Database Users

X1 vs Touch HD

I'm nearly at the end of my contract for my T-mobile vario II. It looks like my next phone will either be the X1 or the touch HD. I read a lot of ebooks and web pages so the bigger screen is going to be great.
I like the fact that the X1 has a slide out keyboard and dpad. These should help when writing emails or playing games. However the simpler package of the Touch HD does look very nice.
One thing that sucked about the vario II was the sluggish interface - from the few videos I have watched the HD seems a bit slicker than the X1 - am I right?
If possible I would like to install android on my next device - is this more likely to be possible on the HD?
So what are your views - which is better?

Mercedes or BMW.
Two similar but quite different animals.
Need the keyboard... X1
Need no keyboard .. T' HD
It's simply a choice only. Some point or other.. a HardSPL and cooking of roms will be well underway.. along with a vast choice of rom shape and size, along with inbuilts. The only thing that will not change is the Hardware shape. (guts are the same)
The Touch HD is not even out properly, and the HD manilla is already available and installable on the X1. the Sony panels will no doubt hit the Touch HD.
I have bought 2 X1's..along with an Omnia... Will get a HD also.. but this is because i'm a picky sod.. and have money to pee away.
Please don't tell my wife!.

Well the Touch HD is technically using HTC's "2nd" version of TouchFlo3D, after Diamond/TPro, so understandably they've put some effort into getting it to run more smoothly. SE's panels will debut on the X1 so it's probably buggy just like TouchFlo3D was when the Diamond first came out.
That said, XDA got even the stock Diamond interface running really well, so there's no reason they can't do it with the X1's panels. It's not a question of if but when.
I think if you're going to reading most of the time, the HD will be the better choice (bigger screen, and you dont "need" a hardware keyboard to read). But I must say if you do a fair amount of messaging, a real keyboard is second to none -- there's just no going back after you've used one (imo).
As for Android, only time will tell. My guess is yes for both, but it might not be fully functional for some time. There are just too many unknowns right now for there to be an easy answer.

harvsingh said:
Mercedes or BMW.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
For me the answer to that one was BMW!
harvsingh said:
I have bought 2 X1's..along with an Omnia... Will get a HD also.. but this is because i'm a picky sod.. and have money to pee away.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you are so flush with cash feel free to mail me one of the X1's!
fhseih - I do read a lot and the physical size of the screen on the touch hd would be very nice for that. However the actual resolution of the X1 is the same so it should be almost as good in that respect. As you say, once you get used to the keyboard you never go back. I have got used to having a keyboard on my vario II. I love the way that you can type without wasting screen space on a virtual keyboard.
Maybe what I really want is a Touch HD Pro - any rumors that we will see one of these soon?

-Matt- said:
For me the answer to that one was BMW!
If you are so flush with cash feel free to mail me one of the X1's!
fhseih - I do read a lot and the physical size of the screen on the touch hd would be very nice for that. However the actual resolution of the X1 is the same so it should be almost as good in that respect. As you say, once you get used to the keyboard you never go back. I have got used to having a keyboard on my vario II. I love the way that you can type without wasting screen space on a virtual keyboard.
Maybe what I really want is a Touch HD Pro - any rumors that we will see one of these soon?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Even though i have capital... and enough to buy a handset i want when i want it on the network i choose to be with.. i am certainly no charity.. so i'm sorry.. if the second x1 goes anywhere its back to supplier... and get a HD instead.
I think getting a Touch HD pro is pointless.. HD is such because its not bulky. Its slim and basically a screen with a send and end key.
Adding a keyboard to it = not a Touch HD Pro but a X1.
Lack of G-sensor on X1 is the thing i think when it comes to using different roms and software. Hardware apart from this and keyb is the same. (except screen size...res is the same)
I think... i will keep one x1 and get a HD...
that way.. i'm covered.
Really wish the DX900 Glofiish had been released... 2 sim cards... one phone with VGA/GPS/WIFI/Bluetooth/3G/HSDPA .. but as yet.. its just due... due .. and due....
who could want more?

Blackstone or Raphael? Thoughts...

The time has come to relegate my trusty Hermes to the nearest bin. This means - upgrade time.
Now, unlike some of you, I do not have the luxury of trying out both of these to make up my mind. So, I'd like to hear some thoughts on those of you who has had to give up their Touch Pro keyboards for the more clumsy Touch HD on-screen text input.
Getting the Touch HD is a no brainer in every way, except one. I can't imagine giving up my sliding keyboard. Yes, I'm currently leaning towards getting the Touch Pro.
Thoughts? rants & raves? and shuttefu%^&up about iphones please.

