Hello all,
This post is in regard to the Google Android Challenge put out by Google to create/develop new software for the Google Android shell. If you haven't had a chance to read about it, it's basically a new OS created by Google to run on any type of PDAesque cellular phone. The challenge issued is then to develop new software for this OS (written in Java) so that when it is released it will have software available for it.
My question to all of you is what software would you like to see developed for this new OS? The reason I am asking for ideas is because I am a CS undergraduate student working in a research group to create one of these programs. Ergo, I figured asking you guys what you'd like to see created would be the best way to get ideas that will make sense and benefit the community.
Any ideas you submit here may be used in the creation of new software--if you require idea copyrights that can be worked out.
Thank you all in advance,
Jake
Jake Lake
Undergraduate Student at LCSC Lewiston, ID
Hello Jake,
We'll I'm a Java programmer too, not thinking of entering the challenge though. Had a quick look at the SDK for Android and it does'nt seem like pure java, more like a hybrid of C and Java does'nt it?
Since I have'nt had a thorough look at it, I'd like to ask you a few questions regarding the freedom to program on the platform.
Since it does'nt use the "normal" JVM but googles Davlik where theres no byte code but script code, does it allow better interaction with the hardware, and is it faster? Also can you implement equallizers and other effects in a media based application, which of course was not possible on J2ME. I was thinking on a All-round mediaplayer for Android, something like Rockbox which maybe found at www.rockbox.org which is a linux based program used on iPods etc.. but has been ported to Linux based EZX phones.
Regards,
Akshay
hello all and congrats on the new forum
the android in its current state is quite a poor business phone compared to winmo6.1 for a few reasons. can you all chip in in identifying the areas of weakness just to help out developers who want to do something about it
ill start by mentioning the obvious things to me
1. no exchange mail support with search server and html mail(maybe a roadsync port is needed)
2. no mention of vpn support
3. the join domain feature of wm6.1 was kinda useful to some
4. the only platform that can access our eap-tls network in wm5/6.
5. not sure its a big thing, but maybe a basic firewall is needed.
6. an option less integration with gmail (not good for corporations who have security concerns)
7. reader/editor for office 2k7 documents
8. remote desktop (windows, osX, linux)
9. maybe bundling all the buisness features as a single software pack (that does not need to be included with all sold phones if not many people are intrested) this will simplify development and updates.
10. out of box wirless 3g/edge modem or something similar to WiFiRouter.
that's what i can think of for now. feel free to repost this in a more visible android forum
well then don't get it
whats with the hostility. I'm just trying to make android a more attractive platform by highlighting its business shortcomings.
if we can get developers interested in developing these kind of apps early in its life to make it more corporate friendly it would be great.
taking care of business and core features are far more important than cool 'n' pointless apps that the iphone seems to be handling pretty well.
more stuff:
8. remote desktop (windows, osX, linux)
9. maybe bundling all the business features as a single software pack (that does not need to be included with all sold phones if not many people are interested) this will simplify development and updates.
10. out of box wireless 3g/edge modem or something similar to WiFiRouter.
since it's linux I have no doubt that most of your worries will be addressed. I know Linux has a remote desktop app but the question is will the android run non-java apps? Will it have GCC and some libs? Can we download GCC and some libs to our microSDHC cards? Will SSH work? Will the android GUI have X11-like network support? I am not much of a programmer but if the android has gcc and libs I will be doing some compiling of linux apps.
dagentooboy said:
since it's linux I have no doubt that most of your worries will be addressed. I know Linux has a remote desktop app but the question is will the android run non-java apps? Will it have GCC and some libs? Can we download GCC and some libs to our microSDHC cards? Will SSH work? Will the android GUI have X11-like network support? I am not much of a programmer but if the android has gcc and libs I will be doing some compiling of linux apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Im about 95% certain that all apps run inside android's java environment. Therefore any existing opensource application would have to be ported over to the specifications of android's java language.
Android as an operating system is just a linux executable binary. Think of it like X server. Android is just a GUI, but as of now everything that runs in that GUI has to be specifically written for android.
It may be possible to run seperate tty sessions... and that could allow you to run some sort of server in the background behind android that you could access from inside of android via a web browser (http://127.0.0.1 aka localhost style)
mburris said:
Im about 95% certain that all apps run inside android's java environment. Therefore any existing opensource application would have to be ported over to the specifications of android's java language.
