Database Users

[idea] seismograph application

Today I have seen a seismographs application in iphone... A needle was continously writing the output coming from the acclerometer like those richter measuring seismographs.
And it was quite sensitive. Even if somebody walk in the room, you can see the changes in the seismographs. I really wanted to be able to write some code for wm but i can't... So maybe one of our you guys can be inspired by this and can write something similiar for this... I really like to play with these g-sensor programs...

I could not grab enough attention for the european users... So I try my chance one more time in the time zone where american users are mostly active...
A seismograph application... I don't think that it's that difficult... the code does even not to suppress the disturbance... Because actually it should be measuring the disturbance continuously...
I've also heard that it is a free app. for iphone... I don't know maybe the code of that program is somewhere available...
Cheers,

emre_aachen said:
I could not grab enough attention for the european users... So I try my chance one more time in the time zone where american users are mostly active...
A seismograph application... I don't think that it's that difficult... the code does even not to suppress the disturbance... Because actually it should be measuring the disturbance continuously...
I've also heard that it is a free app. for iphone... I don't know maybe the code of that program is somewhere available...
Cheers,
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Click to collapse
I could try making that app but could you post the link for the iphone version plz? out puting the sensors are kite easy for me atm but i don't imagine the relation bethen ms^2 and Mercalli scale. so yes the needle will will shake but i don't know what to put in the tag's
ps im European

Ikari... You are my favorite coder... After your accelerometer, responding to this has proven it one more time...
Ok so here some youtube links to see how it looks like...
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y93QrIYsM6o
or
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=OK1GNbNZcmE
Basically you don't need to think about the unit conversion or any other... I mean as you see on iphone, it's something ver simple... Not scientific... No units... Just a scale on the "rolling paper"... Let's say the maximum disturbance is the limit of the paper and it's 3 times of gravity... A simliar UI would be really nice... Maybe you can also think of a logarithmic scale (which is the case for richter scale) then you can even show 6 G on the paper... it will not take so much place for the increasing gravity (i don't know what is the maximum output you can measure with the sensor inside)
It would be really nice to see such a thing...

P.S.
You can also find some explanation and screenshots of the program from the following link:
http://translate.google.com/translate?client=tmpg&hl=en&u=http://coneri.se/iphone/&langpair=sv|en
(translated to english)
If you have an apple account, you can also download the iphone version for free!!

that's a cool idea...+1 from me

me too...

+1
it's really a good and funny idea

emre_aachen said:
Basically you don't need to think about the unit conversion or any other... I mean as you see on iphone, it's something ver simple... Not scientific... No units... Just a scale on the "rolling paper"... Let's say the maximum disturbance is the limit of the paper and it's 3 times of gravity... A simliar UI would be really nice... Maybe you can also think of a logarithmic scale (which is the case for richter scale) then you can even show 6 G on the paper... it will not take so much place for the increasing gravity (i don't know what is the maximum output you can measure with the sensor inside)
It would be really nice to see such a thing...
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Click to collapse
DOn't make the mistake of making it simple, it will only be a laughing matter for the fanboys at work if you know what I mean. My point is, if you're going to copy, why not improve the idea right?
Btw, great job on the accelerometer Ikari, you're the man!

Try this one:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?p=2646062

[APP] Anyone seen this EYE poping & AMAZIG APP??

An app for the iPhone that simulates a lighter. Yup, you heard that right. So why is it all the rage in Europe and Japan? Read on.
This is insane.
iPhone users all over Europe and Japan have been going ga-ga over a new app released by a company called Smule. Basically, "Sonic Lighter" is software that displays a virtual lighter on your iPhone; with e-flames blazing on your phone's screen. And yes, the flame "sways" depending on how you move your phone. The main attraction though is something else.
The app is location-aware: if you choose, you can display your location on a virtual globe. When you do so, and when you run the app, you show up as a flame shaped blip on this map. The more you run the app, the more "kilojoules" you burn -- which further brightens your area on the globe. When you're done for the day, just blow on the microphone to "extinguish" the flame. For those who think it's not cool enough, you can ignite other lighters on iPhones near you.
Not satisfied? Have a look at this:
http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=2XUw6Hy4Tzk
http://www.smule.com/products/
WILL IT BE AVAILABLE FOR OUR HTC TOUCH DIAMOND????

that guy blowing his iphone is creepy.

wow
really useless

Setting fire to iPhones is great idea, nice thread.
Don't they just spontaneously combust anyway?

