Related
The new Dell Axim X51v has 256MB RAM on WM5.0. Why the hell didn't the 'Worlds' Most Powerful fu..ing phone' get this? :evil:
HTC..you are are truly wicked!!! :evil:
You build the Dell Axim don't you? :? Microsoft..you test your software don't you? Stupid question.. you obviously don't, but are quick to charge for incomplete and unpolished software. In contrast you are quick to prosecute people who actually copy your buggy software.
HTC...how can you make new geneeration devices with under-powered bits? 64 MB RAM? C'mon!! Couldn't you have at least given us 128MB RAM so we don't all worry about memory management? Are you listening? Aaarrghh... who cares right :evil: ??!!??
I can't make up my mind if the Universal is an excellent technological achievement or an overpriced, overhyped piece of poorely stiched together meta-technologies. :roll:
So now, I have to learn to become a technology guru, not because I want to, just so I can use my bloody phone. :x
I give up.
No need to have a fit mate!
You've got your numbers mixed up. The Dell Axim has 256MB of ROM, and in fact has 64MB of RAM (same as the Universal).
Windows Mobile 5 introduced persistant storage which basically means everything is stored in ROM, rather than RAM as with WM2003. This means you now have the full amount of RAM available to you, and 64MB is loads!
There's also the issue that if you double the RAM size you double the memory power requirements which affects battery life.
Take a look at this article which explains it all a lot better than I can, and you'll see it's actually a really good idea to have 64MB:
http://blogs.msdn.com/windowsmobile/archive/2005/07/14/438991.aspx
Persistant Storage
no: 1
Thank you for your informative reply & I found the provided link very useful too. Well, they should have still given us at least what the Dell has got. Except for the keyboard and phone, we've not got much more and we pay more than double! Anyway, thanks again.
I'll discuss these issues with my shrink at our next meeting, I just can't control myself.
What is in the Dell vs. other PDA's that HTC makes is not really something that is comparable. Dell pays HTC for making the Axims. I imagine that if Dell is willing to spend the money on higher specs, they can do that. HTC doesn't decide what's in the Dell Axim, Dell does (for the most part). HTC then engineers and builds the devices.
On the other hand, HTC makes the JasJar for i-mate. i-mate decides the specs they want (with some input from the phoner companies I'm sure) and they pay HTC to make their PDA's. So, just because HTC makes the PDA's doesn't mean they are all going to be same spec-minded or the same cost. It's up to the "brand" (HP, Dell, i-mate etc) what HTC makes for them.
As far as deciding whether the Universal is an excellent technological achievement or an overpriced, overhyped piece of poorly stiched together meta-technologies, it's a little bit of both. It is an excellent technological achievement AND it is overpriced
Re: HTC & MS are Cruel & Manipulative!I know u visit
mackaby007 said:
Couldn't you have at least given us 128MB RAM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The motherboard and software was designed
for 128MB RAM, but they put only 64MB into
Universal. Saves THEM money and reduces
power consumption.
DaleReeck said:
As far as deciding whether the Universal is an excellent technological achievement
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Compared to Himalaya and Blueangel, it is a
step back in engineering.
cr2 said:
DaleReeck said:
As far as deciding whether the Universal is an excellent technological achievement
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Compared to Himalaya and Blueangel, it is a
step back in engineering.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a big shame!!!
They promised us heaven, and I find myself in hell!!
This device is a dream, but without minimum 128MB, better 256 MB of RAM, becomes hell, and useless!!!!!! :twisted: :twisted: :twisted: :evil: :evil:
256Mb of Ram?
I have a (old) pentium 4 laptop that works well enough with 256Mb of Ram. Doesn't that seem a bit excessive for a PPC, especially as your battery would only last for about 93 seconds?!
As i said, 128mb, or 256 MB, do you have a JasJar? Do you know how it feels, to spend 1.094 euro plus 174 for and SD card ultra speed 2 GB, an not being able to use it at all, with the very simple applications? My Treo 650 runs much better!!!
And then, I shouldn't cry for at least 128 MB??? :twisted:
@trendstyle,
Sell the device.
Anyways, what is it that the 64MB RAM of the JJ does not permit you to do? Why on earth would you need 128MB of RAM? I multi-task extensively with the device and yet face no memory errors. Are you trying to run Photoshop or something like that on your device?
As another forum member has rightly pointed out, what on earth would you need 256Mb RAM for??? It wouldn't even last those 93 seconds!!!
Word of advice to other people who want to crib about the device. Before you start getting all nutty about spending this much and that much on a device, do a thorough research or wait for some reviews. You will save yourself and others the agony and disappointment.
My 0.002.
I entirely agree with Universaldoc.
While listening to the media player and running two processor and memory intensive applications Planmaker and TextMaker simultaneously I still have 10MB of RAM to spare. Why do I need more RAM. I am to use my JJ practically and not to see what amount of applications I need to open simultaneously to kill the JJ. More RAM is technically possible. But do I need it at the expense of battery life. A big "NO" for me at least.
Regards
Do you?
10 Mb are enough?
There are some games, that requires 15 MB of free RAM!!
And in a super top device, this should be acceptable???
Give a look here....
http://www.expansys.com/forumthread.asp?code=119353&thread=42
Then tell me if I am the only one....
I change a mobile phone every 4 months, buying always what is the top of the technology...
