Database Users

Possibility of forcing UMTS/GSM to use 1900mhz over 850mhz?

Hey guys,
I have been waiting for this phone since February like many, and mine finally came just less than a week ago. I have been spending much time configuring it and tuning it for my needs, and I must say I think it is an amazing device. Coming from an HTC Universal (which wasn't too shabby in its day) to the X1 is still a big difference. Without getting into a mini-review here, I love the phone and am super happy with it.
That being said, what would make me UBER happy with it was if I was able to somehow force it to use GSM + UMTS 1900mhz instead of the 850mhz towers it seems to favour. I'm up on the Rogers/Fido network in Canada, and the phone always grabs the 850mhz band (verified via FieldTest.exe) even though I know 1900mhz is here (my Universal used it, had no 850mhz GSM or UMTS).
Due to this, I am unable to get 3G as the phone falls back to EDGE (which I'm sure you've seen many notes about this from other North American users of the X1i). This is why I'm asking if we can force the X1 to use 1900mhz towers only. I'm not even sure if it's possible, but if it was, I could at least maybe get 3G speeds for data.
Thanks in advance for any feedback you guys are able to offer!

scar45 said:
Hey guys,
I have been waiting for this phone since February like many, and mine finally came just less than a week ago. I have been spending much time configuring it and tuning it for my needs, and I must say I think it is an amazing device. Coming from an HTC Universal (which wasn't too shabby in its day) to the X1 is still a big difference. Without getting into a mini-review here, I love the phone and am super happy with it.
That being said, what would make me UBER happy with it was if I was able to somehow force it to use GSM + UMTS 1900mhz instead of the 850mhz towers it seems to favour. I'm up on the Rogers/Fido network in Canada, and the phone always grabs the 850mhz band (verified via FieldTest.exe) even though I know 1900mhz is here (my Universal used it, had no 850mhz GSM or UMTS).
Due to this, I am unable to get 3G as the phone falls back to EDGE (which I'm sure you've seen many notes about this from other North American users of the X1i). This is why I'm asking if we can force the X1 to use 1900mhz towers only. I'm not even sure if it's possible, but if it was, I could at least maybe get 3G speeds for data.
Thanks in advance for any feedback you guys are able to offer!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
wouldnt the easiest way of doing that be to turn of gsm, and force umts only?

fards said:
wouldnt the easiest way of doing that be to turn of gsm, and force umts only?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I wasn't even aware that you could do such a thing with WM, however I would still like to have voice calls come in (something that UMTS is not responsible for)...

settings> phone> band > network type
is it worth trying?

fards said:
settings> phone> band > network type
is it worth trying?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the tips fards, but i tried all possible settings in PHONE --> BAND and was unable to get on the 1900mhz band
Hopefully when the X1a comes out, someone can rip its radio ROM and allow us X1i users to flash it...I think we still need a good HardSPL too if my understanding is correct.

TouchHD U.S Users - your Thoughts Please!

I am alarmed at the following article :
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/07/atandt-slowing-edge-to-force-customers-to-switch-to-3g/
I know there is still ambiguity about whether it is a hardware limitation or something that can be done in software, but if this holds true.. i may have to give up the best phone I have ever owned.

That doesn't really make sense, considering the fact that where I live, I don't get 3G coverage anyways...

I've seen no such slowing from my HD. I purchased the HD after an experiment with the US version of the Diamond last year. I had used the UK Diamond since it came out in June and then purchased the US version to get the 3G speed. I rarely saw the H or 3G indicator on my US Diamond, I received Edge service in more than 95 percent of the places I travelled during the period of my experiment. I returned the US Diamond to Best Buy and resumed using the UK version until I got my hands on the HD in late November.
The HD works fine for me without 3G. I can use Wifi when I need it.

I agree... 3G coverage is spotty at best in the States and I've had good performance with EDGE for AT&T on my HD... Admittedly I'm usually in a WIFI hotspot at work so EDGE is only for when I'm on the road but still no complaints.