N3m3515 said:
wow
really useless
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+1. Can someone explain how this software make my life easier/better?

it will not make life easier/better, but its cool to know what ur phone is able to do

lude219 said:
+1. Can someone explain how this software make my life easier/better?
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Can someone explain how this software make my life harder/worse?

Zida2k said:
it will not make life easier/better, but its cool to know what ur phone is able to do
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Click to collapse
I'd like my phone to take care of the kitchen

well thats useless .. but also fun! .. i put these apps from time to time to have fun with my little brother & sister lol
i wouldnt mind to get this app on my diamond

The brilliant thing is, is that the Diamond is perfectly capable of doing this is someone was willing to create the application. The only reason we don't see as many cool applications as there are for the iPhone, is because there is little to no advertising to draw the consumers in, and there's no officially released SDK for the sensors on the Diamond.
The Diamond does actually havemore hardware based sensors than the iPhone does, and it also has the added advantage of being able to run programs made by any random user with a compiler handy.

No Accelerometer In Touch Hd!!!

Conclusion: There IS Accelerometer, only they call it G-Sensor, thanks for all the feedback!
Dear fellows,
I was unpleasantly surprised to find that Touch HD does NOT have an accelerometer, rather only a G-Sensor. (Some more detail: Accelerometer is supposed to sense "acceleration," typically in all three dimensions x,y and z. With software support, orientation sensing can be done as one usage. G-Sensor is an inferior sensor that only gives information about orientation, no velocity/acceleration sensing). Although it can be argued that most typical uses are covered by G-Sensor (like screen orientation), but the key word is "most" Accelerometer is definitively more useful in gaming, and potentially other applications. I searched several other threads and found many people equating G-Sensor with accelerometer. I hope this thread can add some clarification.
To me it looks like another effort by HTC to cut on a few bucks. Anyway I still consider it as a minor setback to me in my overall enthusiasm for Touh HD Just missing one good argument to an iphone user (no iphone debate wars intended here )
Best regards.

waqarz said:
Dear fellows,
I was unpleasantly surprised to find that Touch HD does NOT have an accelerometer, rather only a G-Sensor. (Some more detail: Accelerometer is supposed to sense "acceleration," typically in all three dimensions x,y and z. With software support, orientation sensing can be done as one usage. G-Sensor is an inferior sensor that only gives information about orientation, no velocity/acceleration sensing). Although it can be argued that most typical uses are covered by G-Sensor (like screen orientation), but the key word is "most" Accelerometer is definitively more useful in gaming, and potentially other applications. I searched several other threads and found many people equating G-Sensor with accelerometer. I hope this thread can add some clarification.
To me it looks like another effort by HTC to cut on a few bucks. Anyway I still consider it as a minor setback to me in my overall enthusiasm for Touh HD Just missing one good argument to an iphone user (no iphone debate wars intended here )
Best regards.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
another victim fallen to the marketing gimmick of a "buzz word", accelerometer, despite its name doesn't necessary mean it must detect acceleration, iphone's accelerometer doesn't do that. none on the market do that. if in the future there's a similar device that can detect acceleration, then it may fall into the "accelerometer" category, or market people will create a new buzz word to highlight its features.
but g senor, motion sensor and accelerometer are the same thing as the market/technology stands now. i made the same mistake and was corrected as well:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=436592#7

buggybug0 said:
another victim fallen to the marketing gimmick of a "buzz word", accelerometer, despite its name doesn't necessary mean it must detect acceleration, iphone's accelerometer doesn't do that. none on the market do that. if in the future there's a similar device that can detect acceleration, then it may fall into the "accelerometer" category, or market people will create a new buzz word to highlight its features.
but g senor, motion sensor and accelerometer are the same thing as the market/technology stands now. i made the same mistake and was corrected as well:
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=436592#7
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Click to collapse
Thanks. Well if this is indeed true (that iphone and others also only have a G-Sensor) I dont think I can call it marketing gimik. It is plain dishonesty. An accelerometer is a well understood term, misusing it is... well!
But have you checked that for iphone. I will check that tomorrow with one colleague who has one. Wikipedia gives different info here, I quote:
"For example, Apple uses an LIS302DL accelerometer in the iPhone, iPod Touch and the 4th generation iPod Nano allowing the device to know when it is tilted on its side."
LIS302DL is indeed a full blown accelerometer, not just g-sensor! So lets recheck and compare our notes. Thanks for the feedback!