And believe me, at the moment, jasjar doesn't deliver what I-mate promised...
I look forward to a new rom, solving memory problems!
A new rom that came with 256mb memory with it, now there's something....
The universal is a good device and memory is fine on it you can have loads of apps running and it still runs faultlessly. This is not a lap top, if you ned one of those buy one nor is this a mobile it's a great device that tries to accomodate both, sure it could have more memory but then you'd be *****ing that " it's primarily a phone, why is the battery life so bad, it runs out half way through the day and i miss loads of important calls"
trendystyle said:
As i said, 128mb, or 256 MB, do you have a JasJar? Do you know how it feels, to spend 1.094 euro plus 174 for and SD card ultra speed 2 GB, an not being able to use it at all, with the very simple applications? My Treo 650 runs much better!!!
And then, I shouldn't cry for at least 128 MB??? :twisted:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I do thanks, and if you "can't use it at all, with the very simple applications" then I'd suggest there's something actually, properly, really, honestly, very wrong with yours?! (Especially if your Treo 650 runs much better)
I know people are now used to computing with 3Ghz AMD64's with 1Gig RAM, and 100's of Gigs of HD space, but let's be realistic here, for a device of it's size, it's fantastic.
Given 128Mb RAM, I'm sure some people would only move on to bemoaning the fact that it 'only' runs at 520Mhz, it 'only' has 128Mb Rom, it 'only' has 802.11b, it's 'only' got 1.3 megapixels, etc, etc, etc.
The JasJar is not perfect, and there's a thread in this forum where people are already posting their JasJar 2 wishlists, but in my personal opinion (and I'm sure many agree), it's currently the best PDA/Phone available, it has near flawless performance for my purposes, and I for one am more than happy with it.
sub69 said:
I know people are now used to computing with 3Ghz AMD64's with 1Gig RAM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a shame to install <8GB RAM with AMD64.
And while you are there, the second CPU will
not hurt 8)
sub69 said:
trendystyle said:
As i said, 128mb, or 256 MB, do you have a JasJar? Do you know how it feels, to spend 1.094 euro plus 174 for and SD card ultra speed 2 GB, an not being able to use it at all, with the very simple applications? My Treo 650 runs much better!!!
And then, I shouldn't cry for at least 128 MB??? :twisted:
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, I do thanks, and if you "can't use it at all, with the very simple applications" then I'd suggest there's something actually, properly, really, honestly, very wrong with yours?! (Especially if your Treo 650 runs much better)
I know people are now used to computing with 3Ghz AMD64's with 1Gig RAM, and 100's of Gigs of HD space, but let's be realistic here, for a device of it's size, it's fantastic.
Given 128Mb RAM, I'm sure some people would only move on to bemoaning the fact that it 'only' runs at 520Mhz, it 'only' has 128Mb Rom, it 'only' has 802.11b, it's 'only' got 1.3 megapixels, etc, etc, etc.
The JasJar is not perfect, and there's a thread in this forum where people are already posting their JasJar 2 wishlists, but in my personal opinion (and I'm sure many agree), it's currently the best PDA/Phone available, it has near flawless performance for my purposes, and I for one am more than happy with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The treo rusns much better, because is able to run all the applications nd games on Palm OS, Jasjar, can't run games like arvale2, age of empire, ancient evil, are we talking about the latest in pocket pc phone, that can't do what my Asus 420mhz did 1 and a half year ago???
cr2 said:
sub69 said:
I know people are now used to computing with 3Ghz AMD64's with 1Gig RAM
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It's a shame to install <8GB RAM with AMD64.
And while you are there, the second CPU will
not hurt 8)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
very funny...
By the way, do you think I am having fun??
Maybe I am posting this, to make sure, that until something get fixed with a new ROM, nobody will do the same mistake I did, Jasjar has been sent out in beta release....
I know people are now used to computing with 3Ghz AMD64's with 1Gig RAM, and 100's of Gigs of HD space, but let's be realistic here, for a device of it's size, it's fantastic.
Concerning this, I have a Dell Inspiron, 9300( a laptop), 2.14GHz Centrino Sonoma(equivalent to a Pentium 4, 3,8 Ghz), with 2 GB of ram, and Nvidia 6800 go with 256MB of video memory,I like my tech stuff to be the top, and this is why I bought right away the Jasjar, as all the review I read on the web they were screaming it was great!
My Inspiron is great, Jasjar, not at the moment...
In my point of view I assume 64 RAM are enough but if we had a big DOC storage well lets say about 256 MB this could be something for us, but the facts and the sad parts, which it's the 128MB of DOC :evil: !!!
I was reading the Universal hardware specs, we could upgrade the DOC to a bigger size!!! But we need a hardware techy to solder it.
Just goto this link you will know better Click Here!
ramram said:
In my point of view I assume 64 RAM are enough but if we had a big DOC storage well lets say about 256 MB this could be something for us, but the facts and the sad parts, which it's the 128MB of DOC :evil: !!!
I was reading the Universal hardware specs, we could upgrade the DOC to a bigger size!!! But we need a hardware techy to solder it.
Just goto this link you will know better Click Here!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If it's possible, I will do it, let me know if you get more news about it!
Hello everyone,
I have got the xperia but I was just as you confused about whether the it had got 256 or 384mb ram, so I decided to call the special x1 support to get my question solved.
The guy seemed very educated on the phone, as he answered my question without hesitation.
