia, which gives claims duel core. Is it? And does duel core in the mobile world mean the same as in the desktop?
Thanks, Mike
Having owned quite a number of Pocket PCs and Windows Mobile devices over the years I have come across this sort of conversation a number of times.
The real point from my experience is that QVGA devices such as the Wizard / Mini S do not need the speed of say a VGA device such as the Exec / HP hx4705. Speed is needed on VGA devices due to the quantity of pixels that need to be updated on the screen. My HP 2210 QVGA device was quicker in a number of ways than my hx4705 and there latter machine was quoted to have more than a 50% speed increase.
I do notice my Wizard slow a little using PocketInformant when I need to filter or search. That to me looks like processor speed. But for that I get a good battery life while using the phone side quite a bit each day (it's a work sim card in there, fully paid for). My Exec however is quicker at data sorting, filtering etc. but relatively slow to update the screen, rotate the screen etc. Exactly the same as my hx4705, also VGA running the last version of Windows Mobile.
I have no reservation in suggesting the Wizard to people wanting to do a bit of everything. I haven't tried playing a film on it yet but I would expect that to be ok as long as the film is encoded to suite. But power users would likely look to either a more powerful solo device or have a second device to compliment it.
I was just lucky that O2 in the UK are offering such rediculous prices for both the Wizard and the Exec that I could get both.
acetuk said:
Wizard / Mini S do not need the speed of say a VGA device such as the
of everything. I haven't tried playing a film on it yet but I would expect that
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Except the magican (a model down, sports the same size screen) is 400MHz.
That's a very interesting point. But is it the same make of processor? I expect it was running a Xscale processor.
It might well be that HTC decided / realised that for a phone edition model with a small QVGA screen pure raw speed is not really needed. By moving to the TI processor they kept to about the same speed for most real world scenarios (loading programs, looking up contacts, making calls and so on) and then gained elsewhere (received good battery life etc).
All I can really say is that my wizard is faster in certain core areas of these devices (screen redrawing for example) but loses out on pure raw data processing. But as I said at the start of this I don't read the benchmarks. My wizard is a fraction of a second slower than my exec at loading PocketInformant which I can live with.
I think the wizard is positioned correctly after one week of using it. But then I never used the predecessor so I can't compare the two. Having come from one of the fastest non-phone devices on the market though I can't say I'm really noticing the slowness of these devices. Not out in the real world when I am using them.
Now, I just have to sell on my hx4705. And to say that must mean I am happy!
Thanks for the interesting conversation - I'm new here but already feel at home.
well, but I heard alot that the MDAcII with its TI CPU is too slow to open large documents and so is useless for bussiness and that seems to be a problem of the CPU-power!
I've been using a Blue Angel for the last year and actually think that the Wizard is faster for my own use, as a Phone first and PDA second the market that IMHO opinion the Wizard is actually aimed at.
I use SPB to close down apps properly that I use infrequently (word/Excel etc..) and just minimize apps that I use frequently such as Outlook/Phone and my Wizard flies. Even TomTom5 appears to run much faster than on Blue Angel with route replanning completing in the blink of an eye.
Fair enough if you are asking it to run intensive apps a 2i or universal will be faster but those devices are more PDA than Phone whereas the Wizard is the reverse.
For reference mine is an O2 UK supplied XDA Mini S branded device on standard O2 UK rom with all O2 active rubbish removed. Even the battery life beats my SE k750i mobile it has just replaced!
wilesd said:
I've been using a Blue Angel for the last year and actually think that the Wizard is faster for my own use, as a Phone first and PDA second the market that IMHO opinion the Wizard is actually aimed at.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ooh so I'm not alone!
Same here, especially for browsing heavy sites. The BA would take ages formatting the pages, the Wizard also takes time but less. Interface seems faster to me too (once apps loaded - loading time is dependent on the new memory architecture).
Browsing photos with Resco photo explorer is about the same.
The only point on where I can see big difference is video playback. I haven't been able to play a single video without hangups yet, either by using the same ones than I had on the BA or by trying to reencode differently (using TCPMP). A video that would play at 125% on the BA runs maybe at 75-80%. That annoys me because I would like to use it to show videos to people as a demo, which obviously looks less serious if not smooth.
I wonder if that is TCPMP-related or OMAP-related...
BUT, battery life is great!!
Hey guys, i'm considering 'upgrading'(?) from an xda2i to the mini s, and i've noticed you talking about different programs running faster/slower on either device. Was wondering if you could give me a 'rule of thumb' as to which programs would have loss performance in the mini s compared the the 2i?