I think the proof is in the fact that you cant do anything with the Iphone's "accelerometer" that you cant also do with the HTC "g-sensor" If there was a fundamental difference in their capability it would have been exploited by now.

WILD9 said:
If there was a fundamental difference in their capability it would have been exploited by now.
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http://www.CarTrackApp.com/

fallenczar said:
http://www.CarTrackApp.com/
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Click to collapse
And in response... [APP] gMeter for HTC Touch Diamond/Pro [Second release]

edit: damn beaten to it!

waqarz said:
Thanks. Well if this is indeed true (that iphone and others also only have a G-Sensor) I dont think I can call it marketing gimik. It is plain dishonesty. An accelerometer is a well understood term, misusing it is... well!
But have you checked that for iphone. I will check that tomorrow with one colleague who has one. Wikipedia gives different info here, I quote:
"For example, Apple uses an LIS302DL accelerometer in the iPhone, iPod Touch and the 4th generation iPod Nano allowing the device to know when it is tilted on its side."
LIS302DL is indeed a full blown accelerometer, not just g-sensor! So lets recheck and compare our notes. Thanks for the feedback!
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
These two apps prove you wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=431965
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=422662
Surur

surur said:
These two apps prove you wrong.
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=431965
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=422662
Surur
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Wake up ppl, all these applications discussed above are using GPS signal in conjunction with G-sensing. So this discussion is not relevant to this topic!!
Doing some more digging here and the source code shows my first post is accurate. There IS a FULL LIS302DL accelerometer in iphone, and we are stuck with G-Sensor of HD.... means we cant "shake things around" literally.

waqarz said:
Wake up ppl, all these applications discussed above are using GPS signal in conjunction with G-sensing. So this discussion is not relevant to this topic!!
Doing some more digging here and the source code shows my first post is accurate. There IS a FULL LIS302DL accelerometer in iphone, and we are stuck with G-Sensor of HD.... means we cant "shake things around" literally.
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Click to collapse
No they don't use GPS for Accel, it is impossible to measure short time Accell with GPS accuracy.
G-Sensor is just another Name for Accelerometer. Both Sensors (IPhone and HD) have nearly the same accuracy in there API, so if you look to the source of the IPhone you should also look at the Sensor-API of the HTC's ;_)).
So HD/Diamond/Raphael has not only a "Tilt-On/Off"-Sensor as you try to explain, it is indeed a "full"-Accelerometer. You could just install one of the mentioned Programs to prove that the indeed are measuring acceleration .
And if you are really interested you should look at: http://www.koushikdutta.com/2008/07/using-htc-touch-diamond-sensor-sdk-from.html
to learn how to program the Accelerometer.
BTW Gyroscope-Sensors are brand new, and no phone to date has one , the should be cheaper and more accurate as the today build in Sensors.

Rivendel is absolutely right. The applications wouldn't work without a proper accelerometer.
Originally, micromachined accelerometers would have been very expensive, but now there is so much demand for them that they can be bought for about a dollar in large quantity.

Rivendel said:
No they don't use GPS for Accel, it is impossible to measure short time Accell with GPS accuracy.
G-Sensor is just another Name for Accelerometer. Both Sensors (IPhone and HD) have nearly the same accuracy in there API, so if you look to the source of the IPhone you should also look at the Sensor-API of the HTC's ;_)).
So HD/Diamond/Raphael has not only a "Tilt-On/Off"-Sensor as you try to explain, it is indeed a "full"-Accelerometer. You could just install one of the mentioned Programs to prove that the indeed are measuring acceleration .
And if you are really interested you should look at: http://www.koushikdutta.com/2008/07/using-htc-touch-diamond-sensor-sdk-from.html
to learn how to program the Accelerometer.
BTW Gyroscope-Sensors are brand new, and no phone to date has one , the should be cheaper and more accurate as the today build in Sensors.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
OK, yes I guess you are right too; Pocket GForce register lots of Gs just moving the device sideways without tilting it much, so some measurement of acceleration is there. Then may be, HTC ppl should upgrade and call it accelerometer!

waqarz said:
OK, yes I guess you are right too; Pocket GForce register lots of Gs just moving the device sideways without tilting it much, so some measurement of acceleration is there. Then may be, HTC ppl should upgrade and call it accelerometer!
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Click to collapse
Well G-Sensor does allude to acceleration if you take name to mean a sensor which measures G-Force....