Apparently that guy who said there were going to be 384mb ram, was wrong. It IS 256mb. I was told that he had mixed up internal memory and RAM.
This was really dissapointing to hear as I cannot get how a senior product manager can repetetly make the same miss saying over and over again without ever publicly say that this was a miss saying.
None the less, I am keeping my phone. Its great still.
Apparently that guy who said there were going to be 384mb ram, was wrong
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
do you know who is 'that guy' to whom you refer to?
*edit* didn't see you already know who he is
TBH I can't believe it
No, Xperia get 384 Mb.
There is explanation about that.
From
http://www.tracyandmatt.co.uk/blogs/index.php/2008/10/13/sony-ericsson-xperia-x1-answers
Q&A
What is the actual RAM in the device?
The X1 has 384 MB RAM but you'll note that the device information screen says 256MB. This is because the X1 also has an additional 128MB RAM that's only accessible to the CPU/3D chip.
I am aware of this explanation but this guy really seemed sure about that it was a miss saying. He said that there is, ONLY 256mb ram.
edit: Where does this rumor come from anyway? That there is 128mb on cpu/gpu ram?
Agaas said:
Hello everyone,
I have got the xperia but I was just as you confused about whether the it had got 256 or 384mb ram, so I decided to call the special x1 support to get my question solved.
The guy seemed very educated on the phone, as he answered my question without hesitation.
Apparently that guy who said there were going to be 384mb ram, was wrong. It IS 256mb. I was told that he had mixed up internal memory and RAM.
This was really dissapointing to hear as I cannot get how a senior product manager can repetetly make the same miss saying over and over again without ever publicly say that this was a miss saying.
None the less, I am keeping my phone. Its great still.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Hmmm... could you ask him again quoting what Matt said at Tracy & Matt? Or rather, simply just ask him how much memory is dedicated to the 3D Chip.
msalmank said:
Hmmm... could you ask him again quoting what Matt said at Tracy & Matt? Or rather, simply just ask him how much memory is dedicated to the 3D Chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Okey, I will. But later when Ive got time to
inuka said:
No, Xperia get 384 Mb.
There is explanation about that.
From
http://www.tracyandmatt.co.uk/blogs/index.php/2008/10/13/sony-ericsson-xperia-x1-answers
Q&A
What is the actual RAM in the device?
The X1 has 384 MB RAM but you'll note that the device information screen says 256MB. This is because the X1 also has an additional 128MB RAM that's only accessible to the CPU/3D chip.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I think X1's RAM is 256MB at present.
Why Matt can say "128MB RAM for CPU/3D"? I don’t think Matt can know this (128MB RAM for CPU/3D) by the normal review.
ahyi said:
I think X1's RAM is 256MB at present.
Why Matt can say "128MB RAM for CPU/3D"? I don’t think Matt can know this (128MB RAM for CPU/3D) by the normal review.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
He got a PRESS release, and i'm pretty much positive that they get a detailed spec sheet or something with that. He wouldn't have said it on his own, of that i am sure.
Pardon my ignorance. Who are Matt and Tracy? I've been on their site but it doesn't have anything about them on there? I presume its a London based site given the 0208 number on their 'Contact' page
Have they either
a) been involved in the design/manafacturing process of the X1 or
b) actually opened up the device and seen for themselves?
Maby someone with a bit of knowledge behind circuits on phones could have a look at this and tell us if there infact is 384mb or not:
http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=1011334&native_or_pdf=pdf
This shows images on the xperias internal parts.
(found the link in this thread: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=434895&highlight=inside+xperia)
Ask Tracy and Matt where that information came from... OH YEAH, assumption because Xperiancers said 384 and the device shows 256 RAM. There's no way to prove there's 128 dedicated to graphics when you have the device, there's no spec that shows it. They know as little as we do and assumed.
Agaas said:
Hello everyone,
I have got the xperia but I was just as you confused about whether the it had got 256 or 384mb ram, so I decided to call the special x1 support to get my question solved.
The guy seemed very educated on the phone, as he answered my question without hesitation.
Apparently that guy who said there were going to be 384mb ram, was wrong. It IS 256mb. I was told that he had mixed up internal memory and RAM.
This was really dissapointing to hear as I cannot get how a senior product manager can repetetly make the same miss saying over and over again without ever publicly say that this was a miss saying.
None the less, I am keeping my phone. Its great still.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The 'guy" MAGNUS the MORON
Hi all. I was the one who was sherlocking the internals of the prototype tested by the FCC, I would regard the one tested by the commission as being the final version. The part number 8MA98jq257 xv99 is security badged with a unique part number manufactured by a semiconductor company called
Micron Technology Inc, They specialise in mobile ram of many variants.
and 128Mb is not out of the question since they have sizes up to a 1Gb,
The recent news of the storm successor which is in works now has alledgely 1Gb of Ram, So it's not totally out of the question.
Thanks all....time to do some IC Sherlocking, Any new information I will keep you informed.
ugh, this is likely a bad news
I've inspected this link http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=1011334&native_or_pdf=pdf
and compared it to the micron mobile ram database from the official website, here is my thoughts :
1. so far the evidence suggest that there is only 1 RAM chip in X1, the one that has 8MA898 JQ257 written on it.
2. there are no 384 RAM module in this world AFAIK.
3. so the best guess would be that RAM chip is the one with 256MB, if it a 512MB chip then it won't make sense, and it's more expensive.
