Database Users

Time to move on perhaps?

I've had HTC/XDA's for the past 7 years, starting with the basic XDA through to the XDA2, XDA2s, XDA Exec and currently the XDA Hermes...but they just ain't that cool anymore - I used to enjoy using them, they were original and the OS was swish but now they're slow, cumbersome and just not that funky nor impressive - its a rickety old OS with nothing to get excited about.
Until Microsoft do something interesting with PocketPC I don't think I'll returning for a while, however I'd just like some opinions on the phones to which I'm considering a move to...
My likes...
- Touchscreen ideally (Nokia loses here)
- Navigation capabilities (either built in or addon)
- Good quality camera, quick to fireup/use (unlike PocketPC!!)
- Proper Keyboard (nice but not necessary)
- Ability to use POP3 email practically without hard work
Based on the majority of the above, I am considering these phones...
- Samsung F700 (beautiful looking, nice interface)
- Apple IPhone
- Nokia N95 8Gb
Have I missed anything worth considering, if so what are you recommendations?
Currently with Vodafone and have been offered the F700/N95 for free, 500 minutes, Stop the Clock (free after 3 minutes for an hour), 250 txt's for £30 p/m.
I am put off PocketPC so with the greatest of respect, don't bother replying if its an anti-anything-else style response.
Appreciate your views/opinions, particularly from anyone actually using/with experience of any of the above phones.

I had my hands on the N95 and its awesome. The iPhone is the iPhone, awesome os and navigation, but ultimately i see a bunch of chicks with them so no. Samsung looks promising but will probably be way too expensive straight off unless carrier subsidised. N95 wins, it has GPS, a snappy os, great music player, and tons of software available. Good luck in your choice!

Thanks for your reply mate, the N95 does look appealing but what about the keyboard? Is it genuinely usable on a day-to-day basis? Heard comments that its too small?
Cheers, Ash

I know the iPhone is the rage for alot of folks........but even so...Apple will try to make it grow and advance without end.
Example is the release of the developer package.........I think the iPhone, atleast with the coming introduction of then next version, would be my next choice...........for the resale if nothing else.
My little Hermes has held it's value pretty well too!
Good Luck and stay in touch.

chipsxj said:
I know the iPhone is the rage for alot of folks........but even so...Apple will try to make it grow and advance without end.
Example is the release of the developer package.........I think the iPhone, atleast with the coming introduction of then next version, would be my next choice...........for the resale if nothing else.
My little Hermes has held it's value pretty well too!
Good Luck and stay in touch.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I agree with your sentiments, the IPhone 2 I believe it worth waiting for, I don't think I'd invest my pennies in the current release, its just not heavily featured enough, although the firmware upgrades are coming out thick and fast!! Its now got a GPS like technology!! Very impressive!
...but I'm not interested in making my Hermes act like something far superior, I'm just bored of its tired, slow and clunky interface - need something refreshing that allows me to enjoy using my phone, and enabling me to use it properly without having to wait for it to wakeup from standby, wait for the camera to get its act together etc!
Thanks for your comments. Anyone any experience with the Samsung? It looks smart! Has good spec too!

ashleyhall said:
Its now got a GPS like technology!! Very impressive!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What do you consider a "GPS like technology" - the same thing GoogleMaps does?

to be honest,
You are looking for the
"Sony Ericsson p1i"
http://www.smarthome.com/96001.html
It meets all of your specifications, except it has a suretype keyboard. It has 2 letters to a key, instead of a normal keyboard, or a normal keypad with 3 letters to a key. It's actually the best keyboard to have once one gets used to it.
Key features:
Touch screen
WiFi
Smartphone capability
Not sure on GPS/location.
awesome 3.2 megapixel camera.
I think you'll like it.

vr24 said:
What do you consider a "GPS like technology" - the same thing GoogleMaps does?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Well, similar in the sense that it doesn't use a traditional GPS utilising Satellites, instead it uses GSM triangulation, still its an impressive addon for a firmware update. Lets face it, when did the last Hermes firmware update (from an official provider, not cooked ROMs) enhance our functionality to that extent!!
Sirgatory said:
to be honest,
You are looking for the
"Sony Ericsson p1i"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for the pointer, does look nice but I'm a little put off Sony's after seeing/playing for a while with the P900 and P910 - very large, clunky and easily broken phones with a rather unimpressive slow interface - have things improved since then?

not sure if that's the case any more but many sonyE owners complain about as poor charging connectors as htc had pre extMiniUsb
also suspct sonyE only support their own odd flashCard std.
hope the iphone2 got microSd

Rudegar said:
not sure if that's the case any more but many sonyE owners complain about as poor charging connectors as htc had pre extMiniUsb
also suspct sonyE only support their own odd flashCard std.
hope the iphone2 got microSd
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Just watched a video showing the SonyE's interface, looks just like the old P900, slow and not very jumpy to respond.
Think I'll keep looking, what other nice phones are out there right now?
Cheers, Ash

The only one out of your list I would consider is the iPhone.
Some people are sentimental about the devices they use, they deveop a love for it and whenever something clearly better comes out they make a whole lot of excuses defending their old device. While I've loved my Hermes very much, I'm not sentimental, I'm progressive. Within financial reason, I will go with whatever the current-day best device/platform is.
The iPhone has in no way been that, not so far. Unti l I can have EVERY little excellent WM app I use, or an equally good iealternative on the iPhone platform, the iPhone is a waste of money for me. Everything else of course is brilliant, but the No. 1 thing that turns me on phones is the abilty to have multilingual dictionaries on it, an audio recorder, an advanced metronome app (yes, musician here!), access to network mapped drives, a GOOD calendar app (iPhone's is not good enough for me, try Agenda One), ebooks and pocket bible, a scientific calendar (to some people that would be VERY useful), TCPMP (enough said), and ALL the tweaking to my heart's content.
The release of the SDK is what excites (and at the same time worries) me. I'm just wondering how Mr. "closed" and "controlling my devices" Steve Jobs is going to handle the freedom with iPhone that's about to be unleashed.
I'm also interested in what Microsoft is going to do for WM7 in reaction. Are they just going to bloat it up with vista-like "wow"-ness (thereby slowing it to a grinding halt) or are they going to actually make it a powerful platform and compete with the desktop-class iPhone platform. The browser situation STILL sucks after all these years.
And how about Google's android? Will there be a following for that, enough to bring out great apps? If so, AND if it can be employed on my Hermes, I'll stick it out to try that.
So what I love about WM6, is not actually the OS itself. I hate the OS. But all these wonderful developers have made my WM phone what it is, and outweighed its anoying slowness.
Also one single feature which would stop me from going to iPhone, is input. I LOVE TouchPal, try the free edition or professional trial, it's AMAZING. FAR superior to that horrible iPhone keyboard. And the great thing is, it's NOT complicated, only took me half-an-hour to learn. They've done some incredible innovation there. So, will Apple allow third-party developers to make their own keyboards for iPhone? +, will there be a way to sync to my outlook?
I'll wait and see...
Edit: oh yeah, there's also MicroSD. 12GB just got announced, and the SDHC spec can go up to 32GB. That's value being reinvested into my Hermes. There's all these little things that are BIG things in my daily phone experience, and they must all be ticked in the checklist before considering moving.

