Database Users

Touch HD vs. Xperia - A non-professional view

The way i see it... it totally depends on what attracts you more - a no-keyboard slim black iPhone like mobile or a professional looking and metallic keyboard bearing mobile. That alone should determine your choice... but considering you want to go into depth:
1. Xperia has more RAM. Infact almost 100 MB more. Which is simply awesome, especially if you are looking to port heavy games onto the mobile or run tons of software. How much RAM will panels take up is a big question, but keep in mind that if needed you could release the RAM taken up by Panels by disabling them or setting them however you want. (Loading 9 heavy panels will probably take more RAM than keeping 9 basic or default panels)
2. When it comes to Screen, though both have the same resolution, Touch HD gives you a bigger display with its 3.8 inch screen over the 3 inch Xperia screen.
3. In regard to camera, the Touch HD is again ahead of Xperia with a 5 MP camera over the 3.2 MP camera in Xperia. However, if one thing Sony Ericsson knows best, it is its Camera... so i can pretty much say that Xperia's 3.2 MP camera would be enough to take on the Touch HD 5 MP camera. Video recording is in both, and most likely Touch HD will match the recording capabilties in terms of resolution with Xperia - but again Camera quality of Sony is expected to be better. Both devices have Touch Focus as well... but one other thing to note is that Touch HD has no camera flash!
4. Main interface - Touch Flo 3d is superb looking. But Xperia Panels are not behind. Though Touch Flo 3D is shiny and extremely attractive, it lacks big time in customization. With Panels, customization is the key... and with time as developers start releasing new panels, we will probably see some really awesome stuff in terms of functionaity as well looks. Not to mention, the way you switch panel mode (fan, side-by-side, etc.) is nothing short. So if you are one who loves to have the possibility of as much customization as possible, like me, then Xperia wins here. And in my opinion, in terms of functionality and extendibility Xperia again wins here.
5. Battery - Xperia carries a bigger battery than Touch HD. Though how much time each will provide, we can't say for sure at this point...
6. Manufacturer - HTC vs. SE. This is SE's first WinMo device, so concerns arise... but given the fact that HTC was behind in this device's manufacturing as well, i say that we can rely on the device.
7. 3G Reception - Foo, a senior member here at XDA Developers has brought to my attention that Touch Pro suffers from poor 3G reception but another member says that this is not the case and that he doesn't face any such problems on his Pro. Considering that HTC has improved Touch HD in various aspects over the pro - bigger screen, higher resolution, better sensitivity to the touch screen, more powerful camera and so on - we will just have to wait and see if the 3G reception in Touch HD is better than Pro or not. As for Xperia, we'll have to wait and confirm for that when it releases.
8. Accelerometer - The major feature missing from Xperia is the Accelerometer. But other than putting a lid on some possibly cool games, i don't have much concern over this. But of course, here the Xperia is beaten by the Touch HD!
Other than that, basic differences are there... LED indicators on the Xperia, and In Call Recording in Touch HD, but none too major to consider here. (i leaved keyboard out of this as i already put that forward in the first question i asked at the start of this post).
Conclusion: From where I sit, Xperia is a winner with its sexy look (c'mon. it. is. steel!), fully customizable interface (panels), more RAM, Flash on the camera, full stylish qwerty keyboard, and more.
Hope this helps...
And if anyone feels like it, then add to the list anything you want.
Best Regards.
Salman Khalid.

You must have heard htc is the odm behind x1. From the reviews camera seems close to diamond and pro but with touch focus.

sproxy said:
You must have heard htc is the odm behind x1. From the reviews camera seems close to diamond and pro but with touch focus.
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Yes, i did point that tout in the post above... but HTC had more to do with the hardware from a Win Mo point of view... the Camera is something that SE obviously didn't need help from HTC on.
As for actual comparison of picture quality... we'll know for sure in a few days as to how good Xperia's camera actually is. (one picture over at the Xperiancers blog shows it to be really good)!

msalmank said:
1. Xperia has more RAM. Infact almost 100 MB more. Which is simply awesome, especially if you are looking to port heavy games onto the mobile or run tons of software. How much RAM will panels take up is a big question, but keep in mind that if needed you could release the RAM taken up by Panels by disabling them or setting them however you want. (Loading 9 heavy panels will probably take more RAM than keeping 9 basic or default panels)
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Why you said that Xperia have more RAM ? Look this http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=2525&idPhone1=2246

borce_razor said:
Why you said that Xperia have more RAM ? Look this http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=2525&idPhone1=2246
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This information is outdated. SE increased the RAM in the meanwhile (most likely due to performance issues) up to 384 MByte RAM which is about 100 MByte more then Touch HD has.
But I don't really see both devices in line for comparison, because one has a slide out keyboard and the other one not. This makes a huge difference in usability when it comes to writing and people who are looking for a device with external keyboard really want and need it.
So for most buyers of the Xperia X1 this normally is not only a gimmick like some nice LEDs or better camera, etc - this is really a buy or no-buy decision.
So for me both devices are not comparable, though I voted for the Xperia as it is better concerning my individual requirements.

foo said:
But I don't really see both devices in line for comparison, because one has a slide out keyboard and the other one not. This makes a huge difference in usability when it comes to writing and people who are looking for a device with external keyboard really want and need it.
So for most buyers of the Xperia X1 this normally is not only a gimmick like some nice LEDs or better camera, etc - this is really a buy or no-buy decision.
So for me both devices are not comparable, though I voted for the Xperia as it is better concerning my individual requirements.
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The reason i did the comparison was because both devices have been compared/questioned side-by-side on various forums now. And i did mention, before making a comparison, that: "The way i see it... it totally depends on what attracts you more - a no-keyboard slim black iPhone like mobile or a professional looking and metallic keyboard bearing mobile."

borce_razor said:
Why you said that Xperia have more RAM ? Look this http://www.gsmarena.com/compare.php3?idPhone2=2525&idPhone1=2246
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As Foo already pointed out, that page is out-dated. You can do a search in Google on Xperia and 384 MB RAM and you will get tons of news items and blog posts announcing that change in the hardware from a couple of weeks back.

holy ****, I thought this was a double thread!

nap007 said:
holy ****, I thought this was a double thread!
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One is comparing Touch HD and the other Touch Pro against Xperia...