Thanks
kilrah said:
wilesd said:
I've been using a Blue Angel for the last year and actually think that the Wizard is faster for my own use, as a Phone first and PDA second the market that IMHO opinion the Wizard is actually aimed at.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ooh so I'm not alone!
Same here, especially for browsing heavy sites. The BA would take ages formatting the pages, the Wizard also takes time but less. Interface seems faster to me too (once apps loaded - loading time is dependent on the new memory architecture).
Browsing photos with Resco photo explorer is about the same.
The only point on where I can see big difference is video playback. I haven't been able to play a single video without hangups yet, either by using the same ones than I had on the BA or by trying to reencode differently (using TCPMP). A video that would play at 125% on the BA runs maybe at 75-80%. That annoys me because I would like to use it to show videos to people as a demo, which obviously looks less serious if not smooth.
I wonder if that is TCPMP-related or OMAP-related...
BUT, battery life is great!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Similar experience here - my former PDA is a Dell X50V with a 624Mhz processor and PocketPC 2003SE, at times it's surprisingly sluggish. However, the wizard is more responsive - although I miss the VGA screen in general I prefer the Wizard for browsing.
My only complaint about the processor so far (I haven't tried gaming) is that it's not much good for playing back wmvs. I've not experimented much with it but this is an area where the X50V is very good - it can play highish bitrate WMVs no sweat. The Wizard seems to struggle, even with lower resolution and bitrate wmvs it stutters.
John
About this, how to overclock the wizard ... ??!!
musiccube said:
intel (r) pxa275
speed 520mhz
128mb ram
thats the speed of my 2i .....
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The Universal has all that too. But, guess what, the overall experience of that "flagship" is slower than the Wizard. Which goes to show, the CPU clock speed has b*gger all to do with how a device performs in the real world.
I'm looking to replace my Magician with the Trinity. I've had some good times with my Magician and have been extremely happy with it. The Trinity has everything I want in an upgrade, but I'm worried about its processor compared to the Intel XScale 416MHz. How does the Samsung 400MHz compare? Has anyone owned the Magician as well that can compare the two? I want something at least as fast as the Magician for use in windows apps, and gaming performance in particular. If anyone has been able to play with both devices I would really appreciate your thoughts about the speed compared between the two.
Thanks
I'm also interested, having a Magician. I'm looking for a good reason (or rather excuse) to upgrade!
I don't have a Magician, but if you find a benchmark you'd like me to run on my Trinity, I'd be more than happy to help you compare them.
please use sk tools. Benchmarking is possible with trial version.
http://s-k-tools.com/index.html?m_downloads.html#tools
Thank you,
I upgraded from a Magician to the black beauty Trinity...
And haven't regretted it for a minute. The only downside for me was that i had to get used to a dutch OS instead of english, because in the Netherlands a WWE version is sadly not available.
As far as performance goes, i can tell you that literally everything on the Trinity runs smooth, fast en stable. Of course there are some fine-tuning bugs to be ironed out, but hey: was the Magician that good on it's first ROM ?
The only things that have annoyed me so far, are the horribly slow response to scrolling using the wheel (and the Dpad aswell in fact), and the fact that we have to deal with the MS BT stack which will always have it's bugs and annoyances.
The processor can do a lot at the same time without slowing the device down (only exception being A2DP), and i was pretty suprised how much i could install into main memory on this device. It has around 60 Megs free storage at first use, and that's almost double the size of the 'storage'partition on the initial Magician (half of the 64 Megs RAM).
Batterytime is also significantly better than that of a Magician (even so with having a UMTS radio on all the time), and the screen is just awesome
WiFi has great reception, and the device is much nicer to handle than a Magician due to it's more rounded curves and bigger/more buttons and WM5 being much more focused to one-handed operation (which works very nice).
Absolutely great device i must say, so i'll recommend: take the plunge !
I just hope that a well-tuned ROM that fixes the little annoyances will be released soon, so this baby can take me through at least the next 3 years. If that ROM contains GPS as well, it'll make the P3600 the ultimate killer device (but i can live without, as using a BT GPS mouse works just as well for me).
Benchmarking
Thanks for your info, Moaske.
Another excellent benchmarking tool is SPB Benchmark. You can download this software for free at: http://www.spbsoftwarehouse.com/downloads/benchmark/SpbBenchmark1.6_setup.zip
mikesol, If you could also please post your benchmark results with this software we would greatly appreciate it!
Moaske said:
As far as performance goes, i can tell you that literally everything on the Trinity runs smooth, fast en stable. Of course there are some fine-tuning bugs to be ironed out, but hey: was the Magician that good on it's first ROM ?