I know what you mean about moving on. My Wizard is barely living (no SIM card most of the time, still an OK PDA), and I really miss using a touchscreen phone now. I would have bought a Kaiser, but after seeing all of the issues it has, no way. I think the iPhone still looks good, even though Jobs wants to lock everything down...but then again, that didn't stop me here, why would it stop me now?

frenchglen said:
While I've loved my Hermes very much, I'm not sentimental, I'm progressive. Within financial reason, I will go with whatever the current-day best device/platform is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Very well put, I'm fully agreeing with you on that and I am pleased that the 'Anti-Anything-Other-Than-Hermes' police haven't yet bothered to respond.
The TouchPal system looks excellent but I simply can't imagine it running at the pace that it does via the video's I've watched on my own Hermes - The IPhone I'm tempted by but not until its next reincarnation, which judging by the speed at which Apple plough up new devices, I don't think I'll be waiting long.
Another phone I'm now considering is..
http://www.engadgetmobile.com/2007/...-crowd-preps-m4650-windows-mobile-touchphone/
...although at the moment I know very little about it.
I guess I'll keep looking!

Just to update you all - went into several stores to play with various new Mobile Phones, tried the Samsung F700 - VERY disappointed, tried the Nokia N95 - HORRIBLE piece of cheap tack. Finally, got informed of the new Vodafone 1615 (KAISER) - what a GREAT bit of kit, yes its another WM machine, the natural progression from the 1605 (Hermes) but its actually nice.
Doesn't seem any faster BUT it has lots more RAM, built in GPS (YAY no more Bluetooth GPS!) and a nice tilting screen!!
Got an amazing tariff agreed and expecting delivery of the new handset tomorrow!!!!
Will keep you updated on my progress with it!
Cheers, Ash

Just a quick comment on the N95, I've read (don't have a link to hand currently, sorry) that a lot of users are having problems with the onboard GPS. aparently the chip/antenna is situated on the back/bottom of the handset which, for obvious reasons, affects the ability to get a fix on your position...

HD Review very poor

I can't believe how wrong and uninformed this Australian review of the HTC HD.
http://www.theage.com.au/news/digit...ew-htc-touch-hd/2009/02/07/1233423551702.html
It is just weird, I can only explain it as just ignorant, but just astonishing seeming that it comes from a 'professional reviewer'.
Maybe the easiest way to describe it is just total BS:
TheAge - Newspaper Melbourne said:
Review: HTC Touch HD smart phone
Nick Ross
February 9, 2009
The HTC Touch HD
HTC TOUCH HD
Price $1499 or $62 per month
Rating 2.5/5
www.telstra.com.au
HTC specialises in smartphones based on the Windows Mobile system. This is designed around stylus-based navigation but HTC developed TouchFlo 3D - a finger-friendly way of prodding the main features. It was sluggish on HTC's Touch Diamond but speedy on the Touch 3G. HD rivals the latter but occasionally lags.
Straight away it hits problems. TouchFlo is helpful on small phones but HTC has simply added a larger screen and that's it. For instance, when you add a calendar entry, the top right 1cm of the screen has six different buttons while the rest of the screen is virtually empty. This occurrence is all too common.
HTC points out that the large (9.7cm) high-res screen is great for pictures, video and music. But zooming and flicking through pictures and albums isn't nearly as smooth as the iPhone. Videos look good but you're constantly expected to get them by following numerous links to BigPond-Foxtel downloads, which demand yet more money. GPS is included but you'll again have to pay to use it when WhereIs Navigator becomes available next month.
The onscreen keyboard rivals the iPhone's but the HD's Opera web browser doesn't zoom or pan nearly as well. Where it does pull away is with its superior 5-megapixel camera and superb battery life, which manages seven hours talk time. It only requires charging after three days compared with the iPhone's one-and-a-bit. We liked the inclusion of a standard headphone jack too.
So who should buy it? It's hugely expensive, locked to Telstra and costs even more to get the best from it. Typing is much faster with keyboard-equipped phones such as BlackBerrys and Palm's Treo Pro.
Pictures and web browsing are more fun on the iPhone.
If you're a rich executive who doesn't do much work with their phone but needs the potential of Windows Mobile, it's ideal.
If not, look elsewhere.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse

Dumbasses, almost sounds like they never even tried the phone, just looked at the spec sheet. The one area they praise (the camera) is clearly the worst part, but because it's 5 megapixel they assume it's better.

This guy's opinion should simply be ignored. He does'nt even know what to look for. He probably just used his phone only to listen to music and play game, and does not use as GPS software; does not open/create/edit office documents, and does not use the device much during the day (hence never experience the need to change battery in the middle of the day).
And yes, I think he probably did'nt really try out the phone. Else he would have discovered that the camera does not perform well indoor in poor light or the fact that it does not have flash.
And, he probably did not bring it outdoor and noticed how incredibly easy it is to read the screen under strong sunlight. If he had, he was probably unaware how strikingly good the display is, or may be he is too iPhone biased to want to mention it.
No mention of the fact that this has FM radio, something iPhone owners would love to have, give the choice.
To sum it up, this is an extremely shallow and biased "review" (if you even call that a review).

