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I'm an intermediate (Windows) PC user and slightly more technically inclined than most of my friends and family. I bought the Dream because of it's tight integration with GMail and the promise of untold useful apps. I have some awesome apps such as 4 Timers, My Tracks, Wireless Tether, which are useful in my everyday life, and they were all free (although I donate to developers when i think its justified).
My Dream is a vastly better phone in many ways than my last (Nokia N85) and at first I enjoyed flashing new roms and the ability to change my phone in different ways.
I'm currently running Cyanogen 4.0.2 which is a great rom, but to get the most out of it and actually have a sweet running phone it seems almost required to keep up with the changes on the Dream Dev forum, read hundreds of posts, learn how to install scripts and tweek settings, add ext partitions on your sdcard for swap files, know what compcache is, etc etc.
I realise that the devs are doing everything they can to give us the best performance from our phones, and i am very grateful and applaud it. I just wish it was a little easier to keep my phone being the best it can be.
What I am really getting at is that the Dream has its obvious hardware limitations (lack of RAM and rubbish battery life being the most obvious) and I'm kind of getting to the point where I want a new phone that doesn't require so much work.
None of the recent Android phones that I have heard about offer a full 5 row qwerty keyboard. That's what i want, along with perhaps a flash on the camera and a battery that lasts a couple of days with moderate use.
I will not jump ship and go elsewhere, as I love Android, but i think a manufacturer would clean up if they released a phone with the above specs and perhaps 512mb RAM - I know i would buy it in a second, and at any price within reason.
Anyone else feel this way?
setspeed said:
I'm an intermediate (Windows) PC user and slightly more technically inclined than most of my friends and family. I bought the Dream because of it's tight integration with GMail and the promise of untold useful apps. I have some awesome apps such as 4 Timers, My Tracks, Wireless Tether, which are useful in my everyday life, and they were all free (although I donate to developers when i think its justified).
My Dream is a vastly better phone in many ways than my last (Nokia N85) and at first I enjoyed flashing new roms and the ability to change my phone in different ways.
I'm currently running Cyanogen 4.0.2 which is a great rom, but to get the most out of it and actually have a sweet running phone it seems almost required to keep up with the changes on the Dream Dev forum, read hundreds of posts, learn how to install scripts and tweek settings, add ext partitions on your sdcard for swap files, know what compcache is, etc etc.
I realise that the devs are doing everything they can to give us the best performance from our phones, and i am very grateful and applaud it. I just wish it was a little easier to keep my phone being the best it can be.
What I am really getting at is that the Dream has its obvious hardware limitations (lack of RAM and rubbish battery life being the most obvious) and I'm kind of getting to the point where I want a new phone that doesn't require so much work.
None of the recent Android phones that I have heard about offer a full 5 row qwerty keyboard. That's what i want, along with perhaps a flash on the camera and a battery that lasts a couple of days with moderate use.
I will not jump ship and go elsewhere, as I love Android, but i think a manufacturer would clean up if they released a phone with the above specs and perhaps 512mb RAM - I know i would buy it in a second, and at any price within reason.
Anyone else feel this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can always just load a rom that is stable and one you like and leave it. Your not forced to always update. If you always want the newest and greatest then you have to update, we all knew that when we started doing this.
The unfortunate thing is that ALL roms i've tried have problems with them - things that dont work, bugs introduced when things are changed. And the devs fix some of the probs in the next release, but then new bugs become apparent.
I know this is the nature of development, and I understand this is only way devs can work to push things forward. But it means living with bugs or upgrading the rom to the next version.
I've not found a rom that has the stabililty/simplicity i really want to just use the phone, and not have to mess around with it all the time, or get annoyed because it wont keep programs like the browser running when you change to do something else, or put up with not being able to rely on the phone for its core function of making and receiving calls and lagging left right & centre.
I think that Android's true requirements are beyond the Dream's hardware - and much as devs try, they will never get past that fact, they will just find progressively better workarounds which "sort of" do the job.
If I were you I would go with an older build instead of a newer one that still has bugs. I'm still on Cyanogens 3.9.5 and have no problems with it at all, no bugs or nothing and happy with it. There is also old dude's builds that I use to be on a long time ago that was stable with no bugs also. But of course since those are older builds it might be hard to find, but if your wanting to take a step back and go to something stable and no bugs let me know I still got all roms on my pc at home.
I am running cyan 4.02 and have no problems whatsoever from it, you really don't have to stay on top off it at all times since you are more technical than most as you say, you can turn around and read the first post and the change log and have a good idea of what is going on. You might have a problem with the costant devolpment but I find it great that people are taking the time to get the android platform better than it was in the beginning, don't be suprised if people from google are on here taking ideas and hard work to make the general source better. The better android gets will only get better with more devolpment, remember the magic and hero just came out still basiclly running the same base as we are. Oh and some of us just got into new contracts and just got their phones and don't want to run out and buy a new phone just cause it has better specs, I want my phone to live up to it's upmost performance possibe by these work arounds so that the next android phone that I get will be 100 times better and more efficent on that hardware
supremeteam:
I think you're right - I've just restored my cyanogen 3.6.5 backup and I forgot how decent it is, using swapper it does respond quite well. To be fair, the only reason i upgraded past 3.6.5 was because I was always having a problem with the HTC_IME - it would never stay on "phone keypad" rather than "qwerty", and it also interfered with my physical keyboard by turning on the "enable prediction for qwerty keyboard" option. Other than that I never had any problems with it. This problem is a BIG annoyance though...
Oh - and the fact that the phone rings (silently) about 3 times before anything is shown on the screen or a ringtone is heard. Forgot about that one...
Also, I'd just like to add that I am in no way bashing cyanogen - i have found his roms to be the best/fastest/most stable out all i have tried, hence why i am using them. I have used a few other roms that were just a joke, with force closes all over the place, and much more serious bugs/errors than i have mentioned here.
