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Any word on tethering for the DVP?
If it's looking like it's not going to be possible I want to order the Omnia before VAT goes up.
Thanks in advance,
cfp
Not a matter of if its possible (I am sure it is..) It's how to do it.. I havent gotten past finding a diagnostic screen and the deafining silence on my posts tells me no one else has either. YET..
So you'd be very surprised if tethering wasn't available in a few months?
Tethering was SUPPOSED to be a major feature of WP7.. but the carriers gave MS a huge pushback on that, as they had different plans on getting more money out of thier customers for tethering. So it was removed, on one phone (I believe the Samsung) they have found the "Work around".
I have seen on some videos and boards the things HTC wanted to do to the OS but was stopped from doing by MS in regards to customizations. So again there has to be ways to do some of this.
So I firmly believe its in the OS buried somewhere. At worst we have to registry hack to get to it.
The Devs here are amazing.. and its only a matter of time until they crack the OS and come up with ways to customize the tiles, tether, custom ringtones (that has already been done through Chevron), and the like.
The real question is are the Devs going to have to fight through the OS every step of the way or is MS or HTC (Or someone inside) going to "leak" some of the needed elements that will help attain those goals.
If they can crack iOS WP7 should be crackable too.
Would love to see something like htc's Windows 6.5 "Wi Fi Router" on Windows Phone 7 phones.
cdgoin said:
Tethering was SUPPOSED to be a major feature of WP7.. but the carriers gave MS a huge pushback on that, as they had different plans on getting more money out of thier customers for tethering. So it was removed, on one phone (I believe the Samsung) they have found the "Work around".
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Click to collapse
Where are you getting this information from? There has never been any mention of tethering being part of WP7, not in the test builds, tech preview and obviously not in the final release. And where is the "pushback" from carriers? In fact if you read here http://wmpoweruser.com/telstra-thinks-windows-phone-7-is-very-competitive-wants-tethering/ the carrier rep actually says they DO want tethering in WP7.
There is NO evidence that tethering was present at all and then removed for any reason, and the simple fact is that its just not there and we have no idea how it will be implemented when and if it actually is officially added to WP7.
In a number of sources.. http://www.engadget.com/2010/09/23/windows-phone-7-has-tethering-support-up-to-carriers-whether-to/ its in the OS but disabled.
Lastly there was even a notice early on that like WM6 it would be intragal to the OS, and that MS was going to make carrier not charge for it and it would be free. Fpr the life of me can not find those articles.. (I'm not a conspiracy theorist.. but... I KNOW I read them... )
As we all know the Samsung can do it if you do a few hacks and jump through a few hoops. So its obviously there.
I was even told TODAY by T-mobile customer rep its a $15 option.. didnt say how it would work though. REALLY thinking of paying for the $15 option and seing how they do it. Good thing the old WM6.5 can tether without any blockage.
efjay said:
Where are you getting this information from? There has never been any mention of tethering being part of WP7, not in the test builds, tech preview and obviously not in the final release. And where is the "pushback" from carriers? In fact if you read here http://wmpoweruser.com/telstra-thinks-windows-phone-7-is-very-competitive-wants-tethering/ the carrier rep actually says they DO want tethering in WP7.
There is NO evidence that tethering was present at all and then removed for any reason, and the simple fact is that its just not there and we have no idea how it will be implemented when and if it actually is officially added to WP7.
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I'm agreeing with you...I've never seen this in any spec or announcment. I do know that tethering is in the OS, but its a setting that is preset to off by the OEM. It's exposed by accident in the Samsung....and I'm sure others have it. I've always been under the belief that tethering will be exposed, once the appropriate data plans are available. I think of tethering like I think of luggage on an airlines....if you pay, you can bring all the bags you want....No pay, no bags....
It seems to me that the KINm phones (or atleast the TWOm) are the only product in a specific niche of the cell phone / smartphone market, namely they offer WiFi browsing w/o an expensive data plan.
I would suspect that there is a pretty big group of users who would want exactly that. But, they probably don't know the option exists, especially if Verizon doesn't really advertise this phone. (They don't even have it in Verizon stores that I have been to, only online, listed under feature phones). Of course, it's not really in Verizon's best interest to promote this, considering they _want_ you to pay for a data plan.
So, this leaves me feeling very uncertain whether this "relaunch" of the KIN phones will ever catch on?
Also, is anyone else on the board interested in this phone still? I thought Kin threads were fairly active, but maybe it's just me?
Jon
jon2012 said:
It seems to me that the KINm phones (or atleast the TWOm) are the only product in a specific niche of the cell phone / smartphone market, namely they offer WiFi browsing w/o an expensive data plan.