taimoorhusain said:
I am alarmed at the following article :
http://www.engadget.com/2009/01/07/atandt-slowing-edge-to-force-customers-to-switch-to-3g/
I know there is still ambiguity about whether it is a hardware limitation or something that can be done in software, but if this holds true.. i may have to give up the best phone I have ever owned.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
your worry is real. but it won't come true for a long time -- your phone will last till you switch to a new one.
reading the replies below your post, and the original article (which I also read a few days ago). there seems to be some misunderstanding, i will try to explain, and then address your worry. I will use simple terms, although may should foolish (ie. point 1)
- faster the frequency, the faster the battery drains, because the signal oscillates faster. 850 times a second verses 1900 times a second. for those not familiar with signal, just htink of your phone vibrating 850 times a second or 1900 times a second. the latter kills more battery.
- the higher the frequency the less penetration ability it has.
- frequency is freqency, antenna is antenna. an antenna tuned to 850 MHz frequency can transmit 850 MHz signals, simple enough? but the signal may be modulated differently hence the difference between a 2G and 3G 850 band. so you need different hardware to decode and demodulate the two signals, even though the frequency is the same.
- what AT&T's article is saying, is that. they are not going to add extra towers to broadcast 850 3G signals. rather, they are converting 850 2G towers to broadcast 3G 850 signal. This saves them tons of money, because they only need to, for illustration purposes, flip some switches to modulate a 3G signal, instead of purchasing and deploying the towers, since the existing towers are already tuned to 850 MHz.
so yes, when this "fliping switch" operation is done. phones without 850 3G band will only be able to operate on 1900 signals, hence battery drains faster and worse signal indoors.
but back to my first paragraph, judging from AT&T's past records, it would take them a year or two to finish this operation. so .. at least for me. by the time, i will be moving on to a new phone, and i will keep in mind my next phone will have 850 3G chip (or.. if you have learned from my posting, an 850 3G demodulater

Buggy i know you know alot about these types of things (reading your post in the 3g limitation thread) Would you have any thoughts of something and someone that would be able to help us get the 850 3G frequency working?

I am quite impressed actually at the EDGE speeds I do receive. I don't do much of YouTube and other things that require an intense of amount of data when I do use the internet. Google Maps and Live Search works just fine on EDGE. If I need to browse the internet I just use Opera Mini which works awesome on the HD I might add.
The only complaint I have about this device is that it's not 3G. If the great minds on XDA or somewhere else some how figure out to get 3G then that's even better.
I can't wait to see what new devices HTC launches this year. I hear up to 10 new devices. Heck we might even see a HTC Touch HD Pro with the necessary 3G 850/1900 frequency.

3g
I love my touch HD Edge works great 3G is a big hype

I am surprised with the edge speeds on this phone, way quicker than the Omnia, but.... Get for example an iphone 3G (not trying to make a comparison or a phone war as i am not even a fan of it just the first 3g phone that pops up) and go on to the same website and at same time and you will notice a huge difference in my opinion. The HD uses the same exact radio off of the touch diamond American version so i think it should be possible to enable it.

hd2 data sucks update needed

we need a update asap i can not keep 3g or even edge at all htc must know about this i will be calling them i hope others will follow

if you're using a old sim card you might want to get a new one. a rep told me that they got new sims that might help.

I have 2 new sim cards in both my HD2 phones. Same issue. I have installed s2u2 and on the slide unlock screen I see it switch from H to 3G over and over all day no matter where I am. I really do think something is seriously wrong with these phones and/or the nework. Does anyone else on T-Mobile with s2u2 installed see the same thing. We need to gather enough information to send to T-Mobile and HTC so they will see how serious this issue is. Thank You! )

kevev said:
I have 2 new sim cards in both my HD2 phones. Same issue. I have installed s2u2 and on the slide unlock screen I see it switch from H to 3G over and over all day no matter where I am. I really do think something is seriously wrong with these phones and/or the nework. Does anyone else on T-Mobile with s2u2 installed see the same thing. We need to gather enough information to send to T-Mobile and HTC so they will see how serious this issue is. Thank You! )
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Switching from H to 3G is good... you're getting great speeds then. I can only get edge inside my house. It's not the HD2 that the problem... it's t-mobiles coverage. the 1700mhz band does not go through walls or barriers nearly as well as at&ts 850mhz band.

I've been email HTC about my issues with my phone and the only thing they really say is to remove any 3rd party application and soft reset.. And they also say to contact T-mobile with any further issues.. Like they know how to fix it?

zarathustrax said:
Switching from H to 3G is good... you're getting great speeds then. I can only get edge inside my house. It's not the HD2 that the problem... it's t-mobiles coverage. the 1700mhz band does not go through walls or barriers nearly as well as at&ts 850mhz band.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh that sucks. Do you at least have wifi @ home?
That is true about the 1700 Mhz, but AT&T 3G is mostly 1900Mhz and 850Mhz in very few places so I would expect them to have the same issue but they don't. I think T-Mobile may have the tower spread apart farther than ATT. But who knows.

calling tmobile is useless I tried that 3 times already and I only get excuses like the tower its down or im in a weird area so im just confused I know the network suck s but not this bad.

ihearttreo said:
if you're using a old sim card you might want to get a new one. a rep told me that they got new sims that might help.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Only idiot thinks it is related SIM.
TMO CSRs are famous dumbs!