Overall, for me, i think cyanogen is the best dev out there, consistently pushing the boundaries of performance, and regularly updating his rom. That much is obvious from the popularity of his roms' threads.
update withdraw
I agree with you that cyanogen is a great devolper but so are jac and drizzy and those other guys that are putting a ton of work into hero, maybe soon we will have a good working rosie but in the mean time I could rant how those are buggy and lag a lot, but even with a cupcake rom you have to break a few eggs to make an olmet and that are the bugs that we are gonna have to live with, truthfully I am addicted like a drug addict to all the constant update from cyan to see what is next to come, just the fact the I have been on 4.02 for a couple days is making me go through update withdraw, I flash a hero rom just for the hell of it just to see the progress, it was on my phone for maybe a whole 10 minutes before I booted my nandroid backup of 4.02
gridlock32404 said:
I am running cyan 4.02 and have no problems whatsoever from it, you really don't have to stay on top off it at all times since you are more technical than most as you say, you can turn around and read the first post and the change log and have a good idea of what is going on. You might have a problem with the costant devolpment but I find it great that people are taking the time to get the android platform better than it was in the beginning, don't be suprised if people from google are on here taking ideas and hard work to make the general source better. The better android gets will only get better with more devolpment, remember the magic and hero just came out still basiclly running the same base as we are. Oh and some of us just got into new contracts and just got their phones and don't want to run out and buy a new phone just cause it has better specs, I want my phone to live up to it's upmost performance possibe by these work arounds so that the next android phone that I get will be 100 times better and more efficent on that hardware
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I do appreciate what you're saying - that i want to have my cake and eat it! I suppose that's true in some respects. I can honestly say that my Dream is the best phone I've ever had, and the efforts the devs make to push the envelope are just amazing! Their knowledge and skills are something special - and to do it all for the love of it (and of course the respect of the community!) is definitely to be applauded.
I do also hope that google devs do read these forums, and incorporate the work into the official roms! I think they should pay the devs on xda, as they clearly do a lot of work that google ought to have done!
I hope that google does donate to these devs because they have done an amazing job with what they have to work with, I just wish I understood programming better and had the patience for it, I think my phone is better than my computer now, wait anything is better the my computer right now since I burned out my power supply. By far this is the best phone I have ever owned and now I am a android lifer because of the devs. When I first got my phone, it was worthless to me before I rooted it, good thing I found xda back when I had my wing so I knew right where to go and by the end of the first day I had it, it was already rooted
If google pays the devs or give them jobs then we will have to wait long time for our update and cool stuff, they need to just donate lots of money to them so they keep hooking us up first at xda and not the general masses all at once, I don't think they could handle the general awesomeness
setspeed said:
I'm an intermediate (Windows) PC user and slightly more technically inclined than most of my friends and family. I bought the Dream because of it's tight integration with GMail and the promise of untold useful apps. I have some awesome apps such as 4 Timers, My Tracks, Wireless Tether, which are useful in my everyday life, and they were all free (although I donate to developers when i think its justified).
My Dream is a vastly better phone in many ways than my last (Nokia N85) and at first I enjoyed flashing new roms and the ability to change my phone in different ways.
I'm currently running Cyanogen 4.0.2 which is a great rom, but to get the most out of it and actually have a sweet running phone it seems almost required to keep up with the changes on the Dream Dev forum, read hundreds of posts, learn how to install scripts and tweek settings, add ext partitions on your sdcard for swap files, know what compcache is, etc etc.
I realise that the devs are doing everything they can to give us the best performance from our phones, and i am very grateful and applaud it. I just wish it was a little easier to keep my phone being the best it can be.
What I am really getting at is that the Dream has its obvious hardware limitations (lack of RAM and rubbish battery life being the most obvious) and I'm kind of getting to the point where I want a new phone that doesn't require so much work.
None of the recent Android phones that I have heard about offer a full 5 row qwerty keyboard. That's what i want, along with perhaps a flash on the camera and a battery that lasts a couple of days with moderate use.
I will not jump ship and go elsewhere, as I love Android, but i think a manufacturer would clean up if they released a phone with the above specs and perhaps 512mb RAM - I know i would buy it in a second, and at any price within reason.
Anyone else feel this way?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
its like you read my mind
I have had the HD2 for a week now and as much as i love it, i am leaning towards returning it for the simple reason that it has windows underneath the hood.
I have had so many problems with trying to keep the data connection alive and setting up synchronisation etc - how i wish this phone had Android-like always on possibilities!
i downloaded the skyfire browser today and was blown away by its ability, but no so much when it tells me you dont have a data connection regularly!
i am sad sad sad today because when i moved my eyes from its ginormous screen to my measly ipod touch i was really unable to browse! the wifi router is brilliant too, when it works
so anyone with pearls of wisdom...convince me to stay
my biggest gripe is that out the box, i have to fiddle around with it so much just to get it to do what every consumer would like it to do - for example the missing task manager, pinch to zoom options etc
if HTC were going to make a phone of this calibre, i wish they didnt feel the need to gag it with winmo
help?
Your first impression is mostly the right one. If you like android more, return your phone ASAP as you've bought a windows phone. Misstakes happen !
lucid said:
Your first impression is mostly the right one. If you like android more, return your phone ASAP as you've bought a windows phone. Misstakes happen !
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I agree with lucid. Sounds like this simply isn't the phone for you.
Since there is task manager and pinch to zoom abilities available, it's not winmo that's gagging the phone, but HTC.
Just want you to make sure your gripes are directed at the correct place.
I have zero issues with my data connection.
I am so tired of everyone wising the Leo had shipped with Android instead of Windows Mobile. I was bored this morning and reading the rather negative reviews of the HD2 on Gizmodo and Engadget, and every other comment on those reviews is about how people love the HD2 but wish it had Android. Well, it doesn't.
I understand you actually have experienced problems with your phone, as opposed to those others who seemingly were hoping by some fluke the HD2 would come out with Android instead of WM as advertised. But then you tell us to convince you to stay with the HD2... if you really have a problem then ask for a solution. If the data issue really annoys you then why would you want someone to convince you to stay with something that doesn't serve its intended purpose for you?
I'm guessing many people bought the HD2 on a whim upon seeing the impressive spec sheet, without ever stopping to think that it ships with Windows Mobile and whether they even liked the platform. Were you one of them? Because you can just look for a solution to your data connection loss problem, instead of trying to get us to list for you the reasons why you should stay with the HD2/WM. The pros and cons of the platform are a just a Google search away.
