Database Users

Why Google needs “Direct Push” for Google Apps

Direct Push with Google Apps?!?!?!
Hi everyone. I think I might have asked this question before but maybe something has developed in the last few months.
I am running my own IT consulting business and as I get more and more busy my calendar is becoming an ever more important tool. My dear wife went out and got me a good old-fashioned spiral bound day-timer but I have a sophisticated day-timer right here in my pocket in the form of my HTC Touch. As an IT consultant I think I should be using it rather then pulling out the pen and paper. Right now I am using the calendars in my Touch, Outlook, Google Apps and the calendar in the Exchange account I have with one of my customers. Too many calendars and all because I really want to use my Google Apps calendar and have it sync with my Touch.
I really want Google to develop “Direct Push” technology so that I can get my email, calendar and contacts all from my Google Apps account just like it was an Exchange Server. I am even considering switching my email back to an Exchange Server just so I can sync with my Touch. This way my wife could login and add stuff to my calendar and it will appear on my Touch. Right now I have my Email coming in from Google Apps via IMAP, my Calendar synching with Outlook (installed locally on my laptop without Exchange) and my Contacts syncing with my customer’s Exchange server. This is a pain and I want everything in one place that can be maintained/synced in real-time.
I will say this right now and keep in mind that as an IT consultant I like Microsoft’s products and install things like Windows 2003, SQL Server and Exchange on an almost daily basis. If Google develops “Direct Push” for Google Apps it will be an Exchange killer. The only, and I mean only reason I am thinking about switching my domain back to Exchange (I moved from Exchange to Google Apps about 1 year ago) is for the ability to sync everything (not just email) with my Touch.
On the other hand if Microsoft comes out with a version of Outlook/Exchange that dispenses with the whole “Inbox/Sent items/Delete” model and goes for the Google-style “conversation & archive” model along with the search capabilities I might fall back in love with Exchange.
The Fish

Oh and just in case anyone from Microsoft is listening, “threaded inbox” isn’t what I mean by “conversation style”. Come on Microsoft. Just admit that Google has actual built a better mousetrap and managed to improve on the age-old email model of “folders” and “sent items”. Go ahead and copy them… copy, copy copy! Oops sorry, I mean “embrace and extend, embrace and extend”

Something like that would be great!

matthew232 said:
Something like that would be great!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
And not to mention totally do-able. There is already an non-Exchange mail server out there called “KerioMail Server” that implements Microsoft’s Direct Push protocol. Check out this link http://www.kerio.com/kms_activesync.html
Microsoft’s Direct Push is entirely HTTP based. It shouldn’t be that difficult for Google to do.
The Fish.

I guess you have to wait for Google Android.

thefish123 said:
On the other hand if Microsoft comes out with a version of Outlook/Exchange that dispenses with the whole “Inbox/Sent items/Delete” model and goes for the Google-style “conversation & archive” model along with the search capabilities I might fall back in love with Exchange.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The moment they do that (without giving an option) is when I would have to quit using Exchange. I **hate** Gmail's threading and forward those mails to another account that isn't threaded (and the fact that they don't let you turn it off).

I know it's not exactly what you're looking for, but have you checked out any of the 3rd party sync options? GMobileSync is a free little program that allows bidirectional syncing for your calendar (not push though). GooSync offers a free service level that also gives you calendar syncing. If you upgrade to their payed version (I think it is something like $30-40 for a whole year) you get not only calendar sync, but contacts, tasks etc. Might be worth a look.

