Since the new official WM6.5 is using a lot of RAM, does this affect the speed of the device?
Or does it merely mean that there can't be as many apps open until it reaches critical level?
Not directly, it should not. Only if it reaches a certain level, as you said.
It's likely however that WM6.5 uses more processing power than 6.1, but I can't say for sure.
It should not affect the performance, I have been up to 80% or more and never experienced any lag issues.
Cool thanks for the replies
One of the biggest misconceptions about RAM on Windows Mobile or indeed most operating systems, is that it's a good thing to have lots of free ram available. It's not. It's a complete waste of resources. The most efficient use of RAM would be bouncing off 100% used as much as possible.
It's good to have free RAM up until you have nothing more to execute. Having more RAM ensures you never reach this limit and start swapping.
I may not use all 4GB on my PC at once, but when the next version of XXXXX game comes out, I may end up using more than I do now. The overhead ensures I don't have to go out and buy more memory to ensure reliable performance.
A little off topic, but seems like a good place to ask: Opera (using 6.1, original or TESS) often struggles rendering complex (and sometimes even simple) pages. When you scroll to a new part of the page there are delays while it redraws the new bits. When you scroll back, it has to redraw the original bits. There are annoying delays and large ugly grey areas while it does this. I often have 3-4 tabs open BTW.
The question is, can Opera be allocated more memory (since I have plenty, especially since TESS) or is it completely automatic under WM? I've poked around in the registry and there are a couple of keys for "memory allocation" and "heap allocation", or some such, under the Opera section, but they're just numbers, they don't look like Mbytes, if you see what I mean.
The slow redrawing thing feels like a memory problem, as though it's redrawing from storage cache rather than quicker RAM cache, that's why I ask.
ArtieQ said:
It should not affect the performance, I have been up to 80% or more and never experienced any lag issues.
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I fully agree with you.
The only problem is that programs that use lots of memory will not start. In fact I can play with Xtrakt only if I disable manila, otherwise the system not have enough memory to start it.
Sorry for the bad English
im sorry but if your PC or phone whatever you like is using alot of RAM, say %90, then this is going to cause the device to slow down.
once you reach a certain limit of RAM left, it has to start using disk space as temporary RAM and as such everything becomes slower.
RAM makes it quicker ONLY when the program you want is loaded into the RAM. So in windows if you have alot of programs running in the task area, then yes these programs will run up very quickly. But try then to open up another program when your memory is briming and you will find that it will slow it up.
To have memory running at a high percentage used is bad practise. In theory its good because it means things are loaded, but its only the things that are loaded that notice the speed benifits. There needs to be a cut off point.
adamrob69 said:
im sorry but if your PC or phone whatever you like is using alot of RAM, say %90, then this is going to cause the device to slow down.
once you reach a certain limit of RAM left, it has to start using disk space as temporary RAM and as such everything becomes slower.
RAM makes it quicker ONLY when the program you want is loaded into the RAM. So in windows if you have alot of programs running in the task area, then yes these programs will run up very quickly. But try then to open up another program when your memory is briming and you will find that it will slow it up.
To have memory running at a high percentage used is bad practise. In theory its good because it means things are loaded, but its only the things that are loaded that notice the speed benifits. There needs to be a cut off point.
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Your understanding of the OS and therefore your conclusions are wrong. Desktop Windows is a different beast to Windows Mobile. When physical RAM gets low in Windows, it swaps data out to the disk. In WM it doesn't, it asks programs to close down (then forces them if none of them do), on a least recently used basis. For this reason, in WM, you might as well have applications using free RAM since they're effectively 'cached' and ready to be called up quickly. Should you start another process that requires that RAM, then the old processes will be closed very quickly. In WM, free RAM is wasted RAM.
Hi
For this reason, in WM, you might as well have applications using free RAM since they're effectively 'cached' and ready to be called up quickly. Should you start another process that requires that RAM, then the old processes will be closed very quickly. In WM, free RAM is wasted RAM.
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Exactly Which is why having the HTC task bar shut down applications on clicking the cross is a complete waste of time. Windows Mobile is designed to leave applications loaded even when you close them, that way they are ready immediately when you want them again. This saves times and also power.
As already stated Windows Mobile will close applications automatically if required to free up some space.
Empty RAM is a complete waste, and is an argument against increasing RAM in Windows Mobile devices to silly headline amounts as even in standby that RAM has to be kept powered even if not being used.