Android as an operating system is just a linux executable binary. Think of it like X server. Android is just a GUI, but as of now everything that runs in that GUI has to be specifically written for android.
It may be possible to run seperate tty sessions... and that could allow you to run some sort of server in the background behind android that you could access from inside of android via a web browser (http://127.0.0.1 aka localhost style)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yeah... that's what I thought. I was hoping that wasn't the case.... I can dream right? Maybe it will be like the Zaurus all over again and we can write an X11 environment for it.
Nr. 1, the Exchange feature was mentioned at the launch, and the official answer was "we expect developers to provide applications for that". I think that also applies to the VPN part; since it's that open and that linux-ish, there will probably be lots of VPN/VNC/RDP/SSH clients available.
3 and 4, I don't even know what they are. Stuck in a Windows-based environment, with closed specs ? tough luck. That's vendor lock-in, you know.
5 - a firewall ? what for ? Your device won't be permanently connected, and you probably won't have lots of apps listening on your phone. Anyway, a filtering module will probably appear pretty soon. I'd be more worried about installed apps making hidden outgoing connections (apps calling home, or malicious apps), therefore a good app to have would be something similar to LittleSnitch.
6 - Google has service offerings for businesses, so you either choose to use their services, or you don't. If you don't like it, you shouldn't use this phone I guess
7 - the feature will appear for sure, at least the viewer part. Not hoping of a OpenOffice port for Android, though.
This phone actually doesn't look like it was built for business use, though; just take a look at the apps who won the contest, all of them are focused on fun, socializing, location-awareness and stuff that's useful to people, not business users.
Hmm, to follow up on the Office part:
http://www.informationweek.com/news/personal_tech/smartphones/showArticle.jhtml?articleID=210604042
"We expect it to be more for the consumer, not necessarily for enterprises," says Cole Brodman, chief technology and innovation officer at T-Mobile USA.
The 4.6-by-2.1-by-0.6-inch handset, which will go on sale in the United States on Oct. 22, will let users view Word and Excel documents as well as PDFs.
a few points:
a*you didnt coment on 8-10
b*the exchange feature needs licencing from mirosoft. i doubt the development comunity can do that. unless some genius cracks the airsync protocol
c*if you are on gprs/edge/3g then the phone is Always connected to the network. that why we have things like pushmail.
d*eap-tls is the most secure type of wirless access. and it uses certificates on both the server and client. the client normally needs to be part of the domain to be able to accept the certificate
e*almost all corporations are locked down to windows. its very imortant that buisness phones integrates very well with them if it were to be considered a buisness phones
f*dont you agree that having a buisness friendly is important for the sucess of any phone platform?
g* do you think that the lack of stylus or (resistive lcd) will hinder its ability to do remote desktop? the track ball thingy enough?
Most of the above points (1, 2, 3, 4, 7, 9) will most likely be addressed by developers and sysadmins in good time. In the case of Exchange, even if the platform is opensource, it doesn't mean that a 3rd party company can't license the technology to provide a solution. It might not be pretty (at first), but I wouldn't say it's impossible.
5. It depends on what specific vulnerabilities you're concerned about, whether on the app/run level or somewhere in the core Android stack. In general I doubt there's any issue that doesn't already exist on other mobile OSes, and given their respective solutions, the same is possible here. But if you have a specific concern in mind it would help to point it out.
6, 9. Google is certainly pushing its suite of apps and for good reason (because a lot of consumers use them), but given the open nature of the platform nothing is cemented in place. So while the G1 comes setup for use with gmail/gcal/maps/etc, there's nothing that says a sysadmin can't strip and replace. Moreover, the G1 isn't being pushed as an enterprise device in the first place; there's every possibility that carriers could release other handset models later, preloaded with more business-centric software packages (and less Google apps), and are simply holding off during Android's initial launch. If you think about it, Android has a much better chance of having a strong launch on the consumer front than on the enterprise front. Take care of the former first, then the latter has a better chance of long-term success.
8, g. Same as above, but Google is also pushing the cloud which could lessen the need for VNC/RDP/etc. Sysadmins will have their doubts about security in Google's cloud, but there's nothing that says they can't first observe the model and then later implement their own solution.