Here's another compare http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=pdacomparer&id1=1469&id2=1117. Still HD is my favourite

As I posted in your other thread, a lot of this information is just wrong. Where did you ever hear the Xperia had almost 400MB of RAM? Every spec I've ever seen shows 256, the Touch Pro has 288, don't use it in your argument until it's proven... Even SonyEricsson.com doesn't have a RAM spec.
Haha I love how you're sooo biased you can't even say a 5MP camera is better than 3.2, "if there's anything SE knows it's cameras"... Yes, I know that their camera is not up to par with one that has 1.8MP more of resolution.
Once again, the Touch Pro has no issue with 3G reception, far better than other 3G phones I've used...
The manufacturer argument, why don't you make that argument between the HD and Touch Pro? It'd make just as much sense, all of the phones are manufactured by HTC.

Black93300ZX said:
As I posted in your other thread, a lot of this information is just wrong. Where did you ever hear the Xperia had almost 400MB of RAM? Every spec I've ever seen shows 256, the Touch Pro has 288, don't use it in your argument until it's proven... Even SonyEricsson.com doesn't have a RAM spec.
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I'm afraid you should first confirm things yourself. Xperiancers is a blog by SE and here is a quote from their latest blog entry: "The device has a graphics accelerator, a 528 Mhz processor and 384 megs of ram"
(if you'd like to see: http://xperiancers.com/ - Name of post is 'Your Xperia Questions Answered')
Black93300ZX said:
Haha I love how you're sooo biased you can't even say a 5MP camera is better than 3.2, "if there's anything SE knows it's cameras"... Yes, I know that their camera is not up to par with one that has 1.8MP more of resolution.
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Dude... it's my opinion, if you don't agree then don't, but call me biased at my own expense. I clearly stated that 'the Touch HD is again ahead of Xperia with a 5 MP camera over the 3.2 MP camera in Xperia', and i am sure many will agree that SE's cameras are one of the best in mobile devices... but i did not declare Xperia a winner over Touch HD but only implied that in my opinion Xperia'll be better. Furthermore - take into account that Touch HD lacks a flash for the camera, it will not perform up to par in certain conditions.
Black93300ZX said:
Once again, the Touch Pro has no issue with 3G reception, far better than other 3G phones I've used...
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Again... user based experience. Another member here mentioned that he faced 3G reception problems, and i put that in. You say it doesn't, i'll put that in as well.
Black93300ZX said:
The manufacturer argument, why don't you make that argument between the HD and Touch Pro? It'd make just as much sense, all of the phones are manufactured by HTC.
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Dude! did you even read what i wrote? I wrote it clear: "HTC vs. SE. This is SE's first WinMo device, so concerns arise... but given the fact that HTC was behind in this device's manufacturing as well, i say that we can rely on the device."
HTC manufactured Xperia, but it is a SE device and they are the ones who are bringing it out.

i love the HTC touch HD, but with no usa 3g, it turns me off!

netnerd said:
i love the HTC touch HD, but with no usa 3g, it turns me off!
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I'm afraid to add this to the comparison... someone might say something...
I was not aware of this... Maybe they'll add it in the end? or is it confirmed?

I really dont know which one i will choose, i have really bad experiences of SE, it´s quality, but since HTC manufactured Xperia, maybe it´s better.
But i don´t know if it´s worth the wait for the Touch HD either, since it is going to be released later than the Xperia..
I have surfed the web all day long for about 2 days now and really dont know which device to choose.
Really hard!

Nyberg said:
I really dont know which one i will choose, i have really bad experiences of SE, it´s quality, but since HTC manufactured Xperia, maybe it´s better.
But i don´t know if it´s worth the wait for the Touch HD either, since it is going to be released later than the Xperia..
I have surfed the web all day long for about 2 days now and really dont know which device to choose.
Really hard!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TOUCH HD

