Database Users

Tabbed browsing for internet explorer?

The best thing about Opera for me is the tabs, which is a godsend for GPRS usage. However due to the lastest version of Opera being a buggy piece of crap (worse than the beta imo), i am forced to use IE again.
I remember reading something about a program that added tabbed browsing to IE, but have forgotten what it's called. Does anyone have any idea's?

PIEPlus 2.0

are you using any other programs on the background?
Opera final has been very stable for me, it does not lock up when loading pages like the beta, doesnt have the landscape change mode bug as well.. Double spacing bug is also gone... The rendering is simply amazing and comes close to my desktop version of firefox easily! :shock:
I got my device overclocked, though (240mhz), and i dont have much else installed like themes memory-hogging apps like wisbar advance 2.
I used it for 2 days almost all the time and i was so impressed i didnt even wait for the trial to run out, i already bought it. Very very impressed with it.

spb pocket plus does it and a lot of other stuff

ftxbrowser is a free pie addon with tabs - see here http://forum.xda-developers.com/viewtopic.php?t=44177&highlight=
a bit old but still works and you dont have that annoying keyboard popup problem!

zeuzinn said:
are you using any other programs on the background?
Opera final has been very stable for me, it does not lock up when loading pages like the beta, doesnt have the landscape change mode bug as well.. Double spacing bug is also gone... The rendering is simply amazing and comes close to my desktop version of firefox easily! :shock:
I got my device overclocked, though (240mhz), and i dont have much else installed like themes memory-hogging apps like wisbar advance 2.
I used it for 2 days almost all the time and i was so impressed i didnt even wait for the trial to run out, i already bought it. Very very impressed with it.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
No, nothing else running. Takes 30+ seconds to load up and then constantly freezes on pages for a few seconds or just crashs. I'm not the only one either. Shame, because it does render pages much quicker than IE and copes with java better too

MultiIE v4.0.d71
MultiIE v4.0.d71 does a nice job.
http://www.multiie.info/

Netfront 3.5 tech preview out

http://www.access-company.com/products/netfrontmobile/browser/35_wm_tp.html
been trying it out for a few minutes on x51v -- it's pretty darn fast! It loads up Engadget in its entirety in around 10 seconds and is fully surfable after that.

I've goten it too and set it to my default browser. I defineatly like it but it is a memory hog. The only problem about this is if I leave it open in the background it errors saying not enough free memory.
Other than that it loads up in about 3 seconds on my titan andloads most big sites in about 10-15 seconds.
One issue is that sometimes while scrolling it seems the page has to refresh and keep up.

i am really liking this tech preview. i installed it last night and it's really zippy, although one time i got an error saying that it did not support javascript (even though it does elsewhere).
other than that one instance, everything works perfectly, and it renders web pages really quickly with the "Full Browsing" mode. (don't bother with Rapid-Render, it's actually slower than "Full Browsing"). also, for anyone that's used 3.4 tech preview, this 3.5 beta has working visual bookmarks, meaning it makes the thumbnail based on the part of the page you're viewing. it's great
My "Browser View" settings are (in order):
Full Browsing
Normal
75%
640x640
Medium
and with those settings, it is just flying.
A couple questions:
1) Does anyone know how to get the "External Tools" to work? I added .flv to work with TCPMP, and i went to YtPocket.com to test it out, but nothing happen. ytpocket sends flv format to TCPMP, so I don't know what happened. any ideas?
2) What is the difference between "Full Browsing" mode and "Simple Browsing" mode? they both render the pages as we would see on the desktop, and i can't see much speed difference.

this blows skyfire out of the water. i keep getting the memory error.

I tested netfront 3.5 for a few hours. It seems to me that it is faster than opera mini. However, I am waiting for opera mobile 9.5. I heard it will a lot better than skyfire and netfront 3.5

They finally come up with an update after all these years! (alright, well months...) and obviously, it still doesn't do it.
sounds like a lot of WM browsers around here. PIEPlus has been stuck at 2.2 for as long as I've been using WM, but I'm waiting to see what Opera's next attempt will be like.

rzanology said:
this blows skyfire out of the water. i keep getting the memory error.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
You keep getting the memory error with which program? And could you give us more of an in-depth comparison since you've tried both?