The Age is full of idiots. You know he doesn't know anything as soon as he called the camera "superior"

Yes, he can't possible have tried the camera, it completely sucks.
I think he's not that wrong with his points after all, if you are a "normal" phone user, you will find the touchflow 3D laggish sometimes, you will find the phone hard to use and so on.. it's because it's simply not a suitable device for those who want's what the iphone delivers. He doesn't mention all the things that are possible to do with the device that iphone lacks, just the things that arn't as easy and smooth. He's just a user that should buy an iphone instead. The ones who make these reviews has to look from all users perspective, not just hes own. That's what sucks with the review, just compare it with gsmarena, that's an objective reveiw in my opinion.
One thing that he mentions that actualla annoys me a great deal is the fact that in many menu-screens, all the information, buttons and inputs are crowded on the upper left part of the screen. (like when you choose ringtones for instance). Is there a workaround for this?

Look the world is full of idiots, and the iPhone was made for that crowd of idiots and morons.
The MS platform will always be superior in the business sense and more suited to the other type of crowd.
I showed this to one of my class mates and they didn't know how to use the phone, to only bring out his iPhone out, i realized then who i was speaking to.

Calm down, there isn't any objective test on this planet. See various games magazines, or other stuff test mags. The resumeé depends aways from the tester who tested the device if he is an iphine fan you have bad luck if he likes windows mobile more you may have better luck.
You can only collect as much tests of the same product as possible and then calculate the average mark from all tests. Then you might get a most objective remark as possible.
I read many tests before I bought the HD, because at the bottom line the average mark is quite good.

To a certain extent i think its true. The picture and video flickering is no where as smooth and as fast as the iphone. But it gets the job done just not as speedy as the iphone.

My iPhone experience

I am the proud owner of a HTC touch HD phone, and a very happy owner too. I got it just before Christmas, and it is currently running on Duttys rom, 2.6. All in all my best phone so far.
As many, I have always looked upon the iPhone as one of the absolute best phones ever made, in my opinion it more or less revolutionized how we look upon a phone’s capabilities. However, since I have never had an iPhone, I found it hard to argument for or against it. Therefore I have bought one (used), which will arrive by mail within the next few days. When I get it, I will use it for a month and keep posting here how it goes and how it performs compared to the touch HD. Why do I do this? Because I’m curious, and because I want to see what all the hype is about, and most of all, i hate the fact that everyone is *****ing about which product is the best, but only a few has actually had and used the two phones for a longer period of time.
So far I bought the phone (iPhone 3g), and I am waiting for it to arrive. I must say the wait is long I have downloaded iTunes, so all I’m waiting for right now, is the phone itself.
Besides the normal things you do with a phone (calling, sms), I daily use my touch HD for web browsing, email correspondence and video and music. All of which performs perfectly (thank you coreplayer ). So this is what I plan to use the iPhone for, since touch HD is a windows mobile phone, I rely upon activesync to take care of my outlook contacts and calendar notes, we’ll see how well iTunes does this.
I also like the fact that it is so easy to get what you want with windows mobile, mostly through you guys here at xda.
When the phone arrives I’ll post my first experiences.
Update: 15-4-2009
It'll arrive tomorrow. Thanks for all the replys
Update 17-4-2009
First impressions
So i’ve used the phone for all in all 5-6 hours so far, so I can only tell you about my first impressions. I had some problems getting my music from my pc to the phone, it turned out that you have to enable music synchronization in itunes, in order to get anything transferred to the phone. First thing I did was to transfer my music through explorer (drag and drop), more or less the exact same way as with touch hd, this isn’t allowed, so I had to go through itunes, convert all my music, find out how to get it from itunes to the phone, before I could listen to music. In all in all much more difficult than I had believed, but now I know how it works, so hopefully this won’t be an issue in the future. I can see the problem for those who has many more songs than I had on my laptop, it’s takes a long time to convert to the itunes format, so this would be a major drawback. Why can’t I just put my mp3’s directly on the phone?
This being said, I really like the flow on the phone, the framerate compared to touch hd, is better, giving a better feel. However, I’ve been a bit annoyed by the sensitivity of the screen; it probably takes some getting used to.
Finally, when I used the phone this morning in my way to work, I had some issues with the 3G connection. My touch hd has no problems what so ever when I am using to surf and check mails and so on, the iphone used 3G for 3 minutes, and then I found myself browsing using edge, which is in my opinion is not an option. This is something that will be an annoyance if it keeps up (I’m hoping it was a onetime only).
As for the browsing itself, iphone surpasses the touch hd. Opera is simply to slow compared to safari, but if I can’t get a proper connection, there really is no choice.
One thing that really impressed though was the app store. All though you have to put in your credit card information in order to create an account, it is really easy to browse through all the apps, find what you like and install it. And there really are many different and funny apps, which all in all lifts the overall user value.
I’ll return in next week with more views. Thanks for all the responses
04-05-2009
The first many days.
Hey, sorry for the delay. Been busy at work, but finally found some time to write some more. I have had and used the phone for quite some time by now, it performs as expected. All though I begin to see the small bugs, which most people forget to mention when recommending the iphone. I read somewhere that the iPhone simply “just works”. That is not entirely true, yes I have never had a smartphone that performs as well as the iPhone, it has the least amounts of crashes and so on. However, to say that it simply works, is wrong. When I browse the web, safari hangs on every load, so you have to wait for the entire page to load until you start navigating. Furthermore the video player used in safari has a tendency to hang a lot when you are viewing a longer video, and especially if wifi is turned on. But still, the browser is the best mobile browser so far. Opera hangs/stalls/dies a lot too, and of the two browsers, I prefer safari. There’s still a long way to go until web browsing on the mobile is perfect.
The phone itself has rebooted three times, one time in a game and the two other times it just stalled and went black. Odd… Again if I compare to touch hd, it is more or less the same. My touch hd also died a lot of times, and the one thing that annoyed me most on a windows mobile device, is the fact that the memory isn’t flushed correctly. To many times you have to do a hard reboot, in order to get the memory cleared and to get good performance again.
I mentioned the connection problems earlier, or the lack of connection… Well it hasn’t improved, when you are traveling, the phone looses connection so many times it’s a major problem. Sometimes safari stops working when the connection is lost. Damn, that annoys me… So why don’t you just use wifi? Because with wifi turned on, the battery is used up in no time at all. This brings me to the next issue: The battery. I have to charge the phone one time every day, even with wifi turned off. “Then you use the phone a lot” you might say, and the answer would be: “yes I do, but that’s what the iphone is all about…”. If you don’t use the iphone for all the things that are so nice on the phone, why use it at all. I listen to music, surf the web, check emails, and play games on it daily. And this results in a charge a day. So all in all, the battery performance is poor. Furthermore if you are playing a game, and receive a phonecall, the game is shut down, without save, stupid…
This brings me to the app store, this is the one thing that makes me praise the iPhone. Yes we have the same on windows mobile, but not so approachable and comprehensive. Installing a game or a program could be much much easier on winmo. There is only one big flaw in the app store, if you are connected through 3G, there is a max on 10 mb per download. So if you find a game that’s larger than 10 mb, you have to wait to download it. Why??? 10 mb on 3g shouldn’t be a problem… By the way, you gotta love the facebook app… All though you can’t connect a contact to its facebook profile, it’s still a nice app
The GPS is not entirely accurate, but still usable. I won’t say that much about the gps since I don’t use it allot. And google maps is more or less the same as on touch hd.
The last thing: I saw many movies on touch HD. I have ripped many of my dvd’s and converted them to divx. On touch hd you just transfer the movie to the phone and you can see it. On iphone I have to convert it to some stupid format in order to see it. I hate having movies in so many different formats, and hate to rely upon itunes.
I’ll write a new post in the near future, and as for the guy who commented on my description on to much sensitivity: Sorry, but that’s just my experience of the phone 