The comment about the camera is correct. For printing up to A4, anything over 3mp is usually massively outweighed by the lens opening and quality. Small opening ... small amounts of light - causes issues regardless of the CCD or CMOS. It is also correct to suggest that the SE devices have a history of being closer to compact cameras in quality than the toy town stuff you usually get from HTC (I've had loads of HTC devices and love them but the cameras are of little practical use). The other thing worth saying that the X1 will shoot 640x480 video and 30fps like the Nokia E90 and N95. The quality of video of the latter two is almost up to the Hi-8 camcorders (if in good light) which makes them a genuinely useful camcorder alternative. The HD (and all native HTC devices) are still QVGA and the video looks rubbish even on a 2" window on a PC. This should be a huge plus for the X1.
My concerns about the X1 relate to the likely hood that SE won't support and develop the platform. There are many rumours about the Sony and Ericcson relationship as well as the SE / HTC one. Also, Sony will not commit to any future WM devices - infact, it seems they are completely non committal about future OS - UIQ, Android, WM etc. When you look at the P1 issues ... never resolved even after a huge backlash by customers ... it's not promising.
The X1 performance / tuning also worries me. It was announced that there were gfx / video perf issues with 30fps playback very shortly before the release date. They didn't answer any real questions in their pathetic webcast either ... I think there will be fairly horrible issues initially and worry they won't fix them. The added RAM so late in the day may sound positive ... but it shows they don't really know what they are doing. They will have added it because performance was too slow. Do remember that that amount of RAM with WVGA will really cane the battery - a negative which people aren't really considering.
I worry also about the keyboard ... I guess we will have to wait for the first purchasers to confirm either way. These things are enough to stop me pre-ordering when 3 months ago it was a definite purchase for me.
The HD has no keyboard ... I might be able to live without. The problem is more with the lack of button controls. Again, we know very little about it. I would hope HTC would include some kind of soft dpad with dynamic scaling which would allow apps to run VGA on top of the extra screen estate which would have the soft buttons / dpad. If they don't do this, I am very concerned about real day to day use. If they do deliver such a soft key set, then I think it would be almost perfect as long as something else is not missing - like TV-Out ... strangely not detailed ... even though some sites suggest in the spec it is there. The only massive irritation for me is the camera - no flash and no VGA 30fps capture on something this expensive. I was hoping to replace my TyTNII and N95 8GB with a single device .... and it looks like I will still need two - seems like a stupid oversight for such an expensive device. The 3.8" screen may still sway me though. I don't need tiny like lots of people ... as long as I have a decent belt case.
Paul.

two very different devices targeted at different markets, daft trying do a compare on them as one is more of high usage business device the other a low usage media device.
Business or personal
So out of these two, if i wanted a phone to do work on with occasional media usage, id go for the X1, if i wanted something that looked swanky and was a good phone but ultimately a low work usage device then the HD would be it, course using that same logic id actualy not go with either of them as the TP is even more buiness orientated

dazza9075 said:
course using that same logic id actualy not go with either of them as the TP is even more buiness orientated
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huh? how is seeing less is more business orientated? when you in business, u want to see more data on screen, not less data on screen! TP=2.8" 640x480. X1=3.0" 800x480.

netnerd said:
huh? how is seeing less is more business orientated? when you in business, u want to see more data on screen, not less data on screen! TP=2.8" 640x480. X1=3.0" 800x480.
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Oh my god... Did you seriously just say a big issue when making a business oriented phone is having a big screen? That's the most ridiculous claim I've ever heard. In that case, the Touch HD will be purely for business, because the entire phone is just one huge screen. Big screens = multimedia use... iPhone, Touch HD? I don't think I've ever seen a businessman complain "oh man this screen is too small", if that were the case all businesses would have 42" LCD monitors for their computers.

Mobiles.co.uk listing Touch HD 2 (Coming Soon)

Do you think that this is the LEO?
http://www.mobiles.co.uk/htc-touch-hd2.html

Nice find.
Judging by the "Full Spec" tab it's the Leo.

Budadank said:
Nice find.
Judging by the "Full Spec" tab it's the Leo.
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Didn't realise there was a full spec there allready. It does actually say "The HTC Touch HD 2 is also known as the Leo and Pro 3"
Doesn't say anything about a Digital Compass!! Is it supposed to have one?

richardirv said:
Do you think that this is the LEO?
http://www.mobiles.co.uk/htc-touch-hd2.html
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Interesting, must have missed that one

richardirv said:
Didn't realise there was a full spec there allready. It does actually say "The HTC Touch HD 2 is also known as the Leo and Pro 3"
Doesn't say anything about a Digital Compass!! Is it supposed to have one?
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AFAIK the Leo definitely is supposed to have a compass! If it doesn't, that would be the dumbest mistake HTC ever made... A 3 $ piece of hardware missing that would make a 600 $ phone so much better...

MAMeingast said:
AFAIK the Leo definitely is supposed to have a compass! If it doesn't, that would be the dumbest mistake HTC ever made... A 3 $ piece of hardware missing that would make a 600 $ phone so much better...
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Lets just hope that its just the Spec that is wrong!

lets hope digital compass is included in phone
otherwise it would be a real blunder by htc
i think camera should be 8MP at least because 5MP is outdated .........
any how waiting for device .........

I am a bit suspicious but....
http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/25/htc-leo-looking-confirmed-for-o2-uk-debut-will-be-free-on-the-r/
As to spec - I imagine that the specs touted to date are generally on the money, but also quite incomplete. I too heave read that the Leo is predicted to have a digi compass, I guess the next few days will reveal all - little point in HTC keeping this thing under wraps any longer, it's most definitely out of the bag now!
I am getting very very impatient - I WANT this phone!
- 12th Oct?! That's do-able...
Oddly - the aspect of it that atracts me the most (as in, if it didn't have it, I probably wouldn't shell out the £500-ish for the SIM free version I typically buy) is the capacitive screen - I absolutely HATE resistive screens and has long been a bugbear on WM touchphones.

commando0 said:
i think camera should be 8MP at least because 5MP is outdated .........
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The MP-count is not important anymore... A 5 MP camera can be far better than any 8 MP camera with the right hardware and software! So a higher MP-number doesn't say anything about the quality of the pictures anymore...
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm

MAMeingast said:
The MP-count is not important anymore... A 5 MP camera can be far better than any 8 MP camera with the right hardware and software! So a higher MP-number doesn't say anything about the quality of the pictures anymore...
http://www.kenrockwell.com/tech/mpmyth.htm
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Whilst the underlying message that pixels are not the be-all and end-all is correct, a lot of what 'Ken' says is plain wrong.
A VGA-resolution camera is NOT good enough to produce 6x4 prints, not by a mile. 300dpi is taken to be the measure of a true 'photo quality' print, which means you need around a 2MP camera to produce a decent print at that size.
As for mobiles.co.uk, they seem to list every handset ever announced on their 'Coming Soon' page, whether they end up carrying it or not.
They've even got the fabled Sony Ericsson X3 listed.