As an owner of both I say get the HD. I loved my Raphael so dont get me wrong. I do a decent amount of typing and the HD keyboard seems very responsive. If you are doing a ton of typing there is really no substitute for a hard keyboard but the HD isnt far off. Out of the box the HD runs much better than the raphael did but there are plenty of custom ROMs out there that solve this for the raphael so not really an issue. One plus abotu the raphael is that there are tons of customizations but youc an expet that from the HD cookers out there in the coming weeks.
Again, i say get the HD. Its hard ot beat the screen on it and typing is actually pretty easy. I like the power button and volume buttons more on the HD as well. you dont accidently press them the way you will on the raphael. The other buttons on the HD are really nice as well because they do not actually press like the raphael does. It gives a little vibrate when you press them which is a suprisingly great feature. Oh yeah, don forget about the 5mp camera. It takes wonderful pics as long as you are in decent light.
Lastly, everyone that has seen my HD is blown away. When they saw my raphael they mostly said "thats nice, a little too think for me but nice"

mallman said:
As an owner of both I say get the HD. I loved my Raphael so dont get me wrong. I do a decent amount of typing and the HD keyboard seems very responsive. If you are doing a ton of typing there is really no substitute for a hard keyboard but the HD isnt far off. Out of the box the HD runs much better than the raphael did but there are plenty of custom ROMs out there that solve this for the raphael so not really an issue. One plus abotu the raphael is that there are tons of customizations but youc an expet that from the HD cookers out there in the coming weeks.
Again, i say get the HD. Its hard ot beat the screen on it and typing is actually pretty easy. I like the power button and volume buttons more on the HD as well. you dont accidently press them the way you will on the raphael. The other buttons on the HD are really nice as well because they do not actually press like the raphael does. It gives a little vibrate when you press them which is a suprisingly great feature. Oh yeah, don forget about the 5mp camera. It takes wonderful pics as long as you are in decent light.
Lastly, everyone that has seen my HD is blown away. When they saw my raphael they mostly said "thats nice, a little too think for me but nice"
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
WOW the most usefull review of all
thx again, and when my back account allow it , I might buy HD

I've still have my Touch Pro. I opted to buy the Touch HD for one big reason...Screen size bigger than the iPhone on a WM device! I'm tired of dealing with the limited space of a 2.8" screen. I've always been a fan of hardware keyboards, but the Touch HD has a nice virtual keyboard and with a program like gyrator 2 or gsen you can rotate your HD into landscape and stretch out the virtual keyboard for more room.
Also the GPS performance is better on the Touch HD.....the Touch Pro and Diamonds performance is crappy..its lags way too much and takes longer to get a fix. Now the AT&T Fuze may have this solved, but unless you have AT&T and live in the US its not really an option.
I think for any one who has been lusting over the idea of having an iPhone, but would never give up Windows Mobile can now rest at ease.
Just my two cents.

I have also used both, and I can say , on any given day , I would take HD.
HD screen is the best thing and the keyboard is also very good on it.Once , the custom roms comes from the likes of senior people like Dutty , Panosha and others, I am sure the HD will fly like a rocket.
Go for HD. I sold my rapheal already.

utvol06 said:
I've still have my Touch Pro. I opted to buy the Touch HD for one big reason...Screen size bigger than the iPhone on a WM device! I'm tired of dealing with the limited space of a 2.8" screen. I've always been a fan of hardware keyboards, but the Touch HD has a nice virtual keyboard and with a program like gyrator 2 or gsen you can rotate your HD into landscape and stretch out the virtual keyboard for more room.
Also the GPS performance is better on the Touch HD.....the Touch Pro and Diamonds performance is crappy..its lags way too much and takes longer to get a fix. Now the AT&T Fuze may have this solved, but unless you have AT&T and live in the US its not really an option.
I think for any one who has been lusting over the idea of having an iPhone, but would never give up Windows Mobile can now rest at ease.
Just my two cents.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Now that you have the HD could you compare the GPS performance with Touch Pro?
Give us numbers.... How many seconds to get a fix and the GPS "lag".

speed200 said:
Now that you have the HD could you compare the GPS performance with Touch Pro?
Give us numbers.... How many seconds to get a fix and the GPS "lag".
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'll report after testing this afternoon.

utvol06 said:
I'll report after testing this afternoon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thank you, all of us will be awaiting for it.
Best regards.

In the last 3 months, I have owned a Diamond, Raphael and an HD. The Diamond came first and was lovely to use but the screen was too small to type effectively. So I bought a Raphael - which i used for work but it was just too thick - it ruins the cut of a suit!
Then along came the HD. The screen is just beautiful. Crucially, it is also large enough to type effectively. Don't get me wrong, it is not as effective as typing on a keyboard (such as on the Raphael) but unless you're doing a lot of typing, that doesn't matter. I still do a reasonable amount of email and the screen keyboard on the HD is large enough to cope.
The HD also runs more responsively than the Diamond or Raph. It doesn't suffer the Raph's GPS lag (I never had lag on the Diamond). And did I mention that screen???!!!
Disappointments with the HD? Not many yet. The camera is unquestionably way too slow and nowhere near as good as, eg, the N95 (which my wife has). The lack of D-Pad takes a bit of getting used to but all it really means is getting used to a different way of working as we're all so used to the DPad. I haven't yet found any software where it causes a major problem.
My final answer? Both my Raph and my Diamond are on ebay right now.

dito
yeah, my tilt and fuze have both sold on Ebay, I like my Touch HD. I am looking forward to using a different onscreen keyboard than the one provided in the stock ROM. I don't like that they wasted space by putting directional buttons on the right hand side. There is one available on a particular ROM downloaded from this site, but i suspect there will be more WVGA keyboards. I used to have a 6600 which had like a 3" screen or something, a wee bit larger than the tilt and that was a really nice phone actually, it just lacked the new juicier hardware. The Touch HD really brings out the sexy in HTC. No overweight short, fat, ugly phone, its tall and sleek and slim and sexy, lol! Just another thought: The Touch Pro can be had for about $500 without a contract and even FREE with a contract if you pull the right strings! However, the Touch HD is nearly $800 and there is no ifs ands or buts about it. You gotta pay for the best and its not really supported by AT&T or the retailers that sell it here in the US and is only barely supported by HTC in US. And, the insurance companies dont know much about it. All this makes for a riskier investment especially considering that some peoples HD vibrate breaks and they have to send it back . (moment of silence please). Yeah its a little scary for me right now. I think I might have it under control! If I were you and I had wee bit of money, I would go for the HD, its what the really cool people have, lol
Just a few thoughts,
Levi