Samoht2003 said:
I am the proud owner of a HTC touch HD phone, and a very happy owner too. I got it just before Christmas, and it is currently running on Duttys rom, 2.6. All in all my best phone so far.
As many, I have always looked upon the iPhone as one of the absolute best phones ever made, in my opinion it more or less revolutionized how we look upon a phone’s capabilities. However, since I have never had an iPhone, I found it hard to argument for or against it. Therefore I have bought one (used), which will arrive by mail within the next few days. When I get it, I will use it for a month and keep posting here how it goes and how it performs compared to the touch HD. Why do I do this? Because I’m curious, and because I want to see what all the hype is about, and most of all, i hate the fact that everyone is *****ing about which product is the best, but only a few has actually had and used the two phones for a longer period of time.
So far I bought the phone (iPhone 3g), and I am waiting for it to arrive. I must say the wait is long I have downloaded iTunes, so all I’m waiting for right now, is the phone itself.
Besides the normal things you do with a phone (calling, sms), I daily use my touch HD for web browsing, email correspondence and video and music. All of which performs perfectly (thank you coreplayer ). So this is what I plan to use the iPhone for, since touch HD is a windows mobile phone, I rely upon activesync to take care of my outlook contacts and calendar notes, we’ll see how well iTunes does this.
I also like the fact that it is so easy to get what you want with windows mobile, mostly through you guys here at xda.
When the phone arrives I’ll post my first experiences.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Looking forward to hear your experinces

Yep look forward to it!
Not sure it was revolutionary... the LG Prada was a full touch screen phone before the iPhone.. Apple just packaged it well... Steve jobs could box a turd and sell it. pretty much like Apples claim on the mouse! That was actually Xerox's baby!

Looking forward to your experience and an honest review / comparison between the 2!

I actually have both (HTC Touch HD and iPhone 3g), too

Yeah, waiting to see your comments...

We are talking about Apples & Oranges here!!! Arent we?

the real great things on the iphone are aps! they are realy cool, good looking, running smooth... but only one at a time with a verry bad cam and no mms... (yet )
if it had a better cam, MMS (soon) eand a real GPS (and GPS software) i would defintly forget my HD!

way to go pal, will be glad to read your reviews.

bouyaka said:
the real great things on the iphone are aps! they are realy cool, good looking, running smooth... but only one at a time with a verry bad cam and no mms... (yet )
if it had a better cam, MMS (soon) eand a real GPS (and GPS software) i would defintly forget my HD!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Oh my.
Jesus phone has a lot of shortcomings, but MMS? Who cares? It's the silliest thing since plastic toothpick. Why do you want to pay your operator for this surrogate email?
And do you really consider HD's camera usable?

daraj said:
We are talking about Apples & Oranges here!!! Arent we?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Not really.... I'll explain...
I've just sold my iPhone 3G and bought a HD. My reasons were...
1) I get bored and I had the iPhone since last July and fancied a change
2) I wanted expandable memory
3) I think the iPhone is looking dated now. Controversial I'm sure...
4) I now want stereo Bluetooth streaming for a new iO Play car kit I have had fitted
I used to change phones far too often and had 13 in a year once, but the iPhone is the longest serving handset I've had for a while. Despite not being bleeding edge when it comes to the specification, the way you interact with it, the simplicity, the fluidity and the Apple ecosystem all added up to make it a revolutionary phone. There is a reason why every new touch-screen phone is an iPhone killer.
The email client is superb, web browsing superb and media playback superb. And the text inputs auto-correction is very intelligent and doesn't just look out for spelling mistakes, but patterns in typing which it relates to possible words.
The App store is great, but getting full of rubbish making the genuinely useful stuff harder to find. Rumours are there will be a premier store soon. The O2 contracts are great, as the free data and free WiFi access are superbly implemented, switching between seamlessly. And once you've authenticated with the free WiFi once that's all you ever have to do. I could walk into a Starbucks, McDonalds, Costa, Hotel, Airport etc etc and it would connect to the WiFi before I even realised I was in a hotspot.
But it's not the Jesus phone everyone seems to think. And I hate, really, really hate the fan-boy love affair some people have with it... to the point I was embarrassed by it sometimes.
"No, I don't want to talk to you about your iPhone, stranger...."
The limitations in the iPhone are 75% software based, most of which will be corrected in version 3 of the software. Things like additional Bluetooth profiles, landscape text input in all apps, MMS, tethering etc will be welcome additions.
And that's one of the things that bothered me. These are simple things that really should be included as standard.
Things like the poor camera didn't bother me. I mean, Sony Ericsson have been putting rubbish cameras in phones they didn't market as imaging devices for years. If the camera is the main focus, there are much better options (like buying a camera).
The lack of expandable memory is a big deal for a multimedia phone though. I can understand the marketing / product reasons behind it, but even that seems to contradict the 'one device to do everything' approach Apple take with this.
Now to go back to my original point, Apples Vs Oranges, the HD and the iPhone aren't that different. Both have huge strengths, both have huge weaknesses, both have massive amounts in common. The thing that differs between them is down to the person buying it. What do you want from a phone....?
Out of the box usability and slickness? iPhone.
Endless tinkering, customisation and free reign of what you do with your phone? Touch HD
But both have the capability of matching the other in every single aspect. There is pretty much nothing that you can do with one that you can't with the other. Exactly the same can be said for Windows PC operating systems Vs Apple Mac OS X. Funnily enough, most of what I have said above can be applied in some way to that argument too.
So, the other downsides to the iPhone.... (some of this is entirely personal opinion).
Text input needs work in it's current form. The keys are just too small. This is made up by the excellent auto-correction, but it's still poor. And you can't add in new keyboards without jailbreaking, which brings me to..
Restrictive approach to third party applications. Apples closed-door approach has no benefits. I originally thought it would be good as it would ensure reliability and stability, but there are some terribly shaky applications in the App Store. I see no benefit in this for consumers and the only way around involves invalidating your warranty.
Hardware restrictions - No expandable memory, as above. Screen size Vs chassis size and screen resolution are falling behind the competition. Poor build quality is another factor that's not uncommon either.
If you are the kind of person who enjoys Windows Mobile, I predict you will get frustrated with the iPhones shortfalls and will be jailbreaking it within a day.