jeffreycentex said:
The moment they do that (without giving an option) is when I would have to quit using Exchange. I **hate** Gmail's threading and forward those mails to another account that isn't threaded (and the fact that they don't let you turn it off).
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Microsoft would never do it without making it an option. But I am surprised to hear you say that you head Gmail’s threading. Quite honestly you have got to be the FIRST person I have heard say that.
I have never (till now) talked to anyone who switched to Gmail who didn’t have anything but good to say about it. Most people I know who use Outlook or Outlook Express and who do ANY real volume of email spend at least an hour to two hours a day “organizing” their email. They have a whole list of sub-folders under their Inbox and then have almost the exact same set of sub-folders under their “Sent Items”. They spend time trying to decide how to file things or if they should file it in the first place or just delete it. Sometimes they delete and email and two of three days later the whole issue has ballooned into a big issue and they are filing the responses but no longer have their original email because they didn’t think it would become important.
Gmail lets me keep my Inbox clean while at the same time never worrying about filing or organizing or having trouble finding things back. I would probably hate Gmail if I was still trying to fit it into my narrow 20-year-old “I must use folders” paradigm of thinking (which I did when I first started using Gmail) but it was fun to give up on that and the new paradigm of “never file, never delete” is so superior.
I don’t really case WHERE my email is as long as I can find it back in a natural way. I think in years to come we are going to see the same thing happening on computers and to some extent we already are. The #1 reason most people hate Windows Vista is because of the way the new “Explorer” obscures the hierarchal folder model that everyone is used to from our Norton Commander days. It is really very Mac-like. Most Mac users couldn’t tell you where their pictures were in terms of a “directory” or a “folder” but they have less trouble finding them, or copying them to a USB drive, or attaching them to an email then most Windows users.
If we ever do see WinFS (Windows Future Storage) it is supposed to be a Microsoft SQL layer bolted on top of the file system and gives you database-style searchability with all kinds of meta data attached.
The thinking behind the Reiser file system is that any structure on top of the file system for storing data indicates that the file system isn’t doing it’s job. And I can kinda see the point.
The Fish

I agree, Gmail should definately come out with direct push technology
I currently use gmail with pocket outlook with imap.
It's annoying having it set to check my email in intervals.
I didn't even know what direct push was until today, until i saw a friend using his phone w/ his private exchange server...my first reaction was wow...i want that!!
I'm hoping android will implement features like direct push, among others.

surgex0 said:
I didn't even know what direct push was until today, until i saw a friend using his phone w/ his private exchange server...my first reaction was wow...i want that!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It’s not even so much that I want “push” email (although that would be cool). The biggest issue is that there is no way to sync my Calendar and my Contacts with Gmail. This means I either A) have to use the Calendar/Contacts on my Touch in their “stand alone” form without syncing to anything or B) have to sync them with something else.
I really like being able to use my web-based Gmail calendar (Google Apps) but I wish like crazy there was some way to get this on my Touch.
The Fish.
PS: when you sign-up for Google Apps it asks you what (if any) previous mail system you used. As an example it says in brackets “Microsoft Exchange”. This makes me think that Google Apps is positioning themselves to take the SMB email market away from Exchange. I think if they really want to do this they will make Google Apps look just like an Exchange Server to the millions of WM devices out there. Currently I am seriously considering moving my email back to Exchange when I get my own server online (in a few weeks).

Google's apps for WM are all in java aren't they?
I know the gmail one is, and it sucks big c---.
I'd rather use opera and gmail html mobile than use their ****e java client.

surgex0 said:
Google's apps for WM are all in java aren't they?
I know the gmail one is, and it sucks big c---.
I'd rather use opera and gmail html mobile than use their ****e java client.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Googlemaps apparently has a native app now (altho I would rather use Livesearch), so no, they aren't all JAVA. I take it you visit the HTML site instead of using IMAP so that you can see the threading and other g-mail features?

If you want gmail to push, use SEVEN at
community.seven.com
john

Sync & Push
I use www.mobipush.com to push my gmail and it works instantaneously. Fantastic. This is free, perhaps only while they are in beta.
I also use www.oggsync.com for syncing my calendar. There is a free version, but I bought the software and daily sync about 11 calendars 2 months backwards and 2 years forwards. Hardly ever any issues. They are working on contact sync - have a public beta out now.

surgex0 said:
Google's apps for WM are all in java aren't they?
I know the gmail one is, and it sucks big c---.
I'd rather use opera and gmail html mobile than use their ****e java client.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I don’t know if it’s really the Gmail client that sucks so much as that it just doesn’t run properly on the version of Java that comes on my Touch (the Bell Mobility Touch in Canada). I was pretty happy to have the Java Gmail client on my Razr back before I got my Touch.
That being said I keep hoping they will come out with a native Windows Mobile version like they did with Google Maps. But then again it seems kinda silly to come out with an email client for a device that already has a built-in integrated email client. The better solution would be to make the pre-exiting email, calendar and contacts features work properly (as in within their native capacity – meaning DirectPush) with their Gmail counterparts.
The Fish

Google Calendar?