I had a very cherished Tytn II (kaiser) before the recent HD.
I was really excited about the huge screen and higher resolution but the lack of a hard keyboard really put me off. Another huge aspect that put me off was the fract that straight out of the box you cant rotate to landscape mode. I've had my tytn ii in landscape mode permenantly for ever a year now and thats how I like it. The optical layout is very similar to wide screen TVs and monitors. Any how, I found a way to keep it in landscapde mode (look for my thread called landscape view +solved+.
I tried typing in full qwerty and compact qwerty mode in portrait screen but it just wasnt the same (or even close) to a large keyboard. So I resorted to trying to type in landscapde mode using full qwerty and it was just as good as the tytn ii keyboard. Snailslug's wonderful app called touch response made it even better. His app added little vibration feedback (haptic I believe is the term) to touching the screen. So using the virtual keyboard is much more predictable if you can imagine.

.VIBE said:
The time has come to relegate my trusty Hermes to the nearest bin. This means - upgrade time.
Now, unlike some of you, I do not have the luxury of trying out both of these to make up my mind. So, I'd like to hear some thoughts on those of you who has had to give up their Touch Pro keyboards for the more clumsy Touch HD on-screen text input.
Getting the Touch HD is a no brainer in every way, except one. I can't imagine giving up my sliding keyboard. Yes, I'm currently leaning towards getting the Touch Pro.
Thoughts? rants & raves? and shuttefu%^&up about iphones please.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have tested both and I can say, being a Universal Super keyboard user, that HD is almost perfect but the lack of physical keyboard stop me to buy it, a Physical Kb will never be beaten for any fantastic on screen virtual Kb.
So if I had to decide for any of those being the only options I would choose Touch Pro because the Kb, even with that fantastic super screen of the HD.
Or dreaming a little bit I would wait for the upcoming HD touch Pro....
Iphone? Never in my life!!

I've had both on hand: Touch PRO and HD. And now i am really satisfied with HD compared to what I've been with Raphael. I've been considered so much before change from Raph to HD. I'd been with Raph for a month and swapped with many ROMs and radios (only Raphael radio) before making a decision to switch to HD... Beyond all of Raphael's pros is its crappy BATTERY LIFE
It only lasts for a day with full charge on my usage (compared to the same usage with HD). The GPS is so bad, could not fix as fast as my Polaris.
I have to say I'm really disappointed with Raph as I thought it could be another king replaced for the Kaiser...
Go to HD then you will have no regret and waste !

as a TyTN owner.. i thought of getting a raphael.. but looking at them.. they dont have many differences.. ok the vga screen.. the looks etc.. overall though its the exact same device pumped up..
besides.. im a more of a techie gadget guy.. the raphael doesnt come close to the HD from my point of view.. the raphael is a more bussiness man type of device rather the HD is the more
show off device.. get the HD you wont regret it!
cheers!

I too have upgraded from a Kaiser to the Touch HD.
Bit of a no-brainer for me as I found I hardly ever used the slide-out keyboard on the Kaiser. The basic WM keyboard has always been a fast method of entering text for me, particularly with the help of predicitve text and gesture recognition.
Spb Keyboard is meeting my needs for basic text entry on the HD. If I need to do a serious amount of text entry the stylus comes out and I use the standard WM keyboard again. With practise I think this is a pretty fast and accurate way of entering text.
Just in case it hasn't sunk in (!), the screen on the HD is FANTASTIC! Web browsing is excellent. The extra screen space and resolution is also fantastic in Pocket Informant agenda view. And mobile shell is great on the bigger screen.
As someone's said above, lack of D-pad is an issue to start with but only because you have to re-learn how to use your favourite programmes. After a while it's fine.
Setting up haptic feedback is a good thing.
I'm really looking forward to seeing what WinMo developers will do next year to tweak their software for the HD. It's good at the moment but could be more finger-friendly in places. Eg I know the next version of Pocket Informant will be more finger-friendly. Hopefully other developers will head in this direction too.

What about US 3G on ATT...
blacksage said:
...its not really supported by AT&T or the retailers that sell it here in the US and is only barely supported by HTC in US....
Just a few thoughts,
Levi
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
According to the service manual (http://mikechannon.net/PDF%20Manuals/HTC_Blackstone_Service_Manual.pdf) the US ATT 850 and 1900 HSDPA/UMTS bands are supported.
The original specs showed no support for these bands -- but now????
Are you getting 3G speeds in the US???

Changing from Touch Diamond to Touch HD - is it worth it?

Hi all,
did anyone of you the step from HTC Diamond to the new Touch HD?
Apart from the obvious, technical differences: What is your opinion? Is it better? Is the handling the same or do you feel a difference (e.g. performance?).
What is your experience with the new Buttons at the bottom?
Thanks for any input.
Rgds
Kingshill

I'd like to know the answer to this too. I have a diamond and am not sure wether its worth the £500. Is it reallly worth it? Some people think we're mad anyway shelling out hundreds for a telephone especialy when you've got one. Maybe we need councilling?