QUOTE]
Thanks Moaske. Yes, I agree that no PDA is perfect from the first ROM. What I am concerned about is about HTC releasing ROMs, or rather their lack of doing so. I purchased my Jam from one of the first batches to arrive in the UK, and Imate released regular ROM updates for the first few months. AFAIK, HTC have not yet released a ROM update for any of their devices. I am also not so sure of HTC's level and commitment of support. The one time I had to send the Jam in for repairs, I was very pleased with the way Imate handled the matter. Still to be seen if HTC can do the same.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
benchmark
Well, I use both (JAM and P3600)
Did the benchmark per your request (attached), with SK Tools
Enjoy
Obviosly the Jam is way faster than the trinity i some areas
RAM access Speed index; Jam 6806, Trinity 1644
Main storage (read)KB/sec; Jam 7236, Trinity 3032
Storage Card (write); Jam 671, Trinity 154
In two areas the Trinity is faster:
Main storage (write)KB/sec; Jam 269, Trinity 493
Draw bitmaps Speed index; Jam 424, Trinity 542
The big question is of course: what does these differences mean in real life use?
@tomerbn thank you for your help.
in my oppinion there will be no remarkable difference in daily use. maybe programs will be opened a little bit slower but without a stopwatch you don´t realize it.
a fine toy and for sure my new phone
fore comparision data from artemis with omap 200 cpu:
Integer;102.3848;Moves/25 usec
Floating point;2.524;MWIPS
RAM access;231;Speed index
Draw bitmaps;377;Speed index
Main storage (write); 638.60;KB/sec
Main storage (read);2094.78;KB/sec
Well it's fast until you try to playback videos with TCPMP.
The OMAP 850 beats the Samsung 400 Mhz.
This cpu is no good for video and relies on IMAGEON coprocessor for hardware acceleration. And as long as it's not working...
http://www.corecodec.com/forum/index.php?topic=3688.0
did you activate GDI ?
what do you mean by "activate GDI"?
Hi,
I traded my Magician to a white Trinity last week. Trinity is cool!
I have no clue on the comparison figures; but from my own usage, I think that:
1. Trinity runs WM5 smoothly, better than O2 Atom
2. screen display is cool, but nearly blackout under sunlight
3. BT 2.0 (and A2DP) is good; now I can listen to my fav songs via BT
I am very happy with Trinity!
meroupow said:
what do you mean by "activate GDI"?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i read in a german forum, if you activate GDI in video settings, then playback should run smoothly. i do not use tcmp so i cannot give further hints.
meroupow said:
Well it's fast until you try to playback videos with TCPMP.
The OMAP 850 beats the Samsung 400 Mhz.
This cpu is no good for video and relies on IMAGEON coprocessor for hardware acceleration. And as long as it's not working...
http://www.corecodec.com/forum/index.php?topic=3688.0
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Set it to 'RAW-framebuffer' and it will run smooth as butter
The main problem with the ATI-imageon, is that it isn't being used at firmware level (yet)... If it had, this would be one great device
tom0_1 said:
...in my oppinion there will be no remarkable difference in daily use. maybe programs will be opened a little bit slower but without a stopwatch you don´t realize it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree absolutely with that
But the slow response is not all that consistent anyway, most of the time it's response is very snappy....maybe i wan't clear about that. It's only the scrolling that responds terribly slow... and A2DP is a damn heavy task on the processor, so the little slowdown in response is less worse than i had expected...
All in all a great device; way cool upgrade, way better...
Moaske said:
Set it to 'RAW-framebuffer' and it will run smooth as butter
The main problem with the ATI-imageon, is that it isn't being used at firmware level (yet)... If it had, this would be one great device
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do not agree:
- first for best quality directdraw is better than rawframebuffer and is equivalent in terms of performance.
- second "smoth as better" except for h264, xvid, wmv... and anything that is more than 320*240. so in fact it's smooth only with divx 5, 320*240 reencoded movies.
oh let me think... it's compete crap in fact since my HP4350 bought 3 or 4 years ago is able to play whatever full divx movie without reencoding and only have 400Mhz Xscale cpu.
So i understand that re-encoding is to much a hassle for you...? And you expect full-size DVD movies to run on such an underpowered device ? Honestly; could the Magician cope with VGA or higher movies at high framerates...? Mine didn't...