I have been looking for a google calendar app and haven't found anything to speak of. I have found a couple like google sync and stuff, but I was hoping somebody had an idea about a program that would go in the today screen or a stand alone program that showed google calendar.
Seems like with the beast that google is somebody would have created a program. Any advice?

GooSync maybe?

I tried GooSync a few months back and it was super buggy. It duplicated my meetings and whenever I synced my phone it put additional entries in Outlook. Have you used it recently? Perhaps I'll try it again.

I just found this: http://www.google.com/mobile/winmo/calendar/
I think it's a Java based app...
EDIT: It's a web browser based app...

That just takes you to a dumbed down version of a web based google calendar. I guess i just need to use Opera or Skyfire and use the web based version of gcalendar. Doesn't seem to be a better way that I've found through google or here.

Using the GData API, it should be relatively easy to create a client for WM.
Currently (about 20 minutes reading the documentation) I've got something that can log in and retrieve data.
http://code.google.com/apis/calendar/developers_guide_dotnet.html

I'm not a programmer but I am computer savvy. My question is, what/how do you compile the code to make it a program for WM? Do you use a certain program?

alaiwy said:
I'm not a programmer but I am computer saavy. My question is, what/how do you compile the code to make it a program for WM? Do you use a certain program?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm coding and compiling within Visual Studio 2008, in C# .NET CF.

Ah, that would be a program I don't have!
Thanks for the info.

alaiwy said:
Ah, that would be a program I don't have!
Thanks for the info.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are lots of other alternatives...

I have been using goosync on my WM5 device for quite a long time now. I have been syncing my Google calendar with Outlook client and also with my Lightning application(calendar with Thunderbird). The moment a meeting is entered/deleted in either of these apps(Wm5 device, outlook , google on web or lightning) it reflects everywhere. Only Goosync needs to be activated manually.

l3v5y said:
There are lots of other alternatives...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Any of those alternatives free? I wouldn't mind learning some of this stuff but I don't have the money to buy Visual Studio etc.

alaiwy said:
Any of those alternatives free? I wouldn't mind learning some of this stuff but I don't have the money to buy Visual Studio etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'm fairly certain there are some. Particularly for Linux...
There's even a compiler for WM!
PPC http://pocketgcc.sourceforge.net/pcsharp/
Desktop http://dotgnu.org/

Take a look at this for your Google Calendar :
http://www.pocketcm.com/calendar.php
Inside the zip you'll find an app (Gsync) which you can use to sync all your google calendars to your pda at once.
After syncing you can find all your appointments from the Google cal's in your calendar app on your pda.
It's one way syncing only but it works very well.

Thanks Zakk
I just found
http://www.milow.net/public/projects/activegcsync-project-page.html
This works superbly and I'd suggest it for doing this type of syncing. It is a 3rd party program that syncs your pocket outlook calendar to your gmail and vice versa. I have tested it and if you add/delete from gcalendar or pocket outlook it will sync properly.
All-in-all i'm happy with it. Although i was sort of excited about trying to program my own!

try remote calendars
http://www.jakeludington.com/ask_ja...th_outlook_and_smartphones_automatically.html

alaiwy said:
I tried GooSync a few months back and it was super buggy. It duplicated my meetings and whenever I synced my phone it put additional entries in Outlook. Have you used it recently? Perhaps I'll try it again.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I dunno why, but I *always* get a parse error on my phone (regardless of what calender account I sync). I've tried four of these programs, same thing with every program.
Anyone ever seen that?

