Database Users

Could anyone offer a progress report?

Hi, this is my first post on this forum, so feel free to delete it if I obey any rules, which I believe I don't.
I'm absolutely new to the PDA thing, I never had one, I never held one, and according to that, I never used one.
I think about buying one, but I still have too many unasked questions no one yet answered.
I definately don't want to use Windows on this one. So if there is a, let's say, chance higher than 50% that I won't be able to get Linux working on it, I simply won't buy it.
What I searched for and what I still need is an elaborated progress report, of how stable, fast and reasonable a HTC Universal can be used along with Linux. I'm so newbie that I don't even know if it will be able to do phone calls with Linux installed...
My provider is T-Mobile germany, and I could get one (called "MDA Pro" or "MDA IV") for 133€ (about 1:1 dollar, correct me if I am wrong)
I would get the "MDA Vario" for about 1€, but I cannot figure out the real model name, here is a picture:
http://www.audioelektronik.com/images/MDAVario.jpg
But back to my question: Who can offer a progress report? It would be perfect if the author would be at the same provider as me, but it's not really important. I also accept any provider proposals, as well as PDA proposals. I just thought of the Universal because I like the feature list and keyboard, but it won't be a problem to use a touchscreen exclusively.
So how usable is the HTC Universal with Linux? What can I do and what can't I?
You don't have to answer me myself if my questions are, at least partially, covered by a website. If you have any beginner information about installing, using and developing Linux on and for PDAs, I would love to see them.
If anyone prefers to contact me via ICQ, he is welcome to, I listed my number.
My jabber ID is: [email protected]

Hi,
we are doing our best to get Linux working on MDA Pro
http://wiki.xda-developers.com/index.php?pagename=UniversalProgress

Splendid, fast reply and good link. I'm sorry I couldn't find it. Anyone who is capable of it; feel free to delete this thread.

futlib said:
Splendid, fast reply and good link. I'm sorry I couldn't find it. Anyone who is capable of it; feel free to delete this thread.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can watch the detailed progress or help in this Thread
http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=35972&start=800

Hm, I would like to get in touch with development, but I cannot find a detailed introduction focused at newcommers in the development forum.
I never used assembler on a PPC, and though I wanted, I never wrote a Linux kernel module.
This is off-topic in this forum, but do you have a link?
Also great would be an universal emulator to try out ROMs and work on them a little. Is anything available/in progress/planned?

futlib said:
Hm, I would like to get in touch with development, but I cannot find a detailed introduction focused at newcommers in the development forum.
I never used assembler on a PPC, and though I wanted, I never wrote a Linux kernel module.
This is off-topic in this forum, but do you have a link?
Also great would be an universal emulator to try out ROMs and work on them a little. Is anything available/in progress/planned?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
First of all, you should go around the corner, find the next T-Mobile shop and by your MDA Pro device :`)
After that, you can follow the instructions installing Linux on a SD Card from the wiki page. The first link, i gave you.
After that, you can ask more questions in the "Linux on Universal" Thread :`)
Maybe if you are familar with Linux, you can help building a rootfs image.

futlib said:
I never used assembler on a PPC, and though I wanted, I never wrote a Linux kernel module.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You don't need to. The main problems are in the hardware
area, wince driver operation, nice wince GUI installer,
nice windows GUI installer, fixing bugs in Qt programs.
Also great would be an universal emulator to try out ROMs and work on them a little.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
We are testing everything on the real hardware.
Creating a device "emulator" is even more complicated
than fully porting Linux.

Okay, I think I'll really buy one.
I added you to ICQ EyeOfTheStorm, since I have some more questions and really don't want to flood the forum. Just greet me if you online, and if it doesn't bother
<edit>
Programming GUI programs is indeed my task at work atm, I think I could be of help in that part. I mainly use C and C++ and python. But I'll first need to buy my PDA, so...
</edit>

futlib said:
Okay, I think I'll really buy one.
I added you to ICQ EyeOfTheStorm, since I have some more questions and really don't want to flood the forum. Just greet me if you online, and if it doesn't bother
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ups, my ICQ is depricated. Will never go online. So, if you have aditional Questions, ask in the Linux on Universal Forum.