10. Not as much of an issue with the software as it is with the carrier. T-mobile isn't just launching Android, it's also launching its 3G network. Providing tethering out-of-the-box could seriously cripple the network in its infancy, and that's the last thing the US 3G market needs. Face it, we need good competition to force carriers to pick up the pace, and in time we could see some competing tethering plans between AT&T, T-mobile, et al.
Some thoughts in general:
Businesses may currently be invested in Windows Mobile for their mobile solutions, but the point isn't to take Android and simply turn it into WinMo -- that would be a wasted opportunity. WinMo users are effectively tied to their PC in one way or another (sync, RDP, svn, tether, etc). Android has the chance to push the cloud (among other innovative models), so that users are no longer dependent on existing workflows. The handset would become just a terminal for accessing the cloud, and transition between terminals would be completely transparent (Android on a phone? How about a netbook?). Not that I expect Android to overtake WinMo (or BES et al), but it gives companies more solutions that better fit their individual needs, and helps MS, RIM, etc start evolving the existing systems that are frankly getting dated.
thanks that was quite insightful
i would like to point out that a big portion (probably the biggest) of the android users only bought the G1 phone because of its great value. think about it the unlocked $399 G1 has more features than the $700 touch diamond. most of these people couldn't care less about what google have in mind for the platform. all they want is for their phone to do certain tasks (like exchange email) a lot of the other google-pushed tasks will probably be unused
I think for you personally, the #1 most important feature the G1 >>needs<< to have is spellcheck
fatso485 said:
...hostiliy...hilighting...buisness...intrested..
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
t mobile is a poor businesses Carrier
most of the big business i have seen use at&t
once tmobile 3g network become more mature they might get some more of the business market. but until they iron out the wrinkles in there new 3g network don't expect anything from tmobile. i don't think you want something like the iphone bill happening to all you business customers.
this is the first step tmobile has taken towards 3g in the US
i am sure there will be some stumbles.
I'm not 100% sure, but I think the Active Sync protocol needed for Exchange support is free to use from Microsoft. I see a LOT of it in many 3rd party email servers and applications. Many of which are in direct competition with Microsoft. So I think we can assume that Active Sync is very doable on the Android platform. Only needs a developer to do something about it.
Active Sync is my main concern too. Once that's in place, then some way to tether I'm getting me an Android phone quickly.
All the other concerns are too easy to fix either already or very soon, so the 2 problems I mentioned are the only show stoppers for me.
There currently isn't even a foolproof activesync drop-in replacement for Linux desktop distros. There's multisync and synCE, but they're both hard to install, hard to configure, and far from perfect in their implementation. As for getting it working under Android, like everything else, it's probably a wait-and-see situation. Most software for Linux isn't written in Java (which Android prefers/requires?) It'll be interesting to see if a java implementation of activesync software could happen.
does any1 know if the g1 has an on screen keyboard
haitiankid4lyf said:
does any1 know if the g1 has an on screen keyboard
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Currenly, no. The demo and preview vids show that you need to open the hardware keyboard in order to type (except for the phone dialer). But I'm sure SIPs will show up pretty quickly.
fhsieh said:
Currenly, no. The demo and preview vids show that you need to open the hardware keyboard in order to type (except for the phone dialer). But I'm sure SIPs will show up pretty quickly.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I hope they change that. When I had the Fuze I never liked pulling out the keyboard unless I have to type something long, an email or a long text or whatever. For normal web browsing, entering 1 URL, it's not worth it to slide it open, type and close it again.
my biggest concern is an appointment calender. im so reliant on my appointment calander ion my Kaiser... i wouldnt know what to do without it. Also, a way to sync files would be great. maybe the phone will be integrated with Google Docs? That would be SUPERB! I take notes in my college classes using Office Mobile, but if Android syncs with Google Docs... good lawd.. goodbye to WinMo!
bigdookie said:
my biggest concern is an appointment calender. im so reliant on my appointment calander ion my Kaiser... i wouldnt know what to do without it. Also, a way to sync files would be great. maybe the phone will be integrated with Google Docs? That would be SUPERB! I take notes in my college classes using Office Mobile, but if Android syncs with Google Docs... good lawd.. goodbye to WinMo!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Here's a video showing how well it syncs everything.