Movie playback
It sounds like the general vibe here is that the Trinity pretty much sucks for playing movies compared to the XScale 416MHz. I can't figure out why HTC is going with the Samsung CPU instead of Intel for their new devices! Cheaper maybe? This device could have been so sweet if it had the right processor in it.
is this a right choice or i am wrong [samsung omnia 2] has 800 mhz processor instead of 528 mhz [htc hd has ] but does it differs allot in the speed of device and graphics please tell me and does the type of processor also make effect in speed [htc has qualcom --- samsung has marvell ]
hoss_n2 said:
is this a right choice or i am wrong [samsung omnia 2] has 800 mhz processor instead of 528 mhz [htc hd has ] but does it differs allot in the speed of device and graphics please tell me and does the type of processor also make effect in speed [htc has qualcom --- samsung has marvell ]
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I would better think about waiting for the Toshiba TG01! It has a 1GHz Snapdragon Processor and a 4.1inch screen!!!
You can see some preview videos on yout...! The video playback is extremely smooth and programs are starting right after clicking on it.
The TG01 also has a special screen from the television branch for a really good quality!
I´ll sell my Touch Hd next week on ebay and on 29.June or 30.June I´ll buy the Toshiba TG01 exclusive at the German O2 shop.
Ok the homescreen panel is not so beautiful but I am using the SPB Mobile Shell 3 so thats no problem for me
does anyone actually know what the battery life is like on the tg01, that is one of my major concerns.
The processor will make a difference, but the main reason for me to buy the Omnia 2 is the camera.
You won't have Touchflo anymore (at least for some time) but the Samsung software seems to be pretty good, perhaps even better than Touchflo (though I'm not a fan of cube interfaces).
I think the Omnia 2 will be the perfect phone for me with the better camera, a bit more speed and good battery life.
DRTigerlilly said:
does anyone actually know what the battery life is like on the tg01, that is one of my major concerns.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I had already a pre-selling version of the white tg01 in my hands (damn is this a big device compared to my HD and iphone but has as half as the thickness of the HD!!!) but of course I wasn´t able to test the battery life. But I think it´ll be good because you can choose in the options menu of toshiba that the phone should itself automaticaly slow down the procesor if there is not much speed needed and the new screen should also use less battery life (so the man at the o2 store told me that with the screen so I don´t know if it´s real^^)
Does anyone knows any better facts about it?
very impressive processor speed, but how bout the ROM and RAM size. So far I have yet to see any device that matches HD's 512MB ROM and 288MB RAM (other than HTC own Window Mobile range). It may not be relevant but to me, I feel somehow that RAM/ROM play some part too..
I am also considering the Omnia 2. I like the faster processor and AMOLED display,which in theory is much better than HD, especially in outdoor.
However, there is no mention of its RAM or ROM. There is internal storage of 2 - 16GB but not sure if this is the same as ROM.
Also, HTC qualcom is supported by Coreplayer. Not sure if the Samsung processor will be. I know frame rate might not be a problem but if the hardware is not supported, picture quality will suffer.
I am concerned with the build quality of HTC HD as I have to service mine only after two months. A search on the net suggested there are a number of HD users with hardware problems also.
I just hope Samsung mobile phones have better quality.
forumx said:
I am also considering the Omnia 2. I like the faster processor and AMOLED display,which in theory is much better than HD, especially in outdoor.
However, there is no mention of its RAM or ROM. There is internal storage of 2 - 16GB but not sure if this is the same as ROM.
Also, HTC qualcom is supported by Coreplayer. Not sure if the Samsung processor will be. I know frame rate might not be a problem but if the hardware is not supported, picture quality will suffer.
I am concerned with the build quality of HTC HD as I have to service mine only after two months. A search on the net suggested there are a number of HD users with hardware problems also.
I just hope Samsung mobile phones have better quality.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i think that the type of the processor also is important not only its speed [like computer processors we have two processors have same speed but one acts faster than the other it depends how it is made and the compatibility of the programs with it
KayK said:
very impressive processor speed, but how bout the ROM and RAM size. So far I have yet to see any device that matches HD's 512MB ROM and 288MB RAM (other than HTC own Window Mobile range). It may not be relevant but to me, I feel somehow that RAM/ROM play some part too..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Rom and Ram size is nearly the same! 512MB Rom and 256MB RAM. (I´m talking about the Toshiba TG01
So I´ll wait till it comes out on the 29th this month in germany and then I´ll buy it...
Hey I found someting really interesting: The Acer M900!
What do you think about this device???
PocketNow said the acer felt cheap, and i think it has less memory than the HD, which is a bummer. The only upside about it are US 3g bands.
acer's soft ware sucks and no thing is like htc even the partially good samsung omnia 2
hoss_n2 said:
acer's soft ware sucks and no thing is like htc even the partially good samsung omnia 2
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Did you see the videos of TouchWiz 2.0? Looks like it goes a lot deeper than TouchFlo. I think the Omnia II could be a lot better than HTC's phones.