Robster83 said:
Not really.... I'll explain...
I've just sold my iPhone 3G and bought a HD. My reasons were...
1) I get bored and I had the iPhone since last July and fancied a change
2) I wanted expandable memory
3) I think the iPhone is looking dated now. Controversial I'm sure...
4) I now want stereo Bluetooth streaming for a new iO Play car kit I have had fitted
I used to change phones far too often and had 13 in a year once, but the iPhone is the longest serving handset I've had for a while. Despite not being bleeding edge when it comes to the specification, the way you interact with it, the simplicity, the fluidity and the Apple ecosystem all added up to make it a revolutionary phone. There is a reason why every new touch-screen phone is an iPhone killer.
The email client is superb, web browsing superb and media playback superb. And the text inputs auto-correction is very intelligent and doesn't just look out for spelling mistakes, but patterns in typing which it relates to possible words.
The App store is great, but getting full of rubbish making the genuinely useful stuff harder to find. Rumours are there will be a premier store soon. The O2 contracts are great, as the free data and free WiFi access are superbly implemented, switching between seamlessly. And once you've authenticated with the free WiFi once that's all you ever have to do. I could walk into a Starbucks, McDonalds, Costa, Hotel, Airport etc etc and it would connect to the WiFi before I even realised I was in a hotspot.
But it's not the Jesus phone everyone seems to think. And I hate, really, really hate the fan-boy love affair some people have with it... to the point I was embarrassed by it sometimes.
"No, I don't want to talk to you about your iPhone, stranger...."
The limitations in the iPhone are 75% software based, most of which will be corrected in version 3 of the software. Things like additional Bluetooth profiles, landscape text input in all apps, MMS, tethering etc will be welcome additions.
And that's one of the things that bothered me. These are simple things that really should be included as standard.
Things like the poor camera didn't bother me. I mean, Sony Ericsson have been putting rubbish cameras in phones they didn't market as imaging devices for years. If the camera is the main focus, there are much better options (like buying a camera).
The lack of expandable memory is a big deal for a multimedia phone though. I can understand the marketing / product reasons behind it, but even that seems to contradict the 'one device to do everything' approach Apple take with this.
Now to go back to my original point, Apples Vs Oranges, the HD and the iPhone aren't that different. Both have huge strengths, both have huge weaknesses, both have massive amounts in common. The thing that differs between them is down to the person buying it. What do you want from a phone....?
Out of the box usability and slickness? iPhone.
Endless tinkering, customisation and free reign of what you do with your phone? Touch HD
But both have the capability of matching the other in every single aspect. There is pretty much nothing that you can do with one that you can't with the other. Exactly the same can be said for Windows PC operating systems Vs Apple Mac OS X. Funnily enough, most of what I have said above can be applied in some way to that argument too.
So, the other downsides to the iPhone.... (some of this is entirely personal opinion).
Text input needs work in it's current form. The keys are just too small. This is made up by the excellent auto-correction, but it's still poor. And you can't add in new keyboards without jailbreaking, which brings me to..
Restrictive approach to third party applications. Apples closed-door approach has no benefits. I originally thought it would be good as it would ensure reliability and stability, but there are some terribly shaky applications in the App Store. I see no benefit in this for consumers and the only way around involves invalidating your warranty.
Hardware restrictions - No expandable memory, as above. Screen size Vs chassis size and screen resolution are falling behind the competition. Poor build quality is another factor that's not uncommon either.
If you are the kind of person who enjoys Windows Mobile, I predict you will get frustrated with the iPhones shortfalls and will be jailbreaking it within a day.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
What I meant by that is the fact the HD is highly customizable to the bones, heck you can even run an Android OS on it. Iphone is a very closed OS with very little tweaks allowed by Apple ( Not talking about Jailbreaking) From the usability to the screen to the memory to the GPS vs A-GPS.. from the camera to almost everything in both phones are different. I consider the Iphone a weekend phone While the HD is a very business oriented phone that gets the job done and good.
Not sure If I can really say they are very similar. Just my 2 cents

daraj said:
What I meant by that is the fact the HD is highly customizable to the bones, heck you can even run an Android OS on it. Iphone is a very closed OS with very little tweaks allowed by Apple ( Not talking about Jailbreaking) From the usability to the screen to the memory to the GPS vs A-GPS.. from the camera to almost everything in both phones are different. I consider the Iphone a weekend phone While the HD is a very business oriented phone that gets the job done and good.
Not sure If I can really say they are very similar. Just my 2 cents
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That's fair enough. But when you sit the two side-by-side and ask them to do the same task, there isn't much difference. If you think about what you do with your phone, I'd bet the HD does things in a very similar way to the iPhone. There are only so many ways to construct a text message, make a call or browse the internet on a touch screen mobile
The one big thing I didn't mention that you have just reminded me of, is the touch screen. The capacitive screen on the iPhone is much more responsive in use.