Another mistake:
"3G
The HTC Touch HD2, formerly known as the Leo, features 3G which stands for third generation, and the system is the third generation in the evolution of mobile networks, after analogue and GSM. 3G offers high speed data transfers and the ability to make video calls between compatible mobile phones."
HTC Leo hasn´t videoconference.

The part you have highlighted is just a standard blurb about what 3G is.
3G, as a technology, does allow people to make video-calls. So that part is not incorrect.
And Leo is a 3G-capable phone, so that's correct as well.
It doesn't actually say Leo is capable of making video-calls though.
So whilst it is certainly a poorly-worded and misleading piece of text, technically speaking it's not incorrect.

Think we can safely assume that the full spec for the Leo hasn't been officially released yet and a lot of people/sites are making educated guessing with no confirmation. Until HTC officially release this I take all other sites specs with a pince of salt!!

Mobiles have also had the HTC Max 4G on their site for an absolute age although as far as I know this phone was never released in the UK. Have you seen the blogs about the O2 catalogue with pictures of the HTC HD2: http://www.engadget.com/2009/09/30/htc-hd2-makes-first-official-appearance-in-o2-uk-catalog/

PowerupMobile said:
Mobiles have also had the HTC Max 4G on their site...
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Yeah, I noticed that.
It'll never be released in the UK, there's no Wi-max networks for it to run on.

[STANDOFF] About Touch HD and HD2

I sold my Touch HD (temporarily with Touch Diamond), waiting HD2! I wonder how many ROMchefs stayed with HD!?!?

xaoc747 said:
I sold my Touch HD (temporarily with Touch Diamond), waiting HD2! I wonder how many ROMchefs stayed with HD!?!?
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i am waiting for the next release with qwerty with one 1ghz snapdragon

I am most likely gonna skip the next gen/WM6.5 , stay with HD and wait for WM7

I am actually waiting for a HTC device with the Nvidia Tegra chipset..

guys shouldn't this topic be on another thread? like Blackstone general discussion?

The only thing I don't like in HD2 is no second camera for video-call and the absence of the stylus to write on keyboards and maybe in some apps is not functional only the finger...

Fidalgos said:
The only thing I don't like in HD2 is no second camera for video-call
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Same here!
Impolicy the rejected second camera.

i reckon nVidia Tegra + WM7 + QWERTY + capacitive (although that should be standard by then!)

Fidalgos said:
The only thing I don't like in HD2 is no second camera for video-call and the absence of the stylus to write on keyboards and maybe in some apps is not functional only the finger...
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Second that....
Oh well, I will sell my HD for the HD2.

I love my HD in a way that i can't see myself selling it unless i see these combination in a phone:
1- nVidea Tegra or SnapDargon
2- Dual/Stereo Speakers
3- 8mp Camera+Flash
4- HD Video Capture (720p)
5- Physical tilting Keyboard (No on-screen keyboard, to work freely)
6- Front camera.
7- 4.1-4.3 inch 480x800
8- 1350mAh+++ Batteries
9- Stylus (Screen Pen)
10- Multi-touch Resistive or capacitive.
Hopefully we'll hear of something like that from hTC soon..
Until then i'll stick with my HD and maybe hear news of upgrading to WinMo 7..

xmsnx said:
I am most likely gonna skip the next gen/WM6.5 , stay with HD and wait for WM7
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Click to collapse
I'll do exactly the same
and if WM7 is another disappointment I think I'll go for an Android phone

I hope they find a better way to input Chinese, 'cause handwriting recognition only works through resistive as of now. HD2 just won't do it for me.
It'd be great to have a capacitive touchscreen and the ability to handwrite in-- hopefully-- the next version... seriously, I think a major reason why HTC has been so slow to migrate to capacitive screens is that they have a huge Asian market to cater.

where is the moderator when u need one?????... this is general discussion not rom developement....

when the phone you mentioned is going to sell, there will be a better specs phone announced... life is always like that
and my plan is: to let my girl friend use my HD, and i will buy a HD2
dosari666 said:
I love my HD in a way that i can't see myself selling it unless i see these combination in a phone:
1- nVidea Tegra or SnapDargon
2- Dual/Stereo Speakers
3- 8mp Camera+Flash
4- HD Video Capture (720p)
5- Physical tilting Keyboard (No on-screen keyboard, to work freely)
6- Front camera.
7- 4.1-4.3 inch 480x800
8- 1350mAh+++ Batteries
9- Stylus (Screen Pen)
10- Multi-touch Resistive or capacitive.
Hopefully we'll hear of something like that from hTC soon..
Until then i'll stick with my HD and maybe hear news of upgrading to WinMo 7..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Stylus you can leave from HD

Will wait for WM7 too.
For me there's no reason to buy HD2. In addition it's huge beast! My HD is quite big and HD2 - oh...