Edit: Also, you want better pinch to zoom support, eh? Then make sure you stay away from the current latest and greatest Android handset - the mighty and revered Motorola Droid. Yeah, it has no pinch to zoom even though it has the hardware for it. See, HTC aren't so evil afterall.
Personally I think the HD2 is awesome, I know its been annoying with so many problems but there is always a fix. I haven't had any problems with the data connection or sync.
I know HTC should be the ones to sort this out instead of us, however everytime I try a new tweak it sorta makes the phone new to me again.
BSB tweaks is amazing btw, I think it should sort out everything you need, pinch to zoom and screen rotate as well as camera tweak and screen sensitivity all in one application.
Im still on the .143 Rom and theres a .201 (or whatever) rom coming out.
Its getting better and better.
I am waiting to see what the google phone has to offer but the HD2 should be able to hold its own especially since wm7 is coming out...whenever that is.
If you are really hating the HD2 then return it and get an android, winmo isnt that bad. Definite improvement if you remember the older models.
Shawn_230 said:
Edit: Also, you want better pinch to zoom support, eh? Then make sure you stay away from the current latest and greatest Android handset - the mighty and revered Motorola Droid. Yeah, it has no pinch to zoom even though it has the hardware for it. See, HTC aren't so evil afterall.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Haha true, I heard the new nexus one doesn't have pinch to zoom either. Actually saying that, they may add it in since it hasn't been released yet.
Everyone bangs-on about Android but has anyone actually lived with an Android device for say a year? No. Who knows what issues and annoyances the platform holds. If it takes off as it appears it will, with everyman and his dog seemingly wanting it, no doubt I will be trying it myself on a handset in the future but right now Win Mo holds no problems for me. The HD2 itself does, but that's for another thread.
First try to be patient and see if you can make the phone work the way you like with the all tweaks around. Have you tried BSB tweaks? most of them are there. For task manager I recommend Showcase, a great solution.
Yeah, there maybe lot's of little issues but most of them can be remedied. If you got it working right, make a full backup with something like spb backup so that everytime something goes wrong and you have to hard reset, you can have everything back in a minute.
And ofcourse better roms will surely come and htc is trying to improve the HD2. Many of the bugs are fixed in the 1.61 rom, have you tried it? not to mention we're so close to custom roms now.
I don't know how familiar you are with windows mobile. If it's your first winmo device, know that one major advantage of winmo over other OSs is that you can tweak and change a lot of things, so there's always hope for better tweaks and better software.
Lastly, if you have tried all I said and there's absolutely no way you can cope with this device, well, I guess it's just not the right device for you.
thank you to everyone that has replied
point taken about leaping without thinking, and yes i guess most issues are resolved by installing tweaks and updates - like u say wotsreallygood, its always getting better and it really is - only today i saw how brilliant it is with flash sites, after installing skyfire browser.
i guess the reason i said convince me to stay is because i want to see light at the end of the tunnel: though there might never be a stable usable android platform on the HD2 i would like to think that most of the creases with the current OS can be ironed out substantially!
and winmo6.5 is a drastic improvement from previous versions - i used to work with old winmo from the times of mda compact III - slowwwwwwwwww in a word
i totally rate HTC as a good phone manufacturer, and i would never buy a motorola even if it had diamonds for keys lol
comments appreciated though, a lot of food for thought!
mightymn said:
First try to be patient and see if you can make the phone work the way you like with the all tweaks around. Have you tried BSB tweaks? most of them are there. For task manager I recommend Showcase, a great solution.
Yeah, there maybe lot's of little issues but most of them can be remedied. If you got it working right, make a full backup with something like spb backup so that everytime something goes wrong and you have to hard reset, you can have everything back in a minute.
And ofcourse better roms will surely come and htc is trying to improve the HD2. Many of the bugs are fixed in the 1.61 rom, have you tried it? not to mention we're so close to custom roms now.
I don't know how familiar you are with windows mobile. If it's your first winmo device, know that one major advantage of winmo over other OSs is that you can tweak and change a lot of things, so there's always hope for better tweaks and better software.
Lastly, if you have tried all I said and there's absolutely no way you can cope with this device, well, I guess it's just not the right device for you.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
hi mightmn - thanks - yeah i tried the 1.61 and it seemed to make the device a little unstable for me, so i used the goldcard method and now am using 1.48 - i am yet to install bsb tweaks - i finally managed to work out how to keep my contacts synced but i think that was a problem with my outlook (version 2010 beta apparently this is a known issue and ms will not be supporting winmo sync or something like that?)
i am about to install the BSB tweaks, i think i will keep the phone and worse case scenario for me is that if i do get tired of constantly tweaking and tweaking i shall just sell it lol
And ty for advising on using spb backup, i shall search for that now and keep a regular back up thats very sound advice
Immyl,,
Keep going if you can with all the hints and tweaks on here plus BSB Tweaks. However if you are not getting on with the device then cut your losses and go with something else instead.
I managed to get a 2nd play on the HD2 today and it certainly looked impressive. I have yet to use one on a daily basis so maybe once Father Xmas has been and I get to use one on a daily basis I might well take a hammer to it!
Xperia X10 perhaps?
WB
wacky.banana said:
Immyl,,
Keep going if you can with all the hints and tweaks on here plus BSB Tweaks. However if you are not getting on with the device then cut your losses and go with something else instead.
I managed to get a 2nd play on the HD2 today and it certainly looked impressive. I have yet to use one on a daily basis so maybe once Father Xmas has been and I get to use one on a daily basis I might well take a hammer to it!
Xperia X10 perhaps?
WB
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeh wacky banana i was thinking about whether to wait for the X10 but being on tmobileuk and having worked for them i know more than likely we will be waiting til august to get it even if it launches in march! i am sticking with it and if all else fails there is always ebay...
oh btw one thing that does sway me is being able to connect my ipod to the wifi router ha that is quite a lot of fun
The winmo OS itself is so massive compare to newborns like Android and iOS, that's why it takes time to get around and even more time to get yourself situated in a comfortable position (even if it means countless tweakings). With every tweak and fix, you're suddenly opening up yourself to a whole different level of usability, way more expansive than the other aforementioned OSes. As a child, you start out with tricycles then graduate to a bicycles and at last, automobiles. Each one of those stages has their conveniences and it takes time to ease into them.