4. and sadly, there is a big probability that there are actually no RAM dedicated for the GPU, because there are no other RAM chip there so far.
5. if we speculate that THAT is the VRAM, then where is the system RAM? That is the only RAM chip! Except if there are more RAM chip, that is could be the one covered with heatsink but I doubt it.
nap007 said:
ugh, this is likely a bad news
I've inspected this link http://gullfoss2.fcc.gov/prod/oet/forms/blobs/retrieve.cgi?attachment_id=1011334&native_or_pdf=pdf
and compared it to the micron mobile ram database from the official website, here is my thoughts :
1. so far the evidence suggest that there is only 1 RAM chip in X1, the one that has 8MA898 JQ257 written on it.
2. there are no 384 RAM module in this world AFAIK.
3. so the best guess would be that RAM chip is the one with 256MB, if it a 512MB chip then it won't make sense, and it's more expensive.
4. and sadly, there is a big probability that there are actually no RAM dedicated for the GPU, because there are no other RAM chip there so far.
5. if we speculate that THAT is the VRAM, then where is the system RAM? That is the only RAM chip! Except if there are more RAM chip, that is could be the one covered with heatsink but I doubt it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Need i point out that this document was created on the 10th of the last month, a few days after the announcement was spread about 384 MB RAM... so has shots of a proto, definitely. Even the people who got their hands on an Xperia by the end of the month identified it as a proto.
Anyways... Just leave this discussion. What's the use? It could be this or it could be that. SE sucks in their marketing - kudos to them on that - but i am certain that Xperia will be one hell of a phone. It does have a 3d Chip with dedicated RAM... but how much? that we can only assume to be 128 as that would bring the overall total to 384... but let's just wait and see.
I almost gave up on the set. My brother is in Dubai and i gave him the ok to purchase a Touch Pro for me, 'cos i could not wait for Xperia any more, but then i played with the Touch Pro here at a local shop and i changed my mind again. The Panels interface has much more to offer than the beatifully done TF3D... And considering that there actually turns out to be dedicated memory for the 3D chip on the Xperia, any lag will probably be overtaken with updates and so. (my cousin's Touch Diamond was extremely slow unless he applied an update last month to it, why can't Se do the same?)
I don't get why there's such a huge argument about specs, it's STILL slow in panel mode, so what does it matter? As the person who has his said, it's not "dog slow", but it's noticeably slower than he expected. That tells me that it doesn't matter how much RAM it has, it could have 4 gigs, if it doesn't perform up to expectations it's not enough.
Black93300ZX said:
I don't get why there's such a huge argument about specs, it's STILL slow in panel mode, so what does it matter? As the person who has his said, it's not "dog slow", but it's noticeably slower than he expected. That tells me that it doesn't matter how much RAM it has, it could have 4 gigs, if it doesn't perform up to expectations it's not enough.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
TF3D on Touch Diamond was damn slow and buggy at times, it sometimes still is slow in refreshing when you switch through the tabs. the Diamond's update resolved a lot of issues on TF3D performance... so is an update not possible by SE to improve their Panels further?
From the latest vids seen of Xperia, the panels are not slow. The only panel that has been noted to be slow is the Xperia Panel by SE which takes a second or two to refresh it's shortcuts... but overall there is no major difference neither is there any lag.
Furthermore, the guy said that it is slow SOMETIMES, not always.
msalmank said:
TF3D on Touch Diamond was damn slow and buggy at times, it sometimes still is slow in refreshing when you switch through the tabs. the Diamond's update resolved a lot of issues on TF3D performance... so is an update not possible by SE to improve their Panels further?
From the latest vids seen of Xperia, the panels are not slow. The only panel that has been noted to be slow is the Xperia Panel by SE which takes a second or two to refresh it's shortcuts... but overall there is no major difference neither is there any lag.
Furthermore, the guy said that it is slow SOMETIMES, not always.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ya know what? I give up. You're the definition of fanboy, anything bad that's said about this phone is wrong because you say it is and you've decided it will be amazing. I think it's a good phone, but what do numbers matter if you see the performance is slow "sometimes" anyways? 384, 256, you realize that doesn't mean a damn thing right? As for the panels not being slow, HA. I've seen plenty of videos since the release and they're noticeably laggy for certain panels. Can they improve it? Sure. Are we judging future improvements? Well, that depends, when the Diamond came out did people say "it has potential to be fast"? No, they said it's slow, call it how it is.