G sensors and accelerometers are exactly the same thing.the former is more of layman and commercial term while the later is the more appropriate technical term.what it does is measure acceleration as its name suggest.this device can be position in any axis(x,y,z).a complete system should consist of 3 accelerometers in exact tangent to each other in those 3 axis so that it can sense vertical,horizontal and lateral accelerations.since acceleration is measured in "meters/seconds squared"the value of acceleration when integrated once will give u distance and when integrated twice will give u time.this is the basis of any stand alone navigation or guidance systems but it must be coupled with a 3 axis gyroscopic system to give attitude information.in the phone,the accelerometers measure the gravity force which has an acceleration of approx 10 m/s squared.the resultant output will determine the phone's orientation

it has an acceltomater, with diamonds vr hologram, if you lay it on a flat surface, and push it artound, it wil stil move

Rivendel said:
BTW Gyroscope-Sensors are brand new, and no phone to date has one , the should be cheaper and more accurate as the today build in Sensors.
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Click to collapse
Some Nokia phones have had Gyroscope-Sensor for over year by now, it rotates the map in the navigating software real time when u spin around, its very handy when navigating by walking.

I think that's a digital compass in the Nokia phones. A lot of the recent ones don't have the compass though (N95, etc.)

multi touch

is it possibe to get the multi-touch iphone feature on the htc touch hd
(gesture internet browser feature)

deanoyouno said:
there is a bit if software which ive got which allows multi touch
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is it possibe for u to upload it or post a link

deanoyouno said:
it is possible but im not going to do it, i like to keep it to myself because it makes my phone unique sorry guys
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The whole point of xda developers is to share your knowledge and help improve everyones phones performances etc
If you aren't willing to share this, why post in the first place???
In future don't post anything unless you are actually going to share the knowledge!!!

deanoyouno said:
it is possible but im not going to do it, i like to keep it to myself because it makes my phone unique sorry guys
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Click to collapse
You come to these forums to take what others have to offer, there knowledge and skills yet you will not share so your phone can be unique from others..... There are 6.76 billion people on this earth, you and your phone will never be unique because the odds are stacked against you. The feelings you get from being selfish and thinking you are unique in amongst 6.76 billion people will be insignificant to the feelings you will feel if you become a giver to even just a small group like us that is here to share with you.....

deanoyouno said:
the odds are against me but im prob the only one on this forum who has this software. so the odds are against you to find someone else who has this software
here is my phone code: w3445DJJSK*2 if there are any developers that no what they are talking about you will be able to get the software off my phone via software creation.
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your full of **** and you know it..
what are you, like 12?

I think its time for an IP Ban, looks like arsenalfc is back.
Just ignore him, he craves attention.

scottyuk said:
I think its time for an IP Ban, looks like arsenalfc is back.
Just ignore him, he craves attention.
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Click to collapse
One problem to ignoring him is that he actually gives bogus help. My concern would be that some noob wud believe him and possibly damage their phone!
I just hope they have enough common sense to realise what a fool he is!

spikez93 said:
is it possibe to get the multi-touch iphone feature on the htc touch hd
(gesture internet browser feature)
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Click to collapse
My apologies spikez93 as we have gone a bit off topic
As to your query I am not sure, but I will look into it. Anyone else?