Ok I´ll forget the acer...80MB Ram
So I´ll buy the Toshiba TG01 when it´s available in Germany at the 29.06. and than I will see how good it is. If it´s not good enough I can also sell it somewhere and buy me the touch pro 2 instead of it
I used to have the omnia and would never buy a samsung again. Apart from the excellent camera I hated it particulary because of the poor battery life...I had to charge it everyday. Plus the touchscreen wasn't that responsive and I kept losing the stylus because there was no storage on the phone. Im happy with the HD at present albeit it's not perfect.
I just bought and sold a Samsung i8910 (Omnia HD). Symbian just doesnt cut it as a touchscreen OS for me.
However, the AMOLED screen was gorgeous, even though it was lower res than the HD, it still looked that little bit crisper and more vibrant. Definitely a feature worth looking into for our next devices. Omnia 2 looks the part, but Samsung have notoriously poor resale value compared to HTC/Nokia etc as well as not having ROM cooks like on xda (unless im mistaken..).
The i8910HD would have been the perfect phone with WM (or Android) instead of Symbian....
It's a shame that they put such a bad OS on the only phone with perfect hardware... I hate Samsung for this (but I'll probably buy the Omnia II anyway...).
The i900 Omnia is/was probably one ofthe best-selling WM device ever and there is some ROM-cooking going on, e.g. over at modaco.com.
I think with the Omnia II and Omnia HD, the Samsung community will grow a lot.
What is AMOLED and is it possible to run word excel etc files on symbian?
maati said:
Did you see the videos of TouchWiz 2.0? Looks like it goes a lot deeper than TouchFlo. I think the Omnia II could be a lot better than HTC's phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
it would be better in some things but not in all hd is bigger in screen touch flo is bitter and easier hd has extra rams to be used for graphics acceleration and enhance speed as said by gsm arena
Well, 0.1" doesn't matter, and it still has the same resolution. It has a faster processor, thus the RAM also won't matter, graphics acceleration will probably be faster.
TouchFlo is nice, but I think the Samsung interface is at least as good, it goes a lot deeper than TouchFlo (but doesn't look as nice).
I'm still undecided, maybe I'll stick with the HD and wait for something that's even better than the Omnia II.
As I know, IPhone 3G runs on 400 MHz processor (based on: CNet), while HTC Hero runs on 528 MHz processor, but as far as I knows, IPhone games are much more better and run smoothly, while games in Android devices like Raging Thunder 2, Super KO Boxing runs very lag in them. Can someone explain to me why?
Thanks in advance...
Most probably the dedicated/better graphic chip inside the iPhone then htc hero has. Plus, I think iPhone has programming language (C?) which is a bit faster then android's Java.
yes.. maybe to better graphics chip...
but I think... it has to do with ... ability to program to 1 hardware!!!!! NO surprises!
iphone OS is on ... one phone!!!
android is on so many different phones with different features and hardware and limits and powers.
if you are a programmer... looking to develop a new game of yours...
On the iphone, you know exactly what to expect and how to make your game perform to the best it can.
Now, try to imagine developing the same game for android. You have to keep in mind all the different phones..size screens, screen techs, graphic chips, CPUs, memory size, keyboard or no keyboard, trackball, optical ball, Dpad, etc etc etc... this list can drive you crazy!!!! what do you do?? You have to make decision at each turn, what you can program for; what you have to not support.
Dan330 said:
yes.. maybe to better graphics chip...
but I think... it has to do with ... ability to program to 1 hardware!!!!! NO surprises!
iphone OS is on ... one phone!!!
android is on so many different phones with different features and hardware and limits and powers.
if you are a programmer... looking to develop a new game of yours...
On the iphone, you know exactly what to expect and how to make your game perform to the best it can.
Now, try to imagine developing the same game for android. You have to keep in mind all the different phones..size screens, screen techs, graphic chips, CPUs, memory size, keyboard or no keyboard, trackball, optical ball, Dpad, etc etc etc... this list can drive you crazy!!!! what do you do?? You have to make decision at each turn, what you can program for; what you have to not support.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ahhhhh I get it..... It make sense, Thanks for the answer.
There are three reasons:
1) The iPhone CPU has a built-in Floating Point Unit (FPU), whereas the hero CPU doesn't. This means that when doing mathematics involving real numbers with a decimal point (e.g. numbers like 1.23, 3.14159, rather than integer numbers like 1, 73 and 492363), the iPhone is considerably faster, probably by an order of magnitude. 3D games make a lot of use of that kind of mathematics.