If you think it's so hard to handle the OS (or HTC for that matter), take a look at the themes and applications forum and see the countless of people in there happily using their phone through personal customization and tweakings. You can't tell me that all those additions are easily accessible with other OSes (it's possible, but arduous). What I'm trying to say is that, it's a challenge when face with obstacles, but with the help of XDA, the light at the end of the tunnel is just a few clicks away.
With that said, if you still think winmo is the root of all evil and is too complex for you to even maintain data connection (though that sounds more like a service provider problem than the phone itself), feel free to return it and get whatever phone you want.
lude219 said:
The winmo OS itself is so massive compare to newborns like Android and iOS, that's why it takes time to get around and even more time to get yourself situated in a comfortable position (even if it means countless tweakings). With every tweak and fix, you're suddenly opening up yourself to a whole different level of usability, way more expansive than the other aforementioned OSes. As a child, you start out with tricycles then graduate to a bicycles and at last, automobiles. Each one of those stages has their conveniences and it takes time to ease into them.
If you think it's so hard to handle the OS (or HTC for that matter), take a look at the themes and applications forum and see the countless of people in there happily using their phone through personal customization and tweakings. You can't tell me that all those additions are easily accessible with other OSes (it's possible, but arduous). What I'm trying to say is that, it's a challenge when face with obstacles, but with the help of XDA, the light at the end of the tunnel is just a few clicks away.
With that said, if you still think winmo is the root of all evil and is too complex for you to even maintain data connection (though that sounds more like a service provider problem than the phone itself), feel free to return it and get whatever phone you want.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
ty lude219
i think in hindsight i do agree, winmo is a lot easier to manipulate than other OS's - and even though its not always ideal, you cannot deny how powerful it is with quite a wide compatibility list
i am sticking with it for now and shall see where it goes, especially since i here there is a new ROM due soon
You could wait for the HTC Bravo.
BUT
- it maybe won't have multitouch at all, or lagging multitouch like the Hero
- it will lack a bunch of features that you get with Windows Mobile
So what you should do is: Instead of just complaining about shortcomings of the HD2, think about whether other devices would really make it better, or maybe have even more shortcomings - then decide what to do.
I also sometimes get annoyed with the HD2, but then I think of all its advantages over other devices like Android ones ot the iPhone, and in the end I always come to the conclusion that, though the HD2 is not perfect, it definitely is the one that comes closest to perfect for me, so it's the right choice - for me, at least.
The title of this thread is maybe not the right thing to put lol
Nooone needs to convince you to stay mate, if you wanted peoples opinions then thats one thing but if you arent getting on with it and would rather have a different phone or different operating system then thats totally your call and I hope you find whatever combination makes you happy.
Theres plenty of threads stating what people hate and like about the phone and how to tweak the phone and make it perform better so have a read around and then you can decide what you want to do.
Good luck
Stay
I am humbled by the moderate and patient tone of the replies in this thread.
My first instinct is to flame an attitude of 'convince me to stay'.
As it has been eloquently put, winmo is a feature not a drawback.
Too many people seem to have been caught in the crossfire of Giz-shmodo & Enfadget anti-winmo diatribe.
The way I find solutions to any problem is to STAY.
On winmo there are always many ways to skin a cat.
It would be a pity to be on a platform where there is not the possibility to solve problems other than to complain, which rarely works.
I have been using Winmo for many years and the following are my personal opinions so please don't flame me. Truth be told, were it not for the talented developers, chefs, XDA & forum users (XDA & others), I would have moved on a long time ago.
The bigggest problem, imho,is that MS focussed on developing the Winmo OS, handing it over to the Handest maker for a few dollars and thereby "hoped" that the software & hardware would function as a unified solution.
The second issue has been that MS lagged in improving the OS and providing a viable marketing platform to developers. Their are tons of applications available for Winmo, however until recently their did not exist a single unified place to browse, purchase, review and simply install them. As a result Winmo was and to a great degree still is seeing by some as a business OS, one that was driven by how well (or not) it integrated with MS Outlook / Exchange, included office etc. MS has always traded on this perception
As a result of the above, we saw the rise of blackberrys & iphones. Both companies focussed on a single soultion where hardware and software were manufactured as a single unit. Both also focussed on specific solution points, BB on easy, secure access to email / apps and Apple with their product packaging & appstore /itunes integration.
So I ask myself why did I not take the plunge and move to either of these 2 platforms. Simple:
I like the choice I have with Winmo. I can flash Roms, try different radios, install apps from all over, play with the registry etc etc etc.
The HD2 is the first Winmo phone I have had that I can live with as is for the next 2 years. yes it has some issues, however none of them are a real deal breaker.
Until then, I wait patiently for cmonex /olipro and the rest of the team to complete SSPL and for our talented chefs and developers to give us the tools to enjoy our devices that little bit more! So if I were you I would be patient, look beyond the niggles and STAY.
Until Winmo 7 is released and then the fun really begins.
Don't worry, NRGZ28 has no plans to retire yet (I hope ). This thread may get closed or may only get a few replies, but your feedback is appreciated if you would be kind enough to post a few words...
It's not one of the usual "which ROM should I choose threads". I'm experienced here enough not to annoy you all that much!
The problem is that since I flashed my first EnergyROM on my Diamond or TP (can't remember which), I can't divert from them. Great for NRGZ28...that's obviously the desired effect, but I see so many other ROM threads in these fora, and it's obvious so many people choose them over EnergyROMs for one reason or another. Basically, I like the fact that they look great and come "fully-loaded", and a big thing for me is that the latest WM build (currently 23563) is used to cook from. A "stock" or "lite" ROM isn't much good to me as I would just fill it with all the same stuff anyway, only not being cooked in it probably wouldn't all work together so well.
What I'm asking for is what others are using instead of EnergyROM and why.