I wonder as well if I should change. What I really love on the Diamond is the size. And the HD is big in my opinion. Sure it's nice with the big screen etc.
If the HD would have TV-out, ok, but I don't see real big advantage on the HD. Sure performance is better, but I think I will wait for the next HTC Device with probably WM 6.5.

From my point of view, the HD offers to solve all of the problems the diamond had - i.e lack of expandable memory, poor battery and tiny screen.
I managed to sell my diamond on ebay for £320. A mate of mine in trade can get me the HD at the trade price of £460. So thats an HD for £140.
HD doesnt arrive until mid week - will let you all know then.

I have the diamond (actually a t-mobile mda compact iv) as a work phone, and have just bought the HD to replace my personal tytn.
I actually see them as two different phones, for two very different purposes. The HD is a great recreational phone, while still allowing me to be connected to my business services. It's great for browsing and using as a controller for my home automation system. Essentially because of the size of the screen (bear in mind the hardware of the two devices is almost identical).
The HD I would be nervous about taking for a night out, or with me to play sport, or when travelling - it's too awkward to handle and keep safe in demanding circumstances, and increases the risk of breakage. Whereas the diamond is an ideal size and easily protectable in harsher environments.
It is a shame that neither phone has a point to attach a lanyard. This is particularly unfortunate for the HD because sometimes handling it, particularly when removing the case, really does not feel safe.

SOLSchweiz said:
I wonder as well if I should change. What I really love on the Diamond is the size. And the HD is big in my opinion. Sure it's nice with the big screen etc.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I have to agree. After the Diamond, the Touch HD feels H-U-G-E. I've had the HD for a week and I'm still surprised by the size very time I pick it up. My ideal device is same form factor as Diamond, but with larger full-front screen. Don't need the D-pad. Apart from the marvellous THD screen, I appreciate the longer battery life.

AFW said:
I have to agree. After the Diamond, the Touch HD feels H-U-G-E. I've had the HD for a week and I'm still surprised by the size very time I pick it up. My ideal device is same form factor as Diamond, but with larger full-front screen. Don't need the D-pad. Apart from the marvellous THD screen, I appreciate the longer battery life.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Ha ha, for me the feeling is the oppsite. After Athena's 5 inch screen, Touch HD feels tiny. I would be happier if it is 4.5 inch. It makes all the difference in internet surfing, spreadsheet, word processing, picture viewing, and video watching.

I went from Diamond to HD (still have the Diamond as a backup)
Observations/reasons;
LOVE the look/feel of the HD (I liked my iPhone in this regard as well - just hated far too many aspects of it...) and ultimately I want to get Android onto it....hopefully!!
Diamond always niggled me in that it had a tiny screen so was fiddly for touch/finger control (I avoid stylus operation as much as possible - it's fiddly and annoying). Also that there was no mSD card option/expandabilty. O/S was sluggish and slow compared to the HD (especially TouchFlo - which is noticeably faster on the HD)
Aesthetically - IMO the HD gets it hands down over the diamond (and any other phone out there, including the iPhone!)
The Diamond is handy if you like small phones and aren't very demanding on performance, but otherwise the HD is a better performing tool all round.
Battery life on the HD seems quite comparable with the Diamond - in actual fact possibly slightly better (the Diamond battery life was pretty grim)
Just my thoughts/opinions

The HD is better then the Diamond
Bigger Screen
Responsive Screen
Expandable memory
More Ram
Better Battery Life
All in all the TF3D is alot more quicker and responsive then the Diamond, and currently im using a stock rom, so imagine when there are cooked roms for this.
I would recommend you get this phone
I havent touched my Diamond since i got it
and now im selling my Diamond

i have the both, and i think HD is better than diamond on all point except dimension but it is not a real probleme because you can put hd in your pocket too.

I also have both and I must admit it´s a BIG change... The screen´s great, the battery life much improved and the touch screen a pleasure to use... but it feels much bigger in the hand than the Diamond. I have to agree with AFW the ideal would be Diamond size but without the D Pad but out of the two I´ll be sticking with the HD
Can´t wait to start cooking.... this baby will fly!

Thanks chaps - I will spent the money and get one asap.....

Would anyone still get an HD rather than an HD2?

Being smaller and offering a resistive screen plus still being a good phone are there any advantages of the HD over the HD2?

Hokum said:
Being smaller and offering a resistive screen plus still being a good phone are there any advantages of the HD over the HD2?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
woooop another manc i only got my HD like 2 weeks ago, upgraded from my touch diamond, i cudnt afford a HD2, so i got the next best thing lol

I too have a diamond, the reason i'm interested is that i'm outdoors ALOT! So a cap screen is rubbish with gloves on.
I could go for a S200 or TG01 but XDA DEV have no support for these. So a nearly new HD is tempting, but the performance of the HD will be no better than my Diamond other then the extra memory...
There are a few of us Mancs about

i have maybe 50% free ram, when using my HD and thats running Sence 2.5, on the diamond tho it soon shot up to like 20-30% free ram only using TF3D 2.1, but on the other hand, even tho the HD has a higher resolution, things looked alot sharper on the diamond, maybe cuz of its smaller screen size, i like being able to use a sd card tho, im not limited to 4gb like on the diamond and the large screen is gr8 for watching movies, The HD dosent offer that much more than the diamond tho so yeah the HD 2 is the better choice if you can afford it lol I could of got a TGO1 for £200 pound, £35 pound less than i paid for my HD, They got em in the fone shop nr picadilly station in town if you want one lol

Near the train station or those near Picadilly Gardens (bus station)? A TG01 would be tempting.