Robster83 said:
That's fair enough. But when you sit the two side-by-side and ask them to do the same task, there isn't much difference. If you think about what you do with your phone, I'd bet the HD does things in a very similar way to the iPhone. There are only so many ways to construct a text message, make a call or browse the internet on a touch screen mobile
The one big thing I didn't mention that you have just reminded me of, is the touch screen. The capacitive screen on the iPhone is much more responsive in use.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yup. WVGA on HD and VGA on Iphone ( Not sure if its even VGA)

pretty much it boils down to what you do with it. I have both devices. I use the HD and the iphone sits on the desk. I am an admin at my company and we are windows based the windows mobile device it the best phone for us. While I like the Iphone it is not praticle for me to use. I hav not found any thing that I do on the iphone that I gave not been able to find an app that works on the hd doing the same or better. I really like being able to change the rom on my phone and customise it. Can't really do that with the iphone. And I think the display on the HD is much better.

daraj said:
Yup. WVGA on HD and VGA on Iphone ( Not sure if its even VGA)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Capacitive Vs Resistive is a bigger aspect than the resolution which, I agree, the iPhone falls short of. It is HVGA (320x480).

You have to be crazy to think that the iphone hasnt changed the mobile industry. It is an amazingly capable, intuitive and beautiful device to boot compared to these piece of lard htc OS's (the stock ones).
I owned about 15 HTC/Winmo devices starting with the SPV c500 and culminating in the Diamond as soon as it came out and got an iphone 3g at around the same time. None of the roms could come close to the intrinsic slickness, speed and support for the iphone, I jailbroke it, and was blown away and it became my primary device. However the iphone is currently mediacentric and not a buisness/professional phone and I needed an OQO UMPC to carry around as well but it doesnt claim to be anything else in fairness.
I have been quite impressed by the cooked Win 6.5 roms and skyfire recently though, and I am going to buy the HTC Touch Pro2 when it comes out as I need to use programs like word with a built in keyboard and tv out facility and perhaps retire my UMPC/laptops. This forum is also a great feature in choosing a HTC phone for customisation.
And for people who say the iphone doesnt have microsd, poor camera etc... How many crippled HTC devices have we seen? The iphone has been in a class of its own untill recent catch up devices.

imperiallight said:
And for people who say the iphone doesnt have microsd, poor camera etc... How many crippled HTC devices have we seen? The iphone has been in a class of its own untill recent catch up devices.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Expandability is (in my opinion) essential for any electronic devices. I have an 8GB card in my HD now, and I plan on upgrading to a 32GB soon by simply inserting a memory card. iPhone...can't do that. You have to buy a new phone to do so. I also have a spare battery which I can swap out when I am on the road and can't charge my phone...like camping perhaps. Iphone...can't. I like to copy and paste text from one program to another (multitasking). iPhone...can't. The HD 5MP camera takes great pictures which can be geo tagged with great accuracy. iPhone (until v2.0 comes out)...can't. Sure, there are some HD's out there that are crippled or bricked. Why? Because people that have the mental capacity to appreciate a multitasking device/computer actually like to open the hood and tweak it. Sure, iPhone apps may seem to run smoother. But that's because of the lack of multitasking! My HD (or any other Windows Mobile device) runs processes and applications in the background so you can do more and be more productive.
Honestly, do a side by side comparison of the HD and the iPhone. And I am not talking software, I mean hardware. We can debate applications all day, but it's the hardware that defines the capabilities. If you want a list of HD hardware features then I will post them for you.

*double post*

DerrickD2,
You have misunderstood the thrust of my post, that the iphone was/is a trailblazing and revolutionary device in the mobile sector. It seems anywhere bar this 'nerdy spec-hugging' forum that its not too hard to accept. The Touch HD is a better device in my opinion too as like I already stated, other companies have played catch up. There is no need to tell me its hardware specs.
But to pick up on a few points:
* Upgradeable SD is important, it annoys me to only have 16gb but I can stream content off free iphone optimised filestores available, some providing 10gb a go. Not ideal but workable.
* Spare battery, well the iphones battery is pretty decent and lasts for many years. If you want to keep the battery charged you can do it on the fly by adding these 'double your battery' packs and their ilk/cases when you are running low and you dont even 'have to swap the battery':
http://us.kensington.com/html/15462.html
* You can cut and paste text in jailbroken phones within the app. You can mulitask too, to an extent on JB phones although I dont know if it's sytemwide cut and paste (prob. not)
* Megapixels aren't everything on a camera. Its about the lens too. The 2MP camera of the iphone image quality is known to be quite decent, better than most 3.2MP HTC offerings but I agree it should have a better camera.
* Like I said the iphone isn't productivity centred and its probably why they dont consider multitasking a crucial feature but from what I understand its processor is faster than any HTC phone. Jailbroken iphones can run background apps too but obviously native apps dont support this.
We can debate applications all day, but it's the hardware that defines the capabilities.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is so contentious! Hardware can define the capabilites and software/OS/User experience can define the capabilties! It depends on what the consumer needs. Horses for course's!

iphone vs touchHD - what are the differences?

firstly, i cant see ANY good/better points to the iphone at all.
i'm fairly anti-apple (i havent owned/dont own any apple device as i consider them mediocre).
theres just so much hype and fan-boys on the internet surrounding apple kit that i cant work out the iphone at all.
these are my thoughts on the iphone:
software: you have to invalidate waranty to get 'un-official' fixes (ie: jailbreak) - WTF!?!
hardware: 3 good things - g-sensor, touchscreen, and screen size - first time they've been used together on a mobile, but far from new tech.
users: from the people i know, everyone actively promotes their iphone (which is a bad thing). they yap on about how good it is, and get all excited about a new feature that makes their iphone even better, dispite it should have been included at 1st release (cut&paste anyone?).
can someone explain why on earth iphones are so popular, and why people appear to be so blind to the obvious? is there something im missing?
for me, the touch HD anihilates the iphone (why isnt the HD being raved about more?). in a world of sat-navs, multi-tasking, and 'all-in-one' devices (sky+, PS3 for a Blu-ray player, Media-centers/HTPC etc), why is the iphone at the top of everyones list?