For me it seem to take forever to download a website.
Like cnn.com take a good 3-6 minutes to download when using IE take less a minute.
But once downloaded it scroll the page very fast but I do notice if I use my finger to scroll the page around it keep opening up my battery status setting apps.
I was no where near the battery icon which does that when you touch it.
Bill

its decent, it doesnt support youtube or any other video site... in addition to that, there isnt a dedicated back button lol, which is crucial. ill wait for opera... itll own all the other web browsers, bar none.

Hehe
i wil keep ma fingers crossed and jus wait for the new Opera 9

well...skyfire feel too unpolished. even though its fast...its just not ready yet. there is no mobile few. im a fan of mobile few...meaning...i like the browerser to org everything in on coloumn so there is no need for scrolling to the right or left. how ever.....netfront does a good job of the zooming out and zooming in. so i can live with that. its also faster than skyfire. but i still find myself needed to launch up opera mini....for my myspace and facebook needs...as well as general browsing like gizmodo.com and engadget....opermini offers the best experence. but netfront really isn't bad. im looking foward to trying the new opera...as i didnt really care for 8.5 or 8.6 what ever it is.

Guys, Some questions.
I have never had the need to install 3rd party web browser.. due to the fact that I think the more apps you install, the slower your device will be... so, I always keep my apps to minimum...
Now, is skyfire/opera much faster than PIE? (how much faster?)
What makes you guys think that it is necessary to install 3rd party apps?
What makes you guys "hate" the default PIE?

joseph.sapri said:
Guys, Some questions.
I have never had the need to install 3rd party web browser.. due to the fact that I think the more apps you install, the slower your device will be... so, I always keep my apps to minimum...
Now, is skyfire/opera much faster than PIE? (how much faster?)
What makes you guys think that it is necessary to install 3rd party apps?
What makes you guys "hate" the default PIE?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
even though pocket ie has gotton better...it just isnt up to snuff. you should really try opera mini...you're in for a treat.
um...the more you install on your phone doesnt really make it slower. but it is good practice to keep your 3rd party app to a minimum....to the device atlease. i install everything to the storage card.

TechBill said:
For me it seem to take forever to download a website.
Like cnn.com take a good 3-6 minutes to download when using IE take less a minute.
But once downloaded it scroll the page very fast but I do notice if I use my finger to scroll the page around it keep opening up my battery status setting apps.
I was no where near the battery icon which does that when you touch it.
Bill
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
It takes me a good 3-6 minutes to load up CNN as well, in fact most sites PIE opens up faster. :/

I just timed cnn.com opening and it only took 44 secs on AT&T 3G connection. In fact, Im replying while on Net Front right now. So far Im really liking this browser, besides the fact that it burns through my battery with incredible speed.

I've been playing with this browser a lot over the weekend, and so I'm here to post sort of an explanation of it.
1) MEMORY HOG, wow that is my biggest issue. In Task Managers, it's only using up about 1.4 mb of RAM, but seriously, if i just open the browser (not even opening a webpage), then go to PointUI, every single animation is slowed down. That's just an example, but everywhere else, the device is slowed. Well, except for the browser itself.
2)I figured out the little differences between the Browser View Settings.
Browsing Mode
Full Browsing: Desktop Mode. As you see the site on your Desktop. My favorite by far.
Text Browsing: All Text. Pretty Straightforward.
Simple Browsing: Basically all text, except for some small images. For example, loading up the "Development and Hacking" here on Xda loads as all text, no formatting, but shows the little thread ratings stars, the little paperclip, the little thumbtack, etc.
Rapid-Render: Pretty annoying, from my tests anyway. Loads up the page as all text, then goes back and loads all the formatting so it ends up as a Desktop View. Seems good in theory (get the speed benefit of "Text Browsing", and you still have the option to wait for the full formatting of "Full Browsing"). HOWEVER, your reading is always interrupted because the screen refreshes itself and goes blank when it goes from Text to Full. I tested, and it takes the same amount of time to get to full formatting of a webpage whether you use Rapid-Render or Full Browsing, so I prefer to avoid that screen refresh.
Display Mode
Normal: Normal. Duh.
Just-Fit: Shoves everything into one screen, messing up all formatting.
Smart-Fit: Resizes web page tables and stuff to fit on the screen. Better than Just-Fit.
Zoom - It's obvious. Kinda annoying how NetFront reloads the page when you change zoom levels, though. I leave mine at 75%.
Virtual Canvas - Changes the screen size. Think of it like the size of your desktop monitor. Best setting for me is 640x640, because anything bigger shows tons of blank spaces on web pages (since NetFront auto resizes text to fit in one screen), and the "Disable" option doesn't allow you to double-tap the screen (or double click the Action Button) for the zoomed out screen.
Text Size - Obvious. I leave mine on Medium. Along with the 75% zoom, I am able to read text comfortably, as well as maximizing the screen area.
Whew.