Near the train station, its just at the top off the hill, they got hundreds of fones in the windows, theres another site floating about called wmdevelopers or sumat, its ment to be like xda but for other wm devices, you'll be able to upgrade a tgo1 there i assume

I'd say you wait for some time -- see what comes out and maybe there will be something even better than HD2!!
As for me (a Touch HD owner) I wont go for HD2, because:
1) it has snapdragon - I was waiting for Tegra
2) There are some rumors about Tegra2 (two times more powerful than Tegra)
3) Im saving some money for a Yamaha WR125X , so I cant afford to spend it on a new phone, of which I will get bored after a few weeks
4) I've also heard some rumors about Toshiba next models (those after TG01) -same snapdragon cpu, but some nice features like 3speakers (good for me as Im a melomaniac)

if i didnot own touch HD already i would be sure to buy HD2. now for me there is no significant advantage of upgrading

right...i have a HD and cannot wait to get my hands on the HD2...im using a custom rom by L26 which uses the Leo interface. using half the power of the HD2, the Leo interface is bearable, very usable actually, however i can just tell that some of the nags will not be an issue with the extra 500Mhtz of processing power and double ram the HD2 will have. i think using my HD as a backup phone will surfice!
=D

I use a stylus almost 100% of the time so will not be buying an HD2.
More likely to get the acer, even after a bad experience with an F900, it's smaller, has better battery life, look's to be a bit faster and is far cheaper.
Couldn't care less about TF3D or sense.
My HD is OK for the moment, I would have preferred them to just change out the crappy msm7201 for snapragon, make the screen "a lot" more sensitive like the S200 apparently is, leave the rest alone.
The HD2 is a windows mobile iphone because of it's input and has no appeal to me because of it,I can barely stand not having a d-pad, let alone no stylus.

imo a resistive screen with a stylus is better on a finger-unfriendly windows mobile, isn't it?

simplistian said:
imo a resistive screen with a stylus is better on a finger-unfriendly windows mobile, isn't it?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Absolutely. There are all sorts of threads on the Leo forums where people are having real problems with the capacitive screen, and having to practice hard for a couple of weeks before they get the hang of just typing with the standard keyboard.
Also some folk are finding that the capacitive screen is registering all sorts of crazy inputs when they're not even touching it. Someone's got a hack hat seems to improve things, but I would say wait till WM7 comes out, and HTC have sorted their screen technology/sensitivity.
If the HD2 was resistive I'd buy it without hesitation.

Moandal said:
Absolutely. There are all sorts of threads on the Leo forums where people are having real problems with the capacitive screen, and having to practice hard for a couple of weeks before they get the hang of just typing with the standard keyboard.
Also some folk are finding that the capacitive screen is registering all sorts of crazy inputs when they're not even touching it. Someone's got a hack hat seems to improve things, but I would say wait till WM7 comes out, and HTC have sorted their screen technology/sensitivity.
If the HD2 was resistive I'd buy it without hesitation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I'd like to think issues between Microsoft and HTC would be resolved with wm7...........but if I was a betting man I'd bet that it would just cause more issues!!

Unfortunately for me (in the US) I have to wait until a branded version comes out. My Touch HD 8585 gets me 3G for now.

Fallen Spartan said:
I'd like to think issues between Microsoft and HTC would be resolved with wm7...........but if I was a betting man I'd bet that it would just cause more issues!!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
most "issues" are solved by XDA, not them

Moandal said:
Absolutely. There are all sorts of threads on the Leo forums where people are having real problems with the capacitive screen, and having to practice hard for a couple of weeks before they get the hang of just typing with the standard keyboard.
Also some folk are finding that the capacitive screen is registering all sorts of crazy inputs when they're not even touching it. Someone's got a hack hat seems to improve things, but I would say wait till WM7 comes out, and HTC have sorted their screen technology/sensitivity.
If the HD2 was resistive I'd buy it without hesitation.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
take in mind when u first brought the blackstone u had to get used to it just as well as any other phone u will buy in the future

wingtytn said:
take in mind when u first brought the blackstone u had to get used to it just as well as any other phone u will buy in the future
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
when we first bought the blackstone we are surprised by the huge screen which enabled some finger operations on the finger unfriendly windows mobile, but, whenever you need a stylus, you got an option at least. Not really need to go over a learning and compromising process to get used to it.

simplistian said:
most "issues" are solved by XDA, not them
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Touché, I would tend to agree with you on this

Yep. The 4.3" Screen is just too big - not pocket friendly at all. That and the capacitive screen...

I would personally love to trade my HD for an HD2. The HD2 has a larger screen, led flash and most importantly: a 1ghz cpu... too bad it is not going to happen

Anyone upgraded to HD2/Leo from HD/Blackstone?