What I'm most worried about is that I'm so stuck on EnergyROMs that I might be missing something else. I recognise completely that all of the ROM chefs are super talented in what they do and I wouldn't know where to begin in cooking myself. I mean I like to think that I'm pretty well techie-minded, but the thought of ROM cooking hurts my head! All those XIP and SYS and pagepools, lua script & manila files, all the ExtROM stuff that gets constantly updated that I wouldn't be able to get hold of, not being in the right circles. I just can't bring myself to try because I know it could always be better.
But also, I don't like to constantly flash all the time, once a week is enough I think and this is what keeps me from testing other ROMs.
Thanks for reading and I hope I didn't just waste 2 minutes of your life and a few kilobytes on the xda server! I'm sure there are more "EnergyROM addicts" out that are wondering if anything else compares.
Whatever ROM you choose you will be missing something. The right question is:
Can I live without that feature/application/tweak/theme/etc?
Choosing custom ROM over stock has its obvious advantages. Using stock has its advantages also: warranty is not violated, you have support from manufacturer etc.
Custom ROMs are different story. They are made by individuals according to their taste: from eye-candy (or lack of it) to choice of apps and tweaks.
EnergyROMs have nice eye-candy, they are nicely optimized with good app choices. There are ROMs that are faster. There are ROMs that are close to stock look, so you can modify it according to your own taste. There are ROMs with no additional apps so you can install exactly what you need. Some chiefs refresh their ROMs more frequently than NRGZ28, so you get new build faster.
Personally, I stick to the "good old" 21XXX builds and flash only when there is important update in newer build. Something like improvement in speed or some feature that is important to me (battery life, newer Office build, or fix for something that was not working as it should).
EnergyROMs are used by many so bugs and problems are found much faster and, consequently, fixed faster.
I have tried almost all other ROMs but for some reason, EnergyROM on HD2 presents for me, personally, perfect combination of looks, features, stability and battery life.
You make some very valid points...am I right in considering you an EnergyROM addict too?
In fact all of what you have said is completely my way of thinking. Although I use the 23XXX builds. For some reason I have some (un)healthy compulsion to have the latest of everything, which is one of the main reasons I use EnergyROM in the 1st place (and I also why I bought a HD2 when I had a perfectly good TP2, much to my wife's dismay!
)
I couldn't go back to having the "Start" and "X" buttons at the top. That's SO 4 months ago!
Anyone else wanna throw anything in?
Admire al chefs but..
Yes, I admit I have a NRG addiction as well.....
I do try other chef's cooking as well, especially because NRG takes the time to release new builds, and others come out with theirs earlier. I find myself time after time going back to his, either 'downgrading' or flash one of his as soon as they come out.
What other ROMs I try?
I would categorize them like this:
1. Eye candy - Some chefs here are extremely talented is combining their own looks, or co-operating with people with high skills of developing beautiful looking screens.
2. Performance - I always look for a ROM that will have no lag , be memory efficient (not that the HD2 lacks any) , and one without bloating.
I think the appeal NRG ROMS has on me (at least) is the combination of the Italian beauty (see the cars they make) and the German precision. On top NRG is here in the US, and it gives him another advantage for me. Not sure if he is on AT&T or not, but until now any recommendation he has (like going back to 2.07 radio) was a great advice.
I try from time to time Miri's , Tom Codon's , IT's (sorry, not on this forum any more, but still a great chef) and Dutty's, even some others. All are great piece of work, and I do want to take the opportunity and thank all of them, but as stated - NRG's are always the ones I finally keep on my phone, and dare travel with..
i think there are some fundamental differences in chefs way of thinking.
I for one (and i know a few others who have stated as much) are cooking primarily for ourselves. we just choose to share the work. I will listen to requests, and if it is valid that it gets taken care of. Of course bugs affect everyone, so they take a priority.
Many other Chefs seem to "cook for the masses" and therefore appeal to a wider audience.
I dont think it is any any way fair to consider one chef over another by something as simple as post count on their rom thread (not saying you do this its just an observation).
If you feel comfortable with a style of rom, there is nothing wrong with sticking to it. but as you say, it never hurts to look, and so you have.
Going back time and again to one chef is more a compliment to that person, and nothing to be concerned over.
matmaneyre said:
But also, I don't like to constantly flash all the time, once a week is enough I think and this is what keeps me from testing other ROMs.
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I flash every morning (atleast)...sometimes even before taking a crap
Anybody knows any bone diseases I may end up with, please warn me !
On the better side of the thread intention , I for one personally end up with a Clean rom with no extra apps so I can make it my 'own'.
Always two sides to a coin... or many sides to a paper note if you fold it
Hi all,
First of all, I wish to preface this by saying how appreciative I am of the assistance and wealth of knowledge I have found on this forum. Without it, I must say I would have been pretty disappointed with my HD2 n its purely stock form. Much like the appstore is the iPhone's primary selling point, I believe the customisable nature of WinMo devices is their main selling point and is the reason I chose to purchase an HD2 over an iPhone (other than the cost/Tech Specs) of course. This thread is in no way intended to take away from the amazing work our chefs do!
I would also appreciate if any "If you don't like customising, why are you here?" comments off this thread also as that is not in any way what this is about. god knows I have destroyed enough PC BIOSes and mobile phones trying to customise them or tweak them for the maximum achieveable performance before it all became so mainstream.
I know this kind of a question is going to get people into "attack the n00b" mode really quickly, but i feel it is a legitimate question which could spark some insightful and intelligent discussion.
I was just wondering what your honest opinions are regarding the use of cooked ROMs.
At present I am using an up to date stock ROM with many added tweaks including CHT1.7.1 and the tweaked graphics drivers and am more than happy with the way the phone looks and operates. there is no software that is missing from the stock ROM which I feel would benefit me in any way and the phone seems to operate quickly and seamlessly and so far I have not experienced any reliabillity issues.
With a long standing background in the electronics and software development field, I have always been quite a strong believer in the "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" principal, but as I consider you guys and girls to be an intelligent bunch with a wealth of cumilative knowledge, I am interested in your opinions on the cooked VS customised stock ROM debate.
From what I can gather the benefits of a well developed cooked ROM such as EnergyROM or CleanEX ROM are as follows:
Menus are neatly organised and catagorised.
Extra software which is considered to be useful is preloaded.
Interface is tweaked (albiet usually no moreso than it can be with a few mods loaded on to a stock ROM)
UI and animation speed improvements.