Regards
Phil
Related
I think all of you have seen this.. Free program stats from around 25 Mb and keeps on going down even if you completely kill the processes. is there a tool which actually kills the resident dlls and other crap in memory.. Please advice.. i want to get out this habbit of soft reset after couple of days just to bring my memory back up where it belongs ;-)
Cheers
Zobie
Yeah, leaking memory is also one of the very few things I hate on my Wizard
I also would like to know if there is a Memory Cleaner that works like it should and not only kills open programs.
Had problem also. But the Internet Exploder was to blame. I had the history settings to 30 days. Which is the default. Back to 0 days and everything was hunkydory again.
I had problems with memory too. I had less than 1MB of storage memory left. So I went from a custom 2.17 ROM to Mr. Clean AKU 2.3 and changed the Registry setting for IE as follows:
; IE Cache to storage card
[HKEY_CURRENT_USER\Software\Microsoft\Windows\CurrentVersion\Explorer\Shell Folders]
"Cache"="\\Storage Card\\Temporary Internet Files"
I've used this ROM for a week now with lots of programs. I have an average of 25 MB of storage free and the system is fast.
I have experienced no problems whatsoever.
If i don't even open the IE will it still be a memory hog?? i don't understand that.. I can understand that if i use IE all the time it will cause problems but if i don't even use it why woud my memory drop with time. Cans omeone please explain. I am not trying to offend neone here but just wante dto know. I can definitely try the reg settings. Please let me know.
Thanks
Zobie
Don't confuse ROM with RAM and storage with program mem. I think the topic starter referred to his RAM mem becoming less every day, resulting in low program mem and slow operations, needing a reset to clear the RAM and speed up the device.
The IE cache is stored in ROM and will only fill your storage but not slow down your device.
memory leaks are unfortunately a standard issue with PPC devices, I have always suffered from them on both WM 2003 SE and Wm5 devices. For me a soft reset now and then clears it up, but I find it an annoying "feature" as well.
I think like Windows its the In Memory DLLs which are the culprit. I wonder if there can be tools for detailed view of memory for Xp why not WM5.
BUMP !!!
zobie said:
I think like Windows its the In Memory DLLs which are the culprit. I wonder if there can be tools for detailed view of memory for Xp why not WM5.
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What are the "In Memory DLL's"? Never heard of such a thing.
The memory that slows your device is the addressable application memory, which is a total of 32 MB. You cannot change that or add to it.
Think of it as the same as the Virtual Memory (VM) in Windows XP on your desktop. Every application you open reserves a bit of this virtual memory. Some apps willingly give it up when they close - some that are not as well written do not. A soft reset when you see the device slowing is about all you can do.
My only other advice is that skinned applications - particularly Today screen plugins - use up this addressable memory very quickly. This includes Wisbar Advance2, PocketBreeze and iLauncher, and any weather program. If you are running these, you will always have similar issues. Find an acceptable mix of skinned apps that you must have, and try doing without the rest just to see how it treats your device's memory.
And if you want to see what processes are running, and how much memory they are using, try MemMaid by Dinarsoft or SK-Tools. Great programs.
Amen. I wonder how much is held in reserve by the system in case you start the app again? Real Windows has been doing that for a long time, I wouldn't be surprised if micro Windows did it as well. Kind of reminds me of years ago when NT would report how it actually used memory and the end result was there was almost zero bytes "free" because all memory was always used for something, it didn't let anything sit around doing nothing. But since users didn't get it, MS wrote the taskman and so on to report something as "free memory" even though it wasn't really free. Finally, a lot of apps were designed to hide, not close, when you select the "X". If one of those task manager apps just blows the app away, does it bother cleaning up after the app which wasn't given the chance to clean up after itself by closing correctly?
markgamber said:
Amen. I wonder how much is held in reserve by the system in case you start the app again? Real Windows has been doing that for a long time, I wouldn't be surprised if micro Windows did it as well. Kind of reminds me of years ago when NT would report how it actually used memory and the end result was there was almost zero bytes "free" because all memory was always used for something, it didn't let anything sit around doing nothing. But since users didn't get it, MS wrote the taskman and so on to report something as "free memory" even though it wasn't really free.
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Take a look here to learn about what you really see in task manager regarding memory/cpu usage.
http://tinyurl.com/l57w8
Finally, a lot of apps were designed to hide, not close, when you select the "X". If one of those task manager apps just blows the app away, does it bother cleaning up after the app which wasn't given the chance to clean up after itself by closing correctly?
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Depends on which task mamger you are using; some use the WMClose command instead of the Kill command. Big difference!