I would suspect that there is a pretty big group of users who would want exactly that. But, they probably don't know the option exists, especially if Verizon doesn't really advertise this phone. (They don't even have it in Verizon stores that I have been to, only online, listed under feature phones). Of course, it's not really in Verizon's best interest to promote this, considering they _want_ you to pay for a data plan.
So, this leaves me feeling very uncertain whether this "relaunch" of the KIN phones will ever catch on?
Also, is anyone else on the board interested in this phone still? I thought Kin threads were fairly active, but maybe it's just me?
Jon
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I agree that if Verizon would advertise this phone it would possibly catch on. As for the Kin in Verizon stores, that's actually where I got mine and I've seen Verizon's reps trying to persuade people into getting the phone.
The phone seems to be getting pretty good reviews and response from buyers, but like you said Verizon is doing a poor job of promoting it.
And there are a handful of us both here and on Microsoft's forum site that have been trying many different approaches, but unforturnately none of us are experts in routing phones. A few us have bricked phones now, and we still haven't made to much progress, but still hoping someone can make progress.
This link rates the twom as the best messaging phone.
Kin TwoM= Win!
I am switching to the kin twom from a HTC Thunderbolt. I have a xoom as well, so I really don't need to keep paying for data on my handset. I have had several android phones, and for that matter several winmo phones in the past. I am excited about this because this really is a great phone for a "feature phone". No data, but having wifi is really sweet. I want to hack it and port android to it, which may not be possible, but either way, I think this really is a win, especially if you have a tablet.
Spectredroid said:
I am excited about this because this really is a great phone for a "feature phone". No data, but having wifi is really sweet. I want to hack it and port android to it, which may not be possible, but either way, I think this really is a win, especially if you have a tablet.
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that depends on the point of view. For me, even if i'm pretty naughty with it, it isn't a great phone, caused in most part by the software..
- Software lags a lot (should not for the "few" resources that we use).
More if you take in account that we are using a tegra device with a 0'6Ghz CPU. My crappy PDA with 203mhz can play Age of empires mobile without lagging, and this phone can't just run the menu smoothly (sometimes). I smell bad optimization...
- The browser support for rtsp is kinda lame (no flash support and just redirection to mobile sites to a streaming protocol). Browser in general is pure **add your favourite badword here**.
- The wifi detection is barely ok, but several times it can't find the ESSID even if it's near it (@ my home wifi router) and you have to turn on, turn off the wifi till it awakes.
- Suffers from random reboots (if some software freezes). Happens to me sometimes, even with the phone playing the "i'm like a brick" game alone over my desk.
- It's battery is fastly drained by the OS, cause you cant close apps, and they are surely running in the background, like other windows ce OS's. If you open your browser after rebooting, it's there forever. If i could add only 1 app to a kin in the wooorld, i would add a battery/app ultraconfigurator to reduce so.
- Sometimes it can't even load some apps and shows a "loading..." window till it's... well loaded.
.....
On the other hand, the screen is pretty well done, imo. It detected my touchs almost perfect, whenever i tried.
At least, they solved the old bug that the original kin two had, where you set a wifi and can't reenter wifi settings cause the os hanged doing so (one or several reboots needed).
It would be so cool if it was sold unlocked & without contract for 100$. Then use dataplan with the company you want, and with installable apps.
Just wondering if anyone knows details on how market listings work. I know there are some apps that show or not to certain phones, but is that just a version issue, a special exception google makes?
At any rate, it's moot, because if google has a solution, they aren't making it very clear to lots of people.
Anyway, the problem:
As android ages, the phones age, and the apps mature. There are lots of apps that won't adequately run on older phones, but as far as I can tell, the only recourse devs have is to put a note in the description, which stops no one from actually downloading it, then clogging the reviews with 1 star "does not work on the ___" reviews.
While this was always a problem, now that we've reached the point in time where this is starting to happen to Droid 1 users, it's less an annoyance, and more a serious issue. Ratings almost mean nothing on those apps, and it's hard to use the reviews to see if there are actually any real issues.
(There are 10 billion droid users, and because it was true for quite a while they seem particularly locked in to the "I have one of the better phones out there" mentality )
Ok, rant over. Not sure anyone else even notices this.
Also, I'm not sure the solution is to restrict access, but an official way to list the phones that work or don't work needs to be in place, and then maybe another dev option to still allow access*
Then, if your phone isn't compatible, but the dev okays downloading anyway, you are given an extra screen to dismiss, explaining the app probably wont work for you, and you aren't allowed to leave reviews.