I used to get errors all the time while trying to sync up my calendars. I learned that you can't have any repeating calendar entries. For example, if I have the same meeting every Monday at 3pm I must put in a new entry every Monday. If you try and put in a calendar entry to repeat every Monday at 3pm then you usually end up with errors when you try and sync the calendars.

dbourcy said:
I used to get errors all the time while trying to sync up my calendars. I learned that you can't have any repeating calendar entries. For example, if I have the same meeting every Monday at 3pm I must put in a new entry every Monday. If you try and put in a calendar entry to repeat every Monday at 3pm then you usually end up with errors when you try and sync the calendars.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Yeah, I thought about something like that, so I tested it with a brand new account. With just one test event (non-multiday). Same error message.

alaiwy said:
Thanks Zakk
I just found
http://www.milow.net/public/projects/activegcsync-project-page.html
This works superbly and I'd suggest it for doing this type of syncing. It is a 3rd party program that syncs your pocket outlook calendar to your gmail and vice versa. I have tested it and if you add/delete from gcalendar or pocket outlook it will sync properly.
All-in-all i'm happy with it. Although i was sort of excited about trying to program my own!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
works great, thanks mate

Exchange on the Hero, first impressions

I've noticed that not has much been said on the Hero's exchange support in any of the reviews or user reports so I thought I'd let people know what it's like as, for me, this is a must have feature. I should say that I have not had an android phone before and so I have had no experience with Nitrodesk's exchange solution so I can't compare.
Well, I entered my exchange details during initial set-up and after my first attempt was unsuccessful (SSL needed and is off by default) it than worked. Asked me if I wanted to sync Mail, Calender and Contacts all of which I selected. After the rest of the setup had finished the phone told me I had a new e-mail arrive so I could tell it was working straight away.
Mail is fantastic. Downloads everything fine, has at least as many options as WM for choosing which messages to download. E-mails look great on the display and html e-mails show up fine.
Contacts are great, they all appear straight away in the people and the phone application. All the Facebook and Flikr integration works perfectly. Only niggle is that you can't group contacts by company which is something I used to do on WM.
Calender seems to work fine. Appointments showed up ok, including appointments sent by e-mail.
All in all, the exchange sync is way better than expected and in some ways better than WM. The integration seems very deep and integral to the OS rather than a bolt on feature.

I agree with you there Bud, just a shame that there is no task sync support yet - still looking

All was fine for me, but as soon as I've allowed it to connect my contacts to FB contacts, sync fails for conacts with a 'client/server conversion error' message.
I'm using exchange 2003, mail and calendar are syncing fine, and I too would love tasks to be added, along with a fix for contacts and I'm a happy hero user

Strange - I have had no issues with the Fb sync but i use Exchange 07

Just Exchange, or...
...also Outlook?

not tried to sync with outlook yet, whats the best app for that?
I would settle for an outlook connector that I could just set to sync contacts and tasks, as these two arent really changing so frequently I wouldnt mind having to 'plug in' to sync these.

I just use exchange so can't comment on outlook sync. Facebook linking worked fine for me but I also have exchange 2007 so can only assume it's a problem there. Not sure if the exchange functionality is all implemented by HTC or whether they've used part of Nitrodesk's Touchdown but I saw on the Nitrodesk website that they don't support exchange 2003 yet.

gingepaul79 said:
not tried to sync with outlook yet, whats the best app for that?
I would settle for an outlook connector that I could just set to sync contacts and tasks, as these two arent really changing so frequently I wouldnt mind having to 'plug in' to sync these.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
The only app is HTC sync which is included along with the hero's manual on the sd card supplied with your phonbe, word of warning i just installed htc sync on my vista pc and it caused windows explorer to continuously crash until i uninstalled it, not impressed

Tried to install the app ealier, drivers failed and the app wont work (win 7 32 bit)

Going to try the long way round for now - sync outlook contacts to my google account and keep the google contacts synced to my phone - would I end up with a duplicate of everyone then though?

gingepaul79 said:
Going to try the long way round for now - sync outlook contacts to my google account and keep the google contacts synced to my phone - would I end up with a duplicate of everyone then though?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I, like you (not I like you!), have synced up this way. I too cannot get HTC sync to work. I am sure Orange have bundled the wrong version.
So, I export Outlook to a file, then import contact file to google cal, then sync gcalendar to hero. Job done.
No duplicates, google calendar seems intelligent enough to recognise the dups

I would like to share my experience
Booted up.... would you like to set up exchange?
HELL YES!!!!
enter the details..... (internet accessible exchange server)
<entered>
What you wanna sync my boy?
EVERY GOD DAMN THING
oooooook here we go.......
<done.>
Sweet!