9- Stylus (Screen Pen)
10- Multi-touch Resistive or capacitive.
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Click to collapse
I am afraid this is not achieveable. You cannot have both a stylus and a capacitive screen and I've not seen a multitouch resistive screen yet, except in some weird hardware demos earlier this year.
HD2 is a beast really but there is still something that will not make me change my old HD:
1) I love my phone but If I could have the same in a smaller form I would be the happiest phone owner on the earth and HD2 is even bigger than HD
2) I don't think WM6.5 is ready to be used without a pen
3) I dont'use video calls but .. really ? It does not have a front camera ? Can't believe it
4) Why should we need a double frequency processor to run the same old WM crap? Sense interface is not worth it, just wait for a better optimized version of manila
5) Those devices are not simply phones, they cost A HUGE LOT of money, a producer cannot force you to change one per year without offering very STUNNING new features. HTC should really understand that

xaoc747 said:
I sold my Touch HD (temporarily with Touch Diamond), waiting HD2! I wonder how many ROMchefs stayed with HD!?!?
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Click to collapse
I was thinking about getting an hd2 but wm6.5 is a nogo for me. I will wait for the next generation (wm7) devices or even consider another platform if wm7 is as badly engineered as 6.5.

I´m getting my HD2 next month. I´m thinking about selling my HD but i´m unsure about it. I might keep my HD just for the cooking. The HD2 dont have so mutch more to offer but i think it will be a while before we se a "better" phone from HTC. But if they realese a better (with physical querty) one in the future, then i might just sell the HD2
For now it it seems like i´m not sticking with my HD as i just bought a new TV and a HTPC. But i dont know

jigners said:
guys shouldn't this topic be on another thread? like Blackstone general discussion?
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hispeedworm said:
where is the moderator when u need one?????... this is general discussion not rom developement....
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I take a night off to relax and everyones complaining
I've moved this thread to its correct location....general discussion as its not related to rom development. Some of the more senior member should already have been aware of this LOL
Ta
Rick
EDIT
Also, I think you should add another option into your poll, possibly something like 'undecided' as a lot of users are currently undecided.....

whats with the missing video call front camera

i find it a very weird (and potentially a major problem) design decision that HTC left out the front camera for 3G video call. they have had them in all 3G phones since the universal (2005). why on earth would they stop it. is it really hard to add that front camera in that small place
is there a technical limitations preventing that?
will it be possible to hack in a video call dialer that uses the back camera
i imagine that there will be no need to even enable the power hungry 3G radio most of the time. it makes sense to only temporarily enable it if you are planning to stay browsing for a while

THE GRIZZ said:
i find it a very weird (and potentially a major problem) design decision that HTC left out the front camera for 3G video call. they have had them in all 3G phones since the universal (2005). why on earth would they stop it. is it really hard to add that front camera in that small place
is there a technical limitations preventing that?
will it be possible to hack in a video call dialer that uses the back camera
i imagine that there will be no need to even enable the power hungry 3G radio most of the time. it makes sense to only temporarily enable it if you are planning to stay browsing for a while
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I for one won't miss it. I have only ever used it once and that was to test it. You can never guarentee you're going to be in a 3g area or the person you are calling is. I have used the camera on the front of the Touch Pro to take pictures of me with my kids etc, and it takes better pictures than the main one.

Never used one and probably never will. Not a great loss from my point of view

I would think it would be pretty crucial if one wanted to use it for communicating with sign language.
Other than that I never really meet people that actually use it. Would be interesting to see some statistics about this. My thought is that very few people use it but I may be wrong.

5MP camera - check
Flash - check
Accelerometer - check
Digital compass - check
aGPS - check
3.5mm jack - check
WVGA display - check
+4" display - check
Capacitive touchscreen - check
Ambient light sensor - check
microSD card support - check
WiFi - check
Bluetooth v2.1 - check
1GHz CPU - check
FM radio - check
Proximity sensor - check
448MB RAM - check
Future WM7 support - check
AMOLED display - oh no!
Front camera - oh dear!
TV out - say it's not true!
QWERTY keyboard - you gotta be kidding me!
Now no manufacturer will put every single available hardware feature in a phone. It's never happened. It'll never happen! So...which of the features that HTC have included would you be willing to sacrifice for your front camera? Or your TV out? QWERTY keyboard?
And if those features are so important to you then which of the features that are included in the HD2 are you willing to sacrifice in favour of another model?
I'm sure if we did a poll things like TV out and a front camera would be bottom of most peoples' lists of "must haves".

Ruudfood said:
I'm sure if we did a poll things like TV out and a front camera would be bottom of most peoples' lists of "must haves".
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Lets do it and find out but yeh what you say is true never gonna happen
On the note i have never used to front video camera on mine atm so no loss. Also the video out cool idea but honestly the amount of times id use it i dotn really care, never had it so never gonna miss it kinda thing

I never needed TV out and a front camera. This bad boy hd2 is so loaded with great specs that I like It will be a must have for me (and many other buyers)

THE GRIZZ said:
i find it a very weird (and potentially a major problem) design decision that HTC left out the front camera for 3G video call. they have had them in all 3G phones since the universal (2005). why on earth would they stop it. is it really hard to add that front camera in that small place
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No, they haven't had them in all 3G phones - their Android devices are good examples. It's just a choice they made when designing the HD2 - most of the general public (including myself) have no real use for video calling. It's a nice thing to fiddle with once or twice, but being able to see someone is not at all helpful. Of course, there will be a small minority who really miss the feature, but you must remember that HTC is mainly interested in growing fast at the moment - adding a front-facing camera would make the phone (slightly) bigger and more expensive, and it certainly would not make the HD2 sell significantly better.
I have no idea about a dialer designed to use the back-facing camera - that would be pretty nice if it was managed. It might be a bit more complicated than that though...