My HTC Dream gets better reception than the HTC HD2 in areas of weak reception (1-3bars). The HTC Dream got a radio update a month ago that helped it improve reception. I'm hoping for a similar radio update to the HD2.
I don't care too much about poor reception, as long as it can maintain the 1-2bars and not drop the call. The HTC Dream is better than the HD2 at maintaining a weak reception. I get full bars and 3G outside, while indoors in my 'fortress' I only get 1-2 bars.
I called and told them about the bad reception on the HD2 (compared to the HTC Dream. I was to try to manually set the network to check. I wasn't at the same location so I couldn't try during the call. I tried later and the reception didn't seem to improve. I'll be calling back and seeing if a request/problem report could be submitted for their techs.

kevev said:
Oh that sucks. Do you at least have wifi @ home?
That is true about the 1700 Mhz, but AT&T 3G is mostly 1900Mhz and 850Mhz in very few places so I would expect them to have the same issue but they don't. I think T-Mobile may have the tower spread apart farther than ATT. But who knows.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually at&t have been moving all there 3g from 1900 to 850, and I beleive at this point they are mostly 850mhz. They plan to switch it all to 850 eventually.

zarathustrax said:
Switching from H to 3G is good... you're getting great speeds then. I can only get edge inside my house. It's not the HD2 that the problem... it's t-mobiles coverage. the 1700mhz band does not go through walls or barriers nearly as well as at&ts 850mhz band.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Same issue here. Edge in the house. As soon as I go outside, I'm on 3G/H.

HD2 in HSPA+ coverage areas

Does anyone here have an HD2 with stock TMO USA ROM in one of TMO's HSPA+ coverage areas? Does the signal indicator remain 3G, or does it switch to the H icon?
I'm not asking for users of cooked ROMs, since we all know the icons can differ depending on what the chef choose to use on their ROM.

i'm in the 904, and mine switches between 3g and h. if i'm in the living room, it stays on h, in the bedroom 3g.

mr8820 said:
i'm in the 904, and mine switches between 3g and h. if i'm in the living room, it stays on h, in the bedroom 3g.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
My connection icon goes back and forth between 3G and H a lot, usually flipping to H whenever I connect and am actively passing data, then back to 3G when the connection is on but idle.
I am using a stock ROM, but...I'm using aftermarket taskbar icons for notifications like that. I understand that the stock notification icons don't ever seem to switch to H, only once you have some non-stock icons there does that happen. I don't remeber mine ever switching before I added the new icons.
Honestly though I don't think it does much more right now than let you know you've got a HSPA+ capable link between you and the tower...but from what I've read T-mobile still hasn't yet flipped the switch on the backhaul elements (from the tower to the network) on most of the towers that are ready for it.
EDIT: Also, have you made sure that you have HSDPA enabled in your phone settings?

I am also in Jacksonville Florida (904) I have a cooked ROM, there is a huge difference between the two. So trust me when I say the towers around here are very much active.

Jamison904 said:
I am also in Jacksonville Florida (904) I have a cooked ROM, there is a huge difference between the two. So trust me when I say the towers around here are very much active.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ok awesome then. I'd heard they were still dragging their feet on it, but a small number of places were already feeling the joy

I just ran across this article, which describes a recent release from Tmo listing the markets that already have HSPA+ turned on, and those that are coming next:
http://www.tmonews.com/2010/05/hspa-update/

mr8820 said:
i'm in the 904, and mine switches between 3g and h. if i'm in the living room, it stays on h, in the bedroom 3g.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Actually I was digging on this a little more, and saw a thread on ppcgeeks about it that you had posted in lol.
Reading that and some others, it seems that there's a bit of confusion (I was too)...what Tmo has already enabled on the network now is HSPA 7.2, which is not exactly the same thing as the HSPA+ (theoretical limits over 54Mbps). HSPA+ is what's being tested and exists in a few cities now, more coming 2nd half of this year.
I've read confirmation that the HD2 is HSPA 7.2-capable, but I've found nowhere that says for sure that it's able to use HSPA+...lot's of speculation, no hard confirmation. I have however seen several indications that no phones in Tmo's current lineup have the HSPA+ secret sauce

Yeah ive also read that the radio in the HD2 is only HSPA 7.2, here's hoping that at least the the HSPA+ roll out will allow us to make full use of the 7.2 megabits it can pull down.
Question though, if TMO's tower radios are software updatable to HSPA+ then why couldn't the HD2 or any other phone's radio be software updatable to HSPA+ as well?

Jamison904 said:
I am also in Jacksonville Florida (904) I have a cooked ROM, there is a huge difference between the two. So trust me when I say the towers around here are very much active.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
is the 560kbps in your sig what you're regularly seeing on TMO up there in Jacksonville? cause i don't have much trouble hitting a megabit per second at times here in Tampa.

I hate living in Utah. We are always the last to get these fast speeds.

i live in long beach, ca. and work at the port of los angeles. in these areas, i get a mixture of edge, 3g, and HSPA.
Specifically, I get a mixture of Edge and HSPA here at home. I get mostly HSPA when I'm driving outside the house locally.
I get mostly HSPA and a little 3g mixture at work.