Azimuth21 said:
I've been playing with this browser a lot over the weekend, and so I'm here to post sort of an explanation of it.
1) MEMORY HOG, wow that is my biggest issue. In Task Managers, it's only using up about 1.4 mb of RAM, but seriously, if i just open the browser (not even opening a webpage), then go to PointUI, every single animation is slowed down. That's just an example, but everywhere else, the device is slowed. Well, except for the browser itself.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
That is because it is a CPU hog. This is the best browser on memory I have used so far, especially on Simple Browsing mode. I have to close the browser when I am finished using it because it uses about 80% cpu when minimized. But it is so fast I don't mind.
I think everything else you have said is spot on.

Netfront 3.4 didn't use up any noticable CPU when in the background, 3.5 uses up a huge amount, since it's obviously something they changed/added, hopefully they fix it before release

i already posted this in another thread about netfront, but this thread seems to actually have people viewing it
after putting this browser through multiple speed tests, it continuously produced slow results...especially in comparison with IE
when connected to wifi, i tested multiple times, and heres about the averages i would get with the browsers
IE-1.7 mbps
Opera-800 kbps
Picsel-1.0 mbps
NetFront- 300 kbps
the only reason i wanted to speed test was because netfront felt slow, and according to those tests, it was alot slower than my other browsers...
i LOVE the browser, the wordwrapping to fit on screen works great, i like the scrolling, tabbed browsing, and everything.....featurewise, its better than opera, speedwise its terrible...
EDIT** i have been speed testing at www.mobilespeedtest.com

lupes5 said:
i already posted this in another thread about netfront, but this thread seems to actually have people viewing it
after putting this browser through multiple speed tests, it continuously produced slow results...especially in comparison with IE
when connected to wifi, i tested multiple times, and heres about the averages i would get with the browsers
IE-1.7 mbps
Opera-800 kbps
Picsel-1.0 mbps
NetFront- 300 kbps
the only reason i wanted to speed test was because netfront felt slow, and according to those tests, it was alot slower than my other browsers...
i LOVE the browser, the wordwrapping to fit on screen works great, i like the scrolling, tabbed browsing, and everything.....featurewise, its better than opera, speedwise its terrible...
EDIT** i have been speed testing at www.mobilespeedtest.com
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Thanks for this... so basically, PIE is still the best in performance?

best browser for my htc touch!!

hey all!!
Can someone give me a link for the best browser for my touch please??? like the iphone or the nokia browser plz??
And for Skyfire, I have download it but it tell me that my number is not good, I want to know how to use skyfire without the number problem.
Bye!!

If you want skyfire you must sign up for the beta program and you will eventually be sent the installation package.
Try Opera or Opera Mini.