I currently have a touch HD/Blackstone and I love it to bits, but the prospect of having a capacitive multitouch screen and much faster responses when navigating round the phone/opening/running apps etc is starting to tempt me very strongly to the HD2/Leo.
Have any of you Leo owners upgraded from the Blackstone? If so, please can you let me know your thoughts on whether it was a good move, what the pros & cons are etc, and whether the new phone really is super fast and slick like the reviews I've read say it is.
If I get one I'd probably want to be running SPB shell on it, which from looking through here I assume it works, but will most apps for the blackstone also work on the Leo?
I know there's no stylus with the Leo for instance, but for fiddly stuff does the screen accept the use of a fingernail for 'precision' (ish!) stuff like checkboxes & small menus, or does it have to be skin contact or a real capacitive stylus etc?
Regardless of whether you upgraded from a Blackstone, are you very pleased with the way the phone works in terms of performance and 'slickness'?
Last questions are - what's the video performance like on the Leo, ie does it have all the problems the HD has in terms of poor out of the box performance with video playback?
And is the bluetooth stuff still hardcoded for the HTC music player (like the blackstone), or would I be able to properly use my sony bluetooth headset to control the likes of coreplayer?
Sorry for all the questions - I really want to upgrade to the Leo, but it will cost me a lot and I don't want to make a mistake.
Many thanks for any useful replies!
Jim

After having the Touch HD for 2 month I really loved it. Everything was running as I wanted it to be ... But then HTC announced the HD2 and I decided to switch to it after watching lots of videos in youtube an other sites. I would do it again ...
I don't have any problems using the OS without a stylus. In fact I wasn't using the stylus or my fingernails on my Touch HD either. I only needed to adapt to the higher screen responsiveness, but that was it.
HD2 pros compared to the Touch HD:
+ MUCH higher build quality. The Touch HD always felt somehow cheap, except it actually wasn't ...
+ Everything is just faster. I wasn't too thrilled with TouchFLO 3D on the Touch HD, as it slowed down the device too much. No problems on the HD2, although the new version of TouchFLO 3D (Sense ...) grew in so many aspects and is now pretty well integrated into the OS.
+ The bigger screen. Didn't thing its a big deal, but the screen-difference between the two devices is astonishing. Its much more fun to use multimediacontent on the HD2.
+ Pinch to Zoom.

I had a HD for nearly a year now and loved it - yes, TF3D ran slowly but it also was more "form than function" and I stopped using it in favour of simple SPB Diary with multiple tabs.
Now having a HD2 for over a month I do love the high speed and slick operation and I even stick with TF3D (or HTC Sense, whatever it's called).
But, there are apps from HD that don't run well on the screen as they expect the precision of a stylus. One example is SPB Finance that I used to record all my expenditures on an almost daily business. This just does not work with a big fat finger !
But, but others work great - CoPilot works really nicely. I tried Route66 on the HD2 as this was a fully legal working purchase on the HD but on the new HD2 it's not good. Nice surprise is the new CoPilot works really well and super fast. Even indoors near a window I can get enough satellites for a 3D fix and moving next to the window gets 7 or 8 sats. HD never achieved that.
My build quality on the HD was fine. On the HD2 you get a real solid feel from the metal battery cover where you naturally hold the device.
HD2 is super quick but the capacitive screen is a weakness. However, this is because most applications have not yet caught up. Many exist that are great with fingers like Resco explorer but others expect a stylus and are hard to use.
As a year long HD user I doubt very much that I won't move back after having got the HD2. My old HD is sitting in a box and I have not been tempted to get it out !

Thanks for the replies guys - I like what I hear!
I think the only thing that might delay me upgrading to an HD2 is the difference in value between selling HD and buying HD2 but we'll see....
Can you clarify a couple of things I'm still not sure about though?
Dave - you said you can't use certain apps from the HD because of the capacitive screen as you don't have a stylus with it (and can't use a normal one I believe), but is it possible to use these apps with a finger nail if you really need to?
I know it might be awkward or not very practical, but I want to know whether it's actually possible at all, ie if the screen will physically work like that, or if it's literally impossible to do?
Secondly (don't get me wrong here) whilst I don't want an iphone, is the responsiveness of the HD2 screen the same kind of thing? Local shops here don't have one I can try so I have to go by what others tell me, and I'd like it to work as smooth as the iphone screen, ie no actual pressure etc.
I know it's capacitive so it should be like that but I don't know if there are differences aside from that to how the screen responds. Hope that makes sense!
Last question - I believe the screen is glass on it? Is it toughened in any way? Presume the fact that it's glass will mean that it's much harder to scratch than the HD screen and also means a clearer, brighter display by not having a resistive layer?
Thanks for the replies - I appreciate the info!

I'll try again but I don't think finger nails work ...

I upgraded from the Blackstone and for me, it was definitely worth it.
First thing you notice is the amazing speed if the device. I just saw that I had TomTom (among a couple of other programs) running in the background for several days and I didn't even notice it.
The HD2 is really insanely fast. I sometimes take my old Blackstone in order to try new WM builds, but its slowness makes me sick after some minutes of using it.
Next big thing, for me, is the camera. The light sensitivity has been greatly improved and the flash works stunningly good for an LED flash.
It takes really great pictures for a smartphone, much much better than the HD, finally I have a phone that lets me capture the important moments
(btw. the 'red tint bug' is present but not noticeable on most pictures)
Third thing is the screen. It''s capacitive, that means you can NOT use your fingernail, and no stylus. But I really like the sensitivity, it's much more comfortable to use. And it feels a lot better, it's not the 'cheap' feel of the resistive panel's plastic layers anymore.
And this brings me to the fourth and last point: Build quality. I've never ever seen such a high build quality and high quality materials on a phone. It looks and feels just amazing, even the iPhone feels like a cheap toy in comparison.
Video playback is of course a lot better and it plays high quality video without stuttering.