Is there an IRC channel?
(this thread is so much of a chat ;D)

So, I'm only one step away from buying my device.
Now I only have some last questions I need answered before I buy it:
The root filesystem HAS to be on SD/MMC Cards <= 1024MB.
How do you guys exchange music etc.? Can I really not install the root filesystem on the internal memory of that device? Would 128 MB be enough?
I'm warned that my device could be damaged. If so, would the providers warranty apply? Or does it expire if I change the operating system?
The mini-howto tells me to do a backup, but I cannot find an explanation of how to do this.
I think it should just be a dd of the device when mounted on my workstation, but I prefer to have an explanation anyway.
Would I be able to reinstall this windows CE whatever thing whenever I want if I do a backup?

futlib said:
So, I'm only one step away from buying my device.
Now I only have some last questions I need answered before I buy it:
The root filesystem HAS to be on SD/MMC Cards <= 1024MB.
How do you guys exchange music etc.? Can I really not install the root filesystem on the internal memory of that device? Would 128 MB be enough?
I'm warned that my device could be damaged. If so, would the providers warranty apply? Or does it expire if I change the operating system?
The mini-howto tells me to do a backup, but I cannot find an explanation of how to do this.
I think it should just be a dd of the device when mounted on my workstation, but I prefer to have an explanation anyway.
Would I be able to reinstall this windows CE whatever thing whenever I want if I do a backup?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
As far as I know, we still have the 1GB SD Card limit. Yes, you have to install the rootfs on the SD Card. 128 MB are enough for hosting the basic rootfs image.

Well, I just bought this device. I will get it on the 20. of juni. (It's my birthday, and this is no coincidence ;D)
There is only one thing left of this list I really need to know:
Can I reinstall this windows CE thing?
I will perhaps hit a situation were I need something fully functionaning ASAP, so I'd love to know.
But I allready bought it, this is just important for my decision to install Linux on it. If I can somehow backup or reinstall this windows CE thing, I'll definately follow the guide and help development as good as possible for me.

I got my device, followed the guide, installed opie and gpe on it (first tried opie, didn't like the look and then switched to gpe. Found out that GPE cannot manage the universals monitor-spin and switched back to opie.) and now I have got everything up and running.
Couldn't find anything non-working yet too, though I still need to figure out how to make (at least the keyboard layout) german.
Now I also know that Opie/GPE can coexist with WinCE without problems, which makes me very happy.
But there is one thing that still bothers me:
I cannot go online via GPRS or make/accept phone calls when Linux is booted.
Is this possible at all? Neither Opie nor GPE do seem to have any software for doing a phone call.
Is there a guide on how to set up telephony and GPRS internet?
<edit>
Found some funky new resources:
http://handhelds.org/moin/moin.cgi/Universal
Is the page I have been searching for a while and
#htc-linux (@freenode)
is the channel I have been searching for a while.
The guys just told me that it is not (yet) possible to do phone calls, but they are working on it. I will try to compile and make the winCE installer working now.
</edit>

Useful Information for people new to XDA and Windows Mobiles

My first post.
First of all to all the seniors, gr8 forum u guys got here.
Second, it's got so much information I cant make head or tail of anything
I am going to be purchasing a HTC P3400i WM 6.0 version soon, most probably in the next week or so.
This is the first time am going to be using a WM device so I was trying to get a feel of things by reading through the posts here.
I have few questions,
1. What exactly is a ROM, why is it called so and will it void my warranty?
2. I understand it is possible to give the p3400i a "touchflow" look can i do it w/o using a "ROM".
3. When using a WM device what are the basic things that one should learn/understand/take care of??
4. Which posts should I go through and what order to understand the whole concept of WM devices, without actually experimenting with my own device.
5 Finally thanks in advance looking forward to your replies and guidance.
P.S: I sincerely hope my post is in the correct section, coz a lot of my questions are of the "General" category.