Must say the same as Teneka_Khan, has never use video call and will never use. For me that is completly useless

I have every month 3000min of free video calls on my contract and even though I have used the video call function only once in last years, I still want to have the video call option on my devive and dialer... I now, there must be something wrong with me...

galaxys said:
I never needed TV out and a front camera. This bad boy hd2 is so loaded with great specs that I like It will be a must have for me (and many other buyers)
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+1 I'm one of those buyers

I was VERY disappointed when i noticed that there was no videocall cam at the front. Even though i never use it The thing is that when you buy i 3G phone today for that amount of money you expect to have a front cam.
There is moments when it's very useful to have.
I almost canceled my pre order because of this

One day people will understand that if a mobile phone has got ALL the tools that everybody wants the manufacturers will be in trouble. Have you seen how much money Apple has made with the iPhone? Why didn't they start with an 8 or 10 MPX camera? They had only 2 MPX and sold like hot-cakes. They upped it to only 3 MPX and, still, sold even more! Are they capable to have a decent camera? Of course they are! So, why don't they have it? Because - and only because - people like some of you will buy a brand new, slightly tweaked, mobile every few months! And this makes them a lot of money! Keep buying them, chaps! We'll NEVER have the complete, perfect, mobile because the likes of HTC, Apple, Nokia, Sumsung, Sony Ericsson, etc, are not inclined to give us everything in one go. Can you get it? If you want a front camera go and buy a mobile with a front camera; there are dozens of them. The HD2 DOESN'T have one. BUT has lots of other stuff that you cannot find somewhere else. Probably the HD3 or 4 or 5 will have the camera some of you so much crave - even though you never, ever used it! You know what are the HD2 specs. Don't like them? Move on! HTC is not going to install one in the next incarnation of the HD range just because you are pissed off with them... If this model sells well, of course they will have something better next time - but the "bettering" will be done in their own (future financial) terms. I am not criticizing them! I would do the same if it made sense, financially, to my company...

aiwama said:
One day people will understand that if a mobile phone has got ALL the tools that everybody wants the manufacturers will be in trouble. Have you seen how much money Apple has made with the iPhone? Why didn't they start with an 8 or 10 MPX camera? They had only 2 MPX and sold like hot-cakes. They upped it to only 3 MPX and, still, sold even more! Are they capable to have a decent camera? Of course they are! So, why don't they have it? Because - and only because - people like some of you will buy a brand new, slightly tweaked, mobile every few months! And this makes them a lot of money! Keep buying them, chaps! We'll NEVER have the complete, perfect, mobile because the likes of HTC, Apple, Nokia, Sumsung, Sony Ericsson, etc, are not inclined to give us everything in one go. Can you get it? If you want a front camera go and buy a mobile with a front camera; there are dozens of them. The HD2 DOESN'T have one. BUT has lots of other stuff that you cannot find somewhere else. Probably the HD3 or 4 or 5 will have the camera some of you so much crave - even though you never, ever used it! You know what are the HD2 specs. Don't like them? Move on! HTC is not going to install one in the next incarnation of the HD range just because you are pissed off with them... If this model sells well, of course they will have something better next time - but the "bettering" will be done in their own (future financial) terms.
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I don't agree! Touch HD has everything if you were making an argument here. Why couldn't HD2 do the same, this is kinda dissapointment, but I will get HD2 whether it has or doesn't with a front camera. It was a huge dissapointment to me too and I don't think we are expecting too much. But I can compromise that. And it is not a huge problem without front camera, we just have to stay with HD2 without the fun video call that most of the users seldom use.

precsmo said:
I don't agree! Touch HD has everything if you were making an argument here. Why couldn't HD2 do the same, this is kinda dissapointment, but I will get HD2 whether it has or doesn't with a front camera. It was a huge dissapointment to me too and I don't think we are expecting too much. But I can compromise that. And it is not a huge problem without front camera, we just have to stay with HD2 without the fun video call that most of the users seldom use.
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Does the Touch HD have a 1GHz processor? No! Is it as thin as the HD2? No! Does it have the Sense UI? No! Does it have tethering? No! Is the screen as big? No! Does it have a capacitive screen? No! If the HD2 had EVERYTHING that the Touch HD has, nobody would carry on buying the latter! The (very few) lovers of front cameras will still go for it. Others, me included, will upgrade and move on to the HD2. And 99% of our time with it will be to make and receive phone calls and play and show off. How many of us really, really, use Office Mobile, or the FM Radio, or the MP3 Trimmer, or the Voice Recorder, or even the Video Camera on a regular basis? Would you kill yourselves if you had a mobile without all these things? Ten years ago (not even that longer) we all survived without them...