The arguements against are as follows:
Risk (however low it is) of bricking your device
Compatabillity with different devices
Warrenty is voided (even though this can in most cases be avoided by flashing bck to a stock SPL)
Reliance on one person, or just a few people for updates rather than a huge company.
Personally, I have never used a cooked ROM, but I have been considering installing the EnergyROM on to my HD2 s it is the most closely matched cooked ROM to the way I have customised my stock ROM, however as I am currently quite happy with the way I have my stock ROM set up, I am wondering if there are any extra benefits that I have missed. It would almost seem that in my case, I am better off just sticking with the tweaked stock ROM as it serves all my needs and scouring pretty much any thread relating to a cooked ROM, I seem to stumble upon a LOT of bugs (hich have usually been fixed in subsequent releases).
To me it would seem that a lot of the time, the appeal of cooked ROMs is the "Elite" and "Geeky coolness" factor rather than actual functionallity.
Discuss....
Excellent post mate and I hope it's taken in the spirit it's intended and you're spared all the usual nonsense when questions are asked.
I've been on here a few months, but rarely ventured into the ROM's section, fairly competent with everything in the "Themes + Apps" section and like you, have my phone looking and performing pretty much how I'd want it.
All I'd perhaps want, and the reason I dip in here every now and then for a look, is perhaps a ROM which removes some of the redundant (for me) applications, ie Twitter, Footprints, Stocks etc to perhaps speed things up a little as my RAM is constantly at 60% and I'm getting low on internal storage memory despite installing everything which can be to the SD card.
But again, I wonder if there is perhaps more to this ROM flashing and whether I'd notice any real advantages which I'd not considered?
One other question for anyone who feels like answering, and it will seem silly. Are the softkeys in 6.5xx all aligned with the right hand one set further in than the left (ie non-symetrical), may seem a minor thing, but it just doesn't look right to me and if I was going to flash to something newer, I'd like to know if it can be changed.
Probably complete "noob" type questions, and apologies for partial hijack of the OP's thread, but as someone else had dared to ask some points that I'd like answered, I thought I'd stick my oar in and we can both be flamed together then.
Thanks for the support
I am the admin on another forum so I am not afraid or unfamiliar with flameage!
I'm looking forward to seeing what discussions this sparks
i think a VOTE would be great for this page....
Hi I would think the best advice would be that if you are happy with your ROM and you are not having any issues with it. Stick to it, this way you will have the peace of mind that your warranty is still in tact and you will not have to revert to reflashing to original stock without any risks.
Flashing on the other hand is fun and I feel the ROM cooks do a fantastic job of tweaking them so they work most efficiently. The chefs also remove programs that are not used that often which gives us more memory to install programs that we will actually use and the chefs also update to the newest builds for software which is dorment in the stock roms e.g. google maps,opera etc. If you update these on stock roms, it takes away valuable space due to the programs installed twice (you cannot usually replace the stock ROM versions and overwrite them with newer builds).
Naturally you will get issues cropping up with things going wrong and this is mainly due to the fact that the chefs use the newest builds before they are released officially so you can have a feel of new things that are put into them. I personally like to stick to one or two chefs and follow their progress, this way you will generally be ok as you will be aware of any minor problems and their fixes. If you flash many different ROMs with different chefs, you may encounter different problems with each of their ROMs and feel that ROM flashing seems to cause more problems than solutions.
I hope this clarifies some of your queries.
chiraag said:
i think a VOTE would be great for this page....
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Click to collapse
I considered it, but I thought a vote makes it a little too black and white. I'd rather a more in depth discussion on the pros/cons
Adiction!!
There's nothing wrong with stock ROM's what a little tweaking can't solve.
and there wil always be problems and things that don't suite you in a cooked ROM.
Bud if you would try it once it wil become an adiction to find the newest and/or the fastest that suite your needs the best.
if you follow the guide's the change of bricking your phone are slim bud there is always the posebilety
I think it's one of the best things of my HTC and no risk no luck.
(bud don't listen to me because i'm an addict)
Well it took a while before I flashed a cooked rom into my phone. I use Artemis roms, and those are the only one I have tried yet - and I really do not think I will ever try another since most of them have silly and ugly mods baked in.... I like the newer 6.5.5 with bigger soft buttons and the "start" down on the left. But the most important thing is speed - with artemis, everything the phone can do, the phone does it faster running Artemis than Stock rom. Often _much_ faster. Starting Opera 10 for example takes roughly 2 secs with Artemis, 5-6secs with stock...
I started to flash custom ROMS because I got sick and tired waiting for HTC to solve my problem with data connection. I tried all sorts of official and unofficial tweaks and patches without success so I decided to take the risk with the flashing adventure.
After flashing a few ROMS from different chefs I eventually found THE ONE that solved my frustrating problem out of the box. Not only that but I was also very impressed by the performance and by the chef himself - always there, always wanting to improve, always fair and balanced. So I settled for it and it's the only ROM I flash to my phone.
I would also like to add that I prefer the close to stock philosopy because I want to do the customization myself. Even so, in my opinion custom ROMS have the following advantages compared to stock:
- you have many options to chose from
- they prove to be faster and more stable
- you have LIVE support from the chef and the other users
- you get updates much, much faster and more frequently (even if beta builds)
- you get all sorts of goodies cooked in the ROM (tweaks, apps, etc.)
- with the ROM I use you also get an app built by the chef himself to tweak the ROM to your likings
- it's rather fun to do it
just my 2 cents
I'm the same as the above poster. I got sick of waiting for my mobile operator to update the ROM (O2). I had SMS problems, data connection problems, freezong problems, the list goes on.
Then i turned into a frantic flasher..up to 5 times a day, looking for the latest and greatest. I was forever setting my phone up and it was taking over my life! I even tried cooking my own with pretty decent success.
I'm now more settled and gone for a ROM thats closer to stock with a few tweaks. It does what i want and pretty quickly too. Its a million miles away from the original phone i got back in early December, but that a good thing.
on a functional level much of the surface features that cooked roms offer could in theory be done with cabs and tweaks, but some things can only be cooked in.
also, cooking in a fix or tweak means it is there from the start, so when you hard reset it the system isn't needing to be patched, so the fix is more stable.(generaly)
on another level many of the chefs really do know a thing or two about building roms and can make them smaller faster and more stable than the stock releases.