i'm working through browsers now, trying to figure out which one i like the most. here's a quick personal rundown of browsers I have installed...
Opera Mini 4
Positives:
SUPERFAST with the latest Jbed, absolutely the fastest browser in the WM market, hands down
Very light on cpu
Negatives:
can't select text
no easy way to quickly edit the current URL
can't copy link location
everytime i minimize then reopen the browser, i'm asked if i want to exit or resume Opera Mini. just gets annoying after a while
if i want to save the url of a page i'm on, i have to go to "add bookmark", then copy the url out of there. something else that's annoying is, if i'm zoomed in a page, and i click on a link, the new link loads and prevents me access to the zooming out feature. i have to be missing something here.
Opera Browser 8.65
Positives:
Good standards compliance as far as i know
Works with some flash, but not stuff like regular youtube
Tabbed browsing
Negatives:
feels sluggish, especially with tabs open
Opera Browser 9.5 Beta, build 4905 (aka 9.405)
Positives:
Fast
Customizable (zoom levels and stuff like that)
Negatives:
Only two zoom levels accessible
Clearly a leaked beta, with little niggles in the qVGA skin (for example, URL history is annoying)
Cannot be used with PCMKeyboard, because it inputs s p a c e s (<--like that) when typing in input fields
Page-Panning is slowed down because of FTouchFlo. There's a lag in screen movement when you pan around, but it works perfectly when I try it without FTouchFlo enabled. Therefore, should be fine for you, since you have built-in scrolling on your Touch
Netfront Browser Technical Preview v3.5
Positives:
Nice interface, I like the double-tap view because of it's ease of access
Negatives:
When loading a page (full browsing rendering mode), it'll load, then freeze for about 10 seconds, THEN allow you to finally browse the loaded page
Missing some features because it's a tech preview
Horrendous CPU Hog, you have to remember to go into bookmarks everytime you switch to a different application in order to prevent device slowdown
ibisBrowserDX v1.0
Positives:
Fast
Negatives:
Designed for usage with keyboard and pretty difficult to use with only the touchscreen (basic browser controls are hidden in a menu)
Internet Explorer Mobile from WM6.1 (with zoom-out feature)
Positives:
works perfectly with all Windows actions, like opening links, downloading things, etc
Negatives:
slow
zooming-out feature isn't that useful, because it's stuck inside a menu.
no built-in scrolling in IEM itself, but you can use FTouchFlo or the system-scrolling in your Touch with it perfectly fine.
I haven't been invited to the SkyFire beta, although I did sign up for it a while ago. Therefore, I can't comment on it. Looks really promising, though.
Hope that helps. I got CARRIED AWAY, hahahah.
By the way, this is my current setup:
Opera 9.5 build 4905 for long browsing sessions
Opera Mini 4 if I just want to quickly look up something, or if I'm surfing heavy sites like ESPN or Yahoo and want the speed.
Internet Explorer Mobile set as my default browser, to ensure there are no setup hassles when internet is crucial to something (for example, FlashVideoBundle, ytpocket.com, downloading files, etc)

Picsel Browser without a doubt!

you forgot deepfish...
its not perfect, since its a closed beta.
but it is a nice browser.
i have noticed that i cannot log in to websites... like this one. not sure why, but i am sure it will be fixed in later editions.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=327568

Azimuth21 said:
Netfront Browser Technical Preview v3.5
Positives:
Nice interface, I like the double-tap view because of it's ease of access
Negatives:
When loading a page (full browsing rendering mode), it'll load, then freeze for about 10 seconds, THEN allow you to finally browse the loaded page
Missing some features because it's a tech preview
Horrendous CPU Hog, you have to remember to go into bookmarks everytime you switch to a different application in order to prevent device slowdown
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
This is the best I have ever tried....
I haven't this kind of problem you said....
I think because I have Battery Status with Cpu Scaler which can set the cpu clock until 260 mhz...

might as well add a little postscript to my previous post.
1) As with SkyFire, I am also not part of the Deepfish closed beta, so I cannot comment on that.
2) I abandoned Picsel Browser a loooong time ago, for too many factors to count. Menneisyys seems to be in-depth on these things, he'll tell you why.
3) flaviopac, I really hoped that it's just me, but countless other people have experienced it. I'm playing with all of these browsers on my Hermes, whose 400 mhz Samsung processor hopefully trounces the 200 mhz TI OMAP processor of the Touch you have (ok, 260 mhz since you overclocked it, lol). Keep in mind that it isn't Netfront itself that slows down. Open up Netfront 3.5, minimize it by pressing the red End Key, and now go about daily functions. Horrifically slow, if I recall. Not to mention the battery drain. Like I said, there IS a workaround. Whenever I'm using Netfront and want to switch to a different app, I first go to the bookmarks screen of Netfront, THEN switch apps. Device runs normally when I do that, it's just that doing that is a tedious extra step.
It's cool, though, to each his own. Wish I could try out SkyFire or Deepfish now, though...

thank for everyone !
I have tied all these browsers and it's so cool!

Best Browser for the Mogul/memory expansion?