1. ROM is actually "Read Only files in your pda" ... Its actually the OS and its files running on your gadget........The default OS in p3400i or gene100 comes with lot of junk files and drivers and the RAM will not be sufficient to run all the new Programs....SO dvlpers are cooking faster ROMS than the default one by modifying these files and drivers..... also they make use of files from other faster devices.....YEs it will void your warranty... But normally all the software issues can be rectified.......
2.YEs u can give ur pda touch flo without using by softwares like.......M2D , SPB Mobile shell, Pointui......etc...etc.... But it will faster it will be better if its in a ROM....
3. There are many things.....one advice.....do a research before doing anything stupid on your device,...... Ask lot of questions and doubts...... dont get ur device bricked......
4.Read the Sticky Thread by Sumit before flashing........

Great answer go4thomman Here are my views :
1. A ROM actually is an image, much like images of CDs you create with burning software. It contains the Windows Mobile Operating system, Drivers to run your device as well as Manufacturer made programs to make the best use of device. All these things are packed into a single file, much like you do with zip files. Your phones contains 128 MB of memory for putting things on it. So to provide base functionality to the device, this ROM is written to that memory and that portion is made read only so that things like viruses (and humans ) don't mess around with the important files. The concept of ROM is there only to make this process simpler, as you don't have a CDROM drive in your mobile to pop a cd and install OS into it. Also a phone is expected to come in ready to use condition, not like a computer. So a ROM provides all the software related functionality to your phone. After that, rest of the remaining memory becomes your phone memory.
Device Manufacturers don't allow making custom roms and flashing them to phones as it makes it difficult for them to provide support. So they lock the device using their digital certificates as protection. This locking is done in the special part of the phone called the SPL (Second Program Loader) and the lock is called CID (Carrier IDentifier). SO to unlock the phone, you need to install a SPL that is CID unlocked but this is against the warranty policy of HTC or any other manufacturer for that matter. Plus the process is dangerous and if not done properly can make your device non functional, non booting also called a "Brick" coz the only thing you can then do with it is using it like the one
Fortunately, we have some really good people here who have developed safe unlocking methods as well as unbricking solutions for certain situations (but not all). Two such people that have worked for GENE SPL are Olipro (old gene) and Orefkov (new gene).
For more info regarding this and to know how to do it, ready the sticky post by me.
2. Touchflo refers to two things, Finger scrolling in applications and the Manilla 2D interface. Finger scrolling is something that you will find in recent versions of Windows Mobile OS. So if you upgrade to newer ROMs you will get it. There is also a 3rd party driver available called FTouchFLO but the older versions have problems and newer are not free.
The Manilla 2D interface, which HTC calls TouchFLO in its specs but manilla inside the ROM, is a Today plug in that allows accessing most of the phone functions without going through the usual Windows Mobile OS menus. This plugin is great, looks cool and works nicely. But its disk and ram footprints are quiet large. so HTC only uses it with devices which have 256 MB flash memory and 128 MB of RAM. It is possible to use this plugin on GENE but using it from phone memory is not recommended as it is way too slow that way. When it is cooked into the ROM, it takes half the space as ROM files are compressed and runs smoother. Cons of this plugin are that it acquires all of the screen space so you cant use any other plugin with it, it doesn't even allows to enable any other plugin, It hogs considerable amount of RAM, Decreases the battery backup by 5%, and is not easily customizable.
3. There is not much special you have to do to take care of this baby, its quiet sturdy. But do keep these things in mind:
a. Discharge the battery fully atleast once a week.
b. Use a good quality screen protector with the screen, never ever do cold lamination on the screen, it damages it. Also replace the protector every 6-8 months or so.
c. Avoid hard tapping on the screen, its quiet sensitive and if its not responding, its probably because software is hanging. Dont hit your hardware for that
d. Keep it away from liquids, get cold lamination on the rest of the body to avoid scratches.
e. Keep the volume at a point less than full, speaker sounds good that way.
f. Keep brightness and power settings to the minimum that you prefer, to save battery.
4. This is a forum not a book so i cannot recommend you any particular order, but do read things related to flashing and cooking as well as the threads related to ROMs in the gene section. Wiki is also a good place to learn things, as well as do keep an eye on General Discussions and Development and Hacking section for getting important information and software upgrades.
Always Search before you start a thread or be ready for flaming, respect other members, never demand things as you are not paying for anything and nobody owes you anything, And read thoroughly and between the lines before attempting anything with your phone.
Good luck!