2) iPhone programs are compiled to run directly on the iPhone's CPU, whereas Android programs compiled to run on a Java Virtual Machine, which in turn runs on the Hero's CPU. This extra level of indirection means that the programs run maybe 5 - 10 times as slowly as they could if they ran directly on the CPU.
3) The iPhone has a more powerful GPU (Graphics Processing Unit) - this means that it is capable of drawing more things to the screen in one frame than the Hero is.
all android phones dont have much internal storage so limates games
Sent from my aHero using the XDA mobile application powered by Tapatalk
Dan330 said:
yes.. maybe to better graphics chip...
but I think... it has to do with ... ability to program to 1 hardware!!!!! NO surprises!
iphone OS is on ... one phone!!!
android is on so many different phones with different features and hardware and limits and powers.
if you are a programmer... looking to develop a new game of yours...
On the iphone, you know exactly what to expect and how to make your game perform to the best it can.
Now, try to imagine developing the same game for android. You have to keep in mind all the different phones..size screens, screen techs, graphic chips, CPUs, memory size, keyboard or no keyboard, trackball, optical ball, Dpad, etc etc etc... this list can drive you crazy!!!! what do you do?? You have to make decision at each turn, what you can program for; what you have to not support.
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Java was supposed to be platform independand(spelling) in the beginning... oh well... the wonders of theory vs reality..
Most laggy games are laggy because of bad programming.
This can be observed in things like... 2 games/apps with similar graphics where 1 is not laggy and the other is. I've experienced this quite lot. You can make decent games with Java, especially in 3d, since it just calls "native" OpenGLES functions and doesn't have to do the rendering. If you need an extra boost you can make native libraries and supply them with your app... Of course you lose a bit of platform independence, but it's not a big deal and a mere cross compilation of that library away from porting an app to a new device with different processors.
PlanetTimmy said:
2) iPhone programs are compiled to run directly on the iPhone's CPU, whereas Android programs compiled to run on a Java Virtual Machine, which in turn runs on the Hero's CPU. This extra level of indirection means that the programs run maybe 5 - 10 times as slowly as they could if they ran directly on the CPU.
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I think that's not the problem behind this. You can write critical code in NDK so you can achieve performance.. There's a lot of videos with motorola droid/milestone games. And they are working great.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mn-XaaQXIxw
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=GUlsfP38lSM
http://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=quake+3+motorola&aq=f
Motorola Milestone has a powerful GPU (PowerVR) and kicksoff the latest snapdron enabled devices.
qualcomm always delivered poor performance in their soc solutions..
+ qualcom msm7200A lacks FPU ... what a shame... screw you crapcomm and htc (for using cheap hardware, such as soc, display,etc). i'm keep wondering why htc doesn't lunch a true super smartphone with real GPU, high quality touchscreen, etc etc. And what's strange, even if they use cheap hardware their devices are more expensive than from other manufacturers ... hahaha
I cannot understand why everyone is saying that hummingbird processor is better than snapdragon and that's why I started this thread.
I own an HD2 (snapdragon) and SGS (hummingbird).
I've run linpack and quadrant in both phones and here are the results showing that snapdragon is 4 to 5 times faster.
Hummingbird: linpack 13,864 quadrant CPU 1456
Snapdragon: linpack 63,122 quadrant CPU 4122
I'm only talking for the CPU cause if you go to 3D I'll agree that hummingbird is better (but I don't care about 3D cause I don't use my device for games)
Both phones have android 2,2 installed and I have voodoo lagfix installed in SGS
johcos said:
I cannot understand why everyone is saying that hummingbird processor is better than snapdragon and that's why I started this thread.
I own an HD2 (snapdragon) and SGS (hummingbird).
I've run linpack and quadrant in both phones and here are the results showing that snapdragon is 4 to 5 times faster.
Hummingbird: linpack 13,864 quadrant CPU 1456
Snapdragon: linpack 63,122 quadrant CPU 4122
I'm only talking for the CPU cause if you go to 3D I'll agree that hummingbird is better (but I don't care about 3D cause I don't use my device for games)
Both phones have android 2,2 installed and I have voodoo lagfix installed in SGS
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After looking into it for a while, I was focusing on what makes the Nexus One so much better than the other phones. On the chip level, I didn’t see it. Then it dawned on me to look at what Google had to say on the matter. Well, it was there in black and white. In their 20 May 2010 Developer’s Blog entry (http://android-developers.blogspot.com/2010/05/android-22-and-developers-goodies.html) they say that people could see a 2-5x speed increase. I think it is pointed out in an entry later in the blog dealing with NDK, which I initially missed: “ARM Advanced SIMD (a.k.a. NEON) instruction support The NEON instruction set extension can be used to perform scalar computations on integers and floating points. However, it is an optional CPU feature and will not be supported by all Android ARMv7-A based devices. The NDK includes a tiny library named “cpufeatures” that can be used by native code to test at runtime the features supported by the device’s target CPU.”