Thinking about an Adriod as my next phone, since I think WM is really falling behind everyone else! I use it mostly for work so a couple of questions if you don't mind....
No tasks syncing so far?
How does the calander work, are the views easy to see, day and week stuff?
Meeting requests work?
Can you flag email messages? This is a must for me and I hate that WM 6.5 can't even do it!
How do you find the keyboard replying to emails?
Can you open Word, Excel, PDF files?
Any other features it has for work that WM doesn't?
Thanks

Exchange
I'm having probs with exchange.
It will only sync my main inbox, not any of the subfolders I have, and will only sync via mobile network - fails on wifi ? ?
Then again can't get ANY web stuff on wifi ? ?

Word and excel fully creatable and editable with Docs to Go, and Open Office I think does let you read different docs though not sure which. Best PDF Reader seems to be RepliGo Reader which is good for books as well.
I'm only just getting to grips with Google Calendar but seems to have a great deal of flexibility for appts and stuff.
Widgets really just getting going, so I'm not sure of all those available...
Daisy - Magic owner, so Hero may be slightly different xx

herman3101 said:
I've noticed that not has much been said on the Hero's exchange support in any of the reviews or user reports so I thought I'd let people know what it's like as, for me, this is a must have feature. I should say that I have not had an android phone before and so I have had no experience with Nitrodesk's exchange solution so I can't compare.
Well, I entered my exchange details during initial set-up and after my first attempt was unsuccessful (SSL needed and is off by default) it than worked. Asked me if I wanted to sync Mail, Calender and Contacts all of which I selected. After the rest of the setup had finished the phone told me I had a new e-mail arrive so I could tell it was working straight away.
Mail is fantastic. Downloads everything fine, has at least as many options as WM for choosing which messages to download. E-mails look great on the display and html e-mails show up fine.
Contacts are great, they all appear straight away in the people and the phone application. All the Facebook and Flikr integration works perfectly. Only niggle is that you can't group contacts by company which is something I used to do on WM.
Calender seems to work fine. Appointments showed up ok, including appointments sent by e-mail.
All in all, the exchange sync is way better than expected and in some ways better than WM. The integration seems very deep and integral to the OS rather than a bolt on feature.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have reiceved my G2 touch and havn't been able to setup exchange sync over the air. It goes past first option i.e. to show me what i want to synch mail, contacts, calendar and than when I click on finish setup it fails with message unable to create account try later! Any idea what is going wrong. How can I fix it?
Sachin

Anyone have any experience with exchange sync where the server requires you to set a password/pincode for the phone?
Heard some people saying that this was not supported by the Hero. A pity if true, as I need this to work in order to be able to use the Hero as a work phone (in other words, if I am to buy a Hero).

The out of the box exchange support is really very good. It just needs the ability to authenticate via password or client certificate.
I much prefer it to WM, but only because its completely finger friendly.
Yes you can flag emails, and they show up under the flagged emails tab at the bottom.

I really really hope the update within 10 days or September will affect this thing? Need to be able to sync more than one folder at the time.

cbailey said:
I, like you (not I like you!), have synced up this way. I too cannot get HTC sync to work. I am sure Orange have bundled the wrong version.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
works for me on vista 64 with orange branded HTC Touch. I believe there is an update on the HTC website, not sure if that enables win7 support
I certainly didn't notice explorer crashing after I installed it, chances are it's another explorer extension interfering (either a media codec that is failing at showing thumbnails, or a right-click extension or similar)

Android & Exchange Sync

i always thought android was the next best thing and i still think that based on all the different builds i got to try on this forum. some of you are amazingly talented and dedicated for doing what you do.
however, there is one thing that was been annoying me to no ends and I can't seem to find a solution for it so i am turning to the community for some help.
i use gmail a lot and i am also married to my exchange account. i use my exchange email, calendar and tasks. i can't stop using them or my life will fall apart due to all the stuff going on... i got the contacts and the calendar to sync somewhat but i just can't figure out how to sync my tasks!
i imported parts of my contacts to my gmail account and i am syncing my exchange calendar to google calendar using google calendar sync but i can't figure out how to sync my tasks with android. can you please share if you know how to keep everything in sync?? i am literally at the verge of giving up on android completely and going back to windows mobile because i can't figure this out...