One more thing, rename this thread to "Useful Information for people new to XDA and Windows Mobiles". That way, i guess i wont have to type it all again. You can rename you threads by double cliking besides the title of the thread in the list of threads.

Thanks a lot guys.

herald, wing, p4351?

hi, i want to buy a htc p4351 and i've been reading the tutorials, faqs, and stuff here, and it looks a great phone with great custom rooms, kitchens and stuff and i will probably but it...
but i dont get the differences between htc herald, t-mobile wing, htc p4351 and htc p4350, are their roms compatible? programs are also compatible?
i also want to know if you can permanently brick it or if you make a original rom backup it is impossible to brick it permanently. also the programs developed for it are in what language? java, c++, .net, all of them?
tthaks for the help

They are all the same device, just from different regions and different keyboard layouts. The insides are the same, thus the ROMs are compatable. The programs are also cross compatable...pretty much all Windows Mobile programs are.
You CAN permanently brick your Wing...tho it is rather hard. Just follow the instructions COMPLETLY. READ EVERYTHING before you start and you should be fine.
WinMo programs are usually coded in .net...but there are Java emulators, they can be written in C..its just the developers preference. Windows Mobile basically supports all the programming languages that standard desktop Windows does. You dont have to compile the programs or whatever though if that is why you ask...most come as a .cab file, which is a self extracting installer.
Hope that helps!

oh ok thaks alot i'm asking about the programming language beacuse i want to know the programing languages avaliable, or if u had to use java, .net or some obscure windows mobile specific programming language, maybe someday make some program for it lol
and about bricking: so it has the bootloader and the os, and u can upgrade then alone, no need to write to the bootloader if u just want to change the os? so even if i make a complete backup with the right memory card and stuff, if i write invalid data to the bootloader all hope is gone? the phone is dead and the only hope is opening it and writing directly into the rom?(if this is possible)
ah also is the architecture open? they provide iformation about the phone's assembly, memory map, maybe some c compiler?
again thaks a lot

bug666 said:
oh ok thaks alot i'm asking about the programming language beacuse i want to know the programing languages avaliable, or if u had to use java, .net or some obscure windows mobile specific programming language, maybe someday make some program for it lol
and about bricking: so it has the bootloader and the os, and u can upgrade then alone, no need to write to the bootloader if u just want to change the os? so even if i make a complete backup with the right memory card and stuff, if i write invalid data to the bootloader all hope is gone? the phone is dead and the only hope is opening it and writing directly into the rom?(if this is possible)
ah also is the architecture open? they provide iformation about the phone's assembly, memory map, maybe some c compiler?
again thaks a lot
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You can use C++ or C#, or the Java mobile suff, I believe.
Bootloader - This stays the same, and is seperate from the OS, but HardSPLing tweaks the bootloader, etc. And you are NOT writing crap to the bootloader, there's no reason.
ROM's - You can create your own ROM's and tweak the operating system however you like, by using a kitchen, like Ivan's SuperJustKitchen. You can mess around with lotts there.
Flashing Instructions - http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=581996
Some Termonoligy - http://thewingster.com/Documents/More info on ROM's.pdf

thanks once again, but if something go wrong while writing to the bootloader, the battery disconnects or whatever happens will the phone be forever dead or there is still hope?
about tweaking the OS, and what if i want to make my own OS, is this possible? i mean, is the phone architecture open? there is information about its assembly, memory map and very low level stuff?
thanks once again for your time

bug666 said:
thanks once again, but if something go wrong while writing to the bootloader, the battery disconnects or whatever happens will the phone be forever dead or there is still hope?
about tweaking the OS, and what if i want to make my own OS, is this possible? i mean, is the phone architecture open? there is information about its assembly, memory map and very low level stuff?
thanks once again for your time
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well just don't let anything go bad while HardSPLing!!! HardSPL is the ONLY thing you will be doing to the bootloader. Just be careful when doing it, and everything will go fine. The last resort option from recovering from a brick is "Goldcard", but you shouldn't need to do that.
And idk, you can do lots with Windows phones. People have ported over Android to the Wing! So that proves that lots of stuff is possible. I haven't played around with that stuff though.