Tools Like Memmaid SK-Tools don't allow you to identify rouge elements in memory which nolonger have a parent process running. It is those elemts which eat up the memory. I have SPB tools to actually close the application but even then the memory keeps on falling. I guess there is no tool as of today like Taskmanager or even RAM Optimizer for PPC. A Tool like RAM Optimizer would check for the elements which are residing in RAM and are no longer being used. XDA developers can surely write something using the .NE Framework.
J-Mac said:
Depends on which task mamger you are using; some use the WMClose command instead of the Kill command. Big difference!
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Do you happen to know of a couple that use the WMClose command? I've used HandySwitcher most recently and MagicButton in the past, but have no idea which method(s) they use.
Thank you.
Geoffrey
There must 40 threads on this topics by now. I concur with J-Mac that today plugins are mostly to blame. I use Journal Bar and perform a soft reset roughly every other day. To help the situation I also use 2 programs which I find invaluable - The first is Smartskey which allows you close a program rather than minimise it (its a free download on this forum). The second is SK Tools Free up RAM application which works reasonably well but only delays the enevitable soft reset. It's effectiveness decreases the longer the device remains active.
Recently I found something interesting and would like to share here see any Hi-Tech people can make a software to fix the memory leaking in WM OS.
When I first start my machine, my Ram is about 25.5mb and then will drop down to around 24 something mb. I used different software to try to recover as much as RAM including Oxios and eLiAs AutoHibernate.
Recently I start to use Vito GoodWin I found that every time when I use the dialer pad no matter I make or not make a phone call, my Ram will drop down a bit. When I open the GoodWin, I can see the "Phone" is still running. After I close the "Phone" in GoodWin and close GoodWin and back to Today destop. I found that my Ram will go up to 26.6mb. How come? Is it any chance to find out why and may someone can make a software Like Oxios but can take more Ram back.
Hope someone can do it for US. Cheers
memory leakage
hey dude this is not memory leakage actually whenever u run anything on the pocketpc or a cell phone or a computer it uses the resources of the device that is it uses the RAM memory(memory used for running the programs on a computer,pocketpc).
And as it is all the programs,codes,scripts are actually lines and machine codes which get compiled and executed and hence they use the memory of the device to run and hence the RAM memory is used.
For example if u run multiple programs at a time then it drains your RAM memory and hence the result is slow processing of your device hence there is no such way that you can avoid the RAM usage so even when u start your dialer it consumes the RAM do not worry about the RAM usage its normal.
And about the programs you mentioned they are just to shift the memory usage and yet when you start your dialer the specified and required amount of RAM will be used.
To make it more clear for u just go to the task manager of your computer (by pressing alt+ctrl+del all together) and then click on the performance tab
now minimize the task manager and just open a folder or any program and check your task manager the RAM usage might have definitely increased..
Its the same funda with your pocketpc and mobile phones..
its called...ram...basic computing...just like any computer..its shortterm memory used to run programs...the more u open the less u have...maybe u should search up basic computing terms like ram for a further explanation
Memory leaking is real and especially noticeable on windows mobile.
What happens is that memory is allocated for use by programs but then not released when the application is finished doing its job. A combination of complexity and lazy programming is often the cause.
The end result is a gradual drop in available memory, regardless of whether you have any applications still open. The only way to make that memory available is a soft-reset.
Suggest you look carefully at which applications leak the most and avoid them. It can be one or two culprits that you can live without.
My phone (Verizon SMT5800, running Windows Mobile 6 Standard) is bad about memory leaks. I have to reboot it at least once a day to recover memory, sometimes several times in one day. On one occasion, it got down to about 2 MB free and wouldn't even run the reset command. I had to reset it by taking the battery out.
See here and tweak if necessary !! http://msdn.microsoft.com/en-us/library/ms911907.aspx
"soft reset a day keeps the memory hog away"
ayyu3m said:
"soft reset a day keeps the memory hog away"
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^ Thats the only thing that works for me
autohibernate works really well
SKTools FreeUP RAM
SKTools FreeUP Ram works well. Use it a couple times a day. Eventually have to soft reset though, maybe every couple of days. Have to buy it of course, not free. But it prolongs the duration between soft resets.
The newest SKTools has an additional service for automatic FreeUP Ram, after every app-closing. Just try it
Is there a way to find out which application is causing the memory leak?
I don't think, that there is a real memory leak.
For example Windows Mobile has a file cache which is not filled yet after a fresh softreset. While you use your device this gets filled until the required amount of memory is being used for it.
If more and more memory is consumed each time the dialpad is used, as described, then there is a memory leak. Nothing else can explain that. You should check with your rom chief.
Thanks, works great!