I personally never flashed a device...I have to admit that with CHT1.7.1 things been running smoothy and perfectly. The idea of removing some applications on standard ROM sounds really great like footprint,shares,music sense...which i dont use.
As Sentinel196 says, "If it ain't broke, don't fix it" , i guess i come from the same school in that sense.
by the way with all the cutomization available for CHT i find it really hard if people do not like their htc hd2
I do believe the HD2 is a very good compromise between 'works out of the box' and 'can tweak 'til the cows come home'. It's a modders dream but at the same time probably the only WinMobile device that I thought to myself "I might actually stick with a stock rom, it works"
Curiousity got the better of me... WITHIN HOURS... of getting the device. First off I noticed I was locked to Vodafone's stock rom (it was obviously a Vodafone customer selling on a new handset), I couldn't get the latest rom from HTC so HSPL'd it and flashed to stock 1.66. Good stuff, it was working fine for me.
Then I got curious again some days later and tried 6.5.5. I definitely prefered 6.5 to 6.5.5 and believe it feels much more 'balanced' on a device of this nature (giant screen, few hardware buttons) so decided I wanted to go back to 6.5 after some days of use. I remembered the stock rom did have a lot of 'junk' attached to it, despite operating blazing fast. I found CleanEX on here and from the description it sounded like a good compromise - the stock rom but with junk removed, more 'under the hood' tweaks added and all underlying software updated. Fantastic. I've been flashing to it 'til now and can't see me going anywhere else for the time being.
So yeah, the HD2 out of the box (for the most part, I realise some people have experienced bugs) is a decent device. However, coming here turns it into an AMAZING device capable of just about anything. Having the choice is fantastic. When people ask me about me about my HD2 Vs. the iPhone I can't help but be honest and state 'the iPhone just works', if you want the HD2 to fulfill its full potential you'll need to 'dedicate time to it and be one with your inner geek.'
For people stuck with locked down operator roms, the rom section on XDA is invaluable as it would seem o2 UK (my operator) have ONLY JUST upgraded their rom from the version people were using in Nov '09. Sorry, but that is ridiculous and no customer should have to wait that long for a device like this to have its bugs ironed out when people 'breaking the rules' can have it right off the bat with a bit of a learning curve. Just another reason why operator branded bull**** is a waste of everyone's time -- like movies being released in the US months/years before the UK in the 90s & til mid '00, it took file-sharing to fix that!
I also strongly believe if people are willing to come here and read the 'basic' threads & take a little time out, support here is absolutely second to none. Better than an RMA to HTC, better than your operators forums, just fantastic. This does however support the idea that the HD2 is somewhat another device kept alive by XDA-developers... which I'm sure will become more apparent in the future after WinPhone7 is released.
tl;dr - The HD2 is a HTC phone which, once again, benefits more than anything from the development, tweaks, mods, hacks, customizations and support given here.
Some excellent posts so far. Thanks everyone!! Looking forward to some more insight.
I'm certainly becoming more and more tempted to HSPL and flash a cooked ROM just to satisfy my inner nerd and curiosity!
Until a few weeks ago I was a stock ROM user. To be honest the stock rom was ok but just didnt seem very stable to me with resets a normal part of life. Having looked through the various ROM threads I decided to stick with a fairly stock cooked rom and chose Artemis.
After the first few days it was very apparent that this was the way forward. Artemis transformed my HD2 into what I believe the device should have been, stable and a joy to use.
I think before you can decide on a cooked ROM you need to decide on what you want a cooked ROM for. Is it for stability (in my case) or for added features such as extra tabs, preinstalled cabs etc.
I cant fault Artemis v11, is as stock as you can get with a cooked ROM and is fast, stable and very user friendly but I expect that others will have critism over this ROM against another, like I say there are many great chefs out there and its down to personal choice which is the best.
I love cooked ROMs. This is my first Win Mo device and I have to say when I first got it I was pretty disappointed(December last year). Was pretty damn buggy and slow! O2 UK didn't seem in any hurry to release any of the improved ROMs(not sure if they have even released an update now). I did the various tweaks that people have listed to improve the phone and was pretty pleased with the result. When HSPL came out I figured I would give a cooked ROM ago as if me a n00b doing a few tweaks could make my phone better imagine what pros could do! Flashed Duttys HG series and was blown away! Have been flashing them ever since (tried a few others but always come back to Duttys). It feels nice to have all the latest software bundled up and tweaked for me! Just about to flash from HG v2.5 (COM5) to HG v2.6 (COM5). Will be maybe the 20th time I have flashed my phone Gets better each time
Always cooked. Stock roms are always lacking something... cooked, especially with kitchens allow you to play around and have fun.
Now, regarding the future of cooked roms? that much is very very doubtful. I doubt we'll see many WinMo cooked roms after 2010.
I first had the default ROM 1.43 and everything was allmost OK with little glitches here and there (first of all the battery didn't last long) then I had the official 1.48 update wich I promptly applied and everything worked the same with little things improved (still terrible battery life) then after a couple of months of constants soft resets or taking out the battery for a reset I decided to try Miri's ROMS wich are great (I always prefered the close to stock) but still with battery problems until I learned I can upgrade the radio only without damaging the ROM wich I did and somewhat improved, but just a little, then I tried Dutty's wich are great roms (still close to stock and more stable at least the COM2 version) finally I decided a couple of days ago to give a try to EnergyROM which have additional software and I whent the GTX route, and I really love it, speccially since the battery is lasting me longer with the same radio update as my previous rom and with the lovelly GTX theme but some things like CHT seems to work better cooked in that installed separatedly, in my opinion I think you will have a lot of benefits using a custom ROM, but first use the original rom a couple of months to evaluate if your unit is functional (try everything: FM radio, GPS, light sensor, etc.) and then when you get to know your device try the custom rom of your choice and prepare to be amazed, once you go custom....
Good luck!