I get a good mix of H, 3G and E in my area....im in Jersey..less than 10 minutes from NYC

Weird thing is i was getting HSPA (The H symbol on the signal strength thingy) since a month back. I am in the 818 area (Los Angeles - The valley)

im in the philadelphia market area where it started and with the shipped rom my device was in 3g mode all the time didnt notice that it was on h mode till i put on a cooked rom now i never see the 3g icon its always in h but the 3g will come and go to h as it pleases depending on location and if the hspa covers that area

Guys there is a difference between HSPA+ and HSDPA/HSUPA..
HSDPA/HSUPA is capable of maximum speeds of 7.2 mbps, but HSPA+ is theoretically capable of maximum speeds of 56 mbps, ofcourse us end users never see anything near the maximum. Optimistically it should increase the AVERAGE throughput or download speed for us on HSDPA as the backend at the cell towers will have much more capabilities.

inf3rno1 said:
Guys there is a difference between HSPA+ and HSDPA/HSUPA..
HSDPA/HSUPA is capable of maximum speeds of 7.2 mbps, but HSPA+ is theoretically capable of maximum speeds of 56 mbps, ofcourse us end users never see anything near the maximum. Optimistically it should increase the AVERAGE throughput or download speed for us on HSDPA as the backend at the cell towers will have much more capabilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very true, and commonly confused by many.
Although HSPA7.2 is technically already available in all of T-Mobile's existing 3G markets, like inf3rno said those with compatible handsets (HD2, etc) probably won't see everything it can deliver until the HSPA+ capable backend is turned up on your local towers.

sirphunkee said:
Very true, and commonly confused by many.
Although HSPA7.2 is technically already available in all of T-Mobile's existing 3G markets, like inf3rno said those with compatible handsets (HD2, etc) probably won't see everything it can deliver until the HSPA+ capable backend is turned up on your local towers.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I keep getting conflicting answers. Is the t-mobile HD2 HSPA+ capable? Either now or with future rom updates? I am very curious.

djdanska said:
I keep getting conflicting answers. Is the t-mobile HD2 HSPA+ capable? Either now or with future rom updates? I am very curious.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I too am keeping my eyes open for a more solid answer to that question. The most believeable-sounding one I've seen so far indicates that NO current hardware is HSPA+ capable (including the HD2), not until certain new models are released later this year (and no, I didn't see any sign of which exact ones will have that).
So, I'm expecting to not fully benefit from HSPA+ (as opposed to HSPA7.2)....but I could certainly be wrong, and would love it if I were!

7.2 is fine with me. 21 or less would be great, but can't get everything. Besides, i would not expect to reach anywhere near 21 megs down. Or i won't believe it until i see proof or see it in person. lol.

I'm in NYC, have HD2 stock rom pluse cookies home tab.
i did mobile speed test, and speedtest . i get 1847kbps down and 650kbps up. ive never seen a H on my handset but i get faster then hspda speeds. the other night i got 9 mbps down and 4mbps up.

Possible ways to boost 3g speeds?

Just wanted to start a quick lil thread about possible ways to boost 3g speeds.... Other then moving, lol...
I live right outside the la metro area and my 3g speeds are deplorable, downright suck, its not like I life in the boonies either, I live in a highly concentrated area with 2 sister towns of over 300k people and always have a 3g symbol on my phone... But for the most part I can't ever get speeds over 300KBS DL/UL and that's on a good day....
I'm currently running eugene's vibrant6 2.1 rom that is supposed to boost data connectivity, and for me it doesn't, along with the lag fix which seems to only effect the normal tasks and application uses of course not the actual speed at wich they operate on the 3g network.
I was reading in a thread about the possibility of using the 850 3g band of att's listed on the phones debug menu but it doesn't seem to actually work although there's a possibility we can use att's 1900 band along with our own t-mobile 1700 and 2100 bands and am certainly interested to see if we can always connect to those 1900 towers for sure short of
unlocking our phones and slipping in an att sim card...
I am by no means an expert on the subject but figure this could be a good paver for every one to compile their mods, fixes, hacks for this very subject making it very easy to find this sort of info.
Pooped from my Samsung Vibrant using XDA app...
Dont mind the skidmarks...

Bump for the day, place holder for list of possible resolutions
Pooped from my Samsung Vibrant using XDA app...
Dont mind the skidmarks...

Location, location, location. If the tower is in the neighborhood of doctors and lawyers, full speed. A tower on the other side of the tracks might not get the best pipe.

attached is a pic of my normal at home speed and a test I ran where a known brand new tmobile tower was built(the better of the 2) using xtremelabs app.... oddest thing is for some reason both tests say they were ran on the edge network when I most certainly had 3g symbols visible at time of test???