The real answer is: no you can't have hardware multitouch like the iphone. If you search in this forum, you'll find that some people are working on a software solution to be able to press 2 differentes buttons at the same time; But you wont get pinch zooming etc on Blackstone.

gaelynx said:
The real answer is: no you can't have hardware multitouch like the iphone. If you search in this forum, you'll find that some people are working on a software solution to be able to press 2 differentes buttons at the same time; But you wont get pinch zooming etc on Blackstone.
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Click to collapse
From what I've read it will be possible to get a 'pinch' effect but only when holding one finger still and moving the other, it won't be able to pick up both fingers moving towards each other though.

moshbeard said:
From what I've read it will be possible to get a 'pinch' effect but only when holding one finger still and moving the other, it won't be able to pick up both fingers moving towards each other though.
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
If you keep one finger still on the screen and move the other to pinch, the touch screen won't be able to differentiate whether you are pinching in (for zoom-in) or pinching out (for zoom-out), because it only see one displacement: the movement of the center point between the 2 fingers.
So if we can't distinguish zoom-in from zoom-out, how can we use this 'pinch' effect to zoom?

gaelynx said:
If you keep one finger still on the screen and move the other to pinch, the touch screen won't be able to differentiate whether you are pinching in (for zoom-in) or pinching out (for zoom-out), because it only see one displacement: the movement of the center point between the 2 fingers.
So if we can't distinguish zoom-in from zoom-out, how can we use this 'pinch' effect to zoom?
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Click to collapse
Ws thinking of same thing but probable wouldn't have explained it as well as you did!!!

Good call on banning that dipshi*t. What an iddiot.

Ban the a$$h0l3
Even noobs like me try to help people with whatever knowledge we have.

I'M NOT SURE i AGREE WITH THIS AND HERE'S WHY...
gaelynx said:
If you keep one finger still on the screen and move the other to pinch, the touch screen won't be able to differentiate whether you are pinching in (for zoom-in) or pinching out (for zoom-out), because it only see one displacement: the movement of the center point between the 2 fingers.
So if we can't distinguish zoom-in from zoom-out, how can we use this 'pinch' effect to zoom?
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Click to collapse
When the first finger touchs an X,Y coordinate is available... when the second finger touchs there will be an instantaneous coordinate displacement that does not include the intravening points and also with no cooresponding finger-up event... it should be possible to look for this programatically and know that you are in a two-finger style event... also based on the change and a knowledge of the screen size, the first finger point and the resultant two finger average it should be possible to determine point number two as well as the changing delta between the 2 points which will give you pince or expand when you remove your fingers and you get a finger up event... note it is true you will not be able to distinguish more than two fingers but I'm betting this is enough for most uses.

they made it possible on the g1

It's difficult but can more than likely be done, would be a fair bit of maths to work it out though. Difference between resistive and capacative. But you can use a stylus or wear gloves with the touch HD so it's a trade off.

bobdude5 said:
they made it possible on the g1
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Click to collapse
The G1 uses a capacitive touchscreen similar to the iPhone's and the Android OS already had redundant coding for multi-touch capabilities, IIRC.
So all they effectively did was throw a switch.
For the likes of the Touch HD, everything will need to be coded from scratch.

limited multitouch IS possible on the HD - I took a video of it in fact BUT don't tell me it's not true multitouch - I know it isn't. In Windows if 2 points are touched at the same time Windows interprets it as a touch between the two points. If a developer maps a virtual key press between two 'buttons' then the virtual key will register as both keys. So no, there is no iPhone type multitouch but there are ways to mimic it. See these two postings and in the first one there's a video using an HD that shows what I am referring to:
http://www.fuzemobility.com/multitouch-exists-now-without-new-hardware-or-software/
http://www.fuzemobility.com/multitouch-in-action/

bugsykoosh said:
limited multitouch IS possible on the HD - I took a video of it in fact BUT don't tell me it's not true multitouch - I know it isn't.
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Click to collapse
Well not even the iPhone has 'true' multi-touch as it's limited to two fingers.
bugsykoosh said:
ideo of it in fact BUT don't tell me it's not true multitouch - I know it isn't. In Windows if 2 points are touched at the same time Windows interprets it as a touch between the two points.
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This bit's wrong though.
The limiting factor is not the OS, it's got nothing to do with Windows, it's because the handset uses a resistive screen.