Say goodbye, WinMo
I am wondering if there is any type of library or environment where I could run a program written exclusively for WinMo 6. I can't post the app here due to copyright issues, but is this possible?
It seems you need something similar to wine for linux, i'm just thinking why do that with all the android apps we have
I can think of lots of programs that are not available for the android. I don't think the android has a large enough base for many outfits to utilize the wonderful potential of the android. For now the vast number of apps to me are cute little things operating in a insular little bubble.
Hope things change but for now I keep my HTC Wmo phone around
Regards, PK
ezangrando said:
It seems you need something similar to wine for linux, i'm just thinking why do that with all the android apps we have
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oziexplorer, there's nothing so powerful for off road navigation in android.
No. You cannot.
Android = Dalvik/Java
Winmobile = C/C++ and/or DotNet
Pretty much all of the significant apps have been made from scratch for android. If you want a specific app, the best way to go about it is to bug the developer of that app. It is a good guess that they may be already working on a version for android and/or thinking about it. Your request might be the only thing they need.
Hello Friends,
I have a question for all of the mobile developers. You might think I'm Joking. But its Serious. Is there any way to run android apps(2.1-2.3) in HTC HD2(Leo) which is running Windows Mobile? Many People Say 'NO'. But emulation of any OS is possible. We all thought that we can run PS2 games only on Sony Playstation 2 but we were proved wrong by PCSX2 by launching first PS2 Emulator. So I want to know is there any emulator by which I can run android apps on my HTC HD2? Its difficult but I think XDA Developers can make this type of emulators. It will also help thousands of people. I am an IT Professional and a software developer(Windows) but i don't know about developing apps for mobile. Otherwise would have made/wrote android apps in WM language/scripts. Some News also came that there are certain Converters which can convert Android Apps into J2ME or WM apps. I need a solution to this problem.
Regards,
Arun
Themegastar1 CEO
I believe there was originally an Android emulator running on WM, but it was slooooooooow!!! There's a whole slew of reasons as to why an Android emulator won't run well on WM, memory being the obvious main one. That's why Android ports were developed to run off the SD card, first dumping Windows from the memory and then running Linux.
Depending on your development experience, you may want to look into programming for Android anyway, if that's where your interest lies. If you've done anything like C# (or other .Net based language like VB.Net) then it's not that big a leap. If you've already done Java development then it's really not a problem - you just need to learn the Android SDK.
If you are intersted, have a look at the following tutorial...
http://www.vogella.de/articles/Android/article.html
It's a great starting point for Android development. It walks you through setting up the dev environment and then a few simple apps to get you going. Any OO experience you have will definitely help. (It may actually prove difficult without it - I can't say for sure.)
Hope this helps
themegastar1 said:
Hello Friends,
I have a question for all of the mobile developers. You might think I'm Joking. But its Serious. Is there any way to run android apps(2.1-2.3) in HTC HD2(Leo) which is running Windows Mobile? Many People Say 'NO'. But emulation of any OS is possible. We all thought that we can run PS2 games only on Sony Playstation 2 but we were proved wrong by PCSX2 by launching first PS2 Emulator. So I want to know is there any emulator by which I can run android apps on my HTC HD2? Its difficult but I think XDA Developers can make this type of emulators. It will also help thousands of people. I am an IT Professional and a software developer(Windows) but i don't know about developing apps for mobile. Otherwise would have made/wrote android apps in WM language/scripts. Some News also came that there are certain Converters which can convert Android Apps into J2ME or WM apps. I need a solution to this problem.
Regards,
Arun
Themegastar1 CEO
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I just did a search on your question. And from all the sites i've seen they all come up with the same answer: "no"
The two systems are too far apart from each other to be able to 'port' or emulate it apparently.
At least, this is what i found. Maybe some others might have more luck.
Problem still Not Resolved.
I read both of Your Comments, but still problem is not resolved. johncmolyneux you have told me that there is an emulator(Slow ones), can u tell me the name of that emulator? And I don't want to install android. I have given thanks to you both, but still My problem is not resolved. I need a way to run android apps on wm 6.5.
themegastar1 said:
I read both of Your Comments, but still problem is not resolved. johncmolyneux you have told me that there is an emulator(Slow ones), can u tell me the name of that emulator? And I don't want to install android. I have given thanks to you both, but still My problem is not resolved. I need a way to run android apps on wm 6.5.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It was about 8-9 months ago so no, I'm afraid don't know the name, but it was on xda so you can search the forum for it.