veehexx said:
firstly, i cant see ANY good/better points to the iphone at all.
i'm fairly anti-apple (i havent owned/dont own any apple device as i consider them mediocre).
theres just so much hype and fan-boys on the internet surrounding apple kit that i cant work out the iphone at all.
these are my thoughts on the iphone:
software: you have to invalidate waranty to get 'un-official' fixes (ie: jailbreak) - WTF!?!
hardware: 3 good things - g-sensor, touchscreen, and screen size - first time they've been used together on a mobile, but far from new tech.
users: from the people i know, everyone actively promotes their iphone (which is a bad thing). they yap on about how good it is, and get all excited about a new feature that makes their iphone even better, dispite it should have been included at 1st release (cut&paste anyone?).
can someone explain why on earth iphones are so popular, and why people appear to be so blind to the obvious? is there something im missing?
for me, the touch HD anihilates the iphone (why isnt the HD being raved about more?). in a world of sat-navs, multi-tasking, and 'all-in-one' devices (sky+, PS3 for a Blu-ray player, Media-centers/HTPC etc), why is the iphone at the top of everyones list?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Great marketing from Apple basically
People who are not to pc savvy just want an easy pickup and play device iphone is that for them.
We are a different breed

marketing
simple as that
think mp3 player....name a Sony mp3 player....which are superior to ipod in every way....well, how many people can name one? and how many are there? how to choose? you have to become a near Sony employee to make an informed decision....on the other hand you have a nice and stylish and functional ipod....one name, one product, one look, for ages now
there's only iPhone....it's pretty, it's simple, it's idiot friendly....and confuses no one....you don't have to think about hardware, UI, options, stuff, stuff....it's iPhone
no mere non-tech mortal knows of HTC or much about HTC....flashing ROMs isn't an option....customatization isn't an option
people want simple shiny things that Paris Hilton wants and has....Vertu is out of reach, iPhone isn't :/
not that it doesn't have qualities, but it's mostly master marketing
branding is alfa and omega or sales and all others release too many devices, too many options, too much confusion, people get lost and go for 1 thing they know....iPhone

iPhone 3G S:
-Faster, smoother, and snappy
-AppStore
-Stable
-Ease of use
-Nice UI Design (consistently nice even with 3rd party apps)
-Multi touch
-Better support
-Better games
Touch HD:
-Big and nice high res screen
-Stylus and finger compatible
-Full Bluetooth profile support
-Fully customizable
-Not limited to iTunes
-Dual Camera
-Expandable memory
-Removable battery
-Universal storage device (compatible with a PS3 too )
IMO WinMo is not for everyone. If you're the type of person that wants a simple, fun, and easy to use phone which is also powerful at the same time, grab the iPhone no doubt. If you're the type of person that wants to expand the possibilities like typing with an external BT keyboard, file sharing/exhange, drawing with the stylus, and/or multitasking with your phone then a phone like the Touch HD is a great device to own. If you can't decide grab those two phones like me. HA
Personally I'm waiting for a true port of Android 1.5 or higher for the HD. I'm willing to flash over WinMo (or maybe even Dual boot?) and sell my iPhone 3G S when it comes out. IMO Android is the future for HTC phones.

well i could never switch b3ecause of the limitations.
ie i use my expandable memory on m hd all the time to transfer films and music to my ps3, and if the iphone doesnt havis option then id never buy it
also i use a lot off non apple codecs for media DivX and XviD mainly but there are some windows media stuff there aswell
i watch these on the bus and stuff
and the fact that i recently learnt how to cook roms
so all in all i need my hd

This is like the 2000th topic about "Iphone vs. Touch HD".
Check this one out:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=443504&highlight=iphone
I'd relate my awnser to tweakers' one.

Topic Creator,
iPhone: Phone with Personal Computer/Multimedia Features.
TouchHD: Personal Computer with Phone features.
You then got to pick which is more important to you? Being a phone as a priority or a personal computer on the palm of your hand? Both are good phones, they just do things differently.
Good day.

Are you seriously asking this question? Starting a new thread of something that someone starts every week and just turns into a fight?

Turb0wned said:
Are you seriously asking this question? Starting a new thread of something that someone starts every week and just turns into a fight?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
what he said

tweaker said:
iPhone 3G S:
-Faster, smoother, and snappy
-AppStore
-Stable
-Ease of use
-Nice UI Design (consistently nice even with 3rd party apps)
-Multi touch
-Better support
-Better games
Touch HD:
-Big and nice high res screen
-Stylus and finger compatible
-Full Bluetooth profile support
-Fully customizable
-Not limited to iTunes
-Dual Camera
-Expandable memory
-Removable battery
-Universal storage device (compatible with a PS3 too )
IMO WinMo is not for everyone. If you're the type of person that wants a simple, fun, and easy to use phone which is also powerful at the same time, grab the iPhone no doubt. If you're the type of person that wants to expand the possibilities like typing with an external BT keyboard, file sharing/exhange, drawing with the stylus, and/or multitasking with your phone then a phone like the Touch HD is a great device to own. If you can't decide grab those two phones like me. HA
Personally I'm waiting for a true port of Android 1.5 or higher for the HD. I'm willing to flash over WinMo (or maybe even Dual boot?) and sell my iPhone 3G S when it comes out. IMO Android is the future for HTC phones.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I couldn't have said this better... I think the thread can be closed now, tweaker has said it all.

iPhone:
Imagine it's Winter and you're at the Busstop ...
You have your Gloves on ...
You have an incoming call ...
You take your iPhone out of the pocket (one hand blocked now)
You try to answer the call ... ?!?!
The Screen doesn't react because you wear Gloves !!!
You take off the Glove from your other hand with your tooth.
Caller want understand you !!!
You'll be the clown at the Busstop
Alternative End:
You will have to use your nose (capacitive screen) to anser your call.
Since it's cold (why else you should have Gloves on) you won't feel the screen ...
You make everybody laugh...
You can answer the call now (if you hitted the right spot with your Nose) ...
You'll be the clown at the Busstop
Touch HD:
Imagine it's Winter and you're at the Busstop ...
You have your Gloves on ...
You have an incoming call ...
You take your Touch HD out of the pocket (one hand blocked now)
You simply TOUCH your HD (screen or Call-Button)
You won't really be a Clown now
But to be honest:
They both have their pros and cons.
regards
fwt

the software the hardware the design

hd2 on the gadget show uk next week

Heads up.... I wonder what they say!

stuart-buchy said:
Heads up.... I wonder what they say!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd guess usual comparisons to the iPhone and thet the camera isn't amazing. They didn't actually say what phones they are going to review when the spoke about the segment on the show though. They did manage to do a reasonable review of the Nokia N95 and it won on features over the original iPhone. Only time will tell. At least it's not Jason doing the review. Just my honest opinion.