Black93300ZX said:
Ya know what? I give up. You're the definition of fanboy, anything bad that's said about this phone is wrong because you say it is and you've decided it will be amazing. I think it's a good phone, but what do numbers matter if you see the performance is slow "sometimes" anyways? 384, 256, you realize that doesn't mean a damn thing right? As for the panels not being slow, HA. I've seen plenty of videos since the release and they're noticeably laggy for certain panels. Can they improve it? Sure. Are we judging future improvements? Well, that depends, when the Diamond came out did people say "it has potential to be fast"? No, they said it's slow, call it how it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don´t give a f**K about how much ram there is The one thing I care about are speed and stability and this phone is the best WM device ever that I have used and I have owned a bunch. The ordinary WM OS interface flies on the phone and it is totally untweaked. Ok the panels a bit slow sometimes, it takes some second to change from one to another. But I seldom uses them - just uses the ordinary Windows todayscreen with Mobileshell, uses the mediapanel and radiopanel sometimes but none of the other. And the battery seems very good, played with all day yesterday and still got 40% when arriving home, my Diamond was dead after the same use and even the Touch Pro was near death
Black93300ZX said:
Ya know what? I give up. You're the definition of fanboy, anything bad that's said about this phone is wrong because you say it is and you've decided it will be amazing. I think it's a good phone, but what do numbers matter if you see the performance is slow "sometimes" anyways? 384, 256, you realize that doesn't mean a damn thing right? As for the panels not being slow, HA. I've seen plenty of videos since the release and they're noticeably laggy for certain panels. Can they improve it? Sure. Are we judging future improvements? Well, that depends, when the Diamond came out did people say "it has potential to be fast"? No, they said it's slow, call it how it is.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The reason i don't call it as i see it, is because no one has done a full fledge review yet, so i can't say for sure. And most videos i have seen so far have been fast. Yes panels are slow at times in switching or refreshing, but in the latest reviews, most of them are simply awesome.
Fanboy? i've only owned one SE set in my entire life and the best thing i liked about it was its headphones. I call this phone amazing, 'cos i see it to be one, not because i'm being a fan of a brand. I stand by my statement that Panels have more potential than TF3D, and i beleive that it is a huge concern that they said 384 MB and then it turns out to be 256 MB... but excuse me for being an optimist and assuming that they most likely have 128 MB dedicated to the 3D Chip. Sure we don't have any hard-proof that it has 128 MB dedicated RAM to the 3D chip, but we don't have any hard-proof otherwise either.
As for the "sometimes" slow performance, i only said that the guys who already have an Xperia in their hands are saying that it is slow in Panel switching but only at times. I agree that the Xperia Panel (SE default Panel) is slow, because i've seen it to be even in the latest videos, but as for the other panels, they are fast and smooth.
In short... to each their own opinion. But don't insult me by labelling me a fanboy making my opinion biased. To me, apart from the missing Accelerometer, Xperia seems to be the best Windows mobile device out there, and that has nothing to do with the Brand.
Take a look at these... and then tell me, are the panels not fast? Like i said, the Xperia X1 Panel is slow in refreshing its icons, but the others are fast and smooth. And not just the panels... switching from landscape to portrait and so on...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=0OnnDosWiuY
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=hjatGzL-QRA
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iTfVYd0fwYQ
Another one: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=3X824_dDgms
This one though is stretched wide, but still worth looking at.
See subject line.
I need to admit, its a lot.
But, i wonder how the memory is being shared. The HD2 has 428MB of total Ram.
But 128MB is being used by the GPU. The question is, is the 428MB ram, really global ram. Or is the 128MB ram dedicated ram for the GPU ( like the 2700g has 16MB dedicated ram ).
If its global ram, then maybe its possible to reduce the ram amount to 64MB or 32MB, and use the rest for programs... So many open question, so little information about the snapdragon's design
For instance, the Toshiba TG01 & Asus F1, both have 256MB global ram. But does that mean that both companies did not report the 128MB "extra" ram, in there total like HTC does. Or does it mean, that they use a smaller part off the 256MB ram, for its GPU.
i'm hoping that its going to be in preperation for what comes with Winmo 7, perhaps gaming, maybe MS requires such a high amount of vram as a standard?
Doesn't it have 448MB? 320+128?
Dark Fire said:
Doesn't it have 448MB? 320+128?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yes, you are right. My bad. It's indeed 448MB.
Yeah. 448MB = 128MB dedicated video memory, plus 320MB conventional memory.
I suspect other vendors probably simply don't advertise video memory; it's also possible, of course, that they have a unified memory architecture (e.g. that the TG01 and Acer F1 use their main 256MB of regular memory to store video in); that might account for the Leo's 3D graphics benchmark scores exceeding those of the TG01.
Had been the same with the Xperia X1, there where also rumors that it does have (maybe has, don't know how to chekc this) 128 MB dedicated Video RAM. Don't care to much about it. It'll be fast enough anyway!
sthoeft said:
Had been the same with the Xperia X1, there where also rumors that it does have (maybe has, don't know how to chekc this) 128 MB dedicated Video RAM. Don't care to much about it. It'll be fast enough anyway!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Is it even confirmed that 128 MB is indeed for VRAM, or is it just speculations so far (even though I'm inclined to think the same)?
Zhuk86 said:
i'm hoping that its going to be in preperation for what comes with Winmo 7, perhaps gaming, maybe MS requires such a high amount of vram as a standard?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It doesn't look like it will work on WM7 !!!!!!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4802767&postcount=4
alecs said:
It doesn't look like it will work on WM7 !!!!!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Core requirements:
Processor: ARM v6+, L2 Cache, VFP, Open GL ES 2.0 graphics HW (QCOM 8k, Nvidia “Tegra” AP15/16* and TI 3430 all meet spec)
From that single post it states that WM7 needs a Tegra graphics chip... but from the release QCOM 8k also meets the requirements, and the Leo will have Snapdragon QSD8250 1 GHz processor..
Am I missing something?? it seems it should be upgradable to WM7.
alecs said:
It doesn't look like it will work on WM7 !!!!!!
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showpost.php?p=4802767&postcount=4
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According to B3ler3fonte who gave us details about the Leo in the general thread (here: http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=560143&page=48) it will be compatible with winmo 7.