So, I guess this means that NEON is the difference. If your phone’s CPU has it and it’s enabled for JIT, you can expect higher Linpack numbers.
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http://www.greenecomputing.com/2010...ack-scores-so-mucher-higher-than-on-my-phone/
Now stop making topics like this.
the difference you notice is software related
If you want a real test, run a hd video on both phones, or a psx emulator and see if the nexus one is 5x faster... it is the same if not slower then the sgs
Well, SGS got hardware h264 decoding acceleration. Also, maybe you forget, but:
he Hummingbird comes with 32KB each of data and instruction caches, an L2 cache, the size of which can be customized, and an ARM® NEON™ multi-media extension.
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SAMSUNG and Intrinsity Jointly Develop the World's Fastest ARM® Cortex™-A8 Processor Based Mobile Core in 45 Nanometer Low Power Process
Advanced SIMD (NEON)
The Advanced SIMD extension, marketed as NEON technology, is a combined 64- and 128-bit single instruction multiple data (SIMD) instruction set that provides standardized acceleration for media and signal processing applications. NEON can execute MP3 audio decoding on CPUs running at 10 MHz and can run the GSM AMR (Adaptive Multi-Rate) speech codec at no more than 13 MHz. It features a comprehensive instruction set, separate register files and independent execution hardware. NEON supports 8-, 16-, 32- and 64-bit integer and single-precision (32-bit) floating-point data and operates in SIMD operations for handling audio and video processing as well as graphics and gaming processing. In NEON, the SIMD supports up to 16 operations at the same time. The NEON hardware shares the same floating-point registers as used in VFP.
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source: wiki
This means Hummingbirds are equipped with NEON. Why its not so effective/used in Quadrant/Linpack? My guess they (these benchmarks) are not compiled/optimised for Hummingbirds, just for Snapdragons.
I came from owning an iPhone and playing lots of games on it. I bought the SGS purely for the gaming performance of the Hummingbird processor.
Having seen the difference in game quality between the HTC Desire and the SGS, I know I made the right decision. Benchmarks don't mean anything.
As long as the device can run apps, games, multimedia smoothly, I dont care much about those benchmarkers, maybe they were designed and/or optimized for snapdragon prior to hummingbird.
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
i bet you anything he actually doesn't have a sgs...lol
jealousy maybe just a troll, ignore
In terms of overall smoothness (everything, not just games) the SGS is vastly superior to any other android phone I've seen (Desire included).
Darkimmortal said:
everything
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Really? You have to go all out and use the word "everything" when the phone can get major lockups?
"most things" sounds like a more reasonable and believable choice of words...
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
johcos said:
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
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Click to collapse
man. if you are not happy, then i think you should sell it. no one here will give you a satisfying answer that warm your heart. look for desire hd or something.
to answer ur questions. i get a 2100+ on quadrant. using voodoo fix and oclf on my eclaire. lag free and smooth as butter.
but either way, these test scores mean nothing. they were not designed for samusng hardware. it was designed based on htc and the snapdragon processor.
even people who use neocore for gpu are wrong. if you wana test the gpu performance, use nenamark1. the sgs gives u 49+ fps while the desire HD struggle to give u 35. while if you use neocore. the sgs gives u 56 while desire hd 58
my point is most of those software were designed with htc hardware in mind. so you cant really compare them.
just test your device for your self. apply whatever best roms you find here. if it doesnt lag and smooth for you. then ^^^^ everyone else.
the display alone is worth keepin the sgs for me. sure people might like i phone 4 display more. but nothing in my eyes come close to the contrast and colors of the super amoled. watching a movie or playing a game is a joy in this device.
hell yesterday evening a local htc store had a demo of desire hd. and the guy was nice enough to me play with it for like 1 hour.
device as a hardware look. its friggin sexy as hell. screen ? beauitful large 4.3 screen. quality colors compared to sgs ? fail. a lil slow and laggy " i am sure its because of the firmware. once roms are out, it will be faster "
i was thinking to change to desire hd honestly. but i wake away from the store kissing my sgs.
i love the desire hf look and feel. but as of now its not as smooth as my sgs. and the screen isnt as vibrant.