What day time and channel? I would be interested in looking at that...

Only 3 G's because it's not an iPhone or Android
Edit... This one?
TECHNOLOGY: The Gadget Show
On: Five (105)
Date: Monday 15th February 2010 (starting in 6 days)
Time: 20:00 to 21:00 (1 hour long)
Consumer technology show presented by Jason Bradbury, Suzi Perry, Jon Bentley and Ortis Deley. Suzi and Jason compete to shoot rival pop music videos. Suzi teams up with Fightstar while Jason works with Har Mar Superstar. Elsewhere, Jon tests smartphones in Italy and Ortis heads to the Czech Republic to view the amazing Snow Glider. And the whole team gathers to assemble a Top Five list of the best mobile-phone apps available.
(Followed by Five News at 9, Subtitles, 3 Star)
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Marked By: 'Favourite: The Gadget Show' and 'Search for keywords' markers
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
Excerpt taken from DigiGuide - the world's best TV guide available from http://www.getdigiguide.com/?p=1&r=243015
Copyright (c) GipsyMedia Limited.

+£50 they're going to down rate it simply because it uses WinMo, and say only that its "old, and not finger friendly", despite the first having no real relevance, and the second being near irrelevent too seeing as hardly anyone has that sort of problem with the HD2.
Fair play if they mark it down on random lag or crap keyboard though.

I like the Gadget Show but their tests are usually rubbish, I'm sure they are secretly sponsored by apple!! Even when iPhone looses all the tests they still say its better.
From what I saw at the end of last weeks show it looked like they had the HD2 up against the nexus one, but I do hope they bring the iPhone into the mix too.
I'm sure it will be the same old story, Win all the hardware tests, be the best device at most tasks, but will give it a crap rating cos the thicko's don't know how to use windows mobile!!

The Gadget show in the UK is the worst pile of drivel ever to grace our television screens.
It is a complete insult to intelligence and the only kind of people that watch it are those who want to know what objects are currently "cool"... unfortunately... the presenters of the show (and it is apparent the producers and researchers also) are completley clueless about ANY kind of tech.
The whole show ends up being a bit like the blind leading the blind.

Great New Game for All the Family
Gadget Show Lottery:
Guess how long it will take for any of the grinning ninnies presenting the show to mention the word 'Apple'
Score extra if there is a little bit of drool on their chins
Score even more if there is a visible disturbance in the trouser region
Last Week's Winner:
Mrs J.Froster from Newton Abbott, with a guess of 38 seconds. Mrs Froster wins the new iCar - identical to a real car only twice the size, entirely unusable and spectacularly unable to fulfill its basic purpose...but beautifully designed and specially marketed to hide the flaws. Available in white

Audio Oblivion said:
The Gadget show in the UK is the worst pile of drivel ever to grace our television screens.
It is a complete insult to intelligence and the only kind of people that watch it are those who want to know what objects are currently "cool"... unfortunately... the presenters of the show (and it is apparent the producers and researchers also) are completley clueless about ANY kind of tech.
The whole show ends up being a bit like the blind leading the blind.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think your being a little harsh but I do agree to a certain extent.
I still enjoy the show, but thats what its becoming "A Show" a bit like what happened with Top Gear, General sillyness with the odd bit of usefull information popping in now & then, it looks like this is whats happening to the Gadget Show too.
I still love Top Gear even though they don't review normal cars that much etc. But I love it as a Show.

Gustopher said:
Gadget Show Lottery:
Guess how long it will take for any of the grinning ninnies presenting the show to mention the word 'Apple'
Score extra if there is a little bit of drool on their chins
Score even more if there is a visible disturbance in the trouser region
Last Week's Winner:
Mrs J.Froster from Newton Abbott, with a guess of 38 seconds. Mrs Froster wins the new iCar - identical to a real car only twice the size, entirely unusable and spectacularly unable to fulfill its basic purpose...but beautifully designed and specially marketed to hide the flaws. Available in white
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
LOL, Classic!! Top Marks!!

If you want to watch
http://fwd.five.tv/gadget-show/videos/jon-test/samrtphones
HD2 came out on top

just watched that crappy review.
the gadget show must think thats all people do with a smart phone is post tweets and take pictures. no real comparison about email integration, battery life, customization, ease of use, usability, speaker quality, call quality etc, etc, etc.
smartphones are not meant to be judged on how easily they integrate with your social networks, though its a nice feature when they do.
stop comparing to the iphone, it wasnt even reviewed and its not an iphone.
rubbish program that has the specially made steve jobs blinkers on.

Agreed, the review was the briefest things I've ever seen, didn't go indepth on any of the phones at all. He might as well have just covered how the phones felt in his pocket.
The phones covered in the review were: Motorola Milestone, HD2 & Nexus One.
I LOL'd when he described the Nexus One as Google's own phone

Jon Bentley is doing the review - friend of mine - the HD2 was on 1.43 firmware!

What I found particuarly amusing was that he liked the keyboard!! And when he was looking at the pictures he said they weren't bad but I could see some distinctive pink tinging!
BUT at least the HD2 beat the other phones quite clearly. Although did anyone else notice, they didn't actually answer the question that everyone wanted to know... is the HD2 better than the iphone At least he did add very quickly that the HD2 was superior to the iphone in terms of hardware which is really pretty much undeniable fact.