Hey, I was just wondering what you guys thought the best WM6 browser was. I'm currently running Picsel and besides the long page load times, it's going great. It also eats up an unhealthy amount of memory so I was wondering if anyone managed to expand the system memory. I've heard mixed opinions about different Opera versions as well as Webby so any experienced reviews on those would be awesome as well. Of course Deepfish is great but still can't get my hands on it, so oh well.

im running opera mobile 9.5 and love it, havent had a memory problem yet, and rite now there isnt a way to expand memory w/o taking the device apart

mike21pr said:
im running opera mobile 9.5 and love it, havent had a memory problem yet, and rite now there isnt a way to expand memory w/o taking the device apart
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
i tried 9.5 and it sucks on m ogul icons are so big i liked the older version
much better

opera 9.5 renders nicely, but it is slow and as the previous poster said; most icons and menu options don't work (as it's made for a VGA device).
I'd stay with Opera 8.5 which works very nicely.

im using skyfire and its been working great. havent run out of memory yet while using it. and it supports flashlite 3 so it fully works with things like youtube

Y'all must have the wrong version of Opera 9.5. There's plenty of post about it. There's a QVGA cab made, the works just fine on the Mogul.
I too use Skyfire, and it seems like the best option for pages with animation, video, sound, flash, etc.
Opera, is very nice though. I wish, it played flash and stuff like Skyfire.

I'm running both Skyfire and Netfront v3.5. Netfront seems to be a little quicker, though skyfire works pretty well, just takes some time to render the different zoom levels.
Going to have to try the latest versions of opera mini/mobile since I haven't used them in a while.

Using Skyfire and Netfront 3.5. Skyfire is great for multimedia, but doesn't seem to handle downloads yet, while Netfront 3.5 is great at downloading but is pretty disabled because it's still in the technical preview phase...I do want to try the camera-based navigation when it launches though! Haven't tried Opera in a long time.

Where do you find this Skyfire?

you have to be on a waiting list for skyfire. go to their website, skyfire.com, and you can sign up, but ive been waiting for months and havent received my invite yet. itll be a while but sign up now.

dzuchowski said:
i tried 9.5 and it sucks on m ogul icons are so big i liked the older version
much better
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
you must have tried the vga version, i have the qvga and its quick and looks greaT!!

so far ive used the majoity of the versions of Opera ad i must say that the 9.5 is working great. there are a few problems but they r minor and b fixed w a few taps. as for Skyfire...i just signed up back in early april so i dont expect to get my invite for another couple months since there r ppl on here saying that theyve signed up months and months ago. btw, ive heard rumors of a web browser called "Re-vmp'd". its supposed to be an almost exact duplicate of the 3G iphone browser...no sure how accurate that info is but its worth a shot.
L8rz,
Kaz

The ipone uses a mobile version of Safari. it works well, but doesn't have flash support, so hopefully they added that in with the version that ships with the 3g iphone.

Skyfire doesn't render jack. It just pushes pre-rendered images to your phone; the faster your internet the faster skyfire is. (Also consider their server speeds etc)
I'm also pretty sure flash works the same way, it's just streaming video/audio. At least this is the feel I got based on average latencies of either technology.
It does burn ~9mb of ram though, but remains fairly constant there. It may use less on the release version after they switch out of debugging releases.

I use Safari. there is an open source port of it availale on sourceforge.net made for wm5/6

friguy33 said:
you have to be on a waiting list for skyfire. go to their website, skyfire.com, and you can sign up, but ive been waiting for months and havent received my invite yet. itll be a while but sign up now.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
"waiting list"? lol....i got it from softpedia.com (freeware download). totally legal, and publicly available. (see attachment)

crobs808 said:
"waiting list"? lol....i got it from softpedia.com (freeware download). totally legal, and publicly available. (see attachment)
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
im curious, what username and password are you using to log into the the skyfire browser. that is of course, assuming that your leet googling skills have allowed you to realize that the skyfire browser, even the one linked, is a closed beta, only available to beta testers. yes, you can download it, no you cant use it...