Well actualy you can use stylus without problems, you just have to buy a special one (whitch buy the way also works on the iPhone)
http://cgi.ebay.com/2x-DAGi-Stylus-...wItemQQptZPDA_Accessories?hash=item414b467e4a
Like they other says there are applications who can be a bit of a hassel with using with the finger...
But I suspect you would love it... I could newer go back to my HD after being used to the buitiful racer the HD2 is, and i absolutely love the screen to.

Hi,
I've spent 1 week with the HD2 after a year on the HD. Mobile Shell 3.5 on both.
The main difference is speed. HD2 is soooo much faster. Didn't notice the HD was particularly slow whilst I was using it, but going back to it now is PAINFUL.
I struggled a bit initially with the capacitive screen, found it a bit hit and miss. In particular I found the HTC keyboard a nightmare, way too sensitive. Installing the .cab that decreases screen sensitivity has improved things greatly, and installing Spb Keyboard has also helped. It's improving with practice, there are still times when I do something and it doesn't register, but overall I'm starting to like it. There's a definite knack to it: much lighter touch, smoother motions. So there's a learning curve here + a need to tweak. And I'm sure the experience will continue to improve as third party software is adapted for it.
Mobile Shell has a few minor compatability issues but nothing to worry about (screen brightness control doesn't work, voicemail indicator widget doesn't work, a few other minor things). Spb are generally good at updating for significant new hardware releases, same thing happened with the HD when it was first released and they fixed everything quickly. I tried the Sense interface for a day or two to see if I could get used to it, it IS very pretty. But went back to Mobile Shell, I find it much more functional.
The HD2 build quality is excellent vs good for HD. And the additional screen size is a significant plus too. I was initially worried it would be a step too far in terms of the overall size of the device, but no. As soon as I laid eyes on the actual device + picked it up I knew it wouldn't be a problem.
Browsing in Opera is fantastic. Fast and the big screen helps. Still not comparable to a desktop browsing experience but very usable and way better than the HD due to the speed.
Overall it's a big step forward from the HD and highly recommended. Like I said, I find going back to the HD to dig out a few files I need to be surprisingly painful...

Cret said:
Secondly (don't get me wrong here) whilst I don't want an iphone, is the responsiveness of the HD2 screen the same kind of thing? Local shops here don't have one I can try so I have to go by what others tell me, and I'd like it to work as smooth as the iphone screen, ie no actual pressure etc.
I know it's capacitive so it should be like that but I don't know if there are differences aside from that to how the screen responds. Hope that makes sense!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
I tested the HD2 besides both, an 3G and 3GS, and really couldn't find any real difference in the screens responsiveness. You don't have to do any pressure on the HD2's screen ... I have to say, that I had a problem with the high sensitivity at first, but when playing around with an Nokia N900 last week, I noticed how fast I adapted to the capacitive screen of the HD2. The N900's screen was a pain in the ass (although its actually quite good for a resistive screen), because slight fingerswipes and tips didn't to anything ...
When browsing the forums you will notice, that most ppl here have/had a problem with the keyboard of the HD2. Besides the bugreporting here (I don't have any of these problems), I imagine that most of the problems with the keyboard just come from the unfamiliar sensitivity. By lifting the fingers a little higher when typing, I managed to type pretty accurate.
I don't have a Touch HD to compare side by side, but had the possibility to compare the HD2 to an iPhone 3G ... the 3G was very slow compared to the HD2 ... So wouldn't really go back to a last-gen phone ...

Had a Touch HD for a year until i bought my HD2 last month.
I Had Dutty's Leo rom running since he started releasing those, so I felt completely at home with my HD2 when i had it in my hand. (For those not knowing : Leo rom for Touch HD is just that. Winmo 6.5 running HTC Sense, just like the HD2)
A few things felt wonderfully different tho :
Screen is beautifull. The glas type used is almost impossible to scratch. I have my phone in my pocket unprotected. Even accedently slipped my keys in with it a few times. Not a mark on it! What is this screen made of ? Diamond ??
Speed. Wow! This phone is fast. I ran the weather demo simultaniously, side by side with the Touch HD. And the difference makes the Touch HD look like a joke. (it's not, but compared, its sloooow)
Pinch zoom. OMG now i know why Iphone has been the king of mobile browsing. HAS been! HD2 is now the new king! Opera + capacitive screen with multi touch AND a 1 ghz processor ? It is a match made in heaven. Mobile browsing is EASY and fun now. Thank god i have an internet sub on my simcard...
Camera. Remember how a big hazzel it was to take a pic with Touch HD ? I mean, the moment is GONE, before the camera is ready to take the picture!
With HD2 and a shortcut on the Sense start screen , it takes around 1 second(!!) from press on camera icon till your ready to take the picture!. The flash LED (Which can blind a man btw) makes it possible to shoot in the dark, FINALLY!
Well those things was EXACTLY why I upgraded, and I have not been dissapointed.
Some had a huge problem with the sensitive screen. Not me, I adapted quickly, and the keyboard I was used to from leo rom on the Touch HD, so i guess it's a matter of taste, or fat fingers .
Also
There are a LOT of the tweaks and programs for Dutty's leo rom that works great with the HD2, like BG4all etc.

rd2000 said:
The flash LED (Which can blind a man btw)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
yep, fortgot to mention the LEDs. I love them. Not to take pictures, but for everydays things. Really missed a LED on the Touch HD.