Maybe i am talking about the wrong thing here but i will say it. In the HD2 there is very little (if not nothing at all) noticeable difference between stock and custom Rom (except some registry modifications that you can do them with the stock rom as well). It is mainly in the addiction that cooking provides that you can see a difference. In the HTC Touch HD although the difference between stock and custom rom (mainly the Custom Roms that come from the HD2) is VERY VERY BIG. The last stock rom that HTC provide is 1 year old (7/4/2009) with 6.1 Windows, Black and White slider icons, Manila 1.XX etc. So in some cases i thing Custom Rom is more needed that the Stock Rom. But in the case of the ultra-fast HD2 i believe that the difference is much much smaller.
Wow - a front pager!
Sentinel196 said:
I would also appreciate if any "If you don't like customising, why are you here?"
[...]
I know this kind of a question is going to get people into "attack the n00b" mode really quickly, but i feel it is a legitimate question which could spark some insightful and intelligent discussion.
Click to expand...
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Sentinel196 said:
I am the admin on another forum so I am not afraid or unfamiliar with flameage!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just thought I'd share in case you hadn't noticed; despite your concerns, you managed to make the 'front cover' of XDA-Devs!
http://www.xda-developers.com/
Next - Time Magazine?!
Good post, well deserved. Enjoying the conversation and Mass-Debating(!).
Hirshy
Hello HD2 forum
I am planning on purchasing a HD2 second hand, to ultimately dual boot windows phone 7 and ICS.
I am buying it from a local trade in store for good prices and warranty, ideally i would like to power it on in store before the purchase to check its clean and ready for me to follow the tutorials available.
Other than identifying that the phone is still running windows mobile, is there any other way for me to check that the phone has not previously been messed with? Something in the settings? Maybe i should check for a secondary mode with certain key combination on boot?
Thanks a lot!
You kinda need to define what you mean by "clean"...I assume you mean stock (and never been modded, but these are 2 different things totally unrelated to each other, more to that in a minute).
IMO the best thing you could do would be to read up on the flashing process. This will tell you what to look for, if you're looking for a stock never-been-modded phone.
But back to your question...the first major sign I'd look for would be HSPL. I'm not going to go into detail about how to find out if it's installed. You'll have to do your own homework. Read every 'how to' and 'newb' (or noob) guide on xda. XDA is an awesome site and the dev's here write awesome documentation. Do them the favor of reading it. I mean, I don't know what you're an expert on but it might get on your nerves if I ask you simple questions about that topic cause I'm too lazy to do the research myself. The research is easy, the reference material is all contained here in various forums, depending on what you want to do. I show my appreciation for that by taking advantage of it, and don't forget to thank the dev's if something is especially helpful...they like that.
As far as checking to ensure that it's still running WinMo...that's gonna be about as effective and informative (about the phone being virgin-stock) as whether or not it's raining that day or not. What's that got to do with anything? Exactly. Nothing. My HD2 is running (at the moment) a WinMo 6.5 build. But it's been flashed more than a hundred times. My daily software is an SD Android build. Before I flashed my HD2 for the first time, I probably spent about 30 hours just reading about the process and trying to understand the process of what I was going to be doing (while reading, I usually had video tutorials playing on my 2nd monitor...I'd give up the reading when it got interesting). So that's it, really...read read read. It's not fail safe. I can't tell you how many times I waited on pins and needles to find out if I had ****-canned my new €400 phone. If you have a heart condition, you just shouldn't ride this ride. ;-)
I just got a SGS2, cause I prefer Android to WinMo. WinMo's a full time job, as is flashing. Something was always not performing the way I wanted it to (efficiency or performance etc), which was why I started flashing, but it gets to be like a drug. Nothing's ever good enough, cause you wind up wanting the best. I'd flash a ROM and install all my **** (manually, one cad file at a time) and then flash a different one and have to reinstall everything again. It was even worse if I had set up my homescreens, and folders the way I wanted them...to that end, I'd highly recommend that you also research mass-installer programs. I can't think of the name of it right now, but you pack all of your cad's in one folder and this program installs all of them (which means like 65% typically, cause invariably about 1/3 will fail for one reason or another).
Even still, looking for HSPL (which is required to flash anything on the HD2) is not very indicative as to whether or not it's been previously modded. When I got my phone it was virgin/stock, of that I'm sure. I bought it from a person, and the person was not capable of performing such tasks (he wasn't so technically inclined). But in your case, you're going to have no idea. It is not only possible but also very easy to return the phone to stock by removing HSPL leaving virtually no trace of it having ever been modded (I say virtually, cause I don't THINK that it can be traced when HSPL has been removed, but I'm not a dev and not a guru). So even the absence of HSPL doesn't even really tell you that it's never been modded, it only says that if it was- then the modder was smart enough to cover his tracks.
Basically, I don't think there's an answer to your question. There are clues that say YES THIS PHONE HAS BEEN MODDED. But there's no definitive sign to look for that say THIS PHONE HAS NEVER BEEN MODDED, and you dunno if someone's gonna lie to you. But I am inviting you to prove me wrong, read the documentation and get back to me.
Good luck flashing, don't **** it up though. You'll be pissed if you brick your ****, which is easy to do. Hell, it's probably a thousand times safer to buy a phone with HSPL installed, then you can flash all you want with no risk. The main risk, is ****ing something up in the HSPL installation process, but there are ways to minimize the risk...which all amount to: read, read, read.
And if you decide you'd be interested in previously modded HD2 (with HSPL already installed), let me know, make me an offer. Mine's just a wifi media device at the moment and I'll probably be marketing it in the near future regardless. It currently has HSPL, and I haven't decided to remove it before sale or not. I saw one on Amazon last week that was at a premium price, cause the seller had Android running on it. It's a great phone if you like WinMo, but I find Android to be much less 'high maintenance' and I used to be a huge WinMo fan (I'm a 10 year WinMo user, if you can believe that!).
Regardless, this is getting long. Those are my 2pence. Be easy.
[EDIT] Hell, if you were closer I'd let you borrow mine for a few weeks to see if you like the phone. I'm a nice guy like that.
There is no way of knowning to be honest, unless you go into bootloader and you see the firmare on it has been tinkered, ( i.e. Hspl, radio, rom ) and depending if it is a eu or tmous version. good luck tho!