aiwama said:
One day people will understand that if a mobile phone has got ALL the tools that everybody wants the manufacturers will be in trouble. Have you seen how much money Apple has made with the iPhone? Why didn't they start with an 8 or 10 MPX camera? They had only 2 MPX and sold like hot-cakes. They upped it to only 3 MPX and, still, sold even more! Are they capable to have a decent camera? Of course they are! So, why don't they have it? Because - and only because - people like some of you will buy a brand new, slightly tweaked, mobile every few months! And this makes them a lot of money! Keep buying them, chaps! We'll NEVER have the complete, perfect, mobile because the likes of HTC, Apple, Nokia, Sumsung, Sony Ericsson, etc, are not inclined to give us everything in one go. Can you get it? If you want a front camera go and buy a mobile with a front camera; there are dozens of them. The HD2 DOESN'T have one. BUT has lots of other stuff that you cannot find somewhere else. Probably the HD3 or 4 or 5 will have the camera some of you so much crave - even though you never, ever used it! You know what are the HD2 specs. Don't like them? Move on! HTC is not going to install one in the next incarnation of the HD range just because you are pissed off with them... If this model sells well, of course they will have something better next time - but the "bettering" will be done in their own (future financial) terms. I am not criticizing them! I would do the same if it made sense, financially, to my company...
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You have it completely and utterly wrong. I don't know why there are so many paranoid people who think the phone manufacturers are out to get them, plotting their evil plans to screw you over.
That isn't how it works.
Think about it - if some mythical phone company made the "perfect" (that's a whole other discussion!) device, they would grab close to 100% of the market. Put the slightest of effort into understanding basic logic and ask yourself why HTC would setting for a fraction of the Windows Phone market, which in turn is but a fraction of the entire phone market, when you claim they could make a "perfect" device, which would give them market dominance? Oh no, just to screw you, one paranoid little customer over, they choose to make rubbish phones. Sheesh.
Why no front camera? First, look at just about every response here and everywhere else - as much as video calling has been hyped, next to nobody uses it! I was one of those who thought at first "wow what an oversight" but after a few seconds thought - not really. It's an extra cost that doesn't have to be passed on to the consumer, it's less electronics and optics that need to fit in, so we get a thinner, lighter device with more room for a bigger screen.
Percentage of people who "need" a video camera on the front? 1% maybe. Percentage of people who appreciate a cheaper, smaller, more robust device with more room for a bigger screen? 99%. Do the flippin' maths.
Apply the same for everything else. What are the costs of including feature X? What are the benefits? What percentage of people will be attracted/put off by this feature being present/absent, and how many more units will the sell if they can lower the price by not including it?
Now doesn't that make so much more sense than "bwahahaha what features can we deliberately leave out to piss people off, so we get fewer customers and make less money! Hahaha I am an illogical evil overlord who loves to lose money!"?
Logic, people... it's not a swear word.

ToddeSwe said:
I was VERY disappointed when i noticed that there was no videocall cam at the front. Even though i never use it The thing is that when you buy i 3G phone today for that amount of money you expect to have a front cam.
There is moments when it's very useful to have.
I almost canceled my pre order because of this
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Click to collapse
EXactly! Nothing to add from me so far! Why they dropped it from feature list? 640 EUR should be enough money, shouldn't it?

aiwama said:
Does the Touch HD have a 1GHz processor? No! Is it as thin as the HD2? No! Does it have the Sense UI? No! Does it have tethering? No! Is the screen as big? No! Does it have a capacitive screen? No! If the HD2 had EVERYTHING that the Touch HD has, nobody would carry on buying the latter! The (very few) lovers of front cameras will still go for it. Others, me included, will upgrade and move on to the HD2. And 99% of our time with it will be to make and receive phone calls and play and show off. How many of us really, really, use Office Mobile, or the FM Radio, or the MP3 Trimmer, or the Voice Recorder, or even the Video Camera on a regular basis? Would you kill yourselves if you had a mobile without all these things? Ten years ago (not even that longer) we all survived without them...
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Click to collapse
this is entirely your own opinion. I wouldn't think that is how phone companies do like what you're trying to say here. Whatever you mentioned here about what HD2 has and Touch HD doesn't, these are not related to whether it has or not with the front camera. As I've said, we are not expecting much. It is pretty normal nowadays especially for HTC phones with these specs to have a front camera. You are only assuming how HTC do, but I don't agree this. Whether it or not with a front camera, HD2 will still sell like hot cakes. And HTC really does not need to worry if HD2 with front camera or not will affect Touch HD sales. It is obvious Touch HD is selling cheaper now, it still can sell as it is or consider as replaced by HD2.

I use my front camera every day to talk with my wife and son. I just love it. TV out is useless BUT it makes sense to have in a HD devise. In the end HD2 is not an HD. Does it have AMOLED screen? No! Does it record at least 720p video? No! So it is far away from the HD world. Omnia 2 is closer. Sure the 1GHz processor is the best!
Let's see what HTC will launch on the next GSM World in Barcelona! Today I'm happy with my Touch Pro 2.

Marcus Tavares said:
I use my front camera every day to talk with my wife and son. I just love it. TV out is useless BUT it makes sense to have in a HD devise. In the end HD2 is not an HD. Does it have AMOLED screen? No! Does it record at least 720p video? No! So it is far away from the HD world. Omnia 2 is closer. Sure the 1GHz processor is the best!
Let's see what HTC will launch on the next GSM World in Barcelona! Today I'm happy with my Touch Pro 2.
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yeahh..What a pity if Leo doesn't has front camera..sometimes it's very useful for some personal purpose..

Would anyone still get an HD rather than an HD2?

Being smaller and offering a resistive screen plus still being a good phone are there any advantages of the HD over the HD2?