*Not all phones are equal, a stock phone, and a tricked out custom kerneled OC'd version, are very different, so a user might opt to give it a whirl anyway.
I have several apps on the market. In the manifest for the app you declare the minimum version of Android required for the app, and it's my understanding that phones that do not have at least that version of Android will not see the app.
Now, just because an app doesn't work on one person's phone, and they write a nasty review saying "doesn't work on the Epic!" doesn't actually mean that it doesn't work on the Epic, it just means that one person couldn't get it to work. Also, the developer may have made some hardcoding choices (like directories, etc.) that are not universal, and that may lead to incompatibilities that were un-anticipated. But, other than version of Android, I'm not sure what else is available to a developer to restrict access.
Yeah, I figured you could set the version. It's too bad there's no way to control it a bit finer.
I also realize that it's entirely possible someone is just being an idiot, but the fact remains we're past the days where you could necessarily infer anything about the phones from the version, or NEED the latest API version to do something useful/cool.
There are apps that legitimately don't run on some phones, and I feel like google needs to offer an official solution, rather than rely on dev comments that no one reads.
Obviously there are lots of ways to fake what your phone is, and whatnot, so nothing is going to be perfect, but there needs to be some way to officially denote "This app only requires 2.2, but your phone can't be one that shipped with Cupcake"
Edit: perhaps an easier approach is to have a market setting that only factors ratings/reviews of people that have the same phone.
I also don't mean to sound like I install every 5 star app, and wont even think about installing a 3 star app, no matter what I've heard. I've just noticed this in apps I was installing for one reason or another, and felt bad for the devs. It also gives a little less incentive to provide new/cool things for those of us with better phones.
I also suppose there's no "official" guidelines on what these stars are supposed to mean, but to me 1 starring an ap that says "this won't work for you" when it doesn't work for you is like telling people your dentist sucks because he wouldn't change your oil or make you a burger.
Hey guys, remember when the carriers blocked wireless tethering apps from the market for 'their phones'? I don't believe they ever REMOVED the apps from the market, just tagged them in such a way that they are not visible to any of the phones they provide service for. Just a thought, maybe devs could do the same kind of 'blacklisting' based on model number...
Sent from my pocket rocket
I don't care about Carrier IQ or who did remove it, Carrier IQ is suppose to help sprint and sprint already has a network to track people and they own the network, they can look at your browsing history and text messages.
Hell they might keep log on calls but they might have limited access to your phone to check on the signal strengths and CIQ is suppose to help sprint get better coverage.
So please stop giving people false hope
Hmmmmmmmmmmmm interesting very interesting
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
.... Did you guys see who was first ?
Removing it makes the device run faster with no ill side effects, so I'm in.
bigray327 said:
Removing it makes the device run faster with no ill side effects, so I'm in.
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Click to collapse
That because of the Ext4, tweaks and Overclocking
bigray327 said:
Removing it makes the device run faster with no ill side effects, so I'm in.
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Click to collapse
Is there a comparison somewhere, or are we just assuming?
Serious question, not being sarcastic.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
BWFBezerk said:
Is there a comparison somewhere, or are we just assuming?
Serious question, not being sarcastic.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA App
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Click to collapse
Systems and Frameworks with no CIQ scored higher in benchmarks back when we first started removing it, but it's been so long that I can't remember by how much.
Do we even know who is responsible maybe it was samsung and they do not have access to all that data like sprint does other than by using a program like CIQ. Not sure if its in other samsung phones but maybe sprint is the only one that let them include it?
Before people start jumping on the "Keep it" or "Remove it" bandwagons, they should probably educate themselves on the product. People can simply go to their website and inform themselves before making said decision (the company is pretty open about what their products do). I personally don't care if it is there or not. I don't believe Sprint is even taking advantage of the full capability of Carrier IQ ( Some of the logging and such is off by default).
On another note, Carrier IQ has the potential to collect metrics about much more the signal strength; this isn't the only purpose of the software. And depending on what it collects, how it collects, and how often, it can certainly lead to performance and battery degradation.
Finally, I think it would be smarter if Sprint was upfront about the benefits of such metric collecting software on their devices, AND gave the customer the ability to opt in or out. I actually opted into something similar back in my Windows Mobile days (albeit the company payed me each month for opting in. It was a few bucks each month, and basically covered the cost of my data plan). Software like this CAN BE BENEFICIAL!! My 2 cents...
Ryan
Benchmarks only help show improvements in tweaks imo. Real world my phone feels the same whether im hittin 2000 or 2500 on quadrant. Not to mention I saw 2600+ well before ciq removal goin back to one of the leaked froyo builds.