In order to save some answers, I am posting you a far more detailed specs of Leo, so, as u can clearly see from the specs, u’ll notice (and I think it was a question which was circulating from loads around this thread, of whether future WM7 will or will not be supported by Leo) that it will be absolutely supported. I think we should all celebrate!!
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why_999 said:
Core requirements:
Processor: ARM v6+, L2 Cache, VFP, Open GL ES 2.0 graphics HW (QCOM 8k, Nvidia “Tegra” AP15/16* and TI 3430 all meet spec)
From that single post it states that WM7 needs a Tegra graphics chip... but from the release QCOM 8k also meets the requirements, and the Leo will have Snapdragon QSD8250 1 GHz processor..
Am I missing something?? it seems it should be upgradable to WM7.
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Sorry I must be missing something, from this spec list I can't see anything related to QCOM 8k ?
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=2062&c=htc_hd2_us_htc_leo
alecs said:
Sorry I must be missing something, from this spec list I can't see anything related to QCOM 8k ?
http://pdadb.net/index.php?m=specs&id=2062&c=htc_hd2_us_htc_leo
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Qualcomm 8k = Snapdragon's QSD8xxx-series chips = Qualcomm Snapdragon QSD8250 (which is in the Leo).. so the processor should meet WM7 chassis 1 requirement.
why_999 said:
Qualcomm 8k = Snapdragon's QSD8xxx-series chips = Qualcomm Snapdragon QSD8250 (which is in the Leo).. so the processor should meet WM7 chassis 1 requirement.
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Thanks Why_999 I wasn't aware that the snapdragon was Qualcomm 8k series processor.
i think it should be reserved memory actually for some sense UI things and similar stuffs . not dedicated video RAM
Isnt 128 too much just for clouds? There are 3 variants possible:
- someone was speculating with specs in his blog and the rumor broke out;
- thats for gaming purposes( see wm7);
- thats for iphone graphics emulator)))
RAM is split between ARM cores, general-purpose ARM11 and radio ARM9. Portions can be reserved for other purposes (video acceleration for one) too. Chances are there's ~256Mb of RAM accessible from OS on HD2, which is fairly reasonable, IMO. More RAM means less battery life...
It's "just" to have the 1Go needed for WinMo7... I am sure our cookers will change this to get the best of this awesome phone
I just found this picture
dev.odroid.com/wiki/odroid-t/pds/FrontPage/s_blockdiagram.jpg
So does it mean only 384MB DDR is available in system?
May be this is the reason why 305M ram shows in JP3 firmware.
That could make sense.
I wonder what the difference between them is?...Could one be dedicated to the GPU or in charge of background stuff?
Did anyone notice MFC 1080p 30 fps there?
That system block diagram isn't a Samsung official one, and frankly, i think it's wrong.
If the main memory in the Galaxy S was LPDDR1, we'd see lower GPU performance, MUCH lower. Memory bandwidth is everything when it comes to GPU on mobile devices like this.
Pika007 said:
That system block diagram isn't a Samsung official one, and frankly, i think it's wrong.
If the main memory in the Galaxy S was LPDDR1, we'd see lower GPU performance, MUCH lower. Memory bandwidth is everything when it comes to GPU on mobile devices like this.
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GPU RAM must be OneDRAM，OneDRAM is much faster than normal DRAM.
You can google "OneDRAM".
So I guess we might not really have 512MB of ram (as advertised)... isn't it? I mean, if these MBs are reserved to GPU use only. There will come a day when they will be needed for other use than graphics :|.
They are not reserved for GPU use only.
OneDRAM is like an intersection for routing information with as-little-as-possible blockades in the middle.
Splitting the memory to "conventional" ram and onedram is going against the very principal of onedram. I am having a hard time to believe they actually did that.
^Sbk79^ said:
So I guess we might not really have 512MB of ram (as advertised)... isn't it? I mean, if these MBs are reserved to GPU use only. There will come a day when they will be needed for other use than graphics :|.
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There is no official statement about RAM size.
I noticed the diagram says "TFT LCDC". That seems wrong, does it not?
coocood said:
There is no official statement about RAM size.
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This. You'll find a lot of press about the Galaxy S having 512mb RAM, but where does Samsung itself advertise this? I cannot find anything about it anywhere on Samsungs website. Maybe we should ask them?
GSMarena pressed on the issue when the phone was released, and samsung replied that there are indeed 512MB.
Lol....So do we actually know if it has 512MB of RAM or not? As some others have stated it might help explain why the Sammy has lag issues and the Desire does not..
BTW, I dont own either at present and am just going by what I have read in these forums.
That diagram also doesn't list wireless N, does that mean our phones don't have wireless n???
Pika007 said:
GSMarena pressed on the issue when the phone was released, and samsung replied that there are indeed 512MB.
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well..... using my onboard math processor I compuete that 384+128 = 512..
So samsung wouldnt have been lying if they had said there was 512.. even if 128 might be dedicated to the gpu or something else. 512+128 would have been nicer though.
I wonder if this diagram is accurate.
The picture is of ODROID-T which is a tablet style device for developers.
Its hardwares are quite similar to SGS but I don't think this block diagram should be showing exactly the same informations as SGS's.
Have a look at this site;
http://dev.odroid.com/wiki/odroid-t/
Well, the S5PC110 doesn't have the memory built in beforehand. It's changeable, the controller supports OneDRAM, LPDDR1 and LPDDR2. You can stick whatever you want in there.