Psx emulator does not use the gpu...yet
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android53 said:
Psx emulator does not use the gpu...yet
Sent from my GT-I9000 using XDA App
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this. i played king of fighters on my hd2 and it was laggy as hell
smooth as butter on my galaxy s
to be honest. the day psx4droid use gpu. galaxy owners are in heaven.
Its unlikely it ever will though, even modern pc emulators barely use the gpu, only for anti aliasing
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johcos said:
My friends I do own an SGS (not happy with it thought) and the tests that I posted were run from me.
I wasn't talking about the gaming performance (I know that SGS is the best out there)
This thread was started so that we can find an answer why is this happening?
I see some answers that cover it but I believe not completely because in everyday use of the phones I see that HD2 is snappier (not much but it is) than SGS (with lagfix).
The best test I believe would be to put the phones to encode something (like a video) but I don't know any software that could do that. (If anyone knows some please point them to me and I'll be happy to post the results here)
The tests you mention with psx and multimedia won't show as what we're looking because the SGS will clearly win because of the GPU.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Why in hell woul you want to incodea video using a smartPHONE...?
It's like trying to fit your family and grocery in a sport car... not made for this bro!
stop trying to find reason to "not like" the SGS, if you don't like it, sell it and be done...
Snapdragon/Hummingbird scores in glbenchmark (nexus one/galaxy s):
integer: 20661/27624
float: 11173/7968
I guess glbenchmark uses native C code (hopefully with armv7 optimization), so the JIT compiler has no effect. From the scores it seems that the floating point unit in Snapdragon is faster - but most of the time it is not used (except video & games).
Anyway, a benchmark to measure the same algorithm in both native & java code with scalar & vector instructions would be great...
t1mman said:
Why in hell woul you want to incodea video using a smartPHONE...?
It's like trying to fit your family and grocery in a sport car... not made for this bro!
stop trying to find reason to "not like" the SGS, if you don't like it, sell it and be done...
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Click to collapse
he's not whining, well, not in the first place and i don't see any harm on that i think he's trying to UNDERSTAND reasons behind numbers and daily use with help of other people, so am i. if i had to sell phones for every problem i encounter i will problaby be without (smart)phone at this time
i don't care about benchmarks, but if you think that sgs is smoother than hd2 xda optimized (with wm 6.5 or android 2.2) you obviously never owned an hd2 i'm not talking about games, like johcos says galaxy s performance is not questionable. but android is not all about game. anyway, i don't think hardware is the problem here, sure sgs is superior in many aspects, we know that, regardless benchmarks (even if it seems here that only benchmarks where sgs win are trustworthy, others are not good, not optimized, not realistic, meaningless for real life performance etc.). with a little help from samsung and this community sgs will soon outperform (in real usage) all snapdragon phones. i hope
...when average men talk about the high tech w/o knowledge, boo
ll_l_x_l_ll said:
man. if you are not happy, then i think you should sell it. no one here will give you a satisfying answer that warm your heart. look for desire hd or something.
to answer ur questions. i get a 2100+ on quadrant. using voodoo fix and oclf on my eclaire. lag free and smooth as butter.
but either way, these test scores mean nothing. they were not designed for samusng hardware. it was designed based on htc and the snapdragon processor.
even people who use neocore for gpu are wrong. if you wana test the gpu performance, use nenamark1. the sgs gives u 49+ fps while the desire HD struggle to give u 35. while if you use neocore. the sgs gives u 56 while desire hd 58
my point is most of those software were designed with htc hardware in mind. so you cant really compare them.
just test your device for your self. apply whatever best roms you find here. if it doesnt lag and smooth for you. then ^^^^ everyone else.
the display alone is worth keepin the sgs for me. sure people might like i phone 4 display more. but nothing in my eyes come close to the contrast and colors of the super amoled. watching a movie or playing a game is a joy in this device.
hell yesterday evening a local htc store had a demo of desire hd. and the guy was nice enough to me play with it for like 1 hour.
device as a hardware look. its friggin sexy as hell. screen ? beauitful large 4.3 screen. quality colors compared to sgs ? fail. a lil slow and laggy " i am sure its because of the firmware. once roms are out, it will be faster "
i was thinking to change to desire hd honestly. but i wake away from the store kissing my sgs.
i love the desire hf look and feel. but as of now its not as smooth as my sgs. and the screen isnt as vibrant.
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Click to collapse
Honestly couldn't agree anymore, even with all the problems the SGS has. The screen+hardware combination is just too overwhelming for me to swap the phone for something else.