LordDeath said:
The newest SKTools has an additional service for automatic FreeUP Ram, after every app-closing. Just try it
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I just upgraded my version of SKTools to get the latest FreeUP RAM Service feature. Very nice. Automatically frees unused RAM.
Thanks for the hint.
chigz said:
hey dude this is not memory leakage actually whenever u run anything on the pocketpc or a cell phone or a computer it uses the resources of the device that is it uses the RAM memory(memory used for running the programs on a computer,pocketpc).
And as it is all the programs,codes,scripts are actually lines and machine codes which get compiled and executed and hence they use the memory of the device to run and hence the RAM memory is used.
For example if u run multiple programs at a time then it drains your RAM memory and hence the result is slow processing of your device hence there is no such way that you can avoid the RAM usage so even when u start your dialer it consumes the RAM do not worry about the RAM usage its normal.
And about the programs you mentioned they are just to shift the memory usage and yet when you start your dialer the specified and required amount of RAM will be used.
To make it more clear for u just go to the task manager of your computer (by pressing alt+ctrl+del all together) and then click on the performance tab
now minimize the task manager and just open a folder or any program and check your task manager the RAM usage might have definitely increased..
Its the same funda with your pocketpc and mobile phones..
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Click to collapse
Thanks for the detail reply. Actually what I want to say is after I turn the phone on the ram is start dropping. I just take a sample like after you use the phone the ram would drop about a mb. Of course we know that it is not leaking. My point is after I closed the software and use some software to recover the RAM like Oxios. You can get some RAM back, but my case is when I after make a phone call and turn the dialer pad off. I wouldn't see any software running at task manager also if I use Oxios I just claim about half to one MB RAM back. When I turn GoodWin on in this point I can see the "Phone" still running at GoodWin. I stop the "Phone" at GoodWin and than turn GoodWin off, I found that I could recover 2 - 3mb RAM. That's mean for me is when GoodWin turn this software "Phone" off and could claim more RAM back than Oxios. So could we use the way GoodWin do to make a software claim more RAM back? If you don't get what I say, just try to download GoodWin from the net and try to play around than you can see what happen. Sometime it even make me have more RAM than just after softreset.
ayyu3m said:
"soft reset a day keeps the memory hog away"
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Are you in NZ? Me too, which city you are? I am in Christchurch.
Hi all,
i have read all i can find on the forum on this topic and i wanted to ask is a specific procedure existed for determining a memory leak (if i have one!) i find the gwes.exe file starts at 12mb at boot and generally increases untill a soft reset. it can reach 18mb. whilst i am not sure if this effects performance it causes my memory usage to rise constantly for no reason i can determine!
my setup - rom miri wm6.5 v26.3 - premium WITHOUT manilla
interface - spb mobile shell
dialer - phone ex
not much else
any ideas hints kindly recieved!
regards
Mat
lemat1 said:
i have read all i can find on the forum on this topic and i wanted to ask is a specific procedure existed for determining a memory leak (if i have one!) i find the gwes.exe file starts at 12mb at boot and generally increases untill a soft reset. it can reach 18mb. whilst i am not sure if this effects performance it causes my memory usage to rise constantly for no reason i can determine!
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Click to collapse
GWES memory consumption growth is as natural as gravity and it happens to improve performance. This happens because it is smart enough to keep resources in fast RAM so that next time they will not be loaded from (comparatively slow) flash memory. Basically this is the point in having RAM and the reason why you paid for it - it has to be loaded with stuff to make things faster. This sport of freeing RAM is just ridiculous in most cases (although not always, of course). You pay for it and then don't use.
Secondly, what you describe is not a memory leak. A memory leak is a situation of uncontrolled memory usage growth (if your GWES gradually ate all available memory to a point where device would crash that would be a memory leak). In general, there's nothing wrong with applications consuming more and more RAM as they work as long as they can free this RAM on demand. See for yourself: on your PC, load a memory-hungry application such as a web browser, note how much RAM it uses initially. Then use it for a while, RAM consumption will grow. Then minimize it and see how RAM usage drops dramatically. Even if an application uses half of all RAM it doesn't mean that this RAM isn't available for other programs when needed. When it's not needed, why not use it?
Good day!
I've tried a few different apps now, Memory Usage, Advanced Task Killer, and I seem to hover between 110m to 25m. I kill some apps and it jumps back up to 110 and then slowly works its way back down to the mid 20's. Is this normal?
Tips? What is your available memory like?
To sum it up: Free memory is useless memory. You should have as little memory free as possible.