Remember that only what's in the blue square is the actual SOC.
Kilack said:
well..... using my onboard math processor I compuete that 384+128 = 512..
So samsung wouldnt have been lying if they had said there was 512.. even if 128 might be dedicated to the gpu or something else. 512+128 would have been nicer though.
I wonder if this diagram is accurate.
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How does this differ from the HTC Desire setup? I know it has 576 MB RAM, but not sure how its split up...
Well, I checked before posting. Google for an official press release from Samsung Australia. Xda is not letting me post external links due to my low number of posts. However, I love my S. I'm just saying that this mem thing is starting to smell a little bit of i7500, from a customer relations' POV. Let's just hope we actually have a different design and that, as rumors say, new kernels will unlock all available ram.
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I also found a tear down analysis of Korean version galaxy s.
The author said it has "4Gb NAND+3Gb DDR+1Gb OneNand",which is incorrect.
Some comment below said it is OneDram actually.
If not for the OneDram,How can samsung declare 90M triangles/sec instead of powerVR's figure of 28M triangles/sec.
OneDram is more expensive than DDR.
I guess samsung does't say anything about RAM because it's a different structure,and hard to explain.
gosh i have been lurking on these forums to buy this phone
but with this memory issue it seems like the OMNIA II all over again
there the phone was advertisied with 512mb but only so little was left to the user!!
samsung samsng oh samsung!
Edit: TL;DR VERSION: 128 of that 512 megs of RAM in ur Epic is leet special-sawce Samsung RAM that pwns other RAMs, and makes ur GPU make moar trianglez in ur gamez.
Forgive me folks, I'm lazy, so I'm posting this more or less verbatim from what I posted in my blog, with a few minor tweaks. It's long and probably boring, so you have my apologies in advance.
Despite my efforts to pull myself away from ARM architecture, Android, and specifically, the mysteries surrounding the Hummingbird processor, I can never really extract myself. One of these days I'll get around to obsessing over something else (hopefully career-related) but until then, I'll let you know what I think I've uncovered as the solution to how Samsung solved the GPU bandwidth issue (which I puzzled over in my original Hummingbird vs. Snapdragon article.)
There have been a few opportunities where I've had to step in and correct people when they post that a Galaxy S phone has only ~320 megs of RAM. It's an error I see made frequently when people use Android system info applications that can only see the 320 megs of volatile memory, despite the fact that the phone does actually contain 512 megs of RAM. We see it happen every time a new Galaxy S phone is leaked, even the Nexus S.
The explanation for this has always been that a certain amount of memory have been "reserved" by Samsung for the Android OS, and that memory is not visible nor available to applications. Despite this, I've never been able to figure out exactly how the system provides the 12.6 GB/sec of memory bandwidth it (theoretically) needs to push out 90 million triangles/sec with the PowerVR SGX540 GPU.
I'm not quite sure how it happened, but in my meanderings across the interwebs, I ran across the following image on ODROID.com of the block diagram of the S5PC110 that they use for their developer board.
(Edit: Image-Shacked... ODROID didn't appreciate me hot-linking their image. Whoops. Use the ODROID.com link above to see the original.)
Careful observation of the POP (Package-On-Package, or "Stacked" circuits) module on the left-hand side shows 384 MB of LPDDR1 and 128MB of OneDRAM, a term I'd noticed on S5PC110 documentation on the list of supported technologies. I'd assumed that it wasn't used. I'd already determined that even though the Hummingbird supports LPDDR2, it only supports it at 400 Mbps transfer rate (which LPDDR1 is capable of) and, with an x32 bus, only allows for 1.6 GBps data bandwidth, a far cry from the 12.6 GBps needed.
So what is this OneDRAM? According to Samsung, "OneDRAM is a fusion memory chip that, can significantly increase the data processing speed between a communications processor and a media processor in mobile devices," and, "...this results resulting in a five-fold increase in the speed of cellular phone and gaming console operations, longer battery life and slimmer handset designs." (Sic.)
Hear hear! 5 times 1.6 GBps still doesn't equal 12.6, but the 12.6 number is a something I arrived at using a lot of assumptions (4.2 GBps bandwidth needed by the PowerVR SGX540 to perform 28 million triangles per second, multiplied times 3 to make ~90 million triangles per second). I'm satisfied that the OneDRAM is that holy grail memory I've been looking for.
Now, how to prove that it actually exists inside my Epic 4G? Remember, the S5PC110 Hummingbird doesn't come with memory built-in; that's something that gets stacked on when the phone is built. The ODROID guys could very well be using a completely different configuration; though that ~320 megs showing up over and over in Android system info apps hardly seems like a coincidence, assuming the difference between 384 and 320 is actually reserved memory for the OS' own system applications. The OneDRAM on the other hand would be reserved primarily for hardware use, such as the GPU as Samsung earlier suggested.
I turned to one of my Android developer acquaintences, noobnl of xda-developers.com. When I showed him what I've run across, (hoping to see if he'd heard of this before, as he has a good handle on Epic hardware) he told me that I had made a good find. He also pasted some kernel code that clearly referenced OneDRAM, proving that the Epic 4G contains this technology.