I got my HD2 a week ago, and I'm loving it, other than the rather short battery life (may be a temporary issue, some people do not have this issue).
It's definitely faster than the HD. Going through the Windows folder in File Explorer takes 2 seconds, rather than 6-8 seconds on the HD. Going through tabs in TouchFlo 3D (Sense) is fast, and tab contents are displayed lightning fast.
TomTom works great on the HD2, haven't tried CoPilot because they do not have maps that I could purchase for my region yet (which is funny, since I can download the map while trialling the software). TomTom is rather smooth on the HD2, the position cursor does not jerk forward when moving. With valid QuickGPS data, getting a GPS fix is faster than on the HD.
The speaker is a little worse than the HD in my opinion, although it's somewhat louder than the HD.
Moving from Resistive (HD) to the Capacitive screen in the HD2 may take some time to get used to it. Drawing/scribbling notes can be hard, so is selecting the directory/folder you want to go to in File Explorer. Maybe it's me, I have large fingers.
Reception compared to the HD, Nokia N82, N95 8GB.
The 3G network I'm on is rather bad in my room.
Nokia N82 and N95 8GB - 4 of 7 bars (estimated equivalent on the HD2 would be 3 of 4 bars)
HTC Touch HD - 1 of 4 bars
HTC Touch HD2 - 3 of 4 bars, sometimes full signal.
The signal bars on the HD2 tend to fluctuate at times, while holding the phone in landscape mode and browsing the internet, the signal may drop to no bars, disconnect from the network, then come back on with 1 or 2 bars.
Camera is great. Autofocus seems to be 'continuous', focusing when the camera is moved or after a few seconds. Shutter lag is much shorter than on the HD, but taking moving subjects may still result in a blurr (cranking up the ISO setting doesn't help much). Sharper than on the HD, and the automatic white balance is definitely better than on the HD under certain lighting conditions. LED Flash works OK for objects further than 30cm most of the time, using it for close ups may sometimes result in a bright, white mess.
I'm using the 1.43 ROM, so some of these issues may be fixed in the updated ROM. There are some issues in TouchFlo/Sense, but they are easily corrected by taking a trip down the Tips & Tricks Post in the Leo Forum.

tbela
I'd used Blackstone for some monthes, and overall I was satisfied. (I'd used Xanny Grid Leo rom)
I've a Leo for a week, and now I'm not simply satisfied but I'm happy with it. The speed, the huge screen and the build quality are fantastic. It's very rear, when I have to fight with small old-fashioned windows controls, but with some patience and practice it is also manageable. Nail-touching definitely doesn't work. Althogh, you can buy capacitive-compatible stylus on ebay.
Only disadvantage for me: fring doesn't work, but I hope it will be fixed soon. Temporarily I use Nimbuzz for chatting.
Overall I can highly recommend the upgrade. If you can do, DO IT!

Thanks very much for all the replies guys. The fact that most of you have written wuite a bit tells me you're very enthusiastic about the phone!
I want one for sure now. The only thing is the cost - I can't renew my contract and there are very few Leos on Ebay and around £500, but only maybe £250 sale proceeds from my HD, so it's quite a hit to take.
If I can get a few quid together to help ease the difference then I'll definitely get one.
Thanks for the comments

Same here, had the HD for about a year and liked it in many respects, the HD2 is a much nicer experience though and if you can afford it at some point I highly recommend to get it.

Well I've made my mind up to get one for sure. The only question really is when.
I'll have to buy an unlocked one on Ebay I think and there are very few on there at the moment because the phone is so new. This is obviously therefore keeping the prices really high.
I'm dying to say 'sod it' and get the credit card out but I know I ought to wait a month or two to see if they get a bit cheaper once more are being sold.
I've read reviews on it and most things I see say that this is basically the best piece of hardware on the market in terms of phones, but that it's "let down/ruined" etc by having winmo on it. I like winmo and have used it for years, so for me, that's a plus!
Having said that, I'd kill to see/have winmo7!

Yep. Those reviews are nonsense.
Powerful hardware like this needs a powerful OS, and WinMo really is by far the most powerful OS you can get.
It doesn't ruin anything. It's the perfect OS for a phone like this.
WinMo bashing is a current trend that you can't do anything against when sites like Gizmodo or Engadget spread the FUD. It's really sad.
I wouldn't want any other OS on the HD2.

maati said:
I wouldn't want any other OS on the HD2.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Overall I agree, But Android 2.0 would be very interesting

Well I'm sure I'll be quite happy since it's exactly what I'm used to.
Last phones I've had have been Touch HD, Omnia, XDA Orbit etc - loved them all.
Can't WAIT to get the HD2 though. Especially now I've bought one this afternoon.

Cret said:
Well I'm sure I'll be quite happy since it's exactly what I'm used to.
Last phones I've had have been Touch HD, Omnia, XDA Orbit etc - loved them all.
Can't WAIT to get the HD2 though. Especially now I've bought one this afternoon.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Congrats to get this lovely phone. I'd wager you will like it .