Sent from my SPH-D700 using XDA Premium App
Ciq was not being used at all really.. but the service was running. Killing extra running services that are useless is always a good thing an noone can really argue that. The paranoia behind CIQ was propaganda for the most part. It has/had potential to be infringing, but sprint doesn't need it to track us or infringe on our privacy. I am certain that battery life, smoothness, and stability have all increased since removal. It's my opinion, and that's all that matters... my latest rom is by far the smoothest and most stable I've ever used. Is it noCIQ? Not entirely, but I will continue to remove it because I feel like its part of the equation.
So yea bull**** sorta, but it makes people feel good and it makes my phone feel good..
I'm with the noobnl about this CIQ paranoia. If you have an android phone, Google and Sprint already have your entire contact list, emails, all your locations, your list of apps, visited web sites, etc, WITHOUT using any spyware. As I understand it CIQ gives them lots of data about network parameters that help Sprint tune their network. I'm all for that.
I haven't seen a direct performance and battery life comparison between an identical rom with and without CIQ. I also don't care about benchmarks, I just want a phone that doesn't lag and has a battery that lasts all day.
Seems to me that if you are concerned about CIQ spying on you, you probably shouldn't use a smartphone in the first place.....maybe you shouldn't even carry a cell phone.
CIQ = Unproven threat
Built-in FM Radio = Vapor
Built-in TV-OUT = Vapor
EXT4 OFF over EXT4 ON/RFS = sacrifice stability for e-peen scores (lack of best practices mentality).
It probably does collect information that could benefit us, sprint, service, support, products ect. BUT, since it's off by default, it's not doing much, so its better in my opinion to have it removed.
Sent from my SPH-D700
As long as I've had ****ty 3g speeds and having to resend text multiple times because they failed to go through 2 or 3 times before I'm pretty convinced Sprint don't give 2 ****s about how good my service is. I'll go without CIQ anyday.
noobnl said:
I don't care about Carrier IQ or who did remove it, Carrier IQ is suppose to help sprint and sprint already has a network to track people and they own the network, they can look at your browsing history and text messages.
Hell they might keep log on calls but they might have limited access to your phone to check on the signal strengths and CIQ is suppose to help sprint get better coverage.
So please stop giving people false hope
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Click to collapse
Lol thanks noobni I like your style just read the request bout you helping with cm7 an the discussion about ciq then I saw this thread had too laugh.
I honestly don't think it's as malicious as the ACS team put it, but it does slow things down (even if by a little). And the less services running in the background for myself, the better.
I'm not sure where I stand I see no performance improvement with no ciq. How ever sprint hasn't stolen my identity either so mabye its not such a big deal
Just thought I would throw in my 2cents on this topic.
Facts we publicly know:
CarrierIQ has access to every aspect of interaction between the device and the user.
CarrierIQ has the ability to log all data it has access to.
CarrierIQ has the ability to transmit all data it has access to.
Removal of CarrierIQ, as stated by both Sprint & Samsung, will void your warranty.
What Software packages of this type are capable of:
Logging and transmission of data may be enabled without notification of the user at any time via alpha-numeric string sent via SMS or MMS, via the CDMA Network, WiFi or Bluetooth.
The ability to disable geo-tagging in the latest FROYO release. Now CarrierIQ has the ability to know where you take your pictures. It may even have the ability to transmit said pictures along with its embedded GPS information.
It has the ability to monitor call information, tower location, signal strength, did the call drop, etc., to improve the Sprint network. But CarrierIQ is so invasive that it has the ability to also know, what number you were talking to, what name if any it is associated with in your contacts, how often and how long you talk to that number, are they also your friend on social networking sites if you sync with those sites. Why does Sprint need this level of "metrics"?
Does it know whats on your calendar? How many alarms you set and what for? Why does Sprint need to know this?
Every application you use, the type, how often and for how long. Why?
Every key stroke via hardware or software based keyboards. Every every text message you send or receive, every user name, every password can now be logged.
The possibilities are almost endless.
As we all know, Sprint is not the most "secure" wireless carrier. Sprint's past is riddled with employee's "stealing" customer information and fraud. Can you actually tell me with a straight face that you trust them with this type of invasive capability? Or look at it another way, can you trust the source code, the or those who hack for malicious purposes? Think identity theft, think personal and family safety.
I'm not worried about Sprint gathering info. Anyone with a smart/cell phone, internet, cable tv, or walks outside is already having their activities monitored. But I put custom ROMs on my phones because I want a streamlined experience that I like. Take out what I don't need and give me only what I want. If CIQ were that beneficial to Sprint, they would tell us why we should keep it in our ROMs. They know it's been taken out in a lot of ROMs, they're not blind. As far as I can see it is one less running service and that means better performance and battery. I consider it bloatware. If you're gonna argue that CIQ removal is unnecessary, then so are the Sprint apps noone uses..