Hokum said:
Being smaller and offering a resistive screen plus still being a good phone are there any advantages of the HD over the HD2?
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woooop another manc i only got my HD like 2 weeks ago, upgraded from my touch diamond, i cudnt afford a HD2, so i got the next best thing lol

I too have a diamond, the reason i'm interested is that i'm outdoors ALOT! So a cap screen is rubbish with gloves on.
I could go for a S200 or TG01 but XDA DEV have no support for these. So a nearly new HD is tempting, but the performance of the HD will be no better than my Diamond other then the extra memory...
There are a few of us Mancs about

i have maybe 50% free ram, when using my HD and thats running Sence 2.5, on the diamond tho it soon shot up to like 20-30% free ram only using TF3D 2.1, but on the other hand, even tho the HD has a higher resolution, things looked alot sharper on the diamond, maybe cuz of its smaller screen size, i like being able to use a sd card tho, im not limited to 4gb like on the diamond and the large screen is gr8 for watching movies, The HD dosent offer that much more than the diamond tho so yeah the HD 2 is the better choice if you can afford it lol I could of got a TGO1 for £200 pound, £35 pound less than i paid for my HD, They got em in the fone shop nr picadilly station in town if you want one lol

Near the train station or those near Picadilly Gardens (bus station)? A TG01 would be tempting.

Near the train station, its just at the top off the hill, they got hundreds of fones in the windows, theres another site floating about called wmdevelopers or sumat, its ment to be like xda but for other wm devices, you'll be able to upgrade a tgo1 there i assume

I'd say you wait for some time -- see what comes out and maybe there will be something even better than HD2!!
As for me (a Touch HD owner) I wont go for HD2, because:
1) it has snapdragon - I was waiting for Tegra
2) There are some rumors about Tegra2 (two times more powerful than Tegra)
3) Im saving some money for a Yamaha WR125X , so I cant afford to spend it on a new phone, of which I will get bored after a few weeks
4) I've also heard some rumors about Toshiba next models (those after TG01) -same snapdragon cpu, but some nice features like 3speakers (good for me as Im a melomaniac)

if i didnot own touch HD already i would be sure to buy HD2. now for me there is no significant advantage of upgrading

right...i have a HD and cannot wait to get my hands on the HD2...im using a custom rom by L26 which uses the Leo interface. using half the power of the HD2, the Leo interface is bearable, very usable actually, however i can just tell that some of the nags will not be an issue with the extra 500Mhtz of processing power and double ram the HD2 will have. i think using my HD as a backup phone will surfice!
=D

I use a stylus almost 100% of the time so will not be buying an HD2.
More likely to get the acer, even after a bad experience with an F900, it's smaller, has better battery life, look's to be a bit faster and is far cheaper.
Couldn't care less about TF3D or sense.
My HD is OK for the moment, I would have preferred them to just change out the crappy msm7201 for snapragon, make the screen "a lot" more sensitive like the S200 apparently is, leave the rest alone.
The HD2 is a windows mobile iphone because of it's input and has no appeal to me because of it,I can barely stand not having a d-pad, let alone no stylus.

imo a resistive screen with a stylus is better on a finger-unfriendly windows mobile, isn't it?

simplistian said:
imo a resistive screen with a stylus is better on a finger-unfriendly windows mobile, isn't it?
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Absolutely. There are all sorts of threads on the Leo forums where people are having real problems with the capacitive screen, and having to practice hard for a couple of weeks before they get the hang of just typing with the standard keyboard.
Also some folk are finding that the capacitive screen is registering all sorts of crazy inputs when they're not even touching it. Someone's got a hack hat seems to improve things, but I would say wait till WM7 comes out, and HTC have sorted their screen technology/sensitivity.
If the HD2 was resistive I'd buy it without hesitation.

Moandal said:
Absolutely. There are all sorts of threads on the Leo forums where people are having real problems with the capacitive screen, and having to practice hard for a couple of weeks before they get the hang of just typing with the standard keyboard.
Also some folk are finding that the capacitive screen is registering all sorts of crazy inputs when they're not even touching it. Someone's got a hack hat seems to improve things, but I would say wait till WM7 comes out, and HTC have sorted their screen technology/sensitivity.
If the HD2 was resistive I'd buy it without hesitation.
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I'd like to think issues between Microsoft and HTC would be resolved with wm7...........but if I was a betting man I'd bet that it would just cause more issues!!

Unfortunately for me (in the US) I have to wait until a branded version comes out. My Touch HD 8585 gets me 3G for now.

Fallen Spartan said:
I'd like to think issues between Microsoft and HTC would be resolved with wm7...........but if I was a betting man I'd bet that it would just cause more issues!!
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most "issues" are solved by XDA, not them

Moandal said:
Absolutely. There are all sorts of threads on the Leo forums where people are having real problems with the capacitive screen, and having to practice hard for a couple of weeks before they get the hang of just typing with the standard keyboard.
Also some folk are finding that the capacitive screen is registering all sorts of crazy inputs when they're not even touching it. Someone's got a hack hat seems to improve things, but I would say wait till WM7 comes out, and HTC have sorted their screen technology/sensitivity.
If the HD2 was resistive I'd buy it without hesitation.
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take in mind when u first brought the blackstone u had to get used to it just as well as any other phone u will buy in the future

wingtytn said:
take in mind when u first brought the blackstone u had to get used to it just as well as any other phone u will buy in the future
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when we first bought the blackstone we are surprised by the huge screen which enabled some finger operations on the finger unfriendly windows mobile, but, whenever you need a stylus, you got an option at least. Not really need to go over a learning and compromising process to get used to it.

simplistian said:
most "issues" are solved by XDA, not them
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Touché, I would tend to agree with you on this

Yep. The 4.3" Screen is just too big - not pocket friendly at all. That and the capacitive screen...

I would personally love to trade my HD for an HD2. The HD2 has a larger screen, led flash and most importantly: a 1ghz cpu... too bad it is not going to happen