So there you go folks. The secret is out. The Galaxy S phones are likely able to achieve such amazing graphics performance via a 128 MB Samsung-proprietary high-speed hybrid memory solution. The remaining 384 megs of memory is plain-jane LPDDR1. The total is the promised 512 megs, and honestly, I wouldn't trade the OneDRAM for 128 megs more of LPDDR1 available application memory, but it's interesting how Samsung has kept the OneDRAM solution so quiet. It's likely enjoying the current GPU supremacy of the Galaxy S phones, unfortunately come Cortex-A9, LPDDR2 memory (> 400 Mbps), and dual-channel memory controllers, they will be back on a level playing field. Who could blame them for setting aside Orion and picking up NVIDIA's Tegra 2 SoCs for their next-gen smartphones? It's a fast-moving industry out there, particularly when you don't have Intrinsity any longer as your ace-in-the-hole. Curse you, Apple.
PS - Some of you guys on here know more about this **** than I do. Please feel free to offer suggestions, corrections, and jeers. Though I'm hoping for less of the latter.
Dude what?
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Mannnnnnn ....I had a hunch it worked like that
thanks for clearing this up Im glad im not the only one that figured this out!
Are you not compensating for TBDR memory efficiency?
Interesting. Could also complicate porting newer Android versions, at least wih the same efficiency.
I pretend I understood all that you said..and say...Voila..FINALLY!
Yeah I've seen documentation saying the Galaxy S phones have 4Gb of RAM. 1Gb of which is OneDRAM and 3Gb is LPDDR (Idk version). Now, tell us why ODROID and the block diagram can do 1080p and we can't.
EDIT:
thephawx said:
Are you not compensating for TBDR memory efficiency?
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I just pulled my information from some raw data about the Intel GMA500 (which is an SGX540 disguised as Intel) running at 200 MHz. I would assume the 4.2 GB/s bandwidth needed assumes TBDR is being used.
It's a shaky line of reasoning though. Wish I had some more hard data on the SGX540, and more specifically, the clock rate it runs at in the Epic.
arashed31 said:
Yeah I've seen documentation saying the Galaxy S phones have 4Gb of RAM. 1Gb of which is OneDRAM and 3Gb is LPDDR (Idk version). Now, tell us why ODROID and the block diagram can do 1080p and we can't.
EDIT:
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Yeah, I could swear I've seen those numbers somewhere but I can't for the life of me find it.
As for the 1080p, that's a good catch; interesting. And, now that I look closer, WiFi doesn't have N support, though I suppose it's possible they used a different WiFi chip.
delete, double post.
Interesting...I guess it makes sense somewhat...though with that much processing why would they then set an FPS limit? is it suppose to be their way of saving energy?
As for 1080p..we have specifications for it..If i were to guess we just don't have the proper drivers...video decoding is done via the ARM Neon..so if anything 1080p would play slow..but it doesn't play at all...so its either locked out intentionally..or the driver is not configured to...I mean it can handle 720p at [email protected] reason why it can't handle 1080p at lower settings...
Wow.. My brains are like oh my gawds!
Interesting tho
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Another thing. If you look at the Bluetooth certification site you'll see the Samsung Epic is certified for Bluetooth 3.0. Even though the chip in there is a Broadcomm chip that only supports Wireless N and Bluetooth 3.0.
gTen said:
Interesting...I guess it makes sense somewhat...though with that much processing why would they then set an FPS limit? is it suppose to be their way of saving energy?
As for 1080p..we have specifications for it..If i were to guess we just don't have the proper drivers...video decoding is done via the ARM Neon..so if anything 1080p would play slow..but it doesn't play at all...so its either locked out intentionally..or the driver is not configured to...I mean it can handle 720p at [email protected] reason why it can't handle 1080p at lower settings...
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Video decoding is on the processor? WHAT. THE. HELL. SAMSUNG.
Sounds like you did your homework, i'll buy it. Thanks for sharing. I'll take the fast vid over ram too
tmuka said:
Sounds like you did your homework, i'll buy it. Thanks for sharing. I'll take the fast vid over ram too
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Homework, yes... but I'd really like to see an ARM engineer affirm it.
gTen said:
Interesting...I guess it makes sense somewhat...though with that much processing why would they then set an FPS limit? is it suppose to be their way of saving energy?
As for 1080p..we have specifications for it..If i were to guess we just don't have the proper drivers...video decoding is done via the ARM Neon..so if anything 1080p would play slow..but it doesn't play at all...so its either locked out intentionally..or the driver is not configured to...I mean it can handle 720p at [email protected] reason why it can't handle 1080p at lower settings...
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Yeah, I just actually took a look at the S5PC110 User Manual and sure enough, 1080p encoding / decoding at 30 FPS is showing supported on the block diagram:
"1080p 30 fps MFC
Codec H.263/H.264/MPEG4
Decoder MPEG2/VC-1/Divx"
But then, directly below the block diagram, the following is shown:
"Multi Format Codec provides encoding and decoding of MPEG-4/H.263/H.264 up to [email protected] and
decoding of MPEG-2/VC1/Divx video up to [email protected] fps"
That's an odd discrepancy, particularly for an official Samsung processor owner's manual.
Also worth mentioning is that that manual makes no mention of OneDRAM in the memory subsystem breakdown where OneNAND, LPDDR1, LPDDR2, and DDR2 support are outlined, however, it's clearly listed as a supported memory type in the block diagram, and later throughout the manual. Hmm.
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