Mills00013 said:
im curious, what username and password are you using to log into the the skyfire browser. that is of course, assuming that your leet googling skills have allowed you to realize that the skyfire browser, even the one linked, is a closed beta, only available to beta testers. yes, you can download it, no you cant use it...
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
if you signed up on their site a month or two ago, you can use the login credentials you provided then. if you didnt sign up for the beta, then yeah, you are right, the CAB is useless to you. i logged in with the credentials i supplied 3 months ago, im using it. nothing to write home about. crashes when i go to any site that has an animated GIF, lol...great browser.

As funny as this sounds I have tried many of the programs previously listed. I am back to using PIE! Not without some additional programs though.
I have a program called MultiIE that enhances PIE to allow much more in the way of options. Best about this program is that it adds TABBED browsing to PIE! And yes it works but EATS memory like candy. Downside is that its not free.
I also swear by TCPMP & FlashVideoBundle. While not full flash will at least work on YouTube and several other select sites. Best about these is the ability to download & save any YouTube videos you want.
These programs ONLY work with PIE. That's why I've stuck with it.

Yea still
There is no browser that is capable as skyfire, supports flash 7, 8, and 9. Browses faster than piscel, ie, netfront. Smoothest page navigation by far. It just lacks a few features, but keep in mind it is a beta. But I wouldn't trade it for all the other browsers. If I didn't have skyfire I would settle for netfront but it seems to eat crazy ram. You have to close it before phone is fully functional again.

xperia compatible SKYFIRE 0.9.0.9151

works fine on my device and on the htc HD without the need for wvgafix3
enjoy
direct cab download
http://get.skyfire.com/

the graphics looks scaled up from wqvga 400x240. why? maybe to save bandwidth?

i don't think you're allowed to post that, from what I understand skyfire have been complaining about copyright infringement.
Unless of course they've released it already that is..

i removed it i dont want to get into truble.
get it from here .9.0.9151
http://get.skyfire.com/

scrolling not as smooth as in opera. youtube video playback is a little laggy.

I really liked it. Much faster than Opera for me and the flash support is pretty good. Im looking forward to the next release for sure.

I gave it a try on my xperia TouchIT 3.5 RC1, i didn't find it good: no easy zoom, laggy youtube, and blurred text.
for now i'll stick with Oper...

I prefer Opera as well. There was much talk about this and was expecting way more. Unless you zoom in, everything is blurry (so how am i suppose to know whether I want to zoom in or not), it's laggy and just like opera it does not work with certificates. So I am sticking with opera for everyday browsing and internet explorer for certificate use.

Hmm, it really seems to be 400x240... I can't get it started, it says acquiring data connection and check flight mode, or do I only have to wait some time?
Got it, with WLAN it works, maybe I haven't waited long enough... seems to be not very fast...

got the same problem. but since its scaled anyway, i dont care much cause i dont think im going to use this.

text could be better. i have to refresh every now and then to get the text to clear up. playing the web video is good but could be smoother. its a beta and hopefully it gets better.
i found it to be a bit slow but i may attribute that to my wi-fi connection as to i am always past 30ft from my wireless connection and that i have it installed on my storage card.
for now its another web tool to keep in case i want to view a page with video content.

Youtube works, not perfect, but it works, that's nice, a fullscreen mode for the videos would be nice... the resolution is not nice, I think in full WVGA it would look much better...

full resolution will probably make go even slower. i think its geting pages as pictures as i see it supporting text languages that i know are not suppoted by my phone
they should dither the picture to make look less pixely

To me, the older Skyfire version 0.9.0.8294 seems to be better. It still looks blurry when zoomed out, but when you zoom in completely, it renders the page clearly. The .9151 version still looks blurry even if you zoom in completely.

are they caching the sites and we are getting the sites off their server??
this is a big security risk!
I noticed that because our proxy server is being bypassed

mystkai they aren't caching site, they are loading them for you on their fast servers and then sending an image down to your phone. Which is one of the reasons like Opera Mini why I tend not to use them.

I think it's the best flash included browser yet. My only problem with it so far is that it really does work best in wifi. The videos are at times choppy, but better than nothing at all.

is there a way to make it play the video in full screen or close to full screen. the zoom in function cannot be fine tuned

I personally like it alot. Yeah is blurry and laggy but is still a Beta remember. Once they fix those things it will be the best i think.

I think Skyfire has a great potential, and if it works without laggs and in full wvga it will be a great browser, I hope the next beta will work better, than I can watch youtube