Also, the EVO has CIQ, so it's not just a Samsung thing. And the noCIQ ROM I have on my wife's EVO runs smooth as butter and has excellent battery life. Of course it's more than just the noCIQ, but every little bit helps.
Seems to me the only people that would argue against CIQ removal are Sprint advocates and those jealous they didn't figure out how to do it.
So hypothetically is there any way to enable only the basic 'metrics' collecting as it pertains only to signal strength, etc, and remove the more specific data mining? My disgust with all surveillance aside, I think this is an issue because this is created by a third party, therefore I am guessing they have access to anything it could access, even if they dont use it already, who are THEY selling this to? I really dont think this has a lot to do with sprint and homeland insecurity breaking your door down for whatever it is you do, but more for the typical corporate data mining for marketing, and other BS... kind of like how FB's ads are predictive based on your friends, likes, etc. This is what I would like to lose. I also really doubt they cannot collect this information using servers on their side, instead of making our phones do all the work (if they were polled), we all know all carriers, isp's , etc can track and record pretty much everything we do, google does it, but thats part of the reason for having an android. As far as law enforcement goes, they can already get anything that would be relevant in a real court on their side, now analyzing your personality and behavior and schedule is the crap that 'law enforcement' has taken too far... think 1984.
Anyways, so I guess it boils down to this, is there a way to keep only the signal strength features, IF they cause us little to nothing as far as battery or performance? I dont mind that stuff, but the more invasive aspects, I dont like making it any easier for a pig or marketing douche to figure out how to better sell to me until they decide to lock me up I have seen CIQ removed in parts (Chris41g?), but it would be nice to have a breakdown of what is kept and what is removed (Chris if you already have, sorry haven't looked at your thread lateley, but might today ).
oh, and final bit, the reason I am so skeptical about the third party aspect is that that enables corporations, and the government, to point the finger at someone else, and in Govts case, access info they would need a warrant for otherwise (even if they only had to get it after the fact)... this is how FBI and CIA share information, the 'patriot' acts and the others that went with it pretty much set this up, we dont really have privicy anymore, unless you wanna join Ice-T and the lo-Teks.
I am currently looking for an alternative OS or ROM on a phone. My big challenges are I have a great grand fathered in at&t data plan. I don't want to loose and There is no good phone that is both on their list and seems to give me the option to try different ROMS or OS's if one dose not fit my needs.
I truly believe if there is a place that linux could fit best it is on my private device. I don't mind windows for my Daily desktop but in the past few months I have watched the location data icon flash on the top of my phone despite having turned location data off. It would be nothing for google to truly allow us to make this choice on our own. An it always felt wrong to get a google phone hack it and then side load a ROM like copper or even lineage.
I haven't looked into Paranoid Android user yet. The real thing I keep bumping my head against is compatibility with AT&T so I guess I am here to ask the following questions.
If I do a custom OS like Post Market OS, Sailfish, even Ubuntu touch. Will some screw with my AT&T plan while others don't. Its not like I am going to tell them I switching the OS but I imagine there is something in there that allows them to throttle remotely and prevents tethering etc? perhaps one of the choices spoofs that. What is the best ROM/OS for this? Crapy call by the courts on that one BTW when that decision was handed down, and kudos to the absolute BOSS who went after AT&T. Funny thing is I am not even that big of a hot spot user. I have no problem with cafe wifi. It's not like I am doing banking there and I air gap that Laptop from my home wifi. The rare occasion that I have needed it was a recent business trip and even that wasn't allot of data. But I digress.
Second question I want to support the linux community that are building new OS's for existing devices as I think that is really the week point for adoption at this time. I have been thinking about it and I think the best way to do it would be to hire a new developer to give a hand to an existing project for a few weeks. Fresh eyes and all that. Any recommendations on how to select one?
It's not that there is anything wrong with ROM's but they all use AOSP and allot live hardware designed for there retail version android meaning they get at least a licensing fee for each one. I am big believer in actual capitalism in divers markets with real consumer choice. What we have today is not it and supporting the behemoths in any way isn't really the key to success. I could take you down the rabbit hole of how the problem is the government and things like the CIA investment corporation AKA In-Q-Tell. Picking winners and loser's and taking free market's to the wood shed and shooting it in the head. However I think that is enough and it gives my disposition. So, you might Have a good Idea on how to guide me.
Thanks for any help.
WoW no response at all. Did I post this in the wrong place maybe it should be someplace else.
As per the mod bump i guess