Let me put it clearly though. The emulator was so slow that it was immediately dropped and no-one ever used it. It's basically Windows, running a Linux emulator, running Android. It was terrible and unusable.
Why is it imperative that you run Android apps on WM? If you explain then maybe we can understand more and hopefully offer more constructive help.
Why I want to run Android Apps on WM.
The Reason for this is- I need Google Goggles for my HD2 and some other apps too. But Windows Mobile Technology is Better, Easy to Use and Expensive. And HTC offers HTC Sense along with HD2 which makes it more easy to use and attractive too. These all things are not possible by using Android. But Android has a big App Marketplace. This is the reason why I want to run android apps in WM.
Okay, I'll make it very clear then. You will not get this. The only solutions available are to find a version of google goggles on WM (not likely), or to run Android on your phone.
You can run it from the SD card, but it does mean a restart every time you want to switch from WM to Android and then back again.
Also, there are many Android builds available that include HTC Sense. There's some very nice Desire HD builds out there.
Sorry to give bad news, but you are not going to get what you're asking for.
OK! Necessity leads to invention!
Ya, but still, IF I make something then the problem will be resolved. I'm thinking to make Android Emulator in this Summer(May-June 2011). If I made it, then it will be good for all WM users, so nobody will switch to Android to get all apps. Anyway, johncmolyneux thanks for your efforts. By the way, Which Phone you are using. And with which OS(WM/Android/Bada/Ubuntu/S40/S60/Symbian 3rd Edition or any other) you are using? Necessity leads to invention!
Regards
Arun Wadhwa
Themegastar1 Owner
Please give me THANKS!!!!!
Well good luck with that mate - I think you'll need it
I'm using a Nexus One Gingerbread ROM at the minute. It's fast and stable - everything works just like a native Android device!
You do realize that you can boot into Android from Windows mobile on your hd2. That way you have winmo still on your phone, and when you need to use Android, you can use haret.exe to boot into an Android build running from the SD card. You have to restart the phone to get back into Windows mobile, but that only takes a minute or 2. And it only takes a minute to boot into Android. This way you can run both OS's on your hd2.
Sent from my HTC HD2 using XDA App
themegastar1 said:
Ya, but still, IF I make something then the problem will be resolved. I'm thinking to make Android Emulator in this Summer(May-June 2011). If I made it, then it will be good for all WM users, so nobody will switch to Android to get all apps.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Excelent example of high achievment goal.
So what you need?
Remapping all Android API to WM API with necessary additional functionality, so running whole Android emulator will be not necessary. This will save memory and gain some speed.
Similar to already known solutions on Linux platform which can run Windows applications on several platforms like winehq.org.
How much effort will be necessary?
Depends on which applications area that has to be covered.
Depends on knowledges about both operating systems.
Depends on accessibility to source code of the system and the applications which supposed to run with this framework.
Is summer vacations enough?
Future will reveal, but if you really are genius, please turn to good side
So this project will be definitely something which people will pay for, those who has WM favorites programs and are not willing to change the whole system to run some new.
Anyway aplications will be maybe running, but most of them will miss the stability and advantages of the Android operating system.
pedroxxx said:
Excelent example of high achievment goal.
So what you need?
Remapping all Android API to WM API with necessary additional functionality, so running whole Android emulator will be not necessary. This will save memory and gain some speed.
Similar to already known solutions on Linux platform which can run Windows applications on several platforms like winehq.org.
How much effort will be necessary?
Depends on which applications area that has to be covered.
Depends on knowledges about both operating systems.
Depends on accessibility to source code of the system and the applications which supposed to run with this framework.
Is summer vacations enough?
Future will reveal, but if you really are genius, please turn to good side
So this project will be definitely something which people will pay for, those who has WM favorites programs and are not willing to change the whole system to run some new.
Anyway aplications will be maybe running, but most of them will miss the stability and advantages of the Android operating system.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think I got some of the Ideas, I have to Create a platform build on Windows Mobile with the help of WM API, it will require Android SDK too. If I will create an app that has the compatibility of Android, I could name it as Emulator. Means just another platform running on a OS.
i would donate for this...
work hard guys..gudluck!