Explanation. Android handles memory management really well. When an app is opened and needs more memory it will shut down unused processes and free up memory on an as needed basis. For apps this can be everything from pausing individual functions all the way to saving an apps state to disk and restoring it the next time it's opened.
Task killers are mostly solutions looking for a problem, I've been running without one for months and my amount of free memory fluctuates as expected when surfing the web and things like that but so far there haven't been any times where I've had to free up memory. So don't stare yourself blind on memory meters and try freeing up memory. Android handles that well enough on its own.
+1..
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That's good info! I kinda knew I was making something out of nothing with the numbers. The phone has been fine in terms of performance.
my 2 cents....i typically have between 30-60mb free. phone does not lag or anything. i used task-killer for a few days when i got phone, then actually thought about what it was doing and the way the system (linux based) is designed. i ditched it and have not looked back!
ps. my phone is rooted R2BA024 firmware, fwiw.
I usually have like 80 mb free ram just for the case and i use task manager to kill apps that are using data connection when i dont need them
I got totally obsessed with task killing but having read a lot of the lads reports on here I am on my third day of not touching it and I have to say my phone is doing fine all by itself!
goth50 said:
I usually have like 80 mb free ram just for the case and i use task manager to kill apps that are using data connection when i dont need them
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I think you'd be better off setting up data synchronisation properly. I'm assuming you're talking about background syncing of course. So that you don't accidentally kill an app in the middle of a sync which might cause corruptions. I've had that happen when synching my gmail to a linux machine and the network went down, the cleanup required was insane and I lost a whole months worth of mails from the google servers.
ddewbofh said:
To sum it up: Free memory is useless memory. You should have as little memory free as possible.
Explanation. Android handles memory management really well. When an app is opened and needs more memory it will shut down unused processes and free up memory on an as needed basis. For apps this can be everything from pausing individual functions all the way to saving an apps state to disk and restoring it the next time it's opened.
Task killers are mostly solutions looking for a problem, I've been running without one for months and my amount of free memory fluctuates as expected when surfing the web and things like that but so far there haven't been any times where I've had to free up memory. So don't stare yourself blind on memory meters and try freeing up memory. Android handles that well enough on its own.
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Heh...handles memory very well, but how about the battery life!? The more apps you have- the less power you've left.
mymagicmyhero said:
Heh...handles memory very well, but how about the battery life!? The more apps you have- the less power you've left.
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That's debatable, most background apps drain miniscule amounts of power. The exception naturally being things that makes use of the hardware while backgrounded by playing music, syncing, calculating pi or things like that. Most apps though, just hang out in memory not really doing anything. A lot of the time, if not most, it's more efficient staying there as opposed to shutting it down and starting it up again later.
+1 yes, just hanging out idle in memory wont cost you any battery, the memory will be on an base current either way, what does cost you battery is the read and write actions to memory so if you frantically clean out that memory your phone will have to write alot more to it working with your different apps resulting in a slower (less prepared) device sucking more battery then neccessary. Leave the memory handling to your device ;-)
Sent from my X10i using XDA App
Sorry if these are DUH questions, but while I've been working with computers since the mid 80's, I'm fairly new to the smart phone game and unfamiliar with the way they work internally.
Is the RAM on these phones a physical chip (like a PC) or is it a software defined allocation (virtual)?
Also, and more importantly, if it is software defined, is it possible to allocate more of the phones internal storage memory to RAM?
I've noticed that while I'm only using about 7% of the internal storage, RAM is typically running at about 80% used.
The device is rooted, running 2.3.2 and currently running the stock VZW rom.
Any insight on this would be appreciated.
Thanks!
I imagine android uses virtual addressing instead of physical addressing but I'm not sure.
I CAN tell you, though, that android (specifcally the dalvik vm) is designed to keep things in memory instead of freeing it to reduce load times, etc. If it starts to run out of memory it unloads things, probably on a LRU basis.
I see. So then the amount of available RAM really doesn't matter as it works more like cache?
It's not really much different in windows... if your usage is under certain limits, very little will be paged out. 99% mem in use is fine in windows. 101% is not.
I guess the main difference is that closing an app is not as integral to android as it is to windows, so those of us who are accustomed to closing apps to save memory feel a bit odd.
Sent from my DROID2 using XDA App
True, but a windows system with twice the memory of another, will usually run better. Which is what prompted me to ask this question to begin with. I figured if there was a way to re-appropriate some of the unused portion of the storage area to the frequently used area of RAM, it would make the system run faster and smoother. I just don't know if it's possible or if it even makes a difference with the Android/Linux OS.