As far as the architecture of the phone is considered, it is open...if you can find the information for the various components. The CPU is an Texas Instruments OMAP850, the same as the Wizard and Shadow/Juno use. As far as anything else goes you will be hard pressed to find any real reliable information for things such as the RAM or flash and such. You could possibly ask the boys over at the Wing Linux project if they would make their information available to you because I believe that it is available under the GPL.
Anywho, just as ace said, Android and good old regular Linux are both bootable on the Wing, so the support is there, albeit limited.

oh so even if it is not open there is already reverse engineering enoght to make a new os, so great
thanks

the htc wing(purple) is the phone that tmobile has....the htc p4351(what i have is the unlocked version(black)

Honestly, I wouldn't really put any money into buying a Wing/Herald; my suggestion would be to go for the HD2..

[Q] OK, So I want to build my own Android ROMs

I know how to do the WM stuff - and have some old kitchens. I used to be fairly involved in doing my own back in the Kaiser days, but never did publish them (there were always questions about whether it was REALLY kosher to do so)
Well, Android is Open Source (mostly) and so I'd like to get involved with it for the HD2. I'll publish here and maintain as well - if I come up with something useful.
Does anyone have a framework to start with on getting started? Is it best done from Windows (Win7 here) or do I need to build up a Linux box for this?
If it's already here (I looked around) please point me to it... or any online resource for that matter.
Mostly interested in cooking up NAND stuff....
(I build and write software - including kernel code in the FreeBSD realm, so I'm familiar with the "hows" - just need the correct pointers to the tools and bits I need along with a primer; I can take it from there.)
Thanks in advance!

I'm interested in the same kind of info, but it seems it's a secret kept somewhat close to the chest, and although there are tutorials aplenty for the end user, there is a clear lack of tuturials on how to make your own ROMs (be it WinMo, or Android). Either "chefs" don't want any more clutter and garbage around, or they don't think there is interest on such info...
Anyway, here is an article to get you started (little meat in the info, but dig around the wiki):
http://www.htc-linux.org/wiki/index.php?title=QuickDeveloperStartGuide

u Guy's even have take look to chef corner in this site

How to use a certain Linux App in OnePlus 8 Pro Oxygen OS (rooted w magisk | edexpose

I've looked around on stack overflow and other places trying to find answers. I have software I want to install on my phone so I can more easily chat, send files, links, etc. on LANs that I work within throughout my day. This program works well for me: https://www.beebeep.net/download
I can use this on my windows and linux boxes. I want to integrate my phones into this communications array.
I'm looking at the snapcraft or any of the other linux variants. I can't figure out how to run a linux app on droid.
I can ssh through the terminal and so on. I can perform other functions that one normally does in BASH though now that I think of it, I haven't tried crontab. Anyway, how could I get this BeeBeep script to work on my android? Can anyone help solve this problem?

I have not seen anything on this, but very interested in this Linux development...
I did see an XDA section for only Ubuntu Touch...

I don't know about direct onto android but apparently it can be done to Chromebooks and I know that android apps can be converted to work on Chromebooks too so perhaps it can be reversed?
https://www.androidcentral.com/how-install-linux-apps-your-chromebook
So basically if an app could be converted to work on a Chromebook could it then be further converted to work on Android?
Seems like a long shot but you never know.
I've seen Windows apps / games work on Android, I've had Wolfenstein, quake arena and doom 3 ports on my phone so I would assume that Linux being a much closer cousin to Android would be an easier chore.
What you need is a framework to do the work for you, not to emulate but to directly port..
Can't find much online but I think if you dig enough you may find something
Certainly interesting though, best of luck pal.

If I find something, I'll post in development. This is a backburner project, but clearly it's one I need to take on myself. Thanx for your responses.