Google does not support task syncing with exchange.
At the moment they only support Calendar and contacts and email.

detour522 said:
i am literally at the verge of giving up on android completely and going back to windows mobile because i can't figure this out...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
There are several apps and builds which support full exchange sync (email, calendar, contacts) but only two paid apps support + tasks syncing: Touchdown Pro and Moxier Mail. I have great experience working Moxier and i would recommend that you try out that.

If you are willing to pay, this will handle tasks on Android:
http://www.nitrodesk.com/dk_touchdownScreenshots.aspx
There is a free trial in the marketplace for it if you want to try it out. Personally I think it is kinda crappy - if it were free or a couple bucks then whatever, but since we have the option of WinMo or Android if you really need tasks then it is best to stick with WinMo for now.
I've seen rumors that Google is working on task support so we shall see how it looks in Android 3 or whatever...

android and exchange tasks

Well , since android/htc cant synchronise exchange tasks.. Is there a tool that only does this job?
I found roadsync and touchdown , but those apps are complete for email/calendar ...
I just need a tool that can synchronise tasks with exchange 2003 and up
Any1?

I was looking at that too, and I didn't find anything. I decided to use K9mail for my exchange/mail (using IMAP), the HTC stock apps synchronize contacts and calendar.
For tasks, since I didn't find anything good standalone, I set up my tasks in Toodledo and I am using the Got To Do app for that - seems to work great so far. I then dropped using tasks in Exchange.
An alternative, if you are stuck with Exchange for some reason, is to use a service which synchs with that or with Outlook, like the Remember The Milk "MilkSync" app, and then to use a RTM app on your phone.

hey, thnx for the answer... i am stuck @ exchange, because i need it for work...
i also tried remember the milk .... it was working ok.
but remeber the milk costs 25$ a year + you need client software to sync the tasks in outlook.... so i decided to buy RoadSync , it only costs 10$ 1 time, i only use that tool to sync tasks...
I hope 2.3 will bring tasks

When I get an email or a specific task in an exchange email (and i use native exchange sync which you guys should have already! (why are you using 3rd party apps?? exchange gets to my phone a FULL five minutes before it ever shows up on my computer) I do this -
i copy the task from my exchange email and paste it into google tasks. (using either FF or Chrome extensions) And I am done. I open one of the many gtask apps available on the market, (all of them work fine) and its right there, synced automatically, and basically works beautifully.
alternatively and I do this as well as insurance...
i have a gmail account dedicated to work. My exchange forwards every single email to my work gmail account. So I have a perfect copy of my whole Exchange inbox (more perfect -- I have all 75,000 emails in gmail whereas my IT guy will break my kneecaps if I dont delete all but the last couple months of emails from my exchange (i never delete because no matter what, i may need that email 3-5 months down the road) So the work gmail is like a "shadow" of my business email and even better --- nobody knows about it or understands it, so if I were to be fired today... they would think they have cut me off, but I have effectively backed up 5 years of stuff I could use as evidence should I be liable for anything. (Nixon Tapes)
getting back to tasks...
in gmail labs... you can easily create tasks right from gmail. And once you do... you are done. You go out on the road....and your task will be right there waiting for you. It is so foolproof. I do some pretty crazy fieldwork and google tasks has saved my job time and time again and is one of the reasons I have become a slut for google.
it gets even better with Google Apps for Business... oy vey!
I also know there is a way to sync the exchange task protocol with google but it is complicated and is onlh possible when your IT guy is sympathetic to the google movement.
I think you guys are going the hard way about this -- the answer is to simply transfer whatever tasks you have into gtasks, and its effortless.
Another example -- I get an important VIP ASAP exchange email. I forward that email to my work gmail account which has the right labs enabled and type only "STAR TASK" and send it... that email goes to my work gmail and the "STAR TASK" provokes gmail to also create a task out of it. That gtask is right there on my phone. so easy --its a "ya gotta see it to believe it" deal.

thnx for the info