? iphone 3gs compass like for wm 6.1 ?

can anyone make such app - or - anyone any clue were to get a compass for our win mobiles http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlKvW89Q7Z8

As a wm power user, you should know that a compass is hardware, not software

Fitz said:
As a wm power user, you should know that a compass is hardware, not software
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yea i thought about the gsensor aint that enough for te hardware part

Gsensors don't always point north...

well if u no of any compass's i can try via gps send me the site but would be beter if we got one like the assphone

Most higher end GPS units have "electronic" compasses. It is not just something that can be enabled through software, there needs to be a hardware component as well.
As a side note, my garmin vista Hcx has an electronic compass and it makes geocaching so nice

Like this?
http://forum.xda-developers.com/showthread.php?t=524294
Go to the link in the first post.

you may like this
http://htcdriver.com/index.php?page=richesse-GPS
and i also have such feature on my mapking GPS app

Any GPS app for windows mobile has a "Compass" by seeing which way you are moving and comparing that to north. A real compass can be stationary and point north more accurately. This is a hardware feature that no WM phones have. Maybe the Touch Pro 3 will have it.

Yeah, buy a real compass buddy. Its more accurately and never run out of battery and you never fear of losing GPS signal.
Oh, btw, I do have a real compass. and never use it.

Tomtom, GPS cycle, any navigation software would have a compass.
If that doesn't satisfy can always use the good old, sun rises in the east and sets in the west strategy. or go watch a few eps of Man vs Wild or survivor man and they'll show you how to find the direction.

rungvang said:
Oh, btw, I do have a real compass. and never use it.
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Click to collapse
Exactly my thoughts. Who needs yet ANOTHER gimmicky app that has no real purpose? In my time on this Earth I have never needed a compass or ever even thought '**** I wish I had a compass for X task'. So why would we need a digital one in our pockets ?

The sun sets in the west and rises in the east. There's your compass.

Don't you guys sleep facing the north? After the sun has set, how do you align your salt and pepper accurately? The hardware component is a magnetometer, pigeons have them, get a pigeon!

No sorry guys, a compass can be usefuill for a lot of Apps like navigation or Games, and the IPhone ist the most powerfull mobile divice ever build compared with a stabil and smooth operating system and a gigantic and cheap Appstore with 50.000 Apps.
And half of the Apps here are just wannabe iphone-Apps.
Thats fact, and sorry that i must tell you the truth : Windows Mobile is ulgy, slow and not state of the Art.
this is a littel preview to demonstrate you the Power of the "old" iPhone 3G (the brandnew 3Gs is getting much bette/faster and has a graphics chipset similar to xBox)
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=IWDDPAmZd5k
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=o3TeX4OCfLc

dickenz said:
Exactly my thoughts. Who needs yet ANOTHER gimmicky app that has no real purpose? In my time on this Earth I have never needed a compass or ever even thought '**** I wish I had a compass for X task'. So why would we need a digital one in our pockets ?
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I think lot's of people, of which you are probably one of them, don't have a clue to the purpose of the compass feature several new phones have. Apple clearly wouldn't emphasize on this feature if it were only useful to tell you where north and south are relatively to your location.
More and more apps are becoming available, which give you a view through the camera of your device, overlaying certain information, such as where the nearest ATM is, where you can find a particular shop, etc. (this technique is called Augmented Reality and it really doesn't work as good without a compass, as with a compass). There are a dozen apps available for Android at the moment using the build-in compass. That's where you need such a piece of hardware for.

Yes,
While going hunting I always take my compass, cell phone, gps, SUV, remington gun and a small atomic device...
You only need a compass if you are in the army. For night time LEARN the sky and if you get lost in the woods???during the day and need to go north??? for some reason than an application on a cellphone is the least of your problems

dickenz said:
Exactly my thoughts. Who needs yet ANOTHER gimmicky app that has no real purpose? In my time on this Earth I have never needed a compass or ever even thought '**** I wish I had a compass for X task'. So why would we need a digital one in our pockets ?
Click to expand...
Click to collapse
Obviously you weren't geocaching yet . In the forest it can be quite difficult to say where the sun is (especially if the weather isn't that good), so a "real" compass could be really helpful. There are also a lot of other things a "real" compass is good for.
As far as I know the HTC Magic (running Android) has got one, hasn't it?
And please stop this "Iphone vs. WM" talk, I think it was covered so many times in so many threads already ...
I don't understand these people claiming that their Iphone is so much better, but actually they are using a WM device and using forums for WM devices. That's quite strange, isn't it?. My suggestion: Get an Iphone and let us enjoy our WM devices please!